Your Grey Puppon eating arse is lucky Ausar deleted the African Civilization thread, now no one can look upon the academic ass beating I gave your ignorant ass and how I challenged your savage straw hut dwelling Tin Isle ancestors who never figured out how to Bathe.
If Africans were savages your ancestors were the Savage of Savages. Devoid of any creative thought or high form of Art, Architecture, or Civility. Savage, discusting, barbarics who were nothing but colonial subjects of the Romans. It took them several hundred years to develop the basics of Hygine. Paris and esp. London were notorious for Filth, and the Latter threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies.
So from the ashes I ressurect my challenge to you, Post Northern European Architecture or Structure or anything of value not influenced by Brown Mediteranians, prove that your savage Pink Chimp vomit smelling ancestors deserve the pedalstool you put them on.
and don't come in here talking about Greeks and Romans were white because they are not. Just like the Egyptians are not black to you the Greeks and Romans are not white.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Greeks and Romans are not white.
Ironlion finally beat him
the "other" jari
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
If you want to engage me intellectually, then make your points intelligible and backed up with sources.
Descriptions of Roman Emperors..
Nero-He was about the average height, his body marked with spots and malodorous, his hair light blond, his features regular rather than attractive, his eyes blue and somewhat weak, his neck over thick, his belly prominent, and his legs very slender.
He had clear, bright eyes, in which he liked to have it thought that there was a kind of divine power, and it greatly pleased him, whenever he looked keenly at anyone, if he let his face fall as if before the radiance of the sun; but in his old age he could not see very well with his left eye. His teeth were wide apart, small, and ill-kept; his hair was slightly curly and inclining to golden; his eyebrows met. His ears were of moderate size, and his nose projected a little at the top and then bent slightly inward.110 His complexion was between dark and fair.
^^^^ Restoration of a Roman Emperor using Ultraviolet light..
^^^^ painted lime plaster mask and skull of a man Roman Period 100-170 CE Diospolis Parva (Hu) Egypt
^^^^^^^ Painted Plaster cartonnage mask of a woman from the Roman Period 100-120 CE
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Firstly, the ancient Romans/Greeks were Caucasian. To argue otherwise would be to reject history, genetics, anthropology etc. I'm guessing you must be another afrocentric clown.
As for:
''Post Northern European Architecture or Structure or anything of value not influenced by Brown Mediteranians'' =============
Sophisticated Stone structures and settlements were being created in Northern Europe long before Rome and classical Greece. A few examples - Skara Brae and Jarlshof.
Skara Brae had hot water pipes that predate those of the Minoans.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Dude stop spamming my fucking thread... flat chested bitch.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Dude stop spamming my fucking thread... flat chested bitch.
now he calls his own quotes "spam".
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Yes Rome Was Multi-Ethnic and ruled by Caucasians who were much more whiter than the current Italians of Today. The Early Romans Emperors were light haired and light eyed Caucasians like the Northern Europeans.
They were also known for their harsh treatment of Km.t, the destruction of the African Empire of Carthage and the destruction of the Jewish Temple..etc. They would force their servile populations to worship them as God..LMAO so this self hating Iron Lion and Mike111's ancestors the Moors worshipped a Blond or Light haired Roman Emperor now this clown want to claim they were "Muurs" becase of one a freeze of a Moorish slave Army.
Let the lies stop.. [/QB]
^^^jari is that you that posted that or some other jari?
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Also just to point out the celts (who i assume you consider savage northern europeans) were the ones who invented soap before the Romans.
Firstly, the ancient Romans/Greeks were Caucasian. To argue otherwise would be to reject history, genetics, anthropology etc. I'm guessing you must be another afrocentric clown.
No Im just pulling a page out of your Clown ass Eurocentric tactics, that is denying the History, Genetics, anthropology etc. that proves the Egyptians were black.
Funny how loud you Eurocentric pigs squeel when Greece and Rome is pulled from under your feet. Too scared and ashamed to claim the heap of rubble your ancestors called structures.
Sophisticated Stone structures and settlements were being created in Northern Europe long before Rome and classical Greece. A few examples - Skara Brae and Jarlshof.
Skara Brae had hot water pipes that predate those of the Minoans.
Stone "Structure" as Skara Brea is the only thing you can name. as Jarlshof was an offshoot of Skara Brea. surely that is not all. Skara Brea and Jarlshoff are devoid of any archtectural design and creativity. Nothing but a Sophisticated pile of Rocks.
Tilchtt Walata however has a beautiful design aspect to it, and unlike your inferiority driven ancestors the people of Ouata did not Abandon their Architectural Style. Show me a modern Building or a Building today that utilizes Skara Brea designs..
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
No im sick and tired of people like you and Rahotep judging Africans on a different level when your people were in the same boat prior to the Romans Colonizing and Civilizing them. If Africans were Savages your people were Savages and I want you to prove they were not.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Also just to point out the celts (who i assume you consider savage northern europeans) were the ones who invented soap before the Romans.
What good is inventing soap f you use it once a year. It was not until Modern Times that Northern Europeans developed proper Hygine.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
open a thread on the holocau$t being debunked, she wont spam that.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''I want you to prove they were not'' ====
I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
You have proved nothing other than posting your people's desperate attempts to apologize for the Barbarity of their culture. Your people will dig and hunt for anything to prove their self worth and at the same time call Africans savages when your people were no better.
If Northern Europeans were so Civilized The Greeks and Romans would have made it clear, instead they told a different story. Now you all scurry to hide and dismiss the Greek and Roman sources as "Biased"...lol.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''I want you to prove they were not'' ====
I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
^^^^^ LoL, what a bunch of BS, if they had any sort of literature surely at least one would survive or they would use their own alphabet.
They were a bunch of illiterate sage Colonial subjects and the main source for Roman and Greek slaves. Nothing more.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Modern Britain:
Modern sub-sahara africa:
Afrocentrism is basically rooted in black self-hate. You guys know you never created anything so you try to steal other races histories...
Its very sad.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
This is a true picture of modern Britain
^ see how easy that was. lol
Posted by Khufu (Member # 17461) on :
^ LMFAO
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Tinman, Im not going to get into picture spams of Modern Africa V. Modern Britian. Not all Africans live in rual areas they live in cities like those found in the west. Also Modern Britain is far more industrialized and Richer(Due to exploitation and the Industrial Revolution) than majority of African cities. This is not what I am arguing here.(Using your criteria the Arabs due to Dubai are more superior than the British and Chinese).
Im asking why prior to Roman Colonization Britian was a cultural backwater, and why prior to the I.R Britian was a Filthy, dirty cesspoll filled with savages with poor hygene.
Why is this when your people have such a high IQ..??
Show us all this Great Art, Great Infrastucture, Amazing Libraries and Temples your High I.Q sophisticated ancestors created prior to the Romans subjugating you...
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
Is Anglo-pyramidologist Rahotep? If so I ask you Rahotep why do you need a double identity to post on this forum?
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: now he calls his own quotes "spam".
[
No you flat chested Tranny looking two dollar slut, Im not the one who fucked up my thread by posting irrelevent **** that has nothing to do with this conversation. If your ass was not desperate to defend your white boyfriend's dick then you would have read and quoted me in context..
Here is what you quoted...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Greeks and Romans are not white.
[/QUOTE][/QB][/QUOTE]
Here is what I said in context...
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: and don't come in here talking about Greeks and Romans were white because they are not. Just like the Egyptians are not black to you the Greeks and Romans are not white.
Im saying if Rahotep does'nt consider the Egyptians black I dont consider the Romans as white.
Now **** off bitch, go play with Calabooz of Sundjaita, Leave me the **** alone like you have been doing.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
No as far as I can tell from their posting style Tinman and Rahotep are different people despite their common location in London.
Rahotep is a Liberal white supremist. while Tinman is a Conservative white supremist. The Difference is Tinman admits it, while Rahotep claims no race is superior but at the same time claims anything in Africa was the product of wandering Cacazoids and Renegade Aye-Rabs.
Tinman considers everyone of signifigance to be Blond Nordics.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Is Anglo-pyramidologist Rahotep? If so I ask you Rahotep why do you need a double identity to post on this forum?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I was going to quit this dumb thread but you force me to reply again
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I dont consider the Romans as white.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Yes Rome Was Multi-Ethnic and ruled by Caucasians who were much more whiter than the current Italians of Today. The Early Romans Emperors were light haired and light eyed Caucasians like the Northern Europeans.
need I say more?
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Devoid of any creative thought or high form of Art, Architecture, or Civility. Savage, disgusting, barbaric who were nothing but colonial subjects of the Romans. It took them several hundred years to develop the basics of Hygine. Paris and esp. London were notorious for Filth, and the Latter threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies.
see, it finally sunk in the very same racism you accuse Mike of and the Ironlion fantasy land
I guess it had a subliminal effect. I'm going to be speaking to Iron about this
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
I could come back with a lot of pwnage , but it' would take too long to list all Britian's cultural achievements from Chaucer to Concorde.
The products of British culture from the Neolithic to the Iron age alone surpass anything produced in Black Africa - either at the time or later.
Britain pogressed, Africa did not. When William Harvey was unlocking the mysteries of the circulatory system, rural Africans were drinking raw blood from their emaciated cattle, as indeed they are still.
When black kings like Cetshwayo of the Zulus were still living in thatched round huts (like ours of 2000 years ago), we were building crystal palaces exhibiting the fruits of art, industry and science. This is just fact.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Ibo Tumuli the longest earth work defense system in the world to date Eredo Nigeria covering an area the size of 30 times the size of Manhattan..Jeri caught my mistake. Nigerian royal and Nigerian Bes? Ashanti Gold.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Modern London and Ivory coast
Nairobi Modern Africa got modern cities too dipstick!!
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I could come back with a lot of pwnage , but it' would take too long to list all Britian's cultural achievements from Chaucer to Concorde.
Sure you can, other than Stonehenge and Skara Brea Britian was devoid of any civility or creative and high art prior to Roman Colonialism, Subjugation and enslavement.
Your people were and some extent still are Barbarics.
I will give you the fact that the Enlightenment began in Britain, thats one thing I will give you. The Enlightenment is a diamond in the rough of Barbarity and poor hygene that typifies the history of the Tin Isle and Nordic Barbarics.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The products of British culture from the Neolithic to the Iron age alone surpass anything produced in Black Africa - either at the time or later.
More wishful thinking by a Grey Puppon eating Brit. All of this great culture and all you can grudge up is Stone Henge and Skara Brea..LOL.
Admit it without Roman and Greek Subjugation your people were Barbaric nomads without a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out of..LOL
About 1,000 years ago there was a civilization in the deep rainforest of Nigeria. That kingdom created a 100-mile long moated wall (160 km) that was 70 feet high in places (21 meters), the largest known ancient earthworks in Africa.
The wall and ditch, known as Sungbo's Eredo (Sungbo's ditch), may have surrounded the central core of a tribe called the Ijebu, part of the Yoruba clan of tribes. According to local lore, Bilikisu Sungbo was a fabulously wealthy queen who wanted to create a monument to her rule. The Eredo was built, enclosing an area 30 times bigger than Manhattan Island.
Sungbo's Eredo is not the only huge ancient structure in West Africa. The jungle is dotted with earthen walls, marking more than 500 settlement boundaries. Archaeologists are studying the ruins to learn more about them and the people who built them.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Britain pogressed, Africa did not. When William Harvey was unlocking the mysteries of the circulatory system, rural Africans were drinking raw blood from their emaciated cattle, as indeed they are still.
When black kings like Cetshwayo of the Zulus were still living in thatched round huts (like ours of 2000 years ago), we were building crystal palaces exhibiting the fruits of art, industry and science. This is just fact.
Britian Progressed thanks to their extensive study and emulation of Greeks and Romans, and thanks to Arab Muslims and African Moors, Indians, and Chinese who all contributed to the Rise and lifting out of Barbarity and stupidity of the inhabitants of the Tin Isles and Northern Europe.
Of course it was the Southern Europeans who began this process, because Unlike Rome and Greece Ancient Nordics are devoid of any high culture or sophistication.
While the Tin Isle European threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies and bathed once a year, Egyptians and Nubians were erecting stone temples.
While the Celts were being slaughtered enmasse by their Roman Colonial masters and were resorting to Canibalism the Nok Culture was thriving.
While The Tin Isle barbarics were sleeping in strawhut, the people of Oulata were build stone structures.
Before the illiterate barbarics of the Tin Isles knew what blood and the heart was let alone a circulatory system, the black Egyptians were preforming advanced surgery.
That's just a fact.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Listen all great civilization draws inspiration from surrounding areas near and far as a matter that is one of the main reason for their greatness the ability to trade goods and ideas Mr Gray popon want African civilizations to be isolated and yet great for the sake of purity yet non of his ancestors civilizations has never meet those condition, Btw the Royals of Zimbabwe were dining off Ming china plates how about that for international contacts.
Posted by Whatbox (Member # 10819) on :
Well, that was a lot o lols in 15 outta my day.
I like Nok and Benin art (art from too different eras, places? (where the hell's Nok (again))).
I liked the Italien-Egyptian titties too.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
Nice gold. You're cool. Britain goes hard (fareal).
Really tho?
We're not seriously going hard in on this are we guys?
Anywho, to continue you guys's [hopefully] games, if you want to compare apples compare Romanized and post-Christianized Europe to Islamicized Africa. Compare the Zulus to the Lapps and (sorry I had to do it) compare the mudhuts Raho said he lived in 2ky ago with the brick buildings of West Africa 5-6,000 years ago.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
"I was better than you three thousand years ago"
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
Jari you're a failre. I've shown great British structures and artworks from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and I could go on. There are hundreds of stone circles, mounds, brochs, hill-forts etc. There are bronze and iron weapons of exquisite workmanship, and yet finer items in gold, including cups, torcs and ceremonial capes.
The best negro art is Yoruba bronze, and is little older than the 1500s AD.
As for the ancient Britons being uncouth barbarians unconcerned with personal grooming in the pre-Roman era, artifacts like this tell a different story, wouldm't you say?
The advanced cities etc. in Africa today are primarily the result of western contact and development investment. Left alone, Sub Saharan Africa in the 21st century would be no more advanced than it was when David Livingstone travelled there in the 19th, which is to say more primitive than Britain was 3000 years ago.
Here's something pretty from the British bronze age that you can stick up your arse...
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Your Grey Puppon eating arse is lucky Ausar deleted the African Civilization thread, now no one can look upon the academic ass beating I gave your ignorant ass and how I challenged your savage straw hut dwelling Tin Isle ancestors who never figured out how to Bathe.
If Africans were savages your ancestors were the Savage of Savages. Devoid of any creative thought or high form of Art, Architecture, or Civility. Savage, discusting, barbarics who were nothing but colonial subjects of the Romans. It took them several hundred years to develop the basics of Hygine. Paris and esp. London were notorious for Filth, and the Latter threw Sewage into their Drinking supplies.
So from the ashes I ressurect my challenge to you, Post Northern European Architecture or Structure or anything of value not influenced by Brown Mediteranians, prove that your savage Pink Chimp vomit smelling ancestors deserve the pedalstool you put them on.
and don't come in here talking about Greeks and Romans were white because they are not. Just like the Egyptians are not black to you the Greeks and Romans are not white.
And even if the Greeks and Romans were 'white', they are not a part of northern European civilization, but the Mediterranean civilization....not to mention, we already know what the Greeks and Romans thought of the wild savages roaming northern Europe.....
I've always been puzzled as to why white supremists who proudly proclaim their Norse, etc., northern European origins, also attempt to claim Greek and Roman achievements as a part of their own history....lol....the REALity doesn't exactly work out that way, I don't think....
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Modern London and Ivory coast
Nairobi Modern Africa got modern cities too dipstick!!
Greetings kingman.
I wonder if he knows what some of today's rustic rural and/or improverished European villages look like, lol..... Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
I achieved something 3000 years ago.
My great ancestors cleaned the king's feet
lioness productions
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
I'm sure if Europeans had never colonized Africa that modern London would still look much as it does, but Nairobi would not even exist. Nairobi was founded by the British in 1899 as a railway depot, and grew to become the capital of British East Africa. Nairobi is therefore not evidence of a negro civilization!
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
By the way, Jari, you ignoramus, the ancient Britons were not nomads but settled people, and had been for thousands of years by the time the Romans turned up. We had solid gold pots (to piss in if we wanted to) in 2300 BC. The Rillaton Cup, for instance. Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: By the way, Jari, you ignoramus, the ancient Britons were not nomads but settled people, and had been for thousands of years by the time the Romans turned up. We had solid gold pots (to piss in if we wanted to) in 2300 BC. The Rillaton Cup, for instance.
Yeah yeah, now return the artifacts you filthy thieves have stolen from Africa.
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
@IshGebor Funny chap.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @IshGebor Funny chap.
Hmmm hmmm,
Btw it's Early Bronze Age, 1700-1500 BC From Rillaton, Cornwall, England
Now return the artifacts you guys stole from Africa.
.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Many years ago, thousands of priceless craft were looted and shipped overseas. A few are back now, on a short loan from Britain. They have a strange cheer around them ... but they will be spirited away again to cold and alien cages.
She stands tall and proud - a true scion of the Nyamwezi people of Tanzania. Power and elegance surround her like a halo, her gaze steady and unblinking. By her side are diminutive valets. They cater for her every whim.
So why is she so sad? And what happened to her arm? Did she lose it while fighting off her captors? The cruelty of being uprooted from East Africa to Europe is too plain to see. But she is fleetingly happy now. She is back home - if only for a while.
She is one of the many attractions to the Hazina exhibition, currently on-going at The Nairobi Gallery.
Her agony and that of other captives was captured by one visitor to the exhibition. "Bring them all back and make the story here where they belong," wrote the man in the Visitors' Book.
There are more than 140 objects that belong to the British Museum - but are originally from Kenya, Uganda, south Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Tanzania, Mozambique and Burundi - on display at the exhibition at the old Provincial Commissioner's house on Kenyatta Avenue.
They include a woman's girdle of the Gikuyu, dating back to 1904, a medicine flask by the Embu (1914), a head dress of the Longi people (1938), a woman's skirt of the Safwa community in Tanzania (1939), and bearded armlets by the Akamba, which became museum collections in 1972.
The exhibition, which runs until September, has stoked the fires of the campaign for the return of priceless artefacts, obelisks, stelae, statues, paintings, sarcophagi, manuscripts and other afrophiliacs lying in museums and wealthy private collectors' homes in Europe and America.
Most of these items were either stolen during the colonial era, or sold by individuals to dealers from foreign countries who re-sold them at a princely sum. Others, writes George Abungu, heritage consultant and former director general of the National Museums of Kenya (NMK), were taken to foreign museums for study and were never returned.
"They date as way back as the 19th century to as late as 2002," says Kiprop Langat, a research scientist at NMK and curator of the Hazina Exhibition.
Some of the missing items are indispensable in the crafting of Kenya's political past. They include a huge consignment of uniform, weapons and other material from Mau Mau freedom fighters handed over to Mzee Jomo Kenyatta at Ruringu Stadium, Nyeri. The stadium was a battlefield for the Mau Mau and it is believed that Kenyatta received the items in 1963, just before he became Kenya's first president.
Thousands of documents on Mau Mau freedom fighters lie at the National Archives of the UK. George Muoria, a senior archivist at Kenya National Archives, says the British regard them as theirs. "But they are part of our material culture and should come back."
Others are head gear, shoes and bracelets of legendary Nandi leader Koitalel arap Samoei. Only two weeks ago, the Koitalel Samoei clan renewed its call for return of these items, plus his head, which was taken away by British colonial soldiers on October 19, 1907.
Led by Captain Richard Meinertzhagen, the British killed and beheaded Samoei in an effort to quell a seven-year resistance by the Nandi.
Besides the demand for return of stolen artifacts, the clan is suing the British Government for Samoei's killing. Only recently, a walking stick and baton - traditional symbols of power of the Nandi leader - were returned. They were recovered from descendants of Meinertzhagen by scholars Kipkoech Muge and Kipnyango Seroney after a nine-month hunt in London.
A spirited search has also seen the tracing of two vigango stolen from a Mijikenda homestead on the Coast, 20 years ago. The artefacts, made of termite-resistant hardwood posts that range in height but consist of a circle for the head and a rectangle for the body, are on display at Illinois State Museum and at Hampton University Museum in Virginia. They are to be returned at the request of NMK.
Used by the Mijikenda to venerate the dead, one of them was taken in 1985 from a homestead in Kakwakwani, Mombasa. "We realised it had been removed illegally," Michael Wiant of Illinois museum told the New York Times.
There are 294 vigango in the US acquired through a Los Angeles-based artefacts dealer. He is alleged to have bought them during his many trips to Kenya, spread over 30 years. At the Hampton University Museum is one of 98 such items. It was reportedly taken from the home of Kache Kalume Mwakiru, while that at the Illinois Museum was one of eight donated in 1986 to actor Powers Boothe.
The artefacts were apparently stolen by local youths and sold to foreign traders acting on behalf of wealthy clients. They sell for only $500 (Sh35,500) at local shops while in the US they fetch as much as $5,000 (Sh355,500).
The two maneless, man-eating lions of Tsavo which stalled work on the Kenya-Uganda railway in 1898, by reportedly killing and eating 135 Indian and African labourers, are the other priceless items Kenyans would like to have back. They are on display at Field Museum, Chicago, their fort since 1928.
The two were sold by Colonel J.H Patterson, who spent nine months pursuing them before killing them. He later sold them to the British Museum, who in turn sold them to the museum in Chicago. Patterson immortalised the horrific beasts in the best-selling book: The man-eaters of Tsavo. The couple is also the subject of the movie, Ghost and the darkness.
It is documented that the stuffed lions account for a substantial number of the five-million plus visitors to the Field museum per year.
But what is worrying is that even with these concerted efforts to restitute the treasures, they are still finding their way to foreign museums and private collectors' vaults. "This is very worrying. If you go to Maasai Market in Nairobi, and in Turkana and Maasai land, you can readily buy these items, some dating back many years," says Langat. "Local communities should appreciate our national heritage."
Other priceless memorabilia in private ownership include uniform and medals by World War II soldiers and Carrier Corps. Routinely, NMK purchases these items for preservation. But, reveals Langat, they do not have adequate resources to purchase all of them. So when a good offer beckons from abroad, the holders of these items sell them.
Last year, then head of Ethnography department at NMK, Evans Kiprop, said items of the Njuri Ncheke - a traditional court in the Meru culture - failed to come under their protection owing to a cash shortfall. The seller was asking for Sh5 million but NMK couldn't raise this.
A Japanese collector was offering Sh2 million. Luckily, the seller was adamant and the regalia is still around. "It would have formed an important part of our collection but we could not raise the Sh5 million the seller was asking for," said Kiprop.
Last April, individuals in possession of the War memorabilia went knocking at NMK's department of Ethnography, in response to a request by Afribilia Limited, a London-based dealer in artefacts. The dealer had written to the Kenyan High Commissioner in London requesting a catalogue of items available for sale.
It's generally agreed that without adequate funds, the artefacts will find their way to American and European markets. This is best illustrated in how the African Heritage Collection by second vice-president Joseph Murumbi landed in Government hands. Kenya National Archives paid Sh5.6 million for the collection, which included books, sculptures, drawings and musical instruments.
Murumbi was married to a naturalised Kenyan of British descent. When she died, it was feared that the collection would be shipped to Britain to the next of kin. "Having served in the Government for some time, Murumbi had an impressive collection. Losing it would have been unimaginable," says Muoria.
The contentious issue of ownership of artefacts has become global, with numerous countries agitating for return of what is rightfully theirs. This has prompted those in possession of disputed artefacts to come up with "universal museums" that proclaim to "secure items for humanity." In December, 2002, 18 of the world's leading museums joined forces to declare that they would not hand back ancient artefacts to their countries of origin. They claimed that their collections are for the "good of the world."
These museums include the Art Institute of Chicago; Bavarian State Museum, Germany; Prado Museum, Madrid; and the Museum of Modern Art, New York.
But this was seen as a veiled attempt to sanctify items illegally in their possession. According to a paper by Abungu, who doesn't support the idea of large-scale repatriation, the declaration of a universal museum was in response to fears that some museums would be left with hardly any collection.
He says that although NMK, of which he was director until 2002, is universally known for its work on human origins, it wasn't asked to join the group of universal museums. "What is the basis of their universal value? Are universal museums based solely in Europe and North America?" he ponders in The declaration: A contested issue.
"It seems to me that the declaration on the importance and value of universal museums is signed principally by a group of large museums who want to create a different pedigree, largely due to fears that materials in their collections whose ownership is contested will face claims for repatriation."
He says that he does not believe in mass repatriation, except for human remains and materials of great emotional and spiritual value. There should always be dialogue between museums, and between museums and communities affected by issues of repatriation, to reach amicable solutions, he notes.
Abungu suggests that one of the solutions may be for the communities concerned to accept the present ownership situation, "and the museum may be provided with a permanent loan".
Lang'at says that besides amending past wrongs, African countries should seal loopholes through which the items are exported. Secondly, they can liaise with museums in Europe and the US to make the artefacts available for viewing at the request of the country of origin. NMK has such a leasing agreement with leading museums worldwide, whereby artefacts can be made available either way.
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
@Ish Goeber
As for returning anything, when the north Africans return the whole population of Baltimore in Ireland who were taken off to slavery by the Barbary pirates, then we can talk about it... What? Black Africans want to take credit for the deeds of the north African Egyptians they can take blame for the deeds of North African Tunisians and Algerians too!
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Jari you're a failre.
So says the Grey Puppon eating moron with an Egyptian(African name). Why don't you use the moniker Conan or Mr. Rodgers, be proud of your Heritage..!!
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I've shown great British structures and artworks from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and I could go on. There are hundreds of stone circles, mounds, brochs, hill-forts etc.
All a bunch of heaps of rubble, eye sores compared to the beauty and design from places like Oulata, the Nile Valley etc.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: There are bronze and iron weapons of exquisite workmanship, and yet finer items in gold, including cups, torcs and ceremonial capes.
The best negro art is Yoruba bronze, and is little older than the 1500s AD.
No one cares about the primitive excuse for art you post, the Nok sculpture is far more sophisticated in design.
I know you wish that the Yoruba was the best art produced by Africans outside the Nile Valley..LOL.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: As for the ancient Britons being uncouth barbarians unconcerned with personal grooming in the pre-Roman era, artifacts like this tell a different story, wouldm't you say?
LOL, so a mirror is supposed to prove your barbaric ancestors knew what a bath was. All that proves is that humans will produce no matter how ugly, stinking, foul, and animalistic people can get.
All a comb proves is that your ancestors figured out how to make a tool to rid fleas out of their Dog piss lice invested hair.
More than likely was a reproduction of Greco Roman sources as the Tin Isles were deviod of any creative form of civility.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The advanced cities etc. in Africa today are primarily the result of western contact and development investment. Left alone, Sub Saharan Africa in the 21st century would be no more advanced than it was when David Livingstone travelled there in the 19th, which is to say more primitive than Britain was 3000 years ago.
Here's something pretty from the British bronze age that you can stick up your arse...
Here is something you can put up your arse, afterall Homo activity was widespread in your Filthy piss pod London before you all spread it to South Africa.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
When did I say you were Nomads..??
Hmph, no matter, even Nomadic peoples like the Native Americans and the Tauregs had more honor, decentcy, and better hygine then Britians.
You dumbasses almost lost to the Zulu Empire(despite having the supposed advantage), had you not been indutrialized the Zulu empire and Shaka would have driven your Red Neck, Mr. Watson, Grey Puppon eating asses in the sea..lol.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: By the way, Jari, you ignoramus, the ancient Britons were not nomads but settled people, and had been for thousands of years by the time the Romans turned up. We had solid gold pots (to piss in if we wanted to) in 2300 BC. The Rillaton Cup, for instance.
Why do you have the name of an African Royal as your Moniker??
Rahotep=Re is pleased
Why not name yourself "Mr.Watsonishappy"...??
Is the ancient dieties of Africa, Ra the ancient Sun God(better put on some sun screen Watson) more important than the Tinkerbelle Fairies and barbaric gods of the Tin Isles.
Huh "Chap"
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @IshGebor Funny chap.
Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
RAHOTEP
i bet you CANT refute this post
Europeans never invented their own civilization. They copied "their" technology, religion, and mathematics from The East and far south Europeans only started inventing things around 1500 AD because they had stolen gold, silver, slaves, and land from North and South America and Africa to finance higher lifestyle they never had in Europe.
Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe, they weren't inventing Much. They were just modifying what had already been invented by China, The Middle East, and Egypt.
So much for "white superiority".
Europeans never invented Agriculture, domesticate cattle, reading, writing, mathamatics or city-building
P.S we are still waiting for statues of white/caucasian pharoahs from the first 3 dynastys i.e DYNASTIC ERA
whats taking so long ????????
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
lol...
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
rahotep101
quote:I'm sure if Europeans had never colonized Africa that modern London would still look much as it does, but Nairobi would not even exist. Nairobi was founded by the British in 1899 as a railway depot, and grew to become the capital of British East Africa. Nairobi is therefore not evidence of a negro civilization
And I am sure with out the influence of these guys that came with the Romans places like London would remained a swamp and York a simple trading post. but the story didn't even began there as these guys where in Britain picnicking up Tin and the The story continued with guys.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I don't know about you, but I'd lock Tinkerbelle up in a bird cage in my bedroom right next to my bed for when Nut or Hathor were "ritually" unavailable.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Is the ancient dieties of Africa, Ra the ancient Sun God(better put on some sun screen Watson) more important than the Tinkerbelle Fairies and barbaric gods of the Tin Isles.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @Ish Goeber
As for returning anything, when the north Africans return the whole population of Baltimore in Ireland who were taken off to slavery by the Barbary pirates, then we can talk about it... What? Black Africans want to take credit for the deeds of the north African Egyptians they can take blame for the deeds of North African Tunisians and Algerians too!
Rubbish arguments, as you know that Romans and Greeks invaded North Africa first.
It's time to return all the artifacts you folks have stolen from Africa.
Before the colony by the Britsh West Africa had empires as large as the whole of west Europe. And were doing well.
West Africa had universities while most of west Europe was illiterate, except for aristocrats and priests who learned how to read and write because of Romans, who invaded and enslaved most of Europe.
Mostly those ancient artifacts date from during the colonial days by Romans.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
There is no logic to this thread calling white northern europeans (particularly the ethnic-british) as savages when they colonised Africa.
If northern europeans were so primitive or savage how did they manage to conquer virtually the whole of Africa?
When the Europeans arrived with artillary, guns etc the native sub-saharan africans were living in mud huts with wooden spears.
This is how 139 british soldiers managed to defeat and defend their post from 4,000+ Zulus in the Battle of Rorke's Drift. The Zulus were primitive savages in rags with spears, while the British were armed with guns, armour, ammo and sophisticated equipment.
Basically afrocentrism stems from a self-hatred...blacks know their history nowhere compares to europeans so they invent a pseudo-history.
Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
quote:Originally posted by adrianne: RAHOTEP
i bet you CANT refute this post
Europeans never invented their own civilization. They copied "their" technology, religion, and mathematics from The East and far south Europeans only started inventing things around 1500 AD because they had stolen gold, silver, slaves, and land from North and South America and Africa to finance higher lifestyle they never had in Europe.
Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe, they weren't inventing Much. They were just modifying what had already been invented by China, The Middle East, and Egypt.
So much for "white superiority".
Europeans never invented Agriculture, domesticate cattle, reading, writing, mathamatics or city-building
quote:But what was happening in Europe and Ukraine when "everything was just beginning in Sumer?" Was it really true that people there were living in caves and kurens, as they did in the Stone Age? In reality, archaeologists have discovered in Europe many bright civilizations dating back to the period between 6000-3000 BC. for the last hundred years. Among them you can find the following: Vinca, Gumelnica, Cucuteni - Trypillia. Scientists have explored many old settlements, some of them have got fortifications. Scientists have found some traces of very old metallurgy, which flourished between 5000-4500 BC on the Balkans, graves with golden treasures, and clay tables with inscriptions. These investigations have given an opportunity to make the reconstruction of "Civilization of Old Europe". The borders of this civilization ranged from Eastern Italy to the Dnipro river, from the Carpathians to the Aegean and Black Seas. But it seems, that 6000 years ago the East of Old Europe was an unknown land, a far away frontier for the inhabitants of the Danube river. The modern name of this far away land of Old Europe is Ukraine. We can translate this name into English, as "purlieu", an "outlying districts ". It was an enigmatic, rich and boundless territory.
Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
quote: Trypillians built comfortable two-storied houses. They lived on the upper floor, the ground floor was used in household aims. Several clay models of Trypillian houses and temples have been found, which help to reconstruct (reproduce) ancient architecture. An interesting collection of clay temples has been collected by Sergej Platonov of late. Literally, these finds corrected our notion about prehistoric architecture of Old Europe between 4200-3500 BC. One of them represented rectangular in plan building on platform, based on six strong pillars. The roof of the temple is semicircular, frontons are decorated with a crescent, which is similar to bull (or cow?) horns. The entrance to the temple is represented as an arc, decorated with five images of crescents. The walls are decorated with antropomorphous pillars and spiral snake symbols. The model was covered by red paint, and an incised ornament was enchased with white paint. On other models roofs were painted, it looks like they were covered by rush floor-mates An attempt to find analogies to such temples has given unexpected data. At the times of Trypillia culture the nearest region with similar rush-temples was located at Southern Mesopotamia. The remains of such houses were explored at El'Ubaid and have been known on the seals since the Uruk period (3900-3100BC). This temples are related with Nintur, incarnation of Ninkhursag, one of the most powerful goddesses of Sumer. In Southern Iraq such houses exist at present time. It is an interesting question, how and where Trypillians acquainted with the traditions of Sumer, their temples and deities...
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
This thread is retarded. Seriously, Jari??! I mean has this 'DaHoTips' (I refuse to acknowledge this African hater by his AFRICAN moniker) really gotten under your skin that you would bother challenging his mentally challenged self with anything??
You just said it yourself that the dude was utterly defeated and humiliated in the African civilizations thread. What purpose would it be to humiliate him again?? Are you that much as sadist or are you just soft skin??
By the way, so many threads have been created in this forum on civilizations and advanced cultures in Africa that the moderators would have difficulty deleting them all. The most recent one for DaHoTips was here.
Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
quote:Some other features of the civilization are the appearance and using of writing. Developed sign system, created by Trypillians, was the step to the creation of writing. Some from more than 300 signs (adout 12%), according to Taras Tkachuk, are similar to Sumerian: "star", "plant", "house". Trypillians used clay tokens - the same, as in Mesopotamia.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ What about Egyptian hieroglyphs? I don't see any mention of that there contrary to claims that such writing influenced Egypt. LOL
By the way, such is not necessarily evidence that Sumer was influenced by Trypillia. It could just mean common Neolithic origins. As the Neolithic in Southwest Asia is ancestral to that of Europe.
quote:Originally posted by DaHoTips: I'm sure if Europeans had never colonized Africa that modern London would still look much as it does, but Nairobi would not even exist. Nairobi was founded by the British in 1899 as a railway depot, and grew to become the capital of British East Africa. Nairobi is therefore not evidence of a negro civilization!
I find this hard to believe. First of all the neolithic from which all European civilizations sprang is derived from Asia (including those of African ancestry). Second, even after the fall of the Roman Empire further advancement in Europe was still not possible without Asia, and even Europe's economy was supported by gold and salt from Africa while supplemented by spice from Asia.
Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
a simple girl says
"But what was happening in Europe and Ukraine when "everything was just beginning in Sumer?" Was it really true that people there were living in caves and kurens, as they did in the Stone Age? In reality, archaeologists have discovered in Europe many bright civilizations dating back to the period between 6000-3000 BC. for the last hundred years. Among them you can find the following: Vinca, Gumelnica, Cucuteni - Trypillia. Scientists have explored many old settlements, some of them have got fortifications. Scientists have found some traces of very old metallurgy, which flourished between 5000-4500 BC on the Balkans, graves with golden treasures, and clay tables with inscriptions. These investigations have given an opportunity to make the reconstruction of "Civilization of Old Europe". The borders of this civilization ranged from Eastern Italy to the Dnipro river, from the Carpathians to the Aegean and Black Seas. But it seems, that 6000 years ago the East of Old Europe was an unknown land, a far away frontier for the inhabitants of the Danube river. The modern name of this far away land of Old Europe is Ukraine. We can translate this name into English, as "purlieu", an "outlying districts ". It was an enigmatic, rich and boundless territory Trypillians built comfortable two-storied houses. They lived on the upper floor, the ground floor was used in household aims. Several clay models of Trypillian houses and temples have been found, which help to reconstruct (reproduce) ancient architecture. An interesting collection of clay temples has been collected by Sergej Platonov of late. Literally, these finds corrected our notion about prehistoric architecture of Old Europe between 4200-3500 BC. One of them represented rectangular in plan building on platform, based on six strong pillars. The roof of the temple is semicircular, frontons are decorated with a crescent, which is similar to bull (or cow?) horns. The entrance to the temple is represented as an arc, decorated with five images of crescents. The walls are decorated with antropomorphous pillars and spiral snake symbols. The model was covered by red paint, and an incised ornament was enchased with white paint. On other models roofs were painted, it looks like they were covered by rush floor-mates An attempt to find analogies to such temples has given unexpected data. At the times of Trypillia culture the nearest region with similar rush-temples was located at Southern Mesopotamia. The remains of such houses were explored at El'Ubaid and have been known on the seals since the Uruk period (3900-3100BC). This temples are related with Nintur, incarnation of Ninkhursag, one of the most powerful goddesses of Sumer. In Southern Iraq such houses exist at present time. It is an interesting question, how and where Trypillians acquainted with the traditions of Sumer, their temples and deities Some other features of the civilization are the appearance and using of writing. Developed sign system, created by Trypillians, was the step to the creation of writing. Some from more than 300 signs (adout 12%), according to Taras Tkachuk, are similar to Sumerian: "star", "plant", "house". Trypillians used clay tokens - the same, as in Mesopotamia"
can you show us the evidence where are the pictures of these things??
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Interesting history,
Evidence for an apartheid-like social structure in early Anglo-Saxon England
Genetic Britain: How Roman, Viking and Anglo-Saxon Genes Make up the UK's DNA
These original Britons were subjugated by the Romans then displaced by an influx of Anglo Saxons from Germany and Holland in the sixth and seventh centuries AD. Later invasions by the Vikings and the Normans further altered the local population.
The Roman occupation of Britain had a profound impact on trade, culture and technology, but saw little in the way of actual immigration.
After the Roman withdrawal in around 400AD, Britain entered the Dark Ages – and found itself increasingly vulnerable to attack by outside forces.
Wave after wave of Europeans came to displace the native Britons. The three main tribes were the Angles from Angeln in northern Germany, the Saxons from Lower Saxony, and the Jutes from the Jutland Peninsular.
The study found remarkable genetic similarities between the two populations and concluded that a ‘mass migration event’ must have occurred in the Dark Ages. In other words, a flood of Anglo Saxons came to dominate the English gene pool, stopping short at the Welsh border
The Romans founded London, built roads, baths and aqueducts, overhauled trade and introduced coinage.
The Vikings brought with them words from Old Norse that remain in our language today – some of them tellingly aggressive (knife, ransack, die), some rather more elemental (husband, sky, bairn, get, call).
The Normans had arguably the greatest impact, establishing one of the oldest monarchical lines in the word, overhauling the political and legal systems, and fusing French and English words together, as well as kick-starting a thousand-year rivalry with the Old Enemy.
Mark G Thomas,1* Michael P.H Stumpf,2 and Heinrich Härke3
1Department of Biology, University College London, Wolfson House, 4 Stephenson Way
2Centre for Bioinformatics, Imperial College London, Wolfson Building,
3Department of Archaeology, School of Human and Environmental Sciences,
Fifteen generations marks the upper limit for the duration of an Anglo-Saxon/British apartheid-like social structure since, by assuming an intergenerational time of between 25 and 30 years, this is the approximate time span between the initial immigration in the middle of the fifth century and the laws of Alfred the Great (issued around AD 890), which do not contain any indications of legal status differences between Britons and Anglo-Saxons (Whitelock 1979).
Such a distinction is unlikely to have arisen in the seventh century, two centuries after the initial contact. It is much more likely to have originated in the immigration situation of the fifth and early sixth centuries. On the other hand, this ethnic distinction of two intermingling populations and its formalization in law cannot have survived for such a long period without some mechanism that perpetuated the distinction.
I want to ask Simple Girl and her Crew stay out of my thread.
I don't care about what you have to say this is a thread for me and Her Majesty's Grey Puppon Eating Chap AKA Watsonispleased, for us to debate Man to Man, toe to toe.
Stick to your thread you created.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Highly interesting story,
Slaves???
Not everyone was free to come and go as he or she liked. Some people were slaves or 'thralls'. Slaves did the hardest, dirtiest jobs. People could be born slaves. The child of a slave mother and father was a slave too, but the child of a slave mother and a free father was free. Many slaves were people captured in a Viking raid. Viking traders sold slaves in markets, but slave-trading in England was stopped in 1102.
The Aristocracy - The Anglo-Saxon territory was divided into seven separate kingdoms commonly referred to as the heptarchy. Each kingdom was ruled by a king, the king's sons who were called aethlings and the ruling nobility known as the eoldermen. (Anglo-Saxon village) The basic unit of land was called the hide which was enough land to support one family and varied in size from 40 acres to 4 square miles. Approximately one hundred hides formed the unit known as the 'hundred', and each village or shire contained many hundreds. (another Anglo-Saxon village) For each hundred, one leader known as the 'hundred eolder' was responsible for administration, justice, and supplying military troops, as well as, leading its forces. The office was not hereditary, but by the tenth century the office was selected from among a few outstanding families.
The thane, similar to the knight, stood at the lowest echelon of the aristocracy. Good service by a thane resulted in gifts, the granting of lands, and elevation to eolderman. Members of the clergy held the title of thane as they were considered one of 'God's thanes', and bishops generally held the position of eolderman.
The Middle Class - The middle class was divided into three main classes of freemen, also known as ceorls: The geneatas, a peasant aristocracy who paid rent to their overlord, the kotsetlas, and the geburs, or lower middle class. All ceorls had the right and duty to serve in the fyrd, which was the Anglo-Saxon military. Ceorls won promotion through economic prosperity or military service. If a ceorl possessed five hides of land, he became entitled to the rights of a thane, but could not be elevated to the position of thane or eolderman.
The lower class - At the lowest end of the social strata was the slave or bondsmen, also known as the theow. Although they were slaves or bondsmen, they were entitled to certain provisions, such as grain. The slaves were allowed to own property and could earn money in their spare time which allowed them to buy their freedom. When times were difficult people sold themselves into slavery to ensure they were provisioned.
The early Anglo-Saxon society was organized around clans or tribes and was centered around a system of reciprocity called comitatus. The eoldorman expected martial service and loyalty from his thanes, and the thanes expected protection and rewards from the lord. By the middle of the ninth century the royal family of Wessex was universally recognized as the English royal family and held a hereditary right to rule. Succession to the throne was not guaranteed as the witan, or council of leaders, had the right to choose the best successor from the members of the royal house.
The military organization - As stated above, the military organization was called the fyrd, which consisted of highly trained thanes chosen from each hundred. Thanes became 'professional' warriors because their position within the society depended upon it. In peace time the thanes had to serve one month out of every three in rotation, so there was always a sizeable force on call. Loyalty to a lord was the greatest virtue for the thane, and if their lord or king died in battle, his men were expected to die avenging his death, as it was considered dishonorable to leave the battlefield on which the military leader had been slain. Those who did were executed by their lord's successor for their disloyalty. The Fyrd also served as a police force when not at war.
Religion and the role of the church - (St Alpheges church) (St. Wereburg) Besides the spiritual functions of the church, the Church also fulfilled the functions of a 'civil service', and for the nobility, an educational system. The Church and the government needed men who could read and write in English and Latin to write letters and keep accounts. (illuminated manuscripts) The words 'cleric' and 'clerk' have the same origin, and every nobleman would have at least one priest to act as a secretary.
Economy - The economy of the early middle ages was not cash based. (Anglo-Saxon clothing) Even though coins were minted, their use was not widespread, and most goods were bartered. (jewelry and pottery) Trade relied upon transport to be effective, and water was the preferred method of transport. For this reason, the most successful markets were near rivers.
Slavery was an important part of the Anglo-Saxon economy. Almost all the slaves traded in the early middle ages were captured in raids or warfare. It seems to have been the practice to kill the leaders of the losing army and enslave the local villagers. The English conquest of Cornwall led to the enslavement of many of the indigenous Celts. At the Westminster Council of 1102ce, slavery was abolished.
David Wyatt, Ph.D. (2003) in History, Cardiff University, is the Co-ordinating Lecturer in History at Cardiff University’s Centre for Lifelong Learning.
Slaves and Warriors in Medieval Britain and Ireland,800-1200
Modern sensibilities have clouded historical views of slavery, perhaps more so than any other medieval social institution. Anachronistic economic rationales and notions about the progression of European civilisation have immeasurably distorted our view of slavery in the medieval context. As a result historians have focussed their efforts upon explaining the disappearance of this medieval institution rather than seeking to understand it. This book highlights the extreme cultural/social significance of slavery for the societies of medieval Britain and Ireland c. 800-1200. Concentrating upon the lifestyle, attitudes and motivations of the slave-holders and slave-raiders, it explores the violent activities and behavioural codes of Britain and Ireland’s warrior-centred societies, illustrating the extreme significance of the institution of slavery for constructions of power, ethnic identity and gender.
The Vikings in Ireland
The Vikings first attacked Ireland in 795. They looted monasteries. They also took women and children as slaves. However the Vikings were not only raiders. They were also traders and craftsmen. In the 9th century they founded Ireland's first towns, Dublin, Wexford, Cork and Limerick. They also gave Ireland its name, a combination of the Gaelic word Eire and the Viking word land. In time the Vikings settled down. They intermarried with the Irish and accepted Christianity.
Around 940 the great High King Brian Boru was born. At that time the Danes had conquered much of the kingdom of Munster. Brian defeated them in several battles. In 968 he recaptured Cashel, the capital of Munster. After 976 Brian was king of Munster and in 1002 he became the High King of Ireland. However in 1014 Leinster, the people of Dublin and the Danes joined forces against him. Brian fought and defeated them at the battle of Clontarf on 23 April 1014, although he was killed himself. This victory ended the Viking threat to Ireland.
The Vikings in Iceland
The first people to settle in Iceland were probably Irish monks who came in the 8th century. However in the 9th century they were driven out by Vikings.
According to tradition the first Viking to discover Iceland was a man named Naddoddur who got lost while on his way to the Faeroes. Following him a Swede named Gardar Svavarsson circumnavigated Iceland about 860. However the first Viking attempt to settle was by a Norwegian named Floki Vilgeroason. He landed in the northwest but a severe winter killed his domestic animals and he sailed back to Norway. However he gave the land its name. He called it Iceland.
Then in the late 9th century many settlers came to Iceland from Norway and the Viking colonies in the British Isles. A Norwegian named Ingolfur Arnarson led them. He sailed with his family, slaves and animals.
When he sighted Iceland Ingolfur dedicated his wooden posts to his gods then threw them overboard. He vowed to settle at the place where the sea washed them up. He then explored Iceland. When the posts were found in the southwest Ingolfur and his household settled there. He called the place Reykjavik, meaning Smokey bay. Many other Vikings followed him to Iceland.
The land was free to whoever wanted it. A man could claim as much land as he could light fires around in one day while a woman could claim as much land as she could lead a heifer round in one day.
There were very good fishing grounds around Iceland and the land was well suited to sheep. Many Vikings brought flocks with them and soon sheep became a major Icelandic industry. The population of Iceland soared. By about 930 there were about 60,000 people living in Iceland.
The Peasant's Life.
Villages consisted of from 10-60 families living in rough huts on dirt floors, with no chimneys or windows. Often, one end of the hut was given over to storing livestock. Furnishings were sparse; three legged stools, a trestle table, beds on the floor softened with straw or leaves. The peasant diet was mainly porridge, cheese, black bread, and a few home-grown vegetables.
Peasants had a hard life, but they did not work on Sundays or on the frequent saints' days, and they could go to nearby fairs and markets. The lot of serfs was much harsher.
The Serf's Life.
Although not technically a slave, a serf was bound to a lord for life. He could own no property and needed the lord's permission to marry. Under no circumstance could a serf leave the land without the lord's permission unless he chose to run away. If he ran to a town and managed to stay there for a year and a day, he was a free man. However, the serf did have rights. He could not be displaced if the manor changed hands. He could not be required to fight, and he was entitled to the protection of the lord.
Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
What I find Ironic is the sub-Saharan African DNA found in ancient European remains LOL Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
quote:Originally posted by adrianne: can you show us the evidence where are the pictures of these things??
I would show you some things, but this thread really isn't about southeastern Europe. I was just responding to your comments about Europe never having had any civilizations.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
LOL, an Indutrialized, High I.Q White Army with Guns was wiped out by Spear Chuckers..
Isandhlwana, 1879.
The battle at Isandhlwana. The battle that took place at Isandhlwana, which is now Durban in South Africa, was part of a larger colonial campaign that the British Empire fought during the 19th century in Africa. African natives, known as the Zulus, had opposed the British occupation and scored a major victory when British troops, in response to the Zulu nation ignoring an ultimatum, marched on the capital of Ulundi. A force of some 25,000 Zulu warriors camped in wait for one of the marching British columns. The Zulus were well prepared for the battle, they had even managed to acquire a number of guns which they used to fire on the British as they marched. The British were also well prepared, and the Zulu trap was spotted by a British scout. Recognising that their opportunity was now or never, the Zulu warriors, realising they had been discovered, marched quickly on the British column. Being lightly armed and armoured, the Zulus moved quickly and were able to surround the British positions as they were adopting defensive formations. Determined waves of Zulu warriors eventually forced a hand-to-hand engagement which overwhelmed the British troops. Some 1000 British and 2000 Zulus died after the Zulu forces cut off the line of retreat back to Rorkes Drift. Once again it is interesting to consider the historical context and the way that this battle is often discussed in the British mainstream. The fact that the colours of the 24th regiment (the British unit that fought in the battle) were not captured by the enemy and were recovered after being washed up down stream from a river where it is surmised that a Lt. Coghill died defending the banner is often seen as a coded victory for the honour of the British army. What actually happened to the Regimental colours is a matter of historical interpretation as not a single soldier survived to tell the tale. Ultimately the Zulus were defeated when they pushed on to Rorkes Drift as a precursor to an invasion of the land occupied by European settlers in Natal. They were finally defeated at Ulundi when well-drilled British troops beat back a similar Zulu attack.
Spurious counter argument...
Britain conquered the Zulu capital at Ulundi soon after the battle at Isandhlwana.
This is true, but it cannot paper over the cracks of the fact that an entire column of British troops were wiped out.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: There is no logic to this thread calling white northern europeans (particularly the ethnic-british) as savages when they colonised Africa.
If northern europeans were so primitive or savage how did they manage to conquer virtually the whole of Africa?
When the Europeans arrived with artillary, guns etc the native sub-saharan africans were living in mud huts with wooden spears.
This is how 139 british soldiers managed to defeat and defend their post from 4,000+ Zulus in the Battle of Rorke's Drift. The Zulus were primitive savages in rags with spears, while the British were armed with guns, armour, ammo and sophisticated equipment.
Basically afrocentrism stems from a self-hatred...blacks know their history nowhere compares to europeans so they invent a pseudo-history.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Still full of surprises,
Handwriting is an individualistic craft and each scribe writes a little differently. However, over time the forms of letters and the style of writing have changed. Different styles have also developed for particular purposes, so that even in the same time and place, the handwriting of a majestic book of church liturgy, designed for reading aloud in solemn performance, may be different to that of a more modest book, and to that of a royal charter, and to that of a scribe in a court of law, and to that of a tired and irritable university student.
Two examples from one document showing the variations in hands between two scribes writing in essentially the same script, Caroline minuscule. The book is an 11th century manuscript, the Harley Psalter (British Library, Harley 603), by permission of the British Library.
Despite the variations, there are recognisable patterns of change which have occurred over time as writing has evolved. Styles of writing can be categorised into named scripts which can be identified as to their time and place of origin. Because of the natural variation and fluid relationships between these products of individual human creativity, the classification and nomenclature of scripts is somewhat variable. There are trends, developments of very different general categories of script, periods of diversification and periods of consolidation of styles. Change has sometimes occurred rapidly and sometimes slowly.
(See Bischoff 1990, also Brown 1990, also Jackson 1981, also Thompson 1912.)
The history of script changes reflects aspects of the history of the literate world. They are of interest not only to those who have a fascination for the changing shapes of letters, but to those with a more general interest in the history of social and cultural processes.
The scripts used by the Romans were used throughout the Empire and formed the basis for all later developments. After the fall of the Empire, surviving and reviving centres of literacy developed a diversity of scripts based on the Roman model. The script known as Caroline minuscule was developed in the revival of literacy and Classical culture which occurred under the Emperor Charlemagne. This became a standard across much of literate Europe by the 10th century. A new wave of diversification began in northern France and the Low Countries in the 11th century, resulting in the development of the large and diverse family of scripts known as Gothic. In the Renaissance period in Italy, a return to aspects of Classical culture included the revival of what were perceived as Classical scripts. This era represented the end of manuscript book production to any significant degree, although a range of stylised hands for document production remained in use.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Jari you're a failre. I've shown great British structures and artworks from the Neolithic and Bronze Age, and I could go on. There are hundreds of stone circles, mounds, brochs, hill-forts etc. There are bronze and iron weapons of exquisite workmanship, and yet finer items in gold, including cups, torcs and ceremonial capes.
Yet way more exists, naturally in the vast Sub-Saharan region of the African continent alone.
quote:
Strange how they look strikingly similar to much older Nile African artifacts.
^ The last is a Nubian dagger. Of course due to the close resemblances slow minds like Simpleton would assume direct "influence". LOL
But I forgot, you again you don't consider Egyptians, Nubians, and other northeast Africans as 'black' because they don't live below the Sahara. LOL Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Read all of the above^
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''I want you to prove they were not'' ====
I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
didnt say they had no civilizations , i said they never invented their own,
i would like to see pictures
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
quote:Some other features of the civilization are the appearance and using of writing. Developed sign system, created by Trypillians, was the step to the creation of writing. Some from more than 300 signs (adout 12%), according to Taras Tkachuk, are similar to Sumerian: "star", "plant", "house". Trypillians used clay tokens - the same, as in Mesopotamia.
Romans introduced written scripture.
Stop the fantasies!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ The Tripillya culture is Neolithic and precedes Rome by millennia. However the script that the Romans introduced to the rest of Europe is derived from Greek and Etruscan which originates from the Near East. Even the Neolithic culture of Tripillia is Near Eastern in origin so.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglophile_Pyramidiot: ''I want you to prove they were not'' ====
I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
The first and perhaps only time I agree with you Anglophile. You are correct that the Celts did have civilization and advanced culture long before Roman contact. I'm not Jari so I have never bashed northern European cultures, but I do point out the common bias many north Europeans tend to have to look to Rome and Greece for cultural heritage and not their own Celtic or Germanic ancestry.
However your are deeply mistaken if you think you can white-wash the history of the rest of the world. Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
PhotoBucket indeed, as I said when it first posted by the Tin Isles man back in January, Is this the best you can do, post a snippet from an ethnocentric enthusiast non-academic 1931 British Israelite source Colquhoun's Our Descent from Israel Proved by Cumulative [non-] Evidence? Talk about cranks and loons, your choice of source debunks itself, no matter who here swallows it up as valid academia.
For those who do I highly suggest they go read it here.
Enter "ancient inhabitants" in the Search inside box or save yourself the trouble and look at the table of contents.
For an accurate popular account of Ireland noting the current Irish back to the bronze age were not the indigenees get a hold of the following DVD
In search of ancient Ireland a co-production of Thirteen/WNET New York New York: PBS Home Video; Burbank, Calif.: Warner Home Video, 2003
or read this serious book
Carmel McCaffrey & Leo Eaton In search of ancient Ireland: the origins of the Irish from neolithic times to the coming of the English Chicago: New Amsterdam Books, 2002
Either choice will serve you better than the sloppy scholarship of cracker Eurocentricism. "What cracker is this same that deafes our eares with this abundance of superfluous breath?" Shakespeare King John, Act II, Scene 1 1594
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
Care to give a direct contextual quote from Caesar on this along with its complete academic citation.
Posted by adrianne (Member # 10761) on :
Care to give a direct contextual quote from Caesar on this along with its complete academic citation.
quote: Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
lol thats what i was thinking
Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
quote:Some other features of the civilization are the appearance and using of writing. Developed sign system, created by Trypillians, was the step to the creation of writing. Some from more than 300 signs (adout 12%), according to Taras Tkachuk, are similar to Sumerian: "star", "plant", "house". Trypillians used clay tokens - the same, as in Mesopotamia.
Romans introduced written scripture.
Stop the fantasies!
There's no fantasies here. The Tartarian tablets of Romania predate Sumerian proto-symbols by 1000 years. The Tartaria symbols are virtually identical to the Sumerian symbols.
The two compared despite 1000 years separating the two:
Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
^Jari already made a request directed especially at you to go to YOUR thread. Stop running, we're waiting.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
This thread was not created to be serious but for me to give Sir.Watson and his side kick Tinman a taste of their own medicine. I don't have a problem with Northern European culture.
If Sir.Watson wants more I have more for his Grey Puppon arse.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Anglophile_Pyramidiot: ''I want you to prove they were not'' ====
I've already done this before on many other forums. lets go to my photobucket again then...
The popular idea that the ancestors of the British were painted savages has no foundation in fact. It was a custom of the Picts and other branches of the Celtic and Gothic nations to make themselves look terrible in war, from whence came the Roman term 'savage'. The 'painting' was in reality tattooing
Far from these ancestral Britons having been mere painted savages, roaming wild in the woods as we are imaginatively told in most of the modern histories, they are now, on the contrary, as disclosed by newly found historical facts given by Professor Waddell, known to have been, from the very first grounding of their galley keels upon these shores, over a millennium and a half before the Christian era, a literate race, pioneers of civilization. The universally held belief that the mixed race has prevailed during many centuries; this belief, however, is now fading out of the scientific mind and giving place to the exact opposite. Britons, Celts, Gaels, Anglo-Saxons, Danes and Normans when warring with each other were kinsmen shedding kindred blood.
- "Celt, Druid and Culdee" (1973) by Isabel Hill Elder
Basically Elder compiled all the sources proving the indigenous pre-Roman British were never savages. When the Romans arrived they found roads, advanced agriculture, universities (Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books) etc.
The first and perhaps only time I agree with you Anglophile. You are correct that the Celts did have civilization and advanced culture long before Roman contact. I'm not Jari so I have never bashed northern European cultures, but I do point out the common bias many north Europeans tend to have to look to Rome and Greece for cultural heritage and not their own Celtic or Germanic ancestry.
However your are deeply mistaken if you think you can white-wash the history of the rest of the world.
Posted by A Simple Girl (Member # 18316) on :
Running from what? You and thimble head?lol.....I think I have everything under control.
quote: ^Jari already made a request directed especially at you to go to YOUR thread. Stop running, we're waiting.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Standardized designs identified on 60,000-year-old water containers By Bruce Bower March 1, 2010 Web edition : 3:04 pm
Long before human communication evolved into incessant tapping on computer keys, people scratched on eggshells.
Don’t laugh—researchers say a cache of ostrich eggshells engraved with geometric designs demonstrates the existence of a symbolic communication system around 60,000 years ago among African hunter-gatherers.
The unusually large sample of 270 engraved eggshell fragments, mostly excavated over the past several years at Diepkloof Rock Shelter in South Africa, displays two standard design patterns, according to a team led by archaeologist Pierre-Jean Texier of the University of Bordeaux 1 in Talence, France. Each pattern enjoyed its own heyday between approximately 65,000 and 55,000 years ago, the investigators report in a paper to be published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Researchers already knew that the Howiesons Poort culture, which engraved the eggshells, engaged in other symbolic practices, such as engraving designs into pieces of pigment, that were considered to have been crucial advances in human behavioral evolution. But the Diepkloof finds represent the first archaeological sample large enough to demonstrate that Stone Age people created design traditions, at least in their engravings, Texier says.
Evidence of intentionally produced holes in several Diepkloof eggshells indicates that ancient people made what amounted to canteens out of them, a practice that researchers have documented among modern hunter-gatherers in southern Africa.
The engraved patterns probably identified the eggshells as the property of certain groups or communities, Texier proposes.
“The Diepkloof engravings were clearly made for visual display and recognized as such by a large audience comprising members of a community, and probably members of related communities,” comments University of Bordeaux 1 archaeologist Francesco d’Errico, who was not involved in the new study.
D’Errico participated in the recent unearthing of 13 pieces of engraved pigment at South Africa’s Blombos Cave dating to between 100,000 and 75,000 years ago. Along with perforated sea shells and other personal ornaments previously excavated in Africa and the Middle East, these discoveries show that items holding symbolic meaning were made more than 60,000 years ago by both modern humans and Neandertals.
Even more exciting, according to archaeologist Curtis Marean of Arizona State University in Tempe, is the presence of drinking spouts in the South African eggshells. Water containers opened a new world of travel across arid regions for ancient people, he notes.
“The ability to carry and store water is a breakthrough technological advance, and here we have excellent evidence for it very early,” Marean says. “Wow!”
Eggshell fragments from the oldest sediment layers at Diepkloof display a hatched-band motif. These engravings consist of two long, parallel lines intersected by varying numbers of short lines. Some specimens contain one hatched band, while others display remnants of two or three. Engravers always fashioned parallel lines first and then inserted regularly spaced intersecting lines, Texier says.
Eggshells from younger soil layers at Diepkloof contain patterns consisting of deeply engraved, parallel lines that sometimes converge or intersect. One eggshell fragment from these layers exhibits a different pattern—slightly curved horizontal lines that cross a central, vertical line.
Of the many Howiesons Poort sites in southern Africa that have yielded ostrich eggshells, only Diepkloof shows evidence of stylistic engraving traditions, Texier says.
The point is simple Africans have been doing that sort of thing for countless millenium
Out of Africa
Well actually, according to a growing number of experts, it did happen sooner. A lot sooner. In fact, there’s evidence that the beginnings of cultural modernity may have occurred at least seventy-five thousand years ago. It’s just that it wasn’t in Europe that these stirrings of modernity first showed up, but in South Africa. In recent years, excavations at two important sites on the coastline of South Africa – Howieson’s Poort and Blombos Cave – have uncovered startling new evidence of symbolic behavior by our human ancestors a full thirty-five thousand years before the Upper Paleolithic revolution in Europe. Some of the findings include engraved ostrich eggshells and perforated shells that were probably used as personal ornaments, but the most striking treasure unearthed to date has been one particular piece of ochre with a series of complex cross-hatched lines engraved into it.[1] [Figure 3.] These lines, in the view of archaeologists Renfrew and Mellars “seem certainly to be deliberate patterning” and represent “the earliest unambiguous forms of abstract ‘art’ so far recorded,” and, along with the other findings, suggest that “the human revolution developed first in Africa … between 150,000 and 70,000 years ago.”[2] In fact, some additional engraved pieces have been found that are even older, leading Mellars to assert that “there is now no question that explicitly symbolic behavior was taking place by 100,000 years ago or earlier. http://jeremylent.wordpress.com/ Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''Care to give a direct contextual quote from Caesar on this along with its complete academic citation'' ==========
Caesar. de Bell. Gal. lib. vi.
According to Caesar the Druids had to memorise tens of thousands of verses. They read these and stored them in their memory, but did not learn how to write because of their superior memory power.
Now tens of thousands of verses would required thousands of books and obviously those books were stored in libraries.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''Is this the best you can do'' ====
Gold and Tin Mining
The British Isles were renowed in classical antiquity for being a major source for tin mining, but also gold.
According to Herodotus, gold sat in large quantaties 'in the far north'
Ancient Greek and Roman literature is filled with descriptions of the northern people of Europe (especially the Celts of Britain) who had large sums of gold.
Early Roman writers believed that the ancient Celts had large quantities of gold. Virgil wrote on the Celts as having wore golden jewellery: “…resplendent in their striped cloaks, and their white necks are circled with gold.” (Aeneid, 8. 658). The Greek historian and philosopher Dio Chrysostom in the 1st century AD wrote the following in his Oratation regarding the Celts:
“It is they (the Druids) who command, and kings on thrones of gold, dwelling in splendid palaces, are but their ministers, and the servants of their thoughts.”
-Oratation, 49
Celtic kings in gold palaces, hardly a description of 'savages'...
Farming
At Knap of Howar on the Orkney Island of Papa Westray, lies the “oldest preserved farmhouse in Northern Europe”, dating concluded it was occupied from atleast 3500BC.
In 2001, in Scotland a “Neolithic” or “New Stone Age” farmhouse was discovered and reported in The Times newspaper:
“The remains of a Stone Age farmhouse, built more than 1,000 years before the pyramidshave been uncovered by archaeologists in a cornfield in Perthshire (Scotland). Dr Barclay said the size and built strength of the farmhouse indicated that the Neolithic people were skilled engineers. “This is no shack that somebody has thrown up. It is an enormous, very sophisticated piece of engineering, built to last. The only other evidence we had was of much smaller, lighter structures. This proves that the Neolithic people were engineers as skilled and intelligent as modern man.”
- The Times, 7/9/01
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
I don't see any contextual quote of Caesar's own words. Is that because like other oral tradition societies they had "talking books," i.e., djeli, pre-mishna Hebrew sages, etc., and that's all he had to tell us about?
"(Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books)" is a lie fabricated by cracker Eurocentricism.
This will not be a back and forth debate. You are a pyramidiot not worth the time of anyone interested in serious scholarship of accurate historiography. I would prove myself a fool were I to take further notice of you.
Mining is no superior technological craft. Iron ore was mined in Swaziland minimally 41,000 years ago and let's hope by Roman times farming was going on since it was introduced into Europe a good 6000 years earlier. At the time of your farmhouses Soninke were civilly engineering 400 stone towns with perfect street plans in southeast Mauritania.
Quit clowning. No high civilization involved. This is basic human culture. Your people are no better than any people in Africa either then or now. Over it.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''Care to give a direct contextual quote from Caesar on this along with its complete academic citation'' ==========
Caesar. de Bell. Gal. lib. vi.
According to Caesar the Druids had to memorise tens of thousands of verses. They read these and stored them in their memory, but did not learn how to write because of their superior memory power.
Now tens of thousands of verses would required thousands of books and obviously those books were stored in libraries.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
quote:Some other features of the civilization are the appearance and using of writing. Developed sign system, created by Trypillians, was the step to the creation of writing. Some from more than 300 signs (adout 12%), according to Taras Tkachuk, are similar to Sumerian: "star", "plant", "house". Trypillians used clay tokens - the same, as in Mesopotamia.
Romans introduced written scripture.
Stop the fantasies!
There's no fantasies here. The Tartarian tablets of Romania predate Sumerian proto-symbols by 1000 years. The Tartaria symbols are virtually identical to the Sumerian symbols.
The two compared despite 1000 years separating the two:
You need to read the previous post. To see the different light of the composition.
Has this "script" been decoded?
Thanks for your time.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ The Tripillya culture is Neolithic and precedes Rome by millennia. However the script that the Romans introduced to the rest of Europe is derived from Greek and Etruscan which originates from the Near East. Even the Neolithic culture of Tripillia is Near Eastern in origin so.
I know about this Djehuti, but I have posted additional information prior to this.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Sorry Jari. Get back to having your fun.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: a lie fabricated by cracker Eurocentricism.
these honkeys need to be more scholarli
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''Is this the best you can do'' ====
Gold and Tin Mining
The British Isles were renowed in classical antiquity for being a major source for tin mining, but also gold.
According to Herodotus, gold sat in large quantaties 'in the far north'
Ancient Greek and Roman literature is filled with descriptions of the northern people of Europe (especially the Celts of Britain) who had large sums of gold.
Early Roman writers believed that the ancient Celts had large quantities of gold. Virgil wrote on the Celts as having wore golden jewellery: “…resplendent in their striped cloaks, and their white necks are circled with gold.” (Aeneid, 8. 658). The Greek historian and philosopher Dio Chrysostom in the 1st century AD wrote the following in his Oratation regarding the Celts:
“It is they (the Druids) who command, and kings on thrones of gold, dwelling in splendid palaces, are but their ministers, and the servants of their thoughts.”
-Oratation, 49
Celtic kings in gold palaces, hardly a description of 'savages'...
Farming
At Knap of Howar on the Orkney Island of Papa Westray, lies the “oldest preserved farmhouse in Northern Europe”, dating concluded it was occupied from atleast 3500BC.
In 2001, in Scotland a “Neolithic” or “New Stone Age” farmhouse was discovered and reported in The Times newspaper:
“The remains of a Stone Age farmhouse, built more than 1,000 years before the pyramidshave been uncovered by archaeologists in a cornfield in Perthshire (Scotland). Dr Barclay said the size and built strength of the farmhouse indicated that the Neolithic people were skilled engineers. “This is no shack that somebody has thrown up. It is an enormous, very sophisticated piece of engineering, built to last. The only other evidence we had was of much smaller, lighter structures. This proves that the Neolithic people were engineers as skilled and intelligent as modern man.”
- The Times, 7/9/01
What I have learned during my schooldays is that Romans entered Europe and saw other Europeans (from the North) as barbarians.
I also wonder, how did they live before this structures were designed?
It as also known that Cicero a Roman advisor, statesman and lawyer; badly adviced to buy British slave. Because the were too stupid to actually learn quickly.
From the writhing of some authors, they have a tendency to "romancize" the whole thing.
The Dolaucothi Gold Mine
It’s guaranteed you’ll have a problem—keeping your eyes on the A482 road up the Cothi Valley—the scenery is just too distracting. The road winds between unpopulated high green hills and glides between wooded valleys.
The Dolaucothi Gold Mines, a scheduled ancient monument, are located in this scenic setting just outside the village of Pumsaint.
Archaeologists "believe" that mining took place here as early as the Bronze Age.
The gold was close to the surface and often found in crevasses.
They know the Romans took out over ½ million ton of rock, leaving behind chasms and pits when they mined gold veins.
Rolling ground and humps in the landscape are a result of land that was dumped when the mines were excavated.
At first the mine was under the Roman military government, then went into private ownership. Gold was sent to the Roman mints after the emperor took his 50% cut.
The Romans used slaves rather than explosives to work the mine. The slaves spent their days hammering, chiseling and wedging through hard rock to get at the rim-like veins in the hills.
The Romans left in the 4th century, leaving barracks, bathhouses and other town remains—they’d built a fort above the river Cothi where it meets its western tributary.
Things were quiet until the 1930’s when a shaft was sunk to 480 ft. Mining didn’t last long and things were shut down for good until the National Trust took over the site. Many of the tunnels and sublevels are now cut off, due to water flooding them.
A visitor can take two tours of the mines: the Roman Tour and an Underground Tour. Each lasts one hour and is physically demanding. There are 75 steps to climb up the hillside to one of the mined caverns, but the view makes the climb worthwhile. Although there’s not a lot to see in the cavern, it does give you a picture of what it would be like to spend your days in this dark, dank place. The underground tour is not for those with claustrophobia. A note for parents bringing their children along—those under five are not allowed on the tours.
1930’s mining machinery from another site is on display. If you’re not physically able to go on the tours, you can still learn all the details and mining history from the informative exhibition and the AV presentation.
The Dolaucothi Estate has lots of waymarked walks. The Visitor Centre and shop have all the details. There’s a local history centre in the village of Pumsaint.
The village of Pumsaint belongs to the National Trust. The Red Kite Visitor Centre is located in the Old Coach House. There are displays on the oak woodlands, the traditional nesting place of the red kite. The red kite almost became extinct last century when they were considered vermin and eradicated in Scotland and England. Fortunately, they survived in Wales in small numbers and are now on the way back from extinction.
Source: National Trust.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
^Typo romancize = romanticize
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: a lie fabricated by cracker Eurocentricism.
these honkeys need to be more scholarli
Evidence for an apartheid-like social structure in early Anglo-Saxon England
Genetic Britain: How Roman, Viking and Anglo-Saxon Genes Make up the UK's DNA
These original Britons were subjugated by the Romans then displaced by an influx of Anglo Saxons from Germany and Holland in the sixth and seventh centuries AD.
Later invasions by the Vikings and the Normans further altered the local population.
The Roman occupation of Britain had a profound impact on trade, culture and technology, but saw little in the way of actual immigration.
After the Roman withdrawal in around 400AD, Britain entered the Dark Ages – and found itself increasingly vulnerable to attack by outside forces.
Wave after wave of Europeans came to displace the native Britons.
The three main tribes were the Angles from Angeln in northern Germany, the Saxons from Lower Saxony, and the Jutes from the Jutland Peninsular.
The study found remarkable genetic similarities between the two populations and concluded that a ‘mass migration event’ must have occurred in the Dark Ages. In other words, a flood of Anglo Saxons came to dominate the English gene pool, stopping short at the Welsh border
The Romans founded London, built roads, baths and aqueducts, overhauled trade and introduced coinage.
The Vikings brought with them words from Old Norse that remain in our language today – some of them tellingly aggressive (knife, ransack, die), some rather more elemental (husband, sky, bairn, get, call).
The Normans had arguably the greatest impact, establishing one of the oldest monarchical lines in the word, overhauling the political and legal systems, and fusing French and English words together, as well as kick-starting a thousand-year rivalry with the Old Enemy.
Mark G Thomas,1* Michael P.H Stumpf,2 and Heinrich Härke3
1Department of Biology, University College London, Wolfson House, 4 Stephenson Way
2Centre for Bioinformatics, Imperial College London, Wolfson Building,
3Department of Archaeology, School of Human and Environmental Sciences,
Fifteen generations marks the upper limit for the duration of an Anglo-Saxon/British apartheid-like social structure since, by assuming an intergenerational time of between 25 and 30 years, this is the approximate time span between the initial immigration in the middle of the fifth century and the laws of Alfred the Great (issued around AD 890), which do not contain any indications of legal status differences between Britons and Anglo-Saxons (Whitelock 1979).
Such a distinction is unlikely to have arisen in the seventh century, two centuries after the initial contact. It is much more likely to have originated in the immigration situation of the fifth and early sixth centuries. On the other hand, this ethnic distinction of two intermingling populations and its formalization in law cannot have survived for such a long period without some mechanism that perpetuated the distinction.
Jari, dear... For your information I've never eaten Grey Puppon, or even *Poupon*, in my life. Your calumnies and gratuitous insults are pathetic. The most savage of my remote ancestors were surely more civil than you know how to be.
If you cannot appreciate and admit the superior artistry of the objects shown, especially from the Celtic Iron Age, then that speaks more of your cultural bias and philistinism than anything else. As I say, I don't particularly care about ignorant opinion, however. You're just a sore loser.
Ancient Britain achieved greater things than most sub-Saharan African cutures ever did. It did so long before it even got into its stride as a civilization in medieval times, and none of this owed anything to the Greeks or Romans. Show me the sub-saharan Salisbury Cathedral or Wilton Diptych, or name the black Chaucer, William Ockham or Duns Scotus of equivalent age. That will impress me.
You alleged that Britons were nomads here, you forgetful fool> 'Admit it without Roman and Greek Subjugation your people were Barbaric nomads without a pot to piss in...' Nomads we were not, and as I have shown, we had some very posh pots! We were never subjects to the Greeks, and sizeable portions of the British Isles were never taken by the Romans either (namely Scotland and Ireland).
You also suggested, previously that Britons owed something to Indians, which is another laugh. How many miles of railway did India lay down in England? How many English widows were saved from being burned alive at the husband's funerals by well-meaning Hindus? Please...
I'm perfectly proud of my UK heritage, but I also happen to be interested in ancient Egypt, and it's none of your business if I choose to use an Egyptian name. Ra, if he existed, might be moderately satisfied by the endeavour of defending modern Egyptians from the slanders of afrocentrists who want to cast them as impostors, and pretend that the ancien Egyptians were negroes.
I don't pretend to descend from Egyptians, despite the fact that the Scots have an ancient legend to that effect (that of Scota, who was a mythical wandering Egyptian princess), so I could so-pretend if I was of a romantic bent. There are no time-honoured legends linking royal Egyptians to black west Africans, as far as I'm aware. Not that west Africans had chroniclers to set down their stories, unlike the medieval Scots, who had Walter Bower, among others.
Britons progressed, Africans did not. Black Africa seldom even came up to the level of Islamic Egypt, which is where the oldest universities were established, and where great architecture continued to be raised. Nothing in black Africa compares to the Mameluk mosques of Cairo, for instance.
Modern African politicians shamelessly embezzling western aid money while their people suffer- this quite adequately reveals the inherent honour of the African! There are 100,000-200,000 child-sildiers in modern Africa. Is it whites who are conscripting them?
The Zulus were brave warriors, true, but they fought with spears, wrote nothing, and lived in round huts with dirt floors, such as Britons had abandoned two thousand years previously. Left alone would the Zulus ever have invented steam engines or bolt-action rifles? I doubt it! They were less advanced, in the nineteenth century AD, than were the Celts of several century BC. Who can vouch for how fragrant they were after spending the day with cattle or running to battle? Were there public baths in Zululand? Was there a Zulu William Lever? Did a philanthropic Zulu soap factory owner ever build a beautiful little town for his workers? I think not.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Ive watched some of your video, I like how you are trying to play the victim. Why don't you post some of the replies that made me insult your ancestors. From day one you have insulted my ancestors and other Africans time and time again despite countless posters here provinding evidence of sophisticated culture in Africa.
If Ausar had not deleted that thread I Could have posted what you wrote in the Civilization thread, but I will be making a counted video with your racist replies and a explanation.
Huh, what a drag now I have to make a video, Im supposed to be on my break.
I don't feel like doing this sh@t..
Oh well.. Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Good work Takruri!!
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: I don't see any contextual quote of Caesar's own words. Is that because like other oral tradition societies they had "talking books," i.e., djeli, pre-mishna Hebrew sages, etc., and that's all he had to tell us about?
"(Csesar wrote the Druids had libraries of over 20,000 books)" is a lie fabricated by cracker Eurocentricism.
This will not be a back and forth debate. You are a pyramidiot not worth the time of anyone interested in serious scholarship of accurate historiography. I would prove myself a fool were I to take further notice of you.
Mining is no superior technological craft. Iron ore was mined in Swaziland minimally 41,000 years ago and let's hope by Roman times farming was going on since it was introduced into Europe a good 6000 years earlier. At the time of your farmhouses Soninke were civilly engineering 400 stone towns with perfect street plans in southeast Mauritania.
Quit clowning. No high civilization involved. This is basic human culture. Your people are no better than any people in Africa either then or now. Over it.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''Care to give a direct contextual quote from Caesar on this along with its complete academic citation'' ==========
Caesar. de Bell. Gal. lib. vi.
According to Caesar the Druids had to memorise tens of thousands of verses. They read these and stored them in their memory, but did not learn how to write because of their superior memory power.
Now tens of thousands of verses would required thousands of books and obviously those books were stored in libraries.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Excuse the non impartial biased cheer-leading but Kick his Jeri kick his Azz kick his AZZ!!!
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Ive watched some of your video, I like how you are trying to play the victim. Why don't you post some of the replies that made me insult your ancestors. From day one you have insulted my ancestors and other Africans time and time again despite countless posters here provinding evidence of sophisticated culture in Africa.
If Ausar had not deleted that thread I Could have posted what you wrote in the Civilization thread, but I will be making a counted video with your racist replies and a explanation.
Huh, what a drag now I have to make a video, Im supposed to be on my break.
I don't feel like doing this sh@t..
Oh well..
No one made you insult my ancestors, you took it upon yourself to do that. It pissed you off because you could not name an African equivalent to some of the illustrious early Europeans who have been listed. You thought you could take it out on the ancient Britons, calling them 'savages of savages'. In fact they turn out to have been quite a cultured and spiritual lot, great farmers, warriors, engineers, and artists and no strangers to soap. I really think we ought to draw a line under this as all this acrimony profits no-one.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ No Rahotep what pisses me off is people always trying to imply that anything great in Africa was the result of Eurasian invaders, Arabs, Europeans, anyone except Africans.
Despite countless posters provinding evidence you keep on insisting that "Nubia is a colony" "Ethiopia was a result of Arab or Semites" You insulted the Lip Plate Ethiopians, Claimed Kilwa and Mogudishu was created by Persians and Arabs, so on and so on.
I actually do believe the Romans were white and I do believe that Ancient Britons had an advanced culture, but I wanted to give you a taste of your own medicine by continuing to claim your people were savages no matter how much evidence you provided I kept on dismissing it, and claiming Greece and Rome were not white or Europeans despite the obvious.
If I knew you would have gotten this upset I prob. would have left well enough alone after Ausar deleted the other thread, but you know what Im glad, Now you know how it feels to have your people degraded and insulted and all their contributions dismissed.
Im going to make a video response and we can draw the line from here.
Im not an Afrocentric at all. Ask Asante how I feel about slave trading African Empires.
Posted by asante (Member # 18532) on :
^^^^^^
It is true jari is not afro centric he actually hates african yet he still makes threads showing how great african culture is lmao You are one confused oreo jari
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
I speak as I find. I can't think of any great architectural monuments in Nubia that predate the period of Egyptian influence. If you show me them, I will acknowledge the fact. It seems to be a matter of historical record that Kilwa and Mogadishu were founded by Persians. I have not denied the sophistication of Yoruba and certain Nok artifacts, and there does seem to have been more going on in that corner of Africa than I imagined.
It's an accident of birth what colour one is, and who one's ancestors were, so no basis for any kind of chauvinism. It doesn't mean one can't judge historical cultures against each other. Cultural relativism is a way of making excuses for backwardness. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an admirable African in part because she doesn't feel obliged to accept the detrimental baggage from her own heritage, and is able to embrace the positive aspects of western civilization and modernity.
I'm disgusted by the ideas of head-hunting, human sacrifice and slave-taking whoever did it, so clearly I would not defend every aspect of ancient European culture. (That said, I doubt the Celtic religions were as bloodthirsty as the Romans made out. Many times more people were killed in the Roman arenas than ever were on Druidic altars). Slavery has been a shameful feature of otherwise-great civilizations all over the world. Peoples as advanced as the Carthaginians were said to resort to human sacrifice.
Posted by asante (Member # 18532) on :
^^^ come on rahotep the ancient egyptians were more related to other africans not to asians or europeans END OF STORY
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Jari, dear... For your information I've never eaten Grey Puppon, or even *Poupon*, in my life. Your calumnies and gratuitous insults are pathetic. The most savage of my remote ancestors were surely more civil than you know how to be.
If you cannot appreciate and admit the superior artistry of the objects shown, especially from the Celtic Iron Age, then that speaks more of your cultural bias and philistinism than anything else. As I say, I don't particularly care about ignorant opinion, however. You're just a sore loser.
Ancient Britain achieved greater things than most sub-Saharan African cutures ever did. It did so long before it even got into its stride as a civilization in medieval times, and none of this owed anything to the Greeks or Romans. Show me the sub-saharan Salisbury Cathedral or Wilton Diptych, or name the black Chaucer, William Ockham or Duns Scotus of equivalent age. That will impress me.
You alleged that Britons were nomads here, you forgetful fool> 'Admit it without Roman and Greek Subjugation your people were Barbaric nomads without a pot to piss in...' Nomads we were not, and as I have shown, we had some very posh pots! We were never subjects to the Greeks, and sizeable portions of the British Isles were never taken by the Romans either (namely Scotland and Ireland).
You also suggested, previously that Britons owed something to Indians, which is another laugh. How many miles of railway did India lay down in England? How many English widows were saved from being burned alive at the husband's funerals by well-meaning Hindus? Please...
I'm perfectly proud of my UK heritage, but I also happen to be interested in ancient Egypt, and it's none of your business if I choose to use an Egyptian name. Ra, if he existed, might be moderately satisfied by the endeavour of defending modern Egyptians from the slanders of afrocentrists who want to cast them as impostors, and pretend that the ancien Egyptians were negroes.
I don't pretend to descend from Egyptians, despite the fact that the Scots have an ancient legend to that effect (that of Scota, who was a mythical wandering Egyptian princess), so I could so-pretend if I was of a romantic bent. There are no time-honoured legends linking royal Egyptians to black west Africans, as far as I'm aware. Not that west Africans had chroniclers to set down their stories, unlike the medieval Scots, who had Walter Bower, among others.
Britons progressed, Africans did not. Black Africa seldom even came up to the level of Islamic Egypt, which is where the oldest universities were established, and where great architecture continued to be raised. Nothing in black Africa compares to the Mameluk mosques of Cairo, for instance.
Modern African politicians shamelessly embezzling western aid money while their people suffer- this quite adequately reveals the inherent honour of the African! There are 100,000-200,000 child-sildiers in modern Africa. Is it whites who are conscripting them?
The Zulus were brave warriors, true, but they fought with spears, wrote nothing, and lived in round huts with dirt floors, such as Britons had abandoned two thousand years previously. Left alone would the Zulus ever have invented steam engines or bolt-action rifles? I doubt it! They were less advanced, in the nineteenth century AD, than were the Celts of several century BC. Who can vouch for how fragrant they were after spending the day with cattle or running to battle? Were there public baths in Zululand? Was there a Zulu William Lever? Did a philanthropic Zulu soap factory owner ever build a beautiful little town for his workers? I think not.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: Jari, dear... For your information I've never eaten Grey Puppon, or even *Poupon*, in my life. Your calumnies and gratuitous insults are pathetic. The most savage of my remote ancestors were surely more civil than you know how to be.
If you cannot appreciate and admit the superior artistry of the objects shown, especially from the Celtic Iron Age, then that speaks more of your cultural bias and philistinism than anything else. As I say, I don't particularly care about ignorant opinion, however. You're just a sore loser.
Ancient Britain achieved greater things than most sub-Saharan African cutures ever did. It did so long before it even got into its stride as a civilization in medieval times, and none of this owed anything to the Greeks or Romans. Show me the sub-saharan Salisbury Cathedral or Wilton Diptych, or name the black Chaucer, William Ockham or Duns Scotus of equivalent age. That will impress me.
You alleged that Britons were nomads here, you forgetful fool> 'Admit it without Roman and Greek Subjugation your people were Barbaric nomads without a pot to piss in...' Nomads we were not, and as I have shown, we had some very posh pots! We were never subjects to the Greeks, and sizeable portions of the British Isles were never taken by the Romans either (namely Scotland and Ireland).
You also suggested, previously that Britons owed something to Indians, which is another laugh. How many miles of railway did India lay down in England? How many English widows were saved from being burned alive at the husband's funerals by well-meaning Hindus? Please...
I'm perfectly proud of my UK heritage, but I also happen to be interested in ancient Egypt, and it's none of your business if I choose to use an Egyptian name. Ra, if he existed, might be moderately satisfied by the endeavour of defending modern Egyptians from the slanders of afrocentrists who want to cast them as impostors, and pretend that the ancien Egyptians were negroes.
I don't pretend to descend from Egyptians, despite the fact that the Scots have an ancient legend to that effect (that of Scota, who was a mythical wandering Egyptian princess), so I could so-pretend if I was of a romantic bent. There are no time-honoured legends linking royal Egyptians to black west Africans, as far as I'm aware. Not that west Africans had chroniclers to set down their stories, unlike the medieval Scots, who had Walter Bower, among others.
Britons progressed, Africans did not. Black Africa seldom even came up to the level of Islamic Egypt, which is where the oldest universities were established, and where great architecture continued to be raised. Nothing in black Africa compares to the Mameluk mosques of Cairo, for instance.
Modern African politicians shamelessly embezzling western aid money while their people suffer- this quite adequately reveals the inherent honour of the African! There are 100,000-200,000 child-sildiers in modern Africa. Is it whites who are conscripting them?
The Zulus were brave warriors, true, but they fought with spears, wrote nothing, and lived in round huts with dirt floors, such as Britons had abandoned two thousand years previously. Left alone would the Zulus ever have invented steam engines or bolt-action rifles? I doubt it! They were less advanced, in the nineteenth century AD, than were the Celts of several century BC. Who can vouch for how fragrant they were after spending the day with cattle or running to battle? Were there public baths in Zululand? Was there a Zulu William Lever? Did a philanthropic Zulu soap factory owner ever build a beautiful little town for his workers? I think not.
**R1b-M412 appears to be the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe (470%), while being virtually absent in the Near East, the Caucasus and West Asia
I don't know why you keep repeating the Zulu rant? There are no Zulu descendants here to defend or eleborate on it. Nor do I think most of us know well enough their history. I understand that they were a people organized, with social construction. For them to have spears does not make uncivilized. As most nations had spears, swords, bowe and arrow.
Second, archeology and anthropology is still very young in Africa, except for Egypt.
From what we know now, most of West Africas cultural development is much older than that of West Europe (Briton). However the scholars at Timbuktu were indigenous people and had the best scholars for its time, even though it's a dispersal of the Islamic expansion. You should know that West Africans already had indigenous written scripture.
The celts entered Britain about 800-450 BC. Correct?
The people of Iron Age Britain were physically very similar to many modern Europeans and there is no reason to suppose that all Iron Age Britons had the same hair colour, eye colour or skin complexion. Iron Age Britons spoke one or more Celtic language, which probably spread to Britain through trade and contacts between people rather than by the invasion of large numbers of Celtic peoples into Britain. Currently, there is no evidence for such an invasion at any time in the Iron Age.
The Romans called the people of Iron Age Britain 'Britons' and the island of Britain 'Britannia', that is, 'land of the Britons'. The Britons had many ways of life in common with other peoples living in western Europe, who the Romans called Celts or Gauls. There was trade between peoples in Britain and western Europe, and also probably marriages. Nevertheless, the peoples who spoke Celtic languages in different parts of Europe at this time were diverse.
From studies of the skeletons of Iron Age Britons we know that the average woman was 1.5 metres (5 foot 2 inches) in height, the smallest known was 1.4 metres (4 foot 9 inches) tall, and the tallest 1.7 metres (5 foot 7 inches). The average man was 1.69 metres (5 foot 6 inches) in height, the smallest known was 1.6 metres (5 foot 2 inches) tall and the tallest was 1.8 metres (5 foot 11 inches). There are few human skeletons from Iron Age Britain, but there is evidence for differences in height and health between people living in different parts of the country. People in East Yorkshire living about 400-100 BC were taller than people from Hampshire.
Lastly, you have a tendency of ignoring certain parts of history, when they are showen to you. As if it does not exist. The onside view is how "your" authors write history. On default.
In AD 43, Britain became a province of the Roman Empire when it was invaded by an army under the emperor Claudius. Its links with the Empire, however, had already been long established through trade, population movement and political alliances.
Nevertheless, there was understandably native resistance, notably by Boudicca. But by the 70s AD, much of the island was under Roman control.
Britannia, as it became known, covered the areas of modern England and Wales. Modern Scotland was never fully conquered. By the end of the second century AD, Hadrian’s Wall was the northernmost frontier of the Roman Empire, whilst Ireland always remained outside. Roman rule finally came to an end in the early fifth century AD.
The British Museum collection includes thousands of objects that reflect these four centuries of Roman rule, and show how Roman and native culture became mixed. The Romans built towns and villas of stone, brick, tile, plaster and mosaics, and roads to link them. Latin became the official language, and the law, administrative system and currency of Rome were all introduced.
The range of imports increased, and settlers arrived from other Roman provinces in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. Native religions and classical beliefs became interlinked. Other cults from the east were introduced, and Christianity became increasingly popular in the fourth century AD.
All this created a complex and diverse society, which is reflected by objects in the British Museum.
I don't hate Africans, I hate what certain Africans did, like the Ashanti, Benin and others who sold my ancestors into slavery.
The Congo Empire actually tried to curtail and stop the enslavement of their people.
I could care less about West African Slave Trading empires. No matter how much you try to apologize for them To me they are the epitomy of pathetic. My interest is in Pre Islamic West Africa and Christian African Empires. Mali and Songhai are fine in my book as they did'nt resort to Slavery as their main export like the Ashanti empire did.
quote:Originally posted by asante: ^^^^^^
It is true jari is not afro centric he actually hates african yet he still makes threads showing how great african culture is lmao You are one confused oreo jari
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Ive watched some of your video, I like how you are trying to play the victim. Why don't you post some of the replies that made me insult your ancestors. From day one you have insulted my ancestors and other Africans time and time again despite countless posters here provinding evidence of sophisticated culture in Africa.
If Ausar had not deleted that thread I Could have posted what you wrote in the Civilization thread, but I will be making a counted video with your racist replies and a explanation.
Huh, what a drag now I have to make a video, Im supposed to be on my break.
I don't feel like doing this sh@t..
Oh well..
No one made you insult my ancestors, you took it upon yourself to do that. It pissed you off because you could not name an African equivalent to some of the illustrious early Europeans who have been listed. You thought you could take it out on the ancient Britons, calling them 'savages of savages'. In fact they turn out to have been quite a cultured and spiritual lot, great farmers, warriors, engineers, and artists and no strangers to soap. I really think we ought to draw a line under this as all this acrimony profits no-one.
Built Heritage
Architectural monuments in Africa have long been neglected, not only in the discussions about preservation but also physically. The last few decades however, starting from the sixties and seventies, the architectural treasures of this continent have more and more attracted western architects and researchers. At the Faculty of Architecture at the Delft University of Technology it was especially the Forum movement, with architects such as Aldo van Eyck and Herman Haan, which inspired many students and gave the debate about African Architecture an extra whim.
Nowadays, most of the monumental built environment in Africa has been recognized as such. The importance of the recognition, validation and preservation of cultural heritage knows however many difficulties. Especially in a country like Mali, known for its rich cultural past and present, the diversity of attentions fields (archaeology, anthropology, architecture, music) creates a huge problem in how to make choices, how to create sustainable structures etc. The methods of labelling cultural heritage generate their own dynamics and problems.
The most prestigious label is of course the World Heritage List of UNESCO. The preservation of a World Monument however is not so easy as it seems and one can often wander if this labelling actually provides a sustainable framework for conservation. The impact of this label on the local cultural perspective of the monument often exceeds the original, traditional perception of the building structures as a living part of everyday society.
International conservation rules (for instance Charter of Venice) provide a fairly workable set of operational tools in regard to a conservation project. However, the local building traditions, the traditional way of modifying and using houses and the impact of modern western society often are in conflict with these international standards.
Therefore, restoration and conservation of a modern historic city has to be seen in the framework of the development of the historical structures, the impact of western society and possible future growth. New city developments, electricity, sewerage systems, motorized transports, car parking, plastic pollution; these are just e few of the ingredients of the conflict between modern life and historical city structures. A new approach has to be defined, to reconsider the system of monumental labelling and its instruments to conserve and preserve.
Djenné, a well known UNESCO World Monument, is a city which faces all of these problems. The case of its restoration can be used in the research for new restoration concepts and tools. Satellite cases such as Asmara and Zanzibar can be helpful to redefining international standards.
If you are truly interested in early Kerma culture and Ta Seti that preceded Kemet then simply study, the info is there always was.. you may want to start with the Qustol incense burner for example for there was clear influence flowing north ward and then flowed back think A group culture but it behooves to shed your racism. No that is no hill that is all man made before Kemites colonized the area.
What’s clear is that Kerma’s civilisation emerged out of an ancient pastoral culture that had flourished in that part of Sudan since at least 7000 B.C. when the first settlements were established. Nearby Kerma archaeologists have discovered one of the two oldest cemeteries ever found in Africa – dating back to 7500 B.C. – and the oldest evidence of cattle domestication ever found in Sudan or, indeed, in the Egyptian Nile Valley. Around 3000 BC a town grew up not far from the Neolithic dwellings place. http://wysinger.homestead.com/kerma.html
Until then lets see if you really know how to act.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Ive watched some of your video, I like how you are trying to play the victim. Why don't you post some of the replies that made me insult your ancestors. From day one you have insulted my ancestors and other Africans time and time again despite countless posters here provinding evidence of sophisticated culture in Africa.
If Ausar had not deleted that thread I Could have posted what you wrote in the Civilization thread, but I will be making a counted video with your racist replies and a explanation.
Huh, what a drag now I have to make a video, Im supposed to be on my break.
I don't feel like doing this sh@t..
Oh well..
No one made you insult my ancestors, you took it upon yourself to do that. It pissed you off because you could not name an African equivalent to some of the illustrious early Europeans who have been listed. You thought you could take it out on the ancient Britons, calling them 'savages of savages'. In fact they turn out to have been quite a cultured and spiritual lot, great farmers, warriors, engineers, and artists and no strangers to soap. I really think we ought to draw a line under this as all this acrimony profits no-one.
IN SHORT
This period is characterised by migration: Steppe-tribes moved from Asia into Europe while Germans moved from the Baltic to the South, in turn prompting the migration of Celts all over Europe. Cultures developed essentially in isolation during this period, forcefully defending their territory .
INVASIONS IN EUROPE 800 BC - 400 BC
1 Description of the migration movement 2 Causes of migration 3 Consequences of migration 4 Reactions on migration
CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PERIOD
Economics did not change much during this period. Iron -a functionally superior metal to copper- was now used to construct tools. Although agriculture was still very important, improved farming methods enabled parts of the population to pursue other means of making a living while relying on the availability of food produced by others. Some people for example specialised solely in the crafting of tools, while others devoted their life to religion. As the population continued to increase Europe became more crowded, so that it was no longer possible to find new fertile farmland simply by migrating.
Shifts took place in cultural and political life. From the large number of cultures that had come to exist during the first appearance of agriculture in Europe, a few had developed further and come to dominate. While the Greek culture for example developed in the south-eastern part of Europe, north-western Europe and central Europe saw the appearance of relatively new cultures. The Celtic culture came to dominate large parts of Europe, while the Germanic culture was firmly established in northern and north-eastern Europe. Eastern Europe on the other hand was dominated by new cultures from Asia. The Germanic and Celtic cultures were each composed of many separate groups that had similar cultures, yet each group had its own territory and political organisation. The first signs of conflicts between "states" became manifest as each group held on to its own culture and territory.
EFFECT OF CHARACTERISTICS ON MIGRATION
Migration, in fact, is particularly characteristic of this period. The new cultures from the east migrated to Europe because of invasions of Steppe tribes from Asia, and changes in climate pompted Germanic culture to leave the Baltic area. The Celts were on the move because they were chased away by Germanic and Steppe tribes.
1. DESCRIPTION OF THE MIGRATION MOVEMENT
1.1 Who were they, and where did they come from: ethnic origin, geographical background, religion, adults, men or women, special qualities
* 800 B.C.: Steppe-tribes reached Europe. At the eastern borders of Europe, the Steppe-tribes were the most significant migrants for a long time.
* 750-700 B.C.: The Sumerians lived in the steppes north of the Black Sea around 1200 B.C. They were chased away from this area by the Scythians.
* 750-700: The Scythians themselves were on the move because of the movements of the Sarmatians, who originally came from the area near the Aral-lake, who were from the 4th century B.C. onwards moving to the west also.
* 600-100 B.C.: Strictly speaking there were two main streams of migrating Germans, namely West-Germans and East-Germans. The West-Germans were the most well known due to their contact with the Romans, and can be subdivided into Germanic tribes near the North Sea (Chaukes, Frisians and Batavians), between the Rhine and Elbe (Ubians, Sugambri, Chamavi, Cherusci and Chatti) and in Central and Southern Germany (Hermunduri, Marcomanni and Quades in the Danu be area). At the end of the first century B.C. the West-German population remained relatively stable, in that they did not mix with any other groups. The East-Germanic tribes on the other hand were constantly renewed by and mixed with people travelling from Northern Germany and Poland through the valleys of the Oder and Vistula.
* 600 B.C.: *600 B.C.: Many Celtic tribes came to Central and Western Europe: the Boyards, the Noricae, the Vindelici and, in the mountains between Hungary and Switzerland, the Helvetians. Two groups of Celts existed in Gaul: those between Garonne and the Pyrenees, and those between Garonne and the Seine: the Arverni, the Haeduers, the Veneti, the Parisii and the Serones. The Allobroges settled in the area around the Rhône and the Maritime Alps. The last to arrive were the Belgae between the Seine and the Rhine, the Bellovaci around Beauvais, and the Remi between Marne and Meuse. Some Belgae settled on the British Islands, near London. The Brigantes lived in the Pennine Chains in England, while the Caledones occupied an area to the north. The Boyards, the Insubrians and the Serones influenced Italy while in western-Spain Celts mingled with Iberians to give rise to Celtiberian tribes.
1.2 How did they travel: transport, circumstances of travelling
1.3 When?
1.4 How many?
1.5 Permanent or temporary?
1.6 Where did they go and where did they stay?
* 1800-800 B.C.: Steppe-tribes moved from 1800 B.C. onwards to the area east of the Don, and from there on to Central Europe. Around 1100 B.C., they reached the valleys of the Dnieper, and afterwards the Dniester. In 800 B.C., they reached Northern Romania and the steps of the Ukraine.
* 750-700 B.C.: The Sumerians fled to the west and to Asia Minor.
* 750-700 B.C.: The Scythians moved towards Europe and also to the north of Russia.
* 600 B.C.: The culture of the Scythians also appeared near the Dnieper and in the Crimea. They conquered pieces of land numerous times. They even reached the Caucasus and Mesopotamia. In the 6th century B.C., they reached Poland and the Danube-area.
* 600 B.C.: Groups of Germans came down from the Baltic. Other groups of Germans, the Cimbri and Teutons who came from the Danube-area, reached Italy and the southern part of Gaul in the 2nd century B.C. There the Romans beat them.
* 600 B.C.: Many sorts of Celts came to Central and Western Europe.
2. CAUSES OF MIGRATION
2.1 Circumstances that favoured migration
2.2 Circumstances that hindered migration
2.3 Direct causes of migration
* 600 B.C.: The Germans moved south from the Baltic because of changes in the climate of the area.
* 600 B.C.: One of the reasons the Celts moved was the advance of Germans from the Baltic area to the south.
* 600 B.C.: Another reason the Celts moved was the advance of Steppe-tribes, Scythians and Sarmaten.
* 600 B.C.: The Celts expanded their power over a large part of Central and Western Europe, partly because of all these movements made by Steppe-tribes, Scythians, Sarmaten and Germans.
3. CONSEQUENCES OF MIGRATION
3.1 Short term consequences
Positive consequences - for the migrants (first generation) - for their new environment/ the native born
* 600 B.C.: Nomadic Scythian shepherds chased away small groups of farmers.
- for the country they left Negative consequences - for the migrants (first generation) - for their new environment/ the native born - for the country they left
3.2 Long term consequences Positive consequences - for the migrants (second and third generation) - for their new environment
* 600-200 B.C.: The Celts played a big part in the trade between Northern Europe and the Mediterranean world. In the third century B.C., the Celts controlled the area in Central Europe surrounding the Danube.
* 600 B.C.: Because the Celts were chased into Europe, they spread all over central and western Europe and their culture became a very important one in the region. - for the country they left Negative consequences - for the migrants (second and third generation) - for their new environment - for the country they left
4. REACTIONS ON MIGRATION
4.1 Reactions of the receiving society on the immigrants - official reaction - from the ‘common people’
4.2 Reactions of the immigrants on their new environment - integration / assimilation
* The mixture of Scythian culture and Greek culture that emerged here resulted in Thracian culture. At the same time near the Volga and between the Don and the Urals a different culture emerged, that of the Sarmatians. About the 2nd century B.C. they reached the Black Sea.
- maintaining their own identity - differences between first, second and third generation
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I don't hate Africans, I hate what certain Africans did, like the Ashanti, Benin and others who sold my ancestors into slavery.
The Congo Empire actually tried to curtail and stop the enslavement of their people.
I could care less about West African Slave Trading empires. No matter how much you try to apologize for them To me they are the epitomy of pathetic. My interest is in Pre Islamic West Africa and Christian African Empires. Mali and Songhai are fine in my book as they did'nt resort to Slavery as their main export like the Ashanti empire did.
quote:Originally posted by asante: ^^^^^^
It is true jari is not afro centric he actually hates african yet he still makes threads showing how great african culture is lmao You are one confused oreo jari
A Previvious comment from jari
"He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints"
So according to your bible jari you guys were being punished for leading others into slavery is that right? Is this what you black hebrew israelites believe?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ^^^^ Ive watched some of your video, I like how you are trying to play the victim. Why don't you post some of the replies that made me insult your ancestors. From day one you have insulted my ancestors and other Africans time and time again despite countless posters here provinding evidence of sophisticated culture in Africa.
If Ausar had not deleted that thread I Could have posted what you wrote in the Civilization thread, but I will be making a counted video with your racist replies and a explanation.
Huh, what a drag now I have to make a video, Im supposed to be on my break.
I don't feel like doing this sh@t..
Oh well..
No one made you insult my ancestors, you took it upon yourself to do that. It pissed you off because you could not name an African equivalent to some of the illustrious early Europeans who have been listed. You thought you could take it out on the ancient Britons, calling them 'savages of savages'. In fact they turn out to have been quite a cultured and spiritual lot, great farmers, warriors, engineers, and artists and no strangers to soap. I really think we ought to draw a line under this as all this acrimony profits no-one.
Built Heritage
Architectural monuments in Africa have long been neglected, not only in the discussions about preservation but also physically. The last few decades however, starting from the sixties and seventies, the architectural treasures of this continent have more and more attracted western architects and researchers. At the Faculty of Architecture at the Delft University of Technology it was especially the Forum movement, with architects such as Aldo van Eyck and Herman Haan, which inspired many students and gave the debate about African Architecture an extra whim.
Nowadays, most of the monumental built environment in Africa has been recognized as such. The importance of the recognition, validation and preservation of cultural heritage knows however many difficulties. Especially in a country like Mali, known for its rich cultural past and present, the diversity of attentions fields (archaeology, anthropology, architecture, music) creates a huge problem in how to make choices, how to create sustainable structures etc. The methods of labelling cultural heritage generate their own dynamics and problems.
The most prestigious label is of course the World Heritage List of UNESCO. The preservation of a World Monument however is not so easy as it seems and one can often wander if this labelling actually provides a sustainable framework for conservation. The impact of this label on the local cultural perspective of the monument often exceeds the original, traditional perception of the building structures as a living part of everyday society.
International conservation rules (for instance Charter of Venice) provide a fairly workable set of operational tools in regard to a conservation project. However, the local building traditions, the traditional way of modifying and using houses and the impact of modern western society often are in conflict with these international standards.
Therefore, restoration and conservation of a modern historic city has to be seen in the framework of the development of the historical structures, the impact of western society and possible future growth. New city developments, electricity, sewerage systems, motorized transports, car parking, plastic pollution; these are just e few of the ingredients of the conflict between modern life and historical city structures. A new approach has to be defined, to reconsider the system of monumental labelling and its instruments to conserve and preserve.
Djenné, a well known UNESCO World Monument, is a city which faces all of these problems. The case of its restoration can be used in the research for new restoration concepts and tools. Satellite cases such as Asmara and Zanzibar can be helpful to redefining international standards.
Traditional West African architecture in modern implementation.
What what...
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
@Ish Goebor...
Yes, that's the history. I don't know what part of that you thik I've glossed over. Did you have a question?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by adrianne: RAHOTEP
i bet you CANT refute this post
Europeans never invented their own civilization. They copied "their" technology, religion, and mathematics from The East and far south Europeans only started inventing things around 1500 AD because they had stolen gold, silver, slaves, and land from North and South America and Africa to finance higher lifestyle they never had in Europe.
Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe, they weren't inventing Much. They were just modifying what had already been invented by China, The Middle East, and Egypt.
So much for "white superiority".
Europeans never invented Agriculture, domesticate cattle, reading, writing, mathematics or city-building
The Europeans, like Leopold were savage and barbaric in their exploitation of Africa.
But in terms of technology how did trains, planes, cars, the steam engine, electrical motors and lighting, computers, television,organ transplantation, landing on the moon come about? I don't see any copying there.
Rahotep did and does make racist remarks like in that earlier thread where he said something to the effect of you Africans never did anything but invent lip plates. That's where the real you comes out, a-hole
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''You are a pyramidiot not worth the time of anyone interested in serious scholarship of accurate historiography. I would prove myself a fool were I to take further notice of you.'' =======
There are more than one forms of pyramidology. I've greatly updated the wikipedia entry to clarify:
Not all of them are crackpot pseudo-science. The nonsense about aliens or atlanteans are, however there are legitimate metrological and numerological claims within pyramidology. Charles Piazzi Smyth the Astronomer Royal of Scotland and professor of astronomy in the University of Edinburgh held these views, hardly a charlatan. He was one of the world's greatest academics.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''Right up until 1492, when Europeans were still confined to Europe'' ====
?
The Norse were already in Greenland and Canada by the 11th century.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Now even you see why I created this thread, even lioness remembers the post from the deleted thread. Rahotep is trying to play the victim when I did nothing but give him a taste of his own medicine.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Rahotep did and does make racist remarks like in that earlier thread where he said something to the effect of you Africans never did anything but invent lip plates. That's where the real you comes out, a-hole
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You are a pyramidiot not worth the time of anyone interested in serious scholarship of accurate historiography. I would prove myself a fool were I to take further notice of you.'' =======
There are more than one forms of pyramidology. I've greatly updated the wikipedia entry to clarify:
Not all of them are crackpot pseudo-science. The nonsense about aliens or atlanteans are, however there are legitimate metrological and numerological claims within pyramidology. Charles Piazzi Smyth the Astronomer Royal of Scotland and professor of astronomy in the University of Edinburgh held these views, hardly a charlatan. He was one of the world's greatest academics.
Sometimes scientists who have legitimate views and proper research methodology in one area also have side interest views which are quackery, example, Charles Piazzi Smyth. If you think your pyramidology concepts are valid you should post a thread about them. That is, if you aren't scared
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Are you aware you are typing ENGLISH? yet you sit behind your keyboard attacking the native british (including english) peoples?
??????????????
Why don't blacks type their own languages? More evidence of self-hate, blacks never embrace their own heritage or culture, they are obsessed with whites.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Are you aware you are typing ENGLISH? yet you sit behind your keyboard attacking the native british (including english) peoples?
??????????????
Why don't blacks type their own languages? More evidence of self-hate, blacks never embrace their own heritage or culture, they are obsessed with whites.
Because white people kidnapped us and forced a different culture down our throats
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
The very alphabet you write in origins lie in the Phonecian Alphabet which was derived from Egyptian Heiroglyphs.
Everywhere I look I see European Americans obsessed with China, Japan, India, Egypt, Persia, Zulu etc.
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: If you are truly interested in early Kerma culture and Ta Seti that preceded Kemet then simply study, the info is there always was.. you may want to start with the Qustol incense burner for example for there was clear influence flowing north ward and then flowed back think A group culture but it behooves to shed your racism. No that is no hill that is all man made before Kemites colonized the area.
What’s clear is that Kerma’s civilisation emerged out of an ancient pastoral culture that had flourished in that part of Sudan since at least 7000 B.C. when the first settlements were established. Nearby Kerma archaeologists have discovered one of the two oldest cemeteries ever found in Africa – dating back to 7500 B.C. – and the oldest evidence of cattle domestication ever found in Sudan or, indeed, in the Egyptian Nile Valley. Around 3000 BC a town grew up not far from the Neolithic dwellings place. http://wysinger.homestead.com/kerma.html
Until then lets see if you really know how to act.
I've seent said incense burner, and it's not that impressive. It is so fragmentory that it's impossible to tell if the white crown is genuinely represented. It looks rather doubtful.
You can see, the little man in the crown is squeezed in to what is actually a missing area. It's not very convincing, to my mind.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
This is another point. If Britons and Nordics were so advanced(Which they were), why don't we see them building their native Architecture in Modern Form. Except for maybe Gothic(again Gothic style is native to France not Britain) and the Norwegian Wood Churches I can't recall any Arch. that is derived from ancient British styles.
As primitive as people claim Africans to be at least some still retain their culture to a certain extent.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Traditional West African architecture in modern implementation.
What what...
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: [I've seent said incense burner, and it's not that impressive. It is so fragmentory that it's impossible to tell if the white crown is genuinely represented. It looks rather doubtful.
You can see, the little man in the crown is squeezed in to what is actually a missing area. It's not very convincing, to my mind. [/qb]
wake up, you are only showing the portion of the circular incense burner that corresponds to the left section of the flattened illustration. The three of four other segments are not showing in the photo view.
The figure that is speculated to be wearing a white crown is in segment 2 Above the figure, supposedly a falcon
The following shows the circular shape of the incense burner. However I wasn't able to find the corresponding segment 2 view photo
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: [QB] Are you aware you are typing ENGLISH? yet you sit behind your keyboard attacking the native british (including english) peoples?
??????????????
Why don't blacks type their own languages? More evidence of self-hate, blacks never embrace their own heritage or culture, they are obsessed with whites.
Because white people kidnapped us and forced a different culture down our throats
They did not kidnap anyone, they bought them from their black captors, lets be real. That was bad enough, of course, but let's be precise.
Posted by _Mouse (Member # 6729) on :
^ Who cares,,,
Blacks are obsessed with whites just as much as whites are obsessed.
Just take a look at the typical banter that goes on on this forum. PURE OBSESSION WITH RACE.
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
(duplicated post deleted)
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
@Lioness Yes, obviously, but the drawing makes fairly clear which fragments are actually there and which bits are speculative reconstuctions. On the intact sections, there's nothing which seems to directly preherald Egyptian iconography.The 'white crown' is a tapering bottle shape that could be anything. The tip and base of the shape are missing.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
At times, kings and businessmen would sell the criminals in their society to the buyers so that they could no longer commit crimes in that area. Most other slaves were obtained from kidnappings, or through raids that occurred at gunpoint through joint ventures with the Europeans. Some Africans kings refused to sell any of their captives or criminals. King Jaja of Opobo refused to do business with the slavers completely. For this, he was captured along with his people.
After slavery with a sense of superiority, Europeans came into Africa and colonized with the intent to exploit resources and subjugate the people by force. The British did not accept full equality even for an African adopting British ways, and disapproved of interracial marriage.
-continuing attitudes, lip plate stereotypes in an attempt to humiliate
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by _Mouse: ^ Who cares,,,
Blacks are obsessed with whites just as much as whites are obsessed.
Just take a look at the typical banter that goes on on this forum. PURE OBSESSION WITH RACE.
In one sense "Blacks" and "Whites" appear to be opposites competing.
In another sense "Blacks" and "Whites" enjoy obsessing on each other as a game because subconsciously they both enjoy the privilege of being clearly defined by symbolic colors.
The other people of the world varying shades of light to dark don't identify by skin color.
For example a Mexican doesn't call themselves a "brown" and though some of them may be as dark as a "black" person they don't call themselves "black". They identify as Mexicans, nationality not skin color.
Similarly a Japanese person may have the exact same skin color as "white" person but they don't call themselves "white". They identify themselves as Japanese.
So called "Black people" and so called "White people" like to obsess on each other because they think that being identified by a symbolic skin color is a privilege.
This is why "African American" was an advance for us out of this nonsense.
But we reverted back to "Black" (Negro in Spanish) because we can't get off of that European created skin color based sense of entitlement.
This is why I prefer to call myself "African American"
But why be long winded. A Japanese person might have been born America and their parents born in America. Yet they still call themselves "Japanese" if you ask them and leave out the obvious "American" attachment to that.
This is why I call myself African
Technically an African American
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @Ish Goebor...
Yes, that's the history. I don't know what part of that you thik I've glossed over. Did you have a question?
Yes, what are these called?
An accurate reconstruction of early British settlements, based on recent excavations...
The remnants of a once mighty frontier wall, by Romans
Reconstruction of the Roman fortified village of Bremetenacum
A Roman Bronze mirror, recovered in Britain, 1st to 2nd Century
A map showing the various migration routes taken by Germanic tribes from the 5th and 11th centuries
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by _Mouse: ^ Who cares,,,
Blacks are obsessed with whites just as much as whites are obsessed.
Just take a look at the typical banter that goes on on this forum. PURE OBSESSION WITH RACE.
You are looking for excuses. While at the same time. Whites are more than whom ever studying and obsessed other peoples cultures and writing about it.
You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we. And it appears you now have a problem with this. Go figure!
Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
quote:I've greatly updated the wikipedia entry to clarify....
Respectfully, that is an example of exactly why wickipedia can NOT be taken seriously as a research tool/source of information- anyandeveryone who has access to internet can manipulate the info it contains...
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: @Lioness Yes, obviously, but the drawing makes fairly clear which fragments are actually there and which bits are speculative reconstuctions. On the intact sections, there's nothing which seems to directly preherald Egyptian iconography.The 'white crown' is a tapering bottle shape that could be anything. The tip and base of the shape are missing.
You make this claim because you are clueless about the history on hieroglyphs.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: white people kidnapped us and forced a different culture down our throats
Nobody forced anything down your throat you willful ignoramus. You were born to serve Eurocentric lies.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Qustul censer bearing serekh slightly earlier or contemporaneous to late dynasty 00, white crown before dynasty 0, and other symbols related to later dynastic royalty.
Building facade; bird topped standard; beast within barque; rosette, falcon topped serekh, white crown, all aboard barque; man on chair in barque. Note that the palace or temple facade is first in the photos but last in the drawing.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I speak as I find. I can't think of any great architectural monuments in Nubia that predate the period of Egyptian influence. If you show me them, I will acknowledge the fact. It seems to be a matter of historical record that Kilwa and Mogadishu were founded by Persians. I have not denied the sophistication of Yoruba and certain Nok artifacts, and there does seem to have been more going on in that corner of Africa than I imagined.
You are obviously ignorant of the fact that Egyptian pharaonic civilization is largely derived from that of Nubia. The Nubian kingdom of Ta-Seti is far older than those of any royal polities in predynastic Egypt and many pharaonic iconography, customs, etc. were in place in Nubia centuries before Egypt. Even the pharaonic style tombs and proto-mastabas were found in Nubia first. I suggest you do research on the archaeology of the Nile Valley before you rehash outdated theories of "Egyptian" influence in Nubia since it was the other way around.
quote:It's an accident of birth what colour one is, and who one's ancestors were, so no basis for any kind of chauvinism. It doesn't mean one can't judge historical cultures against each other. Cultural relativism is a way of making excuses for backwardness. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is an admirable African in part because she doesn't feel obliged to accept the detrimental baggage from her own heritage, and is able to embrace the positive aspects of western civilization and modernity.
I'm disgusted by the ideas of head-hunting, human sacrifice and slave-taking whoever did it, so clearly I would not defend every aspect of ancient European culture. (That said, I doubt the Celtic religions were as bloodthirsty as the Romans made out. Many times more people were killed in the Roman arenas than ever were on Druidic altars). Slavery has been a shameful feature of otherwise-great civilizations all over the world. Peoples as advanced as the Carthaginians were said to resort to human sacrifice.
Nice speech, but you still seem to be in denial that the problem in academia as it is in today's Western society is still Eurocentrsim. Your very claims of African barbarism compared to Europe is proof of that. While I myself acknowledge the presence of advanced culture in northern and northwestern Europe before Roman times and coinciding with the neolithic, YOU seem to be in denial of the fact that the neolithic from which all these civilizations sprang was not an indigenous affair but was introduced from the Near East! You also seem to be in denial that not only was neolithic culture in Africa predate anything in Europe but that it was totally indigenous and and not derived from elsewhere!
At least you are honest that you don't know much about African history, but this coupled with the lack of archaeology in the continent outside of the Nile Valley is the source for all this ignorance.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
One of the problems with Eurocentrism are certain biased doctrines concerning the existence or development of advanced culture or the very definition of 'civilization'.
The root word 'civil' implies cities, yet is that a criteria of advanced culture? The ancient Egyptians for example had relatively few cities in its overall territory. The vast majority of inhabitants lived in small villages scattered throughout the Nile. In contrast, the civilizations of West Africa consisted of various coalitions of many city-states yet you hardly ever hear of civilizations in that part of Africa. It is all because of double-standards and biased thinking in part of Europeans.
I speak of these Eurocentric doctrines below, there is more:
#2 TECHNOLOGICAL CALIBRATION DOCTRINE: Insists on forcing archaeological finds as well as living cultures into a grid of "development" based on whether tools, materials and techniques valued by "Western" scholars were in use. Example: "They were a stone age civilization who never discovered the wheel!" This model forces cultures into a progressional paradigm: Old and New Stone Ages, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Industrial Revolution, Space Age. This classification ignores the complexity of culture, and the fact that metallurgic technology and military might are not the ultimate measure of advanced culture.
#3 STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT DOCTRINE: The assumption that "primitive" cultures represent lower "stages" in historical evolution, and have yet to attain advanced forms of culture. One English scholar referred to "the child-races of Africa." Usually, social hierarchy, militarization and industrialization are taken as prime measures of "advanced" civilization. In the 19th century, scholars openly used the terms "savage," "barbarian," "civilized." Though these offensive words have (mostly) been dropped, the underlying assumptions are still quite influential. (For a good discussion of how the insistence on talking about "tribes" distorts African history, see http://www.africaaction.org/bp/ethall.htm. )
#4 SPREAD OF CIVILIZATION DOCTRINE: Credits all achievements to conquering empires, assuming their superiority in science, technology, and government. Adherents are usually incapable of perceiving advanced earth-friendly systems of land management, agronomy, medicine, collective social welfare networks, healing, astronomical knowledge, or profound philosophical traditions among peoples considered "primitive" by dominant "Western" standards.
#5 PASSING OF THE TORCH DOCTRINE: Claims a chain of cultural transmission from Mesopotamia and Egypt to Greece to Rome to western Europe to the USA, leaving vast gaps where the history of the rest of the world should be. (And the discussion never returns to Egypt or Iraq to consider what happened there after the fall of their ancient empires.) Most of the planet's cultures are discussed only in relation to the European conquest, if mentioned at all. As a result, few people have any idea of the history of Sumatra, Honduras, Niger, Ecuador, Mozambique, Ohio, Hokkaido, Samoa, or even European countries such as Lithuania or Bosnia.
Ironically, these same biases has harmed European history by disregarding Celtic and Germanic culture as "barbaric" while focusing solely on the so-called "Classical" cultures of Greece and Rome despite the so many non-European derived features of their cultures!! In the meantime, going by these very same standards Africa would indeed be more 'civilized' than Europe since after all Europe had Greece and Rome and perhaps Iberia all along the Mediterranean whereas Africa had far greater:
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I could come back with..
That bracelet looks quite familiar, looking at the wrist.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Qustul censer bearing serekh slightly earlier or contemporaneous to late dynasty 00, white crown before dynasty 0, and other symbols related to later dynastic royalty.
Building facade; bird topped standard; beast within barque; rosette, falcon topped serekh, white crown, all aboard barque; man on chair in barque. Note that the palace or temple facade is first in the photos but last in the drawing.
It is an archaeological FACT that so-called Nubian 'A Group' culture was contemporaneous with Egyptian Naqada culture. It is also an archaeological FACT that the earliest evidence of kingship and royal burials come from A Group and only later appeared in Egyptian, particularly Naqada III culture! Almost all Egyptologists agree that since the discovery of finds in Qustul and Sayalah, there were no royal tombs in Egypt. Da-Ho-Tips can deny the depiction of the white crown all he wants. All other phraonic iconography from the serekh symbols, to the seated king, to even the royal totems of the baboon, hawk, etc. were found in the kingdom of Ta-Seti a.k.a. 'A Group Culture'.
Furthermore here is what anthropologists have discovered about the remains of the earliest known Egyptian kings in Naqada III Nekhen (Hierakonpolis):
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt.
T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of Cranial and Dental Morphological Traits and Evidence for Endogamy in Ancient Egypt" American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)
Coincidence? I think not! Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglophile_Pyramidiot: ''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
Actually with the exception of "mud huts", quite a lot, you fool!! Old Western literature is literally teeming with writings about how every kingdom and civilization found in Sub-Sahara was the result of "caucasian" Hamites or "black-skinned whites"! Of course Egypt was the very fountainhead of these Hamites. You yourself have proven such nonsensical great white lie propaganda in the thread you created here with its academic sources about how whites were the original inhabitants of Polynesia and Micronesia! LOL If White-washing extended as far as the Pacific, do you really think Sub-Saharan Africa was left unscathed?? Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
Indeed Egypt was white and you don't have history textbooks in elementary- and high schools, let alone academia
Oh....and n*gg*rs never had any history contribution or accomplishment.
For you information, mud hut houses were also in Egypt.
And from an archeological point of view tools provided by the environment are the best providers. You should do some traveling and field research, xenophobic racist.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Ish. The guy shot himself in the face long before he made that comment when he created that stupid thread citing old literature stating that the original Polynesians and Micronesians were whites! LOL Posted by TruthAndRights (Member # 17346) on :
Asante temples, Building and Palaces (1817, 1896, 1874, 1900)
View of the Aban within the Manhyia palace complex before being looted and blown up by the British army
^^^Kumase 1874 view from the Aban (before it was destroyed)
^^House of a priest in Adwenase 7 miles south of Ejisu near Kumase (lone figure)
Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
Lol... then you aren't aware of the reaction Europeans had to Great Zimbabwe. They caused great damage trying to find evidence to support their theories. Don't forget the Hamitic hypothesis LOL
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You write about your history and teach that to your children. Well, now so do we.'' =======
The difference is that you are stealing ours, while we never stole yours.
How many europeans try to claim that sub-sahara africa was settled by whites first and we built the mud huts there?
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
I'm sorry about the lip plate remark, if that offended, yet it's true. Who would do this to their daughter? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/2625617617_cc8ce98c75.jpg Who would want a wife who can't smile, speak, kiss or drink properly? How the hell did that come about, of all the things you could invent? What could look worse than the dangling loop of stretched flesh and the gap of knocked-out teeth when the plate is removed?
The buildings of the Asante etc. in later times compare at best to those of the pre-medieval Saxons.
The mirror shown was first century, and could have been pre-Roman. Nothing about it's style is classical, the design is purely Celtic. There are dozens of others of similar pattern that certainly do predate Roman contact, eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/archaeology/treasure_gallery_02.shtml
Even back in the bronze age the Britons were producing jewellery and goldwork somewhat comparable with that of Egypt (the presence of amber and even faience indicating the extent of their trading connections)
By the way there is no connection between ancient British torcs (which were worn around the neck) and Persian bracelets.
The Anglo Saxons, who are substantially the ancestors of the modern English (with a bit of indigenous Celt, Viking and Norman thrown in) were not ignorant barbarians either, and their stupendous art owes little to the Romans. Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
It is about the Art and Architecture Of Africans with a heavy concentration of Western and Southern African cultures and civilizations in all their wonderful varieties, I am not one to demean the cultures and accomplishment of others but celebrate their uniqueness and ingenuity, this needn't be a pissing contest between who is better.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Lip plates are by a small African tribe, lip plates are also found amongst Indinious American (Amerindians). Lip plates trace the root back to Mesapotemia. The lip plates in the Northern part of East-Africa have a certain reason.....seriously get a grip dating back to the 6-7th century AD.
And fact is, by the studies that a marginal part of present-day British is from mass migration movements.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I'm sorry about the lip plate remark, if that offended, yet it's true. Who would do this to their daughter? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3054/2625617617_cc8ce98c75.jpg Who would want a wife who can't smile, speak, kiss or drink properly? How the hell did that come about, of all the things you could invent? What could look worse than the dangling loop of stretched flesh and the gap of knocked-out teeth when the plate is removed?
The buildings of the Asante etc. in later times compare at best to those of the pre-medieval Saxons.
The mirror shown was first century, and could have been pre-Roman. Nothing about it's style is classical, the design is purely Celtic. There are dozens of others of similar pattern that certainly do predate Roman contact, eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/archaeology/treasure_gallery_02.shtml
Even back in the bronze age the Britons were producing jewellery and goldwork somewhat comparable with that of Egypt (the presence of amber and even faience indicating the extent of their trading connections)
By the way there is no connection between ancient British torcs (which were worn around the neck) and Persian bracelets.
The Anglo Saxons, who are substantially the ancestors of the modern English (with a bit of indigenous Celt, Viking and Norman thrown in) were not ignorant barbarians either, and their stupendous art owes little to the Romans.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I could come back with..
That bracelet looks quite familiar, looking at the wrist.
This torc was made with great skill and tremendous care in the first half of the first century BC. It is one of the most elaborate golden objects made in the ancient world. Not even Greek, Roman or Chinese gold workers living 2000 years ago made objects of this complexity.
The torc is made from just over a kilogram of gold mixed with silver. It is made from sixty-four threads. Each thread was 1.9 mm wide. Eight threads were twisted together at a time to make 8 separate ropes of metal. These were then twisted around each other to make the final torc. The ends of the torc were cast in moulds. The hollow ends were then welded onto the ropes.
The torc was found when the field at Ken Hill, Snettisham was ploughed in 1950. Other hoards were found in the same field in 1948 and 1990. The torc was buried tied together with a complete bracelet by another torc. A coin found in caught in the ropes of the Great Torc suggests the hoard was buried around 75 BC.
Source: British museum.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
The mirror is Roman modeled. And obviously Roman in origin. And like all these type of mirrors dating back to 1-2th AD
Whitchurch Roman mirror
Object Name Roman hand mirror
Object Age Roman (1,875 to 1,825 years old)
Description
This fine example of a Roman hand mirror is one of many items discovered at the site of a Roman cemetery at Sedgeford outside Whitchurch in the 1970s. The mirror is made from speculum (a tin and copper alloy) and has 68 countersunk holes drilled around the edge for decoration. The surface is highly polished to make it reflective.
It is thought to have been made in the Netherlands sometime between 125-175 A.D. The mirror was found alongside the cremated remains of a mother and child placed within a pottery flagon. Also included in the grave were the remains of two joints of meat, one pork and one venison and a coin, possibly to pay the ferryman to take their souls to the underworld. Seventy-two nails mixed in with the cremated bone represent the remains of the cremated coffin. When the mirror was excavated its surface was covered with a thin layer of rotten wood. This is thought to be the remains of the mirror's oak case.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
The Celtic mirror is one of a number that have been discovered, and the style was obviously preferred by the Britons over anything the Romans could teach them. Most such mirrors seem to predate the Roman invasion by a century or more. http://www.celticmirrors.org/ Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
If stuff derivative of other cultures is admissible then I could show this, which is the sort of thing the Britons had during Roman times... From the Mildenhall Hoard.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The Celtic mirror is one of a number that have been discovered, and the style was obviously preferred by the Britons over anything the Romans could teach them. Most such mirrors seem to predate the Roman invasion by a century or more. http://www.celticmirrors.org/
I think my sources are valid enough to speak on European history, aren't they?
Anyway, I do think the Romans took it from Africans and imported it into Britain. During the Ptolomy Hellenistic Greek-Roman rule.
Medium: Gold Place Collected: Saqqara, Egypt Dates: ca. 1938-1759 B.C.E. Dynasty: XII Dynasty Period: Middle Kingdom Dimensions: 1 7/8 in. (4.8 cm) high x 5/16 in. (0.8 cm) diameter
The skilled goldsmiths of Nubia created masterpieces such as a pendant of the goddess Isis from the tomb of a Nubian king at Nuri.
Queen Kawit, shown on her sarcophagus having her hair dressed, was one of the noble women believed to have been sent from Nubia to make diplomatic marriages with 11th-dynasty pharaoh Mentuhotep II. (2061 BC – 2010 BC)
Bronze, electrum, traces of gilding; H. 27.7 cm, W. 15.9 cm, Th. 3.5 cm
From Buhen, temple area in the Middle Kingdom fort New Kingdom, Eighteenth Dynasty, 1400 B.C. Khartoum, National Museum 18595
The small female figure which forms the handle wears a conical headdress into which the mirror's disk is inserted. She holds a small cat in her raised left hand. Around her hips is a diagonally striped belt, and the frontal areas of both upper thighs show tattoos inlaid with electrum. Earrings of gold probably once filled the holes drilled in the earlobes. The mirror was most likely dedicated as a votive offering in the temple of Buhen.
Mirror with Falcons Bronze, H. 21.9 cm, W. 12 cm, D. 1.4 cm Semna, Tomb S 552, 1539–1425 BC (New Kingdom, Early Dynasty 18) Harvard University—Boston Museum of Fine Arts Expedition: 27.872
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Yes, it's from the Romans who invaded Britain. Fine Roman art. It has typical Roman depictions as well.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: If stuff derivative of other cultures is admissible then I could show this, which is the sort of thing the Britons had during Roman times... From the Mildenhall Hoard.
String of Carnelian and Faience Disc Beads Carnelian and Faience, L. 19 cm, D. 0.5 cm Aniba, Tomb N944, 2400–1550 BC (C-Group) Gift of George Steindorff, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston: 50.4076
String of Amulets Faience, L. 24.5 cm, D. 1.8 cm Aniba, Tomb N825, 2400–1550 BC (C-Group) Gift of George Steindorff, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston: 50.4078
The above is well known. I think?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
I've seen the Nubian jewellery, and very nice it is too, if heavily derivative of Egypt. It is of a similar quality to the jewellery from the Sutton Hoo burial, which is also in the British Museum. The Sutton Hoo find as been called England's Tutankhamun's tomb.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Posted by rahotep101 (Member # 18764) on :
The discovery of Tut's tomb itself being a British achievement, of course, and a testimony to the tenacity of Howard Carter...
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Razor and mirror, New Kingdom, Dynasty 18, early co-reign of Thutmose III and Hatshepsut, ca. 1479–1473 B.C. Egyptian; From the tomb of Hatnofer and Ramose, western Thebes Bronze and wood H. of mirror 6 3/4 in. (17 cm) Rogers Fund, 1936 (36.3.69,.13)
Source: Razor and mirror [Egyptian; From the tomb of Hatnofer and Ramose, western Thebes] (36.3.69,.13) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: The discovery of Tut's tomb itself being a British achievement, of course, and a testimony to the tenacity of Howard Carter...
Discovery, achievement? His Egyptian laborers uncovered a series of steps leading down to a sealed door.
I my opinion it should have stayed where it was.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Its amazing how well that mask has been preserved.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I've seen the Nubian jewellery, and very nice it is too, if heavily derivative of Egypt. It is of a similar quality to the jewellery from the Sutton Hoo burial, which is also in the British Museum. The Sutton Hoo find as been called England's Tutankhamun's tomb.
Amulet of Harsaphes, Isnaya el-Medina (Herakeolpolis Magna), Egypt, Late Period,.reign of Neferkara Peftjawybast, 740-725 BC (cast gold):
Egyptian 23rd Dynasty (828-725 BC)
Golden Necklace Spacer 568-555 BC Material: Gold.
Collection: Brooklyn (New York), The Brooklyn Museum, Charles Edwin Wilbour Fund 49.29
Description: On the front: "Son of Ra, Lord of the Crowns, Aramatelqo, may he live forever; Beloved of Hathor, Lady of Dendera, Mistress of the Gods, may she give life." On the back: "King of Upper and of Lower Egypt, Lord of the Two Lands, Wadj-ka-ra, may he live for ever; Beloved of Ra-Harakhte, the Great God, Master of Heaven, may he give life."
Posted by Calabooz' (Member # 18238) on :
Nubian jewelry derived from Egyptian? This is based on what evidence? If anything, the opposite is more likely.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
I looked up the mask at the British museum. This is what they show?
Room 41: Europe AD 300-1100
Helmet from the ship-burial at Sutton Hoo, early 7th century AD
Original helmet
Replica: front view
Replica: side view
Sutton Hoo
On a small hill above the river Deben in Suffolk is a strange-looking field, covered with grassy mounds of different sizes. For several hundred years what lay under them was a mystery.
Then in 1938, an archaeologist called Basil Brown started digging under mounds 2, 3 and 4, where he found a few, mostly broken, Anglo-Saxon objects which had been buried alongside their owner's bodies. Sadly, grave robbers had taken most of what was there. WIth a little more hope he started on the biggest mound, Mound 1.
He did not know that the treasures under Mound 1 would turn out to be the most amazing set of Anglo-Saxon objects ever found.
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I've seen the Nubian jewellery, and very nice it is too, if heavily derivative of Egypt. It is of a similar quality to the jewellery from the Sutton Hoo burial, which is also in the British Museum. The Sutton Hoo find as been called England's Tutankhamun's tomb.
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz': Nubian jewelry derived from Egyptian? This is based on what evidence? If anything, the opposite is more likely.
No it did not, that is not the point I am making.
Image of the Nub are welcome.
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Ok my response is complete, its a short vid. All thats left is uploading. Like I said its short, I don't have time to waste on willful ignorant racists like Rahotep101.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
The Anglo Saxons, who are substantially the ancestors of the modern English (with a bit of indigenous Celt, Viking and Norman thrown in) were not ignorant barbarians either, and their stupendous art owes little to the Romans.
Europe AD 300-1100
Purse
The Anglo-Saxons liked to show off their wealth as much as people do today. This is the lid of a leather purse which held 37 coins. It is the richest one found from this time, with gold and garnet cloisonné decoration. Can you see a man standing between two wolves and an eagle? These animals meant strength and courage.
The purse itself had rotted away, but the coins inside turned out to be crucial in setting a date for the burial. The latest date for the coins was AD 620, so the person was probably buried soon after this. This makes sense because at that time East Anglia was the most powerful kingdom in the country.
Source: British museum
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: I've seen the Nubian jewellery, and very nice it is too, if heavily derivative of Egypt. It is of a similar quality to the jewellery from the Sutton Hoo burial, which is also in the British Museum. The Sutton Hoo find as been called England's Tutankhamun's tomb.
Europe AD 300-1100
Shoulder clasps
These two clasps may have fastened leather armour at the shoulder. They have a clever design: the two halves are put together, then the gold pin slides though them both, locking them together very strongly.
The clasps are beautifully decorated in a special way called garnet cloisonné. Thin strips of gold were formed into cells, and red garnets with gold foil underneath were placed into them. It took huge skill and patience to do this.
The ends of the clasps have boars on them. Boars meant strength to the Anglo-Saxons.
Source: British museum
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
Europe AD 300-1100
Sword
The most important weapon in Anglo-Saxon times was the sword, which was often passed down from father to son. Warriors were buried with their swords beside them. This one was made by a master-craftsman, and has a pommel covered in gold and garnets.
The shield was next in importance. The wood on this one rotted away, so it has been built again (reconstructed) recently, but the gold decorations are the same. Can you see the bird of prey, and the thin-looking dragon? Both these animals meant strength and power to the Anglo-Saxons
Source: British museum
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
Industrial-strength brewing in the Predynastic period (ca. 3500 B.C.)
The oldest preserved house in Egypt, the burnt remains of the potter's house at HK29
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Calabooz': Nubian jewelry derived from Egyptian? This is based on what evidence? If anything, the opposite is more likely.
Yes some Nubian jewelry is indeed derived from Egypt but the same could be said the other way around. Certain styles and and jewelry Egyptians had especially during the 18th dynasty were derived from Nubians such as the so-called "shield" earrings or the "Nubian wigs" worn by royals.
quote:Originally posted by Dahotip101: By the way there is no connection between ancient British torcs (which were worn around the neck) and Persian bracelets.
Actually ancient Persians, but especially other Iranic peoples wore torcs around their necks as well which is why some scholars consider this item an Indo-European one and not simply Celtic.
By the way, I notice you ignored my posts, especially the part where Egyptian pharaonic culture is of Nubian origin anyway.
I find it funny how you are using an Egyptian (African) moniker and are so keen to compare your Medeival Celto/Anglish culture to Egypt but not other European cultures or Egypt to other African cultures. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
...
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
I actually went easy on him because I have better things to do than debate a Willful Ignorant racist who mocks and belittles Africans...
Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101:
The buildings of the Asante etc. in later times compare at best to those of the pre-medieval Saxons.
The Asante Style Architecture is not the only style within West Africa. The Soninke people created a style of Architecture far more advanced than Mideval Britons(who built off Roman Ruins and French derived Gothic Styles) and the Asante.
^ That's one of his main problems (aside from his denial)-- he is totally ignorant and oblivious about African culture. He obviously never took the time to study it. I was ignorant about African culture once myself until I did research and not only was I more informed but I suddenly realized that Egyptian civilization literally screams African with so many cultural traits in common with those in West Africa let alone Sudan than in the so-called "Near East". He is a fool who refuses to learn. Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
^^^^ Exactly, I had no idea about Walata until after I started here, Hell at one time I had no idea about the University at Timbuctou.
I remember reading a white supremist website where the owner claimed that so called "Black Africans" never built out of stone, never had a wheel etc. He was talking about how he debated a black girl via Email. Man If I knew what I know now I would have shut him down so bad.
What is funny is that the White Supremist claimed to be a historian who was writing a project about Malcolm X or WEB Dubois(I cant remember) amoung other Americans. How Absurd a Racist writing about my people(African Americans.)
Watsonispleased AKA Rahotep(African diety) is willfully Ignorant about African history, no matter how much info we provide he will continue to claim Ethiopia was a result of Arabs, or West Africa was great because of Arabs etc. Yet Watson gets touchy when someone talks about his Tin Isle Ancestors.
Watson and his side kick the Tinman and Dienkies Arab House servant Para-fag need Africans to be primitive to feel better about themselves.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL Yes while all the meanwhile claiming African culture as their own. I mean, the absurdity of them not only claiming Egypt but Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, even Rwanda and Uganda as "Eurasian caucasoid"!! Even West Africa is not safe for they claim "caucasoids" to be inhabiting that region as well!
It's sad but I don't think Rahotips realizes this. He still continues to use the ruse of "Mediterranean caucasoid" vs. "negroid" without realizing the illogic behind these racial concepts. Posted by Just call me Jari (Member # 14451) on :
Yes not to mention that Modern Genetics proves Caucasian and Negriod as descriptors is baseless..
Without Negriod and Caucaisian as their Handicap it makes it hard for Eurocentrics like Watson and His Side kick the Tinman to claim cultures like Egypt, Mesopotamia, etc. Eurocentrics NEED Caucasian and Negriod which is why they have yet to relinquish it.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ True. They like to peddle debunked garbage like "caca-soids" and "negroids" to people who don't know any better. How unfortunate for them that we aren't ignorant nor are we stupid.
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