quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
No Dark Matter is all around us and can move between regular matter unnoticed. It is theorized that it is the reason why we exist at all. We know there is a relationship between regular matter and dark matter. There is also significantly more dark matter than regular matter. The question is, can their be a type of life form or entity that can be made out of this substance that we cannot detect. Something that can detect us but we cannot detect it. Something that can influence us but not the other way around. Something aware in the mist of dark matter clouds.

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
Osirion:

''The question is, can their be a type of life form or entity that can be made out of this substance that we cannot detect. Something that can detect us but we cannot detect it. Something that can influence us but not the other way around. Something aware in the mist of dark matter clouds.''

Whose question is it, yours or a physicist? Since the topic is weird enough in itself in terms of needing an explanation, and it has physicists scratching their collective heads, the issue is compounded by positing yet another unknown; an invisible entity; an entity that can interact on a material plane. I can't wrap my head around that one at all.
 

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Posted by Glassflower (Member # 17950) on :
 
I'm sure I saw a science show that was talking about black holes and it said there was one third dark matter...
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Is dark matter being confused for anti-matter?
Anti-matter is all around.
Dark matter is light years away.
No?
 

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
Is dark matter being confused for anti-matter?
Anti-matter is all around.
Dark matter is light years away.
No?

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
Is dark matter being confused for anti-matter?
Anti-matter is all around.
Dark matter is light years away.
No?

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Dark matter is light years away?

Might want to think of it like a mist that you are encapsulated in that provides gravitons that other wise we would not have planets and stars in the first place. A particle with its own field that is able to pass through ordinary matter undetected. It is matter that is around ordinary matter.



 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
I you took away the rectangles the ordinary unschooled eye will see nothing. So a schooled-eye is only to those in that community who have to grapple with what they are seeing. Think about it. Take away the rectangles. What do you see, or think you see? This stuff is too complex to make sense of to the layman. That's why the Quantum Mechanic people stay up all night scratching their heads. But have no fear, a 31st and 41st century physics will explain everything.
 

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Posted by Apocalypse (Member # 8587) on :
 
The nature of dark matter is unknown that's why it's called dark matter. Its existence is inferred but it has never been detected.
 

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Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
 
Is there a conscience self? Or we are just language and discourse?
 

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Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 
Is dark matter being confused with dark energy, a theoretical energy thought to homogenously occupy space? One evidenced for by the accelerating (instead of decelerating) rate at which galaxies are spreading apart from eachother after the Big Bang theoretically happened.
 

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Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
 
Consciousness is something that has no associated particle or material substratum that can be used to prove its existence. It is merely inferred by observation.

Is an egg conscious but yet it is made out of the same material we are made of. What makes us aware? At the end of the telephone line that is our central nervous system - what or who is listening? What we are aware of is matter that envelops our conscious self. You are aware of your buttocks pressing down, due to gravity, on the seat you are seating in. You feel the pressure from the electromagnetic interplay of atoms surrounding you. All of this fed through your central nervous system to what? What is on the other end?
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
Can anyone verify from science sources if dark
matter, as known to science, is what takes up
the space between galaxies. If not, then what
do scientists say about dark matter?
 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
http://www.science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy/

The science link doesn't work for some reason.

Google ''Explain dark matter and dark energy.''
 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
From the above link

In the early 1990's, one thing was fairly certain about the expansion of the Universe. It might have enough energy density to stop its expansion and recollapse, it might have so little energy density that it would never stop expanding, but gravity was certain to slow the expansion as time went on. Granted, the slowing had not been observed, but, theoretically, the Universe had to slow. The Universe is full of matter and the attractive force of gravity pulls all matter together. Then came 1998 and the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) observations of very distant supernovae that showed that, a long time ago, the Universe was actually expanding more slowly than it is today. So the expansion of the Universe has not been slowing due to gravity, as everyone thought, it has been accelerating. No one expected this, no one knew how to explain it. But something was causing it.

Eventually theorists came up with three sorts of explanations. Maybe it was a result of a long-discarded version of Einstein's theory of gravity, one that contained what was called a "cosmological constant." Maybe there was some strange kind of energy-fluid that filled space. Maybe there is something wrong with Einstein's theory of gravity and a new theory could include some kind of field that creates this cosmic acceleration. Theorists still don't know what the correct explanation is, but they have given the solution a name. It is called dark energy.

WHAT IS DARK ENERGY

More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 70% of the Universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 25%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the Universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn't be called "normal" matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the Universe.

WHAT IS DARK MATTER

By fitting a theoretical model of the composition of the Universe to the combined set of cosmological observations, scientists have come up with the composition that we described above, ~70% dark energy, ~25% dark matter, ~5% normal matter. What is dark matter?
We are much more certain what dark matter is not than we are what it is. First, it is dark, meaning that it is not in the form of stars and planets that we see. Observations show that there is far too little visible matter in the Universe to make up the 25% required by the observations. Second, it is not in the form of dark clouds of normal matter, matter made up of particles called baryons. We know this because we would be able to detect baryonic clouds by their absorption of radiation passing through them. Third, dark matter is not antimatter, because we do not see the unique gamma rays that are produced when antimatter annihilates with matter. Finally, we can rule out large galaxy-sized black holes on the basis of how many gravitational lenses we see. High concentrations of matter bend light passing near them from objects further away, but we do not see enough lensing events to suggest that such objects to make up the required 25% dark matter contribution.
However, at this point, there are still a few dark matter possibilities that are viable. Baryonic matter could still make up the dark matter if it were all tied up in brown dwarfs or in small, dense chunks of heavy elements. These possibilities are known as massive compact halo objects, or "MACHOs". But the most common view is that dark matter is not baryonic at all, but that it is made up of other, more exotic particles like axions or WIMPS (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles). However, at this point, there are still a few dark matter possibilities that are viable. Baryonic matter could still make up the dark matter if it were all tied up in brown dwarfs or in small, dense chunks of heavy elements. These possibilities are known as massive compact halo objects, or "MACHOs". But the most common view is that dark matter is not baryonic at all, but that it is made up of other, more exotic particles like axions or WIMPS (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles).
 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
Maybe the reader can understand why there are science ''fiction''? writers; fiction in the sense that it may not be that, but we don't yet know how to unravel a physics that reaches far beyond our capacity to even comprehend. Maybe this stuff is several thousand years into the future.
 

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Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 
Interesting.

This dark energy is thought to homogenously fill space and not fill matter?

If so gravity can be thought of as matter pushing dark energy aside, or atleast occupying position dark energy wants to occupy -- and the result is like if you push or pull a spring out of its balanced "happy" state of rest: something's got to give. Say you have two mass objects in a fixed frame of referene -- get less space energy between them, get them close enough and the energy which pushes into the "matter" and away from itself creates a suction effect instead of affecting expansion. I guess one can think of this like charged particles in a see of "content" particles will hookup with eachother, like with single guys and gyals .
 

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Posted by BANGBANGBOOGIE (Member # 18298) on :
 
I'm new to this forum and I say, you guys are a bunch of bright folks.

But I can never understand anything this Whatbox character is saying. If you don't mind me asking, do you go into a state of ecstatic trance before making your posts?
 

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Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 
I grab ma bong. Sometimes i get distracted, skip and leave stuff out, half way edit to leave the message drastically altered or write stuff i don't intend.

btw the following,

get less space energy

could read

get less space (i.e. dark energy)

* was referring by space energy to dark energy, since its thought to homogenously fill space.

* "affecting expansion" was an excuse to use effect and affect, which are part of an annoying pointless rule of the English language, right next to eachother.

* If you didn't get the charged particles (particles with incomplete electron fields) and single people analogy, that has to do with your understandng of chemistry. No i didn't catch that i used see instead of sea and i could've sworn i ended the last sentance with 'surrounded by couples'.
 

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Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Consciousness is something that has no associated particle or material substratum that can be used to prove its existence. It is merely inferred by observation.

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^ This i like.

Consciousness is awareness, sensitivity to something, a reaction things are connected by.

So from a non "organism" -centric point of view one could say reality in general is a universal consciousness or mind.

O.T. but yeah my basic idea was that the same force responsible for attraction of nearby objects is responsible for the repulsion of far off objects. Think about it: in general relativity "gravity" isn't thought of in terms of "virtual particles" but the bending of the curvature of spacetime, but general relativity isn't the whole story as it's incompatible wiith quantum mechanics. Think about it like an elastic styrofoam you force a spherical object into. The area right around the object will have pressure exerted upon it by the invasive object. Areas further away will be closer to their default density and eventually a point is reached where they push back.

Quantum mechanics is problematic for Relativity because it's closer to the root of gravitational force to begin with, which is the beginning of mass.

Think of other examples of duality based constructs and mechanisms now understood to be one or have the line between them blurred revealing a connection: energy & matter, space and time, particle and wave.
 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
So you do stay up at night trying to figure out this stuff. Do you think it will hold up another 10 years?
 

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Posted by Ceasar (Member # 18274) on :
 
dark matter supposedly is the invisible matter that holds everything in the universe together. it is very metaphysical concept, some scientist don't even think it exist
 

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Posted by Grumman (Member # 14051) on :
 
...but the article says dark matter is only 25% of the universe.
 

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Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Grumman:
So you do stay up at night trying to figure out this stuff.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceasar:
dark matter supposedly is the invisible matter that holds everything in the universe together.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grumman:
...but the article says dark matter is only 25% of the universe.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Whatbox:

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Consciousness is something that has no associated particle or material substratum that can be used to prove its existence. It is merely inferred by observation.

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^ This i like.

Consciousness is awareness, sensitivity to something, a reaction things are connected by.

So from a non "organism" -centric point of view one could say reality in general is a universal consciousness or mind.

O.T. but yeah my basic idea was that the same force responsible for attraction of nearby objects is responsible for the repulsion of far off objects. Think about it: in general relativity "gravity" isn't thought of in terms of "virtual particles" but the bending of the curvature of spacetime, but general relativity isn't the whole story as it's incompatible wiith quantum mechanics. Think about it like an elastic styrofoam you force a spherical object into. The area right around the object will have pressure exerted upon it by the invasive object. Areas further away will be closer to their default density and eventually a point is reached where they push back.

Quantum mechanics is problematic for Relativity because it's closer to the root of gravitational force to begin with, which is the beginning of mass.

Think of other examples of duality based constructs and mechanisms now understood to be one or have the line between them blurred revealing a connection: energy & matter, space and time, particle and wave.

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quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:


Again - there could be dark matter beings. Based on the relationship dark matter has with regular matter, we ourselves could be a mixture of the seen and the unseen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grumman:
Maybe these scientists ought to get in the business of making viewing devices that will reveal this particular unseen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grumman:
Maybe these scientists ought to get in the business of making viewing devices that will reveal this particular unseen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceasar:
When you start to really delve really deep down into the nature of matter, weird things happen like locality and linear time breaking down.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Whatbox:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceasar:
When you start to really delve really deep down into the nature of matter, weird things happen like locality and linear time breaking down.

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-> Uncertainty, right?

So somethin could just be phuckin with the light causing the universe to appear to be expanding at a faster rate?

It may not really have anything to do with science, but i'd rather believe that the world isn't a series of cyclic big bangs, i.e. going in circles like a loop in programming. Those can get boring. It don't have to be linear, it can have derivatives as well as integrals.

Then again, if the circle was different everytime that'd make it an expanding spiral or something.

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