Eurocentrics say that the bust of Menes was created during the 25th Dynasty, but Afrocentrics claim that it is of First Dynasty origin found in Abydos. If archaeologists did find this in a First Dynasty context how do they know it is Menes? Is there any hieroglyphics on the bust that says who it is? Did they find it in association with his mummy? What museum has possession of it and what does it say about it? Does anyone have any evidence in either way? I have never been able to find out the origins of it.
Posted by malibudusul (Member # 19346) on :
The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief
1. Denial and Isolation The first reaction to learning of terminal illness or death of a cherished loved one is to deny the reality of the situation. It is a normal reaction to rationalize overwhelming emotions. It is a defense mechanism that buffers the immediate shock. We block out the words and hide from the facts. This is a temporary response that carries us through the first wave of pain.
2. Anger As the masking effects of denial and isolation begin to wear, reality and its pain re-emerge. We are not ready. The intense emotion is deflected from our vulnerable core, redirected and expressed instead as anger. The anger may be aimed at inanimate objects, complete strangers, friends or family. Anger may be directed at our dying or deceased loved one. Rationally, we know the person is not to be blamed. Emotionally, however, we may resent the person for causing us pain or for leaving us. We feel guilty for being angry, and this makes us more angry.
The doctor who diagnosed the illness and was unable to cure the disease might become a convenient target. Health professionals deal with death and dying every day. That does not make them immune to the suffering of their patients or to those who grieve for them.
Do not hesitate to ask your doctor to give you extra time or to explain just once more the details of your loved one’s illness. Arrange a special appointment or ask that he telephone you at the end of his day. Ask for clear answers to your questions regarding medical diagnosis and treatment. Understand the options available to you. Take your time.
3. Bargaining The normal reaction to feelings of helplessness and vulnerability is often a need to regain control–
If only we had sought medical attention sooner… If only we got a second opinion from another doctor… If only we had tried to be a better person toward them…
Secretly, we may make a deal with God or our higher power in an attempt to postpone the inevitable. This is a weaker line of defense to protect us from the painful reality.
4. Depression Two types of depression are associated with mourning. The first one is a reaction to practical implications relating to the loss. Sadness and regret predominate this type of depression. We worry about the costs and burial. We worry that, in our grief, we have spent less time with others that depend on us. This phase may be eased by simple clarification and reassurance. We may need a bit of helpful cooperation and a few kind words. The second type of depression is more subtle and, in a sense, perhaps more private. It is our quiet preparation to separate and to bid our loved one farewell. Sometimes all we really need is a hug.
5. Acceptance Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone. Death may be sudden and unexpected or we may never see beyond our anger or denial. It is not necessarily a mark of bravery to resist the inevitable and to deny ourselves the opportunity to make our peace. This phase is marked by withdrawal and calm. This is not a period of happiness and must be distinguished from depression.
Posted by malibudusul (Member # 19346) on :
5. Acceptance Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone.
Posted by malibudusul (Member # 19346) on :
There is nothing tying that bust definitely to Menes. No one really knows the age of the bust either.
Posted by rainingburntice (Member # 19436) on :
To Malibudusul:
What does this have to do with the topic? Or are you telling me that you're not quite at number 5 yet? If so please keep your personal business to yourself.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
The 'Scorpion King' Mace head (Ashmolean Museum, Oxford; number: AN1896-1908.E3632) Did a 'King Scorpion' ever exist?
Egyptologists have long debated this question; some think that 'Scorpion' was the earlier name of the figure identified in historical sources as the first ruler of unified Egypt, King Menes or Narmer. Recently, German archaeologists excavating at Abydos, where the first kings of unified Egypt (Dynasty I) were buried, have found a large tomb (tomb 'U-j') where many of the jars and packages in the storerooms had labels including the scorpion-sign -- so new evidence has been added to the debate. But the names of the earliest kings of Egypt are written in a rectangular frame (serekh) symbolic of the royal palace; no writing of the scorpion-sign in such a frame has yet been found. There are other animal-signs, too, on the labels in tomb 'U-j'. Many model scorpions were found in the temple at Hierakonpolis. The scorpion carved on the macehead is shown with a little peg, by which it could have been fitted onto a sceptre or pole - like the standards carried by figures elsewhere on the macehead. So it may signify something other than a personal name -- a geographical name, perhaps; also, the scorpion delivers a vicious potentially fatal sting -- it could be a symbol of power.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
The bust is clearly not 25th dynasty since the style is very archaic and where they found it was with other early dynastic artifacts.
It is the bust of a King and the appearance of it is not that much different than other busts of Kings at the time.
If Euronuts don't like the bust of Menes what do they think of the bust of Huni?
It is reather consistent that any of the non-African appearing artifacts of the early dynastic periods are depiction of none royalty. Clearly they are servants to a king and during this time the Kings were clearly represented in the same manner as Nubians.
This is true of the reserve heads. We had been told for a long time that this head is that of a Nubian queen. Does it look like a female? It is in fact very similar to the facial depiction of Egyptian male royalty at the time. Compare the reserve head's facial features to the bust of Huni.
Nothing to do with the 25th Dynasty. Also it should be noted that this is the largest reserve head, the most well preserved one, and was found in a royal tomb. The other heads are essentially of servants to this king.
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
Great post Osirion.
Another important thing to mention is the supposedly bust of Narmer has been featured on publications exploring the early formation of Dynastic Egypt.
A book to consider for example:
This only further disproves the myth of the bust representing a King from the 25th Dynasty as all anthropological evidence points it to early Dynastic Period of Egyptian civilization.
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Eurocentrics say that the bust of Menes was created during the 25th Dynasty, but Afrocentrics claim that it is of First Dynasty origin found in Abydos. If archaeologists did find this in a First Dynasty context how do they know it is Menes? Is there any hieroglyphics on the bust that says who it is? Did they find it in association with his mummy? What museum has possession of it and what does it say about it? Does anyone have any evidence in either way? I have never been able to find out the origins of it.
Archeologist do not know precisely if the bust represents Menes. However, archeological analysis of artifacts from where the bust was found involving the bust in question dates to an early dynastic period in Egyptian civilization. The bust was discovered in a royal tomb by William Petrie at Abydos in 1884 and now currently resides in the The Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology.
For more information I suggest the following bibliography;
quote: • The Making of Egypt, 1939 by English Archeologist William Petrie • Early Dynastic Egypt by Egyptologist Toby A.H Wilkinson. • Protodynastic Egypt by Archeologist Barbara Adams • Egyptian sculpture, archaic to saite by Archeologist Anthea Page.
Posted by cassiterides (Member # 18409) on :
Bust of Menes (Manishtushu/Manaysu/Minos) c. 2655 BC -
Menes had blue eyes -
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Eurocentrics say that the bust of Menes was created during the 25th Dynasty, but Afrocentrics claim that it is of First Dynasty origin found in Abydos. If archaeologists did find this in a First Dynasty context how do they know it is Menes? Is there any hieroglyphics on the bust that says who it is? Did they find it in association with his mummy? What museum has possession of it and what does it say about it? Does anyone have any evidence in either way? I have never been able to find out the origins of it.
You neglected to include an image, presume you mean
posted by Sahel (Siptah)
How much of an investigation did you do on the subject?
W.M.F. Petrie bought this figurine head in Cairo. In the 1939 edition of The Making of Egypt it's announced as an image of Menes/Narmer of the 1st Dynasty. So say nearly all 20th century books on Egyptian art chosing to feature the figurine head.
The hateful Eurocentric 25th Dynasty lie is nothing but a melanophobic knee jerk reaction because of one of the Petrie plates Diop included in his book African Origin of Civilization. The white supremist M.O. is racialist anti-black in its simplicity; if something is undeniably black relegate it to the 25th Dynasty era of Sudani rule over Nile Valley and southern Levant.
Currently housed in the University College of London's Petrie Museum whose website has these photos and text
Both images here produced slightly over actual size of figurine head.
figurines
UC15989
Limestone head of man, flat back and top, broken off at chin level. Thought by Petrie to be head of King Narmer. Bought by Petrie in Cairo
Period: Dynasty 1
Materials: limestone
Dimensions: height: 12.3 cms _______ 10.0 cms width: 13.4 cms
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
.
lioness productions
.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Bust of Menes (Manishtushu/Manaysu/Minos) c. 2655 BC -
Menes had blue eyes -
Poor attempt at stealing history.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Bust of Menes (Manishtushu/Manaysu/Minos) c. 2655 BC -
Menes had blue eyes -
lol,
When we need some good entertaining clown around. You are always welcome.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: .
lioness productions
.
Another weak release.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Bust of Menes (Manishtushu/Manaysu/Minos) c. 2655 BC -
Menes had blue eyes -
says Junior the Retard... Posted by rainingburntice (Member # 19436) on :
Thanks for all responses! Does anyone have any information about the crown? It appears similar to the lower portion of the Deshret!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Thanks for all responses! Does anyone have any information about the crown? It appears similar to the lower portion of the Deshret!
Tutankhamun, Luxor Museum
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Thanks for all responses! Does anyone have any information about the crown? It appears similar to the lower portion of the Deshret!
Tutankhamun, Luxor Museum
Case in point is, that some like the last one are metaphorical. Showing elements, relation and fusion to/ with elder gods.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Thanks for all responses! Does anyone have any information about the crown? It appears similar to the lower portion of the Deshret!
It is known as the Amun crown or headdress after the god Amun. Such a headdress originally had erect ostrich plumes.
By the way, the Amun crown was also the traditional crown of the Kushites and other Nubian kings since before Egyptian conquest in the New Kingdom.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Eurocentrics say that the bust of Menes was created during the 25th Dynasty, but Afrocentrics claim that it is of First Dynasty origin found in Abydos. If archaeologists did find this in a First Dynasty context how do they know it is Menes? Is there any hieroglyphics on the bust that says who it is? Did they find it in association with his mummy? What museum has possession of it and what does it say about it? Does anyone have any evidence in either way? I have never been able to find out the origins of it.
You know it's funny Eurocentrics dismiss the alleged Narmer bust of the 1st dynasty as being from the Kushite 25th dynasty considering that late predynastic and proto-dynastic Egyptian rulers (like Narmer) themselves looked no different from the Kushites.
"the close clustering of Badari and Naqada with Kerma exemplifies the possible relationship of Nubians to Egyptians. Originally, the Nubian A-Group was thought to be Badarian in origin (Reisner, 1910). However, later work (Adams, 1977; Godde, 2009a) established that the A-Group were actually Nubian. Comparisons of C-Group and Pan-Grave Nubians to Badari and Hierakonpolis separate Badari from the other samples, indicating no biological affinities with these earlier Nubian groups (Godde, 2009b). The reoccurring notation of Kerma affinities with Egyptian groups is not entirely surprising. Kerma was an integral part of the trade between Egypt and Nubia." Godde K. (2009) An Examination Of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances. Support for biological diffusion of in situ development
"The predominant craniometric pattern in the Abydos royal tombs is 'southern' (tropical African variant), and this is consistent with what would be expected based on the literature and other results... ..the Nagada and Kerma series are so similar that they were barely distinguishable in the territorial maps... they subsume the first dynasty series from Abydos." S.O.Y. Keita, Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa
"His (Sekenenra Tao) entire facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs (it is closest in fact to his son Ahmose) that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian- that is, non-Egyptian-origin for Sequenre and his family, and his facial features suggest that this might indeed be true." James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies
Is it any wonder why Euronuts like Mathilda and Dienekes now claim Nubians including Kushites as being "caucasoids" also? Posted by rainingburntice (Member # 19436) on :
To Djehuti:
"Is it any wonder why Euronuts like Mathilda and Dienekes now claim Nubians including Kushites as being "caucasoids" also?"
They do? I didn't know that. It is puzzling that they would claim such a thing!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Of course they do. Just search Mathilda and Dienekes works or better yet do an internet search on 'caucasian' Nubians and you'll see what I mean. There is nothing "puzzling" about it. The ancient Egyptians as indigenous peoples of northeast Africa naturally possessed the closest affinities and relations with other indigenous northeast Africans like Nubians which is why Eurocentric white-wash has extended to them. And since northeast Africans in turn show relation to other Africans in Sub-Sahara, there are even studies that try to extend this white-wash to Africans as far south as Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, and even Tanzania!! The myth of African 'caucasoids' is quite pervasive in Western Academic history and has been revived in various forms and guises with the latest being genetics.
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
Specifics on the bust and how it was purchased are not indexed.
I was under the impression Petrie discovered the bust at a Necropolis dating to the early dynastic at Abydos. I now stand corrected.
I'm thinking perhaps Amelineau discovered the bust at Abydos and auctioned it at Cairo which was later purchased by Petrie since he had an earlier excavation of the royal cemetery than Petrie.
The publications i listed features the presumed figurine head of Narmer and furthermore contains information of excavated artifacts dating to the early dynastic period where the head was discovered, most likely at Abydos during the 19th century.
You never know what people are looking for, na mean? Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by rainingburntice: Eurocentrics say that the bust of Menes was created during the 25th Dynasty, but Afrocentrics claim that it is of First Dynasty origin found in Abydos. If archaeologists did find this in a First Dynasty context how do they know it is Menes? Is there any hieroglyphics on the bust that says who it is? Did they find it in association with his mummy? What museum has possession of it and what does it say about it? Does anyone have any evidence in either way? I have never been able to find out the origins of it.
^^^ I looked inside this book. The picture on the cover is labeled second dynasty according to Raffaele. I may have overlooked it but I do not see any other mention of this head in the text. I mistakenly thought that the head was of the 25th dynasty a while ago because I saw it labled that way on a website and didn't realize the date was controversial. to be exact unknown. I don't know of any books that say it was from the 25th dynasty but a website may (unreliable)
No one knows the origin of it and no one will ever know. You can't carbon date stone.
Petrie never stated where or who he bought it from as far as I know.
_discussion from another forum below: _________________________________________________________
Adams-Cialowicz 'Protodynastic Egypt' 1997 p. 61 fig. 43. Here is reported, in the caption, that Petrie said it was of Narmer. But I ignore where it was published first and where Petrie stated it was of Narmer (no trace before 1912, History of Eg. 7th ed). Note that Petrie identified Menes with Aha, not Narmer. I ll make a research.
For the scarce material we have of Early Dyn. royal statuary I must say that any date from Ka - Narmer to Early Second Dynasty could be possible (thus a range of c. 250 years).
Wilkinson's Early Dynastic Egypt 1999 has this one on the cover and the caption assigns it to the "Second Dynasty".
On stylistic bases I would consider the Early 2nd dyn a little less probable than Early 1st dyn. This sculpture is different from the other royal heads we know, but the closest (despite slightly) parallel is with the ivory statuette from Abydos (also said of Narmer by Petrie, in Abydos II, 1903 p. 24, Pl. II,3 and XIII,1 , but probably datable to Den or few later) and with the Statuette of Ninetjer published by Simpson (J.E.A. 42, cfr. the first link to my site for both the pieces) but the authenticity of the latter has been seriously challenged by Dreyer (in 'Elephantine VIII',1986 p.65 note 164).
Nothing more can be said of the Limestone head in object which is unprovenanced (I don't even know when did it entered the U.C. museum).
> who did Petrie buy the head from?
Only Petrie knew it
Francesco Raffaele _________________________________________________
As an experiment I compared this head we are talking about to Pharoah Taharqa of the 25th dynasty
there's a resemblance but I can't say it is not coincidence. Notable is the prominant wideness of the head
The crown on the head is the Amun-crown as Djhooti pointed out. This Amun type crown is first attested to during the reign of Nebhepetre Montuhotep II, when Amun became the dominant deity of the pantheon.
Montuhotep II, with Amun Crown
Montuhotep II
I don't know why nobody had mentioned this before, if the crown of Amun is not attested to until the 11th dynasty how could the head in question be Narmer or Menes?
Lp
.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
No serious research written up and published has ever tried to relegate the figurine head to any but either the archaic period or the Old Kingdom.
Anyone specifically stating Dynasty 25 does so in preference of misomelanic sloppy pseudo"scholars" whose aim is only to downplay and deny the very humanity of African people. People posting here who rely on misomelanic websites are themselves haters of blacks or at the very least melanphobic.
Though shown without a doubt that no Egyptologist or historian postulates a 25th Dynasty manufacture of the figurine head melanophobes still underhandedly attempt to attach it to the 25th Dynasty by comparing it 25th Dynasty statuary in favor of racially biased web only sources, deceptively refusing to even consider pre-Dynasty 5 sculpture.
Here is another early Egyptian statue whose head compares favorably to the "Narmer" figurine head.
Khufu, Old Kingdom 4th Dynasty Great Pyramid Pharaoh
I am sure there are other 3D and 2D images of its like. Anybody who has any such please post them in this thread.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: No serious research written up and published has ever tried to relegate the figurine head to any but either the archaic period or the Old Kingdom.
There is no research that supports the head being from the archaic period or the Old Kingdom. The only thing that supports the idea is that Petrie had a caption in a book labeling it so. However as you pointed out he bought it in Cairo. And he does not comment on it in he books as far as I know, I have looked for the comment in his books and not found any. As is stated by the Petrie Museum London, the item is offically of "unknown provenance" but "perhaps Narmer".
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: misomelanic...
^^^ this is a word ???
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri:
Though shown without a doubt that no Egyptologist or historian postulates a 25th Dynasty manufacture of the figurine head melanophobes still underhandedly attempt to attach it to the 25th Dynasty by comparing it 25th Dynasty statuary in favor of racially biased web only sources, deceptively refusing to even consider pre-Dynasty 5 sculpture.
Here is another early Egyptian statue whose head compares favorably to the "Narmer" figurine head.
Khufu, Old Kingdom 4th Dynasty Great Pyramid Pharaoh
I am sure there are other 3D and 2D images of its like. Anybody who has any such please post them in this thread. [/QB]
^^^^ this is a good point.
I had read the following on the touregypt website:
The Amun Crown , a flat base like that of the Red Crown augmented by a pair of tall feathers, is the typical crown of the god Amun, but it can also be worn by a king. It appears to associate the ruler with Amun and to legitimate his rule under the god's protection. This crown is first attested to during the reign of Nebhepetre Montuhotep I, when Amun became the dominant deity of the pantheon. That crown may have been called the hnw. Its base alone is worn occasionally by kings and more commonly by queens, of the 18th Dynasty. The Amun crown can be adorned with horns, disks and uraei.
this entry on Egyptian crowns has a solid bibliography listed at the bottom.
However there is this 4th dynasty sculpture of Khufu with what appears to be the "Amun Crown". This suggets that the above description of the crown is wrong that the crown was not first attested to in the 11th dynasty but goes back at least to the 4th and secondly it is not specifically related to when Amun became the then dominant deity of the pantheon during the reign of Montuhotep.
Proof of this seems to rest soley on this 3 inch figure of Khufu above.
However Zahi Hawass has written an extensive article questioning the provenance of this statuette:
Barry Kemp concluded that ther is no clear evidence that building K can be dated to the IV dynasty. The inscription does not prove it, read the article, detailed evidence is presented .
.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Interesting.
Hawass claims it can't be OK because of disimularities re many other OK pieces.
Yet Hawass claims it's a 26th Dyn copy of a 4th Dyn statue.
Hawass confuses me here. As a 4th D work he says it's not looking like a 4th D work.
As a 26th D work Hawass says it's looking like a 4th D work.
Which is it? It simultaneously looks like a 4th D product and does not look like a 4th D product.
In any event Hawass controlled all Egyptology in Egypt. If he believed his own theory why didn't he correct the the Egyptian Museum of Cairo's placard describing the statuette?
^ Then again, Hawass is a very confused man himself. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ The is Amun with the Amun Crown. Two large yellow feathers are attached to the top. In free standing sculptures we often see the crown without it's feathers
The main difference is at the back part of the crown which projects upward, not a feather it is part of the crown itself.
^^^ This is the statuette of Khufu from a side view. This is the red crown. We can see the stub of the back part that projects upward. Most of it has broken off but the stub is clearly showing. Egyptologists identify the crown that Khufu is wearing in this statuette as the red crown.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Good analysis and presentation. If only you'd do all your posts so.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
This too was already responded to and debunked. Yet, the desperate pathetic simpleminded idiot hilly billy comes back again with the same....rubbish. SMH
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
This too was already responded to and debunked. Yet, the desperate pathetic simpleminded idiot hilly billy comes back again with the same....rubbish. SMH
What do you mean debunked? You haven't debunked anything. You don't even have an argument. Where's your source that proves that this statue isn't real?
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
6TH DYN Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
What is taking the dumbo patrol so long to reply? I've showed the dumbo a true representation of a white male all the way down to the skin tone, and the dumbo can't reply with a debunking source to prove it's a fake? I'm beginning to think the dumbo is a fake.lol
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
This too was already responded to and debunked. Yet, the desperate pathetic simpleminded idiot hilly billy comes back again with the same....rubbish. SMH
Why fall for bait? If she wants to believe its a white man. Let her believe its a white man. Stop falling for the okie doke.
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
Relief fragment of pharaoh Sanakht, shown in the pose of smiting an enemy. On display at the British Museum. ca. 2686–2667 BC, 3rd Dynasty.
Sanakht is depicted with a red crown.
Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
This too was already responded to and debunked. Yet, the desperate pathetic simpleminded idiot hilly billy comes back again with the same....rubbish. SMH
Why fall for bait? If she wants to believe its a white man. Let her believe its a white man. Stop falling for the okie doke.
What's the matter? Are you scared? Why don't you prove it's a fake or that of a black man? Go ahead. We all want to hear your side of the story. If dumbo is afraid, then maybe you can fill us in on the details.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Of course the bust is authentic! Nobody suggested otherwise, but do you really believe it portrays a white man??! LMAO
quote:Originally posted by Simpleton: The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. **And that is all the way down to the color of the individual**.
Assuming that the color of the bust really does depict his actual complexion in life. What white person have you seen to have such a skin complexion?? Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
This too was already responded to and debunked. Yet, the desperate pathetic simpleminded idiot hilly billy comes back again with the same....rubbish. SMH
What do you mean debunked? You haven't debunked anything. You don't even have an argument. Where's your source that proves that this statue isn't real?
Not only are you just plain dumb, but also senile.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: What is taking the dumbo patrol so long to reply? I've showed the dumbo a true representation of a white male all the way down to the skin tone, and the dumbo can't reply with a debunking source to prove it's a fake? I'm beginning to think the dumbo is a fake.lol
While calling people dumb, you are so retarded that you can't understand that we do not all live in the same time zone. hence do not all post during the same time. lol at this retard. And besides that, not everybody is going to spend all the time sitting her posting, especially to senile idiot like you.
That is not a white male representation, retarded redneck clown. Those are the features of endignious Northeast Africans. And this was already shown, months ago. Desperate senile idiot.
Contour Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Of course the bust is authentic! Nobody suggested otherwise, but do you really believe it portrays a white man??! LMAO
quote:Originally posted by Simpleton: The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. **And that is all the way down to the color of the individual**.
Assuming that the color of the bust really does depict his actual complexion in life. What white person have you seen to have such a skin complexion??
Right on!
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: Pictured below is a true 4th dynasty statue with an honest attempt at true realism, and not some obscure 2 1/2" idealistic statue that may or may not be of the 4th dynasty. The artist that created the artwork below went through painstaking detail to create as real of an image as possible of prince Ankhaff. And that is all the way down to the color of the individual.
This too was already responded to and debunked. Yet, the desperate pathetic simpleminded idiot hilly billy comes back again with the same....rubbish. SMH
Why fall for bait? If she wants to believe its a white man. Let her believe its a white man. Stop falling for the okie doke.
Siptah you're right,
But at times the stupid arrogance and ignorance gets annoying.
^ What does it matter the source of the picture? Regardless, the bust obviously depicts an African.
The features are no different from east Africans and even a side profile reveals slight prognathism.
The features as well as color look no different from these Ethiopians.
Of course I expect the Simpleton and her ilk to come back with the debunked nonsense about Ethiopians being "60%" caucasian.
quote:Originally posted by malibudusul:
Obviously the Simpleton, Castrated, and others are still in stage 1. DENIAL. Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
^An overbite doesn't equate to being a negroid. And a darkened photograph doesn't help your case either.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Assuming that the color of the bust really does depict his actual complexion in life. What white person have you seen to have such a skin complexion?? [/QB]
some people that have a similar complexion:
Djehuti you cannot deny the fact that there is a wide variety of people African and non African who have similar skin tones.
.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Either you have eyesight problems or as usual you are LYING if you think all those people above have the same complexion. It is obvious to anyone with decent eyesight and a decent functioning mind that those different photos have different lighting that gives the impression of similar skin tone, but if all those people were standing together in the same lighting the differences would be more striking.
quote:Originally posted by Simpleton: ^An overbite doesn't equate to being a negroid. And a darkened photograph doesn't help your case either.
LMAO Apparently you don't know the difference between typical overbite and alveolar prognathism.
Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans.--P.K. Manansala
Sorry but Prince Ankhaf can't save your dumbass either. Posted by Simple Girl (Member # 16578) on :
^ Wow this guy is a real fruitcake if he thinks that prince Ankhhaf is presented here as a full blown negro because his upper jaw is jutted forward a little bit.lol....What about all those pictures of north Africans you and the others keep posting that are clearly mixed and trying to pass off as full blown negroes? If any of those don't have prognathism, can we assume they are full blown caucasians?lol....You don't know when you've been beaten do you?
That's the funny part about it thimble head. You keep on and on with your ridiculous notions and you end up looking the fool you are.lol...Prince Ankhhaf was clearly not a negro. Everything screams caucasian on this one thimble head. All the way down to the jagged hairline and the skin tone. A real nice rare example of realism in early ancient Egyptian art.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Hey Simpleton, apparently what I cited flew right past your thimble warped mind. Prince Ankhaf like many Egyptian royals possessed alveolar prognathism which is a common African trait. Of course that wasn't the only trait he had, and by the way there is no such thing as "negro" or "caucasian" since those are bankrupt and invalid concepts just like your very thinking!
By April 1927 the bust had been almost completely overpainted see below:
LOL One of the few times your friend lyinass was actually honest!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djhoopti:
As for the color of the bust...
you don't seem to be that bright, the above is a black and white photo
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Either you have eyesight problems or as usual you are LYING if you think all those people above have the same complexion. It is obvious to anyone with decent eyesight and a decent functioning mind that those different photos have different lighting that gives the impression of similar skin tone, but if all those people were standing together in the same lighting the differences would be more striking.
quote:Originally posted by Simpleton: ^An overbite doesn't equate to being a negroid. And a darkened photograph doesn't help your case either.
LMAO Apparently you don't know the difference between typical overbite and alveolar prognathism.
Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans.--P.K. Manansala
Sorry but Prince Ankhaf can't save your dumbass either.
Native men, from the same region.
* This man even has the same color complexion. Hair line, shape in eyebrows etc...all the minor details.
The simpleton is hilarious.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Djhoopti:
As for the color of the bust...
you don't seem to be that bright, the above is a black and white photo
And the pictures you've posted. Those folks have nothing to do with the people, the history and region of the Nile Valley, as usually. Arrogant ignorant asshole.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yes the lyinass has a strange habit of posting pictures of modern day people of every other region in Eurasia except Africa, let alone Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by the squirming lyinass now desperate to backtrack:
you don't seem to be that bright, the above is a black and white photo.
I KNOW they are black and white photos! I can see that with my own eyes!! I merely bring up the point you made on another thread that the paint job on the bust that we see today is NOT original! Or maybe it is YOU who is not that bright since you miss the very point of your own post! ROTFLOL Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
Native men, from the same region.
* This man even has the same color complexion. Hair line, shape in eyebrows etc...all the minor details.
The simpleton is hilarious.
The Simpleton is just desperate because it is already proven that the 'bust of Menes' does indeed come from the proto-dynastic period, so she now turns to another bust of Prince Ankhaf. Unfortunately for her Ankhaf was a member of the Giza royal family and the Giza royals like Menes all possess affinities to 25th dynasty Kushites!
"The predominant craniometric pattern in the Abydos royal tombs is 'southern' (tropical African variant), and this is consistent with what would be expected based on the literature and other results... the Nagada and Kerma series are so similar that they were barely distinguishable in the territorial maps... they subsume the first dynasty series from Abydos." S.O.Y. Keita, Studies of Ancient Crania From Northern Africa
"His (Sekenenra Tao) entire facial complex, in fact, is so different from other pharaohs (it is closest in fact to his son Ahmose) that he could be fitted more easily into the series of Nubian and Old Kingdom Giza skulls than into that of later Egyptian kings. Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian- that is, non-Egyptian-origin for Sequenre and his family, and his facial features suggest that this might indeed be true." James Harris & Edward Wente, X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies
Poor simpleton. I can roll her thimble brain between my thumb and index finger. Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Assuming that the color of the bust really does depict his actual complexion in life. What white person have you seen to have such a skin complexion??
some people that have a similar complexion:
Djehuti you cannot deny the fact that there is a wide variety of people African and non African who have similar skin tones.
. [/QB]
I wonder if lyins are as color-blind than dogs. U really need to do something about that problem or else take ur shades off.
Fact: Color-blind humans share identical sets of visual pigments with elephants. Lions share the same type of vision as a household cat.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
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