Yeah, pharaohs are supposed to be Sun Gods or was it Guard?
If it's going to be sizzling outside, they might as well be brownies.
But talk is cheap. Who knows what these two really ware. Might need to travel back in time.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
So by this posters logic we can safely say that all statues with Black features are Bantu Black Africans.
So this greek statue is of a Black person?
Posted by Goebbels (Member # 6729) on :
^ Could easily be. If a Bantu man screwed his white mother nice and hard and a baby boy popped out sometime after said event.
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
^Notice the Stupid Nazi Nigrocentric imitators can only think in binary terms of black/white when reality is in many shades. I dare you dimwits to define a race by skin color or any other phenotype in scientific terms only. BTW, you guys do a pathetic job at imitating Nigrocentrics because I have debated with real ones in person in Detroit(Home of SaraSutenSeti and many clonal clowns like him).
Look at this Autosomal DNA profile(Figure 3: Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis)and tell us who the modern Egyptians(and thus AE) most closely resemble. Shared colors between ethnic groups represent shared genetic ancestry. Egyptians are most similar to other North Africans, SW Eurasians and NOT at all to your ancestors - the Bantus, Mandenkas, Yorubans, Anglos or Germans, MORONS.
^ the holocaust was a myth.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
NonProphet - You start your post by lambasting no-scientific methods, and then have the nerve to say:
Look at this Autosomal DNA profile Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis, and tell us who the modern Egyptians(and thus AE) most closely resemble. Shared colors between ethnic groups represent shared genetic ancestry. Egyptians are most similar to other North Africans, SW Eurasians.
Modern Egyptians, North Africans, as well as SW Eurasians (Levant and Anatolia) all share the same admixture: Greek, Roman, Turk - so of course they would show genetic similarity. And you want to compare THESE people to Ancient Egyptians???
WhiteBoy ass-hole, just who the hell do you think your White-boy bullsh1t is suppose to be fooling?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: NonProphet - You start your post by lambasting no-scientific methods, and then have the nerve to say:
Look at this Autosomal DNA profile Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis, and tell us who the modern Egyptians(and thus AE) most closely resemble. Shared colors between ethnic groups represent shared genetic ancestry. Egyptians are most similar to other North Africans, SW Eurasians.
Modern Egyptians, North Africans, as well as SW Eurasians (Levant and Anatolia) all share the same admixture: Greek, Roman, Turk - so of course they would show genetic similarity. And you want to compare THESE people to Ancient Egyptians???
WhiteBoy ass-hole, just who the hell do you think your White-boy bullsh1t is suppose to be fooling?
Never mind, on reflection the answer is obvious. You are trying to fool the same people as the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.
They had the nerve to put a White face on a Black man, under the guise of telling history. So I guess that all White people must feel so empowered. But know this, if I could, they would be asked to account for that bit of bullsh1t racism, just like you.
Quote: "The statue originally was painted. The shape of the eyes and nose, badly damaged by ancient robbers, has been restored. The eyes were once inlaid in gold frames with rock crystal and would have shown in a lifelike way." Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: NonProphet - You start your post by lambasting no-scientific methods, and then have the nerve to say:
Look at this Autosomal DNA profile Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis, and tell us who the modern Egyptians(and thus AE) most closely resemble. Shared colors between ethnic groups represent shared genetic ancestry. Egyptians are most similar to other North Africans, SW Eurasians.
Modern Egyptians, North Africans, as well as SW Eurasians (Levant and Anatolia) all share the same admixture: Greek, Roman, Turk - so of course they would show genetic similarity. And you want to compare THESE people to Ancient Egyptians???
WhiteBoy ass-hole, just who the hell do you think your White-boy bullsh1t is suppose to be fooling?
Your Nazi punk. Anytime you want to roll and get embarrased physically and intellectually by one Dago Wop Jew at my MMA central Florida gym(just give me a date/time and I'll give you the address). We need more punching bags, oops, I mean sparring partners like you anyways pussy boy.
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: NonProphet - You start your post by lambasting no-scientific methods, and then have the nerve to say:
Look at this Autosomal DNA profile Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis, and tell us who the modern Egyptians(and thus AE) most closely resemble. Shared colors between ethnic groups represent shared genetic ancestry. Egyptians are most similar to other North Africans, SW Eurasians.
Modern Egyptians, North Africans, as well as SW Eurasians (Levant and Anatolia) all share the same admixture: Greek, Roman, Turk - so of course they would show genetic similarity. And you want to compare THESE people to Ancient Egyptians???
WhiteBoy ass-hole, just who the hell do you think your White-boy bullsh1t is suppose to be fooling?
Modern Egyptians are the closest living descendants of the AE, IDIOT. Name any other ethnic group outside Egypt who are closer to AE WITH a Genetic study to back up your bullshit, NAZI LOSER.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Failed at the intellectual battle, now you want to try the physical stuff??? Damn White-Boy, just because I'm smart enough to figure out your bullsh1t, doesn't mean that I'm not a Nigger at heart - wish I could get a piece of an ass-hole racist White boy like you.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Quote: Modern Egyptians are the closest living descendants of the AE, IDIOT. Name any other ethnic group outside Egypt who are closer to AE WITH a Genetic study to back up your bullshit, NAZI LOSER.
Translation: Find a WHITE study that says that.
Damn White-boy, we are way past THAT bullsh1t!
Here's one for you, Find a BLACK study that agrees with you.
Ha ha ha ha - You really need to that that simple-minded White-boy bullsh1t somewhere else.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
????? Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: NonProphet - You start your post by lambasting no-scientific methods, and then have the nerve to say:
Look at this Autosomal DNA profile Population structure inferred by ADMIXTURE analysis, and tell us who the modern Egyptians(and thus AE) most closely resemble. Shared colors between ethnic groups represent shared genetic ancestry. Egyptians are most similar to other North Africans, SW Eurasians.
Modern Egyptians, North Africans, as well as SW Eurasians (Levant and Anatolia) all share the same admixture: Greek, Roman, Turk - so of course they would show genetic similarity. And you want to compare THESE people to Ancient Egyptians???
WhiteBoy ass-hole, just who the hell do you think your White-boy bullsh1t is suppose to be fooling?
Modern Egyptians are the closest living descendants of the AE, IDIOT. Name any other ethnic group outside Egypt who are closer to AE WITH a Genetic study to back up your bullshit, NAZI LOSER.
Rather easy - the Haratins.
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
^ ...and the DNA study to back up your claims?
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
G. Paoli, the ABO typing of the ancient Egyptians
I would note that more modern versions of this type of study has not included the Haratins.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
Serological (blood) evidence of genetic linkages. Paoli 1972 for example found a significant resemblance between ABO frequencies of dynastic Egyptians and the black northern Haratin who are held to be the probable descendants of the original Saharans (Hiernaux, 1975).
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
^Blood group types are not the same as genetic evidence. Blood groups can be shared by various genetically unrelated groups. Try again.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
Osirion
I remember seeing this pick a few years ago on this forum........Sadly what I see now is a Statue that was defaced by people who are trying to keep the lies of a "Pure" Greece alive.
It's sad that we have come to this, Society is hurting and this will not heal anything.
Peace
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Derkyperky: Khafra:
Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too..
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING: I remember seeing this pick a few years ago on this forum........Sadly what I see now is a Statue that was defaced by people who are trying to keep the lies of a "Pure" Greece alive.
It's sad that we have come to this, Society is hurting and this will not heal anything.
Peace
KING stop being so mealy-mouthed. Go ahead and say the truth clearly and concisely;
"Sadly what I see now is a Statue that was defaced by by White people who are trying to keep the lies of a "Pure" Greece alive. And the Sand Niggers do the same with statues in Egypt, North Africa, and western Asia. And the Chinese simply Hide theirs."
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: ^Blood group types are not the same as genetic evidence. Blood groups can be shared by various genetically unrelated groups. Try again.
Wasn't just blod groups in the report. It also contained genetic studies. Read it.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by KING: I remember seeing this pick a few years ago on this forum........Sadly what I see now is a Statue that was defaced by people who are trying to keep the lies of a "Pure" Greece alive.
It's sad that we have come to this, Society is hurting and this will not heal anything.
Peace
KING stop being so mealy-mouthed. Go ahead and say the truth clearly and concisely;
"Sadly what I see now is a Statue that was defaced by by White people who are trying to keep the lies of a "Pure" Greece alive. And the Sand Niggers do the same with statues in Egypt, North Africa, and western Asia. And the Chinese simply Hide theirs."
Yes but the same can be said of those claiming a "Pure" Egypt.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: ^Blood group types are not the same as genetic evidence. Blood groups can be shared by various genetically unrelated groups. Try again.
I also think you have a basic problem - why would the Haratins have a closer match in blood groups than modern day Egyptians? Don't you find that to be an interesting puzzle? And we are talking about a people that live essentially in the SAME region. And lets not forget that you can say the same thing with genetics such as R1b being found in central Africa. However the report does discuss genetic markers but I think your best argument is that it is somewhat dated. Love to see an updated report.
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
Hemiunu profile and some relatives:
Hemiunu restored:
Authentic Hemiunu relief:
Khufu:
Huni: Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
Khafre's profile:
His profile does not fit that of a Caucasian. Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
"Heimunu Seated. Giza; Fourth Dynasty, later reign of Khufu (ca. 2540 B.C.E.). Limestone with remains of paint; H. 61 1/4 in. (155.5 cm). Roemer-und Pelizaeus-Museum, Hildesheim (1962).
Heimunu was one of the most important individuals of the Old Kingdom. A long list of his titles is inlaid in now-partially discolored pastes on the base of the statue. He names himself "King's son of his own body"—though he is perhaps Khufu's nephew rather than his son—and cites numerous priestly roles and high administrative offices, including "Overseer of every construction project of the kind," a title that today is often understood as an architect. In this capacity, Heimunu would have supervised the construction of Khufu's Great Pyramid as well as this truly remarkable portrait. The statue originally was painted(RED). The shape of the eyes and nose, badly damaged by ancient robbers, has been restored. The eyes were once inlaid in gold frames with rock crystal(Turquoise green/blue) and would have shown in a lifelike way. Realistic details abound: most remarkable is Heimunu's proud obesity."
You Bigots used to say ALL AE were Black/White, now you guys say the original and/or most were Black/White and eventually you'll come to the truth that only a small minority were in AE.
Egyptology Professor Bob Brier talks about you Bigots and AE -
In his TTC lecture, he says the Nubian language ''sounds'' African, to contrast it with the ancient Egyptian language. No linguist would say that, as AE itself is African as well, just like it's culture is.
He also seems to believe, without presenting evidence, that Ramses II is the Pharao of the biblical exodus. Oh no I forgot, he actually does present evidence, namely, that some of his sons died early, (Like the Pharao's firstborn did in Genesis) and that he took a more reserved public posture later in life, implying that it could have been the result of the devastating loss of Moses and his people leaving AE.
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^Bob Brier doesn't know what he is talking about
In his TTC lecture, he says the Nubian language ''sounds'' African, to contrast it with the ancient Egyptian language. No linguist would say that, as AE itself is African as well, just like it's culture is.
He also seems to believe, without presenting evidence, that Ramses II is the Pharao of the biblical exodus. Oh no I forgot, he actually does present evidence, namely, that some of his sons died early, (Like the Pharao's firstborn did in Genesis) and that he took a more reserved public posture later in life, implying that it could have been the result of the devastating loss of Moses and his people leaving AE.
Stick to B-ball because you don't even know that Sneferu is the father of Khufu and grandfather of Khafra.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
In my honest opinion:
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Khafre's profile:
The above pictures are not a profile view. A profile view is a side view and in a side yiew you can most clearly see the shape of a nose. In the above Khafra looks possibly Negroid. I'm not going to use the term black or brown because the statue is unpainted. All of you should be aware you have been caught in a trap. You all are discussing features here on an unpainted statue. So either the term "black" is a new word for Negroid which includes features or it is not. But it's too late for you to use the color only definition at this point. And you assume that features must mean something. Therefore you are talking about race. Ok I'll play this game. _________________________________________________
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
alTakruri was out to lunch with this comment talking about the below profile view. Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose. Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose. For instance it is unlike Ethiopian noses that hook down somewhat as similar to some Semites. In addition Ethiopians who this type of nose have an elongated type oval shaped head which narrows in the lower half of the head. Khafra does not have that elongated type of head. The scale of his nose is also medium large in proportion to his face unlike the unusual green shirt man picture that someone is likely to post. Green shirt man's nose is small in proportion to his head, it's not a match.
Khafra's jaw and mouth are somewhat prognostic. This is a Negroid feature. I have this. His bottom lip also extends widely in relation to his lower lip, another Negroid feature. (although there are exceptions).
Lioness conclusion: this statue of Khafra has both Negroid and Caucasoid features, therefore he is either intermediary between the two so called races or of mixed race. Sorry he's not racially pure.
_________________________________________________
Now we come to Siptah's authentic Hemiunu relief Hemiunu is believed to be the architect of the Great Pyramid of Giza,
Authentic Hemiunu relief
On first impression he looks very Caucasian, yall need to admit it. He has a medium large nose with very small nostrils. Some "blacks" have larger non-"flat" noses, but usually not with such small nostrils. Most Caucasians have this. His jaw is not prognostic. His lips are small. Based on what everybody is doing here, analyzing features, his features are most typically Caucasian. The relief is similar to the other restored statue but appears to be a younger rendition.
If you don't like these results than you should never discuss features on an unpainted statue.
the lioness has spoken
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ yes Hems profile are not typical features of Egyptian people.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
I just have a problem with the style of this statue. It doesn't look Egyptian at all.
I am not saying Egypt was pure anything but this is rather unusual in not just his features but in his obesity. I didn't think this type of realism came into Egyptian art until the New Kingdom. Why is he so fat with a double chin?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^Bob Brier doesn't know what he is talking about
In his TTC lecture, he says the Nubian language ''sounds'' African, to contrast it with the ancient Egyptian language. No linguist would say that, as AE itself is African as well, just like it's culture is.
He also seems to believe, without presenting evidence, that Ramses II is the Pharao of the biblical exodus. Oh no I forgot, he actually does present evidence, namely, that some of his sons died early, (Like the Pharao's firstborn did in Genesis) and that he took a more reserved public posture later in life, implying that it could have been the result of the devastating loss of Moses and his people leaving AE.
Stick to B-ball because you don't even know that Sneferu is the father of Khufu and grandfather of Khafra.
Interesting. So where in this thread was Sneferu mentioned for it to make sense that you suddenly take his name on your mouth?
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^Bob Brier doesn't know what he is talking about
In his TTC lecture, he says the Nubian language ''sounds'' African, to contrast it with the ancient Egyptian language. No linguist would say that, as AE itself is African as well, just like it's culture is.
He also seems to believe, without presenting evidence, that Ramses II is the Pharao of the biblical exodus. Oh no I forgot, he actually does present evidence, namely, that some of his sons died early, (Like the Pharao's firstborn did in Genesis) and that he took a more reserved public posture later in life, implying that it could have been the result of the devastating loss of Moses and his people leaving AE.
Stick to B-ball because you don't even know that Sneferu is the father of Khufu and grandfather of Khafra.
Interesting. So where in this thread was Sneferu mentioned for it to make sense that you suddenly take his name on your mouth?
LOL, I want to see this too?? Typical of the Mathilda troll...Where did you say anything about Snefru??
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I just have a problem with the style of this statue. It doesn't look Egyptian at all.
I am not saying Egypt was pure anything but this is rather unusual in not just his features but in his obesity. I didn't think this type of realism came into Egyptian art until the New Kingdom. Why is he so fat with a double chin?
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: Patuamenap
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: alTakruri was out to lunch with this comment talking about the below profile view. Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose. Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose.
It is unreasonable to request an entire tribe with such features, since you haven't produced a source that stated the ancient Egyptians had it in the first place
But to entertain myself, and see you worm out of this, here you go.
Now what?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: alTakruri was out to lunch with this comment talking about the below profile view. Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose. Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose.
It is unreasonable to request an entire tribe with such features, since you haven't produced a source that stated the ancient Egyptians had it in the first place
But to entertain myself, and see you worm out of this, here you go.
Now what?
Khafra's nose has a slight outer bend a little similar to some Native American noses. Kobe's has a litter inner bend. Khafra's nose is longer on a vertical up an down proportion to his head than Kobe's is. Khafra's comes out further horizontally than Kobe's.
Kobe's lips looks similar to Khafra's. Kobe's forehead recedes in a typical SSA way. There are some similarities. Obviously Khafra's nose is not a flat type nose and it's not hugely different than Kobe's. Khafra's cheekbones are higher. What is AA Kobe's mother's ancestry I don't know. not a bad try. See if you can find a native African.
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: Khafra's nose has a slight outer bend a little similar to some Native American noses. Kobe's has a litter inner bend. Khafra's nose is longer on a vertical up an down proportion to his head than Kobe's is. Khafra's comes out further horizontally than Kobe's.
The thing that cracks me up, is the fact that the differences you mention here, are WAY smaller than the differences that are observed between two different busts that portray the same pharao. With that in mind, what makes you think that those microscopic nasal discrepancies between Kobe and Kafra are significant enough to justify your babling when two random artworks of Khafra himself may differ even more in nose shape than noses on the two pictures?
The dent you mention on Kobe's nose at the base of the tip of his nose doesn't even have a cranial basis, and its fleshy. The bony part of the nose that is attached to the skull is more likely than not similar to Kobe's, assuming Khafra really looked like that.
Your whining is just a distraction from the fact that you were wrong with your original assertion, that these nose shapes are foreign among black people.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: Khafra's nose has a slight outer bend a little similar to some Native American noses. Kobe's has a litter inner bend. Khafra's nose is longer on a vertical up an down proportion to his head than Kobe's is. Khafra's comes out further horizontally than Kobe's.
The thing that cracks me up, is the fact that the differences you mention here, are WAY smaller than the differences that are observed between two different busts that portray the same pharao. With that in mind, what makes you think that those microscopic nasal discrepancies between Kobe and Kafra are significant enough to justify your babling when two random artworks of Khafra himself may differ even more in nose shape than noses on the two pictures?
The dent you mention on Kobe's nose at the base of the tip of his nose doesn't even have a cranial basis, and its fleshy. The bony part of the nose that is attached to the skull is more likely than not similar to Kobe's, assuming Khafra really looked like that.
Your whining is just a distraction from the fact that you were wrong with your original assertion, that these nose shapes are foreign among black people.
LOL...LOOOOOOOOL...
Just Call Hell Lyin-Ass in the Morning!!!
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
^ Notice how punk-Puppet stays clear of this thread.. LOL
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too..
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: alTakruri was out to lunch with this comment talking about the below profile view. Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose. Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose.
It is unreasonable to request an entire tribe with such features, since you haven't produced a source that stated the ancient Egyptians had it in the first place
But to entertain myself, and see you worm out of this, here you go.
Now what?
Kobe is more prognathist, has heavier brow ridges, fuller lips, more massive jawline(and thus teeth), wider flared nostrils, greater sloping forehead and smaller fixed lobed ears. Wish he was available to do a DNA test and crainal metrics to further show how disimilar he is to the AE.
You also wierdly claimed Jep was Khafra's and/or Khufu's father. Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^ Notice how punk-Puppet stays clear of this thread.. LOL
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too..
LOL..Hey Kalonji the Mathilda Troll Still thinks you Called the Above Images Snefru..LMAO
Notice hot she tries to squirm away from Kobe matching Khafre's profile..LOL.Amazing even Lionass did'nt go that far..
Seems our friend Gigantic took cover from the beatdown on the Eva Longoria thread..
Too bad I was having fun with the Forum Pinata..lol
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: [QUOTE]
You also wierdly claimed Jep was Khafra's and/or Khufu's father.
Non Prophet Wrote:
Stick to B-ball because you don't even know that Sneferu is the father of Khufu and grandfather of Khafra.
Post Where Kalonji Says this is Snefru..
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: Khafra's nose has a slight outer bend a little similar to some Native American noses. Kobe's has a litter inner bend. Khafra's nose is longer on a vertical up an down proportion to his head than Kobe's is. Khafra's comes out further horizontally than Kobe's.
The thing that cracks me up, is the fact that the differences you mention here, are WAY smaller than the differences that are observed between two different busts that portray the same pharao. With that in mind, what makes you think that those microscopic nasal discrepancies between Kobe and Kafra are significant enough to justify your babling when two random artworks of Khafra himself may differ even more in nose shape than noses on the two pictures?
The dent you mention on Kobe's nose at the base of the tip of his nose doesn't even have a cranial basis, and its fleshy. The bony part of the nose that is attached to the skull is more likely than not similar to Kobe's, assuming Khafra really looked like that.
Your whining is just a distraction from the fact that you were wrong with your original assertion, that these nose shapes are foreign among black people.
The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline. It has a slight bend in it. Kobe's does not. But never mind Kobe Bryant the American, racially Khafra could go either way.
The Patuamenap head and the Hemiunu relief however are more Eurasian looking. Or in the case of Patuamenap oddly looking Central American. I can't explain it but somebody else said that and it fits visually.
Does this mean because of this they necessarily had ancestry from Eurasia?
I say it's possible since Eurasia is next door to Egypt. It's unknown but possible. That's my general position.
Others feel it's impossible for some reason.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: Khafra's nose has a slight outer bend a little similar to some Native American noses. Kobe's has a litter inner bend. Khafra's nose is longer on a vertical up an down proportion to his head than Kobe's is. Khafra's comes out further horizontally than Kobe's.
The thing that cracks me up, is the fact that the differences you mention here, are WAY smaller than the differences that are observed between two different busts that portray the same pharao. With that in mind, what makes you think that those microscopic nasal discrepancies between Kobe and Kafra are significant enough to justify your babling when two random artworks of Khafra himself may differ even more in nose shape than noses on the two pictures?
The dent you mention on Kobe's nose at the base of the tip of his nose doesn't even have a cranial basis, and its fleshy. The bony part of the nose that is attached to the skull is more likely than not similar to Kobe's, assuming Khafra really looked like that.
Your whining is just a distraction from the fact that you were wrong with your original assertion, that these nose shapes are foreign among black people.
The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline. It has a slight bend in it. Kobe's does not. But never mind Kobe Bryant the American, racially Khafra could go either way.
The Patuamenap head and the Hemiunu relief however are more Eurasian looking. Or in the case of Patuamenap oddly looking Central American. I can't explain it but somebody else said that and it fits visually.
Does this mean because of this they necessarily had ancestry from Eurasia?
I say it's possible since Eurasia is next door to Egypt. It's unknown but possible. That's my general position.
Others feel it's impossible for some reason.
Just a quick question..
Egypt in your opinion was Mulatto..so then Mesopotamia and other Middle East Empires OBVIOUSLY had Black Africans right..according to Lioness Anthropology..
Proximity of Yemen(Arabia) to Sudan and Eritrea fits your "Next Door Radius Circle" Model in Lioness antropology..So we can say Dana and Alwaad Berry are Right about Arabs being orignally black right..
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
@Lioness Each of Khafre's sculptures somewhat differ in terms of physiognomy so instead of seeking the exact match you should seek resemblances.
In my opinion, I don't really see how Khafre's nose can be perceived as Non-African. From the sculptures i've seen they do not display a bent nose.
His profile fits that of many black men:
Khafre;
His nose is not exclusive to non black men. If you look within the variation of black peoples you could find it.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Its amazing you people are still arguing over Nose Shapes..LMAO
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: You also wierdly claimed Jep was Khafra's and/or Khufu's father.
Where?
quote: Originally posted by Lioness: The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline.
Do you even know what aquiline means? LOL. Khafra's nose is straight in profile, it is Khufu's nose that is aquiline on that sculpture I posted.
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: For instance it is unlike Ethiopian noses that hook down somewhat as similar to some Semites.
The ''Ethiopian nose''? LOL. You are so dumb, it's baffling. Ethiopians display many nose types. First you say Khafra's nose is unlike hook nosed Ethiopians, but then when I follow up on your request for a picture, you do a 360 and go on to state that Khafra's nose is ''aquilline''. Do you even realise a hook nose IS aquiline. The two terms are synonyms.
Ethiopian with aquiline profile:
Africans with a straight nasal profile:
West African musician:
Diasporal Afican:
Ethiopian man:
Ethiopian man:
Ethiopian man:
Ethiopian man:
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline. It has a slight bend in it. Kobe's does not. But never mind Kobe Bryant the American, racially Khafra could go either way.
Why do you start retreating from your original request:
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose. Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose..
first you ask for African examples of such nose types, and now when provided, you retreat to whether or not Khafra was African. Racially, any phenotype can go either way. You can ask that question about anyone whose origins are not stated, including ''Broad featured'' types like Mugabe and Narmer. Their phenotype exists in Asia as well, so whats your point?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
It is all in the angle of the shot. Someine said it on this forum. . .the media play these mind games with the angle of the pic.
Below he is fits undoubtedly within the stereotypical broad-face West African phenotype.
From the side. . there are doubts. No wonder they always use the shot from the side. tsk! tsk!
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Khafre's profile:
Even this brother fits the phenotype of West Africans I see here in West Philly. How? The cheek bone is a dead giveaway.
And the shape of the head.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline. It has a slight bend in it. Kobe's does not. But never mind Kobe Bryant the American, racially Khafra could go either way.
Why do you start retreating from your original request:
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose. Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose..
first you ask for African examples of such nose types, and now when provided, you retreat to whether or not Khafra was African. Racially, any phenotype can go either way. You can ask that question about anyone whose origins are not stated, including ''Broad featured'' types like Mugabe and Narmer. Their phenotype exists in Asia as well, so whats your point?
I RETRACT THE STATEMENT THAT I THINK KHAFRA'S NOSE DOES NOT LOOK AFRICAN alert the media, lioness proven wrong
the fact is that his type of nose could be the nose of an African or someone not African. Khafra, I don't know what he is. He doesn't remind me of typical groups in Africa. I ask does anybody honestly think he does? I can't place him. He reminds me of mixed people I have seen. Sometimes these proportions are really subtle. For example you have a given shape of a feature but it's not only that it's the relative size of that feature to the rest of the head and face also. Then it's also skull shape and one feature in combination with another feature.
In the end you can't seem to make firm conclusions about facial features although Explorer and Clyde said there were noses that are not African. So do the terms "black" and "white" really mean anything?
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:In my opinion his nose is not an African nose.
quote:the fact is that his type of nose could be the nose of an African ...
Cant even make up her mind about her own opinions...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: It is all in the angle of the shot. Someine said it on this forum. . .the media play these mind games with the angle of the pic.
Below he is fits undoubtedly within the stereotypical broad-face West African phenotype.
From the side. . there are doubts. No wonder they always use the shot from the side. tsk! tsk! [QUOTE]Originally posted by Siptah: Khafre's profile:
well who's to say which angle we will go by? If you want to look at nose shape it's the side view profile that is most clear. It is amazing how different this sculpture looks form the different angles.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Even this brother fits the phenotype of West Africans I see here in West Philly. How? The cheek bone is a dead giveaway.
And the shape of the head.
now it's cheekbones which indicate race?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by lioness: I RETRACT THE STATEMENT THAT I THINK KHAFRA'S NOSE DOES NOT LOOK AFRICAN alert the media, lioness proven wrong
Good girl.
quote: Originally posted by lioness: the fact is that his type of nose could be the nose of an African or someone not African.
^Like I said, that goes for ANY isolated feature, including any ''west African'' feature:
Originally posted by Kalonji You can ask that question about anyone whose origins are not stated, including ''Broad featured'' types like Mugabe and Narmer. Their phenotype exists in Asia as well, so whats your point?
No population has a monopoly on a given isolated feature, you need to school yourself and eradicate your assumptions. Do you know what ''eradicate'' means?
erad·i·cat·ederad·i·cat·ing Definition of ERADICATE 1: to pull up by the roots 2: to do away with as completely as if by pulling up by the roots
Your ignorant, deeply rooted assumptions are the culprit of you making a fool out of yourself time after time again.
quote: Originally posted by lioness: Khafra, I don't know what he is.
He is an Egyptian, you idiot. There is no reason to assume that he wasn't. Normal people don't engage in you doubting or challenging something when there is no new piece of evidence that can negate what is already known. You keep posting images as if they have any bearing on:
Do you see ''Masai'' on the map? In terms of cranifacial resemblance, these people with predominant African lineages diverge away from the set of features that are more exclusive to Africa, even more so than the Ancient Egyptians. What does that tell you?
Do you actually think an isolated feature like the straight nose on Khafra's statue baffles anyone?
LOLOLOLOL
Look at that map, and how African tribes/populations are spread over it, and then look at Lioness's silly statements that imply that Africa is one big homogenous populaton:
Mentally imbalanced statements made by the Lioness:
The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline.
Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose.
Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose..
The highlighted parts above and others you have made previously show that you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about, and that your reasoning is based on deeply flawed assumptions. You actually implied that Africa, which harbours a population of approximately a billion people can not produce an nose type similar to the one on Khafra's statue.
Do you have any idea how dumb that is?
SMFH
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Kalonji you think telling me Khafra was an Egyptian is some kind of exposure. Kobe Bryant is an American what does that prove. How far back do you know where Khafra's ancestry goes back to? There were also places that Egyptians came from before Egypt.
You use non-sequiter methodology and unnecessary insult. Your methodology is this: A person lived in Egypt Egypt is in Africa therefore their ancestry is African
If people lived in Egypt they may have ancestors from thousands of years in Egypt. Or they may have come from nearby areas. There is no Khafra mummy for DNA analysis.
In thousands of years when they dig up the remains of Kobe Bryant and somebody says he looks African are you going to say "no way he's American"?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: You use non-sequiter methodology and unnecessary insult.
Peoples patience with your never ending assumtive reasoning is running out. I know mine is. This isn't the first time someone has explained to you that Africans vary within their ethnic groups and inter ethnic groups, that is, Ethnic groups in Africa that vary on a group per group basis. You just keep arguing off of art, and pitting what you see as ''non African'' against just one of the many available African groups, which is obviously ''West African'' in your case. You have done this since you registered, and you have made no progress, beside your occasional retreating to being ''neutral'' (John says) when you're confronted with the facts.
You should think about what you want, do you want people to take you serious? Then start acting like it. There is a huge momentum from western scholarship that is slowly but surely putting Africa back in... Africa!! The only way one can disagree, is by ignoring evidence. And that is what you are doing.
quote: Originally posted by the Lioness: Your methodology is this: A person lived in Egypt Egypt is in Africa therefore their ancestry is African
Yes, and the last time I checked that was called Ockhams razor: accepting the simplest explanation until a better one is provided. You based your doubt of Khafra's origins on the facial features of his portrayals that you can't place among Africans. Now that I have shown your inablity to do so is based on your poor understanding of what Africans can display, you again, make it into something else.
Let me ask you something Do you place questions signs whenever you see a Roman or Greek bust? Do you wonder about all the Turkish or Syrian places the person could've come from? Do you wonder about his possible African ancestry? There are good reasons to do so, and unlike your hobby, this isn't based on art, but on the fact that substantial E and J clades made their way into med Europe by way of demic deffusion. Can you show the same thing in the case of ancient Egypt ie, substantial Eurasian linages in Khafra or/or ancient Egypt?
Your view is distorted, and you meassure with different rulers when you look at Africa vs Europe and Asia. Therefore, you make it seem like Egypt is unique when it comes to potential admixture, when they're not. Don't make me get into the massive invasions by all sorts of peoples into Mesapotamia. Don't make me get into the fact that the greeks emigrated from Asia, and that there were pre existing natives present, that assimulated more or less. Because these groups belong to Eurasia, they can't be admixed when they assimilate? Don't make me laugh. 50%+ non-European male lineages in modern Greece, and some Balkan states. Predominant Indo european langues that aren't even native to Europe. Go figure.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
This coming from applying physical anthropology thusly.
The lesson for today is sellion, orbitale superious,and nasal root.
In either profile of the statue one chooses the nose is flat.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
alTakruri was out to lunch with this comment talking about the below profile view. Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth.
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
This coming from a ESR mod?? LOL
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Kalonji your logic is off. You posted Kobe Bryant and that football player and others. Are you following Ockhams razor? Is Kobe an Egyptian? If you were following the simplest path it would be to use examples of people who had similarity to AE's it would be people whose ancestry is from places closet to Egypt.
For example Sudan, Jordan, Israel, Libya, Arabia and Chad are all close to Egypt.
Mali and Angola are not.
Follow the razor
Greeks and Roman's? Yes some look like they might have Turkish or Syrian or African ancestry
The terms "Africa" and "Asia" are arbitrary later continental terms the landmass is connected and can be crossed on foot.
Very dark skinned people as a majority in Arabia which is in Asia at some point? It's possible. But was it before or after Muhammad? I have addressed some of the issues you raised. Please go to my thread in Egyptology called William J. Anderson's what does "black" mean list and comment
You use this term "black". I think the definitions listed there cover enough variations that someone can attribute one.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:I don't go around like a little puppy in other threads begging people to respond,
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Please go to my thread in Egyptology called William J. Anderson's what does "black" mean list and comment
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
In either profile of the statue one chooses the nose is flat.
The nose is not flat in either profile of the statue one chooses.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:I don't go around like a little puppy in other threads begging people to respond,
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Please go to my thread in Egyptology called William J. Anderson's what does "black" mean list and comment
begging is when you ask more than once dipshyt, and you're up to 11
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: begging is when you ask more than once dipshyt
hehehe
You sound upset, why so sensitive? I bet I know:
click me!
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
As in other matters you are totally ignorant of physical anthropology and even after being given the points used to ascertain a flat nose continue to spout your self-serving and unlearned opinion.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
In either profile of the statue one chooses the nose is flat.
The nose is not flat in either profile of the statue one chooses.
Posted by Goebbels (Member # 6729) on :
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Orginally posted by Lioness: You posted Kobe Bryant and that football player and others. Are you following Ockhams razor? Is Kobe an Egyptian?
^Strawman
quote: Orginally posted by Lioness: If you were following the simplest path it would be to use examples of people who had similarity to AE's it would be people whose ancestry is from places closet to Egypt. For example Sudan, Jordan, Israel, Libya, Arabia and Chad are all close to Egypt.
Wrong Proximity in and of itself doesn't imply ancestry. Nubians and blacks from the western and eastern deserts are not ideal candidates for relatives of AE because of proximity, but because of indistinguishable cranifacial resemblance and other lines of evidence.
quote: Orginally posted by Lioness: Mali and Angola are not. Follow the razor
Look who's talking. You're not using it at all. But you're free to think you do. Just don't be surprised when people get tired with you.
quote: Orginally posted by Lioness: Greeks and Roman's? Yes some look like they might have Turkish or Syrian or African ancestry
You still don't get it do you?
Originally posted by Kalonji: and unlike your hobby, this isn't based on art, but on the fact that substantial E and J clades made their way into med Europe by way of demic deffusion. Can you show the same thing in the case of ancient Egypt ie, substantial Eurasian linages in Khafra or/or ancient Egypt?
It's not necessarily based on that they ''look'' like they have foreign ancestry, because you can't always see it, like for example in the case of the racist James Watson and more recently, Hitler.
In other cases someone may look like he is mixed when it is not the case, but the person just **looks** like he has different ancestry.
Like it has been speculated in the case of the Tutsi and subsequently discredited with Y chromosomal DNA analysis.
Posted by Goebbels (Member # 6729) on :
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Kalonji, you were doing o.k. until you started pulling out the one in a million cases
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^Bob Brier doesn't know what he is talking about In his TTC lecture, he says the Nubian language ''sounds'' African, to contrast it with the ancient Egyptian language. No linguist would say that, as AE itself is African as well, just like it's culture is.
AE is most closely related to Coptic, Proto-Semitic and Proto-Berber families and all modern day AA speakers sound like their coughing up mucous. This similarity is why Arabic was so easily adopted by the Egyptians as the state language. Nobiin in the Nilo-Saharan family is phonetically unrelated to Afrasian. Linguists haven't identified the Afrasian or protoAA origin so where exactly in Africa is your source and define African culture?
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ...But to entertain myself, and see you worm out of this, here you go.
Now what?
Kobe is more prognathist, has heavier brow ridges, fuller lips, more massive jawline(and thus teeth), wider flared nostrils, deep set eyes, bulbous head, greater sloping forehead and smaller fixed lobed ears. Wish he was available to do a DNA test and crainial metrics to further show how dissimilar he is to the AE.
You also weirdly claimed Jep was Khafra's and/or Khufu's father. [/QUOTE]
Photoshopped image Originally posted by Kalonji:
Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too..
His name is Khufu not Jep -
The source of your fake image is an Egocentric site -
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: This coming from applying physical anthropology thusly.
The lesson for today is sellion, orbitale superious,and nasal root.
In either profile of the statue one chooses the nose is flat.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
alTakruri was out to lunch with this comment talking about the below profile view. Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth.
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Khafra: has a flat nose
This coming from a ESR mod?? LOL
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too.. His name is Khufu not Jep -
yep interjection (2)adjective: 1. Affirmative, yes, to convey agreeance.
I was being sarcastic, or do you want me to provide the definition of sarcastic as well?
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: The source of your fake image is an Egocentric site
Is it?
This piece is now on display in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. [/b]In more recent years, two other likenesses have been tentatively identified as being that of Khufu, based largely on stylistic similarities to the piece discovered by Petrie.[/b] One is a colossal head made of red granite of a king wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt that resides in the Brooklyn Museum, and the other, a fragmentary miniature head made of limestone that also wears the white crown of Upper Egypt, which can be found in the Staatliche Sammlung für Ägyptische Kunst in Munich.
LIMESTONE:
4th DYNASTY KING THAT RESEMBLES THE IVORY SCULPTURE:
^Are the writers of that site ''Ego centric'' as well?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Kalonji, you were doing o.k. until you started pulling out the one in a million cases
Is this the below a ''one in a million'' case as well?
According to our own anthropological examination (data not shown), the non-sub-Saharan haplogroups are not carried by “West Eurasian-like” individuals, as might be anticipated, but were rather detected in common “Fulani type” peoples. -mtDNA of Fulani Nomads and Their Genetic Relationships to Neighboring Sedentary Populations
quote: Originally posted by Kalonji: and unlike your hobby, this isn't based on art, but on the fact that substantial E and J clades made their way into med Europe by way of demic deffusion. Can you show the same thing in the case of ancient Egypt ie, substantial Eurasian linages in Khafra or/or ancient Egypt?
quote: Originally posted by Kalonji: It's not necessarily based on that they ''look'' like they have foreign ancestry, because you can't always see it, like for example in the case of the racist James Watson and more recently, Hitler.
You need to cut it out, bub..
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: ^Bob Brier doesn't know what he is talking about In his TTC lecture, he says the Nubian language ''sounds'' African, to contrast it with the ancient Egyptian language. No linguist would say that, as AE itself is African as well, just like it's culture is.
AE is most closely related to Coptic, Proto-Semitic and Proto-Berber families and all modern day AA speakers sound like their coughing up mucous. This similarity is why Arabic was so easily adopted by the Egyptians as the state language. Nobiin in the Nilo-Saharan family is phonetically unrelated to Afrasian. Linguists haven't identified the Afrasian or protoAA origin so where exactly in Africa is your source and define African culture?
Where (in what continent) do most scholars place the origin of proto-Afrasan?
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: where exactly in Africa is your source and define African culture?
"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )
... there are many aspects of political and ceremonial life in the Predynastic and Old Kingdom that reflects a strong impact from Saharan cattle pastoralists... -Wendorf and Schild
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too.. His name is Khufu not Jep -
yep interjection (2)adjective: 1. Affirmative, yes, to convey agreeance.
I was being sarcastic, or do you want me to provide the definition of sarcastic as well?
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: The source of your fake image is an Egocentric site
Is it?
This piece is now on display in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. [/b]In more recent years, two other likenesses have been tentatively identified as being that of Khufu, based largely on stylistic similarities to the piece discovered by Petrie.[/b] One is a colossal head made of red granite of a king wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt that resides in the Brooklyn Museum, and the other, a fragmentary miniature head made of limestone that also wears the white crown of Upper Egypt, which can be found in the Staatliche Sammlung für Ägyptische Kunst in Munich.
LIMESTONE:
4th DYNASTY KING THAT RESEMBLES THE IVORY SCULPTURE:
^Are the writers of that site ''Ego centric'' as well?
Where do most scholars place the origin of proto-Afrasan?
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: where exactly in Africa is your source and define African culture?
"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )
... there are many aspects of political and ceremonial life in the Predynastic and Old Kingdom that reflects a strong impact from Saharan cattle pastoralists... -Wendorf and Schild
All speculation and no evidence.
The original seated Khufu statue is in the Cairo Museum. What is the Museum or University reference for the unidentified white crown bust?
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too.. His name is Khufu not Jep -
yep interjection (2)adjective: 1. Affirmative, yes, to convey agreeance.
I was being sarcastic, or do you want me to provide the definition of sarcastic as well?
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: The source of your fake image is an Egocentric site
Is it?
This piece is now on display in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. [/b]In more recent years, two other likenesses have been tentatively identified as being that of Khufu, based largely on stylistic similarities to the piece discovered by Petrie.[/b] One is a colossal head made of red granite of a king wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt that resides in the Brooklyn Museum, and the other, a fragmentary miniature head made of limestone that also wears the white crown of Upper Egypt, which can be found in the Staatliche Sammlung für Ägyptische Kunst in Munich.
LIMESTONE:
4th DYNASTY KING THAT RESEMBLES THE IVORY SCULPTURE:
^Are the writers of that site ''Ego centric'' as well?
Nice!! Kalonji typical of Non Prophet to assume things..
Bust of Khufu..
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: [QUOTE] The original seated Khufu statue is in the Cairo Museum. What is the Museum or University reference for the unidentified white crown bust?
Der Kopf einer Cheops-Miniatur aus dem Staatlichen Museum Ägyptischer Kunst in München. The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich. Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: The original seated Khufu statue is in the Cairo Museum. What is the Museum or University reference for the unidentified white crown bust?
Learn to read:
One is a colossal head made of red granite of a king wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt that resides in the Brooklyn Museum, and the other, a fragmentary miniature head made of limestone that also wears the white crown of Upper Egypt, which can be found in the Staatliche Sammlung für Ägyptische Kunst in Munich.
^ The first sculpture that is mentioned by the quote above is most likely the one that is also attributed to Huni, as it is uninscripted, made of red granite, situated in Brooklyn museum, and it wears a white crown
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: All speculation and no evidence
What requirements would be needed to qualify something as credible?
Why are the quotes I mentioned, regarding the indigenous nature of AE culture any different from the quotes you have posted earlier ie, what is missing?
What is the alternative scenario for their culture, if not indigenous and African?
What are examples of non African hallmark cultural objects/practices in ancient Egyptian culture?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: [QUOTE] The original seated Khufu statue is in the Cairo Museum. What is the Museum or University reference for the unidentified white crown bust?
Der Kopf einer Cheops-Miniatur aus dem Staatlichen Museum Ägyptischer Kunst in München. The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
LOL How did you find the article? I searched my ass off to find it LOL
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
Photoshopped image Originally posted by Kalonji:
The source of your fake image is an Egocentric site -
LMAO @ his idiotic claims, and his Caucasian Khafra, look at his father!
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: [QUOTE] The original seated Khufu statue is in the Cairo Museum. What is the Museum or University reference for the unidentified white crown bust?
Der Kopf einer Cheops-Miniatur aus dem Staatlichen Museum Ägyptischer Kunst in München. The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
LOL How did you find the article? I searched my ass off to find it LOL
Jari LIAR & Associates posts a website - National Alternative Archaeology and interdisciplinary in focus by Mysteria3000.de AHAHAHAHAAHA, WACKO SITE THAT BELIEVES ALIENS BUILT THE PYRAMIDS AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Most likenesses of Khufu are lost to history. Only one miniature statuette has been fully attributed to this pharaoh. Since he is credited with building the single largest building of ancient times, it is ironic that the only positively identified royal sculpture of his is also the smallest that has ever been found: a 7.6cm (3 inch) ivory statue that bears his name. It was discovered not at Giza, but in a temple in Abydos during an excavation by William Matthew Flinders Petrie in 1903. Originally this piece was found without the head, but bearing the pharaoh's name. Realizing the importance of this discovery, Petrie halted all further excavation on the site until the head was found three weeks later after an intensive sieving of the sand from the area where the base had been discovered. This piece is now on display in the Egyptian Museum, Cairo. In more recent years two other likenesses have been tentatively identified as being that of Khufu, based largely on stylistic similarities to the piece discovered by Petrie. One is a colossal head made of red granite of a king wearing the white crown of Upper Egypt that resides in the Brooklyn Museum, and the other a fragmentary miniature head made of limestone that also wears the white crown of Upper Egypt, which can be found in the Staatliche Sammlung für Ägyptische Kunst in Munich.
Multiple websites mention that there are other 4th dynasty busts attributed to Khufu, both wear white crowns, one is made of red granite, and the other is made of limestone. The former is situated in the Brooklyn museam, the other is situated in the Munich state museum according to these sources.
Of course you're not going to find their entire art collection online, if they did that, they wouldn't need a museum.
You can keep Ad hominemming your way out of it by rediculing the unrelated content of these websites, but the fact remains they all say the same thing: there are more statues attributed to Khufu, for good reasons, and one lies in Munich state museum.
Furthermore, it should be noted that the phenotype portrayed on the Khufu bust, as opposed to the phenotypes that are more compatible with the likes of king Tut, are by no means rare in ancient Egypt:
"Analyses of Egyptian crania are numerous. Vercoutter (1978) notes that ancient Egyptian crania have frequently all been lumped (implicitly or explicitly) as Mediterranean, although Negroid remains are recorded in substantial numbers by many workers...
Let the ad hominems toward Vercoutter begin!
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
The Mysteria nutbags also label Huni as Khufu or Cheops. LOL
"Conversely, they conclude, the Pharaoh(Khufu) was not attributable to the construction of this wonder of the world. Alternatively, why sunken civilizations or aliens, etc. consulted."
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: The Mysteria nutbags also label Huni as Khufu or Cheops. LOL
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH
The red granite head that lies in the Brooklyn museum is not positively identified as Huni, and many other knowledgable people think it might be a portrayal of Khufu.
There's the big head of a king in white crown (granite, Brooklyn Mus.) possibly representing Huni or Khufu and the so called "Chicago scribe"(granite) the older example of this particular posture.
A much larger granite head has also been found that some believe may be part of a statue of Khufu. The dates are right (end of Dynasty III, beginning of Dynasty IV) and the narrow eyes, broad nose and mouth seem to resemble the tiny ivory statue known to be Khufu. However, there are no identifying marks on the head to confirm the identification. It may belong to Huni the last king of Dynasty III.
JUST ANOTHER MISTAKE OF SOMEONE WHO CAN'T STAND AFRICAN FEATURES ON ANCIENT EGYPTIANS ART. Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by Derkyperky: Khafra:
Jep, his father was a real ''Caucasian'' too..
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
^^^ Sure Liars everything in Egyptology is a conspiracy to you people. All the noses were broken off by white devils too.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
^ hehehe
you have no comeback do you?
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote: Originally posted by Non-Prophet: Sure Liars everything in Egyptology is a conspiracy to you people. All the noses were broken off by white devils too.
^Yeah yeah
You are wrong, and you're not man enough to admit it, but you don't have to, it's pretty obvious.
Now that you have wormed yourself out of the Khufu loss by ad hominemming, you may answer these questions.
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: All speculation and no evidence
What requirements would be needed to qualify something as credible?
Why are the quotes I mentioned, regarding the indigenous nature of AE culture any different from the quotes you have posted earlier ie, what is missing?
What is the alternative scenario for their culture, if not indigenous and African?
What are examples of non African hallmark cultural objects/practices in ancient Egyptian culture? Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: [QUOTE] The original seated Khufu statue is in the Cairo Museum. What is the Museum or University reference for the unidentified white crown bust?
Der Kopf einer Cheops-Miniatur aus dem Staatlichen Museum Ägyptischer Kunst in München. The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
The head of a miniature Cheops from the State Museum of Egyptian Art in Munich.
Sorry but this is an appeal to Authority Fallacy..
The Site's beliefs in no way conflict with the fact that the reference to the Bust is in the German Collection.
Also not that other busts are presented from other colloections around the world.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Of course you're not going to find their entire art collection online, if they did that, they wouldn't need a museum.
LOL, The guy lost when he claimed the bust was Photoshopped and Fake then when proved that an Egyptology site mentioned the Bust in the German Collection she resorted to "Show Me it In the Collection" as if we work there LOL. The same can be said with all artworks.
Also notice she demands evidence but has YET to provide one scholarly quote on a Green Eyed Spinx..
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Hemiunu profile and some relatives:
Authentic Hemiunu relief:
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
indeed. His nose may be flat.
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
Kalonji
Name the Egyptologists who claim this black pencil necked photoshopped "Jep" is the father of any AE King.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Notice the dark skin tone. Man these Euronuts are getting a beating. The INTERNET and technology has leveled the playing. The no longer have full control of hwta we say and hear.
There goes their lies and deception. Out the window.
Description Khafre was the son of Khufu, builder of the Great Pyramid. He built his own pyramid, the Second Pyramid, at Giza just to the south of his father's. Khafre's pyramid complex included a mortuary temple on the east side of the pyramid and a valley temple of monolithic granite blocks connected by a long causeway. To the northwest of the valley temple he constructed the Sphinx and its temple. Many magnificent statues of the king were recovered from the valley temple. This fragment was said to have been found at Giza and its similarity to the faces of the statues from the Khafre valley temple and the traces of a royal beard on the chin identify it as a portrait of Khafre. It displays—even at a small scale—the subtle and very sensitive modeling and finely finished surfaces of these masterpieces of Old Kingdom royal sculpture
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: Kalonji
Name the Egyptologists who claim this black pencil necked photoshopped "Jep" is the father of any AE King.
I am still waiting for you to explain why Haratins of North African have a closer ABO blood type to AE than modern day Egyptians? Shouldn't the blood types of Egyptians have stayed constant? The only reason for it not to have stayed constant would be due to genetic changes introduced by migratory events. Again, it would seem that Haratins are a better model for AE than modern Egyptians.
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: Kalonji
Name the Egyptologists who claim this black pencil necked photoshopped "Jep" is the father of any AE King.
I am still waiting for you to explain why Haratins of North African have a closer ABO blood type to AE than modern day Egyptians? Shouldn't the blood types of Egyptians have stayed constant? The only reason for it not to have stayed constant would be due to genetic changes introduced by migratory events. Again, it would seem that Haratins are a better model for AE than modern Egyptians.
When you can show the archeological evidence of the Haratin migration from Egypt to the NW of Africa and their genotypes to compare with modern and AE then we can talk. This is the second time I have to explain to you Blood types can be shared by unrelated people and are not equivalent to DNA evidence. What online peer-reviewed sources can we find modern DNA studies for the Haratins?
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ aren't you skirting around the issue. Why wouldn't modern day Egyptians have the same blood type as the ancient? Why would a neighboring group be closer? Don't you find this an interesting puzzle?
Simply - modern day Egyptians are close in blood type to the ancient Egyptians but not identical. The closest groups known are the Haratins and they did not need to leave Egypt but rather be absorbed by incoming invaders in NE Africa but not in Southern NW Africa.
Obviously you have a closed mind and don't even want to discuss it. Fine, you lose.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
Besides, according to a DNA study by G. Paoli, the ABO typing of the ancient Egyptians was most closely matched by the Harratins , a Negroid Berber people of southern Morocco, southern Algeria, and northern Mauritania. It has been claimed by some that the Haratins are the descendants of freed Sub-Saharan slaves. But this cannot be established, since the DNA patterns of the Haratins are not found in Sub-Saharans, nor are they found in any of the "white" Berber tribes Haratins are supposed to have been owned by and mixed with. The DNA pattern of the Haratins is very unique, thus establishing them firmly as a Hamitic race. Their presence has been long recorded in the region, and their origins, a mystery.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Of course you're not going to find their entire art collection online, if they did that, they wouldn't need a museum.
LOL, The guy lost when he claimed the bust was Photoshopped and Fake then when proved that an Egyptology site mentioned the Bust in the German Collection she resorted to "Show Me it In the Collection" as if we work there LOL. The same can be said with all artworks.
Also notice she demands evidence but has YET to provide one scholarly quote on a Green Eyed Spinx..
Exactly
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet: Kalonji
Name the Egyptologists who claim this black pencil necked photoshopped "Jep" is the father of any AE King.
Well, the figure that is portrayed wears a white crown doesn't he?
Last time I checked, that was pretty significant. It pains you to see that face, and even after me moving on to the other questions, you still can't let go.
Now that you can't maintain it doesn't exists outside of the photoshopping ''Ego centric'' website, you resort to find a way to discredit the portrayed figure from being a king.
Truthcentric was right. You really are a dishonest sheep f*****
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
This NON Prophet guy has been a dis appointment I thought that since he took the time and effort to make a vid. he was someone of substance with an opposing POV non the least but someone with meat we can't even chew the fat as there is nothing not even bones "sigh"... Folks I know it might seems boring but try and discuss culture, an Individual nose shape or long face vs short round face flat nose really means nothing, not untill you truly study these people that we so love to talk about soo much will we really get to know them some what.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Agreed. But sometimes we(at least I) learn something from these nonsensical threads. Notice he starts the thread then disappears. Wasn't it AOB who hinted it may the mods who start these thread to keep the flames burning.
This is is the first time I heard Khafra had a flat nose. Looking at the frontal-angle shot I can see why some would think so.
In that shot he looks like the stereotypical negro. Go figure. Guess Dirk did not count on those shots being shown.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
You can't tell if a nose is flat from the front.
The only way to tell how far the sellion projects away from orbitale is by the profile. A flat nose is in reference to the root of the nose sticking out.
Also the statue with the 3/4 profilet shot though Khafra isn't the same statue as the ones posted with the full profile shot.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: This is is the first times I heard Khafra had a flat nose. Looking at the frontal-angle shot I can see why some would think so.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
As always setting me straight.. . .most times. It is all good.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ its a silly discussion anyways. Flat nose or not he is not a Caucasian.
Have we forgotten what a Caucasian looks like or what?
This is a profile of a Caucasian man:
Which doesn't look anything like Kharfe:
Rather Kharfe looks like Anwar Sadat:
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: You can't tell if a nose is flat from the front. The only way to tell how far the sellion projects away from orbitale is by the profile. A flat nose is in reference to the root of the nose sticking out.
this is what I said before, you can only tell by the profile.
However what you are defining as flat nose is not how I ever heard anyone describe it before. You say a flat nose means the root of the nose sticks out. Do you have any source which describes a flat nose as the root of the nose sticking out?
One wonders what your term would be for a nose that is not flat. I would like to see you post a profile picture of such a nose. Educate us.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Original old photo. There is a "REASON" why the Sand-Niggers at the Cairo museum do not allow pictures anymore.
Posted by NonProphet (Member # 17745) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Of course you're not going to find their entire art collection online, if they did that, they wouldn't need a museum.
LOL, The guy lost when he claimed the bust was Photoshopped and Fake then when proved that an Egyptology site mentioned the Bust in the German Collection she resorted to "Show Me it In the Collection" as if we work there LOL. The same can be said with all artworks.
Also notice she demands evidence but has YET to provide one scholarly quote on a Green Eyed Spinx..
Exactly
What you Nazi White boys don't understand is I have been to that Munich Museum in person 4 times. You boys are not interested in knowledge only tag teaming little boy gang rants.
As for the Green Eyed / Red Sphinx watch this and read the Pyramid Texts translation for the 'Green Eyes of Horus'. The Great Sphinx's original name 'Hor-em-akhet' means the 'Horus in the Horizon'. The AE Kings were literally Horus on Earth that reunited with Osiris in the Underworld at death.
Now I heard it all. Green eye black Africans. What's next? Aliens and flying saucers.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by NonProphet:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Of course you're not going to find their entire art collection online, if they did that, they wouldn't need a museum.
LOL, The guy lost when he claimed the bust was Photoshopped and Fake then when proved that an Egyptology site mentioned the Bust in the German Collection she resorted to "Show Me it In the Collection" as if we work there LOL. The same can be said with all artworks.
Also notice she demands evidence but has YET to provide one scholarly quote on a Green Eyed Spinx..
Exactly
What you Nazi White boys don't understand is I have been to that Munich Museum in person 4 times. You boys are not interested in knowledge only tag teaming little boy gang rants.
As for the Green Eyed / Red Sphinx watch this and read the Pyramid Texts translation for the 'Green Eyes of Horus'. The Great Sphinx's original name 'Hor-em-akhet' means the 'Horus in the Horizon'. The AE Kings were literally Horus on Earth that reunited with Osiris in the Underworld at death.
Still wainting on a scholarly or historical quote saying the spinx had green eyes..
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
NonProphet - Wasn't it the krauts who did this bit of cultural and historical warfare?
The homicidal and otherwise warped Germans are the LAST people to give credibility to.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ doesn't look Caucasian either. If anything he looks Japanese or some sort of Oriental.
Good grief folks - open your eyes.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: ^ doesn't look Caucasian either. If anything he looks Japanese or some sort of Oriental.
Good grief folks - open your eyes.
osirion are you familiar with this guy?
Mister Magoo
Posted by Kalonji (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: This NON Prophet guy has been a dis appointment I thought that since he took the time and effort to make a vid. he was someone of substance with an opposing POV non the least but someone with meat we can't even chew the fat as there is nothing not even bones "sigh"... Folks I know it might seems boring but try and discuss culture, an Individual nose shape or long face vs short round face flat nose really means nothing, not untill you truly study these people that we so love to talk about soo much will we really get to know them some what.
I agree
Obviously, he does too. That is why he refused to answer my questions about why my sources regarding the African nature of AE culture were invalid.
What requirements would be needed to qualify something as credible?
Why are the quotes I mentioned, regarding the indigenous nature of AE culture any different from the quotes you have posted earlier ie, what is missing?
What is the alternative scenario for their culture, if not indigenous and African?
What are examples of non African hallmark cultural objects/practices in ancient Egyptian culture? Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Get a physical anthropology book and educate yourself, please!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: i am so clueless teach me
Posted by Afropean (Member # 6729) on :
Taking sides are we?!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Get a physical anthropology book and educate yourself, please!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: I will have to take this as a loss. This occurs when a person makes a claim, for instance. that Khafra has a flat nose and when somebody says what do you mean by that explain, they say read a book on it. This is the type of snobby holier than thou answer you are famous for.
want to prove me wrong? ( I know you don't care, you have high perches to sit on,) if anybody wants to prove me wrong post a picture of a flat nose and then another picture of a nose that is not flat and we'll see if the flat nose "is in reference to the root of the nose sticking out."
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
^ since the Sage won't share. I am heeding his advice. I am researching. . .what about you?
You are really lazy also aren't you. I enjoy woman on top. I am lazy like that too.
But for starters...
A systematic review of the nasal index and the significance of the shape and size of the nose in rhinology Leong, S.C. & Eccles, R. Common Cold Centre and Healthcare Clinical Trials, Cardiff School of Biosciences, Cardiff University, Cardiff, UK Accepted for publication 11 February 2009 Clin. Otolaryngol. 2009, 34, 191–198
Background:
There was great interest in the 19th and early 20th century in classifying human races as Caucasian, Asian African etc. according to nasal shape and size, and the nasal index was the most commonly used measurement to differentiate races. Objective of review: To determine if there is any clinical relevance of the shape and size of the nose in relation to physiology, pathology and surgery. Type of review: Systematic review. Search strategy: A structured search of PubMed was performed from 1966 to 2008 for each section of the review focusing on the ethnic variations in nasal index, the effect of climate of nasal shape, ethic variations of nasal physiology and racial predilection for sinonasal pathology.
Results:
Nasal proportions do vary between ethnic groups but the size and shape of the nose does not define Caucasian, Asian and African races respectively. Anthropologists agree that the nasal variations are due to man’s adaptation to the environment. However, this theory remains to be proven. Published data on nasal physiology have not shown significant differences between the ethnic groups despite obvious differences in nasal proportions. There is no evidence of ethnic specific predilection to disease due to anatomical variation, physiological vulnerability or genetic susceptibility. Rhinology research is often confounded by classifying populations according to race, as racial characteristics are not based on any scientific principles and the nasal index may be a more reliable discriminator. The only area in which the size and shape of the nose is of relevance is in aesthetic and reconstruction surgery. Conclusions: Nasal proportions are important aesthetically but appear to have little relevance to the rhinologist.
There was great interest in the 19th and early 20th century in classifying human races according to the shape and size of their nose. The width and height of the nose, expressed as the nasal index, was the most commonly used measurement.1
Study on ESR.. . .
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
So all we need now is the measurements for Khafra. Wasn't in that youtube video on "the Sphinx is Khafra"
. . . . A commonly used measure of nose shape and size is the nasal index, which compares the width of the base of the nose with the height of the nose. The index is calculated from the following formula: Width of the nose · 100 ⁄ height of the nose. A high index indicates a broad nose and a low index a narrow nose. A nasal index below 70 is described as lepthorrhine and when above 85 it is platyrrhine.
Baker and Krause concluded that the characteristic African nose did not typify the African-American nasal configuration
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: ^ doesn't look Caucasian either. If anything he looks Japanese or some sort of Oriental.
Good grief folks - open your eyes.
osirion are you familiar with this guy?
Mister Magoo
My point is that I don't see why people are debating about this supposed Caucasian. I don't see anything Caucasian about him. Other than fitting within the features known to NE Africans the only other people he reminds me of are orientals.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I'm no longer claiming Khafra's nose as non African I retracted that. But I am claiming it's not flat because saying it's flat that sounds ridiculous to me especially when it's agreed the profile view is definitive.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Try a search on nose "flat at the root"
or
nose "flat root"
or
nose "depressed at the root"
just copy and paste into your favorite search engine
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: ^ since the Sage won't share. I am heeding his advice. I am researching. . .what about you?
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Indices are useless in determing a flat nose. An index is a ratio of two measurements. Neither measurements, breadth and length, yielding nasal indices are the one determining a flat nose.
If you follow all my posts announcing that statue of Khafra having a flat nose you'll remember two points are used to tell if a nose is relatively flat or relatively projecting.
1 - orbitale superius 2 - sellion
The length of the chord between these two lateral facial points is the relative measure of a flat nose vs a projecting nose.
In the case of the initially posted Khafra statue's profile there is no sellion to orbitale superius chord. The two points occupy the same place. This zero units measurement is the epitome of a flat noses.
Probably the best book for understanding physical anthropology maybe bridging the gap between the 19th-20th century schools and today or at least explaining terms and measurements is Juan Comas Manual of Physical Anthropology Springfield: Charles C Thomas Publisher, 1960
RED = orbitale superius GREEN = sellion GOLD = orbitale
Fig.1 - Location of orbitales and sellion. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
You will find nowhere in Juan Comas' Manual of Physical Anthropology the term "flat nose" Further, if "flat" is used to describe the chord between the orbitale superius and sellion that does not mean the nose is regarded as a flat nose. A "flat nose" is a colloquial phrase. When people use this phrase they mean that the dorsum dips in rather close to the face compared to the tip. If people were to use your orbitale superius chord related definition of flat noses a huge percentage of Caucasians would have such a nose. Therefore it would be and irrelevant semantic in relation to this thread subject
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Amazing!
We're supposed to believe that you found Comas' book that fast in your local library no less?
Sour grape theory: science rebuts broad tipped nose as flat root nose so I will reject science for a contrived popular meaning and refuse to accept all the examples of nose "flat at the root" or nose "flat root" or nose "depressed at the root" and every description of all those peoples not of Europe having "broad and flat nose" so that I can win a debate.
Can make tasty refreshing lemonade out of sour lemons but oh what to do with sour grapes except to have it your way.
So, have it your way!!! (even though the dorsum width cannot be ascertained from the profile) Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Amazing!
We're supposed to believe that you found Comas' book that fast in your local library no less?
Sour grape theory: science rebuts broad tipped nose as flat root nose so I will reject science for a contrived popular meaning and refuse to accept all the examples of nose "flat at the root" or nose "flat root" or nose "depressed at the root" and every description of all those peoples not of Europe having "broad and flat nose" so that I can win a debate.
Can make tasty refreshing lemonade out of sour lemons but oh what to do with sour grapes except to have it your way.
So, have it your way!!! (even though the dorsum width cannot be ascertained from the profile)
your problem is that when you say "flat at the root" that is not the same thing as saying "flat nose". But you thought no one would notice. There is similar to your confusion about making lemonade out of sour lemons as if they would become sour like spoiled grapes. Lemons are already sour and nobody said anything about dorsum width, it's the length that projects outward which is shallow as are you in your tricky omissions. Now go to Amazon and see if you can get an overnight delivery of Comas.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Shut up
quote:Try a search on nose "flat at the root"
or
nose "flat root"
or
nose "depressed at the root"
or
"broad, and flat nose"
just copy and paste into your favorite search engine
Posted by InsertNameHere (Member # 17864) on :
I have a question, What the **** does a Caucasian look like? Everyone here seems to think that there is a specific Caucasian look.
Unfortunately for those who believe this it is not true. Some whites have "flat" or wide noses, or even both at once. Some white people even have Afros of a sort. And some have large lips. Neither is prognathism unknown, even if we restrict our population selection to Europe.
So really what does a Caucasian look like?
Posted by Spiralman (Member # 16230) on :
^
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by InsertNameHere: I have a question, What the **** does a Caucasian look like? Everyone here seems to think that there is a specific Caucasian look.
Unfortunately for those who believe this it is not true. Some whites have "flat" or wide noses, or even both at once. Some white people even have Afros of a sort. And some have large lips. Neither is prognathism unknown, even if we restrict our population selection to Europe.
So really what does a Caucasian look like?
What you are describing are Mulatto's.
A pure Albino (Whites) have a very narrow phenotypic range. The prognathism reference is silly, and shows that you have been educated in nonsense.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spiralman: ^
I was going to leave my updates on the Narmer Palette thread but Spiral man revived this older thread. I wouldn't necessarily use the word "Caucasian" but here is what I said in the other thread:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji: I RETRACT THE STATEMENT THAT I THINK KHAFRA'S NOSE DOES NOT LOOK AFRICAN alert the media, lioness proven wrong
I'm glad you brought that up
I RETRACT THE RETRACTION OF THE STATEMENT THAT I THINK KHAFRA'S NOSE DOES NOT LOOK AFRICAN lioness not proven wrong
I got duped by people posting Kobe Bryant and other American sports stars. We don't know his ancestry really is. AA's average somewhere between 12-22% non-African. Lok at his light skinned mom probably not Khosian. If if you post a picture of an African person who knows if they don't have Asian ancestry. A Central or West African in a tribal setting would be be convincing still not certain. A lot of these pictures people post are anecdotal and with no background information. When I revisit Khafre I never should have backtracked on my original statement. I caved a little on that one. Stupid of me to be persuaded by a picture of an African American. Khafra only looks semi-African to me. He does have some African looking Prognosis in his mouth area but his nose doesn't look African (ES switches on second back up alarm) A profile view gives the best view of size and shape of the nose and jaw. A frontal view or a 3/4 gives the best view for a general impression. Looking at the side view:
His nose is slightly bigger than medium size. It protrudes a little. If you look in the middle of it there is a very slight outward bend in it although generally straight. The nostril openings are not big. African noses have larger nostrils. There is no slight outward bend. Our noses most often have an inner dip to them. You can see the hard bone quality on the upper portion of the Khafra nose. Africans don't have that we (I mean a lot of AA's also) We have a broader more spread out middle area. You can go and post some East Africans but a lot of them with the Semite noses come about from mixing with non Black Arabs who were crossing the red sea for hundreds of years. Some of them looked like Black people others had dark skin and did not look like Black people. For example, some Indian people look like Europeans but can have very dark skin. It's all borne out in the DNA, Ethiopians and Somalis got quite a bit of back migration Asian in them.
Come on people,lets' look at the general impression front view:
damn he looks "white" here, you got to admit
Now we go to another view:
Now he's looking part Black here. It's an upward angle, more typical of a kid point view looking up. His lips look a little fuller at this angle. But his head has got a rounded square shape tends toward European head shape. His nose here at this slightly upward angle you can't really get a good sense of it. Back to the profile view for that.
So we sum all the angles up up and Khafra looks part African part European. That's the way it is.
What needs to be done for a convincing Afrocentric case is for particular Africans who have these crossover features to have their DNA tested and if they have no Asian ancestry you have a strong case. You have the DNA you have the pictures.
This is a good idea I'm giving you. You need to thank me and keep it in the air because it will help the Egyptians as pure African purity case.
Or we can go on forever in these forum , people posting random pictures, no info on their actual genetics.
Get your African contacts together, have someone find some Africans that are thought to have these what people call "Caucasian features but also thought to have no admixture. Do the DNA tests along with a picture of them. If we have a 100% African DNA result then we have proof that these type of features are not back migration from Asia/Middle East but are examples of indigenous African diversity.
That's what needs to be done to build the Egyptians as pure Africans case. It shouldn't be that difficult to set up
-lioness, peace out [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Another non-African looking nose and in general not African looking Pharoah:
Amenemhat III ,12th Dynasty, Temple of Amun at Karnak,
they weren't all black folk, only some [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by SpirialMan
quote:ANCIENT EGYPT WAS NOT THE WORK OF A BLACK PEOPLE!!!!
wrong many were
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^White people grasping at straws! What makes that picture that of a White man?
Here is his ggrandfather, Does the White stone mean that he was White?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Here is another picture of him, does he still look White?
White people are a Sad lot.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Here is another picture of him, does he still look White?
White people are a Sad lot.
I believe that is Amenemhet II rather than III. If that is III's father he must have married a white woman.
Here's another statue of Amenemhet II:
Either show all the major statues or cherry pick only the ones you like
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Family Group Ptahmai. Father, wife, 1840-1800 BC.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
You the idiot, are now an expert on Egyptology? Proof that you have more nerve than sense.
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [quote]"His nose is slightly bigger than medium size. It protrudes a little. If you look in the middle of it there is a very slight outward bend in it although generally straight. The nostril openings are not big."
There is no outward bend. The nose is straight in profile.
quote:"African noses have larger nostrils. Our noses most often have an inner dip to them. You can see the hard bone quality on the upper portion of the Khafra nose. Africans don't have that we (I mean a lot of AA's also) We have a broader more spread out middle area"
Negroids like Mongoloids and Europoids can sport small nostrils. I don't understand what you mean. Negroids can have small or big nostrils like all races, its usually round and moving to the side.
West African Ghanaian woman.
West African Malian man.
Their noses should not be considered Europoid or Europoid affiliated because its shaped differently than Europoids.
This is what i consider a true Europoid nose
Look at how strong and pronounced the nasal is compared to those West Africans above and Khafra
So strong that the nostrils are squeezed and project forward. Black people do not sport nasals such as this. Not saying such a nose its non existent amongst black African populations, it may very well be although i have yet to personally see them because its rare.
quote:"For example, some Indian people look like Europeans but can have very dark skin. It's all borne out in the DNA, Ethiopians and Somalis got quite a bit of back migration Asian in them."
No doubt there has been waves of peoples back migrating into Africa, but I doubt this back migration had such an effect on their overall phenotypical morphology.
If you postulate such a back migration for phenotype occurrence existing in African populations then why not then postulate the same vice versa? Have black Africans not migrated out of Africa? What phenotype do Non Africans (Europeans and Asians) gain from being admixed with indigenous (black) Africans?
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Come on people,lets' look at the general impression front view: damn he looks "white" here, you got to admit
He doesn't look white to me.
• His nostrils are wide and not long or pronounced. • He is prognathous, not orthognathous, • His mouth is not small • His brow ridge is not as strong • He has a vertical chin, not a prominent or bilobate chin • His forehead is round. • His orbits protrude, they are not angular and oblique indicating that his eyes are deep and in. etc...
Just Where
Are
The
Caucasian Features
??????
For you to even call him a white man? When he doesn't even sport the full or even half the physiognomy of a white man?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Siptah:
This is what i consider a true Europoid nose
Look at how strong and pronounced the nasal is compared to those West Africans above and Khafra
So strong that the nostrils are squeezed and project forward. Black people do not sport nasals such as this. Not saying such a nose its non existent amongst black African populations, it may very well be although i have yet to personally see them because its rare.
Here is an example of what you are talking about
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Authentic Hemiunu relief:
I see what you mean
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: If you postulate such a back migration for phenotype occurrence existing in African populations then why not then postulate the same vice versa?
I do
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Have black Africans not migrated out of Africa? What phenotype do Non Africans (Europeans and Asians) gain from being admixed with indigenous (black) Africans? [/QB]
It's an interesting question I'll have to think about that. I was also talking about not only of "mixed" people but people of different races within ancient Egypt's royalty. If you go back in the ancestry of the mixed person there will be the components people of that mixture.
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
A white man: Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
O.k. we won't talk about Heminu anymore
This picture of Khafra, the head is a little turned away
Here you can see the shape of his nose better:
you can also see the slight bend right in the middle
but I do admit the thread title is annoying
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
Lioness,
If he sported an aquiline (bent) nose then it will show regardless of the angle the sculpture is posted in.
quote: Here you can see the shape of his nose better:
You can also see the slight bend right in the middle but I do admit the thread title is annoying
Look very carefully at your image. It is the light on the sculpture's nose that is bending not his actual nose.
Another view of Khafra: Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
The photo you you put up is in darker conditions and the contours are not being shown in as high contrast as the photo I showed. This little bend thing is going send us both to the looney bin
here's Thutmose looking quite Eurasian:
doesn't strike me as a black person at all
Posted by zarahan (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote: Originally posted by lioness: I RETRACT THE STATEMENT THAT I THINK KHAFRA'S NOSE DOES NOT LOOK AFRICAN alert the media, lioness proven wrong
Good girl.
quote: Originally posted by lioness: the fact is that his type of nose could be the nose of an African or someone not African.
^Like I said, that goes for ANY isolated feature, including any ''west African'' feature:
Originally posted by Kalonji You can ask that question about anyone whose origins are not stated, including ''Broad featured'' types like Mugabe and Narmer. Their phenotype exists in Asia as well, so whats your point?
No population has a monopoly on a given isolated feature, you need to school yourself and eradicate your assumptions. Do you know what ''eradicate'' means?
erad·i·cat·ederad·i·cat·ing Definition of ERADICATE 1: to pull up by the roots 2: to do away with as completely as if by pulling up by the roots
Your ignorant, deeply rooted assumptions are the culprit of you making a fool out of yourself time after time again.
quote: Originally posted by lioness: Khafra, I don't know what he is.
He is an Egyptian, you idiot. There is no reason to assume that he wasn't. Normal people don't engage in you doubting or challenging something when there is no new piece of evidence that can negate what is already known. You keep posting images as if they have any bearing on:
Do you see ''Masai'' on the map? In terms of cranifacial resemblance, these people with predominant African lineages diverge away from the set of features that are more exclusive to Africa, even more so than the Ancient Egyptians. What does that tell you?
Do you actually think an isolated feature like the straight nose on Khafra's statue baffles anyone?
LOLOLOLOL
Look at that map, and how African tribes/populations are spread over it, and then look at Lioness's silly statements that imply that Africa is one big homogenous populaton:
Mentally imbalanced statements made by the Lioness:
The fact is that Kobe doesn't have an aquiline nose while Khafra's is aquiline.
Khafra's nose is no more flat than the earth. In my opinion his nose is not an African nose.
Find a tribe in Africa that has this type of nose..
The highlighted parts above and others you have made previously show that you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about, and that your reasoning is based on deeply flawed assumptions. You actually implied that Africa, which harbours a population of approximately a billion people can not produce an nose type similar to the one on Khafra's statue.
Do you have any idea how dumb that is?
SMFH
lol...
looks like "lying" is taken to the woodshed again. Where is that diagram plot above from?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Siptah:
This is what i consider a true Europoid nose
Look at how strong and pronounced the nasal is compared to those West Africans above and Khafra
So strong that the nostrils are squeezed and project forward. Black people do not sport nasals such as this. Not saying such a nose its non existent amongst black African populations, it may very well be although i have yet to personally see them because its rare.
Here is an example of what you are talking about
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Authentic Hemiunu relief:
I see what you mean
Siptah, look I found another of this type of nostril, check it out:
look at that nostril, a long and slit-like
what's up with this? some kind of mixing likely here, do you agree?
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Siptah:
This is what i consider a true Europoid nose
Look at how strong and pronounced the nasal is compared to those West Africans above and Khafra
So strong that the nostrils are squeezed and project forward. Black people do not sport nasals such as this. Not saying such a nose its non existent amongst black African populations, it may very well be although i have yet to personally see them because its rare.
Here is an example of what you are talking about
quote:Originally posted by Siptah: Authentic Hemiunu relief:
I see what you mean
Siptah, look I found another of this type of nostril, check it out:
look at that nostril, a long and slit-like
what's up with this? some kind of mixing likely here, do you agree?
No Lioness, i Disagree. His nasal is different.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Yes you are right about his nostrils, he's no Hemiunu At this angle you can see how rounded and the open his nostrils are. But his nostril is still quite small relative to a proportionately large nostril opening, not typical. You said the Europid nostril opening projects forward, he has some of that. He has a rather bony looking small nose overall not an African looking nose. This should come as no surprise. His hair is straight and to say that his hair is 100% of African ancestry I would say is possible but controversial and outside of mainstream anthropology which hasn't established this yet or it isn't so. Nigeria and Southern Chad are at the same latitude as Somalia but you don't see deep tribes people that look like him there. Somalia is right next to Yemen a trading point with the Arabian peninsula for many hundreds of years. M1 and other indicators, you see it on the PCA plots, admixture in East Africans especially along the coast.
Is it possible his ancestry is 100% African I would say very unlikely, would you agree?
Posted by Siptah (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lioness The photo you you put up is in darker conditions and the contours are not being shown in as high contrast as the photo I showed. This little bend thing is going send us both to the looney bin
Thutmose III
Khafra
Yes, but despite darker lighting conditions on the Thutmose sculpture, Thutmose sports a bent nose, Khafra doesn't.
quote: here's Thutmose looking quite Eurasian:
doesn't strike me as a black person at all
Why not? Specify what makes him Eurasian and not African...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Siptah:
here's Thutmose looking quite Eurasian:
doesn't strike me as a black person at all
[/qb]
Why not? Specify what makes him Eurasian and not African... [/QB][/QUOTE]
It's intuitive, involving subtleties which cannot be fully expressed in words but I trust some of these intuitions. Some say the lioness has magical powers. Race is subjective anyway, yet most threads on this site are oriented toward that.
Try this. Print out some of these pictures. Cut away the head gear with a scissor so it's not so easy to notice the Egyptian garb. Now bring the pictures to some random people who don't have knowledge of Egypt. Ask them where do they think the person came from.
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