who cares bout his nubian ancectry. those ass licking generals are tyrants.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
ausar
Thanks for sharing Ausar, But I agree with arreubinsoni that the Military is tyrants.
BUT
One thing that stands out is that being a Nubian does not limit the chance of becoming a top leader of an Country like Egypt....Thats the Good news. Sadly though if you oppress the people then it's wrong regardless of your ancestry. Freedom is something the Egyptians Have thanks to their peaceful revolution and you hope they learn to accept others and stand strong as an United Nation.
Like the Bible says.....Love hides a Multitude of Sins and Love never Fails. The love the Egyptians had for there people is what toppled the corrupt government.
Peace
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
Exactly. Its preposterous!!! how people alienate indigenous people of the region. "Egyptian" can no longer be used as the ethnic term it stood for. With today's population its more of a nationality for the people who currently reside in the region.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: He is the son of an an Egyptian Nubian. He has a very prominent position within the Egyptian military and serves as the defacto ruler.
Long Live the son of the Pharaoh...
Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
He's half Nubian. Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian.
And by the way... non-African admixture is likely of Greco-Roman and combined Islamic era origin. You can't blame it on the Turks.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Yeah he is of the old general stock and should go back to the barracks now!!! but interesting last name Tantawai kinda remind me of Tanwetamani last of the 25th dyn. Pharaohs.
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I found it interesting that Tantawi is identified ethnically as a Nubian, by both you and Wiki. But Mubarak, who is a Turk, is assumed to be ethnically Egyptian. How does that work exactly?
He's half Nubian. Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian.
And by the way... non-African admixture is likely of Greco-Roman and combined Islamic era origin. You can't blame it on the Turks.
Your contradicting yourself. You just "Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian." How can say tantawi is half Nubian(as if nubian's are alien to Egypt), when in actuality his Nubian side comes from Egypt and Mubarak who ancestry comes from a Eurasian background is ethnically Egyptian. That does not make any sense. Nubian's have always been in apart of AE history and to this day reside in Egypt. Modern day Egyptians who resemble Honsni have foreign ancestry from elsewhere so how does that give them the ethnic background of an "Egyptian" over a NUBIAN. Again make no sense. If someone like Hosni get the right to claim the ethnicity of Egyptian a Nubian of Egypt should have the same classification, since ethnically "EGYPTIAN" of today is not in congruence with "Ancient Egyptian".
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Mubarak
Khosian man from similar distance from the equator
wooden sculpture of Thutmose III
Mohamed Hussein Tantawi
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lioness, you keep sliding further and further from lucidity. Maybe it would be a good idea to take a rest now?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^^That boi Lionese is a joke! LOL!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lion - The problem is that I think she was serious.
Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: Your contradicting yourself. You just "Mubarak is Egyptian, ethnically speaking. He's obviously not of wholly NE African ancestry, but he's still ethnically Egyptian." How can say tantawi is half Nubian(as if nubian's are alien to Egypt), when in actuality his Nubian side comes from Egypt and Mubarak who ancestry comes from a Eurasian background is ethnically Egyptian. That does not make any sense. Nubian's have always been in apart of AE history and to this day reside in Egypt. Modern day Egyptians who resemble Honsni have foreign ancestry from elsewhere so how does that give them the ethnic background of an "Egyptian" over a NUBIAN. Again make no sense. If someone like Hosni get the right to claim the ethnicity of Egyptian a Nubian of Egypt should have the same classification, since ethnically "EGYPTIAN" of today is not in congruence with "Ancient Egyptian".
Do you not know the difference between nationality and ethnicity? Nationality wise, they are both 100% Egyptian. Since the modern Arab Republic of Egypt consists of what used to be independent Lower Nubia. Ethnicity wise, Tantawi is only half Egyptian, half Nubian. Mubarak is 100% Egyptian. In Egypt today, there are three dominant ethnic groups... the predominant Egyptians, the Nubians, and the Beja. The Egyptians are the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians, all though in regard to Lower Egypt in particular having received foreign gene-flow during the historic era, esp. during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. The Nubians and the Beja are not the direct descendants, all though they likely most resemble the ancients on a genetic and phenotypic level. The Nubians and Beja are culturally distinct from the predominant Egyptian culture/population and have their own identity, people like Mubarack only know and identify with "Egyptian" culture. And they would not have it any other way. Lower and Middle Egyptians are likely predominantly African, and they look it, in regard to a Northeast African context at least. In that they look more African than your average 50/50 East African/Eurasian child. I'm not contradicting myself, your just confused.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Let me clarify for anybody curious about Hosni's background. He comes from Mounufia governate in the Delta region. People from this area tend to be a little on the light side. Even the fellahin from here can sometimes resemble southern Europeans. He is not from a wealthy family but I have no doubt he has pre-Islamic and Islamic era admixture. Lots of Arabs in this area intermingled with the fellahin. This is well documented.
Either way I am glab Hosni is disposed. I have low expectations considering that Omar Suleiman is an Egyptian military officer. Egyptian military are not known for their human rights violation. Plus the overall character of Egyptians tends to be of pasivity.
As for the origins of Tantawi. Nubians in Egypt tend to cling to pre-Islamic idenity more so than Egyptians who tend to identify with Arabs. This is why Nubians consider themselves distinct from most Egyptians. What foreigners and Egyptians donot realize is that there are Nubians as dark as southern Sudanese and some lighter than Hosni Mubarak.
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore:
quote:Originally posted by multisphinx:
Do you not know the difference between nationality and ethnicity? Nationality wise, they are both 100% Egyptian. Since the modern Arab Republic of Egypt consists of what used to be independent Lower Nubia. Ethnicity wise, Tantawi is only half Egyptian, half Nubian. Mubarak is 100% Egyptian. In Egypt today, there are three dominant ethnic groups... the predominant Egyptians, the Nubians, and the Beja. The Egyptians are the direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians, all though in regard to Lower Egypt in particular having received foreign gene-flow during the historic era, esp. during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. The Nubians and the Beja are not the direct descendants, all though they likely most resemble the ancients on a genetic and phenotypic level. The Nubians and Beja are culturally distinct from the predominant Egyptian culture/population and have their own identity, people like Mubarack only know and identify with "Egyptian" culture. And they would not have it any other way. Lower and Middle Egyptians are likely predominantly African, and they look it, in regard to a Northeast African context at least. In that they look more African than your average 50/50 East African/Eurasian child. I'm not contradicting myself, your just confused.
My point is this, the way the populace of modern Egypt is today, you can't say someone who is light skinned is more Egyptian then someone is who is dark skinned(nubian). A Nubian has the right to classify themselves as Nubian. My personal opinion on the matter is that the only reason Nubian in Egypt are categorized as a ethnic group is because they are dark skinned. You can ask many city dwellers in Egypt of their heritage and they will tell you they part Turk, Syrian, etc... For that reason how can someone be 100% Egyptian.. and just because one is dark skinned like Tantawi they have to pull out their heritage to see where his blackness comes from as if his blackness is foreign to Egypt. Its contradictory.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: You can ask many city dwellers in Egypt of their heritage and they will tell you they part Turk, Syrian, etc... For that reason how can someone be 100% Egyptian..
because some Egyptians come from an unbroken indigenous to Egypt ancestry
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: I have no doubt he (Mubarak ) has pre-Islamic and Islamic era admixture.
Most Egyptians are indigenous people who converted to Islam. Others have foreign ancestry. To say that you "have no doubt" is not evidence
Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: My point is this, the way the populace of modern Egypt is today, you can't say someone who is light skinned is more Egyptian then someone is who is dark skinned(nubian). A Nubian has the right to classify themselves as Nubian. My personal opinion on the matter is that the only reason Nubian in Egypt are categorized as a ethnic group is because they are dark skinned. You can ask many city dwellers in Egypt of their heritage and they will tell you they part Turk, Syrian, etc... For that reason how can someone be 100% Egyptian.. and just because one is dark skinned like Tantawi they have to pull out their heritage to see where his blackness comes from as if his blackness is foreign to Egypt. Its contradictory. [/QB]
That has nothing to do with skin color. Dark skinned Egyptians who resemble Nubians in the vicinity of Luxor and Aswan are equally ethnically Egyptian in comparison to lighter skinned Egyptians from the Delta. Dark skin doesn't equal Nubian. Nubians speak their own Nilo-Saharan language and practice their own unique culture, distinct from their fellow dark skinned Upper Egyptian counterparts. Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras.
Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: I have no doubt he (Mubarak ) has pre-Islamic and Islamic era admixture.
Most Egyptians are indigenous people who converted to Islam. Others have foreign ancestry. To say that you "have no doubt" is not evidence
They're indigenous to an extent, in that most modern Egyptians possess significant African and therefore Ancient Egyptian ancestry. But they are in no way a continuation of the biocultural diversity seen in Ancient Egypt. They've experienced gene-flow via the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. In particular the former.
"It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians. By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made-up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins."
Faiyum is in Middle Egypt. If 30% of Faiyum's population was Greek, with larger Greek populations in the Delta/Lower Egypt (the Greek population being gradually absorbed prior to Roman rule), how could you deny the historically mixed nature of the modern Egyptian population?
The above doesn't even take into account Islamic era gene-flow.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Lioness, that was not my contention that most of the Egyptian population has its origins in the pre-islamic population. Being that I am an Egyptian I know more about the population demographics than both you and many of my countrymen/woman that are not as learned. I know precise details about various villages in Egypt including the Delta and many rural areas.
You fail to account for the population distribution of pre-Islamic,Islamic and modern Egypt in accordance to modern Egyptians. Since you want to get scientific let's see both the historical and scientific data that Mubarak does not have foreign admixture. The burden of proof is on you. Plus I think I clarified this was a personal opinion instead of a fact. This is a casual Egyptology forum and not a journal.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Plus Lioness claim that many Egyptians have unbroken ancestry from ancient Egypt can easily be refute from first hand and second documents from all periods in Egypt's history. Its well known certain tracts of land in rural and urban Egypt was inhabited by foreign groups.
Most academics generally regard the Copts are the purest ancient Egyptians simply based on linguists but they are wrong. The purest Egyptians tend to be the poor Egyptians and also the ones that have rural origins. Be they Coptic or Muslim these groups have minimal modern admixture. Of course it does not make them pristine.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore: Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras.
Question #1: What about modern Egypt do you see as culturally the same as AE?
Question #2: Where in the modern population of Egypt do you see people who look like the AE?
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore:
That has nothing to do with skin color. Dark skinned Egyptians who resemble Nubians in the vicinity of Luxor and Aswan are equally ethnically Egyptian in comparison to lighter skinned Egyptians from the Delta. Dark skin doesn't equal Nubian. Nubians speak their own Nilo-Saharan language and practice their own unique culture, distinct from their fellow dark skinned Upper Egyptian counterparts. Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras. [/QUOTE]
I am speaking in general terms here. I know who the Nubian are. You said "If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry." Yes they would..If a dark skinned egyptian where to come up to Cairo for some sort of business ordeal, rather then being classified as Egyptian, he would be seen as Nubian. I am speaking in terms of the average Cairo Masrawi(Egyptian) perception(that has been tainted by the mainstream propaganda). Whether a dark skinned individual is nubian ethnically or not they are perceived and labeled as nubian. If a light skinned Syrian(example Omer Sharif) born and raised in egypt were to be seen on the streets there is not question whether or not he/she is egyptian. No one will question his ethnic background, he would automatically be seen as 100% Egyptian. I am speaking of the perception people have of the today'sEgyptian Ethnic identity... there is conjecture to it.
Here is a interview with Egyptian band group from upper Egypt who are egyptian, and they talk about how they are seen as Nubian when in actuality they are ordinary Egyptians, but because of their dark skin they are automatically perceived as from Nubia.
I am speaking of perception of the people. Plus someone like Omer Sharif, is classified as Egyptian.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
multisphinx - The Old Doctore is just another Turk, or Turk mulatto, talking racist nonsense in order to justify their occupation of Egypt.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hay MultiSphinx so they are a mixed music band, that much I picked up how is the reggae scene over there in Egypt? and could you do a rough translation please?? I want get more out of this interview.
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
Well basically, here is a brief bio they put on their page-
Why Blactheama ?
Not only because they are dark skinned , but also cause they present a mix between the dark skinned in the world like “ REGGH, BLUES, JAZZ , HIP HOP , R & B , and Nubian Music “ and all this is presented in the slang language which taken from the Egyptian streets.
The project of the group:
It is trying to search for a relation between the music of the dark skinned in the world and mix it with so simple and useful words in an easy way that makes the normal street people understand this music without any complication.
“So simply our project is presenting an alternative song “
When was the Group founded?
It was founded on 2004 on the hands of AMIR SALAH who was having before a group called “KARISMA” with a friend of him MOHAMED ABDO , and then in one of their shows they met MOHAMED BAHR and they loved his voice so much and from this moment they decided to make a new group with a new name and that was BLACKTHEAMA.
The interview explains briefly about how they want to amalgamate different styles of "black" music into their music. Everything from American Hiphop/rap/rnb to reggae etc.. all with the egyptian twist. Really if you think about it its a marketing tactic to make their music standout in the mainstream. The music industry in Cairo is there to serve the Middle East. The Target market is the Gulf and Sham(Syria,Lebanon,etc.). And the Egyptian people try their best to emulate it as much as possible(you see how egyptian women try and lighten their skin with creams and so on). Hiphop is becoming popular and is finding its way into many cultures around the world. So carrying that as their banner is a pretty good marketing strategy on their part.
Their are other Egyptians making their way into the Arab music industry that don't fall into your stereotypical "Egyptian".
You probably already noticed they stand out from the crowd in their videos. It shows you how the egyptian music industry is really not there to serve the egyptian people but elite and the people of middle east.
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
By the way Abd El fattah Greiny is not Egyptian he is Moroccan.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Glad to see Black Egyptians are trying to connect with "New World" Blacks.
Brada-Anansi - You might want to tell them about true "Coconuts" music, not just Reggae. Great variety there, and it is more African than Reggae or Hip Hop.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
multisphinx
Man Multisphinx, Those videos are nice....Its good to see African Egyptians and Moroccans getting a Foothold in the Industries of Arabia.
I remember BlackTheama from a while back...Someone posted that same Video Before about that Group.
You only hope the Egyptians can see that bleaching is wrong and should not happen. People with Darkskin should know they are Black and Beautiful and don't need to bleach the color out of there skin.
Peace
Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: multisphinx - The Old Doctore is just another Turk, or Turk mulatto, talking racist nonsense in order to justify their occupation of Egypt.
I'm Doctoris Scientia, half Tuareg/half Songhai... no Turk. Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by multisphinx:
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore:
That has nothing to do with skin color. Dark skinned Egyptians who resemble Nubians in the vicinity of Luxor and Aswan are equally ethnically Egyptian in comparison to lighter skinned Egyptians from the Delta. Dark skin doesn't equal Nubian. Nubians speak their own Nilo-Saharan language and practice their own unique culture, distinct from their fellow dark skinned Upper Egyptian counterparts. Most Egyptians don't claim foreign heritage and they're known in the Middle East for proudly representing their Egyptian identity and culture. Tantawi is half ethnic Nubian. If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry. Modern Egyptians are the direct descendants of the AE, no matter if they're light or dark; their phenotypic diversity is due to historical gene-flow during the Greco-Roman and Islamic eras.
I am speaking in general terms here. I know who the Nubian are. You said "If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry." Yes they would..If a dark skinned egyptian where to come up to Cairo for some sort of business ordeal, rather then being classified as Egyptian, he would be seen as Nubian. I am speaking in terms of the average Cairo Masrawi(Egyptian) perception(that has been tainted by the mainstream propaganda). Whether a dark skinned individual is nubian ethnically or not they are perceived and labeled as nubian. If a light skinned Syrian(example Omer Sharif) born and raised in egypt were to be seen on the streets there is not question whether or not he/she is egyptian. No one will question his ethnic background, he would automatically be seen as 100% Egyptian. I am speaking of the perception people have of the today'sEgyptian Ethnic identity... there is conjecture to it.
Here is a interview with Egyptian band group from upper Egypt who are egyptian, and they talk about how they are seen as Nubian when in actuality they are ordinary Egyptians, but because of their dark skin they are automatically perceived as from Nubia.
I am speaking of perception of the people. Plus someone like Omer Sharif, is classified as Egyptian. [/QUOTE]
delete
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Although this was not addressed to me I will try to answer at least one of your questions.
The culture of the rural fellahin has many vestiges of the older culture in folklore and funerary culture. Many anthropologist have studied and documented survivals of customs of the ancient Egyptians which may constitute survivals. Much is up for debate but most traditions have no tie to Islam or Christianity of the majority.
I agree with you that the phenotype of the ancient Egyptians is hard to find within most of the modern Egyptians but it still in traces amongst the rural Egyptians.
Posted by The Old Doctore (Member # 18546) on :
quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: I am speaking in general terms here. I know who the Nubian are. You said "If his father was a dark skinned Luxorian, no one would be talking about any Nubian ancestry." Yes they would..If a dark skinned egyptian where to come up to Cairo for some sort of business ordeal, rather then being classified as Egyptian, he would be seen as Nubian. I am speaking in terms of the average Cairo Masrawi(Egyptian) perception(that has been tainted by the mainstream propaganda). Whether a dark skinned individual is nubian ethnically or not they are perceived and labeled as nubian. If a light skinned Syrian(example Omer Sharif) born and raised in egypt were to be seen on the streets there is not question whether or not he/she is egyptian. No one will question his ethnic background, he would automatically be seen as 100% Egyptian. I am speaking of the perception people have of the today'sEgyptian Ethnic identity... there is conjecture to it.
Here is a interview with Egyptian band group from upper Egypt who are egyptian, and they talk about how they are seen as Nubian when in actuality they are ordinary Egyptians, but because of their dark skin they are automatically perceived as from Nubia.
I am speaking of perception of the people. Plus someone like Omer Sharif, is classified as Egyptian. [/QB]
I can't understand Arabic. Where are those boys from? I found them on facebook and they listed Nubian under genre, why is that?
Thats not entirely the case. If your talking about people on the street, anybody could have their own perceptions on where the people they see on the street are from. But we are talking about public figures... no one would be making up stories of Nubian ancestry if his father had been from Luxor. Tantawi doesn't even look Nubian, and looks more Middle Egyptian or rural Lower Egyptian. Like most half Northeast African/half Western Eurasian individuals/populations, Egyptians tend to look more Western Eurasian. NE African genes are usually swallowed up phenotypically. Therefore it is no coincidence that Lower Egyptians would assume that a person who looks more like them is Egyptian, in contrast to a person who doesn't.
Omer Sharif is Lebanese btw
I'm not denying racism in Egypt either, but I've been to Egypt and the people from Luxor and the surrounding areas are not considered "Nubian" by your average Lower Egyptian. If Tantawi was from Luxor, no one would be calling him "Nubian". For what reason... if he isn't one?
Posted by arreubinsoni (Member # 12885) on :
quote:BUT
One thing that stands out is that being a Nubian does not limit the chance of becoming a top leader of an Country like Egypt
man this stuff does not matter when u have money shooting out of your pockets. half of these people are handpicked to make disruptions amongst the populations. they dont wont unity of general people so they come up with divisions or poverty or whatever works. only in the americas and britain the populous really practice race stuff because they believe in it hardcore whereas in the arab world they believe in money. as long as you follow the euro masters bidding u r cool.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
People in Egypt typically donot distinguish by skin color but dialect. Saidi people and Bahari Egyptians have distinctive dialects and this leads to difference. Other things also signal such as clothing and mannerisms. Nubians have their own distinct culture and dialect.
Infact, many Egyptian Americans returing to their parent's country get made fun of because our Arabic is rusty.
Racism,colorism and ethnocentrism exists in Egypt. Its much more pronounced towards southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans.
Posted by tigerlily_misr (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: He is the son of an an Egyptian Nubian. He has a very prominent position within the Egyptian military and serves as the defacto ruler.
My husband knew him personally and also former Intelligence Chief and short-time VP of Egypt Omar Suleiman while working in Cairo. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Old Doctore:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: multisphinx - The Old Doctore is just another Turk, or Turk mulatto, talking racist nonsense in order to justify their occupation of Egypt.
I'm Doctoris Scientia, half Tuareg/half Songhai... no Turk.
It is estimated that the Doctor is 0-4% European
while Mike111 is estimated to be 14% Turkish albino
This is why he endears himself to the Persians and Romans, it comes from his albino ancestry, that feeling of connection
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Thanks MultiSphinx well hopefully with political revolution come social revolution,too many folks in the West,forgot that they underwent the same issues as the folks in Egypt are going through today, as a matter of fact our social revolution is not yet complete we still in some quarters we stil have this lite-skinned vs dark-skinned "good hair" vs "bad hair" thing but fight on and things will change http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtfEmTHeYNw check this out.
Posted by arreubinsoni (Member # 12885) on :
quote:Racism,colorism and ethnocentrism exists in Egypt. Its much more pronounced towards southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans.
yeah but will u also talk about the racism of somalis against so called bantu.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
I am not a Somali so I donot know much first hand about the racism amongst Somalis against the Somali Bantu. I have heard some remarks against Somali Bantu such as jereer which I believe refers to the hair texture of Somali Bantus. This is all I know.
As an Egyptian I have heard first hand the derogatory remarks Egyptians throw at southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans. Egyptians say things like oooga booga and make ape noises to Africans walking around in Cairo. Even the darker skinned Egyptians join in at the taunting.
I like sub-saharan Africans and southern Sudanese. Both live a lifestyle similiar to my relatives in baladi neighboorhoods and the rural countryside. Our folk traditions and customs are very similiar. Unfortunately, these traditions in Egypt are dying due to increased Islamization and the spread of western culture.
Very few people care enough to look deeply into the hidden culture that exists within modern Egypt.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: I am not a Somali so I donot know much first hand about the racism amongst Somalis against the Somali Bantu. I have heard some remarks against Somali Bantu such as jereer which I believe refers to the hair texture of Somali Bantus. This is all I know.
As an Egyptian I have heard first hand the derogatory remarks Egyptians throw at southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans. Egyptians say things like oooga booga and make ape noises to Africans walking around in Cairo. Even the darker skinned Egyptians join in at the taunting.
I like sub-saharan Africans and southern Sudanese. Both live a lifestyle similiar to my relatives in baladi neighboorhoods and the rural countryside. Our folk traditions and customs are very similiar. Unfortunately, these traditions in Egypt are dying due to increased Islamization and the spread of western culture.
Very few people care enough to look deeply into the hidden culture that exists within modern Egypt.
Ausar
Given the varied physiognomy of your so-called sub-saharan Africans, how do Egyptians tell the difference between a dark skinned Egyptian and a dark skined so called sub-saharan?
Lion!
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: I am not a Somali so I donot know much first hand about the racism amongst Somalis against the Somali Bantu. I have heard some remarks against Somali Bantu such as jereer which I believe refers to the hair texture of Somali Bantus. This is all I know.
As an Egyptian I have heard first hand the derogatory remarks Egyptians throw at southern Sudanese and sub-saharan Africans. Egyptians say things like oooga booga and make ape noises to Africans walking around in Cairo. Even the darker skinned Egyptians join in at the taunting.
I like sub-saharan Africans and southern Sudanese. Both live a lifestyle similiar to my relatives in baladi neighboorhoods and the rural countryside. Our folk traditions and customs are very similiar. Unfortunately, these traditions in Egypt are dying due to increased Islamization and the spread of western culture.
Very few people care enough to look deeply into the hidden culture that exists within modern Egypt.
Ausar
Given the varied physiognomy of your so-called sub-saharan Africans, how do Egyptians tell the difference between a dark skinned Egyptian and a dark skined so called sub-saharan?
Lion!
In my experience it has nothing to do with skin color. In most cases the immgigrants/refugees who come to Egypt, can't speak the language, or their Arabic is rusty, this is an indication that they are foreign to the land(However, those who are born in egypt are able to assimilate better then those who are not). Xenophobia in most cases is the reason for the taunting. As you have seen on TV for the past several weeks; indicates the desperation the Egyptian people are going through to put food on the table for their kids. 60% of population makes under 2 dollars a day. This should indicative why Xenophobia is prevalent in Egypt. If foreigners are coming and taking jobs, its making it harder for those living in Egypt to make a living. The current population of Egypt is more then 100 million. It is said that there is about a couple million immigrants/refugees from surrounding African nations as well as Palestine. But all in all skin color is not the basis for their taunting.
There is color-ism in Egypt. This is amongst the people of Egypt to some degree. The elite Arabs,Turks, Syrians, etc... are lighter skinned and feel a sense of superiority to the darker skinned Egyptians. This happens all over the world BRAZIL(European decent feel superior to the colored population), Somalia(Ashraf,Reer Xamar,Shin shiyo, Barawaa.. in most cases its just tribalism at it worst.. and if your bantu it even worse), India(we all know of the caste system), Dominicans(European decent feel superior),etc... Happens all over the world; Asia, Africa, every where. Colonization of the past and western culture has bred this disease in the hearts of men. The disease that the lighter you are the more superior/civilized/pristine you are. Its absurd! but it takes enlightenment to overcome this arrogance due to ignorance.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lyingass: Mubarak
Khosian man from similar distance from the equator
wooden sculpture of Thutmose III
Mohamed Hussein Tantawi
Why are you comparing a North African of recent Eurasian ancestry with aboriginal Africans?? This is about as stupid as your pictures comparisons between Tutankhamun and Indians. LOL Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Iron Lion, most of the darker Egyptians tend to be physically distinct from most sub-saharan. You have to consider that most of the sub-saharans come from western African countries like Liberia and are typically darker in complexion than even the darkest Egyptian. Therefore, they are physicall and distinct and stick out more so than most Somalis,Eriterians and Ethiopians. I realize that Somalians,Eritreians and Ethiopians are sub-saharan Africans but most tend to consider them different than western Africans. People anybody jumps on me I realize that western Africa and central Africa are diverse but most of the ones in Cairo stick out in Egypt.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Folks what does anyone else have to say to Ausar on this matter before I "jump on him"?
Lion!
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Iron Lion, most of the darker Egyptians tend to be physically distinct from most sub-saharan. You have to consider that most of the sub-saharans come from western African countries like Liberia and are typically darker in complexion than even the darkest Egyptian. Therefore, they are physicall and distinct and stick out more so than most Somalis,Eriterians and Ethiopians. I realize that Somalians,Eritreians and Ethiopians are sub-saharan Africans but most tend to consider them different than western Africans. People anybody jumps on me I realize that western Africa and central Africa are diverse but most of the ones in Cairo stick out in Egypt.
Ausar
Please answer... where is this man below from?
Will he be treated as your "so-called subsaharen" in Egypt?
How is he different from the dark skin Egyptians?
Will he stick out like a sore thumb?
Tell me how you can determine whether he is a dark skin Egyptian or your so-called subsaharan just by eyeballing him on the street?
Waiting for your response...
Some other pix:
Who is the black Egyptian and who is not?
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
The man wearing the keffiyeh could be a bedouin from the western desert. Since he is a Arabic speaker most Egyptians would treat him better than a western African or southern Sudanese. I don't know which bedawi group he comes from but he could possibly be either from Sinai,the red sea or western desert.
1. Kids in the first picture are Egyptians either from Aswan or Luxor. They would probably be considered asmar to most Egyptians but I guess to some they would be aswad. Unfortunately, alot of the more ignorant Cairene and Alexandrian Egyptians would probably say they were Nubian instead of Saidi. I could personally distinguish them from most of the sub-Saharan refugees in Cairo and definately from the southern Sudanese.
2.The people in here are definately sa3eedi people. Most likely Aswani or Luxor Egyptians. They would be considered black in America but not in Egypt.
3.He is an Aswani Egyptian. Most of the darker Egyptians tend to be around his color. I could easily distinguish him from most sub-Saharan refugees and southern Sudanese. Would not be considered either in modern Egypt.
4. That's Cheikh Anata Diop. I think some Egyptians resemble him but there numbers are small.
5. That was the local guide for Dr. Ben. I believe he was from the Luxor area. There are Egyptians like him but still few in numbers.
Again my point was that the present sub-Saharan refugees in Cairo get treated bad and most are distinct from even most dark skinned Egyptians. This does mean randomly you will not find an Egyptian that resembles a sub-Saharan but that its not a commonplace. Especially not in Cairo where mostly of the population are Bahari Egyptians.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
So post me the examples of your so-called sub-saharans who live in present day Egypt today that differ from the above pictures...
Just an example. From Egypt...
Mind you Sudan is not a so called subsaharan country. It is saharan just like upper Egypt.
You can now go ahead and post your examples.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: So post me the examples of your so-called sub-saharans who live in present day Egypt today that differ from the above pictures...
Just an example. From Egypt...
Mind you Sudan is not a so called subsaharan country. It is saharan just like upper Egypt.
You can now go ahead and post your examples.
I will help out:
How do your so-called sub-saharans below differ from your dark skin Egyptians...?
You wrong in Somalia it is other way around if you belong to lighter skinned ethnic group, you are more likely to experience discrimination against you by the dominant darker skinned Somali tribes.
Jareer (strong hair, bantu) and Jileec (soft hair, Somali) is nothing to do with colour at all it is simply ethnic division.
1- Reer Xamar simply means City people of Hamar some are dark and some are lighter skinned some have mixed with Arabs and Persians.
the customary rulers and the Kings of the reer Xamar and surrounding area interesting enough are called and chosen from Gibil Madow (dark Skinned ones) of Somali Galadi tribe where Gibil Cad(white skinned ones) are the ruled ones up to today.
2- Shanshi is light skinned Somali ethnic like any other Somali tribe they have both nomads, farmers and city people unfortunately their very light skin makes them target of discrimination. the darker skinned Somalis sometimes call them foreigner.
2- Reer Barawa same like Reer Hamar it means People of Barawe city, some reer Barawe are lighter then most Somalis including reer Xamar and speak mix of Bajuni(coastal people) and Somali language because of their light skin and language Reer Barawe suffer most discrimination more then any other minority ethnic in Somalia.
2- Asharaf look like any other Somalis and are treated like any other Somali tribe except they claim to be a direct descents of prophet Mohamed and Quraysh tribe like many other Somali tribes which everyone knows now is bogus.
In Somali culture white skin is associated with femininity where dark skin is associated with masculinity. many old saying go like these
- "fear for you life for dark Skinned man and fear for your wife from white skinned man" ..lol
-old days when woman cannot bear a child she will say.
"If God doesn't want me to have a dark skinned son sure he can give me a white skinned son".
which means the old Somali warrior culture to survive and defend the family you wish a strong and warrior son.
ausar
As Somali my experience up to now of Egyptian people of all colours and ages outside Egypt is always unique and very positive and treat me like a family and all the Somalis I know act towards Egyptians the same way I don't know if the people inside Egypt will act same as I am planning to visit soon with my Egyptian friend.
Posted by multisphinx (Member # 3595) on :
You wrong in Somalia it is other way around if you belong to lighter skinned ethnic group, you are more likely to experience discrimination against you by the dominant darker skinned Somali tribes.
Jareer (strong hair, bantu) and Jileec (soft hair, Somali) is nothing to do with colour at all it is simply ethnic division.
1- Reer Xamar simply means City people of Hamar some are dark and some are lighter skinned some have mixed with Arabs and Persians.
the customary rulers and the Kings of the reer Xamar and surrounding area interesting enough are called and chosen from Gibil Madow (dark Skinned ones) of Somali Galadi tribe where Gibil Cad(white skinned ones) are the ruled ones up to today.
2- Shanshi is light skinned Somali ethnic like any other Somali tribe they have both nomads, farmers and city people unfortunately their very light skin makes them target of discrimination. the darker skinned Somalis sometimes call them foreigner.
2- Reer Barawa same like Reer Hamar it means People of Barawe city, some reer Barawe are lighter then most Somalis including reer Xamar and speak mix of Bajuni(coastal people) and Somali language because of their light skin and language Reer Barawe suffer most discrimination more then any other minority ethnic in Somalia.
2- Asharaf look like any other Somalis and are treated like any other Somali tribe except they claim to be a direct descents of prophet Mohamed and Quraysh tribe like many other Somali tribes which everyone knows now is bogus.
In Somali culture white skin is associated with femininity where dark skin is associated with masculinity. many old saying go like these
- "fear for you life for dark Skinned man and fear for your wife from white skinned man" ..lol
-old days when woman cannot bear a child she will say.
"If God doesn't want me to have a dark skinned son sure he can give me a white skinned son".
which means the old Somali warrior culture to survive and defend the family you wish a strong and warrior son.
ausar
As Somali my experience up to now of Egyptian people of all colours and ages outside Egypt is always unique and very positive and treat me like a family and all the Somalis I know act towards Egyptians the same way I don't know if the people inside Egypt will act same as I am planning to visit soon with my Egyptian friend.
Your right i did not mean it that way. These groups are discriminated against. But from what I have been told, Ashraf from example would feel superior to the populace because they claim decent to the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Am i wrong on that one. I was also told that the Big tribes of Somalia don't like these minority tribes, but at the same time these minorities tribes are said to be stuck up and snobbish because they are light skinned.
I have a question for you. Why do you think about the discrimination between the somali and somali-bantu? Can you tell me if they have any sort of similarities. I work with a lot of somali youth, and the somali bantu are soft spoken and feel alienated or outcasted around Somali's(a lot of time the somali kids would taunt them). You can unite a people by having them look at their commonalities rather then always looking at their differences. I know they are both from somalia, but what else?... Is their anything in their history that they share. From my current understanding of the the tribe system, once you have a new generation, you have created a new tribe. It was not until the notorious European-bred president Mohamed Siad Barre, who stirred up all the tension amongst the tribes and brought division and hate. Is my understanding right?
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
Iamnomad, thanks for enlightening the Egyptsearch posters about the Somali. You should fare okay in Egypt if you are Muslim and donot plan to take up permnanent residence in Egypt. Much of the hostility in Egypt is directed at foreign southern Sudanese groups. Many Egyptians are jealous of the southern Sudanese because many Christian charities sponsor them and give them free passage into America. Also xenophobia is very rampant particularly against non-Muslim darker skinned groups. You may have heard about incidents of Eritreians and Sudanese refugees getting shoot in the desert.
Iamnomad, I am curious to the religion of most of the Egyptians encountered? Did you know a difference in treatment?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
...
Don't forget Ausar...
Is this Black man subsaharan or Egyptian? Posted by Caipira (Member # 18222) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
...
Don't forget Ausar...
Is this Black man subsaharan or Egyptian?
He looks like a subsaharan African, but judging by his kufiya he could be from Saudi Arabia or some Gulf state. And God know better.
Posted by IamNomad (Member # 17656) on :
multisphinx
quote:Your right i did not mean it that way. These groups are discriminated against. But from what I have been told, Ashraf from example would feel superior to the populace because they claim decent to the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Am i wrong on that one. I was also told that the Big tribes of Somalia don't like these minority tribes, but at the same time these minorities tribes are said to be stuck up and snobbish because they are light skinned.
My Mum and Dad are from Same tribe but different Clans if I spend short time and listen one side of my family you will think I am dealing with different races but that is Somali culture of boosting ones ancestors nobility against the rest of the world. the minority tribes learned from the Big tribes, Do you know the Light skinned Reer Xamar and minorities from other cities inter merry Somali-Bantu more than The Big Somali tribes because the Bigger tribes are less accommodating. Most Asharaf are trained religious teachers the young graduates travel to new area and settle with a group or clan and usually merry to that clan so how are they any different ?
[/QUOTE] I have a question for you. Why do you think about the discrimination between the Somali and Somali Bantu? Can you tell me if they have any sort of similarities. I work with a lot of somali youth, and the Somali bantu are soft spoken and feel alienated or outcasted around Somali's(a lot of time the somali kids would taunt them). You can unite a people by having them look at their commonalities rather then always looking at their differences. I know they are both from somalia, but what else?... Is their anything in their history that they share. From my current understanding of the the tribe system, once you have a new generation, you have created a new tribe. It was not until the notorious European-bred president Mohamed Siad Barre, who stirred up all the tension amongst the tribes and brought division and hate. Is my understanding right? [QUOTE]
I grow up with Bantu kids and other minorities kids in Somalia I never experienced any differences at school or at the play ground we are much luckier then the new generation who are product of civil war and more likely from different regions and never had any contact outside their respective clans or ethnic when growing up.
Posted by IamNomad (Member # 17656) on :
quote:Iamnomad, I am curious to the religion of most of the Egyptians encountered? Did you know a difference in treatment?
My first experience of dealing with Egyptian people was when I shared house temporary with two Egyptian one was young Muslim man from Cairo and the other was an old Coptic Christian man who was a school teacher from Alexandria who told me the first day I met him, he is my uncle and I should treat him as a such because Egyptian and Somalis are the same people and he used tell me some interesting past history and somali friends he had in Egypt but I was not that interested that much the old history at that time. since then I met lot of Egyptians, regardless of their religion the old people always mention the special relations between Somalis and Egyptian. Do you hear Egyptians around you mention these special relationship? have you had any contacts with Somalis and how they reacted to you being Egyptian?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Caipira:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
...
Don't forget Ausar...
Is this Black man subsaharan or Egyptian?
He looks like a subsaharan African, but judging by his kufiya he could be from Saudi Arabia or some Gulf state. And God know better.
There are more than 4 million men like that living in the Arabian pennisula. Most of them are aboriginals... The pink looking ones are the immigrants
Seen?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Caipira:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by ausar: IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
...
Don't forget Ausar...
Is this Black man subsaharan or Egyptian?
He looks like a subsaharan African, but judging by his kufiya he could be from Saudi Arabia or some Gulf state. And God know better.
There are more than 4 million men like that living in the Arabian pennisula. Most of them are aboriginals... The pink looking ones are the immigrants
Seen?
Ausar, this one too is for you:
Posted by AswaniAswad (Member # 16742) on :
The arab world is mixed just as egypt is mixed in with the arab world. If u go to eritrea its a arabic speaking country with many arabs. The whole Assab is full of Yemeni businessmen and fishermen its the same with arab countries there are many egyptians,somail,eritreans,ethiopians in saudi,Qatar,Dubai,etc just as there are many in america but they are not native or locals.
Taking a picture of the City people in any arab country u will see many africans and arabs who are not from that country at all.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
ausar is still pulling this "I'm an Egyptian" con game?
This boy ain't no Egyptian. He's been exposed by at least three different people as not being an Egyptian.
I guess he decided it was best to lay low until those posters left the forum. So that he could reboot his con to a new crop of fools.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Caipira wrote:
quote: He looks like a subsaharan African
Notice he can't substantiate what a subsaharan is or any details about what exactly a supposed subsaharan looks like.
Feel free to enlighten us or are you afraid of getting your lunacy set to flames?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
For those not in the know, ausar is another of these pseudoscientific race loons.
He even said that AAs living in New York City were "light" because they were mixed with Puerto Ricans.
ausar is a race loon who engages in pseudoscience, pseudohistory, and pseudosociology.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I wonder who argyle thinks is not a race loon on this site?
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Argyle, you continue to attack me without any evidence to validate your claims. I have yet to see you defend any of your points or even demonstrate any of your claims about me or others on this board. Continue typing about me and others. This is your right but unless you back up your points nobody outside of a padded cell will take you serious.
Iron Lion, I never stated there were no ''black'' people in the Middle East or Egypt. What I stated was that very few modern ''black'' Egyptians could be mistaken for your typical sub-Saharan. I also stated that most Egyptians can differentiate a black Egyptian from a sub-Saharan refugee living in Cairo.
In my opinion, those Aswani Egyptians can probably pass for ''black'' in America but probably not in parts of Africa. People in Egypt and other parts of Africa have their own folk taxonomy than western countries.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
Iamnomad, thanks for enlightening the Egyptsearch posters about the Somali. You should fare okay in Egypt if you are Muslim and donot plan to take up permnanent residence in Egypt. Much of the hostility in Egypt is directed at foreign southern Sudanese groups. Many Egyptians are jealous of the southern Sudanese because many Christian charities sponsor them and give them free passage into America. Also xenophobia is very rampant particularly against non-Muslim darker skinned groups. You may have heard about incidents of Eritreians and Sudanese refugees getting shoot in the desert.
Iamnomad, I am curious to the religion of most of the Egyptians encountered? Did you know a difference in treatment?
Good luck on your job, Ausar. Its very goood paying if ur in the U.S. Posted by the silence (Member # 18643) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Argyle, you continue to attack me without any evidence to validate your claims. I have yet to see you defend any of your points or even demonstrate any of your claims about me or others on this board. Continue typing about me and others. This is your right but unless you back up your points nobody outside of a padded cell will take you serious.
Iron Lion, I never stated there were no ''black'' people in the Middle East or Egypt. What I stated was that very few modern ''black'' Egyptians could be mistaken for your typical sub-Saharan. I also stated that most Egyptians can differentiate a black Egyptian from a sub-Saharan refugee living in Cairo.
In my opinion, those Aswani Egyptians can probably pass for ''black'' in America but probably not in parts of Africa. People in Egypt and other parts of Africa have their own folk taxonomy than western countries.
Aswanis look like sub saharan africans, from the Horn of Africa, the Tuareg and Fulanis and their closest kin, the North Sudanese
They do NOT look like American blacks
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
What does an American Black looks like Silence??
Posted by the silence (Member # 18643) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: What does an American Black looks like Silence??
Nothing like Aswanis
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Silence, lots of Aswanis do look like Sudanese,Tuaregs and Bejas. That was not what I stated. I simply stated that by American definitions Aswanis could be considered ''black''.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Brada the first kids do not look like Aswanis, they look more like West africans, I'm not trying to be a thorn but we can also get West Africans who look like Aswanis but that is not what I said, Aswanis do not live by American definitions they (most of them) live by Nubian/African definitions
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
the silence wrote:
quote: they look more like West africans
Moroccans, Algerians, Tunisians, Tuaregs, Fulani?
I've easily destroyed your argument with five basic counter examples.
Posted by the silence (Member # 18643) on :
Those american Black kids look West Africans or Southern African, nothing like the average Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, Tuareg or Fulani
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
The point is that you are naming west Africans amongst the groups that you are proclaiming the "American Black kids" supposedly look nothing like, yet you go onto say that they look like West Africans in another breath. In other words, you are generalizing that the Black American kids look like West Africans, yet go onto essentially point out that there are certain West Africans they don't look like.
Ps: Your statement is wrought with contradiction because you treat "west Africa" not as a geography with diverse populations, but rather as a restricted type of phenotype. Like some other posters on this site, your "west Africa" ceases to be a geographically-related description and assumes a dogmatic description of phenotype. In similar vain, there are ideologues who treat Africa, not as a geography per se, but only as a locale of people with a restricted type of phenotype, which is why we see people naming African countries and yet treating them as if they are not part of Africa. For instance, we see people refer to only Niger-Congo Speaking territories of Africa as "Africa", while treating other areas of the continent as though they belonged to some other continent. Sounds illogical? You bet, but it is rarely called out by ideologues. Only when these standards are applied to places outside of Africa, does this sort of irrationality instantly get picked up.
Posted by the silence (Member # 18643) on :
Those kids have a typical West African phenotype, the boy looks distinctly like a Nigerian, they look nothing like Aswanis
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
edited- mordern nubians in chad,kenya,uganda and the average nubian i seen in sudan looks like a west africans too me and a large number in egypt still do.
some folksstill forget what most nubians still look like.
sudan is the best place too that and chad,kenya and uganda .you have to check out places like darfur,the northern nuba hills where hill nubians live at,even most nubians in the nile valley in sudan still look more on average like early,nubians.
but overall best place is outside the nile valley in sudan and other areas of africa i just mention.
some hill nubians of the nuba hills.
subdivision of Nubian languages (in Nubian languages) ...of languages spoken in The Sudan and southern Egypt, chiefly along the banks of the Nile River (where Nobiin and Kenzi [Kenuzi] are spoken) but also in enclaves in the Nuba Hills of central Sudan (Hill Nubian) and in Darfur (where Birked [Birgid] and Midob [Midobi] are spoken). These languages are now considered to be a part of the Nilo-Saharan language family.
nubian coffee boy egypt
sudan
nubians in sudan- This wrestling known as the “Nubian wrestling” is a residue of the old Nubian culture It is now practiced by a group of youth in North of Khartoum, the place is named as Souk Sitta
Map 2: The distribution of the Nubian and Daju language groups
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: kenndo, your use of "west Africans" is just as irrational as the silence's.
I am giving a overall view of what i seen so far. so, i understand what ausar is trying to say,when it comes to the modern black egyptian,i will explain it too when it comes to modern nubians.
I THINK we all know what ausar is saying,and i think we know all know really know what i am saying when i explain it abit more in detail below.
The pictures and links above that i posted explains it well also.
I am not going to debate this ,i am all debated out.I did a lot of that on youtube,so i will just explain my view.
I JUST HAVE THE FUNNY FEELING WHEN folks talk about what nubians on average look like today,they point only to egypt where there has been admixture with outsiders with some nubians more so then sudan,and only point to those types THAT do show clearly the admixture.Has folks know most nubians in sudan today still have only african dna,in egypt it's harder to say,a large number have admixture and a large number does not,so it's not has clear has it is in sudan so ceratin self haters and racist like to take advange of the egypt situation,and only point out the ones that are clearly mixed or those with heavy no-african dna,and there has been to much of that lately.
yes africans are diverse but even that could be taken to far to make point.
I remember having a big debate with a afro-centric type on youtube and the video show nubians in egypt that were clearly mixed or those in the video,and she said they do not look black,but to me many in that video basically still do,so she was sayin nubians do not look black.what she was trying to say those in video do not look like her or most blacks in africa. I had to explain to her why you see these groups of nubians of today and why certain folks only point to these nubians has being the real ones OR THE LONLY ONES.
modern nubian history is not explain carefully.
There is alot of misinfo out there. so sometimes i am force to show what other nubians look like or what most still really look like.
Many afrocentric types or african centred types are force to do this,even if they like it or not because their are still too many racist or self- haters out there.
I know there is a lot of book smart folks here but common sense has to still be used.
Many folks like to point OUT if not directly, point out they look more like somalias or something.i just sense that agenda.
Every group has their own look to A point i guess,but if i had to say what modern nubians look like THE closest,when i compare to other africans,i would say central or west africans.
The nubians in sudan more so and other nations i mention.
sorry i make no apology on this.there is just too much misinfo on youtube and on the internet.
This is how i felt before coming on egyptsearch years ago BUT i was not aware of the craziness on the internet until i stared suring years ago.there still some websites and books that mention nubians are really white,i had no idea that this non-sense was widespread on the computer. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT . EVEN THE RACIST MOVIE THE ten commandments COULD THE RACE OF NUBIANS RIGHT. many or most black arabs in sudan basically look that way too MEANING LIKE your average african if a overall view was seen of them.I SHOULD USE THE WORD AVERAGE BLACK AFRICAN,WHEN I SAY WHAT NUBIANS TODAY STILL LOOK LIKE HAS A WHOLE.
When i mean west african or in this case central african of course thier is a diverse look,but when certain folks mean do not look west african or even central african,i think we know what they mean.
Even when they use the term east african,they only point to horn of african types,and don't mention the dinka or or southern sudanese ETC ETC...
By the way you could say alot of nubians look like southern sudanese,or other east africans like in kenya,or uganda or those of chad. chad is in north central africa.
So in the end,in other words they look still on average TODAY like you average african.
WHen I MEAN aveRAGE african,i mean kinky hair,dark skin and flat noses.that's on average, central,west and a large numbers of east africans. That's the truth and nothing but the truth
so i think we know what we mean when by average african,but has we know there is a diverse look,like in head shapes.
when i mean west african i mean,kinky hair,flat noses,and most having dark skin.SAME WITH the average east or west african.
Of course west africans could have these features and be lighter,(light or medium skin tone) with admixture or not.
same with central african and many east africans.
I remember ausur said awhile ago there were a few nubians that look white,with blond hair,but that is recent,but racist would love to point out that was the true look of nubians,and of course that's non-sense.we know most nubians today still look clearly black,those with admixture and does with none,that is clear.
TO be to honest if i had to say what most nubians look like closer to, it would central and west africans,and many east africans,not eritreans,somalias or or most modern egyptians. that's the truth.
note-most east africans do not live in the horn of africa or ethiopia. Even ethiopia is misrepresented,but that is another story.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
Your long post just goes to reinforce the ignorance I described above, with regards to view of "Africans" and "west Africans". It is a pity that there are continental Africans who know no better, and just parrot Eurocentric ignorance.
You hear people speak of Africa having the most diversity in terms of phenotype, yet hearing certain people talk about Africans, using terms like the "average African", one would think that it is the least diverse place on the planet.
Yes, I know what people mean, when they pigeonhole Africans into a restricted physical type, just like I know what someone means when he/she uses the word "Negro" to mean the "true Negro". Likewise, I do know what some folks mean, when they use the word "African" for only certain parts of Africa, and exclude other Africans and African territories. It has nothing to do with understanding or its lack thereof; I just think such claims are a load of hot air. They have no objective merit to them, other than cementing dogmatic Eurocentric stereotypes of Africans.
Are you, for example, going to sit there and tell me that a certain mono-phenotypic pattern represents the "average African", while other phenotypes just as autochthonous to African landscape do not represent an "average African". Are you going to say certain indigenous Africans are "real African" but others are "fake Africans", on the account that their phenotype is not "average". Are you going to say that certain "west Africans" are "typical west Africans", but other west Africans are "fake west Africans"?
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
TO BE CLEAR Mohamed Hussein Tantawi is not you typical african or nubian,when folks point out a nubian or african.
I CAN'T GET any more clear than that.Of course africans are diverse BUT THIS DIVERSE THING COULD GO TO FAR AND EXTREME, the typical look is not light skin,it's dark skin,EVEN if you have lighter skin africans.typical nose is a flat noses of varied looks,even if you have a few africans that are black with straight noses.
THE typical hair type is kinky hair even if you have few with wavy or straight ,and i dare say MOST HAVE round heads ,but even there you find varied head shapes in all regions EVEN VARIED ROUND HEAD SHAPES,when i mean the average african look i mean most africanS have flat noses, kinky hair and dark skin.that's the majority basic phenotype look despite other looks. This is clear.
If anyone is trying to say that the straight noses,or straight hair is on the same % has the basic look i just mention,then they are wrong. I KNOW THERE ARE DIVERSE LOOKS in africa ,but the average look is what you see in west,central and large parts or most of east africa including sudan.
THIS is clear that most MODERN nubians,west and central africans or southern africans have this basic look ,that's all i am saying and that is what ausar in a way is indirectly saying.
I UNDERSTAND CLEARLY WHAT HE IS SAYING and i agree with that.
let me repeat. most blacks africans in sudan or in most areas in africa have a bit of different look then you average MODERN DAY black egyptian by the way.
MOST MODERN DAY BLACK EGYPTIANS DID NOT LIKE THEY DID IN ANCIENT TIMES,and that's clear. everybody really knows that.
Even most nubians still basically look like the rest of africa,more so in sudan,CHAD,KENYA ETC on average if you look at certain photos or videos.
The nubians in kenya and the average nubian in sudan basically like the rest of the africans then do your average MODERN black egyptian.
I COULD SAY THAT THE FUR IN SUDAN has well,wolof,or mande etc..
If some one can't understand that i do not know what else to say.
I AM USING COMMON SENSE.
ANYWAY i will leave it at,i said to much already,i think many would understand what ausar i are trying to say.
let's put it this way,if a movie was made about mali or kush i would expect to see black folks who look more like the dinka,or nigerians or mande to play kushites then someone who looks like a modern day eritrean or somalian,or your most modern day black egyptians.
same with,mali. IF i made A MOVIE ABOUT TIMBUKTU or the mali empire ,i would get someone first who looks more like a kushite,or a nubian of sudan of middle ages,or a zulu or someone from darfur or chad before i put some one in there that looks like your average eritrean or somalian or the average black modern egyptian.I HATE TO GO THERE to explain this but these are facts,even if they are all black.
Of course i would put in your average modern black egyptian next or somalian before i put in a person who looks Mohamed Hussein Tantawi ,or brad pitt to play the mande africans . I HOPE FOLKS GET THE POINT and it's just common sense.THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH being eurocentric or afro-centric,it's what i seen so far and what has been written about from truthcentric folks of all backgrounds.
I CLEARLY UNDERSTAND WHAT ausar IS SAYING,AND for me i am using another group of folks ,BUT I COULD SAY THE SAME THING FOR THE mande, zulu,dinka etc etc
Let's me Again say i will leave it at that. PEACE.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by the silence: Those kids have a typical West African phenotype, the boy looks distinctly like a Nigerian, they look nothing like Aswanis
they all look black,so you are wrong to say what you just said.they look similar to those AA west african looking kids. those Aswanis do not look white or asian,they look closer to west africans or central africans etc etc more so then then you think.Thier basic phenotype does look similar to west africans or central africans or many east africans.
They do does not exactly look like your horn of african type from eritrea,they lookscloser to those AA KIDS or west africans,and there is not one way to look west african either.
IN THE END THEY ALL LOOK basically BLACK,in other words they do not look white if you want go there.
One someone says they do not look nothing like each other,that's a bold face lie,because if they do not look at least basically like each other,to me you are saying they do not have the basic look in common and that's not true.they do not look like they are some other population group or something. folks need to be careful when they explain things.
bush and jessica simpson have thier own looks but they look closer to each other in phenotype then they do any east asian or the average east asian and you could tell they both look white.so right there they basically have a basicacommon look.
key word- basic
This should apply to blacks in africa has well even if they are the most diverse.
when i mean phenotype i mean basic features.
I think some folks are confused by this.to kids look closer to west african then horn of african types.sorry to say this but it looks true.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
deleted.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Continental terms such as "African" or "European" should be irrelevant to the geneticist
For example look at the clustering of North Africa to the South Asia
then compare it to Southern Africa
________________
Look at the clustering of Central Asia to Southern Europe then compare it to Northern Europe.
These continental terms only introduce confusion to a genetic analysis
AS if stepping across the border of Central Asia into Southern Europe meant anything on a genetic level
Genetics is being used at the present moment by some to preserve continental concepts. Like in the case of Somalis being 100% African or part Eurasian. But that is trying a square peg in a round hole
In the future "African" and "Asian" will not even be a part of the discussion.
People will be grouped Y DNA, mtDNA and HLA as per specific countries and smaller parts of those countries
These huge land masses, continents are irrelevant to that.
Genetics is going into the direction of smaller rather than larger. It's about splitting things into finer detail.
It is the direct opposite of intent to form political unity by grouping smaller things together.
You will notice this more in the future
you keep talking about diversity, that's the direction of the analysis more and more diversity rendering larger groupings like "race" and continents less and less relevant. Going from continents to countries and then to regions within those countries back to the tribal level. That's the direction, smaller and smaller
Look at what happens when someone's DNA gets tested. You find out that you are not 100% what you thought you were
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Continental terms such as "African" or "European" should be irrelevant to the geneticist
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: People, take a look at the thread below and view kenndo's racial pseudoscience get dismantled.
Folks, kenndo is a black American negro. That explains much of his stupidity and dependence on white propaganda.
I am not a american negro has you put it,but i am black.I guess you have to be american to be afro-centric or something,how dumb of you.
no i am not using pseudoscience,but what i read so far.
Most modern nubians today STILL look like most africans,meaning black. KEY -WORD STILL,
GREEKS AND ROMANS WROTE WHAT THEY BASICALLY LOOK LIKE,in the nile valley south of egypt.they had kinky hair, thick lips, and on average dark skin.
That's sound like what you see in most black africans basically,nothing pseudoscience about that to me.
Nubians do look black and i just left at that,nothing pseudoscience about that.I would say the same thing when it comes to the mande.
A CLEAR POINT ,if i was making a movie about the vikings, i would put in first to star in it folks who look like more a german or the english before i put in greek or white arab or a northern indian.
If i can find anyone from these first groups then i put in a greek.so let's not pretend YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.you know exactly what i mean.
same with east asians. i would put in a person who looks more like the average chinese from japan to play in the role of a a person from han chinese period,before i put in someone from burma.yes they are all east asians in the end and look it,but you want to be a correct has you can.
next in line would be some from burma then someone from poland,so let' not pretend.IN END ALL THESE folks look east asian even if they are diverse,you could tell a asian from a european,that' my main point. nobody ever goes around saying that a southeast asian looks nothing like a chinese.we see slight diferrences on average(not all the times)but there is a basic look on average the share,but when come to blacks we are so diverse we suppose to look nothing alike,and that basically not true.
There is a basic look the average african does have or still share with each other and there is nothing to be ashamed OF WHEN SAYING THAT.
read chancellor williams book destruction of black civilization .
He knows how blacks are diverse because he spent time in africa ,but he also says there is a basic phenotype africans has a whole share,just like east asians and whites.
Another point he never says the african peoples,he always says african people,meaning we are one people COMING FROM THE SAME ORIGIN.
I will always believe that.
Why you using negro? that term is out of date.
ANYWAY the thread you brought up,That was years ago,when i still was going by some old info,the term flat noses i should have use instead of broad,and at the time i thought most amuxites were mixed going by old info that i have learn years ago.
I since change a FEW views since then by coming here,but my overall views all still closer to dr.clarke,ben,chancellor williams and diop,with few modifications AND UPDATED INFO some of these scholars i just mention got wrong or were out of date,so my basic afro-centred views will not change for anybody here.
I KNOW diop was not afro-centric like dr.williams,but he was basically afro-centred and a africanist.
So my approach to history is closer to him and dr. williams,but my social views and politics is closer to dr. williams and if you read destruction of black civilization by him you will know where I am basically coming from.
This means if they were alive today they would not be calling the fula mixed or axumites mixed either because back then they were going by outdated info,but their basic views on history and how to approach it will not have change either.
I think in the end diop's views change on fula too and maybe the axumites,but am not sure.
DR. williams book to me still is really good when it comes to early history and modern history,he made a few mistakes and has some outdated info,but i do not abandon my african scholars that i have respect for years.
I take in the updated views to a point,while sticking the the basic view of these scholars.
You just don't throw away the baby with the bath water just because a few mistakes and a few outdated info are in these books,because their overall approach when it comes to african history still hits the mark has far has i am concern.
Even dr. clarke before he died change his views on the fula but he hardly change his views on modern africa,so when it did come to modern africa, AND WHERE IT WAS GOING he was really out of date,but that's another story.
So my views are basically correct from reading from men like these and Carter G. Woodson.
Leave it up to you to bring back the past.IT MUST HAVE TAKEN you alot of time,wasted time,to do that.
so shut up.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
In the end of the that thread you brought up,i should have said that mask had a flat narrow nose,instead of a broad nose.I was trying to find the correct word at that time,and i couldn't.
I STILL remember those last posts i posted,not clearly because i have not gone back to them,and the whole thread like i said i would.
so in the end i do not know what i was said to me.I do know my talks with Djehuti was more calm then with other guy,i even had private email chats with the other guy after that thread ended and before it ended i think.
Djehuti even if when you disagree with him,he still has a more calm reply to you.it is not really mean,if you what i mean.
It does not feel spock-like or cold-hearted.
I MENTION THIS NOW in more detail only because you brought up a old thread.
you could have made a new point or your point with out doing it however.
I HAVE abit more to say about that debate and a few others,but i will leave it at that.
I am more clear on what terms i use today however.
BY the way kushite royals did have broad flat noses,i seen it on the more realistic art forms for taharqa,assyrians drew him on A rock,and i seen it from art from the meroe period,so there is nothing pseudoscience about that,even white scholars who are in to the truth mention this.
EVEN the eurocentrics got the basic image right
I think it's helpful to remind folks from time to time.I do not apologize for this truthful view.
I AM AFRICAN-CENTRED/AFRO-CENTRIC AND A AFRICANIST.I WAS BEFORE i CAME HERE AND I WILL be it after i leave.So i am not really hiding my basic views,it's just that i do not bring it up here that much and i do not post here has much either.I AM TOO BUSY IN REAL LIFE.
Some folks forget the reason why i came to this forum only in the first place. It was a post talking about the whitewashing of the nubians. The egyptian thing was more covered here at that time AND STILL IS so i wanted to put my two cents about nubian history first since that was more my main interest then egypt.still is.
That is why i am speading more of my time at napatan.org and sudanforum.org
WHEN IT COME TO MOVIES ABOUT ANCIENT EGYPT, I HAD ENOUGH of that crap .WITH ancient egypt they do not Put in any type of black for starring roles,(those with flat noses or not,kinky hair,wavy etc or not)so in the end they do not care how diverse black africans are,If you basically look black,you are just black to them.
To them if you look black you are not invited,so they are not hung on this diverse stuff and get carried away like some folks are.
If you look basically black,they would not put you to star has thutmoses.In the end what are folks doing in thier communities and helping other blacks instead of mental Masterbation on the internet.
That's i left the first time becuae i felt i was wasting my time here,and it seems nothing that much have really change.THAT'S WHY I AM ON FORUMS MORE SO DEALING TODAY THEN THE PAST,and soon will be heading back more so that way again.
what organizations have you join to help uplift blacks worldwide?
Folks need to really focus more on that instead playing got you all the time.
I think i am finish here anyway,i already said basically what i had to say here.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
Most other art images tend to show him with even a more round head ,meaning a more realistic image of of his head shape, but i will not nit pick this time.
Now i am finished here and let me move on,i am tired of beating a dead horse.
Thank you.
peace.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
ausar,
Your lying ass is busted in more ways than one. Let's see what the fake Egyptian has to say now.
ausar wrote:
quote: Living mostly on the east Coast of NYC my entire life I have seen African Americans very light. This could be because of mixing with Puerto Ricans.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
kenndo wrote:
quote: read chancellor williams book destruction of black civilization
black American negro victimology alert!
I think I'll pass and read real scholarship. There is enough "we be victims" from the likes of AlTakuri, Mike111, Marc Washington, and others here to last a millenium.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
argyle104, finally you are validating your statements with references. I am very proud of you. Definately a step in the right direction. Next time it would be nice if you posted a link.
Argyle, I may have made that statement out of personal observation. Notice in my post I made no definate claims which may be taken as fact. Have you ever seen Adam Clayton Powell? His mother was a very light skinned Puerto Rican woman. This is reflected in other bouroughs across NYC because both African Americans have had close interactions with Puerto Ricans and other Spanish speakers.
So untill next time keep the tin foil hat and thorzine shots on hand.
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: kenndo wrote:
quote: read chancellor williams book destruction of black civilization
black American negro victimology alert!
I think I'll pass and read real scholarship. There is enough "we be victims" from the likes of AlTakuri, Mike111, Marc Washington, and others here to last a millenium.
NEVER SAID I WAS A AMERICAN,but yes i am black for the 100th time.
My friend has mother from south america and father from ghana,so that makes him an american negro?he his alot like me when it comes to history, so that makes him a american negro huh?and me too huh,just because we have these truthful views from a african view point.
In your sick mind blacks from anywhere else can't think for themselves.
I WILL leave it that.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
ausar wrote:
quote: Have you ever seen Adam Clayton Powell? His mother was a very light skinned Puerto Rican woman. This is reflected in other bouroughs across NYC because both African Americans have had close interactions with Puerto Ricans and other Spanish speakers.
Even if I were to accept your statement about Adam Clayton Powell's mother at face value which I don't. What does that have to do with African Americans?
Are you saying that in order for African Americans to have so called "light skin" they have to have ancestry from some other ethnic group?
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: For those not in the know, ausar is another of these pseudoscientific race loons.
He even said that AAs living in New York City were "light" because they were mixed with Puerto Ricans.
ausar is a race loon who engages in pseudoscience, pseudohistory, and pseudosociology.
To change topic,and i will because i will not respond to anything else here.
Since you brought it up,and ausar replied,let ME take a crack it . From what i could tell most AA WHO are light skin in new york could be of varies factors,but no most are not light because they married to Puerto Ricans,happy?Good. Bye.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Argyle, I have no interest in discussing further about the skin tone of African Americans. You chose a quote I made and took it out of context. If you want to discuss it further then please make another thread.
Whatever you have against me personally I cannot help. People on this message board are entitled to free thought and speech. This is your right as well. However, if you launch another personal attack against me then at least provide supporting evidence.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Why do you even bother arguing with a troll like that? Better yet, what do any of the recent discussions here have to do with Mohamed Tantawi??
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: IronLion, I am still up for the debate. I have not forgotten. Please be patient as I have a big exam in pharmacy school and have to celebrate my wife's birthday.
Iamnomad, thanks for enlightening the Egyptsearch posters about the Somali. You should fare okay in Egypt if you are Muslim and donot plan to take up permnanent residence in Egypt. Much of the hostility in Egypt is directed at foreign southern Sudanese groups. Many Egyptians are jealous of the southern Sudanese because many Christian charities sponsor them and give them free passage into America. Also xenophobia is very rampant particularly against non-Muslim darker skinned groups. You may have heard about incidents of Eritreians and Sudanese refugees getting shoot in the desert.
Iamnomad, I am curious to the religion of most of the Egyptians encountered? Did you know a difference in treatment?
Ausar that is interesting about the jealousy about Christian aid. This is probably something you would never hear from Western media sources. I should have suspected it was connected to their Western connections as even lighter Egyptians don't really seem to me to be really racist in the way a lot of north Moroccans are.
I agree with you many African Americans resemble the Aswanis depending on how long they've been in the U.S. and what of the part of the country they are.
Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Yeah he is of the old general stock and should go back to the barracks now!!! but interesting last name Tantawai kinda remind me of Tanwetamani last of the 25th dyn. Pharaohs.
Yes - I hadn't noticed that.
Posted by ababda (Member # 18781) on :
Actually the nubians were always a diverse group even during the pharaonic period. Nubians that most likely lived in the Northern look awefully similar to the current Northern Sudanese population.
Also we must remember the ancient did not use the term nubians to describe a group of people, nubian basically means gold, which is obvious not a term that describe a group of people. They use terms such as medjay, taseti, yam, kerma, Irejet, among other names. In short the what is called nubians were a diversity of different peoples.
I am part northern sudanese and i know what i am talking about.
Posted by ababda (Member # 18781) on :
No offense, most people(not all)that live in northern sudan hardly resemble their southern sudanese at all, only a few exceptions as i already mentioned. Again no offense.
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