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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Having ignored my own advice to always consider the source, I foolishly bought the book after being intrigued by another’s comments. Now that I have the book, it is readily apparent why I had never heard of it before, it is pretty much a piece of dry sh1t with nothing new.

But it DOES have value, it demonstrates to modern Blacks just how outrageously bold Albinos used to be with their lies and falsifications. Clearly, they never expected that one day Black researchers would come behind them, and examine all that they had done and said – and prove them to be degenerate liars and obfuscators.

BACKGROUND:

Excavations at the site were initiated under John L. Caskey in 1952, whose efforts initiated the series of publications of Bronze Age Lerna, Lerna I-V, inspiring many other publications. Caskey famously bailed on the race issue with this statement: Quote – “It would be premature, and not within the scope of this paper, to discuss the questions of race and migration that are implicit in the proposals here advanced.”

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Occupation:
Lerna was occupied in Neolithic times, as early as the fifth millennium BCE, then was abandoned for a time before the sequence of occupation from the Early Bronze Age (Helladic period through the Mycenaean). On-site techniques of flint-knapping with imported obsidian and chert attest to cultural continuity over this long stretch of time, with reduction in the supply of obsidian from Melos testifying to reduced long-distance trade at the end of Early Helladic III, corresponding to Lerna IV.

Lerna has one of the largest prehistoric tumuli of Greece, accumulated during a long Neolithic occupation; then its crest was levelled and extended — as at Early Helladic Eutresis and Orchomenus— in a new settlement: this stratum, called Lerna III in the site's stratigraphy, corresponds with Early Helladic II at other sites. Lerna III lacks signs of continuity with the previous occupation; it is the site of a two-storey palace or administrative center that is referred to as House of the Tiles, for the terracotta tiles that sheathed its roof (an early example of tile roofing).

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This strongly fortified power center dates to the Early Bronze Age culture called Early Helladic, ca 2500 - 2200 BCE. Though five stages of occupation at Lerna have been identified, the site of "House of the Tiles", after it had been destroyed by fire, was not rebuilt upon, whether through respect or fear, until, at the end of the Middle Helladic period, shaft graves were cut into the tumulus of the House of Tiles, indicating that the significance of that monument had been forgotten. Lerna was used as a cemetery during the Mycenaean age, but was abandoned about 1250 BCE.

Ceramics of Lerna III include the hallmark spouted vessels that archaeologists name "sauceboats", with rims that sweep upwards into a curved spout, as well as bowls with incurving rims, both flat-bottomed and with ring bases, and wide saucers, sometimes with glazed rims, more pleasant for the drinker's lips. Jars and hydria have swelling curves. Painted decoration is sparse; stamped sealing form decorative patterns on some pieces, or rolled scribed cylinders have been used to make banded patterns. Remarkably, banded patterns made with the self-same seal have been found at Lerna, Tiryns and Zygouries. The burning of the House of Tiles brought the Third Period at Lerna to a decisive close; a low round tumulus marked its undisturbed, apparently sacrosanct site.

Lerna IV (Early Helladic III) marked a fresh start, not as a fortified seat of central authority this time, but as a small town, with houses of two and three rooms with walls of crude brick set upon stone foundations; several had central circular hearths. Narrow lanes separated houses. A great profusion of unlined pits (bothroi) was characteristic of this phase: eventually they became filled with waste matter, bones, potsherds, even whole pots. The pottery, markedly discontinuous with Lerna III, shows a range of new forms, and the first signs— regular spiral grooves in bases and parallel incised lines— marking the increasing use of the potter's wheel. Painted linear decoration in dark glaze on the pale body is characteristic of Lerna IV. Caskey identified early examples of the ware that in Middle Helladic contexts would be recognized as Minyan ware, and, among the few examples of imported pottery, a winged jar characteristic of Troy, perhaps Troy IV.

Lerna V is continuous with the preceding phase, distinguished largely by new styles in pottery with the sudden, peaceful introduction of matte-painted ware, the thick-slipped Argive version of gray Minyan ware, and a vigorous increase in the kinds of imported wares, coming from the Cyclades and Crete (Middle Minoan IA). A new custom of burying the dead in excavations within the houses or between them is universal at the period.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
John Lawrence Angel (1915–1986) was a British-American biological anthropologist. He was appointment in 1962 as Curator of Physical (Biological) Anthropology at the National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution. This book, The People of Lerna was published in 1971.

On page 5 Angel says this: Quote: “This is a visual classification and approach of the sort which we all use in everyday life. For this reason I use visual appraisal and not the arbitrary combinations of indices which Dixon 1923, and Hooton 1930 used, nevertheless, the history of anthropology shows typologies to be dangerous; as oversimplifications, they have been used for the worst purposes of generalizations and racism. Then the degenerate racist goes on to use terms to describe what are overwhelmingly Black skulls, with Albino related terms.

Timeframe - Early, Middle, late Neolithic - 6,000 - 5,000 - 4,000 B.C.

Early bronze 3,000, (Early Helladic III starting at 2,200 B.C.
Middle bronze - late Helladic I-II – 2,000-1,600 B.C.
Late bronze late Helladic I-III and Mycenaean – 1,600 – 1,150 B.C.
Early iron age 1,150-650 B.C.
Geometric ceramic period - 850-650 B.C.

Page 29 - circa 2,000 B.C. those causing the destruction of Lerna - proto-Hellenes, were probably the first of several waves reaching Greece. Gimbutas (1963) sees the origin of these indo-European people as the steppe farmers east of the Caspian Sea, then later, the kurgan people north of the black sea.

Skull Types as defined by Angel:

A) Linear rugged skull, with reduced but sometimes wide upper face and strong jaws.

Basic white, Cro-Magnon, Eurafrican, (as in latest paleolithic Russia - Debets 1955, or Hotu 2 in north Iran - Angel 1952, or in north Africa from Nubia to morocco - Anderson 1968, Ferembach 1962, Biggs 1955, as well as in central Europe - Coon 1939.

Basic White type AI is close to the British Megalithic form and to the Atlanto-Mediterranean of Deniker and others. it is longer-faced, more linear than A3. Type A2 is a smaller version of the upper paleolithic norm and is broader based and more rugged than A3, the central basic white which approximates the Eurafrican, and is a smaller version of Cro-magnon. A4 is a squat-faced and low-headed version of A3 being more eastern than African. A5 is a more massive version.

B) Extremely gracile paedomorphic, linear, pinched-face,
Classic Mediterranean - clear only late at Wadi en Natuf and elsewhere in the steppe-desert edge from Anau in Turkestan westward to morocco - McCown 1939, Angel 1951, Ferembach 1962.

The classic Mediterranean type B1 is a generalized Mediterranean whereas B2 is the more angular form as often found in Egypt. types B3 more linear, B4 with the long face approximate the desert belt versions from north Africa and Siwah to Hissar and Kazakhstan.


C) Paedomorphic with reduced and rounded face, but keeping the wide Neanderthal skull base and brain, and hence a wide skull (Alpinoid) as at Solutre and Ofnet - Coon 1939, and elsewhere in central Europe.

Alpine C1 is typical central European alpine. C2 is a smaller version of this, C3 is the upper Paleolithic to Mesolithic form. C4 is short faced but narrow-nosed and with an almost flat occiput, it is eastern but not Armenoid form. C5 is a low-headed and squat-faced version of C4.

D) Forms with reduced massiveness, keeping Neanderthal anterior face, downgrowth and nose strength to resist oblique forward chewing stresses.
(Nordic-Iranian, Irano-Afghan, corded etc. as in Hotu 1, later at Sialk, Vallois 1939 and Hissar, Krogman 1940, in northern Iran, Ginsburg 1956, and with corded culture in Europe, Coon 1939.

Nordic-Iranian type D1 lies between Anglo-Saxon and keltic area norms. and D2 is the earlier pre-bronze age corded form which coon identifies. D3 is lighter and more hawk-nosed and is transitional to the Mediterranean type B4 and D4 (Iranian) which is the proto-Iranian of Vallois and proto-Nordic of krogman. D5 approximates coons Danubian-Hallstatt.


E) Direct paedomorphic transformations, large, high-vaulted mesocrane with big forehead and reduced face (Mixed Alpine) as in Hotu 3 at Jericho, Ofnet and Teviec in central and Western Europe.

Mixed Alpine E1 has A3 form puffed-out and more paedomorhhic. E2 is Nordic Alphine and E3 is Mediterranean alpine.


F) Long nose, big face, vaguely Neanderthaloid like forms like D or B, and comparatively short and high-vault (dinaroid, dinaric-mediterranean, as in central European Mesolithic at Hohlenstein and Kaufertsberg and much later in the near east, Angel 1951.

Dinaric- mediterranean type F1 is the lighter more Mediterranean version found in lower Egypt or Anatolia. F2 is the broader bigger-faced more dinaroid version. F3 is the low-headed east Balkan version with some Iranian face features. F4 has a more Iranian face and short vault and little occipital bulge.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Because of the Bullsh1t terminology used by Angel, they only way to distinguish the skulls is by comparison.

THIS IS A TYPICAL ALBINO SKULL:

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THESE ARE "SOME" TYPICAL BLACK SKULLS.

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
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THE ALBINOS DEPEND ON OUR IGNORANCE OF WHAT BLACK SKULLS LOOK LIKE, TO PERPETRATE THEIR FRAUDS.

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE SKULLS OF LERNA.

 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^I don't know about anyone else, but the only skull that I see, which "Could" be Albino is 181.

I still can't get over the terms that lying piece of Albino sh1t used to describe these Black skulls.
 
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
Physical anthropological terms used to discuss ancient man are meant to 'white' Black people out of history.

Afrocentric researchers over the years saw through these terms and made it clear that Brown Race, euroAfrican, Old mediterranean, and etc. referred to negroes.

As a result, many anthropologists claim that 'race' does not exist, because the skeletons of the ancient founders of civilization are of 'negroes'. They know that many brainwashed negroes feel inferior to whites and desire a color-blind society--embrace the idea 'races ' don't exist, so they can feel less inferior.

Afrocentric researchers embrace the idea of race, because the craniometric evidences proves tha Blacks ruled many parts of Eurasia up to 1492, when the Moors were forced out of Iberia and Blacks in America were murdered by Spanish Explorers and their Amerindian allies.

Isn't it ironic that as a result of the slave trade Blacks have again become the dominant group in many parts of the south, northeast USA and central America, like they were in the pre-Columbian times.

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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^The religious people say that the lord looks after Children and Fools, so perhaps that's the answer.

While doing this report, it was brought home to me once again, what a disadvantage they have us at. They control everything - all the materials of OUR history, then they want to show it to us, and tell us what it all means - generally that it's them.

I wanted to present an African skull that was the exact match for each Lerna skull, but guess what I found - there is no collection of Black skulls, and certainly not one which shows each Black phenotype. Negroes really need to get their act together. Imagine, not even having a collection of skulls which show ALL Black diversity.

Thus when some lying Albino piece of sh1t like Angel, describes skulls like 10, 193, 176, 203: as "Alpine-Mediterranean". An ignorant Negro has no way of knowing that skulls like those, belong to children like this:

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Posted by Vansertimavindicated (Member # 20281) on :
 
As many of you have already figured out, this entire board consists of ONE sick degenerate that has created ficticious names to talk to itself in. Just a few of these fake names include CLYDE WINTERS, MIKE111,Egmond Codfried, Djehuti, NAMERTHOTH and THE LIONESS. These are just a FEW of the fake names that spend all day talking to itself because the ENTIRE site is comprised of this same ONE sick degenerate that has created fake names to talk to itself ALL DAY LONG! The only REAL and legitimate poster on this site is MYSELF and the rest cannot be trusted! DO NOT CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS OR BANNERS ON THIS SITE, unless they are links that I provide for you! There is NOONE on this site that can be trusted but me. The only links on this site that can be trusted are the ones that I provide for you! Here is a link that you can use as a resource and can be trusted!
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.cbpm.org/index.html


When you have finished reading this post check out this site to learn the truth about history and ALL civilzations. Do NOT be fooled by the real history link that the filthy monkey created using the race and history link as a guide. This is the ONLY site that can be trusted
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

Isnt it funny how this one little link destroys all of the charts, graphs and pics that the filthy monkey lies to us with? You now understand why the filthy monkey continues to spam the board with photos of modern day populations that had absolutely NOTHING to do with ancient Egypt

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

The next time one of these degenerates tries to tell you a lie just refer the moonkey to the latest DNA analysis on the ancient Egyptians, and then tell the faggot to crawl back in its cave!

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


This pretty much destroys all of the outdated and fallaceous sources that the silly monkey uses doesnt it?
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


The pig just keeps showing us why these crackers should not exist! They have genetically recessive genes and ion 50 years they will be the minority in BRITAIN!! THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY DIE OUT LIKE THE UNATURAL ABOMINATIONS THAT THEY ARE!

Look at the low IQ monkey with its charts and pictures LOL tHE dna analysis does not matter to this monkey, because it lives in a world of fantasy! lol

Folks, the monkey performs at my commend. I am this monkeys master!But then again all one needs to do is take a cursury look at this monkeys youtube page to understand the tenuous grip on reality that this monkey has! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/user/phoenician7

When the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians what does a low IQ monkey do???

The low IQ monkey shows pictures and charts and munbles on and on about haplogroups while completely ignoring what the DNA analysis of the ancient Egyptians actually says LOL


the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians. Thats what the DNA says, thats what the science says. This monkey in all of its fake names is very pathetic isnt it?

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

Bookmark this link as it can definitely be TRUSTED
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.cbpm.org/index.html
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Vansertimavindicated - I really don't appreciate you demonstrating your deranged mind on this, a most serious thread.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^The religious people say that the lord looks after Children and Fools, so perhaps that's the answer.

While doing this report, it was brought home to me once again, what a disadvantage they have us at. They control everything - all the materials of OUR history, then they want to show it to us, and tell us what it all means - generally that it's them.

I wanted to present an African skull that was the exact match for each Lerna skull, but guess what I found - there is no collection of Black skulls, and certainly not one which shows each Black phenotype. Negroes really need to get their act together. Imagine, not even having a collection of skulls which show ALL Black diversity.

Thus when some lying Albino piece of sh1t like Angel, describes skulls like 10, 193, 176, 203: as "Alpine-Mediterranean". An ignorant Negro has no way of knowing that skulls like those, belong to children like this:

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BTW - The child above is Somali - they are neither Alpine nor Mediterranean.

But it does demonstrate that Ancient Greece was full of Black people, from all over the world.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Being a deranged, racist, Albino piece of sh1t: Angel undoubtedly carefully chose to display only skulls, that to the pedestrian eye, might appear Albino.

That is proven by the fact that no skulls like these - which are unmistakeably Black, and plentiful in the area - were not displayed.

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Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
.


a skull from Mike's realhistoryww.com that
Mike intentionally left out in this thread
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now compare in particular
the shapes of the nasal opening to the Caucasian skull he did show in this thread:
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now simply apply what you have learned from Mike's website to the Lerna skulls


Another thing that Mike intetionally leaves out on his website is a profile view of the Human Male African Skull.
He only shows the profile view of the Human Male European skull
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now compare the above skull to the below skull:

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^^^ well what do we have here ???

fooled you it's another Caucasian skull. it's just in a sitting on a table and that creates a slight angle as to how it's placed and the jaw appears to stick out more

BUT WHY DOESN'T MIKE111 SHOW THE PROFILE VIEW OF THE MALE AFRICAN SKULL ???

here look at this from the Simithsonian:

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Assessment of Ancestral Background from the Skull: Case Studies from Greece

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ispub.com/journal/the-internet-journal-
 
Posted by facts (Member # 19596) on :
 
Then how did all these places turn white? That is your confounding variable to which you give no account in this convoluted theory of yours.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
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AFRICAN
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EUROPEAN
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PEOPLE OF LERNER

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Mike's bullcrap utterly destroyed part 2
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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by facts:
Then how did all these places turn white? That is your confounding variable to which you give no account in this convoluted theory of yours.

facts - Sorry: Damn you're gullible.

What, Blacks only have ONE phenotype?

Why do you suppose I included the other African skulls?

And that was only a small sample, which I lamented about in a post above. What, you can't read either?

I sure hope that you're an Albino, heaven knows, we already have enough gullible Negroes.

Lioness is to be laughed at, not argued with!
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:


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____________^^^^ note the bridge of the nose at the very top of it, a little inner scooping shape.
Often this delicate thin area is broken off in varying degrees in damaged skulls but here it is relatively intact


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I would describe Mike as layman in training when it comes to Craniometry
 
Posted by facts (Member # 19596) on :
 
dont be a shmuck. In Africa we see a variety yet how come the white pheonotype prevails in those places not considered indigenous places of Negroes?


quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by facts:
Then how did all these places turn white? That is your confounding variable to which you give no account in this convoluted theory of yours.

facts - Sorry: Damn you're gullible.

What, Blacks only have ONE phenotype?

Why do you suppose I included the other African skulls?

And that was only a small sample, which I lamented about in a post above. What, you can't read either?

I sure hope that you're an Albino, heaven knows, we already have enough gullible Negroes.

Lioness is to be laughed at, not argued with!


 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^There is no place on Earth NOT indigenous to Blacks.

I suggest that you do some reading before going on, and making a fool of yourself.

BTW - if you insist on pursuing such nonsense, please bring specifics as to WHERE Blacks are not indigenous.
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
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Not surprising. Lots of data show links with tropical Africans.
Your "albinos" are themselves a mongrel breed if race
percent approaches are applied across the board.

Such controversies also offer good insight into
EUrocentric hypocrisy- which ES has often exposed.
Gene frequencies are sometimes touted as "racial" markers-
i.e. high frequencies of certain genes in "Eurasian" areas
enables the population to be labeled as "EUrasian."
But the same method is, curiously, too often, not applied when
African gene data is involved. Hence high frequencies
of certain genes in Africa do not earn them the "African"
label when there are overlaps into Europe and the
so-called "Middle East". Many who speak expansively
of "mixed races" in Africa suddenly maintain a mysterious
silence when the concept is extended into EUrope.
Suddenly numerous sub-divisions, obfuscations and
"qualifications" enter the labeling picture - the
standard modus operandi of Euro-centric hypocrisy
and double standards.


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1-- Villena's Greek-Macedonian-African study has
nothing to do with the Jew-Palestinian controversy.

The study was withdrawn for political reasons, and
offended sensibilities of various Jewish and other groups.
Assorted "biodiversity" types try to use that
to advance a bogus claim that the Greek data was
"withdrawn." Total BS. It is alive and well and
appears specifically in Vilenna's Greek study:
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks
Tissue Antigens 2001: 57: 118–127

Jewish - Palestinian controversies have nothing
to do with it.

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2-- The Palestinian study also notes that Greeks are
related to Africans via cystic fibrosis mutations.

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3-- It is true that the data being used is highly
variable HLA genes. However the presence of Japanese
clustering with south Africans is not as far fetched
as it seems. HLA genes are useful in analyzing certain
arthritis conditions.
There is hard medical data
in various HLA studies that indeed show Japanese
and south African blacks grouping together in
relation to arthritis conditions. See the data below.

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4-- Anthro/Archaeo data show the presence of African
traits (and remember Africans have a wide variety of traits)
in the Neolithic data. The full info has already been posted
but here is some anthro/archaeo data affirming the presence
of "negroid" traits from early times:

quote: "The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2
was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as
a number of 'negroid' .. traits in the face." The skull is fairly
complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis."
There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be
described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic
diagnosis of Negro crania... "

-- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.

"Early Neolithic Macedonia centered on a Dinaric-Mediterranean (type F)
average but with an extremely broad nose, more prognathism, and a
little more mouth tilt than expected (all, perhaps from negroid
development of the incisor region.."

-- The people of Lerna: analysis of a prehistoric Aegean population. J.L Angel 1971

"The portrayal on the 'minature fresco' from Thera, and on the other,
very fragmentary Aegean frescoes, of diverse stylistic elements- flora a
nd fauna, 'negroid' human representations, the riverine setting, of the
'minature fresco,' etc- that seem to be north African, 'Libyan' or Egyptian in origin."

--The Aegean and the Orient in the second millennium:
proceedings of the 50th anniversary symposium, Cincinnati, 18-20 April 1997

"The inhabitants of the Aegean area in the Bronze Age may have
been much like many people in the Mediterranean basin today,
short and slight of build with dark hair and eyes and sallow
complexions. Skeletons show that the population of the Aegean
was already mixed by Neolithic times, and various facial types,
some with delicate features and pointed noses, others pug-nosed,
almost negroid, are depicted in wall paintings from the 16th century BC..."

-- The Home of the Heroes: The Aegean Before the Greeks (1967)


------------------ Scholars also link the Negroid elements to sickle-cell anemia-------
QUOTE:
"The female from Grave 2 is among those with thickened parietals.
It should be pointed out that maxillary prognathsm, one of the skeleton's
"Negroid" features, is characteristic both of thalassemia and sickle-cell anemia."

-- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.

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5-- Other elements like Benin Sickle Cell traits
are also found among the Greeks and various Africans
and some skeletal/cranial studies find African
elements in Greece (Angel 1972 for example)

QUOTE:

"A late Pleistocene-early Holocene northward migration (from Africa to the Levant and to Anatolia) of these populations has been hypothesized from skeletal data (Angel 1972, 1973; Brace 2005) and from archaeological data, as indicated by the probable Nile Valley origin of the "Mesolithic" (epi-Paleolithic) Mushabi culture found in the Levant (Bar Yosef 1987). This migration finds some support in the presence in Mediterranean populations (Sicily, Greece, southern Turkey, etc.; Patrinos et al.; Schiliro et al. 1990) of the Benin sickle cell haplotype. This haplotype originated in West Africa and is probably associated with the spread of malaria to southern Europe through an eastern Mediterranean route (Salares et al. 2004) following the expansion of both human and mosquito populations brought about by the advent of the Neolithic transition (Hume et al 2003; Joy et al. 2003; Rich et al 1998). This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005), in concordance with a process of demic diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."

-- F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564


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6-- Other cultural/archaeo data testify to the African presence, africans again having a wde range of features

QUOTES
"THE FORERUNNERS During the Early Minoan period the population of southern Crete may have included a Negroid element. The presence of such an element from Libya in the Cretan population has been argued on the basis of an inlay of shell now in the Ashmolean Museum. This inlay may have come from an early circular tomb at Ayios Onouphrios. It depects a bearded face, with thick lips and snub nose. Other objects might lead to the same observaton for later periods. Among the faiences showing house fronts (Middle Minoan II)15 there is one in which are seen the prow of a ship and swarthy, prognathous, clearly Negroid people, some steatopygic...
It is uncertain, however, what role to assign to the non-Minoan figures in this scene, which it has been suggested, may represent the represent the siege of a seacoast town. Scholars are in greater agreement with respect to their interpretations of the coal black spearmen who appear in a fragment of a fresco, which Evans called The Captain of the Blacks, belonging to Late Minoan 145 II.18 The fresco depicts a Minoan captain, wearing a yellow kilt and a horned cap of skin, who leads, at the double, a file of black men similarly dressed."

-- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976

"The Theran is a young man whose black wavy hairm rather thick lips, and nose with reduced platyrrniny are clearly shown. Although he acknowledges that these traits suggest a NEgrito or Nubian, Marinatos avoids precise anthropological definition and concludes that the characteristics seem to indicate an "African".


"An intrepretation of NEgroes in Crete and Pylos as soldiers would have some support in the example of Egypt, with its long tradition of Nubian mercenaries. A striking example, belonging somewhat earlier period that that of the Minoan Captain of the Blacks fresco, is provided by the wooden models of forthy black archers in Cairo, found in a tomb of a prince of Assiut." pg 138

L. Bertholon and E. Chantre have analyzed results of black-white crossings in their detailed anthropoligical study of ancient and modern Tripolitiana, Tunisia, and Algeria. They call attention to the degrees of Negro admixture as evidenced by the extent to which Negroid features appear in mixed North African peoples. R. Bartoccini in his study of the somatic characteristics of anciet Libyans, illustrates his observations on racial crossings between Libyans and Negroes from the interior by pointing to the Negroid nose (broad) and hair (curly or wooly) .."

"Some of the physical features of this type are: dark or black color expressed in a variety of ways, tightly curled platyrrhine nose, and thick, often everted lips. '

"In a scene on a red-figured calyx-krater of the peropd from Canicattoni, now in Syracuse, a female dancer, fully draped, stands on tiptoe. The treatment of the nose, the lips and the tightly curled hair indicates that Negroid features were intended.. the realism and anthropological fidelity of those cited above leave no doubt as to the artists' intent.." pg 171
-- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976

-------------------------------

7.. ADDITIONAL DATA: AFRICAN HAPLOGROUP E FOUND IN GREEKS


QUOTE:
"Underhill et al. (2001) showed that the frequency of the
YAP+ Y haplogroup commonly referred to as haplogroup E or
(III) is relatively high (about 25%) in the Middle East
and Mediterranean. This haplogroup E is the major haplogroup
found in sub-Saharan Africa (over 75% of all Y chromosomes).
SPecifically, Europeans contain the E3b subhaplogroup, which
was derived from haplogroup E in sub-Saharan Africa and
currently is distributed along the North and East of Africa..
It appears that the 171 AIM test subject of this chapter may
recognize the haplogroup E character as West African."


--T. Frudakis. 2006. Molecular photofitting: predicting ancestry and phenotype using DNA
Well according to genetic analyses the Greeks are close to 1/4th black carrying 23% African paternal lineages.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova - I think you miss the point.

It's NOT that Greeks were MIXED with Africans.

It's that Greeks WERE Africans!
 
Posted by facts (Member # 19596) on :
 
Never mind, Mike, seeing as the point went right over your head.
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
quote:

 -

^^^ well what do we have here ???

fooled you it's another Caucasian skull. it's just in a sitting on a table and that creates a slight angle as to how it's placed and the jaw appears to stick out more



where is this skull from? wherever its from it's not caucasian.
 
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike111:



 -

...

European prognathism? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
This thread is a perfect example of Afrocentrics posting something they don't have a clue about.

Dental over-bite is not aveolar prognathism. The latter is the projection of the aveolar sockets and ridges, not tooth malocclusion. The vast majority of Caucasoids have small over-bite by 3mm - 5 mm.

Diet modifies dental occlusion. So Caucasoids have modified their teeth, as unlike other races (Australoids) they aren't eating primitive food -which requires flat grinding surface (edge to edge bite as opposed to overbite).
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Lion - Interesting thing about prognathism, I could never figure out why Albinos seems to be obsessed with equating it with Blacks, when in fact, Albinos have just as high a frequency of it as Blacks. As shown by Lioness, that August institution of American racism - the Smithsonian - has made it a definition of Black phenotype.

.


 -

Then it came to me:

CHARLES V:

 -

The Albinos were ruled by prognathic Blacks for so long, that it has been encoded into their DNA to equate prognathism with Blacks.

 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Mike, Caucasoids are not prognathic. You and Ironlion have confused prognathism with overbite.

Dental malocclusion is not prognathism.

You guys are both retards who don't know the basics, but then have the ignorance to create a thread as if you actually know something about craniometry or cephalometry.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^On the issue of Charles V.

Why was his portrait, and his alone, spared?

What was there about him, that prevented the Albinos from destroying or changing his image, as they had the images of all other Black rulers?

One day we will know, but right now, I have no clue.
 
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Mike, Caucasoids are not prognathic. You and Ironlion have confused prognathism with overbite.

Dental malocclusion is not prognathism.

You guys are both retards who don't know the basics, but then have the ignorance to create a thread as if you actually know something about craniometry or cephalometry.

Anglo-Hyper-idiot, [Big Grin]

Time for some Reading Lessons! See below: [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

quote:
One or more types of prognathism may result in the common condition of malocclusion (including overbite), in which an individual's top teeth and lower teeth do not align properly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prognathism

 -
 
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^On the issue of Charles V.

Why was his portrait, and his alone, spared?

What was there about him, that prevented the Albinos from destroying or changing his image, as they had the images of all other Black rulers?

One day we will know, but right now, I have no clue.

Yes indeed, it is still an unknown but as you can see they hide the identity of that painting for hundreds of years....
 
Posted by Vansertimavindicated (Member # 20281) on :
 
As many of you have already figured out, this entire board consists of ONE sick degenerate that has created ficticious names to talk to itself in. Just a few of these fake names include CLYDE WINTERS, MIKE111,Egmond Codfried, Djehuti, NAMERTHOTH and THE LIONESS. These are just a FEW of the fake names that spend all day talking to itself because the ENTIRE site is comprised of this same ONE sick degenerate that has created fake names to talk to itself ALL DAY LONG! The only REAL and legitimate poster on this site is MYSELF and the rest cannot be trusted! DO NOT CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS OR BANNERS ON THIS SITE, unless they are links that I provide for you! There is NOONE on this site that can be trusted but me. The only links on this site that can be trusted are the ones that I provide for you! Here is a link that you can use as a resource and can be trusted!
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.cbpm.org/index.html


When you have finished reading this post check out this site to learn the truth about history and ALL civilzations. Do NOT be fooled by the real history link that the filthy monkey created using the race and history link as a guide. This is the ONLY site that can be trusted
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

Isnt it funny how this one little link destroys all of the charts, graphs and pics that the filthy monkey lies to us with? You now understand why the filthy monkey continues to spam the board with photos of modern day populations that had absolutely NOTHING to do with ancient Egypt

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

The next time one of these degenerates tries to tell you a lie just refer the moonkey to the latest DNA analysis on the ancient Egyptians, and then tell the faggot to crawl back in its cave!

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


This pretty much destroys all of the outdated and fallaceous sources that the silly monkey uses doesnt it?
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


The pig just keeps showing us why these crackers should not exist! They have genetically recessive genes and ion 50 years they will be the minority in BRITAIN!! THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY DIE OUT LIKE THE UNATURAL ABOMINATIONS THAT THEY ARE!

Look at the low IQ monkey with its charts and pictures LOL tHE dna analysis does not matter to this monkey, because it lives in a world of fantasy! lol

Folks, the monkey performs at my commend. I am this monkeys master!But then again all one needs to do is take a cursury look at this monkeys youtube page to understand the tenuous grip on reality that this monkey has! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/user/phoenician7

When the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians what does a low IQ monkey do???

The low IQ monkey shows pictures and charts and munbles on and on about haplogroups while completely ignoring what the DNA analysis of the ancient Egyptians actually says LOL


the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians. Thats what the DNA says, thats what the science says. This monkey in all of its fake names is very pathetic isnt it?

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

Bookmark this link as it can definitely be TRUSTED
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.cbpm.org/index.html
 
Posted by Omo Baba (Member # 18816) on :
 
Skulls from ancient Rome

 -

Mesopotamian skull with three holes cut in it

http://www.mitchellteachers.net/WorldHistory/MrMEarlyHumansProject/Images/SumerianAchievements/MesopotamianSkullSurgeryPlacard_large.jpg

Akhenaten
 -
 
Posted by Vansertimavindicated (Member # 20281) on :
 
As many of you have already figured out, this entire board consists of ONE sick degenerate that has created ficticious names to talk to itself in. Just a few of these fake names include CLYDE WINTERS, MIKE111,Egmond Codfried, Djehuti, NAMERTHOTH and THE LIONESS. These are just a FEW of the fake names that spend all day talking to itself because the ENTIRE site is comprised of this same ONE sick degenerate that has created fake names to talk to itself ALL DAY LONG! The only REAL and legitimate poster on this site is MYSELF and the rest cannot be trusted! DO NOT CLICK ON ANY OF THE LINKS OR BANNERS ON THIS SITE, unless they are links that I provide for you! There is NOONE on this site that can be trusted but me. The only links on this site that can be trusted are the ones that I provide for you! Here is a link that you can use as a resource and can be trusted!
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.cbpm.org/index.html


When you have finished reading this post check out this site to learn the truth about history and ALL civilzations. Do NOT be fooled by the real history link that the filthy monkey created using the race and history link as a guide. This is the ONLY site that can be trusted
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

Isnt it funny how this one little link destroys all of the charts, graphs and pics that the filthy monkey lies to us with? You now understand why the filthy monkey continues to spam the board with photos of modern day populations that had absolutely NOTHING to do with ancient Egypt

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

The next time one of these degenerates tries to tell you a lie just refer the moonkey to the latest DNA analysis on the ancient Egyptians, and then tell the faggot to crawl back in its cave!

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


This pretty much destroys all of the outdated and fallaceous sources that the silly monkey uses doesnt it?
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf


The pig just keeps showing us why these crackers should not exist! They have genetically recessive genes and ion 50 years they will be the minority in BRITAIN!! THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY DIE OUT LIKE THE UNATURAL ABOMINATIONS THAT THEY ARE!

Look at the low IQ monkey with its charts and pictures LOL tHE dna analysis does not matter to this monkey, because it lives in a world of fantasy! lol

Folks, the monkey performs at my commend. I am this monkeys master!But then again all one needs to do is take a cursury look at this monkeys youtube page to understand the tenuous grip on reality that this monkey has! LOL
http://www.youtube.com/user/phoenician7

When the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians what does a low IQ monkey do???

The low IQ monkey shows pictures and charts and munbles on and on about haplogroups while completely ignoring what the DNA analysis of the ancient Egyptians actually says LOL


the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians. Thats what the DNA says, thats what the science says. This monkey in all of its fake names is very pathetic isnt it?

http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf

Bookmark this link as it can definitely be TRUSTED
http://www.raceandhistory.com/

http://www.cbpm.org/index.html
 
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
...

Mike the major problem some people have in understanding that the historic ancient Europeans were Black is because they don’t have the knowledge base to comprehend this reality. I recommend those of you interested in understanding the archaeology of Blacks/Africans in Europe read : Nicolas Lahovary, Dravidian origins and the West: newly discovered ties with the ancient culture and languages, including Basque, of the pre-Indo-European Mediterranean world.




.
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
@ Mike. Fist thump double tap!! Just saw the thread.

Buy the book for one of many reasons, Bro. As you can see the book and books like these are really valueable for research. Ignore the BS. You know these white people are good at lying and trickery. But the pictures and records are what you use the book for..... like you did!

Trying reading some of the work of Pickering's when he travelled throughout the world and documented what he saw around the early 1800's. Ignoring some of his BSing what he saw is and eye opener to me. According him to some south African groups are orthognamous.
 
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova - I think you miss the point.

It's NOT that Greeks were MIXED with Africans.

It's that Greeks WERE Africans!

^^That may be so in a very broad sense, sure. All
humans on today's planet derive from African forbears.
All I am saying is that if some people want to talk
about "Race mixes" in Africa, then they must likewise
confront the reality of their own race model- that
whites themselves are a mixed mongrel race.


 -
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Clyde - the book is out of print.

If you have it, why not scan and post some selected test.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova - I think you miss the point.

It's NOT that Greeks were MIXED with Africans.

It's that Greeks WERE Africans!

^^That may be so in a very broad sense, sure. All
humans on today's planet derive from African forbears.
All I am saying is that if some people want to talk
about "Race mixes" in Africa, then they must likewise
confront the reality of their own race model- that
whites themselves are a mixed mongrel race.

In the broad sense?

You seem non-committal on Africans being the original settlers of Europe, and specifically Greeks being Africans.

I wonder then how you envision Albinos being a mongrel race.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:

 -

^^^ well what do we have here ???

fooled you it's another Caucasian skull. it's just in a sitting on a table and that creates a slight angle as to how it's placed and the jaw appears to stick out more



where is this skull from? wherever its from it's not caucasian.

here, I'll rotate the very same above skull to a
more natural position and it magically turns Caucasian, below:
 -

keep in mind the above person has an overbite which is common

However each of the below skull illustrations, European and African do not have overbites:
 -

 -

 -
Archaeological excavations at Kerma (Sudan) 2008-2009 season.
Between 2500 and 2400 BC
(has overbite)
 
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Clyde - the book is out of print.

If you have it, why not scan and post some selected test.

Its still being printed in India.

If you live near a major library they may be able to get the book for you through Inter-Library loan.

.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL @ the Lyinass's spinning.

One should be sure to note a difference between regular overbite and alveolar prognathism. Prognathism has long been identified by Eurocentrics as a "negroid" trait but when it is found outside Sub-Sahara and especially in Europe it then becomes "overbite".

From P.K. Manansala

Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans.

Studies have shown that persons of African descent tend to have greater projection of the alveolar region as compared to the lower mouth. The difference in projection measured as ANB (A point-nasion-B point) and research on persons of African descent has shown ranges from 5.5 to 4.3. In comparison with Caucasians, the values were from about 1.5 to 2 times greater (see Alexander et al., 1978; Downs,1948; Fonseca et al.,1978; Steiner, 1959).


The same can be said for other "negroid" features like broad noses or hyper-dolichocephaly.

Getting back to the topic, Mike brings up a valid point about the remains of Lerna which were discussed before in several other threads.


"The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' (not full negro)traits in the face." lo The skull is fairly complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania. Despite the presence of these traits, we must recall that we are quite ignorant of
the range of variation in cranial morphology among the Late Roman Corinthians. Consequently, attempts to identify the race of a single skull (one of only three preserved from the Lerna Hollow collection) are on unsure grounds. The features of this skull may, after all, be within the range of variation for the (presumably)
Caucasoid population of Corinth at this time.
''

The Skeletons of Lerna Hollow
Al B. Wesolowsky
Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.

As others have pointed out, note how the author in the passage above tries to make excuses by saying they are ignorant of the range of variation among ancient Europeans! LOL Too bad for her that we have the DNA evidence to back it up! Can anyone say E1b1b?
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Prognathism is easily detectable with a pencil - from the base of your nasal aperature hold the pencil downwards towards your chin.

If the pencil touches your chin - you are orthognathic and Caucasoid.

Prognathism is not overbite. Mike, Ironlion and now Djehuti are making this same mistake.

People with overbite, can PASS the pencil test.

Dental malocclusion is not the same as prognathism. As i already explained:

quote:
Dental over-bite is not aveolar prognathism. The latter is the projection of the aveolar sockets and ridges, not tooth malocclusion. The vast majority of Caucasoids have small over-bite by 3mm - 5 mm.

Diet modifies dental occlusion. So Caucasoids have modified their teeth, as unlike other races (Australoids) they aren't eating primitive food -which requires flat grinding surface (edge to edge bite as opposed to overbite).


 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Typical Caucasoid overbite:

 -

See how the maxillary teeth project by 3 - 5 mm.

This isn't prognathism. If you look you will see this Caucasoid woman is orthognathic.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
Trying reading some of the work of Pickering's when he travelled throughout the world and documented what he saw around the early 1800's. Ignoring some of his BSing what he saw is and eye opener to me. According him to some south African groups are orthognamous.
lol. Making crap up as usual. None of this is in Pickering's book on race.

The only author who wrote something along these lines was Seligman (1930). In one paragraph he reports something like a fraction of a single percent of Zulu chiefs are allegedly more orthognathic, through Nilo-Hamitic admixture.

This though has not been substantiated in any study though, and note Seligman claimed it was through admixture in not even a single percent of the Zulu.
 
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
 
AP,
You must be retarded: you keep citing this discredited early 19th century pseudo-anthropologist. Genuine science moves on all the time with better and more explanatory theories based on more sound empirical data.

At one time it was thought that malaria was caused by "bad air". So too for the phlogiston theory in chemistry and the ether theory in physics.

Grow a mature brain will ya.
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
@ Lamin. No! No!

They may be 19th Century psuedo-Anthropologist racist. But some of us get to emotional when we read their books.

Their books are useful.

Ignore their BS subjective oppinion and summation. As Mike pointed out. They "tell" us what these things mean. Even when it is obviously the opposite. eg per PI "note Seligman claimed it was through admixture in not even a single ". More BS.

Ignore that shyte and do the research.

If the Zulus( orthognathic) are admixed then the People of Lerna were also admixed with "Negro" (prognathism) per Zarahan's point.
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
The people of Lerna are overwhemly long headed and many are prognathic. The so-called "negro" features.

We can read and write now. Next up, we can think for ourselves.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
I thought that after going into a long thread explaining the stupidity and falsehood of the "Cold Adapted" nonsense, the whole "Tropical Adapted" verses "Cold Adapted" nonsense would be dead. But I still see some using it.

So I suppose the same will hold true for the "Black equates with Prognathism" stupidity. And just as the "Cold Adapted" nonsense flew in the face of normal everyday experience, and yet dumb niggers still clung to it. So too will they cling to the Prognathism stupidity. Though the average person would have a hard time finding a Prognathic Black person in their everyday life.

Yet these incredibly stupid people, will accept the notion that Blacks are identified by Prognathism! The logic of how a group can be exclusively identified by a feature that they rarely have, is of course only understandable to these "Brain Damaged" people.

And yes "Brain Damaged" is a good diagnosis, how else to explain the fact that once an Albino has placed that falsehood into a Negroes mind, the Negro is then unable to expel that falsehood and it's connections, even after copious proof of it's falsehood.

Wouldn't a healthy mind have vanquished that falsehood on first being shown the truth? Clearly for these Negroes, there is a mental imperative to hold on to Albino teachings at all costs. Healthy minds don't work like that.

So then, knowing full well that the truth is of little value to these people, I provide it anyway.

.

PROGNATHISM

 -


Genome Scan for Locus Involved in Mandibular Prognathism in Pedigrees from China.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2937026/

 -


Mandibular prognathism (MP) is a common clinical problem all over the world. However, its prevalence varies relative to populations: the highest incidence has been observed in Asian populations (approximately 15%) and the lowest in Caucasian populations (1%).

(A note here: If Mandibular prognathism is "RARE" in Albinos: THEN WHY ARE SO MANY SURGERIES DONE)?
 -


Maxillary Prognathism

Unlike Mandibular Prognathism, there are no racial statistics for Maxillary Prognathism. The reason is quite clear, we see Albinos who look like this EVERY DAY!


 -

In disease states, maxillary prognathism is associated with Cornelia de Lange Syndrome; however so-called false maxillary prognathism, where there is a lack of growth of the mandible, is by far a more common condition.

approx 1 in 10,000 or 0.01% or 27,200 people in USA [Source statistic for calcuation: "estimated 1 per 10,000 - 30,000 newborns suffer from Cornelia de Lange syndrome.

Features and characteristics

Following are the features and characteristics which help in spotting this disorder:

Low birth weight (usually under 5 pounds / 2.5 kilograms)
Delayed growth and small stature
Developmental delay
Limb differences (missing limbs or portions of limbs)
Small head size (microcephaly)
Thick eyebrows, which typically meet at midline (synophrys)
Long eyelashes
Short upturned nose and thin downturned lips
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^Intelligent people might wonder why Albinos went to the trouble to "Plant" this fictionous thought into the minds of susceptible Negroes.

The purpose is demonstrated in comments above:

If Prognathism means "Black" then skulls "WITHOUT" Prognathism MUST be Albino!

In the 80 Lerna skulls above, only two: 40 and 139 are Prognathic.

Thus by the logic "INPLANTED" into the Negro mind: the other 78 MUST be Albino!
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Caucasoids are orthognathic, Negroids are prognathic.

We don't take diseases into account when discussing racial affinities as they are not uniform or characteristic, but anomalies.

 -

The only reason of course Negroids deny they are prognathic - is because its not an attractive trait. The same way they have a denial crisis over their nappy hair.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
^Intelligent people might wonder why Albinos went to the trouble to "Plant" this fictionous thought into the minds of susceptible Negroes.

The purpose is demonstrated in comments above:

If Prognathism means "Black" then skulls "WITHOUT" Prognathism MUST be Albino!

In the 80 Lerna skulls above, only two: 40 and 139 are Prognathic.

Thus by the logic "INPLANTED" into the Negro mind: the other 78 MUST be Albino!

 -

^^^ Mike this is a specific type of prognathic you only showed the white Habsburg/Jay Leno type where just the bottom jaw juts out.

The black type is a bulge in the mouth area where both the top and bottom bulge, not just the lower jaw jutting out.

You started this thread saying look these Lerner and Greek athelete skull look ummistakably black.
-no reason given, no specifics,
you just threw that out there hoping no one would check
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Caucasoids are orthognathic, Negroids are prognathic.

We don't take diseases into account when discussing racial affinities as they are not uniform or characteristic, but anomalies.

 -

The only reason of course Negroids deny they are prognathic - is because its not an attractive trait. The same way they have a denial crisis over their nappy hair.

 -  -
^^^^^ is it possible that this man has no ancestry from outside of Africa?

yes or no?

I dare you to answer this.

.
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

lol looking at the protrusion of the mouth area including the incisors the skull is most certainly prognathous. that is not an overbite. and as it happens you can be orthognathous and have an overbite with the upper incisors vertically in front of the lower incisors.

restoration attempt.
 -

who are you trying to fool with your silly illustrations? this isnt our average look. what a racist joke you are.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
This has been answered numerous times.

30 - 35% of the Beja's genepool is not native to Africa, but Western Eurasian.

quote:
Originally posted by Perahu:
Global Cluster analysis by Tishkoff et al. 2009

Beja Hadandawa
Cushitic 49.2%
European 33.5%
Chadic 5.8%
Niger-Congo 4.0%
Nilo-Saharan 2.2%
Indian 2.1%
East Asian 0.8%

Sandawe 0.6%
Fulani 0.6%
W. Pygmy 0.4%
Hadza 0.3%
American 0.2%
Khoisan 0.1%
Oceania 0.1%

Beja Banuamir
Cushitic 51.4%
European 31.7%
Chadic 4.3%
Niger-Congo 4.5%
Nilo-Saharan 1.7%
Indian 3.0%
East Asian 1.0%

Sandawe 0.9%
Fulani 0.4%
W. Pygmy 0.3%
Hadza 0.3%
American 0.2%
Khoisan 0.2%
Oceania 0.1%

Y-Chromosome variation among Beja by Hassan et al. 2008

E1b1b1 53%
J1 36%
A3b2 5%
R1b 5%
J2 2%


Conclusion: The Beja are heavily West Eurasian admixed.

This is why the Afroloons are forced to then come up with desperate delusional theories to avoid this fact, such as Zaharans's ''backflow of the blacks''... There were though no Negroids in Eurasia in prehistory.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

lol looking at the protrusion of the mouth area including the incisors the skull is most certainly prognathous. that is not an overbite. and as it happens you can be orthognathous and have an overbite with the upper incisors vertically in front of the lower incisors.

restoration attempt.
 -

who are you trying to fool with your silly illustrations? this isnt our average look. what a racist joke you are.

That is what UNADMIXED (true) Negroids look like.

 -
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
Sahel (Siptah) - You do understand that Cass is not quite all there, don't you?
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

lol looking at the protrusion of the mouth area including the incisors the skull is most certainly prognathous. that is not an overbite. and as it happens you can be orthognathous and have an overbite with the upper incisors vertically in front of the lower incisors.

restoration attempt.
 -

who are you trying to fool with your silly illustrations? this isnt our average look. what a racist joke you are.

what are you talking about?

 -

^^^ trace the outline it fits perfectly into the skull illustration
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Caucasoids are orthognathic, Negroids are prognathic.

We don't take diseases into account when discussing racial affinities as they are not uniform or characteristic, but anomalies.

 -

The only reason of course Negroids deny they are prognathic - is because its not an attractive trait. The same way they have a denial crisis over their nappy hair.

 -  -
^^^^^ is it possible that this man has no ancestry from outside of Africa?

yes or no?

I dare you to answer this.

.

It's funny how Anglo_Pyramidologist always avoids any question like this, fail
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
lioness - no its doesnt. your diagrams are a joke. flesh / lips surrounding the mouth are not crania. the man clearly has considerably thick lips making it reach near the tip of the nose. nothing to do with cranio-metry. now on your silly diagrams there is too much crania protrusion of the mouth and the nose is too blunt and small. if we added this mans lips on your stupid diagrams the mouth will by far exceed the tip of the nose. i think you both get it. simply because you can find these elements among our variation doesnt make it our average.

 -

 -
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Siptah I provided the above illustration from the Smithsonian.

You posted a new version which you labed "correction".

Did you create this correction yourself in photoshop or some other program?
How did you do it. If you did it yourself you have very good technique. Did you?
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
lioness - yes. photoshop. and thank you.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Sahel (Siptah):
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

lol looking at the protrusion of the mouth area including the incisors the skull is most certainly prognathous. that is not an overbite. and as it happens you can be orthognathous and have an overbite with the upper incisors vertically in front of the lower incisors.

restoration attempt.
 -

who are you trying to fool with your silly illustrations? this isnt our average look. what a racist joke you are.

what are you talking about?

 -

^^^ trace the outline it fits perfectly into the skull illustration

my reconstruction,

 -


^^^ come on this is not a joke. it's quite reasonable for a Sub Saharan
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
 -

I assume you cut out the nasal cavity more white a white brush, correct? I sthat the onely thing you did around the nose area?
It looks like you added

More impressively you seem to have created a slight extra bulge around the teeth,the outer contour is rounder. How was that done? A distortion filter?
-also why was it done? It seems a little too curved for a tooth but the change is minimal, most change in the nasal area
 
Posted by Sahel (Siptah) (Member # 17601) on :
 
not bad. although going by the smithsonian diagram in comparison to yours the size of black man's nose doesnt fit because on the smithsonian diagram the nose is too small and blunt making the prognathism exceedingly large. try to make the nose fit with the smooth and depressed nasal spine and border on the smithsonian diagram.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
The Negroid posted above clearly has prognathism in the subnasal and alveolar region. Its not that he just has ''thick lips'', lip eversion does not project the aveolar ridges, the alveolar process is bone, not tissue.

Camper's Facial Angle -

 -

quote:
[...]angle is formed by drawing two lines - one horizontally from the nostril to the ear, the other perpendicular from the advancing part of the upper jawbone to the most prominent part of the forehead. He claimed antique Greco-Roman statues had angles near to 100 degrees, Modern (Caucasoid) Europeans of 90, Oriental (Mongoloids) of 80, Africans (Negroids) of 70, and Orangutans of 58 degrees. He claimed that of all human races, Negroids were most removed from the Classical sense of beauty.
Camper's facial angle method is still used today, just in variated form - Gnathic and Facial Indexes.

Those that also claim this is ''scientific racism'' are wrong. Prognathism as far as modern beauty research has concluded, is considered to be ugly.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/ethnic-comparisons/facial-flatness

 -

Top: Negroids
Bottom: Caucasoids

Note difference in facial angle.

Who can deny this is related to aesthetics? Prognathism is very ugly. Anyone who denies this knows they are lieing. Compare the above faces.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
The Negroid posted above clearly has prognathism in the subnasal and alveolar region. Its not that he just has ''thick lips'', lip eversion does not project the aveolar ridges, the alveolar process is bone, not tissue.

Camper's Facial Angle -

 -

quote:
[...]angle is formed by drawing two lines - one horizontally from the nostril to the ear, the other perpendicular from the advancing part of the upper jawbone to the most prominent part of the forehead. He claimed antique Greco-Roman statues had angles near to 100 degrees, Modern (Caucasoid) Europeans of 90, Oriental (Mongoloids) of 80, Africans (Negroids) of 70, and Orangutans of 58 degrees. He claimed that of all human races, Negroids were most removed from the Classical sense of beauty.
Camper's facial angle method is still used today, just in variated form - Gnathic and Facial Indexes.

Those that also claim this is ''scientific racism'' are wrong. Prognathism as far as modern beauty research has concluded, is considered to be ugly.


quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
[qb] Caucasoids are orthognathic, Negroids are prognathic.

We don't take diseases into account when discussing racial affinities as they are not uniform or characteristic, but anomalies.

 -

The only reason of course Negroids deny they are prognathic - is because its not an attractive trait. The same way they have a denial crisis over their nappy hair.

 -  -
^^^^^ is it possible that this man has no ancestry from outside of Africa?

yes or no?

I dare you to answer this.

.


 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^I'm trying to figure out why this silly conversation is still going on. Apparently the fact that Cass is unwell, and as he has demonstrated every time he opens his mouth - a pathological liar, with Lioness close behind.

I mean, if a fool says day is night, no one argues it with him, they simply laugh it off and move on.

Which leads me to believe that the reason you all are still arguing Cass's nonsense, is because none of you really know what Africans look like.

Here educate yourselves!

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_3.htm


http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_4.htm


http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_5.htm


http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_6.htm


http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_7.htm


http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_8.htm
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Eurafricans Of Lerna

According Sergi. The Eurafricans originated from the Sudan area.

 -

... one can get an impression of some kind African colonization of the European continent which must have happened somewhere in the past?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Eurafrican

Noun 1. Eurafrican - a person of mixed European and African descent
African - a native or inhabitant of Africa
European - a native or inhabitant of Europe
Adj. 1. Eurafrican - relating to or coming from Europe and Africa

quote:

 -


 -


 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote; In the 80 Lerna skulls above, only two: 40 and 139 are Prognathic.

On the contrary only 59 MAY NOT be Prognathic.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:

I mean, if a fool says day is night, no one argues it with him, they simply laugh it off and move on.



 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
As I said white people can be clever by being distracting. The thread got derailed the clowns are arguing about who and what is prognathic.


Get back on topic. People of Lerna.

Quote: On the contrary only 59 MAY NOT be proganthic.


Oppinions/views on the skulls .. . on the book.

Any more citations, Mike?
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote; In the 80 Lerna skulls above, only two: 40 and 139 are Prognathic.

On the contrary only 59 MAY NOT be Prognathic.

quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:

I mean, if a fool says day is night, no one argues it with him, they simply laugh it off and move on.



right, xyman stop BSing

____________________PROGNATHIC________________________
 -


.

.

 -  -  -  -  -
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
The Lerna skulls are all Caucasoid.

For quick visual comparison -

 -

A - Caucasoid
B - Negroid
C - Mongoloid

I've gone over the differences in metric variables and indexes countless times.

My thread is here:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=005499
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
 -
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Actually, THIS is the reconstruction of Akhenaten that specialists came up with!

 -

I don't know what the hell you guys are going back and forth about. The topic of this thread is about the skulls of Lerna NOT prognathism. Prognathism is just 1 of multiple cranial traits.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot:

Prognathism is easily detectable with a pencil - from the base of your nasal aperature hold the pencil downwards towards your chin.

If the pencil touches your chin - you are orthognathic and Caucasoid.

Prognathism is not overbite. Mike, Ironlion and now Djehuti are making this same mistake.

People with overbite, can PASS the pencil test.

Dental malocclusion is not the same as prognathism. As i already explained:

Dental over-bite is not aveolar prognathism. The latter is the projection of the aveolar sockets and ridges, not tooth malocclusion. The vast majority of Caucasoids have small over-bite by 3mm - 5 mm.

Diet modifies dental occlusion. So Caucasoids have modified their teeth, as unlike other races (Australoids) they aren't eating primitive food -which requires flat grinding surface (edge to edge bite as opposed to overbite).

LOL typical Anglo-idiot lies. Prognathism is any projection of the face and jaws or any part there of. As such prognathism comes in multiple forms NOT just full facial prognathism! There is also maxillary prognathism as well as alveolar prognathism where the dental lining of the teeth protrude. The latter can often be mistaken for simple overbite, but I just cited a source on this!

From P.K. Manansala

Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, "Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans.

Studies have shown that persons of African descent tend to have greater projection of the alveolar region as compared to the lower mouth. The difference in projection measured as ANB (A point-nasion-B point) and research on persons of African descent has shown ranges from 5.5 to 4.3. In comparison with Caucasians, the values were from about 1.5 to 2 times greater
(see Alexander et al., 1978; Downs,1948; Fonseca et al.,1978; Steiner, 1959).


The Anglo-Idiot's response in regards to prognathism is just like his response about another African trait-- steatopygea. According to the dummy, only the extreme form of steatopygea as found among Khoisan counts as steatopygea where the buttocks has to be a hump that makes some 90 degree angle with the backor some other b.s. In the meantime, most African steatopygia is simply large buttocks which is common among black women and does not need to meet his idiotic requirements. Such was the same with ancient Egyptians which he claims was not 'negroid' but Khoisan. In the meantime, when you show him the skull of Nubian Wadi-Halfa with full facial prognathism, he discounts it as Khoisan, even though he says Khoisan have greater facial flatness! LOL [Big Grin]

In other words, the Anglo-buffoon is a flip-flop liar. I could just as count depigmentation as a Caucasoid trait where only the most depigmented i.e. whitest people of norhern Europe count as truly Caucasoid. But of course, in the mind of Anglo-Idiot Caucasoids pigmentation can vary from pallor to chocolate brown! LMAO [Big Grin]
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:


I don't know what the hell you guys are going back and forth about. [/QB]

basically they prefer to be Greek instead of African
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ It's not a matter of preference but what IS. That's the problem with pseudo-scholarly ethnocentrics! It's all about what they 'prefer'. FACT is the Lerna skulls do display Afrian features. FACT is Greeks carry African genetic influences which date back to Neolithic times i.e. Lerna. Preference is irrelevant. [Embarrassed]
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
FACT is the Lerna skulls do display Afrian features.

what # skull on page one do you feel has African features?

( flunkies fall back, let Djehuti answer first)

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

Greeks carry African genetic influences

1) why? how did it happen?

2) of the European traits that Greeks have did they acquire these traits in Greece or from ancestors who lived North or North East of Greece?
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Don't play dumb Lyinass. You know damn well as long as you've been in this forum that you've been exposed to evidence of African migration into Greece since the neolithic. The skeletal evidence including "negroid" skulls of Lerna is just one part of it. There is also hg E1b1b and Benin HBS all dating from the same period.

E1b1b
 -

Benin HBS
 -

They all entered Greece from the south. Anglo-Idiot knows this but chooses to label these African immigrants as "Caucasoids" instead. LOL What will YOU choose? [Big Grin]
 
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
 
Hence A-P's embrace of the bogus "multi-regional" hypothesis. The OOA hypothesis on the contrary explains the Lerna skulls.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ How so? I mean, not that I in any way disagree with the FACT of common OOA origins for humankind, but what the Lerna skulls show is that Greece was affected by recent African immigration that took place during the Neolithic period. It's been known for a long while in academia that Greeks displayed 'spontaneous' variation and heterogeneity during the Neolithic as shown in the skeletal remains. These variations included African features. Even many of the old scholars speculated an African presence or influence in the population. Of course the radical racists like Coon simply dismissed these traits as all being "Caucasoid". That all changed with molecular genetic findings such as Sub-Saharan affinities in HLA per Villenaz et. al, Benin HBS (sickle cell) and of course Y-chromosome E1b1b. OOA has nothing to do with it. These were African immigrants who came in and mixed with the indigenous Greek population during the exact time that Neolithic culture i.e. agriculture and animal domestication was introduced to Europe mainly in Greece.

Speaking of A-P and 'admixture'...
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot:

This has been answered numerous times.

30 - 35% of the Beja's genepool is not native to Africa, but Western Eurasian.

quote:
Originally posted by Perahu:
Global Cluster analysis by Tishkoff et al. 2009

Beja Hadandawa
Cushitic 49.2%
European 33.5%
Chadic 5.8%
Niger-Congo 4.0%
Nilo-Saharan 2.2%
Indian 2.1%
East Asian 0.8%

Sandawe 0.6%
Fulani 0.6%
W. Pygmy 0.4%
Hadza 0.3%
American 0.2%
Khoisan 0.1%
Oceania 0.1%

Beja Banuamir
Cushitic 51.4%
European 31.7%
Chadic 4.3%
Niger-Congo 4.5%
Nilo-Saharan 1.7%
Indian 3.0%
East Asian 1.0%

Sandawe 0.9%
Fulani 0.4%
W. Pygmy 0.3%
Hadza 0.3%
American 0.2%
Khoisan 0.2%
Oceania 0.1%

Y-Chromosome variation among Beja by Hassan et al. 2008

E1b1b1 53%
J1 36%
A3b2 5%
R1b 5%
J2 2%


Conclusion: The Beja are heavily West Eurasian admixed.

This is why the Afroloons are forced to then come up with desperate delusional theories to avoid this fact, such as Zaharans's ''backflow of the blacks''... There were though no Negroids in Eurasia in prehistory.
LOL Why am I not surprised the Anglo-Idiot would cite his friend 'Perahu'---the same guy who claims the Bantu Tutsi and Nilotic Hemba and Maasai peoples also have Eurasian admixture!! Like we told Paironuts before about the Tishkoff study on the Beja: First even IF the study is accurate that the Beja have 30 - 35% Eurasian ancestry, that would mean that they still are predominantly Africa 70 - 65%. Secondly, the study only shows two clans of the Beja who are comprised of 7 clans, and there's no denying that some of these clans did intermarry with Arab Bedouins, particularly the two clans cited who cohabit the eastern deserts with Bedouins. Lastly, it's questionable whether the autosomal DNA affinities really are 'Eurasian' as the DNA of indigenous populations of North Africa and the Sahara are poorly understood. As an example even the Dogon people of Mali are shown to have high frequencies of 'Eurasian' affinities despite their overall "negroid" appearance.

'Paironuts' is as much a Euro-lunatic as Anglo-Idiot. He calls himself 'Perahu' which is the name of the King of Punt which the men of female pharaoh Hatshepsut did trade with. Judging by his appearance on Hatshepsut's tomb, Perahu is a black African man just like his Puntite subjects yet the troll 'Paironuts' claims him as "Eurasian" just like the Beja, Hemba, Masai, and Tutsi! LOL This brings us back to Anglo-Idiot who does the same thing. Note how he cites his friend Paironut's post on Beja being "mixed". This is no doubt a defense mechanism due to the fact that this very thread exposes that it is his own European people who are mixed, particularly his precious Greeks! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Interesting. So, contrary to what Hanihara's facial flatness study suggests, Ancient Egyptians do not at all fall within the range of modern Europeans in all forms of prognathism. Suspected this a long time, good to know my radar was on point!

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuty:
Studies have shown that persons of African descent tend to have greater projection of the alveolar region as compared to the lower mouth. The difference in projection measured as ANB (A point-nasion-B point) and research on persons of African descent has shown ranges from 5.5 to 4.3. In comparison with Caucasians, the values were from about 1.5 to 2 times greater (see Alexander et al., 1978; Downs,1948; Fonseca et al.,1978; Steiner, 1959).

When discussing the pharaonic ANB means:

quote:
The values here are almost all very high. The mean is 5.9428, which exceeds the means obtained for persons of African descent in previous studies and far exceeds the means obtained for Caucasians.
Will need to look at Hanihara's study again to figure out what exactly is causing the discrepancy.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Don't play dumb Lyinass. You know damn well as long as you've been in this forum that you've been exposed to evidence of African migration into Greece since the neolithic. The skeletal evidence including "negroid" skulls of Lerna is just one part of it. There is also hg E1b1b and Benin HBS all dating from the same period.

E1b1b
 -

Benin HBS
 -

They all entered Greece from the south. Anglo-Idiot knows this but chooses to label these African immigrants as "Caucasoids" instead. LOL What will YOU choose? [Big Grin]

Modern Greeks are Caucasoid. There is nothing Negroid ('Black') about their physiognomy.

If E1b1b is a Negroid marker, then the Greeks who are 30% E1b1b should have afros and Negroid facial features. They don't though.

Greeks are 100% Caucasoid like their ancient ancestors (predominantly Mediterranid with Dinaric and Alpine tendencies)

 -

e1b1b is a Caucasoid marker. Hence the Greeks like this man above who are 30% e1b1b don't look remotely Negroid.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
^ It really is stupid to claim Greek are somehow heavily Negroid admixed when they show no Negroid phenotypic admixture.

Furthermore the earliest Greek literature c. 8th - 6th century BC distinguished the Greeks to Sub-Saharan African (Negroid) populations.

Xenophanes in the 6th century BC, notes that the Thracians (neighbours to the Greeks) were pale skinned and red haired, while he describes the Sub-Saharan African (Negroid) populations as ''flat [σιμούς] nosed and black''.

Those Thracians by geography (southeast europe) were around 30% e1b1b, yet they are described as pale white skinned and red haired.

What Negroids have milky white skin and red hair?

Your whole argument is nonsensical. The carriers of e1b1b were Caucasoids ('whites').
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Predictable lies. We are talking about Neolithic Greeks NOT 'Classical' Greeks or even modern-day Greeks, dummy. You call E1b1b "Caucasoid" despite the fact that it originated in AFRICA and its sibling is E1b1a which is predominant in West Africa which is why you call it "negroid". That and the fact that E1b1b M-78 ancestral to the form carried by Greeks is said to originate in the Egyptian-Sudanese border among the people of Wadi-Halfa which is obviously "Negroid" according to Vermeesch et. al. whom you love to cite but YOU call non-negroid or 'Capoid'. Any lie you say Anglo-Sh*t brains. [Big Grin]

By the way, I thought I told your dumbass that how someone looks may NOT reflect their actual ancestry. A blonde haired, blue eyed, milky skinned white man could still have a black ancestor just several generations ago let alone going back thousands of years, remember? [Embarrassed]

quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:

Interesting. So, contrary to what Hanihara's facial flatness study suggests, Ancient Egyptians do not at all fall within the range of modern Europeans in all forms of prognathism. Suspected this a long time, good to know my radar was on point!...

Yet they do fall in the same range as early Bronze Age and especially Neolithic Europeans of the Mediterranean as shown by Brace. We all know why. LOL
 
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
 
"Negroid", "Caucasoid", "Mongoloid"[which you might be though] are nonsensical 18th and 19th century terms concocted during the days of crude proto-anthropology with no real scientific content. E1b1b arose deep East Southern Africa in Tanzania and share that lineage with Greeks to the tune of 27%. This a minority, but a substantial one. It says nothing about their phenotype which varies over a wide range.

Large numbers of Cameroonians belong to the haplogroup R which is found predominantly in Europe. The Cameroonians are phenotypically dissimilar from their R homologues in Europe though. But the link is still there.
 
Posted by sero (Member # 19290) on :
 
North Americas=Mulatto=self denying ;-)

Michelle Obama's ancestors traced to Ulster slave owner
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/michelle-obamas-ancestors-traced-to-ulster-slave-owner-16173749.html
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ I don't know what is meant by that. Practically all African Americans I know acknowledge mixed ancestry within the black community which stems largely from slavery. That's never been an issue. The issue is the mixed ancestry among whites both since slavery to well before that such as the case of Neolithic Greeks!

Even if Michelle Obama has ancestry from Ireland, she obviously doesn't look Irish! Thus the same principles of biology are at work-- many Greeks and other Euros may not look black or African but that doesn't mean their ancestors weren't.
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
"Negroid", "Caucasoid", "Mongoloid"[which you might be though] are nonsensical 18th and 19th century terms concocted during the days of crude proto-anthropology with no real scientific content.
Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid are still recognised as valid subspecies or major racial taxa within forensic anthropology. Modern genetic clusters also confirms them. In modern medicine they are also recognised.

The claim these are 'outdated' is false.

Also don't play dumb. If you take a person from East Asia, West Africa and Europe - it doesn't take a trained anthropologist to recognise the differences and form three racial clusters.
 
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Don't play dumb Lyinass. You know damn well as long as you've been in this forum that you've been exposed to evidence of African migration into Greece since the neolithic. The skeletal evidence including "negroid" skulls of Lerna is just one part of it. There is also hg E1b1b and Benin HBS all dating from the same period.

E1b1b
 -

Benin HBS
 -

They all entered Greece from the south. Anglo-Idiot knows this but chooses to label these African immigrants as "Caucasoids" instead. LOL What will YOU choose? [Big Grin]

Modern Greeks are Caucasoid. There is nothing Negroid ('Black') about their physiognomy.

If E1b1b is a Negroid marker, then the Greeks who are 30% E1b1b should have afros and Negroid facial features. They don't though.

Blah...blah...blah...
 -

e1b1b is a Caucasoid marker. Hence the Greeks like this man above who are 30% e1b1b don't look remotely Negroid.

The emphasis is on ancient Greeks. They had genes arising from inner Africa, they spoke an African-based language with 50% of their words being loan-words from Egypt. Their skeletal remains, their artwork, their religion, all point to Africa, not Caucasus cagots.

Between the 16th and the 19th century, Turks displaced the population of Greece and settled in as the majority ruling tribe.

Then in the 19th and 20th century following epic wars and the demise of Turkish Empire, Britain settled in millions of Serbians and Slavics in Greece.

So keep it real. We know that many modern Greeks are albinos like you.

But the ancient Greeks had no relationship with your pink cagotic ass. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
I don't know about anyone else, but I've had just about enough of Anglo_Pyramidologist outright lies. It is one thing to "Bend" the truth, but this obviously unwell Albino has taken to lying without any regard for the truth at all.

This kind of behavior changes ES from a debate forum, to a "who can tell the most bare-faced lie" forum. Much knowledge is gained when we are forced to investigate anothers claims. In the case of Anglo_Pyramidologist, all we find is a stupid lie by an obvious retard. That serves none of us.

I think that it's time for us to demand that Anglo_Pyramidologist be sent packing. Let him go on Stormfront and spew his lies there.
 
Posted by Narmerthoth (Member # 20259) on :
 
^ There are many Negro Africans on the site who believe every word (lie).

We can use this as a means to shine the light on them since in the long run Albino flakes like Anglo are irrelevant and as harmless as a gnat.
These Negro Africans though..they are dangerous.
 
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
 
Another Mike111/Narmethoth one-two.

Why are Mike111 and Narmerthoth never in the same room together?
 
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
 
@djehuti

"^ Predictable lies. We are talking about Neolithic Greeks NOT 'Classical' Greeks or even modern-day Greeks, dummy. You call E1b1b "Caucasoid" despite the fact that it originated in AFRICA and its sibling is E1b1a which is predominant in West Africa which is why you call it "negroid". That and the fact that E1b1b M-78 ancestral to the form carried by Greeks is said to originate in the Egyptian-Sudanese border among the people of Wadi-Halfa which is obviously "Negroid" according to Vermeesch et. al. whom you love to cite but YOU call non-negroid or 'Capoid'. Any lie you say Anglo-Sh*t brains"

I see that Anglo hasn't come back at you in this. Very interesting. Where can I read up on this?
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

The skeletal evidence including "negroid" skulls of Lerna is just one part of it.

what is your source that says skulls of Lerna were "negroid"
and how many of the Lerna skulls are described as "negroid" ?


.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by claus3600:
Another Mike111/Narmethoth one-two.

Why are Mike111 and Narmerthoth never in the same room together?

^Ya, that's spooky isn't it.

But be careful though, I think I see smoke coming from your brain. Over-use will do that to Negroes you know.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by claus3600:

@djehuti

"^ Predictable lies. We are talking about Neolithic Greeks NOT 'Classical' Greeks or even modern-day Greeks, dummy. You call E1b1b "Caucasoid" despite the fact that it originated in AFRICA and its sibling is E1b1a which is predominant in West Africa which is why you call it "negroid". That and the fact that E1b1b M-78 ancestral to the form carried by Greeks is said to originate in the Egyptian-Sudanese border among the people of Wadi-Halfa which is obviously "Negroid" according to Vermeesch et. al. whom you love to cite but YOU call non-negroid or 'Capoid'. Any lie you say Anglo-Sh*t brains"

I see that Anglo hasn't come back at you in this. Very interesting. Where can I read up on this?

Try searching past threads of this forum:

Negroid affinities in ancient Greece???

Classic Greece and its population's origins

The Negro in Ancient Greece

These are just a FEW of the many threads on the issue.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

The skeletal evidence including "negroid" skulls of Lerna is just one part of it.

what is your source that says skulls of Lerna were "negroid"
and how many of the Lerna skulls are described as "negroid" ?
.

I just provided on on the previous page, dummy!
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

The skeletal evidence including "negroid" skulls of Lerna is just one part of it.

what is your source that says skulls of Lerna were "negroid"
and how many of the Lerna skulls are described as "negroid" ?
.

I just provided on on the previous page, dummy!
asshole, on the previous page you did not link a page and book that describe the Lerna skulls as "negroid"
 
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
 
@mike

"But be careful though, I think I see smoke coming from your brain. Over-use will do that to Negroes you know."

How is it going with the research on those Australian hieroglyphs?

Fvking idiot...
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL Speaking of idiots...
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass:

asshole, on the previous page you did not link a page and book that describe the Lerna skulls as "negroid"

Excuse me, trick, I meant the 1st page of this thread which if I recall you posted on!

the remains of Lerna which were discussed before in several other threads.


"The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' (not full negro)traits in the face." lo The skull is fairly complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania. Despite the presence of these traits, we must recall that we are quite ignorant of
the range of variation in cranial morphology among the Late Roman Corinthians. Consequently, attempts to identify the race of a single skull (one of only three preserved from the Lerna Hollow collection) are on unsure grounds. The features of this skull may, after all, be within the range of variation for the (presumably)
Caucasoid population of Corinth at this time.
''

The Skeletons of Lerna Hollow
Al B. Wesolowsky
Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Of relevance to this topic...

The Questionable Contribution of Neolithic to Bronze age European Craniofacial Form.
Brace et. al. 2005

"The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to sub-Saharan Africa....

..The assessment of prehistoric and recent human craniofacial dimensions supports the picture documented by genetics that the extension of Neolithic agriculture from the Near East westward to Europe and across North Africa was accomplished by a process of demic diffusion (11–15). If the Late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, then there was clearly a SubSaharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element. At the same time, the failure of the Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in central and northern Europe to tie to the modern inhabitants supports the suggestion that, while a farming mode of subsistence was spread westward and also north to Crimea and east to Mongolia by actual movement of communities of farmers, the indigenous foragers in each of those areas ultimately absorbed both the agricultural subsistence strategy and also the people who had brought it. The interbreeding of the incoming Neolithic people with the in situ foragers diluted the Sub-Saharan traces that may have come with the Neolithic spread so that no discoverable element of that remained. This picture of a mixture between the incoming farmers and the in situ foragers had originally been supported by the archaeological record alone (6, 9, 33, 34, 48, 49), but this view is now reinforced by the analysis of the skeletal morphology of the people of those areas where prehistoric and recent remains can be metrically compared.
"
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Bringing the discussion back on track.

Angel et al concluded that the Basic White (which is a false identification-intended to mislead and steal Black history) is the same type of people that occupied regions in Nubia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, all North Africa, Greece, parts of Persia and the Megaliths of Britain during early the Neolithic to the early Bronze age. They came from Africa. More specifically Sudan, East Africa.

In other words black Africans occupied and dominated these lands from tropical Nubia and Sudan, warm weather part of Europe and the Megaliths of Britain. YES, Nubian type skulls were found in graves near the Megaliths of Britain. See Angel et al and Sergi et al

Don’t take my word for it. See what he says.


 -


quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

 -

... one can get an impression of some kind African colonization of the European continent which must have happened somewhere in the past?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Eurafrican


quote:

 -


 -



 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
This is a classic demonstration of demic diffusion.


The proof if overwhelming – ancient Greeks were either pure blacks or at minimum admixed. Here is why.



1. PN2 African genetic presence

2. Skeleton remains craniometrics – Group A skeletons

3. Prevalence of sickle cell anemia as evidence in the ancient skeletons Angel et al

4. Known presence of “African” sickle cell anemia in modern Greeks

5. Cultural presence of African influence in early ancient Greece.

6. The recently disclosed genetic evidence that ancient remains are NOT the ancestors of most modern Europeans

7. The proximity of Greece to Africa

8. The fundamental difference between the language of early Greeks and bronze age Greeks/modern Greeks

9. Etc



Only a fool or outright delusional liar can conclude anything different

 -
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
Angel et al concluded that the Basic White (which is a false identification-intended to mislead and steal Black history) is the same type of people that occupied regions in Nubia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, all North Africa, Greece, parts of Persia and the Megaliths of Britain during early the Neolithic to the early Bronze age.
The Basic White type is Caucasoid. You fail once again.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
Bringing the discussion back on track.

Angel et al concluded that the Basic White (which is a false identification-intended to mislead
and steal Black history) is
the same type of people that occupied regions in Nubia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan,
all North Africa, Greece, parts of Persia and the Megaliths of Britain during early the Neolithic
to the early Bronze age.
They came from Africa. More specifically Sudan, East Africa.

In other words black Africans occupied and dominated these lands from tropical Nubia and Sudan, warm weather part of Europe and the Megaliths of Britain. YES, Nubian type skulls were found in graves near the Megaliths of Britain. See Angel et al and Sergi et al

Don’t take my word for it. See what he says.


 -



^^^^ For some reason you have
reproduced
Table 1: Descriptive Morphology of
Skull Types
but you have a
white piece of paper covering up
the last Type, TYPE F
aka Dinaric-Mediterranean
why?

And it is type F,
the Mecedonian Neolithic 6300-5500 BC
that Angel says has traits from
"perhaps negroid development of the incisor region", the one and only time the word negroid or negro
is mentioned in the book. The word negroid
or African does not even appear in a caption under one of the skull photos just "Dinaric"

Why did you cover up type F?

Here is the full chart:
 -

___^^^^TYPE F

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:


"The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' (not full negro)traits in the face." lo The skull is fairly complete, but not enough
so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits
may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania.
Despite the presence of these traits, we must recall that we are quite ignorant of
the range of variation in
cranial morphology among the Late Roman Corinthians. Consequently, attempts to identify
the race of a single skull (one of only three preserved from the Lerna Hollow collection)
are on unsure grounds. The features of this skull may, after all, be within the range of variation for the (presumably)
Caucasoid population of Corinth at this time.
''

The Skeletons of Lerna Hollow
Al B. Wesolowsky
Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.

PEOPLE OF LERNA -readable googlebooks link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=B10QrRCmtZsC&lpg=PA33&ots=MAylH

Lawrence Angel, People of Lerna, the only mention of the word "negroid" or "negro" in the book:
 -
 -
 -
.
.
 -
 -


wikipedia on "Dinaric" :

The Dinaric race (or Adriatic race or Epirotic race) is one of the sub-categories of the Europid Caucasian race into which it was divided by physical anthropologists in the early 20th century, describing the perceived predominant phenotype of the contemporary ethnic groups of South-Eastern Europe.
The type has been described as follows:
The vertical height of the cranium is high. Eyes are set relatively close and the surrounding tissue defines them as wide open. The iris is most often brown, with a significant percentage of light pigmentation in the Dinaric population. The nose is large, narrow and convex. The face is long and orthognathic, with a prominent chin, and also wide. The form of the forehead is variable, but not rarely it is bulbous. The hair color is usually dark brown, with black-haired and blond individuals in minority, blondness being the characteristic of the more Central European, morphologically similar Noric race (a race intermediate between Nordic and Dinaric races). The skin is lacking the rosy color characteristic for Northern Europe as well as the relatively brunet pigmentation characteristic for the southernmost Europe and on a geographical plane it is of medium pigmentation and often it is variable.According to the Dinaric model, Dinarics were to be found in the mountainous areas of the western Balkans: Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, Slovenia, Austria, part of northwestern Bulgaria, and northwestern Republic of Macedonia).
Northern and Eastern Italy was considered mostly a Dinaric area as well as western Greece, Romania, western Ukraine, southeastern German-speaking areas, and parts of southern Poland and southeastern France.Both Günther and Coon claimed that the Bell-Beaker people of the European Bronze Age were at least partially Dinaric.
Coon also argued, however, in The Origin of Races (1962), that the Dinaric and some other categories "are not races but simply the visible expressions of the genetic variability of the intermarrying groups to which they belong."
He referred to the creation of this distinctive phenotype from the mixing of earlier separate groups as "dinaricisation". In his view Dinarics were a specific type that arose from ancient mixes of the Mediterranean race and Alpine race.


_____________________________________________
 -
Dinaric-Mediterranean
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL Okay, so you point out just ONE of the skulls shown as typical of modern Europeans. Good for you. Meanwhile...
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

This is a classic demonstration of demic diffusion.

The proof if overwhelming – ancient Greeks were either pure blacks or at minimum admixed. Here is why.



1. PN2 African genetic presence

2. Skeleton remains craniometrics – Group A skeletons

3. Prevalence of sickle cell anemia as evidence in the ancient skeletons Angel et al

4. Known presence of “African” sickle cell anemia in modern Greeks

5. Cultural presence of African influence in early ancient Greece.

6. The recently disclosed genetic evidence that ancient remains are NOT the ancestors of most modern Europeans

7. The proximity of Greece to Africa

8. The fundamental difference between the language of early Greeks and bronze age Greeks/modern Greeks

9. Etc


Only a fool or outright delusional liar can conclude anything different

 -

Don't forget Villena finding that Greeks possess HLA genes similar to Sub-Saharans.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

Angel et al concluded that the Basic White (which is a false identification-intended to mislead and steal Black history) is the same type of people that occupied regions in Nubia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, all North Africa, Greece, parts of Persia and the Megaliths of Britain during early the Neolithic to the early Bronze age. They came from Africa. More specifically Sudan, East Africa.

In other words black Africans occupied and dominated these lands from tropical Nubia and Sudan, warm weather part of Europe and the Megaliths of Britain. YES, Nubian type skulls were found in graves near the Megaliths of Britain. See Angel et al and Sergi et al

Don’t take my word for it. See what he says.


 -


Actually you are half right. "Basic white" is a false construct based on the same vague typology as "Mediterranean". I have read the term in many old anthropological documents and have heard it used by Euronuts here and there for years but I never got a grasp of what it really meant until Dana explained it to me quite recently. "Basic White" is a description for early Europeans who still possess archaic traits of their early ancestors, hence why Euronuts such as Dienekes sometimes use the synonym "archaic whites" or "primitive whites". The problem is many of the same features of these 'archaic whites' can also be seen in other early populations including those in North Africa! I myself was surprised to learn that it was Angel himself who coined the term 'basic whites', especially since he was the mentor of Keita and thought him to be more 'progressive' in his anthropological approach but of course Angel is still a man (white man) of his time so he obviously had his flaws.

Despite Angel's mistake in his label of 'basic white', it would equally be a mistake to reverse his methodology and thus refer to any and all skulls with such features as 'African'! That includes the skulls of early Britain and western Europe as well as Persia and even as far east as Mongolia!! It is this part of your claim that is wrong, xyyman! Therefore, reversing the label into somehow being a 'basic black' is also wrong. The fact of the matter is that all these disparate populations happen to share similar archaic affinities or really robust qualities of the face and skull, that does NOT mean all these populations are closely related and therefore NON of these populations who share such features represent a specific 'type' at all!

But speaking of cranio-facial features, I will have more on the Lerna skulls tomorrow.
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
[QB] ^ LOL Okay, so you point out just ONE of the skulls shown as typical of modern Europeans. Good for you.

No read the quote you are talking about:

quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a "number of 'negroid' (not full negro)traits in the face." lo The skull is fairly complete, but not enough
so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits
may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania.
Despite the presence of these traits, we must recall that we are quite ignorant of
the range of variation in
cranial morphology among the Late Roman Corinthians. Consequently, attempts to identify
the race of a single skull (one of only three preserved from the Lerna Hollow collection)
are on unsure grounds. The features of this skull may, after all, be within the range of variation for the (presumably)
Caucasoid population of Corinth at this time.''

Wesolowsky

Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.

^^^ Wesolowsky is talking about ONE of the skulls, a female mentioned by Angel, of semi-negroid traits

Now go to Angel, People of Lerna:

http://books.google.com/books?id=B10QrRCmtZsC&lpg=PA33&ots=MAylH

type in the search "negroid" or "negro" or "African"

Try to identify this woman. Angel says Dinaric Medditerrananeans may have some Negoid features, they are Type F
I found the F type female aka Macedonain neolithic in people of Lerna

Try it yourself, go to the skulls showing in the book link and read every caption try to find what number skull might be being talked about

Now pay attention to your quote below:

_____________________________________________

Wesolowsky: Skeletons of Lerna Hollow, p 344

The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as

"a number of 'negroid' (not full negro)traits in the face. 10"


____________________________


^^^^ but this footnote 10 is not from People of Lerna it's from James Wiseman talking about what Angel supposedly said. I don't have this source:

 -

look ^^^ footnote 10

 -

see 10 and 12
 
Posted by KoKaKoLa (Member # 19312) on :
 

 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Man!! God damn! Even the best sometimes get fooled! I have to hand it to you white people you are good at trickery. I fell for the play on words. Even a person in my profession. I should be ashamed myself.

You use the word Caucasoids and I hear or read European and go into a tizzy.

Ok!! I agree with you! Let’s call them Caucasoids. Now, as a supposedly well read person. WHERE DID THEY ORIGINATE???? The EurAfricans? Most scholars agree that the same people circum-navigated-occupied the Mediterranean.

That is really the issue. You have to agree that these “Caucasoids” originated in the Sudan area of. . . . . . help me out.

Clearly the genetic and morphological evidence show the same type of people (the base) occupied both sides of the Mediterranean sea.

And for the newbies. This map clearly shows the point of entry into Europe from Africa. Note: All the European Peninsulars(point of entry) have a high frequency of African PN2 (E1b1b).

For those who cannot connect the dots. . .

That is why ancient Iberians (and people of the Megaliths), Estruscans(Pre-Romans?), Minoans/People of Lerna(pre-Greeks), ancient Persians, ancient Phoenicians are ALL DISSIMILAR to modern populations in that region. Most morphological and genetic studies confirm that. Modern Europeans do not have the same Language, genes, morphology, and culture to these ancient populations because they are NOT them. Delusional Albino . . . .eh. . . White MFers!!! LOL!


So!.....PI and Lioness. Showing one handpicked photo and using the word Caucasoid is not proof. Bring me hard scientific evidence then we can talk man-o-man-o otherwise get the **** outta my face.


quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ LOL Okay, so you point out just ONE of the skulls shown as typical of modern Europeans. Good for you. Meanwhile...
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

This is a classic demonstration of demic diffusion.

The proof if overwhelming – ancient Greeks were either pure blacks or at minimum admixed. Here is why.



1. PN2 African genetic presence

2. Skeleton remains craniometrics – Group A skeletons

3. Prevalence of sickle cell anemia as evidence in the ancient skeletons Angel et al

4. Known presence of “African” sickle cell anemia in modern Greeks

5. Cultural presence of African influence in early ancient Greece.

6. The recently disclosed genetic evidence that ancient remains are NOT the ancestors of most modern Europeans

7. The proximity of Greece to Africa

8. The fundamental difference between the language of early Greeks and bronze age Greeks/modern Greeks

9. Etc


Only a fool or outright delusional liar can conclude anything different

 -

Don't forget Villena finding that Greeks possess HLA genes similar to Sub-Saharans.

 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
xyyman, the main problem is that you have no basic understanding of these topics.

The Basic White (BW) type still exists in Europe today. These survivors are unreduced UP (Upper Palaeolithic) Cro-Magnid types - rugged, ancestral Caucasoids having changed very little.

quote:
Cro-Magnid (Basic White)

Europid (Caucasoid) types descended from the robust, dolichocephalic and broad-faced population exemplified by Crô-Magnon, continuing the classic type of the hunter-gatherers of the temperate-cold/cold regions.

As with the other Cro-Magnid types, male facial features can be very ruggedly masculine, often with exaggeratedly pronounced browridges and deep orthognathous jaws

There was a late survival of these rugged unreduced Palaeolithic Caucasoids across Europe and they can still be found today in various subtypes, for example Brunn and Palaeo-Atlantid.

A perfect example -

 -

Sebastien Chabal

This is what the Basic White type looked like. Clearly Caucasoid, not Negroid. Although through your delusion and self-hatred I presume you will claim Chabal is a ''black man''... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:


The proof if overwhelming – ancient Greeks were either pure blacks or at minimum admixed. Here is why.




Angel felt that the early neolithic Macedonians had some negroesque tendancies

what happened after the neolithic?
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ They were absorbed by the indigenous European population is what happened.
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:

Man!! God damn! Even the best sometimes get fooled! I have to hand it to you white people you are good at trickery. I fell for the play on words. Even a person in my profession. I should be ashamed myself.

You use the word Caucasoids and I hear or read European and go into a tizzy.

Ok!! I agree with you! Let’s call them Caucasoids. Now, as a supposedly well read person. WHERE DID THEY ORIGINATE???? The EurAfricans? Most scholars agree that the same people circum-navigated-occupied the Mediterranean.

That is really the issue. You have to agree that these “Caucasoids” originated in the Sudan area of. . . . . . help me out.

Clearly the genetic and morphological evidence show the same type of people (the base) occupied both sides of the Mediterranean sea.

And for the newbies. This map clearly shows the point of entry into Europe from Africa. Note: All the European Peninsulars(point of entry) have a high frequency of African PN2 (E1b1b).

For those who cannot connect the dots. . .

That is why ancient Iberians (and people of the Megaliths), Estruscans(Pre-Romans?), Minoans/People of Lerna(pre-Greeks), ancient Persians, ancient Phoenicians are ALL DISSIMILAR to modern populations in that region. Most morphological and genetic studies confirm that. Modern Europeans do not have the same Language, genes, morphology, and culture to these ancient populations because they are NOT them. Delusional Albino . . . .eh. . . White MFers!!! LOL!


So!.....PI and Lioness. Showing one handpicked photo and using the word Caucasoid is not proof. Bring me hard scientific evidence then we can talk man-o-man-o otherwise get the **** outta my face.

XY, don't forget about what I said here:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

Actually you are half right. "Basic white" is a false construct based on the same vague typology as "Mediterranean". I have read the term in many old anthropological documents and have heard it used by Euronuts here and there for years but I never got a grasp of what it really meant until Dana explained it to me quite recently. "Basic White" is a description for early Europeans who still possess archaic traits of their early ancestors, hence why Euronuts such as Dienekes sometimes use the synonym "archaic whites" or "primitive whites". The problem is many of the same features of these 'archaic whites' can also be seen in other early populations including those in North Africa! I myself was surprised to learn that it was Angel himself who coined the term 'basic whites', especially since he was the mentor of Keita and thought him to be more 'progressive' in his anthropological approach but of course Angel is still a man (white man) of his time so he obviously had his flaws.

Despite Angel's mistake in his label of 'basic white', it would equally be a mistake to reverse his methodology and thus refer to any and all skulls with such features as 'African'! That includes the skulls of early Britain and western Europe as well as Persia and even as far east as Mongolia!! It is this part of your claim that is wrong, xyyman! Therefore, reversing the label into somehow being a 'basic black' is also wrong. The fact of the matter is that all these disparate populations happen to share similar archaic affinities or really robust qualities of the face and skull, that does NOT mean all these populations are closely related and therefore NON of these populations who share such features represent a specific 'type' at all!

But speaking of cranio-facial features, I will have more on the Lerna skulls tomorrow.

Even many indigenous (white) Europeans differ in appearance from their ancestors, that doesn't mean they are not related to them! Switching the 'basic white' to mean 'basic black' does not help your cause because such typological features are found as far east as Mongolia, unless you want to say black Africans migrated all the way there!

That said, you are indeed correct about African immigrations into the Mediterranean basin and Greece, because many of the skulls that show this actually display more "negroid" traits than so-called 'basic white' traits. I cited a source by Al B. Wesolowsky above.
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass:

Wesolowsky is talking about ONE of the skulls, a female mentioned by Angel, of semi-negroid traits

Now go to Angel, People of Lerna:

http://books.google.com/books?id=B10QrRCmtZsC&lpg=PA33&ots=MAylH

type in the search "negroid" or "negro" or "African"

Try to identify this woman. Angel says Dinaric Medditerrananeans may have some Negroid features, they are Type F
I found the F type female aka Macedonain neolithic in people of Lerna

Try it yourself, go to the skulls showing in the book link and read every caption try to find what number skull might be being talked about

Now pay attention to your quote below:

_____________________________________________

Wesolowsky: Skeletons of Lerna Hollow, p 344

The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as

"a number of 'negroid' (not full negro)traits in the face. 10"


^^^^ but this footnote 10 is not from People of Lerna it's from James Wiseman talking about what Angel supposedly said. I don't have this source:

 -

look ^^^ footnote 10

 -

see 10 and 12

LMAO [Big Grin] In other words this all point to ADMIXTURE! By the way, I am well aware of what Angel says about Neolithic Balkans.

Larry Angel (1972): "one can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters.(McCown, 1939)and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia via the predecesors of the Badarians and Tasians"

Spin that, twit! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Fool me once . . .eh!!….a-la Bush.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! More picture spamming. That is getting old, man. And throwing out old labels eg Caucasoids, Negroesque . In the words of Mike. Damn! You are . . .

OK. For the sake of moving this discussion forward and not wasting my time. Let’s label them Caucasoids. You still still haven’t answered my question PI. . . .. where did these so called Caucasoids EurAfricans originate?

Point of origin?
Morphological Lineage?
Language – most similar to?
Culture?
Genetic Lineage?

Let me help you…All point to the Sudan.

So one can conclude, the Pre-Greeks were black Caucasoids(hope you are happy. HE! HE! HE!), Negroques, Africans from the Sudan. Now there is a label!!!


And one more thing

Can you explain:

1. Why current Greeks carry African version of Sickle Cell. Note: Angel(People of Lerna) concluded from the skeletal remains sickle cell was prevalent
2. PN2 in Greeks
3. Etc

Remember I agreed they were Caucasoids, so, please don’t say they are Caucasoids. “ I gots you!” Fist-thump-one tap!

If you use the word Caucasoid one more time this conversation is done!!!!
 
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Though it is wrong to assume all the 'pre-Greeks' were black. Remember that these African immigrants did encounter people living in Greece already-- the indigenous folks who were still hunter-gatherers. The Afro-diasporan immigrants introduced neolithic culture i.e. plant and animal domestication and undoubtedly mixed with the more predominant natives who eventually absorbed them. The actual Greeks or Hellenes came much later probably from the north.

The finding that these Neolithic forebears were of African extraction is a huge slap in the face to the white supremacist Euroloons. [Big Grin]

"But people who do world history usually begin with the origins of agriculture. There are at least seven or eight ­ maybe eleven to thirteen ­ world regions which independently invented agriculture. None in Europe, by the way...

..Here's the point: agriculture was invented in Africa in at least three centers, and maybe even four. In Africa, you find the earliest domestication of cattle. The location, the pottery and other materials we've found makes it likely that happened among the Nilo-Saharan peoples, the sites are in southern Egypt. There is an exceptionally strong correlation between archaeology and language on this issue...

Christopher Ehret, 'Interviewed by WHC'(2003)

The Argolid prefecture in Greece is said to be among the earliest sites of agriculture in Greece. The Argolid area itself is identified as the seat and center of the goddess Hera whose cult is much older than that of her husband Zeus. Lerna in particular was the site of one of her chthonic creatures, the hydra who was slayed by Heracles (Hercules).
 
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
it is wrong to assume all the 'pre-Greeks' were black.

Remember that these African immigrants did encounter people living in Greece already-- the indigenous folks who were still hunter-gatherers.

The Afro-diasporan immigrants introduced neolithic culture i.e. plant and animal domestication and undoubtedly mixed with the more predominant natives who eventually absorbed them. The actual Greeks or Hellenes came much later probably from the north.


prior to the African immigrants you say indigenous non-black hunter-gatherers lived in the Greece region.
Where did they come from before that? What is their origin?
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
OK. For the sake of moving this discussion forward and not wasting my time. Let’s label them Caucasoids.

You know they are anyway. These cranial forms have nothing in common with Negroids.

quote:
You still still haven’t answered my question PI. . . .. where did these so called Caucasoids EurAfricans originate?
Western Eurasia

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These Cro-Magnid rugged types then moved into North Africa during the late stage of the Upper Palaeolithic and turn of the Holocene.

quote:
Let me help you…All point to the Sudan.
The earliest Cro-Magnon sites are in Europe. The Basic White or Cro-Magnoid originated in Eurasia as the archaeological evidence shows.

All the crap about 'sickle cell' has been debunked over. It is not a Negroid marker.
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
I finally got it!!!!

You are saying that (cro-magnoid) Europeans evolved in Europe. Later entered North Africa through Iberia. Also entered North Africa in Libya through the Italian Peninsular. And these Europeans then continued the occupation of North Africa to this date. They also went further East into the Nile Valley that is why you classify East Africans, North Africans and Europeans as all being Caucasoids.

These Caucasoids then developed advanced civilizations in Egypt and other parts of North Africa . They then extended their advance civilization back into Europe, beginning with the people of Lerna.

Does that sum it up?


What is you source for Cro-magnoid entering Africa and occupying North Africa?
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I finally got it!!!!

You are saying that (cro-magnoid) Europeans evolved in Europe. Later entered North Africa through Iberia. Also entered North Africa in Libya through the Italian Peninsular. And these Europeans then continued the occupation of North Africa to this date. They also went further East into the Nile Valley that is why you classify East Africans, North Africans and Europeans as all being Caucasoids.

These Caucasoids then developed advanced civilizations in Egypt and other parts of North Africa . They then extended their advance civilization back into Europe, beginning with the people of Lerna.

Does that sum it up?


What is you source for Cro-magnoid entering Africa and occupying North Africa?

Coon, 1962 -

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Note that Capoids (Khoisans) are indigenous to North Africa, but were pushed south and displaced by Caucasoids. This explains the Caucasoid genes in the Bushmen and why the earliest North African rock art depicts Capoids. A small remnant Capoid population can be found in the Badarian figurines.
 
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
I rest my case.......
 
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I finally got it!!!!

You are saying that (cro-magnoid) Europeans evolved in Europe. Later entered North Africa through Iberia. Also entered North Africa in Libya through the Italian Peninsular. And these Europeans then continued the occupation of North Africa to this date. They also went further East into the Nile Valley that is why you classify East Africans, North Africans and Europeans as all being Caucasoids.

These Caucasoids then developed advanced civilizations in Egypt and other parts of North Africa . They then extended their advance civilization back into Europe, beginning with the people of Lerna.

Does that sum it up?


What is you source for Cro-magnoid entering Africa and occupying North Africa?

Which of course can't be, since they were tropical adapted.

And could not have developed tropical limbs in an extreme arctic ice age. So they obviously came from somewhere else. Logic tells us it was Paleolithic Africans, who moved into Europe.

Modern Europeans only moved into Europe recently, during the Neolithic time frame, 10-8 kya.


ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS
OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS


Litvinov S* et al.

Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia. No evidence of correlation between genetic and linguistic data in our populations was disclosed.


Armenians are a separate ethnic group, which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands. In the 12th- 11th centuries BC...


However, we cannot exclude a Neolithic contribution to the contemporary gene pool. The possible reason for the absence of the frequency distribution gradient can be genetic drift, reinforced by isolation that could conceal the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasus populations [1,21].


While an Alu insertion marker does not have enough power of resolution to assess the contribution of the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasian gene pool, it clearly separates both South and North Caucasus populations (except Karanogays) from Siberian and Asian populations.





This too is supported by recent anthropological research.


quote:
Originally posted by xyyman:
I rest my case.......

Understandable.

The Pleistocene Epoch. [Wink]
 
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
^ Of course no Negroid will want to admit their true origins (recent mutations from Congoid Pygmies).

Denial is incredibly powerful. In the case of Afrocentrics it is feuled by self-hatred. No Negro wants to be a real 'Black African', instead they delude themselves they are indigenous from Europe to Australia.
 
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
Which of course can't be, since they were tropical adapted.

And could not have developed tropical limbs in an extreme arctic ice age. So they obviously came from somewhere else. Logic tells us it was Paleolithic Africans, who moved into Europe.

Modern Europeans only moved into Europe recently, during the Neolithic time frame, 10-8 kya.


ALU INSERTION POLYMORPHISMS IN POPULATIONS
OF THE SOUTH CAUCASUS


Litvinov S* et al.

Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia. No evidence of correlation between genetic and linguistic data in our populations was disclosed.


Armenians are a separate ethnic group, which originated from Neolithic tribes of the Armenian Uplands. In the 12th- 11th centuries BC...


However, we cannot exclude a Neolithic contribution to the contemporary gene pool. The possible reason for the absence of the frequency distribution gradient can be genetic drift, reinforced by isolation that could conceal the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasus populations [1,21].


While an Alu insertion marker does not have enough power of resolution to assess the contribution of the influence of Neolithic farmers on the Caucasian gene pool, it clearly separates both South and North Caucasus populations (except Karanogays) from Siberian and Asian populations.

This too is supported by recent anthropological research.

Troll Patrol - Excellent the way you used knowledge of the Cold adapted bullsh1t to draw a logical deduction.

But they still have you snookered on the other details.

Modern Europeans only moved into Europe recently, during the Neolithic time frame, 10-8 kya. Really - Albinos in Europe circa 8,000 B.C. Damn, where did that come from?


Although it was not possible to determine a contribution of Neolithic farmers to the Caucasian gene pool, the principal component analysis showed clear differences between these populations and those of Europe, Siberia and Asia.

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Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Tutsi crania.


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Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
 
^?????
 


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