The main purpose of this page is educational in the sense that I got the idea after looking at this interesting link showing the hundreds of symbols used on coats of arms and family crests:
Did you check out the above link? Impressive how astute the ancients were and how broadly educated they were expected to be and needed to be.
AFRICAN TRADITIONS FOUND IN EUROPE: This assigning of meaning to symbols is an African tradition where each tribe used to have hundreds of symbols for things and found throughout art. This leads one to notice other features of Africa found in Europe; leading to the conclusion that black Europe came from Africa. Here are a few:
1. King and Queenship: in Africa, not only king but queen mother for all tribes 2. As in Egypt, king is representative of God on earth 3. Succession denoted through the carrying on of through ordinal numbers carried on in same name: Neferkare II, Neferkare II, Neferkare III, Otto I, Otto II, Otto III. 4. Masonry. As simple an idea as the brick building and one that is ornamented.
So far as I can see, the earliest examples of royals with coats of arms is in the early Middle Ages and is with black royals, not white.
Leads you to believe that the tradition began black given the prominence of black royals throughout the early and middle Middle Ages (and growing absence thereafter and now there are none).
In essence, though, this thread is about coats of arms of early and middle Middle Ages as being evocative of these being a black thing that later became a white thing.
Here are some examples:
Coat of arms of Wenceslas, lower right corner:
Coat of arms in pictures of both William of Orange and Anna of Saxony
Some history:
...displays are commonly called armorial bearings, armorial devices, heraldic devices, or simply armorials or arms.
Historically, armorial bearings were first used by feudal lords and knights in the mid-12th century on battlefields as a way to identify allied from enemy soldiers.
It was during this time and centuries earlier that black royals proliferated. Then Europe became white by degrees and today almost wholly is save for migrants.
. .
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Marc - Is there any way to track down what book those drawings are in?
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
Little (Scotland) (My Maternal Grandmother's surname)
Bryant (My Paternal G-Grandmother's surname)
Winningham (My Maternal Grandfather's surname)
Steele (my other Paternal G-Grandmother's surname) not a good copy.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^^What about Prince Charles? I thought your biological father was Price Charles??
Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
IronLiar you are a complete and total moron. No where have I claimed that big eared goober Prince Charles was my father LOL. Prince Charles is still alive my biological father is DEAD you stupid poc.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
^^^^ Willam of Orange
same painting in color:
Below also William of Orange
At top a painting of William or Orange posted by Mike111. Below it the same painting in color. Below that another painting of Willam of Orange at an older age with a slighty longer haircut.
There is no contradition here. We are looking at realistic portraits of William of Orange done by court painters who painted him in person. Are we looking at a black person? That's up for grabs. But why think so when there is no record that suggests he had African ancestry. In the painting with shorter cropped hair he sort of has a somewhat mulatto look. Was he mulatto? Look at another painting when he was older. His hair seems to be straight and his complection tawny, similar to many European Spainiards. That's about all you can say, doesn't make him Spanish either. And there is no record that suggests he had African ancestry. The engraving posted earlier is in black and white not made in person. It's less reliable and appears that his skin tone is exaggeratedly dark or perhaps a tan. Going by the paintings and features in either the painting or engraving he is not obviously black looking like the below rendition of St. Maurice:
detail from Erasmus and St. Maurice
Erasmus and St. Maurice
^^^^ look at this, St Maurice depicted as a black man and acknowledged as such by mainstream white European Art Historians as depicted as black here and also in the Magdeburg Cathedral sculpture. St. Erasmus is depicted as white. There's no conspiracy here. There were some blacks in medieval Europe everyone agrees. Were they the majority? No
Now go back to the two color paintings of Willam of Orange. In one he's younger in the other older. Both are faithful realistic potraits of him. People in this thread are bascially willfully ignoring the one where he's older and going to the younger one (posting a black and white version to try to make things more ambiguous) and then suggesting "hey he looks kinda sorta black doesn't he, this must mean medieval Europe was black" (not as black as St. Maurice but at least some kind of mulatto or quadroon Europe ie one drop rule )
When the Hair of a white person is cut very short it looks more ambiguous, harder to distinguish from an afro because it isn't allowed enough length to express it's form clearly. But in the older portrait his hair is slightly longer and there you can see it's type. Was he black, mulatto or quadroon? I don't think you can assume that. It's uncertain and there isn't any historical record to suggest he was. What can we say about him? He had a light brownish complexion, that's about it. Look let's say you simply don't like the older portrait of William and you wasnt to stick with the younger one, stick with a black and white reproduction and try to use this painting as proof 1555 medieval Europe was predominantly black. The artist Anthonis Mor must have been a truth teller. And look his last name is "Mor" . That makes him even more of a truth teller he was probably black himself. Well let's look at some more context. Let's look at other paintings by this Anthonis Mor for more truth: Sel Portrait Anthonis Mor
^^^well look at him he's kinda light brownish that makes him black right. Couldn't be Southern European right?
here's another painting of Anthonis Mor by another artist Sir Thomas Gresham, ca.1560
^^Well he is apparently brownish. That's a victory right? That means he's black right? That means all of Europe was black right?
yeah but I could post photos of tons of Southern Europeans and Turks who are somewhat dark like that. But because it is not a photo for some reason all these ambigous paintings are of black people.
Let's look at some more Anthonis Mor paintings Portrait of Steven van Herwijck (c.1530- 1565/67).
^^^^ well we have an obvious white guy, not a tawny European that looks like he could have "black" tendancies from the right angle.
Look at all these "finds" you have. Hw many of them are full on black looking peopole like St. Maurice?
You try to to say that anything you don't like is "fake" and lightened. Ok then why is there this light brownish William of Orange? Why didn't they make him pale white to make it it crystal clear he couldn't have been black(or even mulatto) ??? Well Anthonis Mor and Grünewald who painted St. Erasmus must be the painters who told the true story of black Europe.
Ok fine, now look at all of Anthonis Mor's paintings and all of Grünewald's painting for the complete picture not just the cherry picked.
Ok, so you have fancy explanation. The Anthonis Mor and Grunwald paintings you like are real and the ones you don't like are "fake" - but keep this in mind, think about this carefully:
If you want to say that Europe was black until white from Central Asia realize that in order to take over Europe they had to have a poplation of millions in order to do this. And if this was in the early centuries of the AD period that means that a great many of the medieval kings and nobles were white. So even in your own scenario you can't say that this of that painting is fake and "whitened" becasue even in your scenario there had to multi millions of whites in the mdeieval period to be able to conquer the alleged multi millions of dark skinned black with afros who were there.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
Perfect example of what me and Iron are saying. Whites were late-comers to the European mainland and England as witnessed by this migratory map (one of zillions recording these details to England):
Prior to their arrival were the Moors:
Whites came, mixed with the Moors and you get the offspring. The white descendents of the Moors carrying on their family names:
Hence, a brief history of the white Moors (and other such whites carrying names of Moors existent before white migration to England, Scotland, Wales, etc. . .
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
I could not print certain portraits here, the site blocked them.
I notice that the American friends have some weakness of mind not being able to look at a realistic looking painted portrait and realise it can still be 100% fake.
The glamorous brownish The Key portrait of William of Orange was an anomaly and made him handsome as an actor. He was handsome, but not that much. He is described as brown of complexion and depicted many times as such. I go by the description and look at the features offered by whitened or half-whitened portraits.
William of Orange will be the main attraction of my museum, along with Jane Austen. The study will sell for € 25.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. . ENGLAND, WALES, SCOTLAND, IRELAND, AND THE UNITED KINGDOM IN ITS BLACK PHASE
Marc the white European aristocrats liked to use generic black people's head in addition to mythological symbols in their herladry. They are like mascots.
When you look at the portraits of the people in the families of these coats of arms are associated with their features and complections look nothing like the Moors heads in their herladry.
In their heraldry they never put an actual member of the family much less their first and last name below them. Why? because the Moor heads on the heraldry are not pictures of any member of that family, they are symbols and they are not symbols of the racial ancestry of the family any more than a lawn jockey is.
^^^ this movement is all far prior to the periods of all the paintings and illustrations being discussed
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
"They are like mascots."
You wish.
. .
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness I told you over and over again but you won't listen one has to look at each individual coat of arms,some represent defeated enemies,some like Sir Hawkins was that of his slave trading expiditions. Yet others with the name Moor and it's variants shown in concert with the Blacks are actual founders of those families stop with your cookie cutter approach in regards to the subject.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
Marc the white European aristocrats liked to use generic black people's head in addition to mythological symbols in their herladry. They are like mascots. blah ..blah..blah..
Muurz:
Wild men:
Muurz:
Wildmen:
Any Muur questions? Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Solvenia Muurs
Wildmen:
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Yet others with the name Moor and it's variants shown in concert with the Blacks are actual founders of those families stop with your cookie cutter approach in regards to the subject. [/QB]
name one such family
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
A few family names:
. .
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Yet others with the name Moor and it's variants shown in concert with the Blacks are actual founders of those families stop with your cookie cutter approach in regards to the subject. [/QB] name one such family
How about thirty on this collage alone.
Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
Ohhh look Marc uses a biased White people hating, Black racist, Black supremacist unqualified "scholar" like Van Sertima, a man who has been debunked so many times its pathetic as a source LOL.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Illustration of a short-statured Ainu from David MacRitchie's The Testimony of Tradition (1890). MacRitchie believed the native inhabitants of Britain looked similar. MacRitchie himself argued in his Testimony of Tradition, under a chapter subheading entitled "A Hairy Race" (p. 167) that they were somewhat connected to the Lapps or Eskimos, but were a distinct race because of their very long beards, concluding: "one seems to see the type of a race that was even more like the Ainu than the Lapp, or the Eskimo, although closely connected in various ways with all of these" (p. 173). In MacRitchie's view the indigenous population of Britain were thus a "quasi-European" Ainu race, with minor Mongoloid traits who he considered ancestral to the Picts, a view earlier proposed by Walter Scott
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
What in God's heaven are you talking about?
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Lioness
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Yet others with the name Moor and it's variants shown in concert with the Blacks are actual founders of those families stop with your cookie cutter approach in regards to the subject. name one such family
How about thirty on this collage alone. [/QB]
The names on that image are unreadable. I ask you to name one black family of nobles in Europe
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: . .
What in God's heaven are you talking about?
. .
I'm talking about statments made about by David MacRitchie about who he thought were native Britons in his 1890 book The Testimony of Tradition
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
"The names on that image are unreadable. I ask you to name one black family of nobles in Europe"
He gave you not one but many names.
He is not your little servant.
If you want to find them in a more readable format, look them up yourself if it's that important to you.
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: "The names on that image are unreadable. I ask you to name one black family of nobles in Europe"
He gave you not one but many names.
He is not your little servant.
If you want to find them in a more readable format, look them up yourself if it's that important to you.
. .
Marc, Brada can speak for himself, back up
The fact that some Europeans had the name Moore and so on makes them no more black than Sir Thomas Moore:
or no more black than Charles Green was a descendant of Green people Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
, ,
When I want your opinion I'll give it to you.
. .
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness if you squint and move in closer to your monitor screen you can make out quite a few names such as Moor,Moureau,Mourana,Mouryan,Morel and so on or you could do as Marc suggest If you want to find them in a more readable format, look them up yourself if it's that important to you.
Which is hard to do btw because the source is being up dated but will be available shortly.
And yes Lioness I know that Moor in some cases may mean bleak land scape in English,but how does that work when Noir, Negro,Nigri, Black man Black son,is also shown in concert with black men or women on the same crest.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
DHDoxies
quote:Ohhh look Marc uses a biased White people hating, Black racist, Black supremacist unqualified "scholar" like Van Sertima, a man who has been debunked so many times its pathetic as a source LOL
While many criticize his work the African Presence In Early America how is he a racist,Black supremacist unqualified scholar I have never seen in a lecture or read any works of his that was anti anyone,as a matter of fact he goes out of his way to state that advance culture complex in the Americas did not fall from an African heaven
quote:, I made my position on this matter very clear. I never said that Africans created or founded American civilization. I said they made contact and all significant contact between two peoples lead to influences. "I think it is necessary to make it clear - since partisan and ethnocentric scholarship seems to be the order of the day - that the emergence of the Negroid face, which the archeological and cultural data overwhelmingly confirm, in no way presupposes the lack of a native originality, the absence of other influences or the automatic eclipse of other faces"-p. 147 of "They Came Before Columbus." See also Journal of African Civilizations, Vol 8, No. 2, 1986 "I cannot subscribe to the notion that civilization suddenly dropped onto the American earth from the Egyptian heaven."
And lemme just say this, many I have seen making claims or purposing theories on new world contacts everyone from Thor Heyerdahl to Berry Fell,they may not have liked their theories but attacks like that I haven't seen,imagine the nerve of this Black man proposing new world old contacts with blacks as their own agent struck some deep nerve,as long as the supposed agents of contact were Vikings,St Brandon, Phoenicians,Libyans,Celts or any folks presumed as "White" it was a non issue,but let some Black come to the table espousing a slightly different take on those theories by inserting African and Black and all hell broke loose,he maybe wrong or will yet be proven right but in the days before dna this was what most people went by. Unless you actually read the man don't criticize the man.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
Preach!
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
And yes Lioness I know that Moor in some cases may mean bleak land scape in English,but how does that work when Noir, Negro,Nigri, Black man Black son,is also shown in concert with black men or women on the same crest. [/QB]
Show me any coat of arms, it doesn't matter if the figures on it are white or "Moors" - Show me any coat of arms in which a figure or heads on that coat of arms is intended to represent a specific member of that family, a person with a first and last name
.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
You've been shown these things repeatedly by me, Iron, and Anansi.
Are you normal?
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: You've been shown these things repeatedly by me, Iron, and Anansi.
Dr. Jose V. Pimienta-Bey Assistant Professor of General Studies and Director of African and African American Studies
Woods-Penn, Room 207 CPO 1903
Office Hours: By appointment Phone: 859-985-3455 Fax: 859-985-3913 E-Mail: jose_bey@berea.edu At Berea College since 2004 Degrees B.A., Gettysburg College, 1984 M.A., Shippensburg University, 1987 Ph.D., Temple University, 1995 So you know he is not some youtuber shouting off at the mouth..
You can FF to time 17 that's where he get into the families
Btw Marc is right you do have this information and I just gave it to you above again. make use of it.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
Brada wrote,
you [the feline] could do as Marc suggest If you want to find them in a more readable format, look them up yourself if it's that important to you.
I suppose you know what you can do with your direct order don't you?
Dr. Jose V. Pimienta-Bey Assistant Professor of General Studies and Director of African and African American Studies
Woods-Penn, Room 207 CPO 1903
Office Hours: By appointment Phone: 859-985-3455 Fax: 859-985-3913 E-Mail: jose_bey@berea.edu At Berea College since 2004 Degrees B.A., Gettysburg College, 1984 M.A., Shippensburg University, 1987 Ph.D., Temple University, 1995 So you know he is not some youtuber shouting off at the mouth..
You can FF to time 17 that's where he get into the families
Btw Marc is right you do have this information and I just gave it to you above again. make use of it.
None of the above information which you post over and over again show that any noble family in Great Britain, Ireland or Germany was founded by a black person or "Moor".
The Moors in the herladry are do not represent members of that family. That is ignorance of history, herladry and is wishful thinking. The idea that any European noble family that has a Moor in it's crest were Moors is ridiculous fanatsy That is not to say that Moorish culture did not influence Europe particulary Spain. It did and that is a separate point. The people of al-Andalus were widely varied ethnically
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Dr. Jose V. Pimienta-Bey Assistant Professor of General Studies and Director of African and African American Studies
Woods-Penn, Room 207 CPO 1903
Office Hours: By appointment Phone: 859-985-3455 Fax: 859-985-3913 E-Mail: jose_bey@berea.edu At Berea College since 2004 Degrees B.A., Gettysburg College, 1984 M.A., Shippensburg University, 1987 Ph.D., Temple University, 1995 So you know he is not some youtuber shouting off at the mouth..
You can FF to time 17 that's where he get into the families
Btw Marc is right you do have this information and I just gave it to you above again. make use of it.
None of the above information which you post over and over again show that any noble family in Great Britain, Ireland or Germany was founded by a black person or "Moor".
The Moors in the herladry are do not represent members of that family. That is ignorance of history, herladry and is wishful thinking. The idea that any European noble family that has a Moor in it's crest were Moors is ridiculous fanatsy That is not to say that Moorish culture did not influence Europe particulary Spain. It did and that is a separate point. The people of al-Andalus were widely varied ethnically
Duncey
You are wrong as usual. Here, I gonna help you again:
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on 24 November, 2011 10:48 AM:
Muur:
quote: “DOUGALL (Generally Mac-Dougall): Gael. dhu, black, and gall, a stranger – an expression used by the CELTIC INHABITANTS OF SCOTLAND to DENOTE A LOWLANDER, or ANY ONE NOT OF THEIR OWN RACE. It is still in use as a baptismal name” – Page 93 (“Dou- to Dow-”), “Patronymica Britannica: A Dictionary of the Family Names of the United Kingdom” by Mark Antony Lower, 1860 quote: “Duff, a surname adopted from the Celtic, in which? language the word means black. Sibbald, in his History of Fife, says, ” that as Niger and Rufus were names of families amongst the Romans, from the colour and complexion of men, so it seems Duff was, from the swarthy and black colour of those of the tribe,” or clan of Macduff.”
-The Scottish nation; or, The surnames, families, literature, honours, and biographical history of the people of Scotland (1877) by William Anderson
Posted by Nehesy (Member # 17252) on 24 November, 2011 01:26 PM:
David MacRitchie , « Ancient and Modern Britons » , 1884
1. Vol I, page 46 :
"Any latin dictionary, any old one at least, will tell you that maurus is a 'moor', a 'blackamoor' or a'tawny moor '. And Shakespeare uses the world 'moor' as a synonym for 'negro'(Merchant of Venice, act III, scene V)''..."At that last world bears nowadays a somewhat restricted meaning , it may be better to take the old fashioned « blackamoor »,as the nearest English rendering of maurus signifying thereby any black, or brown skinned man".
2. Vol II Page 87
"....One division of the posterity of this powerful black king, of the tenth century, became known to Gaelic-speaking people as MAGA DUBH ( Mc Duff) or "clan of the black ", see also Vol I page 161-162
3. Vol I, page 214 :
"And in the diction of the past, A black man was a moor...."
MacRitchie speaks of :
- Xantochroid : White,
- Melanchroid (Xantochroid , mixed with Austroloid i.e blacks)
- Austroloids
But Also :
- Blackamoors (Moors)
- Black People of scotland (Duine Dubh = Black Man in scottish gaelic ) : Vol I page 47
- Black people of Ireland (Duine Gorm = Black Man in Irish Gaelic) : Vol I page 47
- Moravia or river of the moors : Vol I p 49 ( one of the tribe was called Quadi and fought the romans)
- Black people of Wales (Bwabach, Coblynau, Adhach Dubh or Avagddu) : Vol I page 156
- Black Knight of Lancashire : Vol I page 158
- Black Scandinavians (Thorfinn and Thorhall) : Vol I page 117
- Black Scandinavians (DUBH-LOCHLINNEAICH ) and White scandinavians (FIONN-LOCHLINNEAICH ): Vol I page 117
Romans found black people in britain :
- Vol I P 45: Pliny described them as AETHIOPIUM
- Vol I P 46-47 : Claudian described them as blackamoor
Etc, etc and many more : Scotland, Spain, France, England, Ireland, Denmark etc
- Volume I : pages 21,121,131
- Volume II : pages 17,20,27,87,102,107,112,113,127,188-189,297,322,328-329,360,392
Etc, etc Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Iron this David MacRitchie stuff is hogwash
We are talking about human figures and heads in European heraldry.
Show me one case where a figure or head that appears in a coat of arms or crest is depicting a member of that family who has a first and last name. I doesn't eve have to be a "Moor". Just show us any
None of David MacRitchie's theories are going to do that for you because the idea that Europeans put actual family members into the coats of arms and crests is wrong.
Therefore if you see a Moors head in a European family crest it does not mean the family itself was black or founded by blacks. That is silliness just like if you see a "wildman" in a crest it does not mean the family was founded by "wildmen" -pure foolishness
.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Iron this David MacRitchie stuff is hogwash
We are talking about human figures and heads in European heraldry.
Show me one case where a figure or head that appears in a coat of arms or crest is depicting a member of that family who has a first and last name. I doesn't eve have to be a "Moor". Just show us any
None of David MacRitchie's theories are going to do that for you because the idea that Europeans put actual family members into the coats of arms and crests is wrong.
Therefore if you see a Moors head in a European family crest it does not mean the family itself was black or founded by blacks. That is silliness just like if you see a "wildman" in a crest it does not mean the family was founded by "wildmen" -pure foolishness
.
sttutgart
Why is MacRitichie hogwash? He is smarter than you! He was out in public.
He wrote a book. He told the truth.
You are annonymous. You are dumb like Duncey. You can barely read and write.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on 22 November, 2011 05:07 PM:
King Kenneth Dubh: 962 – 997 AD
Dub mac Maíl Coluim (Modern Gaelic: Dubh mac Mhaoil Chaluim) sometimes anglicised as Duff MacMalcolm Niger, “the Black” (died 967) was king of Alba.
He was son of Malcolm I (Máel Coluim mac Domnaill) and succeeded to the throne when Indulf (Ildulb mac Causantín) was killed in 962.
Niger Val Dubh lived and reigned over certain black divisions in Scotland. A clan of Scots known as ‘the sons of the blacks’ (MacDub or MacDuib, MacDuff) succeeded him in history. (JA Rogers, Sex and Race).
Dubh’s descendants, the clann Dubh, (clan MacDuff) became officials of the Scottish court and later Earls of Fife.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: [QB] Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on 22 November, 2011 05:07 PM:
You also provided no souce information about the head above Do proper research otherwise what you present is not credible. What is the date or the piece, where is it from, what museum, collection or book is it from. I already warned marc about trying to speak for Brada. Brada shouldn't have people helping him if he wants to get into the LTC it has to be legit
However we are talking here about coats of arms/family crests and if people in them correspond to actual people with first and last names
The above is neither.
Just let Brada handle it first. Be patient, I know you need the attention
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Egmond, the book is called a book of Seneca’s Tragedies.
It was made for the Pucci family of Florence, one of those Muurish people I speak about.
Muurish German Kings
Nuremberg Musuem:
.....
Cardinal Lorenzo Pucci by Parmigianino 1529-30,
The Pucci family great Muurish ancestor:
quote: The family surname derives from an ancestor named Jacopo, abbreviated to Jacopuccio, then to Puccio, who was considered wise and frequently called upon to settle disputes - there are records of two such interventions in 1264 and 1287.
Their former surname seems to have been Saracini, which explains the presence of a maure or moor's head on their crest and coat of arms.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: [QB] Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on 22 November, 2011 05:07 PM:
You also provided no souce information about the head above Do proper research otherwise what you present is not credible. What is the date or the piece, where is it from, what museum, collection or book is it from
However we are talking here about coats of arms/family crests and if people in them correspond to actual people with first and last names
....
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: The Negri family of France
Originally from Normandy France, noble and prominent family with land, manors and white slaves.
This family was well regarded in their local region of Calvados.
______________________________________^^^^ yes the resemblance is uncanny, I guess I was wrong
Denzel Pucci, founder of the Pucci family, Florence, taste for white meat
Did you ever notice how the early European kings all wore headbands and earrings?
also it's funny how Denzel Pucci couldn't get the other Pucci members to stick with Islam, I wonder why (not very Moorish of them)
See this is what happened. The Christisns and Muslims were killing each other during the Crusades. Then after it all died down the Christians said to the defeated Muslim invaders " let's let bygones be bygones, come up to Germany and start up some families we'll hook you up wih the nobility and get the Pope's blessing."
All was happy again
until Charles V endorsed Portugese slave trading in Africa
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings
Nuremberg Musuem:
Cardinal Lorenzo Pucci by Parmigianino 1529-30,
^^^^ IronLion has fvcked me again!!, I guess I was wrong
blah...blah...blah... [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: .....
Show me one case where a figure or head that appears in a coat of arms or crest is depicting a member of that family who has a first and last name. I doesn't eve have to be a "Moor". Just show us any
blah...blah..blah..
.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ yes, maybe someone can tell us which member of the Pucci family this was. what his name was ???
Just read back in the historical records, the Pucci patriarch who used to like to wear a headband and earrings, what was his name again?
.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
^^^ yes, maybe someone can tell us which member of the Pucci family this was. what his name was ???
Just read back in the historical records, the Pucci patriarch who used to like to wear a headband and earrings, what was his name again?
.
quote:Pucci Muurz ancestral founder: The family surname derives from an ancestor named Jacopo, abbreviated to Jacopuccio, then to Puccio, who was considered wise and frequently called upon to settle disputes - there are records of two such interventions in 1264 and 1287. Their former surname seems to have been Saracini, which explains the presence of a maure or moor's head on their crest and coat of arms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pucci_family
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: The Negri family of France
Originally from Normandy France, noble and prominent family with land, manors and white slaves.
This family was well regarded in their local region of Calvados.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness: [qb]
^^^ yes, maybe someone can tell us which member of the Pucci family this was. what his name was ???
Just read back in the historical records, the Pucci patriarch who used to like to wear a headband and earrings, what was his name again?
.
quote:Pucci Muurz ancestral founder: The family surname derives from an ancestor named Jacopo, abbreviated to Jacopuccio, then to Puccio, who was considered wise and frequently called upon to settle disputes - there are records of two such interventions in 1264 and 1287. Their former surname seems to have been Saracini, which explains the presence of a maure or moor's head on their crest and coat of arms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pucci_family
none of the above says that the Moor in the coat of arms is Jacopo, try again
You can't even find a white noble who is pictured on a coat of arms. The simple fact is that much as you would like it not to be true the Europeans did not put images of themselves or the "founder" of the family on their coats of arms.
The Muslim invaders came and started a family in Florence? stop it
Posted by HERU (Member # 6085) on :
Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
Posted by HERU (Member # 6085) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Seems pretty loose to use the word "fact."
What do we make of the so-called "Ivory Bangle Lady" of Britain and the soldiers and families of African origin identified in the service of the Romans? The Times noted on the story:
"She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children."
Or take Norway, for example. Geirmund Heljarskin (c. 9th century) is the first man of "distinction" mentioned in this study of the Saga Age literature:
"Settlers named in Landnamabok include many men of distinction: Geirmundr heljarskin, a warrior king (herkonungr) with a base in Rogaland (Sin, H86) ..." Old Icelandic Literature and Society, 2000, Edited by: Margaret Clunies Ross, University of Sydney, Cambridge University Press
On all accounts Geirmund and his twin brother were extremely dark-skinned. The appellation "heljarskin" means, literally, 'black as hell.' Their mother came from Denmark.
"This feeling, and the fact that there could be dark complexion in the best Scandinavian blood, are attested by the story of Geirmund Heljarskin's childhood (LanJndmaMt ii, 19; Sturlunga Sag" i, 1-2)" - Frederick Tupper, The Riddles of the Exeter Book, 1971
By no means is it scholarly to say blacks simply were "not allowed" to distinguish themselves and have families in medieval Europe. Its facile, contrarian, not scholarly.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
If Lioness can't accept McRitchie the claims that blacks were Europe's first royalty with the abundance of evidence presented, tough cookies.
Family crests are just one medium showing who was what. There are also the coins (not the fake/phony oil paints that some person who will remain unnamed always spams these threads with that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can paint:)
Black kings ruled throughout Europe as the above shows. . .
Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
Sorry Marc, White people hating, lying, history stealing, white people genocidist, Black racist, Black supremacist, none of those people on those coins look Black. I don't believe you or any of your White people hating, White people genocidist, lying, history stealing, Black racist Black supremacist pseudo-scholars.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by HERU:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Seems pretty loose to use the word "fact."
What do we make of the so-called "Ivory Bangle Lady" of Britain and the soldiers and families of African origin identified in the service of the Romans? The Times noted on the story:
"She added that inscriptions from that period showed that African people were most often members of the imperialist power’s army. But the latest research on a series of skeletons showed that African men had immigrated to Britain, invariably with the Roman Army, and had brought their wives and children."
Or take Norway, for example. Geirmund Heljarskin (c. 9th century) is the first man of "distinction" mentioned in this study of the Saga Age literature:
"Settlers named in Landnamabok include many men of distinction: Geirmundr heljarskin, a warrior king (herkonungr) with a base in Rogaland (Sin, H86) ..." Old Icelandic Literature and Society, 2000, Edited by: Margaret Clunies Ross, University of Sydney, Cambridge University Press
On all accounts Geirmund and his twin brother were extremely dark-skinned. The appellation "heljarskin" means, literally, 'black as hell.' Their mother came from Denmark.
"This feeling, and the fact that there could be dark complexion in the best Scandinavian blood, are attested by the story of Geirmund Heljarskin's childhood (LanJndmaMt ii, 19; Sturlunga Sag" i, 1-2)" - Frederick Tupper, The Riddles of the Exeter Book, 1971
By no means is it scholarly to say blacks simply were "not allowed" to distinguish themselves and have families in medieval Europe. Its facile, contrarian, not scholarly.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say blacks were not allowed to have families in medieval Europe or be soldiers for the white man. I said that blacks along with most white people (who were not of noble bloodline) were not part of noble or royal families in medieval Europe at any time in early Europe. The number of blacks in medieval Europe was under 1%.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness you are resistant to the idea that Blacks from south of the desert or of a certain phenotype of which you hardly approve can hold power or influence beyond the boarders of Africa and certainly not Europe,I am not gonna sit here and tell you that every single note worthy family in Europe was founded by blacks,but what does it mean to be a Noble in the first place in the first place
The nobility is a social class distinguished by high hereditary or honorary rank that possesses privileges, or eminence, and certain rights not granted to members of other classes in a society. The privileges of the nobility often comprise substantial real advantages, including rights of access, that vary from country to country and era to era. Traditional membership in the nobility is highly regulated by monarchist governments, which grant the ranks and titles to members of the elite. However, the noble class is not a closed order, and throughout history, membership has been perpetually renewed.
In other words persons who got in good with the King
Say like this guy posted here before and which I am sure you are a-where of, Johannes Morus ruler of Sicily and really?? you did not find Fairbirn's book of crest useful ah mean with all the descriptions of family names in the heraldry.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: . .
If Lioness can't accept McRitchie the claims that blacks were Europe's first royalty with the abundance of evidence presented, tough cookies.
Family crests are just one medium showing who was what. There are also the coins (not the fake/phony oil paints that some person who will remain unnamed always spams these threads with that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can paint:)
Black kings ruled throughout Europe as the above shows. . .
Marc the above are merely various pug nosed and Jay Leno chinned white people.
Listen carefully: David McRitchie theorized about prehistoric Britons being short people who lived underground. He never said any of these famous nobles that you are showing coins of, were black. He certainly never ever said the Hapsburgs were black that's ridiculous. Go to David McRitchie's books. Find us one Euroepan noble that we can see shown in a coin that McRitchie says was black. There aren't any so you can put the coins away
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Lioness you are resistant to the idea that Blacks from south of the desert or of a certain phenotype of which you hardly approve can hold power or influence beyond the boarders of Africa and certainly not Europe,I am not gonna sit here and tell you that every single note worthy family in Europe was founded by blacks,but what does it mean to be a Noble in the first place in the first place
The nobility is a social class distinguished by high hereditary or honorary rank that possesses privileges, or eminence, and certain rights not granted to members of other classes in a society. The privileges of the nobility often comprise substantial real advantages, including rights of access, that vary from country to country and era to era. Traditional membership in the nobility is highly regulated by monarchist governments, which grant the ranks and titles to members of the elite. However, the noble class is not a closed order, and throughout history, membership has been perpetually renewed.
In other words persons who got in good with the King
Say like this guy posted here before and which I am sure you are a-where of, Johannes Morus ruler of Sicily and really?? you did not find Fairbirn's book of crest useful ah mean with all the descriptions of family names in the heraldry.
Johannes Morus an obscure barely known figure in European history was not the ruler of Sicily, nor did he start a royal family or have an image of himself on a coat of arms. He was under Leo and was primarily a minister. He had probably started out as a slave and rose to an impressive positon under white authority. There is little known about him
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: blacks were Europe's first royalty with the abundance of evidence presented
Black kings ruled throughout Europe as the above shows. . . [/QB]
Brada you believe this?
I never said there were no blacks in Europe but we were not the first kings of Europe nor the founders of any royal/noble familes
Posted by HERU (Member # 6085) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say blacks were not allowed to have families in medieval Europe or be soldiers for the white man. I said that blacks along with most white people (who were not of noble bloodline) were not part of noble or royal families in medieval Europe at any time in early Europe. The number of blacks in medieval Europe was under 1%.
"the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it."
Yikes. I hardly had room to put words in your mouth.
There is ample evidence from medieval Spain, Portugal, the Old Norse world and elsewhere, you're mistaken.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness most of what passes for Kings or nobility in Europe are barely known figures,
A viceroy /ˈvaɪs.rɔɪ/ is a royal official who runs a country, colony, or city province (or state) in the name of and as representative of the monarch. The term derives from the Latin prefix vice-, meaning "in the place of" and the French word roi, meaning king.
In other words he was ruler of Sicily and no he did not start out as a slave, you see Lioness that's your problem anyone bearing that phenotype is auto automatically cast or recast as a Slave he couldn't be a Moor who switched sides but he had to have been a slave so as to diminish his position but even of he did started out as a slave there he is as ruler of Sicily the most likely inspiration of the Shakespearean play Othello a noble man.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
Somebody in this thread who will remain unnamed does not read. I will only say (and the guilty party will know what to look for) read from the 3rd paragraph to the end.
It contains the quote:
"McRitchie (and we are not talking about little green goblins living underground) gives the names of these families (Moorish) whose names are quite celebrated in English history. One of these is the aristocratic Douglas family, said to be one of the ancestors of the present royal family of Britain."
You keep asking for the same information and when someone supplies it, you ask for something different playing a game of musical chairs.
Interesting. You are pretending, like an ostrich with its head in the ground, that the following never existed: an exalted black nobility of Europe that has not been surpassed:
You seem to be a pretty desperate gal. And God knows why you hang around this site devoting your life to trying to prove to some black guys that fake white history is true.
Chill out.
. .
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
And don't forget big-nosed, big-lipped Rudolf II (and please don't give us your fake white oil paintings as some phony dubious proof to the otherwise):
Your people are such liars and deceivers. You as well. And you don't seem to have remorse. That is the scary thing. You guys lie and deceive with sick passion.
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Marc it's ridiculous to show this decorative item which cannot be older than 19th century and saying it's from the 10th century. Stop the deception Again, a generic Moor rather than labeled a real person with a first and last name, certianly not a Croation king (lol)
-just keep hiding the source of that item. It will be our little secret.
Also Scobie is interpreting what thes British authors said. Go to the original sources. There were Moorish noble families established in Britain and Germany?? You would need to rewrite the whole history of the Crusades and the Moorish empire to accomodate this silliness
At least Scobie does some quoting of sources. But what you do is a lot worse. You go into European history and at random say famous European Kings Queens and princes who MacRitchie or any other British author never said were black simply because you look at them and notice some of these white people had a slightly more bulbous nose, their jaw looks like Jay Leno, or the coin is a bit worn, blunting down the nose. It's childish
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
The Coat of Arms of a family who is well known whose head started out as a royal captive ended up in Russia became ennobled his descendants married into the royal houses of Europe, however he elected not have an image of himself on his arm nor even the name Moor although he was called the Moor of Peter the great.
Pushkin’s Third Generation (Abraham’s Sixth Generation)
A. Countess Sofia Von Merenberg (pictured on the left) married H.I.H Mikhael Mihailovich Romanov in 1891. (Note: Grand Duke Mikhael Mihailovich was the grandson of Czar Nicholas I and the brother of the last Czar of Russia, Czar Nicholas II. If you recall, it was Czar Nicholas I who informed Pushkin that he (the Czar) would be his censor. It is ironic that the descendants of Czar Nicholas I and Pushkin would marry each other. In other words, Czar Nicholas I and Pushkin after their death had become grand parent -in-laws.) Because of the morgantic nature of this union, a new title was created for Countess Sofia Von Merenberg and her children. The created title was Countess De Torby. And the title was created by H.R.H. Grand Duke Adolphe I of Luxembourg (Genealogy of the Imperial Family of Russia). The children were :
That's how it works sometimes Lioness
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
, ,
There you go again. Avoiding the fact that your question was answered and showing your deceitful nature once again so typical of whites.
You'd inquired about black names on family crests. Brada showed you a bunch and you said you couldn't read it. And you (again) wanted just one (and he gave you a dozen that were legible)
You claim no blacks were among nobility and are shown images of a page of monarchs who are as black as you get. Are shown Rudolf, as black as you can get. And your only comment is that the decorative item can't be older than the 19th centuury.
On what evidence, pray tell, do you base your speculation on?
Main point, you lost the argument long, long ago and are, as I said earlier, hoping from one point to the next in your sneaky, insincere, deceitful characteristic way.
You are a lost cause.
. .
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington:
,
There you go again. Avoiding the fact that your question was answered and showing your deceitful nature once again so typical of whites.
You'd inquired about black names on family crests. Brada showed you a bunch and you said you couldn't read it. And you (again) wanted just one (and he gave you a dozen that were legible)
You claim no blacks were among nobility and are shown images of a page of monarchs who are as black as you get.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Moor,Moureau,Mourana,Mouryan,Morel
Marc, the name "Moor" or derivatives of it does not mean the person that has that name was black or have black ancestry anymore than Thomas Moore was black or random white person with the last name "Black" was black. Does a person named John Green descend from green people? What about Mr. Brown? Was he named after cocoa? My challenge was not met, there is no example of a person of a noble family pictured on their own coat of arms. Wildmen and Moors for instance appear on these crests but they do not represent the appearance of the family members they are symbolic and mascot-like, cute. Do you really think a European noble is going to be wearing a rag headband and large earrings? Further, non-noble mixing in royal bloodlines happens but it's pretty rare. Even with crowns, the same deal-these Moor symbols are not actual people with names- do you evr see a name of a specific person under these heads? Even Egmond knows that. I'll sic him on you. Look at the pope benedict coat of arms. You think he loves black people? No he thinks that looks cute with the blood splatter coming off the neck
20 years form now Marc's kids will be claiming Pope Benedict was black based off this.
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
William of Orange was a swarthy* Germanic born in the castle of Dillenburg, now Nassau, Germany In 1573, William joined the Calvinist Church *Muur
..The Albino Germanic tribes: Goths, Vandals, Avars, Bulgars. Alans, Suebi, Frisians amoung other Germanic and Slavic tribes
.
A fake, idealised portrait of the founder of the Dutch dynasty by The Key.
What is your source which says he was swarthy. I wouild like to add this to my source which says More brown then white (in french) and brown of complexion and the beard (in dutch) (Jonkheer Beresteyn 1933)
The books by Van Beresteyn are at the base of my research, as he offers methodology, but he does not follow through in identifying his ancestors as black of skin. He leads us to the door, but we have to open it. Remarkable.
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
White shoe leather trash wants to sound learned and claims portraits are realistic and that the sitter actually posed for the painter. How the hell do you know. You cannot look at a portrait and decide that the person posed. This we can only know if their are letters, bills and text which say so. But even if they did; its no guarantee the portrait shows their true look.
My next publication is also cencerned with the recent Van Mierevelt exhibition in Delft, I was fortunate to speak with the curator, and from the book I have learned that the painter draws a sketch from live, but adapts the true face to idealised proportions, and adds a few personal touches. The elite wanted a standard look to represent their status, not art. Or this is art, to make somebody soso look imposing.
The body shape and the dress came standard with the painting, to establish the person as a member of a certain powerful group, wearing the required garb of that group. The jewellery was added by the painter. For extra pay they might add a personal item as special gloves, a prayerbook, or indeed some jewelery.
Regarding Van Mierevelt, I maintain we are looking at overpaints or whitened copies as he was apt to paint the true brown and black complexions of his clients. He was famous for that.
The Book
Boy, did I scrutinize Lady Carlton by Van Mierevelt. An obvious overpaint, but it also looks like she herself was painted white when she posed. The white skin on her bosom is clearly painted around her intricate collier, you see the paint strokes, and the wood is showing underneath her hairline.
I have decided that the face painting and face bleaching of the brown and black, Black identified European elite (1100-1848) was an African tradition, evoking the ancestors, and has precious little to do with white people.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness
quote:Marc, the name "Moor" or derivatives of it does not mean the person that has that name was black or have black ancestry anymore than Thomas Moore was black or random white person with the last name "Black" was black. Does a person named John Green descend from green people? What about Mr. Brown? Was he named after cocoa
Lioness why are you playing dumb you know very well how Sir names are formed at least in Medieval Europe, they are usually formed after a person's location,such as a city,village,hamlet, sometimes even a nation or tribe, example if one was called John Scotsman,bet your bottom dollar that he had an ancestor from Scotland. Other times it could be his ancestor's occupation example John Baker would likely have an ancestor as a Baker,John Bowman has ancestor whose occupation was a Bowman ditto for John Archer,John Smith or Smythe off-course would be a Smith a person who worked in an Iron foundry,John Goldman ,Silverman,etc
Yet Others are based on physical characteristic,the most notable would of a complexion so yes a John Brownman or Blackman or Blackmoor ancestor could have extraordinary brown skin,John Redbeard well John with the red beard,but this was even more telling when you have Black,Blackman,Blackson,Moor,Moorison,Murrymen, in on a coat of Arms along with an inserted Moor on it.
I know for sure you did not bother viewing the links of the lecture or Fairbirn's book of heraldry
Thomas Moore may not have been black but he may have had an ancestor who was, who may not have bothered putting an effigy on the coat of arms just like a well known Moor name Abraham Hannibal.
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
You have no right to speak to a brother like that. You should use respectful terms when addressing brothers.
. .
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
You think you are an authority, but you are not, and you know that. So shut the fvck up!
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: . .
You have no right to speak to a brother like that. You should use respectful terms when addressing brothers.
. .
I will shout thief if a see a Black man robbing some poor folks. Respect needs to be earned, and you yourself are becoming more of a vexing eyesore with your unfounded claims, but I do practice restraint. It has been the Black who sold Blacks and now are holding back Black progress on this forum, as well. Do not you people learn?
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
You think you are an authority, but you are not, and you know that. So shut the fvck up!
I speak about things I know, I can proof or argue based on facts. You need to proof a single source to underscore you stupid claims. Sureley a king's name would be documented somewhere? We know that Elizabeth I had lovers, we know their name and their looks. This we know by reading, not by talking out of our ass.
quote: 1. Was Jane Austen black? Codfried, Egmond / 1st ed / Codfried / 2011
2. Will there be another Holocaust? = Komt er weer een Holocaust? Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2010
3. Blue blood is black blood : the iconographical proof of a dominating black and colored European race who were a noble and royal elite (1500-1789) = Blauw bloed is zwart bloed : het iconografisch bewijs van een dominerende zwarte en gekleurde Europese natie die een adellijke en koninklijke elite was (1500-1789) Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / [2009]
4. De vijand van de Neeger Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2006-...
5. De vijand van de Neeger ; Dl. 1: Ongeediteerde correspondentie en columns 2004-2006 Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
6. Carmelita, Carmen! Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
7. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 8e bew. dr / Codfried / 2005
8. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / 1e verb. dr / Codfried / 2005
9. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2004
10. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 4e bew. dr / Egmond Codfried / cop. 2003
Some of my humble titles. I know not everything, so i keep shut about things I know nothing about.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
You think you are an authority, but you are not, and you know that. So shut the fvck up!
I speak about things I know, I can proof or argue based on facts. You need to proof a single source to underscore you stupid claims. Sureley a king's name would be documented somewhere? We know that Elizabeth I had lovers, we know their name and their looks. This we know by reading, not by talking out of our ass.
quote: 1. Was Jane Austen black? Codfried, Egmond / 1st ed / Codfried / 2011
2. Will there be another Holocaust? = Komt er weer een Holocaust? Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2010
3. Blue blood is black blood : the iconographical proof of a dominating black and colored European race who were a noble and royal elite (1500-1789) = Blauw bloed is zwart bloed : het iconografisch bewijs van een dominerende zwarte en gekleurde Europese natie die een adellijke en koninklijke elite was (1500-1789) Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / [2009]
4. De vijand van de Neeger Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2006-...
5. De vijand van de Neeger ; Dl. 1: Ongeediteerde correspondentie en columns 2004-2006 Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
6. Carmelita, Carmen! Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
7. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 8e bew. dr / Codfried / 2005
8. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / 1e verb. dr / Codfried / 2005
9. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2004
10. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 4e bew. dr / Egmond Codfried / cop. 2003
Some of my humble titles. I know not everything, so i keep shut about things I know nothing about.
You love ass talk, but I dont. I am Rastafari, holy man.
Can you tell me who that black man was? Provide your explanation or your theory.
Thanks.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
You think you are an authority, but you are not, and you know that. So shut the fvck up!
I speak about things I know, I can proof or argue based on facts. You need to proof a single source to underscore you stupid claims. Sureley a king's name would be documented somewhere? We know that Elizabeth I had lovers, we know their name and their looks. This we know by reading, not by talking out of our ass.
quote: 1. Was Jane Austen black? Codfried, Egmond / 1st ed / Codfried / 2011
2. Will there be another Holocaust? = Komt er weer een Holocaust? Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2010
3. Blue blood is black blood : the iconographical proof of a dominating black and colored European race who were a noble and royal elite (1500-1789) = Blauw bloed is zwart bloed : het iconografisch bewijs van een dominerende zwarte en gekleurde Europese natie die een adellijke en koninklijke elite was (1500-1789) Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / [2009]
4. De vijand van de Neeger Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2006-...
5. De vijand van de Neeger ; Dl. 1: Ongeediteerde correspondentie en columns 2004-2006 Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
6. Carmelita, Carmen! Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
7. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 8e bew. dr / Codfried / 2005
8. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / 1e verb. dr / Codfried / 2005
9. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2004
10. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 4e bew. dr / Egmond Codfried / cop. 2003
Some of my humble titles. I know not everything, so i keep shut about things I know nothing about.
LOL! You wrote 10 essays.... so you are an expert, Lol! Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by HERU: Lioness? Why so resistant to the idea of black progenitors in medieval Europe? There were very prominent Moorish families in Britain, Norway and Denmark, even Germany, in these times.
I'm resistant to false history to make people feel good, the fact is that there were zero black noble families in Britain, Norway, Denmark or Germany. They didn't allow it
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
You think you are an authority, but you are not, and you know that. So shut the fvck up!
I speak about things I know, I can proof or argue based on facts. You need to proof a single source to underscore you stupid claims. Sureley a king's name would be documented somewhere? We know that Elizabeth I had lovers, we know their name and their looks. This we know by reading, not by talking out of our ass.
quote: 1. Was Jane Austen black? Codfried, Egmond / 1st ed / Codfried / 2011
2. Will there be another Holocaust? = Komt er weer een Holocaust? Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2010
3. Blue blood is black blood : the iconographical proof of a dominating black and colored European race who were a noble and royal elite (1500-1789) = Blauw bloed is zwart bloed : het iconografisch bewijs van een dominerende zwarte en gekleurde Europese natie die een adellijke en koninklijke elite was (1500-1789) Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / [2009]
4. De vijand van de Neeger Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2006-...
5. De vijand van de Neeger ; Dl. 1: Ongeediteerde correspondentie en columns 2004-2006 Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
6. Carmelita, Carmen! Codfried, Egmond / 1e dr / Codfried / 2006
7. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 8e bew. dr / Codfried / 2005
8. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / 1e verb. dr / Codfried / 2005
9. Belle van Zuylen's vergeten oma: Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737) : een beknopte studie over zwarten en kleurlingen in Europa en Nederland door de eeuwen heen Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / 2004
10. Maria Susanna Du Plessis (1739-1795) : dader of slachtoffer? Codfried, Egmond / 4e bew. dr / Egmond Codfried / cop. 2003
Some of my humble titles. I know not everything, so i keep shut about things I know nothing about.
LOL! You wrote 10 essays.... so you are an expert, Lol!
Queen Elizabeth I provided her buddy, sir Drake with a miniatuur portrait of herself, and he made a jewel casing around it. This was adorned with a classical cameo of a Black king ecclipsing a white woman. The white women is white Europe, and the image symbolises Black Superiority. The same symbol is seen on a Medici candelabra in the Louvre Museum, which was a wedding gift to Maria de Medici when she married that French King. It does not show alessandro's mother or some other nonsense.
I think taking drugs is unhealthy and many Surinam Rasta's end up crazy, homeless freaks.
I was forunate enough to have seen both pieces in real.
A portrait of Joachim Murat on a white horse is the same thing.
The Black prince sitting on a white, blond maned horse, symbolising the rule of Blacks over their white serfs.
Y'all should be wearing white shoes, and free yourself.
Not the mother of Alessandro medici, but a Black superiority symbol, Medici Candelabra, Louvre.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried: ..... This was adorned with a classical cameo of a Black king ecclipsing a white woman. The white women is white Europe, and the image symbolises Black Superiority.........
Citations??? Sources???
Or is this all coming from your imaginations? Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit. [/QUOTE]
Cameos of queens are official and historical records. It takes a lifetime of training in art, scupture, symbolism, heraldry, before one is qualified to work on making royal cameos.
Cameos are expensive to make. Serious works of art and historical records, they were could be used as seals, as medals, or as models that are used to make currency coins.
The standard I have observed is that no cameo head is a fantasy. They always represent living monarchs. Check out the an image printed off the cameo of Elizabeth II on the back of English coins and on their pound notes.
Every hair in a cameo means something. Nothing is placed there by accident or by chance.
All royalties appearing therein were living when it was made. It is a symbol, a seal, and a medal of the living monarch.
When a queen appears accompanied by a man in a cameo, it is either her consort, her Father or her King. This is the general rule. That is the underlying assumption underpinning my interpretation of the drake jewels.
It is simple for those who have eyes.
Below, you can see samples of cameo.
Cameos of Queens and consorts:
Double cameo portrait of Queen Victoria and the Prince Consort engraved in onyx.
Elizabeth II and Philip
Victoria and George
Ptolemy and Arsenio
Gonzaga cameo Ptolemy and Arsenio
The cameo below belong to Elizabeth the first. It got into the possession of the Drake family reputedly as a gift from Elizabeth.
In the picture below, we see the image of a white queen dominated by the image of a Moorish King.
Cameos are not made for fun, or by accident or mistake. They represent serious endeavour of history and state record.
Who is this on the cameo, with the queen, presumably Queen Elizabeth the first. We know she never married and had many lovers.
Which one is this?
Who is this forgotten Princely Muurish lover of Elizabeth I:
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings
Nuremberg Musuem:
Cardinal Lorenzo Pucci by Parmigianino 1529-30,
^^^^ IronLion has fvcked me again!!, I guess I was wrong
blah...blah...blah...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: .....
Show me one case where a figure or head that appears in a coat of arms or crest is depicting a member of that family who has a first and last name. I doesn't eve have to be a "Moor". Just show us any
blah...blah..blah..
.
[/QB]
Muir Clan Scotland
Muurish Badge of Scotland
Muir was a name by which the people of Strathclyde-Briton of the English/Scotland borderland were initally known.
Did not allow what? And who was this Princely Muurish lover of Queen Elizabeth I?
There is no damn proof in what you are saying about this Drake Jewel, you are worst then this white shoe leather trash. You seem to be hell bent in keeping back Blacks with your mysterious undocumented bull s hit.
Cameos of queens are official and historical records. It takes a lifetime of training in art, scupture, symbolism, heraldry, before one is qualified to work on making royal cameos.
Cameos are expensive to make. Serious works of art and historical records, they were could be used as seals, as medals, or as models that are used to make currency coins.
The standard I have observed is that no cameo head is a fantasy. They always represent living monarchs. Check out the an image printed off the cameo of Elizabeth II on the back of English coins and on their pound notes.
Every hair in a cameo means something. Nothing is placed there by accident or by chance.
All royalties appearing therein were living when it was made. It is a symbol, a seal, and a medal of the living monarch.
When a queen appears accompanied by a man in a cameo, it is either her consort, her Father or her King. This is the general rule. That is the underlying assumption underpinning my interpretation of the drake jewels.
It is simple for those who have eyes.
Below, you can see samples of cameo.
Cameos of Queens and consorts:
Double cameo portrait of Queen Victoria and the Prince Consort engraved in onyx.
Elizabeth II and Philip
Victoria and George
Ptolemy and Arsenio
The cameo below belong to Elizabeth the first. It got into the possession of the Drake family reputedly as a gift from Elizabeth.
In the picture below, we see the image of a white queen dominated by the image of a Moorish King.
Cameos are not made for fun, or by accident or mistake. They represent serious endeavour of history and state record.
Who is this on the cameo, with the queen, presumably Queen Elizabeth the first. We know she never married and had many lovers.
Which one is this?
Who is this forgotten Princely Muurish lover of Elizabeth I:
[/QUOTE]
Made in Italy, 16th century AD...
Anyone here knows him? Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings
Nuremberg Musuem:
Cardinal Lorenzo Pucci by Parmigianino 1529-30,
^^^^ IronLion has fvcked me again!!, I guess I was wrong
blah...blah...blah...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: .....
Show me one case where a figure or head that appears in a coat of arms or crest is depicting a member of that family who has a first and last name. I doesn't eve have to be a "Moor". Just show us any
blah...blah..blah..
.
Muir Clan Scotland
Muurish Badge of Scotland
Muir was a name by which the people of Strathclyde-Briton of the English/Scotland borderland were initally known.
The cameo below belong to Elizabeth the first. It got into the possession of the Drake family reputedly as a gift from Elizabeth.
In the picture below, we see the image of a white queen dominated by the image of a Moorish King.
Cameos are not made for fun, or by accident or mistake. They represent serious endeavour of history and state record.
Who is this on the cameo, with the queen, presumably Queen Elizabeth the first. We know she never married and had many lovers.
Which one is this?
Who is this forgotten Princely Muurish lover of Elizabeth I:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
The Drake Jewel
One of the rites of the Elizabethan court was the giving of jewels to the Queen, usually to mark the New Year, and the occasional gift by the Queen of jewels and portrait miniatures to favored servants and defenders of the realm. After Drake circumnavigated the globe, he gave Queen Elizabeth a composite jewel token made with rare materials gathered from around the globe: a ship with an ebony hull, enameled gold taken from a prize off the Pacific coast of Mexico, a diamond from Africa. The ship was the instrument that extended the Queen’s potency around the world, so an apposite image for a gift meant to celebrate her.
More fascinating to present admirers of the Drake Jewel is the other side with the intaglio cut cameo of sardonyx featuring an African male bust in profile superimposed over the profile of a European. There is some debate whether the European is a regal woman or a Roman Briton of the sort William Camden was idealizing in his Britannia.
On one side is a state portrait of Elizabeth by the miniaturist Nicholas Hilliard, on the other a sardonyx cameo of double portrait busts, a regal woman and an African male.
________________________________________
There is no credible source that the person on the side with the African is Queen Elizabeth.
But to make you happy let's say that it is Queen Elizabeth.
So, Iron this Drake jewel is proof. You found it ,the smoking gun. The Europeans changed and doctored everything but they forgot that Drake jewel for some reason. They forgot to smash it and make an all white repelacement for it. It was an oversight.Shyt happens
So now let's look to it's relevance Here's the story: In the late 1500s Sir Francis Drake (a white man) gave Queen Elizabeth (a white broad) a cameo commemorating the fact that she commited adultry with an African dude.
(Solid proof the first European royalty were Blacks)
***also Iron, note Egmond's teachings: European paintings which show people who actually look African are not real people. They put those in there to clue us in that a couple white queens who have some ambigous black tendancies (frizzy hair, Jolie lips) are actulally full on collard green eating black folk. They put the black servants on the side to remind us of that. It's like an arrow pointing at the queen saying > this one here was actually a sista
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
In other words he (Johannes Morus) was ruler of Sicily and no he did not start out as a slave
prove it with sources
Brada people make threads saying that the royal families of Europe were founded by black people and the evidence are pictures of generic Moor's heads in some coats of Arms. You support these threads not questioning the premise and adding to them.
I believe that the number of Black people during any period with written history in North West Europe was very few , under 1%, and that they were not indigenous and almost all were brought in as slaves. A very tiny few of these few people became freed men and rose to non-noble military, court attendants, or governmental positions .
Do you believe this or do you believe all the history books were wrong and the royal families of Europe were founded by indigenous black people of Europe ?
.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [QUOTE]...
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
.... ________________________________________
There is no credible source that the person on the side with the African is Queen Elizabeth.
But to make you happy let's say that it is Queen Elizabeth.
blah..blah..blah..
Here's the story: In the late 1500s Sir Francis Drake (a white man) gave Queen Elizabeth (a white broad) a cameo commemorating the fact that she commited adultry with an African dude.
(Solid proof the first European royalty were Blacks)
OK.....
...
The man is not an African. He was a Muurish king of one of the European principalities like Il Moro, and Johannes Morus, and Maurice of Saxony, and Fergus Mohr first King of Caledonia, King Dubh Niger, one of the earlier Kings of Scotland.
That is clear enough as he is dressed in contemporary costume of that period, and his manner and bearing evocates the dignitary of the Muurish lords of Europe, the real whites.. The realism of the image is more convincing than many works of art of the same period. It was done with an intention of capturing and preserving the most minute details of the King's profile.
Regard!
Look him over and weep!
A picture is worth a thousand words... Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
In other words he (Johannes Morus) was ruler of Sicily and no he did not start out as a slave
prove it with sources
Brada people make threads saying that the royal families of Europe were founded by black people and the evidence are pictures of generic Moor's heads in some coats of Arms. You support these threads not questioning the premise and adding to them.
I believe that the number of Black people during any period with written history in North West Europe was very few , under 1%, and that they were not indigenous and almost all were brought in as slaves. A very tiny few of these few people became freed men and rose to non-noble military, court attendants, or governmental positions .
Do you believe this or do you believe all the history books were wrong and the royal families of Europe were founded by indigenous black people of Europe ?
.
Yawn! Here we go again we with these right-wing nuts;
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Muurish German Kings
Nuremberg Musuem:
Cardinal Lorenzo Pucci by Parmigianino 1529-30,
^^^^ IronLion has fvcked me again!!, I guess I was wrong
blah...blah...blah...
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: .....
Show me one case where a figure or head that appears in a coat of arms or crest is depicting a member of that family who has a first and last name. I doesn't eve have to be a "Moor". Just show us any
blah...blah..blah..
.
Muir Clan Scotland
Muurish Badge of Scotland
Muir was a name by which the people of Strathclyde-Briton of the English/Scotland borderland were initally known.
Iron you haven't been able to attribute a first an last name to any of the Moor images above. The failure continues.
You ask:
"Who is this forgotten Princely Muurish lover of Elizabeth I"
That's right you can't even name him:
And was Europe founded in the 16th century ?
Marijuana is a gateway drug
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Iron you haven't been able to attribute a first an last name to any of the Moor images above. The failure continues.
You ask:
"Who is this forgotten Princely Muurish lover of Elizabeth I"
That's right you can't even name him:
And was Europe founded in the 16th century ?
Marijuana is a gateway drug
The Muirs, the Moores, the Douglases, the D'Medicis, the Jacopuccis, the Negris, the Saracenis. All Muurs!
We are un-digging the history buried by your people. The names twisted, the stories hidden. Your tribes are shameless and degenerate when it comes to lying.
The rest of your rants are unintelligible as usual. Are you high on methampethamine? Or coke, you do coke? Cagots love cocaine. When you are on substance I know cause you rambling... Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
No IronLiar you White people hating Black racists are trying to steal Whites history, heritage, homeland & identities, the same as you try to steal the histories, heritages, homelands & identities of every other race.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: No IronLiar you White people hating Black racists are trying to steal Whites history, heritage, homeland & identities, the same as you try to steal the histories, heritages, homelands & identities of every other race.
Naughty gyal, naughty gyal...
I thought you was a Scottish Muur?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness
quote:prove it with sources Brada people make threads saying that the royal families of Europe were founded by black people and the evidence are pictures of generic Moor's heads in some coats of Arms. You support these threads not questioning the premise and adding to them. I believe that the number of Black people during any period with written history in North West Europe was very few , under 1%, and that they were not indigenous and almost all were brought in as slaves. A very tiny few of these few people became freed men and rose to non-noble military, court attendants, or governmental positions .
Lioness to counter laziness and amnesia among you and others I'll let you look up Richard B Kaplan as a source hint Hohenstaufen dynasty arright??
O Btw you probably don't have to go very far just check out some of the relatively recent thread in which YOU WERE PART OF THE CONVERSATION!! Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: No IronLiar you White people hating Black racists are trying to steal Whites history, heritage, homeland & identities, the same as you try to steal the histories, heritages, homelands & identities of every other race.
Naughty gyal, naughty gyal...
I thought you was a Scottish Muur?
Yes IronLiar my paternal Grandfather was in fact from Scotland & yes my surname is in fact Moore, but I most definitely am not Black. We've been through all that before LOL.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Very often slaves take the name of their masters. Maybe that's how her family became Moore's.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
L: A very tiny few of these few people became freed men and rose to non-noble military, court attendants, or governmental positions.
M: Began as slaves? With Mary of Burgundy, 1447, began as the Habsburgs.
Willful blindness, selective memory, and amnesia indeed. Whites started trickling into Europe mostly with the Germanic migrations starting in the 5th century gaining greater mass over the centuries.
The path that lead to Caesar began with white migrations beginning near 800 BC leading to the first presence of whites on the continent:
A morally treacherous woman who plays musical chairs with her questioning: raising a question, it's answered she fields another question (one she probably has asked a dozen times before - and had answered).
I don't know who the bigger fool is. She or we who respond to her thereby giving her credibility.
And please stop with your painted spams of blacks portrayed as white by your lying predecessors. You are all the same. You walk in their shadows.
. .
Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
Mikey boy White people hating, Black racist, no as far as I know none of my ancestors were slaves. How do we know you didn't invade & enslave us and change all those portraits to Black to cover up our history & we discovered what you had done & changed them back LOL ROTFLMBO.
Marc, you are the liar. Trying to claim that Whites in Europe were Black. All you White people hating, White genocidist, Black racist, Black supremacists are the same, wanting to steal what isn't yours. Trying to deny other races of their history, their heritage, their identities, their homelands. You, Mikey boy, Eghead, IronLiar, Liar Winters, & ilk particularly love doing that to Whites because you want to demean & degrade Whites, you want to deny us of anything, to make us feel that we have nothing to be proud of as a people.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Brada so far on Johanness Morus you have a caption to a picture. Where's a history book that discusses this man? Surely Golden Age of the Moor is not the only book on your shelf. The phrasing is also dubious "Vizer of Sicily" . Vizer is a word associated with Muslim Countries not Italian cities.
And there are no Coats of Arms or family Crests for Johannes Morus os the challenge to find a coat of arms with a member of the family on it with a first and last name has not been met. But didn't the nobles always put a picture of their founding patriarch on the family Coats of Arms? No they did not. They used varous heraldic symbols such as lions, wildmen and "moors"
And look at all the stuff about Libyans on the opposite page !!
Brada, go again to your bible, The Golden Age of the Moor and see if you can find a page saying the royal familes of Europe were founded by black people and that civilization in Western Europe was started by indigneous black people. That is a joke and afrocentrics don't support that, presence yes but not indigenous black Euroepans having started European civilization, no that's ridiculous. Guess what? The Moors didn't even invade Iberia until the 8th century. So what the hell happened? Were the Crusaders black too ? Afrocentric means centered in Africa not Europe !! Where will the madness end? I have already stated that Moors in the heraldry are not proof of this theory. It would have to be supported by written documentation. Where is the early writing of Europe in the first centuries after Christ talking about all the black people everywhere ??
Oh the white racists burned that stuff or are keeping it hidden in the basement of museums.
But they forgot to change the Coat of Arms ????
What kind of conspiracy is that ? That doesn't make sense. It's rantings of mad men, otherwise known as the LTC.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mikey boy White people hating, Black racist, no as far as I know none of my ancestors were slaves. How do we know you didn't invade & enslave us and change all those portraits to Black to cover up our history & we discovered what you had done & changed them back LOL ROTFLMBO.
Marc, you are the liar. Trying to claim that Whites in Europe were Black. All you White people hating, White genocidist, Black racist, Black supremacists are the same, wanting to steal what isn't yours. Trying to deny other races of their history, their heritage, their identities, their homelands. You, Mikey boy, Eghead, IronLiar, Liar Winters, & ilk particularly love doing that to Whites because you want to demean & degrade Whites, you want to deny us of anything, to make us feel that we have nothing to be proud of as a people.
Don't take it serious... you are being trolled.
Marc, Egmond et al are trolls who have been banned on hundreds of forums. No one takes their claims serious. They only post for a reaction.
See this post:
quote:I thought i would google search egmond's name since his posts are so trollish.
Turns out he has been banned on over 30 forums and is known as the ''dutch mega-troll''.
Among forums he has been banned from (direct links):
as someone posted from a forum egmond was banned at above -
''so i googled your name and you've been a very busy man and you've managed to get banned at every forum you posted at. you're gonna run out of forums soon''
--- Egmond probably isn't even black.
He's just posting his insane claims across the net (e.g that queen elizabeth or jane austen was black) for a reaction. He's a troll.
Egmond has been banned from every single forum except this forum. Why won't egypt search just get rid of him?
It'c clear he's a fake, has been banned on over 30 sites and just posts to get a reaction.
Egmond is known as the ''dutch mega troll'' over the net, and has had most forums block his ISP. He has been banned on over 30 forums for trolling (just the ones that appear on a google search) but probably hundred more. I'm sure Marc is exactly the same.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness I said Look up Richard B Kaplan I posted it before on another thread in which you took a prominent part of the conversation.
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
AP writes: Marc, Egmond et al are trolls who have been banned on hundreds of forums.
M: There you go with your damn lies again. Name me one single forum I have been banned from.
You are the prime example of a pathological liar who comes from a tradition of pathological liars.
How is one expected to look at a person who uses lies as freely as someone riding a bicycle.
It shows the quality of your character.
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Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ Egmond has been banned on over 30 forums, and has had his ISP blocked. See links on other page.
In regards to your account(s):
quote:Name me one single forum I have been banned from
You go by the name paulmarcw.
While Egmond was perm banned at Historum.com for trolling, you have been banned from most sections on the forum for your trollish threads.
On the 14th November 2011 you write:
quote:Odd that in the 21st century in an era of free speech I am to my knowledge the only member of historum banned from all subjects but those in the speculative section.
lol. You are the *only* one banned from all subjects because you a troll.
For those interested, you can find Marcs absolutely retarded threads here:
I mean WTF... look at these threads they range from claiming ''blacks formerly had straight hair in Europe'' to threads about black habsburgs.
hahah.
I always knew Marc you had a deep insecurity and self-hatred about your Negroid nappy hair...
your thread is called:
''Kings of England and when Africans had long hair''
lmao.
More fantasy and self-hatred projection.
As i've been saying on this forum for years - EVERY single black person envies whites since we have long flowing hair. You are fixated with us and our hair out of extreme envy, and you despise your little afros. its really lame.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness
quote:Brada so far on Johanness Morus you have a caption to a picture. Where's a history book that discusses this man? Surely Golden Age of the Moor is not the only book on your shelf. The phrasing is also dubious "Vizer of Sicily" . Vizer is a word associated with Muslim Countries not Italian cities
Yeah I know just like Admiral,Algebra, Asparagus, Sheriff, Alcohol,Albatross,algorithm,alkali,caliber, camphor,candy,carat enough to fill a volume naaw none of those words would by used in a Medieval Sicilian city dominated by Muslims and control by Africans of a darker hue in particular...Kaplan Son!! Kaplan!!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Brada I can't deal with you anymore.
If I asked Marc and Iron was European civilization founded by indigenous black Europeans before whites arrived? They would say yes.
If I asked Marc and Iron were the founding royal familes of Europe founded by Black people? They would say yes.
If I asked marc and Iron were the Hapsburgs blacks? They would say yes.
But I asked you any of these questions you would probably have a long avoiding the question type answer if any at all.
You are merely Marc and Iron Lite.
I need full strength idiots
The history of Islam in southern Italy begins with the Islamic conquest and subsequent rule of Sicily and Malta, a process that started in the 9th century. These Muslims invaders came after l the earlier periods Phoenician, Greek, Roman and Byzantine.
An influx of Africans is only one period within the Muslim period of Sicily.
All of this heraldry we look at, much of it German, the families who used the Moors heads on the crests were not founded by Muslims. Muslims didn't do European style heraldry with all it's Christian symbolism. There is no connection and this thread is about Coats of Arms.
Many historians have recently argued that the Norman conquest of Islamic Sicily (1060–91) was the start of the Crusades. This is the period after Muslim domination, the period that Johaness Morus was a part of. There was a Muslim community in Sicily then but they were no longer in control.
The use of the Moor in herladry in my opinion looks more like a form of domination over Muslims and blacks. It's like parading a head around on a pole. Later it becomes cute and decorative. I find it kind of mocking of black people and always stereotypically jet black just like some racist objects that used to be made in America
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. . L: Brada I can't deal with you anymore.
M: He is a man of character, intelligence, and honor.
Who are you? Why the heck should he waste his good time with a deceitful, disingenuous ill-willed, person?
. .
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
. .
AP, you are a BIG liar. You state that I have been banned from hundreds of sites and you come up with a single quote that I wrote that I have been banned from sections of a single forum (and so what) and not from the forum or even single forum itself.
It is their shame, not mine.
As I said, you are a cheap liar who resorts to mistruths to score points and try to win arguments.
You are a liar. You have no character and follow in a long tradition of whites who are just like you.
. .
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Lioness
quote:Brada I can't deal with you anymore.
Gomenasai Lioness-chan I know I can be difficult at times as I don't like to give simplistic answers to complex questions and especially if I provided the same links along with cut N paste on the same subject on more than one occasion in discussions that you took part in, again either you were over come with amnesia or you did not bother reading them,this time I gave you clues to follow, am I not merciful!!!
Lioness
quote:The use of the Moor in herladry in my opinion looks more like a form of domination over Muslims and blacks. It's like parading a head around on a pole. Later it becomes cute and decorative. I find it kind of mocking of black people and always stereotypically jet black just like some racist objects that used to be made in America
Here you have just flipped script with Edmond what color shoes are you wearing??
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: . . L: Brada I can't deal with you anymore.
M: He is a man of character, intelligence, and honor.
Who are you? Why the heck should he waste his good time with a deceitful, disingenuous ill-willed, person?
. .
becasue you can learn from people who have opposing views
I take back the idiot thing, that's just Iron. I would say are a little misguided
Posted by DHDoxies (Member # 19701) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ^ Egmond has been banned on over 30 forums, and has had his ISP blocked. See links on other page.
In regards to your account(s):
quote:Name me one single forum I have been banned from
You go by the name paulmarcw.
While Egmond was perm banned at Historum.com for trolling, you have been banned from most sections on the forum for your trollish threads.
On the 14th November 2011 you write:
quote:Odd that in the 21st century in an era of free speech I am to my knowledge the only member of historum banned from all subjects but those in the speculative section.
lol. You are the *only* one banned from all subjects because you a troll.
For those interested, you can find Marcs absolutely retarded threads here:
I mean WTF... look at these threads they range from claiming ''blacks formerly had straight hair in Europe'' to threads about black habsburgs.
hahah.
I always knew Marc you had a deep insecurity and self-hatred about your Negroid nappy hair...
your thread is called:
''Kings of England and when Africans had long hair''
lmao.
More fantasy and self-hatred projection.
As i've been saying on this forum for years - EVERY single black person envies whites since we have long flowing hair. You are fixated with us and our hair out of extreme envy, and you despise your little afros. its really lame.
Thanks for that info Cass, after reading Markie boy White people hater's threads there I'm inspired to start a new thread LOL.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Not for nothing Cassis but straight haired broad featured Blacks do exist just as Herodotus said.This guy is from Afghanistan of all places.
quote:The Eastern Ethiopians---for two nations of this name served in the army---were marshalled with the Indians [probably those who currently speak the Dravidian language Brahui, who presently live in Pakistan, west of the Indus River. ---ed.]. They differed in nothing from the other Ethiopians, save in their language, and the character of their hair. For the Eastern Ethiopians have straight hair, while they of Libya are more woolly-haired than any other people in the world.
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Mikey boy White people hating, Black racist, no as far as I know none of my ancestors were slaves. How do we know you didn't invade & enslave us and change all those portraits to Black to cover up our history & we discovered what you had done & changed them back LOL ROTFLMBO.
Marc, you are the liar. Trying to claim that Whites in Europe were Black. All you White people hating, White genocidist, Black racist, Black supremacists are the same, wanting to steal what isn't yours. Trying to deny other races of their history, their heritage, their identities, their homelands. You, Mikey boy, Eghead, IronLiar, Liar Winters, & ilk particularly love doing that to Whites because you want to demean & degrade Whites, you want to deny us of anything, to make us feel that we have nothing to be proud of as a people.
Don't take it serious... you are being trolled.
Marc, Egmond et al are trolls who have been banned on hundreds of forums. No one takes their claims serious. They only post for a reaction.
See this post:
quote:I thought i would google search egmond's name since his posts are so trollish.
Turns out he has been banned on over 30 forums and is known as the ''dutch mega-troll''.
Among forums he has been banned from (direct links):
as someone posted from a forum egmond was banned at above -
''so i googled your name and you've been a very busy man and you've managed to get banned at every forum you posted at. you're gonna run out of forums soon''
--- Egmond probably isn't even black.
He's just posting his insane claims across the net (e.g that queen elizabeth or jane austen was black) for a reaction. He's a troll.
Egmond has been banned from every single forum except this forum. Why won't egypt search just get rid of him?
It'c clear he's a fake, has been banned on over 30 sites and just posts to get a reaction.
Egmond is known as the ''dutch mega troll'' over the net, and has had most forums block his ISP. He has been banned on over 30 forums for trolling (just the ones that appear on a google search) but probably hundred more. I'm sure Marc is exactly the same.
Is this Djehuta? Why is he provoking me, by using my name in vain? Should not he be answering the Amsterdam Social Services for having a succesful (?) trade in Apple computer stuff, next to the monies they give him? Is not he a thief and a fraudeur, who needs to be checked right now?
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
That lioness trash has some spunk, I must say, as I was thinking about what an ingrate Sir Drake would have been, by exposing his friend and well-wisher and provider as a fornicator. Was she not supposed to be The goddamn Virgin Queen? Pure as the driven goddam snow? And now this terrible Drake would be parading around with a badge, the Drake Jewel, proclaiming to all the world that Elizabeth Regina is nothing more then a common whore, f ucked from all sides by this marvelous Black King with his big, spunk drooping dick?
Just say no to drugs, please!
Symbolism
The letter
Boys with a wounded angel: how to explain that this angel does not exist, that its presence is symbolic, to primitive people who believe in ghosts and angels?
Louise de Kerouaille, mistress of Charles II Stuart with a Moor.
Nobody with a brain needs sources to tell them that nobody would hire or buy a toddler to carry around the precious crystal glasses during visits and late night parties, no?
Nobody with a brain needs to be told that such a creature in no way could posses a kings ransom in pearls and coral to give to its beloved mistress, no?
So although all these paintings, scenes, are realistic in style they are fantasies, to convey meaning. They tell an important story. To take them at face value is down right stupid.
The little Black girl is not named, because she does not exist. If Madame de Kerouaille kept a Moor as a pet, we should find about it, but this image is no proof of any of that. The little girl symbolises De Kerouaille’s blue blood, high birth, and boy is she happy with all the privileges it brings, sleeping with the King of England no less.
He paying all her gambling debts, recognising their bastard children, giving them titles and benefices. She was a friend of Madame, the Kings sister Minette, who was married with Monsieur, the brother of Louis XIV, who was a poof. Minette was probably poisoned by her husband and suffered a terrible death. But de Kerouaille was employed by Louis as a spy at the Britisch Court. He was aligned to his cousin Charles II by a secret treaty to return Britain to the catholic fold, and provided money to Charles II so he could rule and wage war without the help of Parliament. Charles reverted to Catholicism on his deathbed or even earlier.
So the little Moorress is a symbol, a mythical ancestor, a concept of superiority and nobility. And off course Kerouaille was not white of skin, as a member of the old aristocracy.
Anyway, no-one knows the provenance of the Drake Jewel Cameo. But Cameos are commissioned by Royalties and provided as gifts to their followers. Commoners like Francis Drake had no business making cameos, just like they had no business making tiara jewel crowns.
Additionally and as an aside, the dirt and filth that follow in your imagination suggest that you seriously need therapy, especially psychological intervention. You do need some medications, DRUGS, by the way you sound, to relieve your putrid maladies. Step back and smell your stink... Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
Sir Drake proudly wearing his Drake Jewel: thinking he must have been part of the creation of this jewel. The cameo is quite small, smaller than a €1 coin, as I saw it in Brussels. I actually took a bus all the way to Brussels just to see this precious piece.
Jane Austen showed in 'Mansfield Park' how Blacks mistreated their own kind, teaching others how to mistreat Blacks: bringing on the down fall of Blacks by their own folly. Compared to you, the whites on this forum have been quite respectfull and courteous to me, but it will take another Black to show no limits in his hatred of another Black. So nothing has really changed, Blacks still selling Blacks down the river.
Black stud
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Cameos are signets of Royalties provided to their followers as medals of recognition.
Francis Drake wore what he was given by Elizabeth the first.
A Queen is entitled to the Consort she chooses just like a King. Whoever that beloved Muurish Prince that appeared on the cameo with the queen, will also become clearer as our researchers continue to strive.
But a picture cannot be denied its implication, and imageries are worth more than your 10,000 prurient words and gestures.
Again, in my world-view, even our dogs will not deign it fit to piss on your homosexual corpse.
Go svck on your pink juu-boi studs. Weirdo!
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Coat of arms in pictures of both William of Orange and Anna of Saxony
.
Blue blood is black blood : the iconographical proof of a dominating black and colored European race who were a noble and royal elite (1500-1789) = Blauw bloed is zwart bloed : het iconografisch bewijs van een dominerende zwarte en gekleurde Europese natie die een adellijke en koninklijke elite was (1500-1789) Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / [2009]
This image was put on the web by me, and appears in my book:
Blue blood is black blood : the iconographical proof of a dominating black and colored European race who were a noble and royal elite (1500-1789) = Blauw bloed is zwart bloed : het iconografisch bewijs van een dominerende zwarte en gekleurde Europese natie die een adellijke en koninklijke elite was (1500-1789) Codfried, Egmond / Codfried / [2009]
I found it at the Iconographical Bureau/RKD in The Hague
It's inscribed:
p9:91 Beresteyn 1933 Vries Feyens.GL. Aanw. 5096973
Posted by Egmond Codfried (Member # 15683) on :
[Eliza de Feullide, cousin of Jane Austen, whitened]
So white shoe leather trash says William I of Orange (1533-1584) cannot be identified as Black, as no African ancestor is provided. and he might have been tanned.
There is progress here because it used to be that a SSA ancestor needed to be provided, a true Negro, a slave ancestor. That has been dropped and now any African will make do. Oh, My.
And tanning. Were we not told that decent people did not tan? How will the Prince go and tan himself and has his likeness taken too?
Jane Austen (1775-1817) mentions in a letter a lady of the high society going out with her for trekking around Bath without a hat or a muff. Her cousin Countess De Feuillide brags about how she heigtened the native brown of her complexion with a Tan, after spending two years in the country, at her husbands castle.
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Cardinal Lorenzo Pucci by Parmigianino 1529-30,
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