An honest question to all E/S members is the study and discussion of African civilizations outside Kemet boring? I mean we can go weeks even months at time without bringing up a single African civilization outside Kemet/Kush south of the desert and if not for Jeri not even Axum Christian or pagan get paid much attention, we dig deep into European history,Indian,Meso -American,Asian and others and the board are just dominated with those about questions on phenotype and rarely of culture even.. some can trace the history of European royals with exact detail. But what of lands like Ghana were their royals any less important than lets say Bohemians?? Is the rise of Shaka and the political intrigue before and during his reign any less important some Welsh Duke? I mean how important are the descendants of these families are today in either the building up or hampering of Africa's growth.
I am not saying that other areas of the world that Africans touched should not be studied but I only wish more people would put equal emphasis on the more neglected but not devoid of civilization history and culture on other parts of the Continent.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ stop crying and make threads on Ghana and Zulus
peace, lioness
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
No. They are not interesting because most of us who took Afro-American history in high school already learned about the West african Kingdoms and east African Kingdoms of the Medieval period.
They have been mentioned in Afro-American history text since the late 1800's.
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: No. They are not interesting because most of us who took Afro-American history in high school already learned about the West african Kingdoms and east African Kingdoms of the Medieval period.
They have been mentioned in Afro-American history text since the late 1800's.
. .
Clyde, West and East african Kingdoms of most history texts that American high school students are assigned ?
seriously ?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness
quote:stop crying and make threads on Ghana and Zulus peace, lioness
Not crying and I did and do make such thread/post but it would be great if others take more interest and go as in depth as one would for discussing Jews and Arabs in Spain for instance. Clyde Winters
quote:No. They are not interesting because most of us who took Afro-American history in high school already learned about the West african Kingdoms and east African Kingdoms of the Medieval period. They have been mentioned in Afro-American history text since the late 1800's.
And I learnt of Kemet in high school plus at the level I am talking about is more than just a familiarity or introduction to those civilizations the knowledge of Eurasian civilization regardless of phenotype as discussed on this board is quite impressive but very few can point out the inner workings of say the Yoruba urban civilizations and even it's impact culturally on the world today.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: No. They are not interesting because most of us who took Afro-American history in high school already learned about the West african Kingdoms and east African Kingdoms of the Medieval period.
They have been mentioned in Afro-American history text since the late 1800's.
. .
Clyde, West and East african Kingdoms of most history texts that American high school students are assigned ?
seriously ?
Yes. My parents are dead now but when they were in school in Mississippi they used Carter G. Woodson's Afro American history text.
I graduated from DuSable in Chicago in 1969. we used John Hope Franklin's from Slavery to Freedom.
In 1999, when I helped write the Social Studies Standards for the Chicago Public Schools 6th Grade World History program, I found that many of the World History text we reviewed had sections on the history of Africa. The text today are even better.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: An honest question to all E/S members is the study and discussion of African civilizations outside Kemet boring? I mean we can go weeks even months at time without bringing up a single African civilization outside Kemet/Kush south of the desert and if not for Jeri not even Axum Christian or pagan get paid much attention, we dig deep into European history,Indian,Meso -American,Asian and others and the board are just dominated with those about questions on phenotype and rarely of culture even.. some can trace the history of European royals with exact detail. But what of lands like Ghana were their royals any less important than lets say Bohemians?? Is the rise of Shaka and the political intrigue before and during his reign any less important some Welsh Duke? I mean how important are the descendants of these families are today in either the building up or hampering of Africa's growth.
I am not saying that other areas of the world that Africans touched should not be studied but I only wish more people would put equal emphasis on the more neglected but not devoid of civilization history and culture on other parts of the Continent.
^^An interesting question. Some of the problem is "structural" - related to general difficulties in getting people to learn about and appreciate history. Consider the following 7 points:
1) It hooks into a UNIVERSAL "history" problem. Many people simply find history overall boring. I don't see many white people for example hunched over books dealing with white Slavic civilization circa 900BC, or for that matter Germany 900BC. There has to be something for people that captures the imagination, something that would make them passionate if you want a popular response. That's why we have historians - to dig into all the tedious detail. Henry the Seventh for example according to a number of historians was a guy who did some good for England, increasing revenues and running a relatively efficient administration. But who the hell ever heard of or cares about Henry the Seventh, when you have the dramatic sex, lies and cruelty of Henry the Eight? Who do people know or care about? Certainly not the accomplishments of Henry the Seventh.
2) Documentation is a big factor. Ancient Egypt left over 3,000 years of documentation, compared to say, the 50-60 years span of the Zulu kingdom. With that kind of long term, even spectacular documentation in the form of monuments and pyramids, it is a slam dunk ancient Egypt would get more attention. It gets more, because it generated more detail over the ages. White people themselves in some instances seem to prefer Egypt to their own cold climate civilizations. What do white people flock by the hundreds of thousands, and spend tens of millions to see every year? Ancient mud buildings in Ireland, circa 200BC, or spectacular Egyptian pyramids, c. 2000BC? White people themselves have made their preference known on this score, and have appropriated to a great extent, the history, symbols and some might say even the religion of Egypt. White people have especially been obsessive about "Egyptomania" - throughout history, even consuming human flesh from Egypt as part of their history. White hypocrisy is rife on this score. As Van Sertima rhetorically asked those hypocritical whites who question why blacks "should" be interested in Egypt.
"What does it matter so much to you who we are interested in?"
3) Various areas of Europe suffer the same problem. You dont hear much about the Slavic zones for example, or pre-Vike Scandanavia compared to Greece or Rome. In fact that is a complaint among some European historians, who lament the dominance of northern Europeans in writing the "official" line on Europe. In the northern European narrative, white eastern peoples of the Balkans, the Baltics and the Slavic zone appear less important because the people who control the presses and propaganda organs slanted the picture that way. Quick modern example is WWII, and the tendency of Western historians (until recent decades) to downplay the fact that it was the massive Russian onslaught that ultimately defeated Hitler, not the Normandy invasion and Western front (although this assisted the "Slavic" effort in important ways).
4) Time periods are another factor. You don't hear much about the Nordics- Sweden, Dennmark, Norway etc until you get the Viking age, and the modern age, in which the Vikings were then written up and popularized by Europeans and nordic partisans worldwide.
5) Egypt is also a prominent because it plays an influential part, indirectly, in Western religious heritage. The experience in Egypt was a formative one on the Hebrews in many ways- from Moses, to the Exodus, to the moral/religious aspects of Egypt in Western thought. The Hebrew religion eventually spread to huge parts of the world, with massive spaces dominated by Christianity and Islam. Some black folk in "the West" get their first exposure to Egypt in a religious setting. They may note that Moses, who himself married an Ethiopian, openly gives the brothas credit where it is due. He groups Kush, Egypt, Punt etc all into one grouping, unlike the artifical racial splitting and stereotyping that was to follow, pronounced no bogus "curse of Ham" (it was conjured millennia later via Jewish, Arab and European writers), and openly acknowledges the superior material culture and and learning of the pre-Hebrew "Ham" civilizations. This is why even Diop hisself quotes approvingly from Moses, and uses his writings as one of the threads in his argument for an African Egypt.
6) Egypt is also important to Africans because it is a child of the African environment- one child, and a spectacular child, but still a progeny of Africa. Continual Eurocentric denials, deception and distortion of this fact is what pisses people off. Desire to set the FACTUAL record straight, means that Egypt will continue to draw plenty of attention. BUt keep in mind, that in and of itself, Egypt is interesting, more so that numerous European historical venues, as Europeans themselves attest by their travel and dollars.
7) African history, once it shakes loose of biased European models will increasingly approach the state you call for. I think you are right that there may be a danger of seeing Egypt as some sort of "central headquarters" of civilization in Africa. THis may be so with some. But a balanced model, that acknowledges African bio-historical diversity (rather than Eurocentric distortion, stereotyping and splitting), & that respects the dynamic nature of the African environment and its peoples, (rather than static Eurocentric thinking - i.e. the Sahara and rigid "sub-Saharan" Africans notion), and that sees Egypt as a child of Africa (rather than part of some other outside venue as in Arabized /Eurocentric conceptions), will move African history more along the lines you call for. Keita's "Saharao-Tropical complex" notion is one good alternative starting point. Such models should be specifically focused and rooted in clear evidence, rather than a grand theory that is supposed to account for everything African. A grand "central headquarters Egypt" theory for example is one of the things to be avoided. On the flip side, narrow "West Africanism" or "Bantuism" approaches play into hypocritical Eurocentric/Arabized hands. A balanced model is needed.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
5) Egypt is also a prominent case because it plays a strong part in the religious life of the West. The experience in Egypt was a formative one on the Hebrews in many ways- from Moses, to the exodus, to the moral/religious aspects of Egypt in Western thought. The Hebrew religion eventually spread to huge parts of the world, with massive spaces dominated by Christianity and Islam. Many black folk in "the West" get their first exposure to Egypt in a religious setting. They quickly note that Moses, who himself married an Ethiopian, seemingly openly gives credit where it is due. He groups Kush, Egypt, Punt etc all into one grouping, unlike the artifical racial splitting and stereotyping that was to follow, pronounced no bogus "curse of Ham" (it was conjured millennia later via Jewish, Arab and European writers), and openly acknowledges the superior material culture and and learning of the pre-Hebrew "Ham" civilizations. This is why even Diop hisself quotes approvingly from Moses, and uses his writings as one of the threads in his argument for an African Egypt.
However the role that Egypt plays in Western religion is that of pagan idol worshiping oppressor, something that the ancient Hebrews, mythologically (?) were trying to get away from. The role that Egypt plays in the religious life of the West is negative, a villian in a story, not, even if true, a predecessor of or inspiration of it. Even Minister Farrakhan has many times used a negative connotaion for the word "Pharoah" as an archetype for oppressive government.
In the 70s and 80s people like Dr. Karenga had some influence on AA's learning about West African and other African tradition. Not necessarily always promoting those aspects of culture called "civilization" which suggets that people who build large stone architecture or monuments are better than folks living more humbly. Now, a sense of West African culture in the AA community is diminished and the fascination is heavily weighted toward egypt. The reason for this is that Egypt is seen by people as more linked to Western culture than other parts of Africa and it also removes us from recollecting slavery. And some people believe that the Egyptians had a key to high accomplishment , that by studying it some may rub off. However I don't see that much indepth here on ES about Egyptian texts, what was said, what the meanings were. It's more geared to a racial tug of war. The over-emphasis on Egypt to the neglect of West Africa comes out of this whole obsession with the foundations of "civilization" . But let's deal with reality, ancient Egyptian culture has been dead for two thousand years so it's easy to project however you want to revive it in a new age version.
We need to return to making inroads with the culture and people of our direct ancestors in Africa.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Before you posted I edited to say the influence was an indirect one. Yes "pagan, idol worship" oppr to be sure but the influence need not be all positive to be still a formative influence in Western religion. The notion of an "Exodus" - or a "promised land" are one of many important influences in not only Western religious thought but some political thought as well. A preacher named King for example, used the narrative quite well in helping to break down US segregationist laws. Nor is the influence all negative. In Genesis 41 Pharaoh appears as a splendid symbol of divine power, majesty and favor, and considered rightfully so, not merely another king but a symbol of divine power.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Before you posted I edited to say the influence was an indirect one. Yes pagan, idol worship to be sure but the influence need not be all positive to be still a formative influence in Western religion. The notion of an "Exodus" - or a "promised land" are one of many important influences in not only Western religious thought but some political thought as well. A preacher named King for example, used the narrative quite well in helping to break down US segregationist laws. Nor is the influence all negative. In Genesis 41 Pharaoh appears as a splendid symbol of divine power, majesty and favor. WIthout a doubt, Pharaoh is THE top man there in the Biblical narrative, and considered rightfully so, not merely another king but a symbol of divine power.
King was likening the civil rights movement against institutional racist oppression to the exodus from oppression in Egypt. please wake up to this fact.
The "influence" was an influence to leave Egypt and it's ways.
That's not an influence on the religion. It's the opposite a declaration that they wanted no part of it. They set off to do things their way, namely have one god alone and eliminate all other dieties.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [qb] Before you posted I edited to say the influence was an indirect one. Yes pagan, idol worship to be sure but the influence need not be all positive to be still a formative influence in Western religion. The notion of an "Exodus" - or a "promised land" are one of many important influences in not only Western religious thought but some political thought as well. A preacher named King for example, used the narrative quite well in helping to break down US segregationist laws. Nor is the influence all negative. In Genesis 41 Pharaoh appears as a splendid symbol of divine power, majesty and favor. WIthout a doubt, Pharaoh is THE top man there in the Biblical narrative, and considered rightfully so, not merely another king but a symbol of divine power.
King had little impact on segregation in the US.
The key reason things changed was the riots of 1968. During these riots American leaders understood we didn't care about tearing this MF down to get rights. Am leaders knew they couldn't fight a war in the US and Vietnam, while Russia was waiting to take the spoils.
Ho Chi Mien studierd the riots well and based the Tet Offensive on our tactics and this was the beginning of the end for the US in Vietnam.
You may not know this but urban warfare has been the most difficult combat for American troops when they can't go all out to fight the enemy. Losing the big cities given their influence in commerce and industry back in the day would have weakened the U.S., significantly since they needed Black troops to help put down any urban conflict.
.
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
We all know the fvcking reason why we do not study African history outside Egypt. It is because Africa outside Egypt ain't sexy and does not rise up to the European standard on ancient civilization. Without Egypt, the Negro pretty much has NOTHING to brag about, historically. Egypt is our ONLY source of [false] pride. Y'all know what I am saying is true. Nigglets don't like to sit in a multicultural class and watch their ancestors among peers living in mudhuts, titis bobbling around, spear chucking and speaking bird language. We feel worthless in front of non-blacks with that kind of history.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Clyde, you bring up a very difficult issue. Yes indeed, it WAS the riots (edit: AND the Panthers) which caused a breakthrough in civil rights. And at the time of his assassination, Rev. King was largely irrelevant - hence he busied himself with a garbageman's strike.
That IS the truth: but is it convenient: and HOW is it to be told?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Did everybody pick-up on Confirming Truth's Post?
Lioness, Jari, and now Confirming Truth too is Black?
Now I'm really sorry that I didn't pay closer attention to those human psychology classes. I just don't get how that is suppose to advance their agendas - with everybody already knowing better that is.
Brada-Anansi - My interest was expat-Africans, when I found that it was a neglected field, I researched it, and I now post on it - Hint.
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Did everybody pick-up on Confirming Truth's Post?
Lioness, Jari, and now Confirming Truth too is Black?
Now I'm really sorry that I didn't pay closer attention to those human psychology classes. I just don't get how that is suppose to advance their agendas - with everybody already knowing better that is.
Brada-Anansi - My interest was expat-Africans, when I found that it was a neglected field, I researched it, and I now post on it - Hint.
Posted by SAUCE CODE (Member # 6729) on :
^^These are not skills to be proud of, believe me Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
For the younger members: This was perhaps the defining moment in the civil rights movement - if for no other reason than it's audacity.
George Jackson (Black Panther)
In January 1969, Jackson and Nolen were transferred from San Quentin to Soledad prison. In January 1970 Nolen along with two other black inmates were shot to death by guard O.G. Miller during a yard riot with members of the Aryan Brotherhood.
Following the death of Nolen, Jackson became increasingly confrontational with corrections officials and spoke often about the need to protect fellow inmates and take revenge on guards for Nolen’s death in what Jackson referred to as “selective retaliatory violence”.
On January 16, 1970 Jackson was charged along with Fleeta Drumgo and John Clutchette for murdering guard John V. Mills, who was beaten and thrown from the third floor of Soeldad’s Y wing This was a capital offence and a successful conviction could put Jackson in the gas chamber. Mills, an inexperienced rookie, was killed in retaliation for the shooting deaths of Nolen and the other two black inmates by officer Miller the year prior. Miller was not convicted of any crime, a grand jury ruling his actions to be justifiable homicide in response to a fistfight that had started
On August 7, 1970, George Jackson's 17-year-old brother Jonathan Jackson burst into a Marin County courtroom with an automatic weapon, freed prisoners James McClain, William A. Christmas and Ruchell Magee, and took Judge Harold Haley, Deputy District Attorney Gary Thomas, and three jurors hostage to demand the release of the "Soledad Brothers."
Haley, Jackson, Christmas and McClain were killed as they attempted to drive away from the courthouse. Eyewitness testimony suggests Haley was hit by fire discharged from a sawed-off shotgun that had been fastened to his neck with adhesive tape by the abductors. Thomas, Magee and one of the jurors were wounded. The case made national headlines.
Angela Davis, accused of buying the weapons, was later acquitted of conspiracy, kidnapping, and murder. Magee, the sole survivor among the attackers, eventually pleaded guilty to aggravated kidnapping and was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1975. Magee is currently imprisoned in Corcoran State Prison and has lost numerous bids for parole.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Clyde, you bring up a very difficult issue. Yes indeed, it WAS the riots (edit: AND the Panthers) which caused a breakthrough in civil rights. And at the time of his assassination, Rev. King was largely irrelevant - hence he busied himself with a garbageman's strike.
That IS the truth: but is it convenient: and HOW is it to be told?
Mike this is a story that may never be told.
Most people don't know that free lunch , breakfast and meals on wheel programs were first done by the Black Panthers.
.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Ha,ha, it seems so funny, that in order to maintain the position of MLK, Blacks will now have to do what Whites have always depended on - Revisionist history.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
NOW I GET IT!!!
(Melaninking has taught me more than any psychology professor ever could).
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: We all know the fvcking reason why we do not study African history outside Egypt. It is because Africa outside Egypt ain't sexy and does not rise up to the European standard on ancient civilization. Without Egypt, the Negro pretty much has NOTHING to brag about, historically. Egypt is our ONLY source of [false] pride. Y'all know what I am saying is true. Nigglets don't like to sit in a multicultural class and watch their ancestors among peers living in mudhuts, titis bobbling around, spear chucking and speaking bird language. We feel worthless in front of non-blacks with that kind of history.
There I was wondering why Confirming Truth would claim to be Black. It didn't make any sense, I thought: surely he knows nobody will believe him.
But then it came to me: that was not a conscious decision, that was purely genetic instinct!
He had not lied in about 5 minutes, and his Albino "lie gene" simply kicked in. He himself, probably doesn't know why he did it.
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: An honest question to all E/S members is the study and discussion of African civilizations outside Kemet boring? I mean we can go weeks even months at time without bringing up a single African civilization outside Kemet/Kush south of the desert and if not for Jeri not even Axum Christian or pagan get paid much attention, we dig deep into European history,Indian,Meso -American,Asian and others and the board are just dominated with those about questions on phenotype and rarely of culture even.. some can trace the history of European royals with exact detail. But what of lands like Ghana were their royals any less important than lets say Bohemians?? Is the rise of Shaka and the political intrigue before and during his reign any less important some Welsh Duke? I mean how important are the descendants of these families are today in either the building up or hampering of Africa's growth.
I am not saying that other areas of the world that Africans touched should not be studied but I only wish more people would put equal emphasis on the more neglected but not devoid of civilization history and culture on other parts of the Continent.
Conversely, Egypt is quite boring in my opinion. Never anything new to cover.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Well covered points Zarahan and Lioness but this is not mainly Kemet vs the rest of Africa but to ignore those parts of Africa that do not touch the Eurasians, it's like we need that contrast that racial tug o war as you put it,we simply do not study S.O.D civ in their own right..and even when making an attempt we tend to want to compare them to else-where or use that else where as a yard stick.
Now C.T said African civ outside Kemet is not sexy and he bought up the whole mud hut thing but how true is that?could it be that despite the evidence to the contrary that's what alot of us hold in their hearts? and if so isn't that an indication that the areas in question are not looked into in-depth including it's hero myths, take for instance Gassire's Lute that recalled the different stages of Ghana how could that not be "sexy" especially since they had much more than then the often derided "mud hut"(and is a mud hut less sexy than a tent??)
Leo Fobenius did us the service of presenting the voice of the Soninke from their grand epic Dausi parts of which no doubt retain accurate history from as far back as the Akjinjeir stage of the Dhar Tichitt/Tagant civilization circa 450 BCE. Could the Fasa of the following tale (Gassire's Lute) be a geo-ethnonym recalling the Fezzan whence the Libyco-Berbers/Garamantes before their assumption of trade and politics with the civilization and cultures slightly north of and directly between the Niger and the Senegal? Read more: http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=arch&action=display&thread=341#ixzz1X8CWb8sQ[/B] How many of us knew of the epic above and it's connection to the ruins of the Walata complex before brother Al-Takruri bought them to our attention right here on E/S...is this not "sexy"??
And as far as Kemet goes,yes among-st the ordinary religious folks it has negative connotations,but I challenge anyone living in even a medium size city anywhere in the west that you will not bump into something that remind you of Kemet and that it place there was no accident if you live in America forget about it you don't even have to leave your house it's right on your currency.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: Conversely, Egypt is quite boring in my opinion. Never anything new to cover.
I admit that, as passionate as I am about informing the world about Egypt's African heritage, I understand where you're coming from. So much of dynastic Egyptian history has been excavated and exposed that a lot of the mystery that once surrounded the civilization has evaporated. Almost every major temple and tomb ever built in the dynastic period has been dug up now.
In fact, it's actually the Nile Valley's prehistory that personally intrigues me the most. There's more room for discovery there, and you get to appreciate how Egyptian civilization evolved from its Nilotic tribal beginnings to the classical civilization everyone knows. Unfortunately Khartoum Mesolithic pottery doesn't attract as much media attention as New Kingdom sarcophagi.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
There is a poster over at ESR Imhotep06 that is doing some interesting work on the Nile valley at it's source namely the Kongo region with connection to Nile valley religious concepts you may want to have a look see.
The relevant part is the chapter on the "Bread of Life" (2011: 71-72). In it I discuss the Egyptian ritual of eating Osirs (a mold made of bread) which was discibed by Plutarch. The details of the ritual are discussed in teh I-Kher-Nefert stele in Abjw (Abydos) in 1875 BCE. But Plutarch talks about the ritual in Isis and Osiris, 39. You may want to look there.
Well covered points Zarahan and Lioness but this is not mainly Kemet vs the rest of Africa but to ignore those parts of Africa that do not touch the Eurasians, it's like we need that contrast that racial tug o war as you put it,we simply do not study S.O.D civ in their own right..and even when making an attempt we tend to want to compare them to else-where or use that else where as a yard stick.
^^There is a part of that with some, I agree, but as suggested Brada, the problem is a universal one with history. The glamorous areas always get the attention and press. WHite people are not spending tens of millions every year and flocking to see their ancient mud huts in Europe circa 2000BC versus the splendor of Egypt in Africa 2000BC.
African civ outside Kemet is not sexy..but how true is that?could it be that despite the evidence to the contrary that's what alot of us hold in their hearts? and if so isn't that an indication that the areas in question are not looked into in-depth including it's hero myths, take for instance Gassire's Lute that recalled the different stages of Ghana how could that not be "sexy" especially since they had much more than then the often derided "mud hut"(and is a mud hut less sexy than a tent??)
WHat racists don't realize is that their racist rants only create yet ANOTHER opportunity to post factual info that easily debunks their nonsense, and expose white "role models" dirty laundry. Info on African history that would have stayed buried is now freely available on the web across several websites, high up in the Google rankings without needing Wikipedia or any other such forum. And that info is now being incorporated in school curricula, and textbooks. When a mainstream college textbook like Morkot's: "The Egyptians" says- QUOTE: "Egypt was an African civilization developed by African peoples" or even National Geog itself is hiring Keita to make videos, it shows that all the desperate work of racists to bury the truth have been an utter failure, whether it be Wiki edit warring or bogus claims posted on Anthroscape, or ES. Their efforts are meaningless. There is still much work to be done but the "people's forces" are gradually prevailing.
Also when you say civ outside Kemet is not sexy, I think you are looking at the ES forums too much. Within the Afro-dispora as a whole things like Ghana, Mali, Songhai, Shaka etc are very much recognized. It was so in the 70s, 1960s and 1980s and still goes on. Cats that you see walking around in kente cloth, or celebrating Kwanza are not looking to Egypt for any inspiration although Egypt is a legitimate part of the African experience. White people too are very interested in certain aspects. Shaka and the Zulu for example have a fairly decent following among white military buffs, and Shaka is generally treated with respect by a number of major white military historians.
Ancient Egypt was never a leading light of disaporan inspiration re Africa. Other things like Ethiopiansim are bigger historically. Marcus Garvey's movement is but one example. Look at the opening lines on UNIA's famous anthem: "Ethiopia, land of our fathers.." Egypt is not much of a consideration. Likewise look at the influential Rasta movement. The dreads center on Ethiopia not Egypt. You sometimes hear white people pontificate bout "Black Americans" who are supposedly "too concerned" about Egypt. Apart from white hypocrisy in making such statements, it is complete nonsense. Ethiopia has always been a clear first among the diaspora ahead of Egypt. The 2 are not mututally exclusive of course, and Egypt has always been part of the mix.
ANother factor in the mix is the millions of African immigrants here on US soil- Nigerians, Ethiopians etc. These people are making a definite impact. They are reproducing their own cultures and creating new blends for the American environment. Egypt is in the mix but hardly a leader in the process.
I challenge anyone living in even a medium size city anywhere in the west that you will not bump into something that remind you of Kemet and that it place there was no accident if you live in America forget about it you don't even have to leave your house it's right on your currency.
^^I agree And we can see white hypocrisy in action re Egypt exposed. Few outside the Nile Valley or Palestine have been more obsessed with Egypt than white people. As van Sertima asked white critics: "Why does Egypt matter so much to YOU?" Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
In fact, it's actually the Nile Valley's prehistory that personally intrigues me the most. There's more room for discovery there, and you get to appreciate how Egyptian civilization evolved from its Nilotic tribal beginnings to the classical civilization everyone knows.
^^Indeed, and cats who can open up this area to the masses are getting some good press- like ROber Bauval's "Saharan" series.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Indeed, and cats who can open up this area to the masses are getting some good press- like ROber Bauval's "Saharan" series.
Well Zarahan I can't argue your against your points too much,maybe because I do spend too much time on E/S(E/S was the first on line community I ever joined) and not looking at other sites so maybe my view on this has become some what slanted,so if other parts of Africa like the area west of Egypt aka Kemet can be made to look "sexy" by the work of Bauval then maybe the answer is in docudramas,and then movies but I know for a fact that other cultural zones in Africa is more than "sexy" she is a damned hot colorful bitch,that if anyone get to know her can't let go of her. This one by Lioness,yes give her due credit Queen Moremi Ajasoro http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003293 or Queen Amina of Zaria or that Princess who got upset for not have made head of state so she washed her vagina in front the entire court to show her extreme contempt..very interesting court lives.
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
CLyde WInters: King had little impact on segregation in the US.
The key reason things changed was the riots of 1968. During these riots American leaders understood we didn't care about tearing this MF down to get rights. Am leaders knew they couldn't fight a war in the US and Vietnam, while Russia was waiting to take the spoils..
CLyde some assertions here seem questionable. Are you saying riots caused desegregation? If so, it would be false. In fact, the major riots of the 1960s occurred AFTER the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and most riots, actually contributed to making neighborhoods MORE segregated as they accelerated "white flight."
Now if you are saying black progress occurred in any significant way because of riots, then that would be questionable too.There were short term "cool off"- token concessions that benefited a small number of blacks, but black economic progress as a whole is a long-standing trend since WWII. "Riots" bear little responsibility for black progress overall.
Ho Chi Mien studierd the riots well and based the Tet Offensive on our tactics and this was the beginning of the end for the US in Vietnam.
^^Dubious. Ho Chi Minh was conducting urban guerrilla operations since the late 1940s. He needed nothing from "black riots" during the 1960s. The Tet Offensive was a well planned, full-scale disciplined, MILITARY operation spearheaded by full-time Main Force VC troops and smaller units of NVA regulars. It bears little relation to street looting during Watts for example, or ineffectual, sporadic gunfire at police and fire units in US ghettos during the 1960s. The analogy is really stretched.
You may not know this but urban warfare has been the most difficult combat for American troops when they can't go all out to fight the enemy. Losing the big cities given their influence in commerce and industry back in the day would have weakened the U.S., significantly since they needed Black troops to help put down any urban conflict
^^Equally dubious. Actually the urban warfare of the Tet Offensive was welcomed by US commanders in terms of coming to grips & inflicting casualties, because Tet brought the VC and on a smaller scale, the NVA out in the open for a toe to toe slugfest. As a result, the VC were decimated as a major fighting force, and took years to rebuild. NVA regulars had to fill out the ranks and even they scaled back on battle in the immediate years after Tet. And the US did go "all out" in some operations. The destruction of Hue for example by heavy bombing and artillery is but one example. The one Tet battle accomplished in a few weeks what 3 years of US effort could not do- decimate the VC and weaken them for years to come. Why? Because the VC came out of hiding to slug it out toe to toe with US firepower. Had Ho Chi Minh pursued such "urban warfare" approaches more he would have lost. It was the endless jungles, mountain ridges, and rice paddies filled with mines, booby traps and VC/NVA ambushes and attacks, that caused most US deaths and injuries in Vietnam, not urban warfare.
You probably need to clarify some points more Clyde.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova - How old are you?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova - How old are you?
My guess is, old enough to read, and not much else. But yet you presume to correct people who LIVED through it - bright boy.
Assuming that there are more like you:
There were only two important components to the civil rights acts: Voting Rights and Affirmative Action. Voting rights still exist, and were expanded upon. Affirmative Action was immediately challenged in the courts by the Jews, and is now extinct.
Who benefitted most from the civil rights movement?
There is a very short list: Jews and White women!
Two short articles.
The recent supreme ruling which invalidated voluntary integration plans in the school districts of Seattle, Washington and metropolitan Louisville, Kentucky is consistent with a trend which begun in 1978 with the University of California /Blakke case where the Supreme Court imposed limitations on affirmative action programs which had insured minimal minority representation in certain venues.
There appears to be an attempt to reverse the civil rights gains of the 1960's during a period of time when blacks and other minorities were totally excluded from attending certain schools and banned from various public accommodations
Both white and black women benefited the most from the Affirmative Action/ Civil Rights programs of the past. Women have always had the ability to excel but were denied an opportunity to maximize their potential until the passing of Civil Rights legislation in the 1960's. Black males also benefited from Affirmative Action Programs to a lesser degree.
Civil Rights legislation opened doors that would have remained permanently shut to innocent people who did share the same gender or race of those who were in positions of power. Some say that the Affirmative Action Programs have served their purpose and are no longer needed. The truth of the matter is that equal opportunity programs are needed today more than ever. The Supreme Court which is composed of five conservative males, one female and three moderate males have the power to pass rulings which totally disregards affirmative action and civil rights legislation. The court is not fully representative of the gender, the social economic and the cultural background of America.
The voting patterns of whites and blacks suggest that race is a factor in America. It appears that it is human nature to vote for those who share a common racial heritage. If there were no Civil Rights Legislation or Affirmative Action Programs there would be few if any Black legislators in Congress or on the local level.
In the past states simply did not voluntarily protect the voting rights of minority voters. This is why the Voter Rights Act was recently extended. When a race of people has little or no political representation they are at an extreme disadvantage in addressing their issues and concerns. This was painfully illustrated during the first half of the last century. Blacks were denied the right to enter certain public accommodations, denied equal access to loans, voting rights and denied entrance into some of the best colleges and universities.
Jewish Dominance and Exploitation of the Black Civil Rights Movement
Many observers argue that the presumed Jewish altruism and social activism in the American civil rights movement of the 1960's had baser motives. Benjamin Ginsberg argues that the multicultural coalitions spearheaded by Jews in the civil rights era "was a political tactic" to "undermine the power" of those establishment social forces that hindered further Jewish socio-economic advancement. [GINSBERG, p. 125] In 1975 Hasia Dinner wrote a PhD thesis about the way that "Jewish support for black causes was a way for Jews to broaden their own rights without becoming conspicuous by advocating their group interests." [FEINGOLD, p. 130] "Jewish leaders," wrote Diner, "representing different socio-economic classes, ideologies, and cultural experiences committed themselves to black betterment and gave time, money, and energy to black organizations. The spectrum was so wide and the involvement so extensive that one must conclude that these leaders acted out of peculiarly Jewish motives ... [My] book demonstrates that Jewish ends were secured by involvement with blacks." [DINER, p. xiv, xii]
(Similarly, Jewish author Peter Novick notes the changing Jewish strategy in using massive Jewish attack against generic prejudice as a tool in fending off specific anti-Jewish hostility:
"In recent decades, the leading Jewish organizations have invoked the Holocaust to argue that anti-Semitism is a distinctively virulent and murderous form of hatred. But in the first postwar decades their emphasis -- powerfully reinforced by contemporary scholarly opinion -- was on the common psychological roots of all forms of prejudice. Their research, educational, and political action programs consistently minimized diffrences between different targets of discrimination. If prejudice and discrimination were all of a piece, they reasoned that they could serve the cause of Jewish self-defense as well by attacking prejudice and discrimination against blacks as by tackling anti-Semitism directly.") [NOVICK., P., 1999, p. 116]
"The Jewish struggle for equality and fair treatment," says Jonathan Kaufman, "was linked to the struggles of Blacks for greater opportunity. It was not a struggle of equals; Jews did not consider their plight equal to that of Blacks. But they recognized in the Black struggle for civil rights elements that could benefit them and conditions with which they sympathized." [MARTIN, p. 131] Hence, perhaps three-quarters of the funding for the three major civil rights organizations -- the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, The Congress of Racial Equality, and Martin Luther King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference is attributed to Jewish sponsorship. [MARTIN, p. 132]
"Any support of human rights in general by Jews," says Israel Shahak, "which does not include the support of human rights of non-Jews whose rights are being violated by [Israel] is deceitful ... [Jewish] support of Blacks in the South was motivated only by consideration of Jewish self-interest." [SHAHAK, p. 103] "The major role [that Jews] once played in the civil rights movement," says Charles Liebman and Stephen Cohen, "[is a] myth ... [that] enhances the self-image of a Jew as a caring and sensitive minority selflessly contributing to improve the lot of other minorities." [LIEBMAN/COHEN, p. 17] "Among the many myths life and history have imposed on Negroes," wrote Black author Harold Cruse in 1967, "... is the myth that the Negroes' best friend is the Jew." [CRUSE, p. 476]
For years W.E.B. DuBois was the only Black officer in the NAACP, which was largely directed, funded, and controlled in its early decades by Jews like Henry Moskowitz and Joel Spingarn. [ARSON, p. 140] (In 1913 Spingarn announced a yearly award named after himself, the "Spingarn Medal," for the "highest and noblest achievement of an American Negro." [DINER, p. 138] ) In a later era, and another Black organization, the Southern Leadership Christian Conference, a Jew -- Stanley Levison -- even wrote Martin Luther King's speeches for him. [MARTIN, p. 132] Levison has been described as one of King's "closest personal advisers." [KAUFMAN, J., 1988, p. 66] This voice of "Christian Leadership," Levison, was also discovered by the FBI to have been a former Communist party member. [KAUFMAN, J., p. 66] Another Jew, Marvin Rich, was the "chief fundraiser and key speech writer for the Congress of Racial Equality -- CORE", [GINZBURG, p. 145] and his position was later filled by another Jewish attorney, Alan Gartner. In the 1960s, "in CORE, younger and more militant members blocked efforts by [James] Farmer to name one of his Jewish advisers president of CORE, insisting the post be filled with a black." [KAUFMAN, J., 1988, p. 76] In the same era, the Executive Director of the American Jewish Congress, Will Maslow, was also a CORE national board member. (He resigned in outrage when one African-American CORE official, Clifford Brown, angrily declared that Hitler hadn't "killed enough" Jews). [UROFSKY, M., 1978, p. 327]
Another such Black civil rights group was the National Urban League, greatly funded by the Sears-Roebuck magnate, Julius Rosenwald. Edwin Seligman ("descended from one of the wealthiest and most prestigious Jewish families"), was the first chairman of the organization. Its first Executive Board included Abraham Lefkowitz and Felix Adler -- later joined by Seligman's brother George and Ella Sachs Plotz. In 1932, six Jews "served as officials" at the Urban League's Chicago branch. [DINER, p. 186] Following Jewish philanthropic donations, Salmon O. Levinson began directorship of the Abraham Lincoln Center (a social work center for Blacks and whites) in 1917. [DINER, p. 181] Jacob Billikopf, also Jewish, became chairman of Howard University, a Black college, in 1935. Fisk University also had influential Jewish board members. To this day, Rabbi David Saperstein serves as an NAACP board member. "By the mid-1960s," says Jonathan Kaufman, "Jewish contributions made up three-quarters of the money raised by SNCC [Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee], CORE, and SCLC. So important were contributions from Jews to SCLC, Jesse Jackson recalled later, that for a time King's advisers debated whether they should call the group simply the Southern Leadership Conference, eliminating the reference to 'Christian.' In phone conversations with King, Bayard Rustin, one of King's top advisers, would remind him to include references in his speeches to the 'Judeo-Christian tradition.'" [KAUFMAN, J., 1988, p. 66]
Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: We all know the fvcking reason why we do not study African history outside Egypt. It is because Africa outside Egypt ain't sexy and does not rise up to the European standard on ancient civilization. Without Egypt, the Negro pretty much has NOTHING to brag about, historically. Egypt is our ONLY source of [false] pride. Y'all know what I am saying is true. Nigglets don't like to sit in a multicultural class and watch their ancestors among peers living in mudhuts, titis bobbling around, spear chucking and speaking bird language. We feel worthless in front of non-blacks with that kind of history.
Ancient Middle Niger: Urbanism and the Self-organizing Landscape (Case Studies in Early Societies) [Hardcover]. Roderick J. McIntosh (Author) ...
The cities of Middle Niger, although the oldest in sub-Saharan Africa, are the most recently 'discovered' of all the an cient urban civilisations known to archaeology. Emerging in the first millennium BC, they were marked by a unique non-nucleated, clustered city plan and by the absence of kingship or centralised state-focused power. This innovative survey explores the origins and development of these cities, comparing them with the indigenous urban landscapes of Mesopotamia, the Nile valley and northern China, making us rethink cherished beliefs about the 'whys' and 'wheres' of ancient urbanism.
What's your fucking point. Stop being anal retentive.
Posted by SAUCE CODE (Member # 6729) on :
take this, mofos. hehe
scroll to the right --> Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by SAUCE CODE: What's your fucking point. Stop being anal retentive.
Hey ass-hole, whether or not you like the content. It does not give you the right to fuch-up the thread with huge photos.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Sauce code pretty please with cherry on top reduce that over sized pic.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [qb] Before you posted I edited to say the influence was an indirect one. Yes pagan, idol worship to be sure but the influence need not be all positive to be still a formative influence in Western religion. The notion of an "Exodus" - or a "promised land" are one of many important influences in not only Western religious thought but some political thought as well. A preacher named King for example, used the narrative quite well in helping to break down US segregationist laws. Nor is the influence all negative. In Genesis 41 Pharaoh appears as a splendid symbol of divine power, majesty and favor. WIthout a doubt, Pharaoh is THE top man there in the Biblical narrative, and considered rightfully so, not merely another king but a symbol of divine power.
King had little impact on segregation in the US.
The key reason things changed was the riots of 1968. During these riots American leaders understood we didn't care about tearing this MF down to get rights. Am leaders knew they couldn't fight a war in the US and Vietnam, while Russia was waiting to take the spoils.
Ho Chi Mien studierd the riots well and based the Tet Offensive on our tactics and this was the beginning of the end for the US in Vietnam.
You may not know this but urban warfare has been the most difficult combat for American troops when they can't go all out to fight the enemy. Losing the big cities given their influence in commerce and industry back in the day would have weakened the U.S., significantly since they needed Black troops to help put down any urban conflict.
.
Clyde
I'm assuming when you speak of segregation you are using it in the context of integration, which King endorsed?
IMHO, the riots only served noticed to Whites that blacks were easily capable of bringing down the whole damn house around their beanie capped little heads. Following the MLK riots, whites went into overdrive in funding and implementing CONTINTELPRO, and initiated almost complete surveillance (FBI/SBI) of urban blacks, nationwide, down to every single black male youth in the hood.
My thoughts are that the combination of Mohammad Ali, Elijah Mohammad, Malcolm X, MLK, and The Black Panthers forced whites to address their inherent racism from multiple directions, and this is what lead to some semblance of freedom for blacks during the 1960/70s time-frame. Following the riots, white got over their introspection period and to break up the gains made by blacks, flooded black neighborhoods with cheap cocaine (crack) which completely reversed all gain made in previous years leaving us with the weakest and least progressive group of blacks in the United States since the abolition of slavery.
Today, since most of Africa's historic history has been intentionally demolished and destroyed, one may come to the false conclusion that studying African history is un-sexy relative to other cultures whose history has been preserved and restored.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
MelaninKing
quote:Today, since most of Africa's historic history has been intentionally demolished and destroyed, one may come to the false conclusion that studying African history is un-sexy relative to other cultures whose history has been preserved and restored.
Loot from the ancient empire of Benin
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=15;t=002559 And the destruction started with the Portuguese on the east coast destroying the Swahili architecture ..hmmm not really it happened in post Kemet with Arabs/Muslims stripping down the pyramids of it's coverings to build mosque and palaces..but in the end some of the descendants of both would say that there wasn't anything there to begin with.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Sauce code if you are there remove that pic before you can't do anything about it..don't be a dick!!!
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Well Brada I don't know. As an aspiring Historian I can tell you that History in general is "Boring"(Try reading some of the books my mainstream historians) but what we as historians do is find something about history we like and be passionate about it. Take Egypt for example, to me the most famous thing about Egypt, the Pyramids are boring as hell. My passion about Egypt is its Temple Architecture and Art.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
MK - You mentioned some interesting names for the civil rights pantheon: Mohammad Ali, Elijah Mohammad, Malcolm X, MLK.
But accept for MLK, you are way off-base. Perhaps Clyde being in Chicago, might have a different perspective. But me being at the time, on the U.S. east coast, I can report on what was going on there.
I know this might sound like sacrilege: but if Malcolm had not been assassinated, we might never have heard of him.
During those times, the Black Muslims were regarded as the shadowy other: known for their recruitment of criminals, a strange religion, a leader with a funny hat, and their insistence on living a certain way. All of these things were, and are, antithetical to everyday American Blacks.
It was only after the publicity surrounding Malcolm's assassination, that we came to hear and understand what he stood for. (At the time, it was only seen as proof of the criminal side to the Black Muslims).
Mohammad Ali had no effect on anything. Everyone wanted desperately for him to get back in the ring, and the Jew, Howard Cosell campaigned tirelessly for that.
In those times, the Panthers were of course very well known. But to the average young Black of those times, the important people were Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, and SNCC: Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. (Both of them later went over to the Panthers).
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Jeri I do think for most folks history is boring but my problem is with folks who are interested in history after all for better or worst most people on this site are historians amateur or professional,it is the seeming lack of interest in certain parts of Africa that got me concern,but as Zarahan pointed out and I realized my view maybe slanted because I spend most of my time on ES so I really don't know what the conscious out there on other site is really like,I am just basing my view on what has been the prevailing attitude here.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Someone you probably never heard of, but should have. Ella Josephine Baker was perhaps the most important woman of the civil rights era - she was the founder of SNCC.
Who would think that this assemblage of Coke-heads (Barry) and pillars of society were once young Black radicals?
Ella Baker, who organized the Shaw conference, had been the SCLC director before helping to form SNCC, but SNCC was not a branch of SCLC. Instead of being closely tied to SCLC or the NAACP as a "youth division", SNCC sought to stand on its own. Among important SNCC leaders attending the conference were Stokely Carmichael from Howard University; Charles F. McDew, who led student protests at South Carolina State University; J. Charles Jones, who organized 200 students to participate in sit-ins at department stores throughout Charlotte, North Carolina; Julian Bond from Atlanta, Diane Nash; James Lawson; John Lewis; Bernard Lafayette; James Bevel; and Marion Barry from the Nashville Student Movement.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: MK - You mentioned some interesting names for the civil rights pantheon: Mohammad Ali, Elijah Mohammad, Malcolm X, MLK.
But accept for MLK, you are way off-base. Perhaps Clyde being in Chicago, might have a different perspective. But me being at the time, on the U.S. east coast, I can report on what was going on there.
I know this might sound like sacrilege: but if Malcolm had not been assassinated, we might never have heard of him.
During those times, the Black Muslims were regarded as the shadowy other: known for their recruitment of criminals, a strange religion, a leader with a funny hat, and their insistence on living a certain way. All of these things were, and are, antithetical to everyday American Blacks.
It was only after the publicity surrounding Malcolm's assassination, that we came to hear and understand what he stood for. (At the time, it was only seen as proof of the criminal side to the Black Muslims).
Mohammad Ali had no effect on anything. Everyone wanted desperately for him to get back in the ring, and the Jew, Howard Cosell campaigned tirelessly for that.
In those times, the Panthers were of course very well known. But to the average young Black of those times, the important people were Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, and SNCC: Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. (Both of them later went over to the Panthers).
Mike
Where I grew up, EVERYONE knew who Elijah Muhammad, The Nation Of Islam and Mohammad Ali were!! the NOI had a profound effect on black America. In many ways much more intimate than that of MLK and The NAACP. because the original NOI members were a part of the Noble Drew Ali Moors, they always offered an Eastern Philosophy angle to the black American experience. That they choose to recruit many of their members through the American prison system, they nurtured a different type of aggressive mentality in their membership version the KING form of passive Negro mentality found in the NAACP and King's Pro-Integration organization.
The two orgs., Passive integration Negroes versus Aggressive separatism black men, forced white America to embrace the lesser of what they considered of the two evils, which of course was; passive Jesus loving Negroes over Marcus Garvey type aggressive NOI members. The NOI showed blacks that they had an alternative to the "turn-The-Other-Cheek" passive MLK system which BTW, mostly appealed to black females.
Why was Mohammad Ali relevant? Ali was one of the first highly visible black men to change their "slave" name for one symbolizing his personal freedom. The dumb former champions of the day such as Patterson, Louis, Terrell, and many others refused to call him by his new name. Rather than Plea with them to accept his reality, Ali instead choose to whip their asses into submission, which he did. Ali was one of the first visible Athletes earning a million dollars to reject fighting in the white man's army. He used his religion as reason and also told whites that he had nothing against Asians, and that it was whites who were his enemy. Once again, the Negroes of the time, all Christians, called Ali stupid names like draft dodger, unpatriotic, etc. in their ignorance while Ali accepted the consequences afflicted onto him by the White establishment in spite of it costing him his title, millions of dollars, and his freedom. Ali became not only the most recognized black man in the world, but transcended boxing to the point where in 1000 years, his legend will be like that of Hercules. Ali showed black America that they could make alternatives choices, and accept the consequences of your actions rather than repeating the same misguided mistakes of the poor choices made by mainstream Negroes like Joe Louis. Still, being Human, Ali stated that one of his major regrets in life was not standing up to protect his true best friend and spiritual brother, Malcolm X, when he needed him most.
Mike, in Chocolate cities like D.C., Baltimore, New York, Detroit, Chicago, everyone knew who Malcolm X was, and what he stood for, well prior to his assassination.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Faces you should know:
The Panthers:
Huey P. Newton
Bobby Seale
Eldridge Cleaver with Kathleen Cleaver
Angela Davis
SNCC
Stokely Carmichael
H. Rap Brown
Marion Barry (today)
Julian Bond
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Ali and Dick Gregory
Idi Amin
Reggie Lewis
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
MK - I can only tell you what I know first hand:
I was in New York when Malcolm was killed, there was no gnashing of teeth. There was no sense of a great leader being killed. It was strictly a crime story. The assassins had already been identified as fellow Muslims, and that sort of thing was not unexpected from Black Muslims.
I was in Illinois when MLK was killed. Then there was gnashing of teeth, because nobody knew how Blacks would respond.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: MK - I can only tell you what I know first hand:
I was in New York when Malcolm was killed, there was no gnashing of teeth. There was no sense of a great leader being killed. It was strictly a crime story. The assassins had already been identified as fellow Muslims, and that sort of thing was not unexpected from Black Muslims.
I was in Illinois when MLK was killed. Then there was gnashing of teeth, because nobody knew how Blacks would respond.
The MX cover was very elaborately staged. The majority of Negroes did not stand with the Nation Of Islam (muslim) and although blacks knew that whites wanted Malcolm dead, the stage pointed the finger at the NOI. What were blacks to do, burn down NOI mosques? I recall a great deal of sadness in New York, and a feeling of helplessness, but you're right. No riots. Still, Malcolm X and Ali were as influential on the black American psyche as MLK and The NOI. Today, the NOI is merely a shell of what it was back then.
Also, regarding the riots, many blacks participated in the riots as a release of their personal frustrations with the system. Many gave no real thought to MLK, were not members of the NAACP, or believed in King's Turn-The-Other-Cheek philosophy, but used King's assassination as a trigger to vent their own release.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Anyone having a young son should give him Dick Gregory's autobiography "Nigger" (1964). It's probably the first book I ever bought for myself.
Unfortunately Dick made himself irrelevant by trying to mimic Gandhi.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ Gregory did very well considering he started out as a ~400lb., Gin guzzling, chain smoking comedian. By all rights, he should have been dead 30 years ago.
His health focus is really needed today with the obese and High Blood Pressure/Diabetes prone Blacks we see today. Dick Gregory's "Cooking With Mother Nature" is a must have cook book, for blacks.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: MK - I can only tell you what I know first hand:
I was in New York when Malcolm was killed, there was no gnashing of teeth. There was no sense of a great leader being killed. It was strictly a crime story. The assassins had already been identified as fellow Muslims, and that sort of thing was not unexpected from Black Muslims.
I was in Illinois when MLK was killed. Then there was gnashing of teeth, because nobody knew how Blacks would respond.
The MX cover was very elaborately staged. The majority of Negroes did not stand with the Nation Of Islam (muslim) and although blacks knew that whites wanted Malcolm dead, the stage pointed the finger at the NOI. What were blacks to do, burn down NOI mosques? I recall a great deal of sadness in New York, and a feeling of helplessness, but you're right. No riots. Still, Malcolm X and Ali were as influential on the black American psyche as MLK and The NOI. Today, the NOI is merely a shell of what it was back then.
Also, regarding the riots, many blacks participated in the riots as a release of their personal frustrations with the system. Many gave no real thought to MLK, were not members of the NAACP, or believed in King's Turn-The-Other-Cheek philosophy, but used King's assassination as a trigger to vent their own release.
No Black Americans did not stand with NOI, and never would. It is just too different. Even though Farrakhan gets trotted out every once in a while, and is cheered, that's as far as it will ever go.
The Turn-The-Other-Cheek philosophy is why I turned away from MLK. But I found the Panthers too scary, them Niggers were crazy! So it was SNCC for me.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Given the choice, which would you have done, Kathleen Cleaver or Angela?
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
Definitely Davis!!!
I'd take Nina Simon over both though.
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: An honest question to all E/S members is the study and discussion of African civilizations outside Kemet boring? I mean we can go weeks even months at time without bringing up a single African civilization outside Kemet/Kush south of the desert and if not for Jeri not even Axum Christian or pagan get paid much attention, we dig deep into European history,Indian,Meso -American,Asian and others and the board are just dominated with those about questions on phenotype and rarely of culture even.. some can trace the history of European royals with exact detail. But what of lands like Ghana were their royals any less important than lets say Bohemians?? Is the rise of Shaka and the political intrigue before and during his reign any less important some Welsh Duke? I mean how important are the descendants of these families are today in either the building up or hampering of Africa's growth.
I am not saying that other areas of the world that Africans touched should not be studied but I only wish more people would put equal emphasis on the more neglected but not devoid of civilization history and culture on other parts of the Continent.
No. This forum has created many threads dedicated to other areas of Africa not pertaining to Nile Valley Civilization, And as far as your point on 'equal emphasis' goes, well not every civilization in Africa has received the same sort of anthropological emphasis as Nile Valley Civilization has.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing:
I'd take Nina Simon over both though. [/qb]
Friday, May 14th 2010 Mary J. Blige To Play Nina Simone In New Film
Posted by Protocol.hD (Member # 6729) on :
^ I don't like these type of women.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ I'd take Nina, but have to leave Mary. I find the mind as equally as attractive as the physical. Mary is vastly lacking in the mental area while Nina's mind is like an angel's.
Posted by Protocol.hD (Member # 6729) on :
I have no use for women that look like men. We're looking at pics here, not assessing their minds.
Posted by MelaninKing (Member # 17444) on :
^ I don't know any man who has real titties and a slit. Nina sho don't sing or write songs like a man either. Mary? She don't write songs, letters, or nothing.
I think you must be a white boy who likes women who look like boy scouts.
Posted by Protocol.hD (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ I don't know any man who has real titties and a slit.
Sure?? Posted by Firewall (Member # 20331) on :
Interesting topic.
Posted by JujuMan (Member # 6729) on :
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