quote:

---

For example, short mitochondrial DNA sequences have been recovered from
the remains of a liver found in a canopic jar belonging to Nekht-Ankh, a priest of the
Middle Kingdom.77 These sequences when compared to the sequences recovered from
the Delta population (Lower Egypt), it were found to be identical to four of the
modern Egyptian mitochondrial lineages. Preliminary results from PCR on the Nile
Delta population in the late 1980s found that “small subsets of modern Egyptian
mitochondrial DNA lineages are closely related to Sub-Saharan African lineages.”78
Thus PCR, although dogged by problems of contamination from human
handling of material during and after excavation as well as from fungi, bacteria and
other agents, is primarily aimed at studying ancient populations and their interactions
within their historical context and not necessarily to label them “black” or “white.”

---

quote:

---

Based on artistic depictions, it is true that in the Old Kingdom, “Egyptian men
were depicted as reddish brown, women yellow and people living in the south
black.”176 Some Afrocentrists by relating this to other African practices, convincingly
propose that the color symbolism was related to the ancient Egyptian religious
conceptualization of the cycle of life and death. The paint consisted of red ochre, an
oxide of iron and a vegetable gum binder. The paint probably signified the “blood of
life” encompassed in the male and the yellow represented “fertility” encompassed in
the female. The ancient Egyptian society was patriarchal and the economy was based
primarily on agricultural fertility. These implications of color symbolism may then hold ground.
Furthermore, the goddess Hathor, who was believed to give birth to the yellow sun
everyday, was considered the “patroness of women.”

---

p52-54


http://etd.ohiolink.edu/send-pdf.cgi?miami1090531381
 

---

Posted by Narmerthoth (Member # 20259) on :
 
^ Obviously a test performed by Albinos who've withheld key DNA data confirming the presence/absence of the OCA gene defect (Albino), and melanin density.
They've certainly run these tests and as usual, withheld these test results which would prove "RACE" without a shadow of doubt.

Albinos have a long history of uninterrupted lying. Trust nothing they post or say without being triple confirmed for truthfulness/accuracy.
They are; GUILTY, until proven innocent.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
The thesis was written by a Kenyan 'Henry Louis Gates' type black who is more than happy to deny black Egypt in front of her white academic peers, for a few pats on the back.

I'm still not sure if the absence of the actual name of the ''lineage' is due to her not citing it, or due to the geneticists omitting it. I presume its the latter since Paabo et al (the geneticists implicated here) also didn't reveal the name of the Sub-Saharan lineages they extracted from 12th dynasty royal remains.
 

---

Posted by Narmerthoth (Member # 20259) on :
 
^ After reviewing the thesis, it sounds exactly like something Oshun would propose. A
She proposes the start of Afrocentric studies didn't began until Molefi Kete Asante in the 60s.



After completing the thesis and all it's inaccuracies, misinterpreted information, and false assumptions, all I can say is;
It's a damn shame how susceptible Negro African women are to Albino indoctrination techniques.
 

---

Posted by JujuMan (Member # 6729) on :
 
Romeo NOT done!
 

---

Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Based on artistic depictions, it is true that in the Old Kingdom, “Egyptian men
were depicted as reddish brown, women yellow and people living in the south
black.”176 Some Afrocentrists by relating this to other African practices, convincingly
propose that the color symbolism was related to the ancient Egyptian religious
conceptualization of the cycle of life and death. The paint consisted of red ochre, an
oxide of iron and a vegetable gum binder. The paint probably signified the “blood of
life” encompassed in the male and the yellow represented “fertility” encompassed in
the female. The ancient Egyptian society was patriarchal and the economy was based
primarily on agricultural fertility. These implications of color symbolism may then hold ground.
Furthermore, the goddess Hathor, who was believed to give birth to the yellow sun
everyday, was considered the “patroness of women.”

---

---

I would like to know exactly which African practices she's referring to, though it's definitely a more compelling explanation than the orthodox suntanning hypothesis.
 

---

Posted by Narmerthoth (Member # 20259) on :
 
Good Dawgy..

 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL

Regardless of whether the author is under the influence of her white peers, what matters are her findings which show that ancient Egyptians as well as some modern day Egyptians from the delta share so-called 'Sub-Saharan' lineages.

Such findings are of course a dime a dozen of the genetic findings on ancient remains, which is all the more hilarious why the black identity of the Egyptians all but stated by academia.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:

I would like to know exactly which African practices she's referring to, though it's definitely a more compelling explanation than the orthodox suntanning hypothesis.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

The thesis was written by a Kenyan 'Henry Louis Gates' type black who is more than happy to deny black Egypt in front of her white academic peers, for a few pats on the back.

I'm still not sure if the absence of the actual name of the ''lineage' is due to her not citing it, or due to the geneticists omitting it. I presume its the latter since Paabo et al (the geneticists implicated here) also didn't reveal the name of the Sub-Saharan lineages they extracted from 12th dynasty royal remains.

---

LOL I'm sure if these lineages were 'Near Eastern' or even European, we would not only know which specific lineages these were but we would NEVER heard the end of these findings. Of course since these lineages were 'Sub-Saharan' they are exactly headline news and considered academic obscurity to the public.
 

---

Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I'm not sure if the reddish brown hue of Egyptian males had to do with concepts of the blood of life so much as the average complexion, though the yellow coloring of females may very well have to do with actual symbolism since as I've pointed out several times before there are Afrisian speaking groups whose women paint themselves with yellow ochre especially on special occasions from the Saharan Tuareg to women in Ethiopia.

---

quote:

---

In conclusion, it is evident that “race” as understood today in terms of skin
color was not a key identity marker for the ancient Egyptian. Furthermore, “the first to
call special attention to the Nubian’s [Nehesi] blackness were people [the Greeks]
living outside Africa.”204 In addition, the division of mankind into races as understood
in the modern sense began with F. Bernier in the seventeenth century of our
era.205Thus the Afrocentric insistence on the ancient Egyptians as a black race proves
anachronistic and limited because the ancient Egyptian did not conceptualize himself
or herself in this way.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I'm not sure if the reddish brown hue of Egyptian males had to do with concepts of the blood of life so much as the average complexion

---

It has been mentioned before by Egyptologists that the red paint may have had a youthful connotation to it, and there are several murals that confirm this, such as this one:



You don't see it in this repro, but the original image of this mural is similar to these scenes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3tPMmmmHr-I/TqI-FCSLkhI/AAAAAAAACKg/-pxuIACDy5w/s640/ancient-egyptian-circumcision.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Akmanthor.jpg

in the sense that the two figures who are doing the shooting are depicted lighter skinned (reddish), while the instructing figures behind them are depicted darker skinned (brown proper).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL I'm sure if these lineages were 'Near Eastern' or even European, we would not only know which specific lineages these were but we would NEVER heard the end of these findings.

---

Well, whatever continental origin one believes this lineage has, it is another slap in the face of those who hold that the Ancient Egyptians are identical to the moderns.

Nekht Ankh




 

---

Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Leaving aside the issue of whether or not the Ancient Egyptians saw themselves as part of the same lineage as people to the South, how is it okay for her to be talking about the blackness of Napatan Nubians, yet, a few lines later, complain it is anachronistic to refer to Egyptians as such?

The last time I checked, the ancient Egyptians and ancient Sudanese were contemporary, and so, it would have to be anachronistic to refer to Sudanese as 'black' as well.

The fact that she doesn't treat Napatans the same as the ancient Egyptians, shows there are other motives for shying away from calling them, or at least them, sans the nationalized Asiatics and Mediterraneans, black.

Her thesis is in fact full with nagging complaints from herself and Egyptologists about why its problematic to refer to people as either black or white in a biological sense, yadi yadi yadi, only to reveal the triviality of such pretended 'expert posturing' by calling Napatan and Meroitic Nubians black several lines later.

---

quote:

---

Snachomenus, aged about 20, of middle size, sallow complexion, round faced and straight nosed

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
The sallow or light hue of ancient egyptian females was not symbolic, but represents their real skin hue. Eye-witness descriptions of such pigmentation of living ancient egyptians is found preserved in various papyrus -

quote:

---

Snachomenus, aged about 20, of middle size, sallow complexion, round faced and straight nosed

---

This is from an ancient papyrus translated by Dr. Young, found in Morton (1846). There are many more examples.

Game over Afronuts...

---

What was the skin color of the other Egyptians in that papyrus, you phucking fraud. Also, next time, make sure you add the fact that the document is late period. No one is arguing that many Egyptians had honey colored skin tones by that time.



Try again, dufus.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
You're far from the only one who has observed this double standard. The orthodoxy celebrates the Nubians as the "Black Pharaohs" all the time, but once you suggest that the Egyptians themselves may have also qualified for the "black" adjective they distract you with this whole "modern racial categories didn't exist back then". I'm all for giving the Nubian civilization more attention, but if Egyptologists want to advertise the Nubians' race, they can't play the anti-racialist with the Egyptians.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
BTW, if Egyptian color schemes for men were really symbolic as implied by the thesis author, I bet that a lot of Egyptians, especially those in Upper Egypt, weren't that much lighter than Nubians.

---

If you ask me, the Ancient Egyptians weren't pigmented to the max either, like some Nubian groups would have been. If you look at early holocenic cave paintings, such as the cave of swimmers, the people are painted (mostly) brown skinned, I believe more highly pigmented figures are also represented. I wouldn't say symbolic coloration extended that far back in time. Slightly lighter skin color should be expected, given their latitude.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKWm9Q0vbT4C&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=


Facial reconstruction of the two brothers, Nekht-Ankh and Knum-Nakht by Richard Neave

Skull of Nekht-Ankh


The skull is the matrix upon which the head and face we built. If the shape of the soft tissue can be rebuilt on a skull, the result will be a reconstruction which the proportion and position of the main, features will be accurate. By utilising measurements of soft issue thickness, as established by Kollman end Buchly in 1898, the features of these two mummies were built up in clay on casts of the skull.

Nevertheless the details of certain areas - nose. mouth and ears - are open to speculation. Both Nekht-Ankh and Khnum-Nakht showed a marked similarity to the two small wooden statuettes, which were found in the tomb.


The tomb of the two brothers, Khnum-Nakht and Nekht-Ankh, was discovered by a workman called Erfai, working under the supervision of British Egyptologist Ernest Mackay in the course of official excavations directed by Sir William Flinders Petrie (1852-1942), within the British School of Archaeology. The contents of the burial site were passed to the Manchester Museum where they were studied by Margaret Murray (1908) and more recently by Prof. Rosalie David (1979).
The two brothers came from Der Rifeh in Middle Egypt and originate from the 12th Dynasty (c.1985-1773 BC). Their burial was the finest non-royal tomb found in that area.






Forensic Facial Reconstruction
By Caroline Wilkinson
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
.


IGBO WEDDINGS



significant differences in skin tone
this couldn't happen in Egypt???


^^^^^ If this happens frequently amoung Igbos why, when you look at some couples depicted in Egyptian art, would one assume that the lighter color SOME woman have in the Egyptian art is "symbolic" ????
-why not ALL the women is it's symbolism?
-in fact many women in couples are also NOT lighter in color in the art

_________________________________^^^ no difference here

-the assumption of some sort of symbolism does not even apply consistently on couples because while SOME couples in Egypt are portrayed with different complexions (as similar to the Igbo couple above) plenty of OTHER couples are portrayed with the SAME complexion.
And where is the support in Egyptian texts?


.


Sennefer and Hatshepsut-Meryetre, 18th Dynsaty



lioness productions
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL Sorry lyinass but ancient Egyptians color symbolism is different from modern day favoritism of women with actual light complexions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I'm not sure if the reddish brown hue of Egyptian males had to do with concepts of the blood of life so much as the average complexion

---

It has been mentioned before by Egyptologists that the red paint may have had a youthful connotation to it, and there are several murals that confirm this, such as this one:



You don't see it in this repro, but the original image of this mural is similar to these scenes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3tPMmmmHr-I/TqI-FCSLkhI/AAAAAAAACKg/-pxuIACDy5w/s640/ancient-egyptian-circumcision.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Akmanthor.jpg

in the sense that the two figures who are doing the shooting are depicted lighter skinned (reddish), while the instructing figures behind them are depicted darker skinned (brown proper).

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL I'm sure if these lineages were 'Near Eastern' or even European, we would not only know which specific lineages these were but we would NEVER heard the end of these findings.

---

Well, whatever continental origin one believes this lineage has, it is another slap in the face of those who hold that the Ancient Egyptians are identical to the moderns.

Nekht Ankh

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot:

The sallow or light hue of ancient egyptian females was not symbolic, but represents their real skin hue. Eye-witness descriptions of such pigmentation of living ancient egyptians is found preserved in various papyrus -

quote:

---

Snachomenus, aged about 20, of middle size, sallow complexion, round faced and straight nosed

---

This is from an ancient papyrus translated by Dr. Young, found in Morton (1846). There are many more examples.

Game over Afronuts...

---

So if the light hue of women was not symbolic, then what are we to make of the chocolate dark hue of the men? Please don't give that pigsh*t about 'tans' again.

Also, can you provide us the papyrus text you cite in its original Mdu-Neter text as opposed to a translated version?

You'll have to forgive me that I don't trust anything you translate not only because you're a dishonest troll but I find many Egyptian texts tend to be mistranslated such as for example the common mistranslation of the word hedj with metal determinative to being 'white' as opposed to 'shiny'.

Game's been over for YOU Euronuts.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
You're far from the only one who has observed this double standard. The orthodoxy celebrates the Nubians as the "Black Pharaohs" all the time, but once you suggest that the Egyptians themselves may have also qualified for the "black" adjective they distract you with this whole "modern racial categories didn't exist back then". I'm all for giving the Nubian civilization more attention, but if Egyptologists want to advertise the Nubians' race, they can't play the anti-racialist with the Egyptians.

---

Agree.

---

quote:

---

Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
BTW, if Egyptian color schemes for men were really symbolic as implied by the thesis author, I bet that a lot of Egyptians, especially those in Upper Egypt, weren't that much lighter than Nubians.

---

If you ask me, the Ancient Egyptians weren't pigmented to the max either, like some Nubian groups would have been. If you look at early holocenic cave paintings, such as the cave of swimmers, the people are painted (mostly) brown skinned, I believe more highly pigmented figures are also represented. I wouldn't say symbolic coloration extended that far back in time. Slightly lighter skin color should be expected, given their latitude.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
^ After reviewing the thesis, it sounds exactly like something Oshun would propose. A
She proposes the start of Afrocentric studies didn't began until Molefi Kete Asante in the 60s.



After completing the thesis and all it's inaccuracies, misinterpreted information, and false assumptions, all I can say is;
It's a damn shame how susceptible Negro African women are to Albino indoctrination techniques.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot:

The sallow or light hue of ancient egyptian females was not symbolic, but represents their real skin hue. Eye-witness descriptions of such pigmentation of living ancient egyptians is found preserved in various papyrus -

quote:

---

Snachomenus, aged about 20, of middle size, sallow complexion, round faced and straight nosed

---

This is from an ancient papyrus translated by Dr. Young, found in Morton (1846). There are many more examples.

Game over Afronuts...

---

So if the light hue of women was not symbolic, then what are we to make of the chocolate dark hue of the men? Please don't give that pigsh*t about 'tans' again.

Also, can you provide us the papyrus text you cite in its original Mdu-Neter text as opposed to a translated version?

You'll have to forgive me that I don't trust anything you translate not only because you're a dishonest troll but I find many Egyptian texts tend to be mistranslated such as for example the common mistranslation of the word hedj with metal determinative to being 'white' as opposed to 'shiny'.

Game's been over for YOU Euronuts.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

Sennefer and Hatshepsut-Meryetre, 18th Dynsaty



lioness productions

---

yea but isnt this allso Hatshepsut?



If so why the colors different if its supposed to represent how she literally look?
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
Indeed. Note the "negroid" traits of nose etc.

---

_______________________________^^^ These two photos, remarkably, are either the same reconstruction at a different angle or there is an error.
Whatever the case may be, each of the two photos of what is supposedly the same sculpture give a different impression as to what you call "negroid traits"

source:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NKWm9Q0vbT4C&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=

____________________________________________________________

the other brother:


________________________________________________________

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
We discussed this before with Wally in several past threads on Egyptian color symbolism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

I believe the lighter color on males is symbolic of them having not entered manhood yet. In a lot of African cultures boys are not recognized as men until they are initiated into manhood, usually by circumcision. Note that in one of the pictures are two boys colored yellow like females who are being circumcised by dark 'official' men.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

So if the light hue of women was not symbolic, then what are we to make of the chocolate dark hue of the men?

---

Coffins of
Khnum-Nakht and Nekht-Ankh

____________________________________________________^^^^this skin tone is more orangish beige than chocolate



^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oshun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

Sennefer and Hatshepsut-Meryetre, 18th Dynsaty

^^^WRONG: CORRECTION

Sennefer and Meryt, 18th Dynsaty

^^^^ CORRECT.

MYRT and Hatshepsut-Meryetre are two different people


lioness productions

---

yea but isnt this allso Hatshepsut?



If so why the colors different if its supposed to represent how she literally look?

---

UPDATE; see my correction about this here:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=007398

the sculpture and painting are of Sennefer and his wife Myrt

Myrt is not "Hatshepsut-Meryetre"

what happened in my opinion is that the Louvre museum has it wrong, read about it in the above link

three different people:

1) Myrt

2) Queen Hatshepsut

3) Queen Hatshepsut-Meryetre

Sennefer was a Mayor not a king and he was not married to either of these two Queens.
He was married to Myrt
 

---

Posted by malibudusul (Member # 19346) on :
 
The colors, white, yellow, red, etc. .. are symbolic
the Egyptians were black and brown.

Diop was tested for melanin therein
so therefore it has been scientifically proven
 

---

Posted by malibudusul (Member # 19346) on :
 
Two examples of statues
represent the Egyptians as they were




 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
^ Funny, I entered Snachomenus into Google and didn't get any results whatsoever.

---

It appears I may have spelt it incorrect. Here is the extract below (Morton, 1844):



This also appears in Pettigrew (1834), Wilkinson (1837) and Morton (1848).

Dr. Young was the translator (Hieroglyph. Literature, p. 70).

Note what I have underlined in red.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Non-Literary-Papyri-Private-Documents-Classical/dp/0674992946

Non-Literary Papyri: v. 1: Private Documents (Loeb Classical Library)

This contains earlier papyrus describing ancient egyptians as ''sallow'' or light skinned.

I would also suggest purchasing Loeb's translation of Manetho's 'Aegyptiaca', as it contains a description of Nitocris as flava rubris genis, ''blonde with rosy cheeks''.

Note the following from my essay:

quote:

---

The earliest Great Royal Wife we have an extant literary physical description of is Nitocris (Dynasty VI, 22nd century BC). Although the exact historicity of Nitocris is disputed, many egyptologists since the 19th century have maintained she was related to Queen Neith, the wife of Pepi II or Pepi himself, although other theories have been proposed as shall be shown just below (Wilkinson, Herodotus, vol. ii. p. 165, note 2; Grimal, A History of Ancient Egypt, 1992, p. 89 cf. Newberry, 1943, p. 53). The extant physical description of Nitocris comes from Manetho's Aegyptiaca (''History of Egypt'') written in the 3rd century BC, but draws on a far older pre-Herodotean tradition (Loyd, Commentary on Herodotus, 1988, p. 14; Gera, Warrior Women, 1997, p. 101). Nitocris appears mentioned in Herodotus (ii. 100) and Eratosthenes (FGrH 610 F1) but is first physically described in a fragment by Manetho (FGrH 609 F2, f3a-b). Since Manetho's Aegyptiaca has not come down to us complete, we only have preserved fragments from later chroniclers (such as Eusebius and Syncellus). In George Syncellus' Chronography quoting Eusebius (FGrH 609 F 3) for example it is said -

''Nitocris, the noblest and loveliest of woman of her time, of fair complexion,
the builder of the third pyramid, reigned for 12 years.''

We find in the original Greek here that Nitocris was xanthe, fair or blonde, which usually is attributed to the hair, not skin complexion (see Myres, Who were the Greeks?, 1930, p. 194). However another variant fragment found in Eusebius' Chronicon (xlvii) describes Nitocris as flava rubris genis, ''blonde with rosy cheeks'' (Waddell, Manetho, 1940, p. 57). According to Wilkinson: ''Nitocris was a woman of great beauty; and, if we may believe Manetho, she had a fair complexion and flaxen hair'' (1837, p. 91). Manetho's fragments assert that it was Nitocris who ordered the construction of the third pyramid (the pyramid of Menkaure). Scholars have long noted the connection between Nitocris and Rhodopis, the ''rosy-cheeked'' woman, who in Greek and Roman tradition is also described as having been a Queen of Egypt and architect of the third pyramid (Lloyd 1988, pp. 14-15, Tyldesley, Daughters of Isis, 1994, pp. 217-218). Thus we have a strong literary tradition of a blonde and fair skinned or ''rosy-cheeked'' Queen of Egypt (Great Royal Wife) during the Old Kingdom period who is associated with the construction of a pyramid.

In his book The Sky-Religion in Egypt (1938, pp. 42-43) the Egyptologist Gerald Avery Wainright identifies Nitocris (Rhodopis) as Hetepheres II, a daughter of Khufu (Cheops). Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69

---

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007642

I would like to know how Negroids ('Blacks') can be ''blonde with rosy cheeks''... lol
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
You always focus on individuals, e.g., Heteperes, Rahotep, wife of Nitocris, ''Snachomenus'' (lol) to talk about light skinned Egyptians. A single ancient Egyptian wall mural outweighs all light skinned individuals you can ever dream of conjuring up:

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/el_bersheh/djehoutyhotep/photo/djehoutyhotep_21.jpg

This is what tanned whites looked like in the ancient world:





.........nothing like Egyptians who are pictured in those same murals.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 


Princess Nefertiabet (26th century BC stele)

Compare to Negroid ('Black'):


 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
You're only proving my point. You're relying on light skinned individuals, as well as the fact that you use yellow skinned female depictions.

Post images of early dynastic Ancient Egyptian gatherings, where an entire group of both males and females look like this:



 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[QB] You always focus on individuals, e.g., Heteperes, Rahotep, wife of Nitocris, ''Snachomenus'' (lol) to talk about light skinned Egyptians. A single ancient Egyptian wall mural outweighs all light skinned individuals you can ever dream of conjuring up:

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/el_bersheh/djehoutyhotep/photo/djehoutyhotep_21.jpg

This is what tanned whites looked like in the ancient world:

---

quote:

---

The Aryan (Nordic) racial traits of these proto-dynastic rulers have all ready been outlined from various sources, but Waddell shows a head bust of Manishtushu (Menes, Manium, Minos) which once had inlaid bright blue eyes made from lapis-luzili, ''to represent the blue eyes of the Aryan race'' (1930, pp. 39-40, plate. 1).

---

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007642

Note that the bust of Menes (Manishtushu) has blue eyes:


 

---

Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
 
http://www.pnas.org/content/86/6/1939.full.pdf


^ DNA Test in question.

I am going on memory here but I think the specific lineages were not named because this was a quite early study. I dont know of the nomenclature/ naming scheme of the lineages (L0-L3 + M and N)was quite put together yet.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
You're only proving my point. You're relying on light skinned individuals, as well as the fact that you use yellow skinned female depictions.

Post images of early dynastic Ancient Egyptian gatherings, where an entire group of both males and females look like this:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
http://www.pnas.org/content/86/6/1939.full.pdf


^ DNA Test in question.

I am going on memory here but I think the specific lineages were not named because this was a quite early study. I dont know of the nomenclature/ naming scheme of the lineages (L0-L3 + M and N)was quite put together yet.

---

They mention Nekht Ankh and some of the results, but its not the same paper that was referenced by Mwanika Eva.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
It doesn't appear you have studied the class proportion. In ancient Greece and Rome, the upper classes were composed of a tiny elite, not more than 7% of the population (Day, 2001).

In ancient Egypt, Dart (1937, 1962) estimated that the ''pharonic type'' (royals, nobles) was no more than 10% of the population. That is why only light skinned individuals appear, because they are outnumbered by the darker skinned bulk middle-lower classes.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
^It has been argued numerous times that Ancient Egyptian art is not representative, because it tended to focus on the elite rather than commoners, so your shitty excuse makes no sense.

Now, where are these images of whites in congregation, you dumb idiot. Show them like how they appear below, but instead of brown skinned, show groups of white male and female nobles attending ceremonies:





In other words, show authentic non-late period images that have ancient Egyptian male and female nobles colored like this:


 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
^^And so there are thousands upon thousands of these images. In Egyptian tombs.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_F/Lying hog:
The sallow or light hue of ancient egyptian females was not symbolic, but represents their real skin hue. Eye-witness descriptions of such pigmentation of living ancient egyptians is found preserved in various papyrus -

quote:

---

Snachomenus, aged about 20, of middle size, sallow complexion, round faced and straight nosed

---

This is from an ancient papyrus translated by Dr. Young, found in Morton (1846). There are many more examples.

Game over Afronuts...

---

First off all, there was NO CREDIBLE translation during that time.

As they did not understand NETHER KHMNETER. And they in most cases still don't understand it! DORKY F/LYING HOG!!!

Second, color symbolism was real as it gets.

Third, light skin complexion did exits.

















Overall, these studies can be interpreted as suggesting that the Egyptian Nile Valley's indigenous population had a craniofacial pattern that evolved and emerged in northeastern Africa, whose geography in relationship to climate largely explains the variation.


semi-tropical/arid tropic zones, show clear limb proportion characteristics of tropically adapted people, and MORE closely resemble other tropically adapted Africans on the continent, than Europeans or Middle Easterners. (Raxter and Ruff 2008, Zakrewski 2003, 2007; Holliday et al, 2003, Kemp, 2005) 3) Undermining claims of cold-climate or skin color primacy for civilization, the great ancient Nile Valley civilization arose from the 'darker' more tropical south, NOT the cold climate or cool climate Mediterranean, Europe or Asia. (Clark, 1982; Shaw 1976, 2003; Bard, 2004; Vogel, 1997; Kemp 2005)


African peoples are the most diverse in the world whether analyzed by DNA or skeletal or cranial methods. The peoples of the Nile Valley vary but they are still related. The people most related ethnically to the ancient Egyptians are other Africans like Nubians not cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics. (Keita 1996; Rethelford, 2001; Bianchi 2004, Yurco 1989; Godde 2009)



However, still parts Egypt has cold nightly temperatures and cold winters. In some parts it can get very cold during the night and early morning, like °F 37.4 sometimes lower. As the temperature rises slow during 6-am and 10-am to °F 60.8. Then rises quickly up to °F 77 and higher to during the middle of the day, till it reacher its hot peak. In the afternoon is lowers again by 22:00 PM it has dropped dramatically, already. Hence semi-Tropical zone.

This brought rise to the particular gene-, phenotype we see in Northeast Africans. And we know diet too effects the body.




Angela M. Hancock et al.


Since human populations occupy a wide variety of environments with respect to climate, selective pressures are expected to vary greatly across geographic regions. Adaptations to spatially varying selective pressures are evident in the geographic distributions of many traits. For example, significant correlations exist between body mass and temperature [13]–[14], consistent with Bergmann's and Allen's Rules. Furthermore, there is evidence that human metabolism has been shaped by adaptations to cold stress from studies of arctic populations, which exhibit elevated basal metabolic rates compared to non-indigenous populations [15].

Like body mass, variation in skin pigmentation is strongly correlated with climate and geography, i.e. distance from the equator and solar radiation [16]–[17]. Lighter pigmentation is likely to be adaptive in high latitudes, in part, because UV light is needed to penetrate the skin to produce vitamin D [16]–[19], which is necessary for calcium absorption and bone growth.





(A) Maps show the distributions of summer and winter climate variables: maximum summer temperature, minimum winter temperature and solar radiation, precipitation rate and relative humidity in the summer and winter. (B) A heatmap shows the absolute values of Spearman rank correlation coefficients between pairs of climate variables.





Table 3. SNPs with the strongest signals of selection among those associated with phenotypic traits in GWAS.



Stratigraphy and sedimentology at BirSahara, Egypt: Environments, climate change and the Middle Paleolithic


http://sspa.boisestate.edu/anthropology/files/2010/06/stratigraphy-and-sedimentology-at-bir-sahara.pdf

quote:

---

The most thorough studies on the prehistory of North Africa come from the land included within the present borders of Egypt and northern Sudan. The Nile river and the Sahara desert have alternatively affected each other on both cultural and environmental levels and Eastern Saharan populations have acted as intermediaries between central Saharans and Nilotic peoples in both east–west and west–east directions. The Eastern Sahara is often referred to as the Western Desert, as it is located west of the Nile river. However, the Eastern Sahara proper extends east of the Nile river, as well. This article regards the most relevant events of past human populations in the area. Main topics include: the spread of early anatomically modern humans (e.g., at Kurkur Oasis, Bir Tarfawi, BirSahara); the reoccupation of the Sahara after 10 000 years ago; the earliest herders (e.g., at Bir Kiseiba and Nabta Playa); the earliest production and the spread of pottery (e.g., at Nabta Playa, Bir Kiseiba, Gilf Kebir, Great Sand Sea); caprine herding (e.g., at Sodmein Cave, Dakhleh Oasis, Nabta Playa); the origins of farming (e.g., at Farafra Oasis); and the development of sedentism (e.g., at Dakhleh Oasis, Nabta Playa).

---

AFRICA, NORTH Sahara, Eastern, Elena A.A. Garcea et al.


Lakeside Cemeteries in the Sahara: 5000 Years of Holocene Population and Environmental Change


Paul C. Sereno et al.


http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObjectAttachment.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002995&representation=PDF





 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
stop the BS more ancient Egyptian males are portrayed as reddish brown than they are "sallow"

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
The skin color thing was already dealt with. As for the fisher man, his skin color may be similar, but the concave facial profile of that fisherman is typically European, and has nothing to do with how Egyptians depicted themselves, whatsoever.

.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_L/Flying caucasus hog:
It doesn't appear you have studied the class proportion. In ancient Greece and Rome, the upper classes were composed of a tiny elite, not more than 7% of the population (Day, 2001).

In ancient Egypt, Dart (1937, 1962) estimated that the ''pharonic type'' (royals, nobles) was no more than 10% of the population. That is why only light skinned individuals appear, because they are outnumbered by the darker skinned bulk middle-lower classes.

---

The burial found in the South. Of "the reality of the tropical adapted, maxillary, alveolar prognathic African with overbite." Packed with melanin specimen of African (negroid) origin. He, who died of a typical African decease, like the rest of his family members who suffered from this illness, called sickle cel!











Here we can see him depicted on his throne. On which he sat his ROYAL BLACK BEHIND!









 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Troll Patrol, that is not light (white) skin, but intermediate including light and medium brown as appears on the Luschan Scale.

Light (white) skin is 1-14. You are posting individuals from 15 - 18 (light brown) to medium brown (20's).

The fact you think brown skin is 'light' shows how little diversity is in your race.

The full pigmentation sprectrum (pale white) to dark brown is only found in Caucasoids.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
''The lightest pigmentation recorded in that of the Rifians, the most European looking Berbers. They have a 65 percent incidence of pinkish-white unexposed skin color. [...] This goes as high as 86 percent in some tribes.'' (Coon, 1965)



Berber child

Note: Zaharan claims the above child is ''Black'' and ''tropical african diversity'' [sic]... Yet as everyone knows, the only pale whites in North Africa are Caucasoids like this girl above. There is nothing ''Black'' about these people...
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 











Funny IS HOW THE TOMBS OF ANCIENT EGYPTIAN KINGS and QUEENS WAS PRIMARILY AT THE >>>SOUTH<<<.


Can I remind you people that this lying Anglo hog, is a person who actually never has been to Africa/ Egypt.


Caption: Tomb KV19 Egyptian Prince Montu-hir-Khopshef son Ramasses











 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
^ Funny, I entered Snachomenus into Google and didn't get any results whatsoever.

---

It appears I may have spelt it incorrect. Here is the extract below (Morton, 1844):



This also appears in Pettigrew (1834), Wilkinson (1837) and Morton (1848).

Dr. Young was the translator (Hieroglyph. Literature, p. 70).

Note what I have underlined in red.

---

.

Nobody's ever heard of "Pasammonthes". You only see this name mentioned in
Transactions of the American Philosophical Society: held at ..., Volume 9 1843
^^^ this is the source of the above text PAGE 121

http://books.google.com/books?id=J3hFAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq

let's read the complete first sentence of the above which starts at the bottom of PAGE 120:



>>> well there you have it, Greek period, as also shown with names like Ps_____________
This is a foreign rule period it doesn't count
But wait a minite wern't the Greeks___________?


.


Read this outdated 1843 material, It's pretty interesting with the Eurocentric detail on Egyptian ethnography, starts on PAGE 93

http://books.google.com/books?id=J3hFAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=psammonthes&



 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_junk yard brain:
Troll Patrol, that is not light (white) skin, but intermediate including light and medium brown as appears on the Luschan Scale.

Light (white) skin is 1-14. You are posting individuals from 15 - 18 (light brown) to medium brown (20's).

The fact you think brown skin is 'light' shows how little diversity is in your race.

The full pigmentation sprectrum (pale white) to dark brown is only found in Caucasoids.

---

Junk yard brain, that is light skin complexion. IN THE AFRICAN CONTEXT!!!!!!!



The Egyptians above are intermediate.


This is indigenous Southern Egyptian little girl is dark skinned,



These Egyptians from the North are light skinned,





cont...



















Got it, Ok!
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

---

.

African Population SNP admixture
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

The full pigmentation sprectrum (pale white) to dark brown is only found in Caucasoids.

---

Note how only Caucasoids (Western Eurasians) have the full spectrum of pigmentation (pale white in northern Europe to dark brown in pockets of southern India):



''Caucasoids: Skin is fair in most of Europe, usually darker in Western Asia and India, and becoming almost black in Bengal and southern India.'' (Coon, 1965)
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

---

.

African Population SNP admixture

---

HAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL BEEN TESTED? I DON'T THINK SO! IF SO. PROOOOOVE IT!!!LOOOL

Endogamy and xenophobia play major contributions in the South. Something dorky white idiots like you don't understand.


Try to understand what you speak of, before you propose your crappy theory. So explain to me, what is MIDDLE EASTERN????


Fact is, ancient Egyptians show to cluster closets with people from the South, who came from the Sahara/ Sahel. Arabs came from where?lol

Let me repeat it again for you, dumbo!


Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions


Sonia R. Zakrzewski*


American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 121, Issue 3, pages 219–229, July 2003


Stature and the pattern of body proportions were investigated in a series of six time-successive Egyptian populations in order to investigate the biological effects on human growth of the development and intensification of agriculture, and the formation of state-level social organization. Univariate analyses of variance were performed to assess differences between the sexes and among various time periods. Significant differences were found both in stature and in raw long bone length measurements between the early semipastoral population and the later intensive agricultural population. The size differences were greater in males than in females. This disparity is suggested to be due to greater male response to poor nutrition in the earlier populations, and with the increasing development of social hierarchy, males were being provisioned preferentially over females. Little change in body shape was found through time, suggesting that all body segments were varying in size in response to environmental and social conditions. The change found in body plan is suggested to be the result of the later groups having a more tropical (Nilotic) form than the preceding populations. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2003.


AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 132:501–509 (2007)

Population Continuity or Population Change: Formation of the Ancient Egyptian State

Sonia R. Zakrzewski*

Department of Archaeology, University of Southampton, Highfield, Southampton SO17 1BF, UK


The origins of the ancient Egyptian state and its formation have received much attention through analysis of mortuary contexts, skeletal material, and trade. Genetic diversity was analyzed by studying craniometric variation within a series of six time-successive Egyptian populations in order to investigate the evidence for migration over the period of the development of social hierarchy and the Egyptian state. Craniometric variation, based upon 16 measurements, was assessed through principal components analysis, discriminant function analysis, and Mahalanobis D2 matrix computation. Spatial and temporal relationships were assessed by Mantel and Partial Mantel tests. The results indicate overall population continuity over the Predynastic and early Dynastic, and high levels of genetic heterogeneity, thereby suggesting that state formation occurred as a mainly indigenous process.


Conclusions


The analyses of the crania studied suggest that genetic continuity occurs over the Egyptian Predynastic and EDyn periods. The study also indicates that a relatively high level of genetic differentiation was sustained over this time period. This evidence suggests that the process of state formation itself may have been mainly an indigenous process, but that it may have occurred in association with inmigration to the Abydos region of the Nile Valley. This potential inmigration may have occurred particularly during the EDyn and OK. A possible explanation is that the Egyptian state formed through increasing control of trade and raw materials, or due to military actions, potentially associated with the use of the Nile Valley as a corridor for prolonged small scale movements through the desert environment.

Using Mahalanobis D2 values as a proxy for genetic or phenetic distance, significant genetic distances were found between time period groups and between cemetery groups. No conclusive linear relationship was found from any of the regressions of genetic distance on temporal distance (for the pooled time period groups), genetic distance on temporal distance (controlling for spatial distance), or genetic distance on spatial distance (controlling for time) for the cemetery groups. These results indicate that the biological patterning of the Egyptian population varied across time, but that no simple and consistent temporal or spatial trends could be discerned.


The Badarian is shown to be a genetically homogeneous sample, characterized by short cranial vaults and significant subnasal prognathism. The homogeneity of the Badarian mirrors previous cranial (Stoessiger, 1927; Morant, 1935; Strouhal, 1971; Gaballah et al., 1972) and post- ranial studies (Zakrzewski, 2003). Due to their placement in all sectors of Figure 2, later groups are shown as being more phenotypically heterogeneous. Furthermore, as a result of its long broad vaults and broad faces, the EDyn sample appears morphologically distinct relative to EDyn sample appears morphologically distinct relative to the other temporal groups.

Due to the relatively small sample sizes arising from the fragmentary nature of some of the crania and the lack of skeletal material that cross-cuts all social ranks within each time period, these results must remain provisional and indicative. Further research on recently excavated material, especially from the Delta area, is therefore required in order to further address the issues raised.


http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/12075/1/2007_PopnContinuityChange_AJPA_132pp501-9.pdf
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

---

.

African Population SNP admixture

---

HAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL BEEN TESTED? I DON'T THINK SO! IF SO. PROOOOOVE IT!!!LOOOL

Endogamy and xenophobia play major contributions in the South. Something dorky white idiots like you don't understand.


Try to understand what you speak of, before you propose your crappy theory. So explain to me, what is MIDDLE EASTERN????


Fact is, ancient Egyptians show to cluster closets with people from the South, who came from the Sahara/ Sahel. Arabs came from where?lol

Let me repeat it again for you, dumbo!


Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions


Sonia R. Zakrzewski*


American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 121, Issue 3, pages 219–229, July 2003

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
^It has been argued numerous times that Ancient Egyptian art is not representative, because it tended to focus on the elite rather than commoners, so your shitty excuse makes no sense.

Now, where are these images of whites in congregation, you dumb idiot. Show them like how they appear below, but instead of brown skinned, show groups of white male and female nobles attending ceremonies:





In other words, show authentic non-late period images that have ancient Egyptian male and female nobles colored like this:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

---

You are a dorky lying clown with, multiple accounts. But its OK!


The man I have posted was not associated with the Yayu, WHO HAPPENS TO HAVE CURLY HAIR!!!!!!!!!


LOOK AT IT AGAIN, LYING HOG.







Now tell me junk yard brain, are these the same? LOL





 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
[qb]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

---

.

African Population SNP admixture

---

HAS EVERY INDIVIDUAL BEEN TESTED? I DON'T THINK SO! IF SO. PROOOOOVE IT!!!LOOOL

Endogamy and xenophobia play major contributions in the South. Something dorky white idiots like you don't understand.


Try to understand what you speak of, before you propose your crappy theory. So explain to me, what is MIDDLE EASTERN????


Fact is, ancient Egyptians show to cluster closets with people from the South, who came from the Sahara/ Sahel. Arabs came from where?lol

Let me repeat it again for you, dumbo!


Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions


Sonia R. Zakrzewski*


American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 121, Issue 3, pages 219–229, July 2003

---

Zakrzewski's studies on ancient Egyptians don't apply to the above modern people, try again

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity.
As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.

Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).

---

quote:

---

Looked at by old anthropology as mixed race people

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_lying hog:

quote:

---

Looked at by old anthropology as mixed race people

---

Because they are.

Thin noses and wavy-straight hair did not evolve in the tropical environment. These traits are exogenous to Africa and are Eurasian. So you had Eurasian migrants moving south and after the Bantu expansion, Negroid moving north.

Ethiopians, Somali and so forth are just Caucasoid-Negroid hybrids. Mutts in other words.

You want to claim 'tropical limbs' developed in the tropics only, but then contradict yourself by claiming Eurasian non-tropical traits like thin noses and wavy hair are in situ tropical adaptations as well...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity.

As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.

Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).

---

quote:

---

THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW THEM TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_the lying hog:

quote:

---

THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW THEM TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION!

---

Fail.

What study shows thin noses or wavy-straight hair having evolved in the tropical environment? This suggestion is retarded and defies evolution. The equivilant is saying Scandinavians have afros.

---

I don't know if there is a study, but I know the REGION! AND THEREFORE I KNOW THE CLIMATE IS SUITED FOR THESE TRAITS! But I think Swenet or Zarahan can help you out with this, on a more scientific level.


Therefore you fail!

If what you claim was true, other groups in Asia would not have straight hair, dorky.

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
Alleged massive influx of Europeans and Middle Easterners to give the ancient peoples hair variation did not happen. Such variation was already in place as part of Africa' built in genetic and phenotypic diversity.

As regards diameter, the average diameter of the Semna sample was close to both the Northwest European and East African samples. This again suggests a range of built-in African indigenous variability, and calls into questions various migration theories to the Nile Valley. One study for example (Keita 2005) tested the model of C. Loring Brace (1993) as to the notion of incoming European migrants replacing indigenous peoples of the Nile Valley. Brace's work had also suggested a relationship between northwest Europeans such as Scandanavians and African peoples of the Horn. Data analysis failed to support this model, instead clustering samples much closer to African series than to Europeans. Keita concluded that similarities between African data in his survey (skulls, etc) and non-Africans was not due to gene flow, but a subset of built-in African variability.

Ancient Egyptians cluster much closer to other Egyptians and Nubians. A later study by Brace, (Brace 2005- The questionable contribution..) groups ancient Egyptian populations like the Naqada closer to Nubians and Somalis than European, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern populations, and places various Nubians samples closer to Tanzanian, Dahomeian, and Congoid data points than to Europeans and Middle easterners. The limb proportion studies of Zakrzewski (2003) (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.) showing the tropical body plan of the ancient Egyptians also undercuts theories of inflowing European or near Eastern colonists, or the 'native Europid' model of Strouhal (1971).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I don't know if there is a study, but I know the REGION! AND THEREFORE I KNOW THE CLIMATE IS SUITED FOR THESE TRAITS!

Therefore you fail!

If what you claim was true, other groups in Asia would not have straight hair, dorky.

---

Now you are demonstrating you believe in race, and that the physical variation in Africa is inter-regional (and can be divided up by geographical and enviromental factors)...

Clearly there is no single ''tropical african'' people - so stop using that bogus term.
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_f/lying hog:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I don't know if there is a study, but I know the REGION! AND THEREFORE I KNOW THE CLIMATE IS SUITED FOR THESE TRAITS!

Therefore you fail!

If what you claim was true, other groups in Asia would not have straight hair, dorky.

---

Now you are demonstrating you believe in race, and that the physical variation in Africa is inter-regional (and can be divided up by geographical and enviromental factors)...

Clearly there is no single ''tropical african'' people - so stop using that bogus term.

---

I AM DEMONSTRATING BIODIVERSITY WITHIN A REGION, WHEN PEOPLE SHOW TROPICAL ADAPTED IN LIMBS, CLUSTERING WITH OTHER AFRICANS FROM THE SOUTH! DORKY!!!

THIS "TROPICAL BODY PLAN" OF COURSE IS A MAJOR IMPLICATION TO YOU. It's a valid anthropologic term. And you are a uneducated pseudo, wannabe university student. You have proven this by your pseudo rant.

quote:

---

Morphological characteristics ...like skin color, hair form, bone traits, eyes, and lips tend to follow geographic boundaries coinciding often with climatic zones . This is not surprising since the selective forces of climate are probably the primary forces of nature that have shaped human races with regard not only to skin color and hair form but also the underlying bony structures of the nose, cheekbones, etc. (For example, more prominent noses humidify air better.) As far as we know, blood-factor frequencies are not shaped by these same climatic factors


Gill, George W. Does Race Exist? A Proponent's Perspective. University of Wyoming, 2000

---

quote:

---

Northern Egypt near the Mediterranean shows the same pattern- limb length data puts its peoples closer to tropically adapted Africans that cold climate Europeans

"...sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.

The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."

---

Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60












And descendants, from the same region as where the burials are!





 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

The full pigmentation sprectrum (pale white) to dark brown is only found in Caucasoids.

---

Note how only Caucasoids (Western Eurasians) have the full spectrum of pigmentation (pale white in northern Europe to dark brown in pockets of southern India):



''Caucasoids: Skin is fair in most of Europe, usually darker in Western Asia and India, and becoming almost black in Bengal and southern India.'' (Coon, 1965)

---

I am not interested in your outdated eugenics anthropology.


The Aryan Invasion Theory is False - Genetic Evidence


No trace of “demographic disruption” in the North-West of the subcontinent between 4500 and 800 BCE; this negates the possibility of any massive intrusion, by so-called Indo-Aryans or other populations, during that period.

Deep late Pleistocene genetic link between contemporary Europeans and Indians, provided by the mtDNA haplogroup U, which encompasses roughly a fifth of mtDNA lineages of both populations. Our estimate for this split [between Europeans and Indians] is close to the suggested time for the peopling of Asia and the first expansion of anatomically modern humans in Eurasia and likely pre-dates their spread to Europe.”

Haplogroup U, being common to North Indian and “Caucasoid” populations, was found in tribes of eastern India such as the Lodhas and Santals, which would not be the case if it had been introduced through Indo-Aryans. Such is also the case of the haplogroup M, another marker frequently mentioned in the early literature as evidence of an invasion: in reality, haplogroup M occurs with a high frequency, averaging about 60%, across most Indian population groups, irrespective of geographical location of habitat. Tribal populations have higher frequencies of haplogroup M than caste populations.”

- U.S. anthropologists Kenneth Kennedy, John Lukacs and Brian Hemphill.

Migrations into India “did occur, but rarely from western Eurasian populations.” There are low frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’ — that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.

- U.S. biological anthropologist Todd R. Disotell.

There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.

- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups.

mtDNA haplogroup “M” common to India (with a frequency of 60%), Central and Eastern Asia (40% on average), and even to American Indians; however, this frequency drops to 0.6% in Europe, which is “inconsistent with the ‘general Caucasoidness’ of Indians.” This shows, once again, that “the Indian maternal gene pool has come largely through an autochthonous history since the Late Pleistocene.” U haplogroup frequency 13% in India, almost 14% in North-West Africa, and 24% from Europe to Anatolia. “Indian and western Eurasian haplogroup U varieties differ profoundly; the split has occurred about as early as the split between the Indian and eastern Asian haplogroup M varieties. The data show that both M and U exhibited an expansion phase some 50,000 years ago, which should have happened after the corresponding splits.” In other words, there is a genetic connection between India and Europe, but a far more ancient one than was thought.

If one were to extend methodology used to suggest an Aryan invasion based on Y-Dna statistics to populations of Eastern and Southern India, one would be led to an exactly opposite result: “the straightforward suggestion would be that both Neolithic (agriculture) and Indo-European languages arose in India and from there, spread to Europe.” The authors do not defend this thesis, but simply guard against “misleading interpretations” based on limited samples and faulty methodology.

The Chenchu tribe is genetically close to several castes, there is a “lack of clear distinction between Indian castes and tribes.

- Twenty authors headed by Kivisild - Archaeogenetics of Europe - 2000.

“Language families present today in India, such as Indo-European, Dravidic and Austro-Asiatic, are all much younger than the majority of indigenous mtDNA lineages found among their present-day speakers at high frequencies. It would make it highly speculative to infer, from the extant mtDNA pools of their speakers, whether one of the linguistically defined groups in India should be considered more ‘autochthonous’ than any other in respect of its presence in the subcontinent.”

- Mait Metspalu and fifteen co-authors analyzing 796 Indian and 436 Iranian mtDNAs. 2001.

Geneticist Toomas Kivisild led a study (2003) in which comparisons of the diversity of R1a1 (R-M17) haplogroup in Indian, Pakistani, Iranian, Central Asian, Czech and Estonian populations. The study showed that the diversity of R1a1 in India, Pakistan, and Iran, is higher than in Czechs (40%), and Estonians[12].

Kivisild came to the conclusion that "southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup": "Haplogroup R1a, previously associated with the putative Indo-Aryan invasion, was found at its highest frequency in Punjab but also at a relatively high frequency (26%) in the Chenchu tribe. This finding, together with the higher R1a-associated short tandem repeat diversity in India and Iran compared with Europe and central Asia, suggests that southern and western Asia might be the source of this haplogroup".[12]

“Given the geographic spread and STR diversities of sister clades R1 and R2, the latter of which is restricted to India, Pakistan, Iran, and southern central Asia, it is possible that southern and western Asia were the source for R1 and R1a differentiation.”

- Kivilsid - 2003


Based on 728 samples covering 36 Indian populations, it announced in its very title how its findings revealed a “Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists,” i.e. of the Indo-Aryans, and stated its general agreement with the previous study. For instance, the authors rejected the identification of some Y-DNA genetic markers with an “Indo-European expansion,” an identification they called “convenient but incorrect ... overly simplistic.” To them, the subcontinent’s genetic landscape was formed much earlier than the dates proposed for an Indo-Aryan immigration: “The influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. ... There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that Central Asia has been necessarily the recent donor and not the receptor of the R1a lineages.”

“Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus....” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”

The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time or co-habited, although more research is needed. R2 is very rare in Europe.

Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill. - 2006.


“The sharing of some Y-chromosomal haplogroups between Indian and Central Asian populations is most parsimoniously explained by a deep, common ancestry between the two regions, with diffusion of some Indian-specific lineages northward.”

“The Y-chromosomal data consistently suggest a largely South Asian origin for Indian caste communities and therefore argue against any major influx, from regions north and west of India, of people associated either with the development of agriculture or the spread of the Indo-Aryan language family.”

“Southern castes and tribals are very similar to each other in their Y-chromosomal haplogroup compositions.” As a result, “it was not possible to confirm any of the purported differentiations between the caste and tribal pools,” a conclusion that directly clashes with the Aryan invasion theory which purports that male European Aryans chased tribal adivasis and aboriginals down south.

Sanghamitra Sahoo, T. Kivisild and V. K. Kashyap. - 2006.


When Homo sapiens migrated out of Africa, he first reached South-West Asia around 75,000 BP, and from here, went on to other parts of the world. In simple terms, except for Africans, all humans have ancestors in the North-West of the Indian peninsula. In particular, one migration started around 50,000 BP towards the Middle East and Western Europe: “indeed, nearly all Europeans — and by extension, many Americans — can trace their ancestors to only four mtDNA lines, which appeared between 10,000 and 50,000 years ago and originated from South Asia.”

-Lluís Quintana-Murci,Vincent Macaulay,Stephen Oppenheimer,Michael Petraglia,and their associates

“For me and for Toomas Kivisild, South Asia is logically the ultimate origin of M17(Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a, associated with the male Aryan invasion theory) and his ancestors; and sure enough we find the highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 is not only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia, but diversity characterizes its presence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as a marker of a ‘male Aryan invasion’ of India. One average estimate for the origin of this line in India is as much as 51,000 years. All this suggests that M17 could have found his way initially from India or Pakistan, through Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming into Europe.”

-Stephen Oppenheimer

A (2009) study headed by geneticist Swarkar Sharma, collated information for 2809 Indians (681 Brahmins, and 2128 tribals and schedule castes). The results showed "no consistent pattern of the exclusive presence and distribution of Y-haplogroups to distinguish the higher-most caste, Brahmins, from the lower-most ones, schedule castes and tribals". Brahmins from West Bengal showed the highest frequency (72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* hinting that it may have been a founder lineage for this caste group. The authors found it significant that the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh had not only 28.07% R1a1, but also 22.8% R1a*, out of 57 people, with such a high percentage of R1a* never having been found before. Based on STR variance the estimated age of R1a* in India was 18,478 years, and for R1a1 it was 13,768 years.

In its conclusions the study proposed "the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins" as well as "the origin of R1a1* ... in the Indian subcontinent".

S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe.
- Sharma et al 2009

"This paper rewrites history... there is no north-south divide."
"There is no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory as they came hundreds or thousands of years after the ancestral north and south Indians had settled in India."

The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. "The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society."

"Impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different."
The present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).

"The initial settlement took place 65,000 years ago in the Andamans and in ancient south India around the same time, which led to population growth in this part,'' said Thangarajan. He added, "At a later stage, 40,000 years ago, the ancient north Indians emerged which in turn led to rise in numbers here. But at some point of time, the ancient north and the ancient south mixed, giving birth to a different set of population. And that is the population which exists now and there is a genetic relationship between the population within India."

The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. Singh said that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.

The researchers, who are now keen on exploring whether Eurasians descended from ANI, find in their study that ANIs are related to western Eurasians, while the ASIs do not share any similarity with any other population across the world.
Thangaraj and Singh at a press conference.

"Reconstructing Indian Population History"
- David Reich, Kumarasamy Thangaraj, Nick Patterson, Alkes L. Price & Lalji Singh
- 2009






Ann Hum Genet. 2009 May;73(Pt 3):314-34. Epub 2009 Apr 15.

Inter- and extra-Indian admixture and genetic diversity in reunion island revealed by analysis of mitochondrial DNA.
Dubut V, Murail P, Pech N, Thionville MD, Cartault F.

Source

Université Bordeaux 1, CNRS, UMR 5199 - PACEA, Laboratoire d'Anthropologie des Populations du Passé, Talence, France. vincent.dubut@univ-provence.fr

Abstract

Reunion Island is a French territory located in the western Indian Ocean. The genetic pattern of the Reunionese population has been shaped by contributions from highly contrasting regions of the world. Over the last 350 years, several migration waves and cultural and socio-economic factors have led to the emergence of six main ethnic groups in Reunion. India is one of the principal regions that contributed to the setting up of the Reunionese population. Diversity, demographic and admixture analyses were performed on mtDNA variation of the Reunionese of Indian ancestry, including the Malbar and Zarab ethnic groups, in order to question their history. Using a phylogeographical approach, we generated and analysed quantitative data on the contribution of the Indian parental populations. Furthermore, we showed that the settlement of Reunion Island by Indians did not involve a founder effect, except in the very beginning of the Reunionese settlement (at the end of the 17(th) century). The accuracy of our results was optimised by a re-evaluation of the classification of the Southern Asian mtDNA haplogroups. Finally, by comparing our results to a previous study dealing with the Reunionese population, we highlighted how ethno-historical data are critical for reconstructing the complex history of multiethnic populations.

quote:

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?

---

quote:

---

Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69).

The painting shows her ''bright yellow hair, striped horizontally with red'' (Wainright, 1938, p. 42). Upon discovery she became known to Egyptologists as the ''fair haired daughter of Cheops'' (Reisner, ''The Tomb of Meresankh...'', Bulletin of the Museum of Fine Arts, Vol. 25, No. 151, 1927, p. 66). She is also regarded as the earliest depicted blonde in ancient Egyptian art (Art and Archaeology, AIA, 1927, Vol. 24, pp. 191-193; Coon, Races of Europe, 1939, p. 98). Her grand-daughter, of Dynasty V, is also found in art depicted as a blonde (Wainright, 1938, p. 42 cf. Scharff, OLZ, 1928, col. 80).

---

For other sources see Karl Earlson's article 'Nordic Egypt', followed by 'Redheaded Pharaoh Ramesses II' -

http://www.squidoo.com/nationalist-page
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 


Anwar Sadat's father, Anwar Mohammed El Sadat,
was an Egyptian, and his mother,
Sit Al-Berain was born in Egypt to a Sudanese father and Egyptian mother.

African Population SNP admixture .


.
ANWAR, frizzy medium-short strands



YUYA, long non-frizzy strands

 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?

---

My essay discusses several known examples.

---

You cannot infer from a phucking picture whether a golden haired person has any association with Europeans, let alone, a ''Nordid'', you phucking buffoon. Even if its really blond hair, Europeans aren't the only Eurasians with blond hair.

So, if we're dealing with a Nordid elite, where are the Nordid males?

Hetepheres' spouse:


Hetepheres' father:


Where are the Nordid males in this family?
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

[QUOTE]Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69).

---

Assuming that Hetepheres II was blonde haired, you have found one piece of art of a royal person showing hair or a wig of blond color.

The fact that we could post hundreds of black haired ancient Egyptian royals shows that what your are claiming is an extremely rare exception at best when it comes to ancient Egyptian royalty prior to the late period.
Therefore your argument for Nordic Egypt is extremly weak in context


^^^and here we see Hetepheres "hair" is not even that yellow, compare to the object at the upper right
and as Sweetnet says what is that dark male doing there, did he forget he was Nordic?
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:


Anwar Sadat's father, Anwar Mohammed El Sadat,
was an Egyptian, and his mother,
Sit Al-Berain was born in Egypt to a Sudanese father and Egyptian mother.

African Population SNP admixture .


.
ANWAR, frizzy medium-short strands



YUYA, long non-frizzy strands

---

YES, THAT IS TRUE!LOOL

This was exceptional and is unusual. You probably don't know that there are people in the North of Egypt with kinky Afro-texture hair.

So your rant is baseless as usually. Due to lack of knowledge on the continent, impostor black woman.





You fell for the trap, you junk yard brain!



Overall, these studies can be interpreted as suggesting that the Egyptian Nile Valley's indigenous population had a craniofacial pattern that evolved and emerged in northeastern Africa, whose geography in relationship to climate largely explains the variation.


semi-tropical/arid tropic zones, show clear limb proportion characteristics of tropically adapted people, and MORE closely resemble other tropically adapted Africans on the continent, than Europeans or Middle Easterners. (Raxter and Ruff 2008, Zakrewski 2003, 2007; Holliday et al, 2003, Kemp, 2005) 3) Undermining claims of cold-climate or skin color primacy for civilization, the great ancient Nile Valley civilization arose from the 'darker' more tropical south, NOT the cold climate or cool climate Mediterranean, Europe or Asia. (Clark, 1982; Shaw 1976, 2003; Bard, 2004; Vogel, 1997; Kemp 2005)


African peoples are the most diverse in the world whether analyzed by DNA or skeletal or cranial methods. The peoples of the Nile Valley vary but they are still related. The people most related ethnically to the ancient Egyptians are other Africans like Nubians not cold-climate/light skinned Europeans or Asiatics. (Keita 1996; Rethelford, 2001; Bianchi 2004, Yurco 1989; Godde 2009)



You still haven't explained what is genetically so middle eastern about Egyptians,I am still waiting...?
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

ANWAR, frizzy medium-short strands



YUYA, long non-frizzy strands

YES, THAT IS TRUE!LOOL

This was exceptional and is unusual. You probably don't know that there are people in the North of Egypt with Afro texture hair.


You still haven't explained what is genetically so middle eastern about Egyptians,I am still waiting...?

---

I'm not clear exactly on what you are calling exceptional and unusual




anyway here is my husband when he had a bigger fro back in the day.
yet his momma was white

but if you made a sculpture of him you couldn't tell he was half white
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

ANWAR, frizzy medium-short strands



YUYA, long non-frizzy strands

YES, THAT IS TRUE!LOOL

This was exceptional and is unusual. You probably don't know that there are people in the North of Egypt with Afro texture hair.


You still haven't explained what is genetically so middle eastern about Egyptians,I am still waiting...?

---

I'm not clear exactly on what you are calling exceptional and unusual




anyway here is my husband when he had a bigger fro back in the day.
yet his momma was white

but if you made a sculpture of him you couldn't tell he was half white

---

LOL THIS EXPOSES YOU ONCE MORE ON THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE! IT'S FUNNY!

Your husband? lol Unless you claim to be Michelle Obama.

I btw, have posted that there are North Egyptians with Afro-texture hair.


Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern?
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I btw, have posted that there are North Egyptians with Afro-texture hair.

---

so what, I know that some people who live in Egypt have Afro-texture hair.

.


posting children is weak, no more little kids please

Serbian kid

even white people have black noses when they are young kids.



^^^show me a full grown black man in Africa with this type of hair


.
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
I btw, have posted that there are North Egyptians with Afro-texture hair.

---

so what, I know that some people who live in Egypt have Afro-texture hair.

.


posting children is weak, no more little kids please

Serbian kid

even white people have black noses when they are young kids.



^^^show me a full grown black man in Africa with this type of hair


.

---

Another dumb rant by you. If the boy grows older what will his hair be like? DUMBASS!!!!! And most likely, you will not find grown men with hair like that, going fagetoschios. Plus African hair curls, like the 18'th Dynasty Yuya's hair curls.







You know about Afro-texture hair in North Egypt because we showed this to you. Delusional clown!








Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern?????????????????????
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_F/Lying hog:

[QUOTE]Based on an ancient wall painting in the Tomb of Meresankh (G7350) which dates to the Old Kingdom, 26th century BC (Dynasty IV) we know Hetepheres II was blonde haired (cf. Illustr. London News, 9 July, 1927, p. 69).

---

Assuming that Hetepheres II was blonde haired, you have found one piece of art of a royal person showing hair or a wig of blond color.

The fact that we could post hundreds of black haired ancient Egyptian royals shows that what your are claiming is an extremely rare exception at best when it comes to ancient Egyptian royalty prior to the late period.
Therefore your argument for Nordic Egypt is extremly weak in context


^^^and here we see Hetepheres "hair" is not even that yellow, compare to the object at the upper right
and as Sweetnet says what is that dark male doing there, did he forget he was Nordic?

---

Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262


As Brothwell and Spearman (‘63) point out, reddish-brown ancient hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. This color was seen in a large proportion of the Semna sample, and also noted by Titlbachova and Titlbach (‘77) on Egyptian material, where it also may have resulted from the mummification process. However, the large number of blond hairs that are not associated with the cuticular damage that bleaching produces, probably points to a significantly lighter-haired population than is now present in the Nubian region. Brothwell and Spearman (’63) noted genuinely blond ancient Egyptian samples using reflectance spectrophotometry. Blondism, especially in young children, is common in many darkhaired populations (e.g., Australian, Melanesian), and is still found in some Nubian villages (J. Zabkar, personal communication).


Only one sample (M197) showed cuticular damage and irregularities definitely consistent with bleaching, although bleaching could not be ruled out in some of the blond samples.


pdf file





Women in ancient Egypt




The Cambridge ancient history, Volumes 1-3


In the early 20th century much was made over the ancestry of Hetepheres II. A relief from the tomb of her daughter, Meresankh III, depicts the queen with blonde hair.


However, closer inspection reveals that she was not a natural blonde, but rather the owner of a unique and, we can speculate, much coveted blonde wig.




Limestone statue of Hetep-Heres II (mother) and Meres-Ankh III (daughter) from their tomb G 7530-7540 at Giza, dating to the 4th Dynasty. Paired statues of mother and daughters are common (but less so that husband and wife pairs). Queen Hetep-Heres was a daughter of King Khufu and was married to Prince Kawab. Meres-Ankh is known to have died before her mother and was married to King Khafra (builder of the second great pyramid at Giza) and the statue was a gift from her mother.


Khufu,








Kawab,





 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:



Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern????????????????????? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:



Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern?????????????????????

---

they are often charcterized by the presence of Y chromosome Haplogoup J believed to have originated in the Near East or Caucus [/QB]

---

Really, so this is the main component in Egyptians, to what frequency and where specially? Btw J* what? lol

When did did this, Hg J, evolve?
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:


^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot:

Note how only Caucasoids (Western Eurasians) have the full spectrum of pigmentation (pale white in northern Europe to dark brown in pockets of southern India):



''Caucasoids: Skin is fair in most of Europe, usually darker in Western Asia and India, and becoming almost black in Bengal and southern India.'' (Coon, 1965)

---

So southern Indians are Caucasians too and their complexions which according to the map above are the same as most Sub-Saharans are actually continuous with northern Europeans??! LMAO

Another nasty tale of a lie!

Lie, lie, lie. That's all these trolls ever do! Yet we even bother to shoot down and refute such absurd fibs.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:



Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern?????????????????????

---

they are often charcterized by the presence of Y chromosome Haplogoup J believed to have originated in the Near East or Caucus

---

Really, so this is the main component in Egyptians, to what frequency and where specially? Btw J* what? lol

When did did this, Hg J, evolve? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:



Now, when are you going to post what makes Egyptians genetically middle eastern?????????????????????

---

they are often charcterized by the presence of Y chromosome Haplogoup J believed to have originated in the Near East or Caucus

---

Really, so this is the main component in Egyptians, to what frequency and where specially? Btw J* what? lol

When did did this, Hg J, evolve?

---

I can't custom school you on everything

if you want to learm more about the genetics of the Middle East, this wikipedia entry is pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeogenetics_of_the_Near_East

Archaeogenetics of the Near East

___________________________________

^^^^ you will be tested on this, so do your homework

lioness scholastic services [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.

quote:

---

Originally posted my master:


^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something

---

Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL

---

there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin

Turk





Thai



Kazanlak Bulgarian


Indian


Sicilian


______________________________________

now you can claim, with your true negro concepts (when you use "negro" in quotes) that Africans must be some particular "chocolate" shade of your liking but the point is any one of the above men could be a match for an Egyptian skin complexion

tell Nigerian actor Chidi Mokeme he's not "chocolate" enough


the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:


WIKI?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.

quote:

---

Originally posted my master:


^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something

---

Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL

---

there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin

Turk





Thai



Kazanlak Bulgarian


Indian


Sicilian


______________________________________

now you can claim, with your true negro concepts (when you use "negro" in quotes) that Africans must be some particular "chocolate" shade of your liking but the point is any one of the above men could be a match for an Egyptian skin complexion

tell Nigerian actor Chidi Mokeme he's not "chocolate" enough


the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this

---

Yes, I patty your head off again. Isn't it ironic everywhere else a variety of color complexion can occur, in your small brain. But When it comes to Africa it can't, in your small brain. Even though people have lived in complete different environments for thousands of years. You are so damn dumb, it's
pathetic.







Funny how you will post anyone but SOUTH EGYPTIANS. YOU HAVE THE HEART OF A DEMON!!!!!


I don't know what a Turk, Indian, Kazanlak Bulgarian, Thai
has to do with this...Since,..they don't comprise with ancient Egyptians or tropical African limb portions!


The nubian mesolithic: A consideration of the Wadi Halfa remains


This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.

A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis.

Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.


From about 20,000 BCE, there are further refinements in stone technology. Very specialized tools appeared, including arrowheads, fishhooks, grindstones, and awls. These most refined of stone implements have the generic name 'microlithic.' This era of the late Paleolithic also saw the development of complex composite tools such as bows and arrows. As well, fishing equipment, including boats, and even pottery appeared in some environmental niches. As tools became more specialized and finely made, local variations, including stylistic ones, became more and more the rule...

From the standpoint of African history the most important development of the late Stone Age was the emergence of more settled ('sedentary') societies. These probably developed first along the banks of the Upper Nile in the Cataracts region, in modern day southern Egypt and northern Sudan (ancient Nubia). Evidence of barley harvesting there dates from as early as 16,000 BCE. The ability to make greater use of abundant wild grains, probably coupled with greater exploitation of aquatic resources, led to a more settled existence for some people. These more sedentary peoples were a part of what is now known collectively as the African Aquatic Culture/ Tradition. This way of life spread from the Upper Nile into a much larger area of Africa during the last great wet phase of African climate history, which began about 9,000 and peaked about 7,000 BCE. The higher rainfall levels of the period created numerous very large shallow lakes across what are now the arid southern borderlands of the Sahara desert. Inhabitants of shore communities crafted microlithic tools to exploit a marine environment: fishing and trapping aquatic animals. This provided abundant food supplies, particularly high in protein and supported the earliest known permanent settlements. Culturally and linguistically related peoples ancestral to modern Black Africans established settlements throughout this vast, ancient great lakes area. It is theorized that they spoke the mother Nilo-Saharan tongue. Sophisticated water-related technologies supported not only the development of settled communities, but also the invention of things like pottery, which were formerly thought to be associated exclusively with the Food Production Revolution of the later New Stone Age, or Neolithic. While the African aquatic tradition itself lasted only until the beginning of the modern drier period, around 3,000 BCE, its legacy has been felt ever since.

Basil Davidson, Africa in History (1975)
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:


WIKI?

---

wikipedia has many excellent entries

the also have some with incorrect information

before recommendations
lioness scholastic service personel carefully review the wikipedia information to make sure it is suitible for students

wikipedia is often an excellent first step in research and is verified for accuracy with further references in accredited books


lioness productions scholastic services 2012

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LMAO @ you intelligent folk playing chase the trolls by their nasty tales.

quote:

---

Originally posted my master:


^^^^^ well how about Sennefer? Sennefer has the same chocolate complexion that many Africans, Palestinians, Indians, Peruvians, Southern Europeans, Turks etc, etc have. So it doesn't prove something

---

Southern Europeans and Turks have chocolate complexions??!! That's a nasty lie of a tale if I heard one! LOL

---

there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin

Turk





Thai



Kazanlak Bulgarian


Indian


Sicilian


______________________________________

now you can claim, with your true negro concepts (when you use "negro" in quotes) that Africans must be some particular "chocolate" shade of your liking but the point is any one of the above men could be a match for an Egyptian skin complexion

tell Nigerian actor Chidi Mokeme he's not "chocolate" enough


the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this

---

Wipeout!!!!


 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Troll, have you learned nothing? All the above people are "packed with melanin"
 

---

Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
After taking an break from ES, I see we are in the middle of an war for the mind of the posters and showing them the TRUTH about Africa and Africans, Gods people created 1st.

There is hope out there for people who struggle, and defend the TRUTH. It may get bleak sometimes, but as long as we trod ahead for the greater good We are doing what We as an human race caqn accomplish under the guidance and support of God.

FACTS: 1. Blacks(African, Indians) Are the oldest people. 2. The Afro Hair of Africans, is an living Hair that certain haters of Themselves put chemicles in to "kill" the hair, so it could hang Limp and Dead like majority if people in this worthless world. 3. The Features of Africans are as beauiful as any others(Think lips, Beautiful Color etc). 4. There is an real reason why The KILLuminati freemasons want to weaken the Black race. Control the Blacks you basically control the people that have overcome the most and have stood in the way of evil cults and corrupting beleafs. Blacks must stay strong through these tough times and know the will be heck to pay for those who brainwash our children. Why do you think Freedom Fighters from America and Caribbean and Africa were able to fight for the rights of the peoole and others. Leadership is an quality that many Blacks are blessed with for being the 1st people created. Look around the world. Human race needs to return to True Followers of God soldiers of Christ. Even then, It's not man that decides who gets the blessing, ONLY GOD. Remember the story of Paul and how he persecuted the church and had many Christians killed. God spoke to him in an vision and his life was transformed to one of the Greatest leaders of Christian faith. So people God uses Blacks, Whites etc to further his purpose regardless of there background.

Another thing I HATE, Is that Indians(Who are Black) like to make claims about Africans and put them down and act like they are better then Africans. Indians are the most brainwashed Blacks who aspire to look like there oppressors thats why they Bleach there skin in India, Pakistan etc. One thing Indians must Understand is that they Are Africans younger brothers. Why Indians who look down on Africans, like to live with Africans wherever Africans are. Africans go to the Caribbean, Here comes Indians. Africans go to Africa, Here comes Indians. You never see Africans beating down the doors of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka to live with Indians, Yet Indians Follow Africans Everywere they Go. Indians must break free from the shacles of Self Hate, where they put EUropean features on an pedastal and try desperatly to conform to it.

The Good thing is Africans welcomes others to live and prosper with them. Look at the Chinese in Nigeria, They are over 50, 000 and the don't get attacked or targeted only some ignorant Indians in Uganda were kicked out of Africa because they were basically trying to take over the country basically(could be wrong). Even then though, that happened in one country in Africa. Look at Kenya, South Africa, zimbabwe. They have Indians from around The Indian subcontinet living in peace and realizing they are also Black.

Sadly In White Countries like Canada, US etc, The Sometimes cowardly Indians will have no qualms of hating and insulting Africans. It seems when the reach the west with Africans, they are quick to side with the Whites and bascically ISH on Africans. I have neighbours in my city Indians, Who say things without even thinking say stuff like "Blacks" should go back to the jungles and that They are scared Blacks will rob them(These Indians seem to think they have pink skin like whites Bahahahah) Thats how pathetic some Indians are when it comes to there own people. The greatest traite an man can show is forgivness in the face if Hate. Blacks Forgive Indians, Thats why they are still INdians All around East and South Africa and also in countries like senegal etc. WHen the Unity of The Black man, Evolved(Equal ethincites speaking) White man etc happens then we won't get attacked for catching Rain Water for our people(YES PEOPLE BELIEVE IT, AN MAN WAS ARESSTED FOR CATCHING WATER IN AN HOLE TO DRINK AND FOR HIS CROPS, OREGON ELITES CLAIM THEY AND THEY ALONE CONTROL THE WATER FROM THE CLOUDS)

To Finish let me finish by saying I see many People Black, White, Arab, Iranian, Saudi, growing Afros. Don't stop, Afros mean you have HAIR THAT STANDS AT attention. Soldier Hair. All people who have rge ability to grow Fros, Don't let this worthless world fool you into thinking it ugly. Cassi makes me laugh beacause Afros, Slanted Eyes(Asians) are some of the most beautiful traits you can have, Yet Women listen to an world where majority of Euros had dead hair that hangs limp to there scalp. Asians think there eyes are ugly and have surgery to make them big. Asians really don't have the Body of Black ANd White women Latin etc. WHat they do have is Beautiful eyes and thick lips. Be happy how God made you and don't forget we are One Community and One Blood.

Peace
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Troll, have you learned nothing? All the above people are "packed with melanin"

---

Wipeout,



 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^I would not worry too much about Indians. A look
at their sub-continent reveals unimpressive "role models"
qualified to lecture any other group.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------




Egyptian ANtiquities Boss Zahi Hawass- Interview 2010- denies any connection between dynastic Egypt and African cultures:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/3chapter5.shtml


Hawass: I believe that those people settled in the Nile Valley since the old Stone Age, more than 100,000 B.C. and they settled by the Nile. Those people when they went to the desert to hunt animals and to make their own tools and to invent fire and they really always come to the Nile. Then they looked at the Nile and they used this source to make their civilization. And if you look at their religious belief it's unique. From the predynastic period they found out for a king to become a God he has to do certain things in his life: build a tomb, temples for the worship of the Gods, smiting the enemies of Egypt, unification of the two lands, giving offering to the Gods; if you do that you will become a God. And therefore I say all the time that pyramids built Egypt. Because building the tombs made the Egyptians to create technology and astronomy and architecture.


then he contradicts himself:

Hawass: I really do not believe that Egypt is an African civilization. I believe that Egyptian civilization was unique. Egypt is in Africa but Egyptian civilization has nothing to do with the African cultures. Because of many, many, many features if you look at the Pharonic period it's completely different from anything. If you look at the production or the technology that the Egyptians left it's completely different from any belief at any time. If you look at the Egyptian from the Anthropological point of view they are different from the African. And this is why I believe that Pharonic Egypt is completely unique, they have no connection with the African..


SO let's see.. they have no connection with African
cultures, yet they somehow came from "somewhere" and
"settled in the Nile Valley" with tools, and cultural practices of the surrounding areas..
Yet they have "no connection".. Nice.. And this guy
is supposed to have a PhD?




And here is what credible scientists have to say about "those people":

QUOTE(s):
Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed.
Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian
Religion" , pg 506-508

"A large number of gods go back to
prehistoric times. The images of a cow
and star goddess (Hathor), the falcon
(Horus), and the human-shaped figures
of the fertility god (Min) can be traced
back to that period. Some rites, such as
the "running of the Apil-bull," the
"hoeing of the ground," and other
fertility and hunting rites (e.g., the
hippopotamus hunt) presumably date
from early times.. Connections with the
religions in southwest Asia cannot be
traced with certainty."
"It is doubtful whether Osiris can be
regarded as equal to Tammuz or Adonis,
or whether Hathor is related to the
"Great Mother." There are closer
relations with northeast African religions.
The numerous animal cults (especially
bovine cults and panther gods) and
details of ritual dresses (animal tails,
masks, grass aprons, etc) probably are of
African origin. The kinship in particular
shows some African elements, such as
the king as the head ritualist (i.e.,
medicine man), the limitations and
renewal of the reign (jubilees, regicide),
and the position of the king's mother (a
matriarchal element). Some of them can
be found among the Ethiopians in Napata
and Meroe, others among the Prenilotic
tribes (Shilluk)."
(Encyclopedia Britannica 1984 ed.
Macropedia Article, Vol 6: "Egyptian
Religion" , pg 506-508)


Hypocrisy of Eurocentrists and Egyptian racists


Egyptian dynastic civilization based
from the 'darker' south (Upper Egypt)
not the north (Lower Egypt)

QUOTE(s):
"While not attempting to underestimate
the contribution that Deltaic political and
religious institutions made to those of a
united Egypt, many Egyptologists now
discount the idea that a united prehistoric
kingdom of Lower Egypt ever existed."


"While communities such as Ma'adi
appear to have played an important role
in entrepots through which goods and
ideas form south-west Asia filtered into
the Nile Valley in later prehistoric times,
the main cultural and political tradition
that gave rise to the cultural pattern of
Early Dynastic Egypt is to be found not
in the north but in the south.":
--The Cambridge History of Africa:
Volume 1, From the Earliest Times to c.
500 BC, (Cambridge University Press:
1982), Edited by J. Desmond Clark pp.
500-509

"..the early cultures of Merimde, the
Fayum, Badari Naqada I and II are
essentially African and early African
social customs and religious beliefs were
the root and foundation of the ancient
Egyptian way of life." (Source: Shaw,
---Thurston (1976) Changes in African
Archaeology in the Last Forty Years in
African Studies since 1945. p. 156-68.
London.)




Egyptian state founded from the
south, and indigenous in character.
Egyptians dominated Palestine in some
eras.

"What is truly unique about this state is
the integration of rule over an extensive
geographic region, in contrast to other
contemporaneous Near Easter polities in
Nubia, Mesopotamia, Palestine and the
Levant. Present evidence suggests that
the state which emerged by the First
Dynasty had its roots in the Nagada
culture of Upper Egypt, where grave
types, pottery and artifacts demonstrate
an evolution of form from the
Predynastic to the First Dynasty, This
cannot be demonstrated for the material
culture of Lower Egypt, which was
eventually displaced by that which
originated in Upper Egypt. Hierarchical
society with much social and economic
differentiation, as symbolized in the
Nagada II cemeteries of Upper Egypt,
does not seem to have been present,
then, in Lower Egypt, a fact which
supports an Upper Egyptian origin for
the unified state. Thus archaeological
evidence cannot support earlier theories
that the founders of Egyptian civilization
were an invading Dynastic race from the
east.."

"Egyptian contact in the 4th millennium
B.C. with SW Asia is undeniable, but the
effect of this contact on state formation
is Egypt is less clear... The unified state
which emerged in Egypt in the 3rd
millenium B.C. however, was unlike the
polities in Mesopotamia, the Levant,
northern Syria, or Early Bronze Age
Palestine- in sociopolitical organization,
material culture, and belief system. There
was undoubtedly heightened commercial
contact with SW Asia in the 4th
millennium B.C., but the Early Dynastic
state which emerged in Egypt is unique
and religious in character."
(Bard, Kathryn A. 1994 The Egyptian
Predynastic: A Review of the Evidence.
Journal of Field Archaeology
21(3):265-288.)

"From Petrie onwards, it was regularly
suggested that despite the evidence of
Predynastic cultures, Egyptian
civilization of the 1st Dynasty appeared
suddenly and must therefore have been
introduced by an invading foreign 'race'.
Since the 1970s however, excavations at
Abydos and Hierakonpolis have clearly
demonstrated the indigenous, Upper
Egyptian roots of early civilization in
Egypt.

Contact between northern Egypt and
Palestine was overland, as evidence in
northern Sinai demonstrates.. Israeli
archealogists suggest that this evidence
represents a commercial network
established and controlled by the
Egyptians as early as EBA Ia, and that
this network was a major factor in the
rise of the urban settlements found later
in Palestine EBA II. Naomi Porat's
technological study of ceramics from
EBA sites in southern Palestine clearly
demonstrates that in EBA Ib strata many
of the pottery vessels used for food
preparation were probably manufactured
by Egyptian potters using Egyptian
technology but local Palestinian clays. In
EBA Ib strata there are also many
storage jars made from Nile silt and marl
wares, which must have been imported
from Egypt. Not only did the Egyptians
establish camps and way stations in
northern Sinai, but the ceramic evidence
also suggests that they established a
highly organized network of settlements
in southern Palestine where an Egyptian
population was in residence."
--(Ian Shaw ed. (2003) The Oxford
History of Ancient Egypt By Ian Shaw.
Oxford University Press, page 40-63)



Much older scholarship shows cultural
similarities between ancient Egypt and
the rest of Africa, contradicting claims of
Middle Eastern inspiration.

--Specific central African tool designs
found at the well known Naqada, Badari
and Fayum archaeological sites in Egypt
(de Heinzelin 1962, Arkell and Ucko,
1956 et al). Shaw (1976) states that "the
early cultures of Merimde, the Fayum,
Badari Naqada I and II are essentially
African and early African social customs
and religious beliefs were the root and
foundation of the ancient Egyptian way
of life."

-Pottery evidence first seen in the Saharan
Highlands then spreading to the Nile
Valley (Flight 1973).

-Art motifs of Saharan rock paintings
showing similarities to those in pharaonic
art. A number of scholars suggest that
these earlier artistic styles influenced
later pharaonic art via Saharans leaving
drier areas and moving into the Nile
Valley taking their art styles with them
(Mori 1964, Blanc 1964, et al)

--Earlier pioneering mummification
outside Egypt. The oldest mummy in
Africa is of a black Saharan child
(Donadoni 1964, Blanc 1964) Frankfort
(1956) suggests that it is thus possible to
understand the pharaonic worldview by
reference to the religious beliefs of these
earlier African precursors. Attempts to
suggest the root of such practices are
due to Caucasoid civilizers from
elsewhere are thus contradicted by the
data on the ground.

--Several cultural practices of Egypt
show strong similarities to an African
totemic clan base. Childe (1969, 1978),
Aldred (1978) and Strouhal (1971)
demonstrate linkages with several
African practices such as divine kingship
and the king as divine rainmaker.

--Physical similarities of the early Nile
valley populations with that of tropical
Africans. Such connections are
demonstrated in the work of numerous
scholars such as Thompson and Randall
Mclver 1905, Falkenburger 1947, and
Strouhal 1971. The distance diagrams of
Mukherjee, Rao and Trevor (1955) place
the ancient Badarians genetically near
'black' tribes such as the Ashanti and the
Taita. See also the "Issues of lumping
under Mediterranean clusters" section
above for similar older analyses.

--Serological (blood) evidence of genetic
linkages. Paoli 1972 for example found a
significant resemblance between ABO
frequencies of dynastic Egyptians and the
black northern Haratin who are held to
be the probable descendants of the
original Saharans (Hiernaux, 1975).

--Language similarities which include
several hundred roots ascribable to
African elements (UNESCO 1974)

--Ancient Egyptian origin stories
ascribing origins of the gods and their
ancestors to African locations to the
south and west of Egypt (Davidson
1959)

--Advanced state building and political
unity in Nubia, including writing,
administrative apparatus and insignia
some 300 years before dynastic Egypt,
and the long demonstrated interchange
between Nubia and Egypt (Williams
1980)

--Newer studies (Wendorf 2001,
Wilkinson 1999, et al.) confirm these
older analyses. Excavations from Nabta
Playa, located about 100km west of Abu
Simbel for example, suggest that the
Neolithic inhabitants of the region were
migrants from Sub-Saharan Africa, based
on cultural similarities and social
complexity which is thought to be
reflective of Egypt's Old Kingdom

--Other scholars (Wilkinson 1999)
present similar material and cultural
evidence- including similarities between
predynastic Egypt and traditional African
cattle-culture, typical of Southern
Sudanese and East African pastoralists of
today, and various cultural and artistic
data such as iconography on rock art
found in both Egypt and in the Sudan.


QUOTE by Egyptologist about "those people"

"The evidence also points to linkages to
other northeast African peoples, not
coincidentally approximating the modern
range of languages closely related to
Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group
(formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These
linguistic similarities place ancient
Egyptian in a close relationship with
languages spoken today as far west as
Chad, and as far south as Somalia.
Archaeological evidence also strongly
supports an African origin. A widespread
northeastern African cultural assemblage,
including distinctive multiple barbed
harpoons and pottery decorated with
dotted wavy line patterns, appears during
the early Neolithic (also known as the
Aqualithic, a reference to the mild
climate of the Sahara at this time).
Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this
time resembles early Egyptian
iconography. Strong connections
between Nubian (Sudanese) and
Egyptian material culture continue in
later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper
Egypt. Similarities include black-topped
wares, vessels with characteristic
ripple-burnished surfaces, a special
tulip-shaped vessel with incised and
white-filled decoration, palettes, and
harpoons...

Other ancient Egyptian practices show
strong similarities to modern African
cultures including divine kingship, the
use of headrests, body art, circumcision,
and male coming-of-age rituals, all
suggesting an African substratum or
foundation for Egyptian civilization.."

-- Source: Donald Redford (2001) The
Oxford encyclopedia of ancient Egypt,
Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p.28


Sorry Hawass- "those people" will not go away..
That last bit quoted is by conservative Egyptologist Donald
Redford who has worked frequently with Hawass over
the years...

Hawass sez: "Egyptian civilization has nothing to
do with the African cultures."

Yet conservative mainstream the Egyptologists he
works with show the opposite...

Can any one say Hawass is full of BS?
I knew you could..


When is the dinosaur Hawass supposed to retire?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article: is racial prejudice on the irse in Egypt?
http://www.ipoaa.com/is_racial_prejudice_on_the_rise_in_egypt.htm


A Question of Colour:
Is Racial Prejudice on the Rise in Egypt, or
are Egyptians Merely Obsessed with Skin Colour?
by
Gamal Nkrumah

It is not an entirely curious fact that most Egyptians seem fixated on blue-eyed blondes. For one thing, the country is peopled essentially by dark-skinned, dark-haired people, and familiarity does breed contempt. Blue-eyed blondes are an exotic rarity. Mind you, an ever increasing number of well-heeled Egyptian women are desperately resorting to skin-lightening creams, light coloured-tinted contact lenses and hair bleaching dyes in an often farcical attempt to attain the golden-locked look.

Admittedly, all this is part of a global trend. Yellow-thatched Japanese youngsters are a common sight in Tokyo nowadays. Mercifully, the phenomenon hasn't quite caught on in Cairo, yet.

The whitening of Egypt has become a lucrative industry. Television commercials bombard viewers with a baffling array of skin-lightening creams and hair-straightening contraptions, creams and shampoos to effect the "white" look.

"Nothing is more dangerous than an idea when it's the only one you have," noted French philosopher Emile Chartier. Perhaps, he didn't have the single-minded struggle to be "white" in mind. To pass as white has become, for some, their veritable raison d'jtre.

The Egyptians see themselves as essentially sumr, or "dark". However, for all intents and purposes this is a most confusing and contentious term. If an individual is described as asmar, the masculine, or samra, the feminine, they could range in colour from the southern Sudanese ebony or indigo black, a west African chocolate or mahogany black, the various copper and honey-toned Ethiopian and Somali types, to the olive or off-white dark-haired Mediterranean or Middle Eastern-looking type.

Samara, or "Darkie", traditionally a term of endearment, has today taken on pejorative connotations in contemporary Egypt. The ugly forces of "shadism" are also at work in the country. Shadism, as a social and politico-economic occurrence was, and perhaps still is, pervasive in the Caribbean and among African Americans. Lighter-skinned blacks, who presumably had a greater infusion of white blood have been considered socially superior to darker, full-blooded blacks.

Suspected of actually being the slave-masters' progeny, they have been encouraged to assume overseer roles over the unadulterated blacks. In due course, they were accorded special social status, assumed political leadership and monopolised what economic opportunities presented themselves to the black elites. Those who have "good hair", meaning straighter and less kinky hair were also favoured.

In Egypt, no such historical tradition existed. But the perverted logic of shadism is sadly very much at work. Darker is uncouth, unpolished, crude and common.
Lighter is, accordingly, more desirable, preferred, simply superior, and to ignore this is to ignore one of the salient features of contemporary Egypt.

At some theoretical level it is understandable that black conjures up images of the ugly, pathetic and wretched in the Egyptian psyche. Egypt has become progressively whiter over the millennia. Even so, songs praising dark-skinned or black beauty ranging from the now classic "Asmar ya asmarani" [Dark one, oh dark one] sung by a coterie of now long-departed superstars including Faiza Ahmed and Abdel-Halim Hafez to the more contemporary "Habibi laun al-chocolata", [My love is the colour of chocolate], by Nubian singer Mohamed Mounir. This genre has always been a characteristic feature of Egyptian lyrical folklore.

Songs such as "Asmar malek rouhi" [The dark one owns my soul], and "Alu al-samar ahla walla al-bayad ahla" [They asked whether darkness was more comely than whiteness], another popular song by Soad Mohamed, clearly indicate a collective acknowledgment of the attractiveness of darkness among Egyptians. Indeed, darkness is generally perceived to confer upon the individual the peculiarly Egyptian concept of damm khafif loosely translated as "charming" or "humorous".

This is attested to by the popularity of references to darkness in the context of love and romance in the popular Egyptian song.

"Asmar, asmar tayeb malu, walla samaru sirr gamalu"
[So what if he is dark, that is the secret of his beauty], Mohamed Qandil's "Gamil wa asmar" [Beautiful and Dark], predated the "Black is Beautiful" slogan of the 1970s civil rights movement in the United States.

Racism as an institutionalised political and economic phenomenon never existed in Egypt.

There are many Nubian and Sudanese singers based in Cairo, the cultural capital of the Arab world, but their music is a different genre altogether. A few, such as Jawaher, a popular Sudanese singer, manage to penetrate the Egyptian pop-song market with smash hits such as "Ana bahebb al-asmarani" [I love the dark one]. Yet another is "Gani al-asmar gani" [The dark one came to me] a hit song sang by Etab, a Saudi singer who is herself black.

Nevertheless, it has to be mentioned that even in the realm of the popular song where traditionally references to whiteness or lightness of skin are minimal, there are a few exceptions. "Al-oyoun al-khodr saharouni" [Her green eyes bewitched me], by Muharram Fouad is one such exception.

Sadly, this fondness of darkness in popular songs is not reflected on the street. "I've never been called a nigger to my face more times in my life," Steffan, an African American studying in Cairo, told Al-Ahram Weekly. "Some Egyptian youth may listen to a lot of rap music and may not know how offensive the word is.

But some of the young adults I've heard it from, I hold accountable. They understand how offensive the word is," he said. "It's telling that discussion of race is so minimal that people could get away with using ignorance as an excuse for using the word nigger," he added.

When black Africans are asked whether they felt they were subject to racial prejudice while in Egypt, most queried had terrible stories of personal experiences to tell. African Americans, on the whole, were less emphatic. Some said that they did not suffer from any form of racial discrimination when in Egypt.

"Lighter-skinned Egyptians have treated me just fine. Speaking for myself, I have not experienced racism from Egyptians," said a friend from Oakland, California. "When I am in Egypt, it is as a visitor.

Most Egyptians instinctively know that I am African American, but there are some who think I am Egyptian or Nubian. But, whatever they think I am, I believe they think I am rich," she explained. "So whether I am in Cairo, Luxor or Aswan, Egyptians are always kind and polite to me. In fact, a lot of them want to talk to me. The Nubians, of course, always call me their Nubian 'sistah'."

The fact that shopkeepers, hoteliers and the public at large tend to equate Americans (be they black or white) with dollars and relative wealth might account for the impression that African Americans are less likely to face racial prejudice than sub-Saharan Africans in Egypt and are more likely to be accorded a warmer reception. "One other thing, I am always treated nicely by staff whether I am in a five-star hotel or a no-star hotel," my Californian friend said.

Africans from countries south of the Sahara, including the southern Sudanese and not excepting the large African diplomatic community in Cairo, have more troubling tales to tell.

However, racial prejudice is not exclusively directed at those from sub-Saharan Africa. Upper class Egyptians, often fairer than their poorer compatriots, invariably look down on lower class Egyptians who tend to be darker in complexion. There is a subtle correlation between lower income and darker complexion. The Egyptian upper classes and elites tend to be noticeably lighter in complexion than their poorer and working class compatriots. "They labour in the sun," is sometimes the cynical explanation.

But, a more accurate explanation would be that Egypt has for thousands of years been ruled by foreign, and lighter-skinned, invaders -- Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Turks, the French and British. A large section of the pre-revolutionary Egyptian elite could trace their ancestry to Balkan, Caucasian and Turkish roots.

Moreover, Napoleon Bonaparte's French expedition was notorious for sowing its seeds in places like the Delta city of Mansoura whose women are reputedly "exceptionally beautiful"; in Egyptian common parlance that means fair-skinned, with light-coloured eyes and hair.

Not only are the poorer classes darker in complexion, but they tend to display more "African" cultural traits. Much of the music they enjoy has rhythmic beats that are reminiscent of those of the music of Africa south of the Sahara, with an emphasis on drums and percussion. The elite tend to favour classical Western-influenced music or Middle Eastern (Turkish and Persian) musical strains dominated by stringed instruments. While the poorer and working classes are more likely to dance spontaneously and with abandon in public, the elites tend to be more restrained. Much clapping and ululation accompanies street parties in low income areas, the elites, in sharp contrast, shun these "baladi" literally "country" traits, suggestive of the African.

"The foremost issue is the darkness of your skin and your manner of dress. The darker your skin and the more ethnic, or African, your style of dress, the more stares and harassment you will receive," explained Thomas Ford, an African American resident in Cairo.

"As a Black man, an African American, I have been fortunate enough not to have experienced anything first hand. I have been welcomed with open arms."

Again, like many of his compatriots, he sees a qualitative difference between racism in Egypt and racism in his native US. "I will say that, in general, racism in Egypt is much less of an issue than in other parts of the world. But anyone who denies its existence is fooling himself." Ford spoke of a "subtle level of racism" that is "hard to define". Racism in Egypt, he said, was more prevalent among the educated and socioeconomic and political elites than among the poor and working classes. "In some ways it is almost non-existent compared to what I have experienced in the US, but at the same time there are some pervasive issues in Egypt involving race."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is there discrimination against dark-skinned native
Egyptians, the "baladi"?

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=egyptian+baladi+discrimination+racism+-bread&oq=egyptian+baladi+discrim ination+racism+-bread&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_nf=1&gs_l=serp.3...23514.24538.0.24871.7.7.0.0.0.1.133.779.2j5.7.0.pfwe.1.yd0I-CRk6vM

-------------------------------------------------------


Tropical Africans are not static entities.
are not confined to tropical zones. This is one
of the central problems with Eurocentric models-
they want to present and use a static, stereotyped
picture of tropical Africans as somehow huddled
next to some environmental "apartheid" line-
whether it be the Sahara or the equator. Some
recap points to consider:




8-point recap

1-- The climatic zones of Africa are a moving
target historically. The Sahara was once a lush
greenbelt for example. Africans live within ALL these
zones and adapt to and change with them, just like
other humans elsewhere, but they STILL remain African.

2--Tropical Africans range throughout the
continent. They are not conveniently confined
behind some artificial climatic Jim Crow barrier
as credible mainstream scholars repeatedly show.

3-- The data on the peoples of the Nile Valley
clearly show ancient Egypt was fundamentally
populated by tropically adapted Africans.

4-- The cultural and material data, from religion
to pottery, to art, show close links between
Egyptians an other tropical Africans.

5-- Limb proportions studies repeatedly show the
same physically.

6--Tropical environments have numerous micro-
climates, from hot deserts, to cold, cool
mountains, to cold jungle, yes jungle plateaus.
Tropical Africans again, are not static. They
inhabit all these environments WITHIN the tropic
zone. Thus narrow noses on the cold slopes, in
the thin air of East African mountains are
nothing special, and don't need any "race mix" or
"wandering Caucasoid" migrations to explain why.

7--Tropical Africans are the most diverse people
in the world, and are not bound by mere
environmental factors to explain how they look.
Broad nosed, tightly curly-haired peoples appear
on cold mountain slopes, while narrow nosed,
looser-haired peoples show up on West African
savannahs and in deserts. As the cradle of
modern humanity, the African genetic pool is the
base. Thus native peoples in Africa without say a
heavy limb proportion index are not necessarily from
elsewhere outside Africa. The genetic diversity
of Africa, and the environmental diversity (including
tropical zone micro-climes or interzones) covers
a wide range.

8-- The tropical zone is right adjacent to the
sub-tropical zone, with substantial overlap. In fact
the Tropic ZOne cuts through part of Southern Egypt.
The notion that tropical people from the
Sudan cannot walk 100 miles across the artificial
climatic line of the Tropic of Cancer into
the Nile Valley, and that somehow "wandering
Caucasoids" from 900 miles distant are needed to
explain a narrow nose, is still part of the Eurocentric
mindset, and fulfills the racial agendas of that mindset.

8-- Finally tropical adaptations are deeply embedded
in humans, much more so than mere skin color,
nose shape or hair texture. This means that when
such adaptations are found, you can be sure that
the people are indeed related to those from
tropic zones. This is why ancient Egyptians cluster
with Black Americans on limb proportion measures-
both peoples are tropically derived. Again keep
in mind that a slice of SOuthern Egypt is within the
tropical climate zone.


 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Troll, have you learned nothing? All the above people are "packed with melanin"

---

Wipeout,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

THIS IS WHY MODERN STUDIES SHOW THEM TO CLUSTER WITHIN AFRICAN TROPICAL ADAPTION!

---

Fail.

What study shows thin noses or wavy-straight hair having evolved in the tropical environment? This suggestion is retarded and defies evolution. The equivilant is saying Scandinavians have afros.

---

Why do the topics represent indigenous featues? Meanwhile whatever climates in Europe can represent Euros? Many meds came from different have different features and didnt come from the North/northwest. But its ok to call their features European cause its on the continent while its not ok to say the same for Africa. Those features are prevalent among Euros cause they are a subset of AFRICAS diversity not cause it came from there.
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Tropical Africans are not static entities.
are not confined to tropical zones. This is one
of the central problems with Eurocentric models-
they want to present and use a static, stereotyped
picture of tropical Africans as somehow huddled
next to some environmental "apartheid" line-
whether it be the Sahara or the equator. Some
recap points to consider:




8-point recap

1-- The climatic zones of Africa are a moving
target historically. The Sahara was once a lush
greenbelt for example. Africans live within ALL these
zones and adapt to and change with them, just like
other humans elsewhere, but they STILL remain African.

2--Tropical Africans range throughout the
continent. They are not conveniently confined
behind some artificial climatic Jim Crow barrier
as credible mainstream scholars repeatedly show.

3-- The data on the peoples of the Nile Valley
clearly show ancient Egypt was fundamentally
populated by tropically adapted Africans.

4-- The cultural and material data, from religion
to pottery, to art, show close links between
Egyptians an other tropical Africans.

5-- Limb proportions studies repeatedly show the
same physically.

6--Tropical environments have numerous micro-
climates, from hot deserts, to cold, cool
mountains, to cold jungle, yes jungle plateaus.
Tropical Africans again, are not static. They
inhabit all these environments WITHIN the tropic
zone. Thus narrow noses on the cold slopes, in
the thin air of East African mountains are
nothing special, and don't need any "race mix" or
"wandering Caucasoid" migrations to explain why.

7--Tropical Africans are the most diverse people
in the world, and are not bound by mere
environmental factors to explain how they look.
Broad nosed, tightly curly-haired peoples appear
on cold mountain slopes, while narrow nosed,
looser-haired peoples show up on West African
savannahs and in deserts. As the cradle of
modern humanity, the African genetic pool is the
base. Thus native peoples in Africa without say a
heavy limb proportion index are not necessarily from
elsewhere outside Africa. The genetic diversity
of Africa, and the environmental diversity (including
tropical zone micro-climes or interzones) covers
a wide range.

8-- The tropical zone is right adjacent to the
sub-tropical zone, with substantial overlap. In fact
the Tropic ZOne cuts through part of Southern Egypt.
The notion that tropical people from the
Sudan cannot walk 100 miles across the artificial
climatic line of the Tropic of Cancer into
the Nile Valley, and that somehow "wandering
Caucasoids" from 900 miles distant are needed to
explain a narrow nose, is still part of the Eurocentric
mindset, and fulfills the racial agendas of that mindset.

8-- Finally tropical adaptations are deeply embedded
in humans, much more so than mere skin color,
nose shape or hair texture. This means that when
such adaptations are found, you can be sure that
the people are indeed related to those from
tropic zones. This is why ancient Egyptians cluster
with Black Americans on limb proportion measures-
both peoples are tropically derived. Again keep
in mind that a slice of SOuthern Egypt is within the
tropical climate zone.




^^The above model Brooke Bailey is not "really" black.. lol





^^Chock full of basal epithelial cells packed with melanin...
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
[QB] Tropical Africans are not static entities.
are not confined to tropical zones.

---

name an African population, by city, not from a tropical zone
and why you would call them "Tropical" if they are not from the tropics?

 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
^^See a map of Africa, identify the tropical zone
and answer your own question.



^Basal melanin packing ...

"Intralimb (crural and brachial) indices are significantly higher in ancient Egyptians than in American Whites (except crural index among females), i.e., Egyptians have relatively longer distal segments (Table 4). Intralimb indices are not significantly different between Egyptians and American Blacks... Many of those who have studied ancient Egyptians have commented on their characteristically ‘‘tropical’’ or ‘‘African’’ body plan.. Egyptians also fall within the range of modern African populations (Ruff and Walker, 1993).. brachial indices are definitely more ‘‘African’’).. In terms of femoral and tibial length to total skeletal height proportions, we found that ancient Egyptians .. still closer to Blacks than to Whites."

--Raxter and Ruff (2008) Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Zaharan in the other thread was exposed when he was trying to pass off a girl 1/4 NORWEGIAN ('white') as ''black'', and now he's doing exactly the same...

quote:

---

The above model Brooke Bailey is not "really" black.. lol

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[qb] Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?

---

My essay discusses several known examples.

---

You cannot infer from a phucking picture whether a golden haired person has any association with Europeans, let alone, a ''Nordid'', you phucking buffoon. Even if its really blond hair, Europeans aren't the only Eurasians with blond hair.

So, if we're dealing with a Nordid elite, where are the Nordid males?

Hetepheres' spouse:


Hetepheres' father:


Where are the Nordid males in this family?
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
[QB] Tropical Africans are not static entities.
are not confined to tropical zones.

---

name an African population, by city, not from a tropical zone
and why you would call them "Tropical" if they are not from the tropics?

---

Migration patterns from further South, Sahara/ Sahel. !

Naqada I, II, III is Predynastic Egyptian history.

Yurco's statement:

"...a homogeneous African population had lived in the Nile Valley from ancient to modern times"[...]

"Analysis of Predinastic skeletal material showed tropical African elements in the population of the earliest populations of the earliest Badarian culture" [...]





 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Those models certainly have more African ancestry than Egyptians elites, whether modern or ancient, have/had ''Nordid'' ancestry.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[qb] Angho', stop running, where are early dynastic murals of the white Nordid (lol!) male and female ancient Egyptian elites?

---

My essay discusses several known examples.

---

You cannot infer from a phucking picture whether a golden haired person has any association with Europeans, let alone, a ''Nordid'', you phucking buffoon. Even if its really blond hair, Europeans aren't the only Eurasians with blond hair.

So, if we're dealing with a Nordid elite, where are the Nordid males?

Hetepheres' spouse:


Hetepheres' father:


Where are the Nordid males in this family?

---

quote:

---

Dr. Rosalie David describes the ancient Libyans as a ''people with distinctive red or blonde hair and blue eyes'' (The Making of the Past, 1975, pp. 13-14).

Flinders Petrie in his Religion and Conscience in Ancient Egypt (1898) has noted: ''That Set belongs to the Libyans or Westerns is probable, because he is considered to have red hair and a white skin'' (p. 32).

In ancient Greek literature the Libyans are also described as red haired or blonde. The Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax (4th century BC) for example notes of xanthos Libyes, ''fair Libyans'' (Geographi Graeci Minores, Vol. i, p. 88, col. B) and Callimachus in his hymns wrote of ''yellow-haired Libyan women'' (Hymn II to Apollo, 85). The Roman poet Lucan (61 AD) also wrote of Libyans with reddish hair (Pharsalia, x. 155).

In ancient sources the Libyans are also called Tamahu, Tjehenu or Temehu (tmfiw). The root of this word is ''Tam'', created, and ''Hu'', white, the Tamahu are thus the ''created white people'' (Massey, 1881, vol. 1, p. 27).

---

quote:

---

the Nordid element was introduced though admixture with the Libyans of the western delta.

---

What did I just tell your incredibly dumb ass? What does blond hair necessarily have to do with Europeans, let alone ''Nordids''. How the phuck do Nordids come into the picture, let alone an entire ''Nordid'' elite?

Start explaining your dumb nonsensical self, and make it quick, will ya?
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Bumper the bumb!

Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262


As Brothwell and Spearman (‘63) point out, reddish-brown ancient hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. This color was seen in a large proportion of the Semna sample, and also noted by Titlbachova and Titlbach (‘77) on Egyptian material, where it also may have resulted from the mummification process. However, the large number of blond hairs that are not associated with the cuticular damage that bleaching produces, probably points to a significantly lighter-haired population than is now present in the Nubian region. Brothwell and Spearman (’63) noted genuinely blond ancient Egyptian samples using reflectance spectrophotometry. Blondism, especially in young children, is common in many darkhaired populations (e.g., Australian, Melanesian), and is still found in some Nubian villages (J. Zabkar, personal communication).


Only one sample (M197) showed cuticular damage and irregularities definitely consistent with bleaching, although bleaching could not be ruled out in some of the blond samples.


pdf file







Women in ancient Egypt




The Cambridge ancient history, Volumes 1-3


In the early 20th century much was made over the ancestry of Hetepheres II. A relief from the tomb of her daughter, Meresankh III, depicts the queen with blonde hair.


However, closer inspection reveals that she was not a natural blonde, but rather the owner of a unique and, we can speculate, much coveted blonde wig.




Limestone statue of Hetep-Heres II (mother) and Meres-Ankh III (daughter) from their tomb G 7530-7540 at Giza, dating to the 4th Dynasty. Paired statues of mother and daughters are common (but less so that husband and wife pairs). Queen Hetep-Heres was a daughter of King Khufu and was married to Prince Kawab. Meres-Ankh is known to have died before her mother and was married to King Khafra (builder of the second great pyramid at Giza) and the statue was a gift from her mother.


Khufu,








Kawab,





 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Little change in body shape was found through time, suggesting that all body segments were varying in size in response to environmental and social conditions. The change found in body plan is suggested to be the result of the later groups having a more tropical (Nilotic) form than the preceding populations. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2003.


Comparisons of linear body proportions of Old Kingdom and non-Old Kingdom period individuals, and workers and high officials in our sample found no statistically significant differences among them. Zakrzewski (2003) also found little evidence for differences in linear body proportions of Egyptians over a wider temporal range.

---

 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

the Nordid element was introduced though admixture with the Libyans of the western delta.

---

What did I just tell your incredibly dumb ass? What does blond hair necessarily have to do with Europeans, let alone ''Nordids''. How the phuck do Nordids come into the picture, let alone an entire ''Nordid'' elite?

Start explaining your dumb nonsensical self, and make it quick, will ya?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin.

---

Stupid strawman. Nobody said otherwise. My response was to your claim that southern Euros and Turks had "chocolate" complexions. Yet you failed to provide examples of such, no doubt because such does not exist.

quote:

---

the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this

---

Another strawman. Of course Egyptians has a diversity of tones but ALL are in the range of what we call 'black'. And Troll Patrol NEVER backs up trolls like YOUR dumb lyingass.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

This goes to all you trolls!

This is the actual topic!

For example, short mitochondrial DNA sequences have been recovered from
the remains of a liver found in a canopic jar belonging to Nekht-Ankh, a priest of the
Middle Kingdom.77 These sequences when compared to the sequences recovered from
the Delta population (Lower Egypt), it were found to be identical to four of the
modern Egyptian mitochondrial lineages. Preliminary results from PCR on the Nile
Delta population in the late 1980s found that “small subsets of modern Egyptian
mitochondrial DNA lineages are closely related to Sub-Saharan African lineages.”..

Now read it and b*tch if you want but b*tch about the results!
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Exactly what evidence do you have that blonde hair ever occurred naturally among North Africans??

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin.

---

Stupid strawman. Nobody said otherwise. My response was to your claim that southern Euros and Turks had "chocolate" complexions. Yet you failed to provide examples of such, no doubt because such does not exist.

quote:

---

the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this

---

Another strawman. Of course Egyptians has a diversity of tones but ALL are in the range of what we call 'black'. And Troll Patrol NEVER backs up trolls like YOUR dumb lyingass.

---

this man is closer to "chocolate"


than this man


who is closer to this Turk in complexion than the Indian man


don't make me waste my time taking photoshop color samples enlargements and proving it.

you are the one that brings up "chocolate" all the time, some kind "negro" in quotes yardstick for you, the implication that all Egyptians were "chocolate"

"chocolate", a red herring stereotype that you are always trying to project

here have some


 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

the Nordid element was introduced though admixture with the Libyans of the western delta.

---

What did I just tell your incredibly dumb ass? What does blond hair necessarily have to do with Europeans, let alone ''Nordids''. How the phuck do Nordids come into the picture, let alone an entire ''Nordid'' elite?

Start explaining your dumb nonsensical self, and make it quick, will ya?

---

Fair (blonde) hair is a diagnostic Nordid trait.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
this man is closer to "chocolate"


than this man


who is closer to this Turk in complexion than the Indian man


don't make me waste my time taking photoshop color samples enlargements and proving it.

you are the one that brings up "chocolate" all the time, some kind "negro" in quotes yardstick for you, the implication that all Egyptians were "chocolate"

"chocolate", a red herring stereotype that you are always trying to project

here have some

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Those models certainly have more African ancestry than Egyptians elites, whether modern or ancient, have/had ''Nordid'' ancestry.


Where are the Nordid males in this family? [/QB]

---

That was funny.















Although bananas have been cultivated as a food for 4,000 - 10,000 years in tropical areas, Europeans were not aware of the fruit until they started exploring the world during the Age of Discovery in the 1500s. LOOOOOOL
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
^^^^^ look at this Truthcentic and Djehuti the resident black militants trying to promote a chocolate test
 

---

Posted by Narmerthoth (Member # 20259) on :
 
Shaddup freakazoid and apologize, you ig'nate ingrate!
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
Truthcentric, the Louvre Museum says the Seated Scribe was coated in wax by the Egyptians and this wax had accumlated dirt over the centuries and that they removed the dirty wax?

Ot do you believe what Djehuti believes that the sculpture was originally chocolate brown and the Louvre is lying, there was no layer of wax it was chocolate brown paint intentionally removed by the Louvre in order to make the Seated Scribe look lighter?

-they just forgot to remove some of the chocolate brown paint on the legs, those French are sloppy
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 




 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Shaddup freakazoid and apologize, you ig'nate ingrate!

---

kiss my dark chocolate, melanin packed ass
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

*
__________________________^^^^^^^

quote:

---

Originally posted by Truthcentric:
guy looks more yellow-brown than chocolate to my eyes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Exactly what evidence do you have that blonde hair ever occurred naturally among North Africans??

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

there are numerous non-Africans with dark skin.

---

Stupid strawman. Nobody said otherwise. My response was to your claim that southern Euros and Turks had "chocolate" complexions. Yet you failed to provide examples of such, no doubt because such does not exist.

quote:

---

the Egyptians had a diversity of skin tones, not just "chocolate" and Troll Patty is backing me on this

---

Another strawman. Of course Egyptians has a diversity of tones but ALL are in the range of what we call 'black'. And Troll Patrol NEVER backs up trolls like YOUR dumb lyingass.

---

this man is closer to "chocolate"


than this man


who is closer to this Turk in complexion than the Indian man


don't make me waste my time taking photoshop color samples enlargements and proving it.

you are the one that brings up "chocolate" all the time, some kind "negro" in quotes yardstick for you, the implication that all Egyptians were "chocolate"

"chocolate", a red herring stereotype that you are always trying to project

here have some

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Shaddup freakazoid and apologize, you ig'nate ingrate!

---

kiss my dark chocolate, melanin packed ass

---

lol at this trickery!

I got next,

AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 121:219–229 (2003)

Variation in Ancient Egyptian Stature and Body
Proportions Sonia R. Zakrzewski*


Department of Archaeology, University of Southampton, Southampton SO17 1BF, UK

'The ancient Egyptians have been described as having a “ Negroid” body plan (Robins, 1983).

Variations in the proximal to distal segments of each limb were therefore examined. Of the ratios considered, only maximum humerus length to maximum ulna length (XLH/XLU) showed statistically significant change through time.

This change was a relative decrease in the length of the humerus as compared with the ulna, suggesting the development of an increasingly African body plan with time.

This may also be the result of Nubian mercenaries being included in the sample from Gebelein.

The nature of the body plan was also investigated by comparing the intermembral, brachial, and crural indices for these samples with values obtained from the literature. No significant differences were found in either index through time for either sex. The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983). The values for the brachial and crural indices show that the distal segments of each limb are longer relative to the proximal segments than in many “African” populations (data from Aiello and Dean, 1990). This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations.'


Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and
staining methods for histological and "immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues"

A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren Department of Biology I, Biodiversity Research/Anthropology1and Department of Veterinary Anatomy II2, Ludwig-Maximilians University Munich, Germany
Submitted January 8, 2002; revised May 4, 2004; accepted August 12, 2004

Abstract

During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were
sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods. Furthermore, three fixatives were tested with each of the rehydration fluids.

Meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and a placenta were used for this study. The rehydration and fixation procedures were uniform for all methods.

Materials and methods

In 1997, the German Institute for Archaeology
headed an excavation of the tombs of the nobles
in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. At this time, three
types of tissues were sampled from different
mummies: meniscus (fibrocartilage), skin, and
placenta. Archaeological findings suggest that the
mummies dated from the New Kingdom (approxi-
mately 1550-1080 BC).

Skin

Skin sections showed particularly good tissue
preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had
already separated from the dermis, the remaining
epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1).

The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin.
In the dermis, the hair follicles, hair, and sebaceous and sweat glands were readily apparent (Fig. 2). Blood vessels, but no red blood cells, and small peripheral nerves were identified unambiguously (Fig. 3). The subcutaneous layer showed loose connective tissue fibers attached to the dermis, and fat cell remnants were observed.

To evaluate the influence of postmortum tissue
decay by micro-organisms, the samples were
tested for the presence of fungi using silver
staining.

Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7Á/13













 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patty:


I know it's off topic but
I think I'll throw up a dental article just for the hell of

-maybe people will be impressed

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
E-V68

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Shaddup freakazoid and apologize, you ig'nate ingrate!

---

kiss my dark chocolate, melanin packed ass

---

.

The basal epithelial cells were packed
with melanin as expected for specimens of
South Indian origin.


 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
^^^LOL at the NONSENSE ABOVE!!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patty:


I know it's off topic but
I think I'll throw up a dental article just for the hell of

-maybe people will be impressed

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

the Nordid element was introduced though admixture with the Libyans of the western delta.

---

What did I just tell your incredibly dumb ass? What does blond hair necessarily have to do with Europeans, let alone ''Nordids''. How the phuck do Nordids come into the picture, let alone an entire ''Nordid'' elite?

Start explaining your dumb nonsensical self, and make it quick, will ya?

---

Fair (blonde) hair is a diagnostic Nordid trait.

---

Stop lying ho'. Blonde hair was found all over the Middle East and Central Asia, especially among the Scythians. These people have are indigenous to Asia, and have little direct connections with Nordic people.

So again, where is your evidence that ancient Egyptian blond hair can be recklessly equated with North Western Europeans, and **where** are images of complete ''Nordid'' elite families in ancient Egypt? By linking Hetepheres to Libyans, you're only proving my point that all you do is posting isolated individuals.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
E-V68

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Shaddup freakazoid and apologize, you ig'nate ingrate!

---

kiss my dark chocolate, melanin packed ass

---

.

The basal epithelial cells were packed
with melanin as expected for specimens of
South Indian origin.

---

quote:

---

Morphological variation of the skeletal remains of ancient Nubia has been traditionally explained as a product of multiple migrations into the Nile Valley. In contrast, various researchers have noted a continuity in craniofacial variation from Mesolithic through Neolithic times. This apparent continuity could be explained by in situ cultural evolution producing shifts in selective pressures which may act on teeth, the facial complex, and the cranial vault.

A series of 13 Mesolithic skulls from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, are compared to Nubian Neolithic remains by means of extended canonical analysis. Results support recent research which suggests consistent trends of facial reduction and cranial vault expansion from Mesolithic through Neolithic times.

quote:

---

Northern Egypt near the Mediterranean shows the same pattern- limb length data puts its peoples closer to tropically adapted Africans that cold climate Europeans

"...sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine.

The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans."

---

Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60


The burial found in the South. Of "the reality of the tropical adapted, maxillary, alveolar prognathic African with overbite." Packed with melanin specimen of African (negroid) origin. He, who died of a typical African decease, like the rest of his family members who suffered from this illness, called sickle cel!


Everything indicated a boy of African origin. Yet the racist black woman imposter, lyingass, keeps on ranting for years.looool

---

 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Blondism was taken into those regions by Indo-European (IE) migrants who were Nordid.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
''Indo-European languages were, at one time, associated with a single, if composite, racial type, and that [...] racial type was an ancestral Nordic." (Coon, 1939)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
The blonde Libyans were not indigenous to Africa at all, but were an exogenous Nordid population

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Blondism was taken into those regions by Indo-European (IE) migrants who were Nordid.

---

According to what evidence?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
''Indo-European languages were, at one time, associated with a single, if composite, racial type, and that [...] racial type was an ancestral Nordic." (Coon, 1939)

---

According to what evidence?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
The blonde Libyans were not indigenous to Africa at all, but were an exogenous Nordid population

---

Explain why the European genetic component of modern blonde/red haired North Africans is primarily alligned with Iberians, rather than Northwestern Europeans.

---

Here is a mixed Nordic

 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
Bumper the bumb!

Analysis of Hair Samples of Mummies from Semna South, American Journal of Physical Anthropology, (1978) 49: 277-262


As Brothwell and Spearman (‘63) point out, reddish-brown ancient hair is usually the result of partial oxidation of the melanin pigment. This color was seen in a large proportion of the Semna sample, and also noted by Titlbachova and Titlbach (‘77) on Egyptian material, where it also may have resulted from the mummification process. However, the large number of blond hairs that are not associated with the cuticular damage that bleaching produces, probably points to a significantly lighter-haired population than is now present in the Nubian region. Brothwell and Spearman (’63) noted genuinely blond ancient Egyptian samples using reflectance spectrophotometry. Blondism, especially in young children, is common in many darkhaired populations (e.g., Australian, Melanesian), and is still found in some Nubian villages (J. Zabkar, personal communication).


Only one sample (M197) showed cuticular damage and irregularities definitely consistent with bleaching, although bleaching could not be ruled out in some of the blond samples.


pdf file







Women in ancient Egypt




The Cambridge ancient history, Volumes 1-3


In the early 20th century much was made over the ancestry of Hetepheres II. A relief from the tomb of her daughter, Meresankh III, depicts the queen with blonde hair.


However, closer inspection reveals that she was not a natural blonde, but rather the owner of a unique and, we can speculate, much coveted blonde wig.




Limestone statue of Hetep-Heres II (mother) and Meres-Ankh III (daughter) from their tomb G 7530-7540 at Giza, dating to the 4th Dynasty. Paired statues of mother and daughters are common (but less so that husband and wife pairs). Queen Hetep-Heres was a daughter of King Khufu and was married to Prince Kawab. Meres-Ankh is known to have died before her mother and was married to King Khafra (builder of the second great pyramid at Giza) and the statue was a gift from her mother.


Khufu,








Kawab,





 

---

Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
Shifting away from engaging the trolls...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
If you ask me, the Ancient Egyptians weren't pigmented to the max either, like some Nubian groups would have been. If you look at early holocenic cave paintings, such as the cave of swimmers, the people are painted (mostly) brown skinned, I believe more highly pigmented figures are also represented. I wouldn't say symbolic coloration extended that far back in time. Slightly lighter skin color should be expected, given their latitude.

---

You might want to consider that those artists might have had a limited color palette when painting. Maybe they simply had little or no black paint available to them?

Furthermore, let's recall all those descriptions of Egyptians as having "super-Negroid" limb proportions. Of course the correlation between skin color and limb proportions isn't perfect, but if Egyptians had limb proportions in the upper end of the African range, that suggests an equatorial heritage which would carry along with it very dark skin.

Mind you, I don't doubt that some Egyptians, especially those in the country's northern nomes, may have had lighter skin, as it does make latitudinal sense, but I wouldn't discount the existence of very dark ones yet.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
TROLL PATROL ?





you ever notice Khufu looks Chinese? (aka San)

THE KHUFU STATUETTE IS IT AN OLD KINGDOM SCULPTURE?

page 5

http://www.gizapyramids.org/pdf%20library/hawass_fs_mokhtar.pdf
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Blondism was taken into those regions by Indo-European (IE) migrants who were Nordid.

---

According to what evidence?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
''Indo-European languages were, at one time, associated with a single, if composite, racial type, and that [...] racial type was an ancestral Nordic." (Coon, 1939)

---

According to what evidence?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
The blonde Libyans were not indigenous to Africa at all, but were an exogenous Nordid population

---

Explain why the European genetic component of modern blonde/red haired North Africans is primarily alligned with Iberians, rather than Northwestern Europeans.

---

quote:

---

The DNA testing of remains from kurgans indicated a high prevalence of people with characteristics such as blue (or green) eyes, fair skin and light hair.

C. Bouakaze et al., (2009). Pigment phenotype and biogeographical ancestry from ancient skeletal remains: inferences from multiplexed autosomal SNP analysis, International Journal of Legal Medicine. Volume 123, No. 4, pp. 315-325

Christine Keyser et al.,(2009). Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people, Human Genetics, Volume 126, No. 3, pp. 395-410.

---

For masses of anthropological evidence, largely from ancient literature, that the Indo-Europeans were blonde Nordids see 'Indo-European Origins: The Anthropological Evidence' by John V. Day (2001). 570 pages and 2,600 references, this is Dr. Day's approved PhD dissertation.

What this work shows -

(a) Reveals that over 2000 years ago a sharp-eyed observer in northern India claimed that upper-class men had fair skins and reddish hair (pages 80-82).
(b) Analyses why Homer depicts important Greek heroes as blonde haired (pages 87-92).
(c) Discusses early Celtic heroes in Irish literature and their typically light hair (pages 107-113).
(d) Records the early Roman emperors who had light hair and blue eyes (pages 102-106).
(e) Evaluates the 2500-year-old Iranian “Archer Frieze” that portrays some Iranian men with blue eyes (pages 134-137).
(f) Examines Buddhist murals painted over 1000 years ago in northwest China that portray Indo-European Tocharians with fair hair, white skin and light eyes (pages 137-140).
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
''Berbers are undoubtedly the descendants of the races known to the Greeks and Romans under the generic name of Libyans. The Kabyles of the hills between Algiers and Bougie, and the Shawia of the Aures Mountains are very similar to one another and may be taken as typical Berbers. They are distinctly white-skinned, [...]some have yellow hair and blue eyes. In the royal necropolis of Thebes of about 1300 B.C., certain Libyans are depicted as having a white skin, blue eyes and fair beards. Blonds are represented on Egyptian monuments from 1700 B.C. and were noted by the Greeks in the fourth century B.C. Perhaps they were a sporadic invasions and formed an aristocratic class.
- Alfred Cort Haddon, The Races of Man and Their Distribution (1924), University Press, 1924, p.36

''Part of my time had been passed of what is called "La Grande Kabylie", that portion of the province of Algiers which is inhabited by he Kabyles, the most direct descendants of the Ancient Libyans. They are strange people these Kabyles, both in customs and physical aspects. Native of Africa time out of mind, many of them present the purest type of the blonde races, blue or gray eyes, tawny beard, fair complexion, curly light or reddish hair, muscular in build and often tall in stature.
- Daniel Garrison Brinton, The Ethnologic affinities of the Ancient Etruscans, Proceedings, American Philosophical Society, vol. 26, 1889, p.504

''Among the Berbers, particularly the Kabyles in the Riff and in the Aures range, a Nordic strain shows itself clearly''
- Hans F.K. Günther, The racial elements of european history, E. P. Dutton, 1927

''Of the Berbers there is much good to be said. Whether in the olive-clad mountains of Kabylia or the terraced valleys of their Aurasian fastnesses, they are white men, and in general act like white men. Among them the virtues of honesty, hospitality, and good-nature are conspicuous. It is not their misfortune alone that the lowlands know them no more ; not their misfortune only that Mohammedanism has debarred them from entering as they would otherwise have entered on the path of European progress and liberality : it is the misfortune of the whole civilised world. Descendants of a mighty race whose culture once spread from the Atlantic to the Red Sea and the Hauran, from Crete to Timbuctoo and the Soudan, there are still to be found among them the vestiges of the arts and sciences, of the spirit of conquest, of the capacity for self-government which, if developed, would make them again a great nation.
Melville William Hilton-Simpson, Among the Hill Folk of Algeria (1921), p.4

''The Berbers, among whom even today one finds light skins and blue eyes, do not go back to the Vandal invasions of the fifth century A.D., but to the prehistoric Atlantic Nordic human wave.''
- Alfred Rosenberg, The Myth of the Twentieth Century (1930), p. 6
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
 
The burial found in the South. Of "the reality of the tropical adapted, maxillary, alveolar prognathic African with overbite." Packed with melanin specimen of African (negroid) origin. He, who died of a typical African decease, like the rest of his family members who suffered from this illness, called sickle cel!


Everything indicated a boy of African origin. Yet the racist black woman imposter, lyingass, keeps on ranting for years.looool














[/QUOTE] [/QB][/QUOTE]

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
TROLL PATROL ?





you ever notice Khufu looks Chinese? (aka San)

THE KHUFU STATUETTE IS IT AN OLD KINGDOM SCULPTURE?

page 5

http://www.gizapyramids.org/pdf%20library/hawass_fs_mokhtar.pdf

---

quote:

---

DNA extracted from Kurgan burials has revealed they were blonde haired, light skinned and blue eyed. The Kurgan Hypothesis has the most academic consensus regarding the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) homeland, and adjacent territory.

---

quote:

---

For masses of anthropological evidence, largely from ancient literature, that the Indo-Europeans were blonde Nordids

---

quote:

---

I'm not questioning that they were blond haired, but that they had any direct association with Scandinavians, you fraud.
-What evidence indicates that blonde hair was taken to the Middle East by ''Nordids''
-What evidence indicates that the earliers IE speakers were of an ancestral Nordid type?

---

quote:

---

If blond North Africans are ''Nordid'', explain why the European genetic component of modern blonde/red haired North Africans is primarily alligned with Iberians, rather than Northwestern Europeans.

---

quote:

---

I mean do you think all Neanderthals are from the Neander Valley? Nordids are not limited to Scandinavia, the same way Mediterranids are not limited to the Mediterranean.

---

quote:

---

These traits only emerged in the north, they didn't evolve in Africa or Western Asia, they were imported there by IE's.

---

quote:

---

Fair hair and light eyes only evolved in northern climatic conditions. The IE's were responsible for spreading blondism to other regions.

---

quote:

---

The only fair haired populations in North Africa are isolated Berber tribes. Take a look at any pigmentation map, same for eye colour. These populations are not typical, but very rare.

---

quote:

---

The presence of leukoderm Nordid blonde types in Egypt

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
The presence of leukoderm Nordid blonde types in Egypt from pre-dynastic times is obviously a blow to Afrocentrism. That's why you denialists are left with:

(a) Claiming ''blacks'' are now white skinned and blonde haired (Zaharan has claimed this).

(b) Claim they are albinos.

---

how many blonde haired Pharoahs do you know of?
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
Anglo-Hypocrite bellowed:
This girl is French and Native American admixed.

Stupid muthafacka. According to your own racialist definitions, Bailey
would be "negroid" or "negroid admixed" - in other words black- black both
by social construct definitions, and unmistakably by visual phenotype.
But your white "role models" including your "Nordids" are themselves
"admixed", 1/3 African and 2/3s Asian. Your "Mediterranids" like Greks
themselves show a significant proportion of "sub Saharan" DNA.
You lose again wanker boy.



-----------------------------------------------------------



Furthermore your hypocrisy is again exposed. In earlier posts, you
lament "black criminals" - African-Americans who are your "admixed negroids."
You have no problem calling African-Americans "black" when you can bash them
as "criminals." But when it comes to African diversity, you then
hypocritically switch, and define the same African-AMericans as "non-black."

^^Stinking hypocrite, you are exposed again. You had no
problem bashing African Americans as low IQ criminals
in posts as below, and in numerous other posts:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=006380

But all of a suddenly the same African Americans
become "non-black" when their diversity is shown.
Why is that hypocrite?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

RECAP

Tropical Africans are not static entities.
are not confined to tropical zones. This is one
of the central problems with Eurocentric models-
they want to present and use a static, stereotyped
picture of tropical Africans as somehow huddled
next to some environmental "apartheid" line-
whether it be the Sahara or the equator. Some
recap points to consider:




8-point recap

1-- The climatic zones of Africa are a moving
target historically. The Sahara was once a lush
greenbelt for example. Africans live within ALL these
zones and adapt to and change with them, just like
other humans elsewhere, but they STILL remain African.

2--Tropical Africans range throughout the
continent. They are not conveniently confined
behind some artificial climatic Jim Crow barrier
as credible mainstream scholars repeatedly show.

3-- The data on the peoples of the Nile Valley
clearly show ancient Egypt was fundamentally
populated by tropically adapted Africans.

4-- The cultural and material data, from religion
to pottery, to art, show close links between
Egyptians an other tropical Africans.

5-- Limb proportions studies repeatedly show the
same physically.

6--Tropical environments have numerous micro-
climates, from hot deserts, to cold, cool
mountains, to cold jungle, yes jungle plateaus.
Tropical Africans again, are not static. They
inhabit all these environments WITHIN the tropic
zone. Thus narrow noses on the cold slopes, in
the thin air of East African mountains are
nothing special, and don't need any "race mix" or
"wandering Caucasoid" migrations to explain why.

7--Tropical Africans are the most diverse people
in the world, and are not bound by mere
environmental factors to explain how they look.
Broad nosed, tightly curly-haired peoples appear
on cold mountain slopes, while narrow nosed,
looser-haired peoples show up on West African
savannahs and in deserts. As the cradle of
modern humanity, the African genetic pool is the
base. Thus native peoples in Africa without say a
heavy limb proportion index are not necessarily from
elsewhere outside Africa. The genetic diversity
of Africa, and the environmental diversity (including
tropical zone micro-climes or interzones) covers
a wide range.

8-- The tropical zone is right adjacent to the
sub-tropical zone, with substantial overlap. In fact
the Tropic ZOne cuts through part of Southern Egypt.
The notion that tropical people from the
Sudan cannot walk 100 miles across the artificial
climatic line of the Tropic of Cancer into
the Nile Valley, and that somehow "wandering
Caucasoids" from 900 miles distant are needed to
explain a narrow nose, is still part of the Eurocentric
mindset, and fulfills the racial agendas of that mindset.

8-- Finally tropical adaptations are deeply embedded
in humans, much more so than mere skin color,
nose shape or hair texture. This means that when
such adaptations are found, you can be sure that
the people are indeed related to those from
tropic zones. This is why ancient Egyptians cluster
with Black Americans on limb proportion measures-
both peoples are tropically derived. Again keep
in mind that a slice of SOuthern Egypt is within the
tropical climate zone.


^^The above model Brooke Bailey is "non-black"
when it comes to African diversity, but if some "African American
can be labeled a "criminal" then they and she suddenly
become "black" again..





^^Chock full of basal epithelial cells packed with melanin...
When she can be labeled a criminal she becomes "black"
but when she is a case for African diversity or beauty,
she suddenly becomes "non-black" according to racist hypocrites
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Zaharan, Brooke Bailey is not solely African-American, she is someone with FRENCH ('white') parents and grandparents. She herself lists her ancestry as part French ('white').

Are you saying African-Americans typically have white French parents and grandparents?

You are the dumbest troll here. All the models you spam are mixed race, never Negroid.
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Shitty analogy. All Neanderthals fall within the genetic and morphological range of Neanderthals. The people you group under ’’Nordid’’ aren’t within the same group at all. Scandinavians are much more aligned genetically with Western Europeans. Scythians would have been much more aligned with Iranians, Eastern Europeans, and Indian groups. Also, as was explained earlier, the European component of the North African populations with blonde and red hair is aligned with Iberians, not with Scandinavians.

quote:

---

These traits only emerged in the north, they didn't evolve in Africa or Western Asia, they were imported there by IE's.

---

Prove it! Show the evidence of important back migrations from Scandinavia into the Middle East.

quote:

---

Fair hair and light eyes only evolved in northern climatic conditions. The IE's were responsible for spreading blondism to other regions.

---

What are you saying, that Asia doesn’t have Northern climatic conditons? LOL. **Prove** that light hair and eyes were brought to Asia by the ancestors of Scandinavians.

quote:

---

The only fair haired populations in North Africa are isolated Berber tribes. Take a look at any pigmentation map, same for eye colour. These populations are not typical, but very rare.

---

You fail, no matter where you turn for excuses. The same picture emerges when it comes to the Guanches; their European component is Iberian in origin.

quote:

---

The presence of leukoderm Nordid blonde types in Egypt

---

Among which predynastic remains? [/QB]

---

Come back when you learn the basics, otherwise you are just wasting my time.

It is only you who is making the retarded ''Nordids = Scandinavians'' claim. You are just setting up straw men, and then repeating the same fallacious arguments. By the same logic do you think all Mongoloids are from Mongolia?
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Prove it! Show the evidence of important back migrations from Scandinavia into the Middle East.

---

Another straw man.

Like I said it is only you making this stupid Nordid = Scandinavian equation. I've posted nothing whatsoever do to with Scandinavians.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 
People I have been observing Anglo_Pyramidologist and while you have to make elaborate replies I just one simple question to him "how many blonde haired Pharoahs do you know of?"
and it kills the whole Nordic Egyptian thing.
There are over 250 Pharoahs of Egypt even if you were to argue five were blond it is insignificant and it shoots down a Nordic Egypt concept.
Well how about ancient Libyans? Look at the Egyptian art, they are portrayed with black hair

Another thing you should notice is that Anglo_Pyramidologist will not state a geographic origin for Nordics or Caucasians in general

Therefore he can pretend it might be anywhere and everywhere.

That is his basic strategy, mention no geographic origin for Nordics or Caucasians, therefore they originate anywhere they happen to be found, any part of the world you happen to be discussing the the moment.

like the moon

Even the most seasoned white supremacists and most studious "racial realists" are not afraid to speak with "pride" of their geographic origins.

But Anglo_Pyramidologist has found it convenient to leave that out and travel with a goal post strapped to his back, how cowardly
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Well, if you take Nordid to represent a phenotypical configuration, than you still fail.

First off, Kurgans were not Nordids according to your boy Coon.

Brace 2005 has his Kurgan sample clustering close to North(east) Africans.

What did you say about Kurgans being the original blonde haired IE speakers again?

LOL

Secondly, people with significant frequencies of blonde hair don't form a cranio-facial cluster, whether you call it ''Nordid'', ''Ancestral Nordid'' or whatever. You're just pulling that out of your ass.

From Alpines, to Guanches, to Scythians, to Scandinavians, to Saami, they all have/had blonde hair, without necessarily being particularly close, phenotypically or genetically.

As for blonde/red headed Northern Africans; there is nothing ''Nordid'', whatever the phuck that means, about light hair frequencies in Northern Africa. Its simply spillover from Iberia and the Near East. Higher frequencies among Kabyles can be perfectly explained in terms of evolution.

 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Zaharan, Brooke Bailey is not solely African-American, she is someone with FRENCH ('white') parents and grandparents. She herself lists her ancestry as part French ('white').

Are you saying African-Americans typically have white French parents and grandparents?

---

^Racist hypocrite, you have no problem bashing African
Americans like Bailey and calling her black if you
can bash African-Americans as criminals and such, but now that her
picture appears illustrating Diop's take on Eurocentric
hypocrisy, all of a sudden you are calling her "non black".
And you yourself in earlier posts had no problem stating
that most black americans had a small portion of ancestry
from non-Africans. Yet you still called them black.

Now all of a sudden your hypocrisy is exposed, you
quickly and conveniently switch to calling them
non-black? lmao... Doofus! Don't you realize you
have been set up -- a perfect illustration of the
hypocrisy Diop was talking about.


^^According to racist hypocrite Anglo Buffoon she is
"black" when being bashed as a low iq criminal African American,
but suddenly becomes "non-black" with white parents
when used to illustrate Diop's observation on Eurocentric hypocrisy.




And who says Brook Bailey has white French parents?
Show us where she says her parents or grandparents
are white. And who says the French background she
refers to is from white France at all and not referring
to say a French SPEAKING ancestor from the Caribbean?
There are places out there that speak French doofus, like Haiti,
and there are black people elsewhere that speak
French with minimal white French ancestry. DUH..
You made the claim- now prove it. Prove Bailey has white
French parents or grandparents.


And don't forget your precious whites are themselves
a mixed mongrel breed which you keep running away from.




Hybrid wanker....
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ LOL Zarahan, the bloody British buffoon is a raving lunatic and loser! So what, if Brooke Bailey has some French admixture. What is the Anglo-Idiot's point? That she inherited her steatopygous physique and dark complexion from the French?! LMAO

You're wasting your time with the crazed idiot. Remember this is the same guy who claims the Maasai of rural Kenya who are highly endogamous are somehow "Caucasoid" mixed due to certain features like orthognathy and low nasal index!! LOL If you were to show him a Congolese model with the same features she too would be dismissed as 'mixed'!

And let's not forget the actual topic of this thread!:

For example, short mitochondrial DNA sequences have been recovered from
the remains of a liver found in a canopic jar belonging to Nekht-Ankh, a priest of the
Middle Kingdom.77 These sequences when compared to the sequences recovered from
the Delta population (Lower Egypt), it were found to be identical to four of the
modern Egyptian mitochondrial lineages. Preliminary results from PCR on the Nile
Delta population in the late 1980s found that “small subsets of modern Egyptian
mitochondrial DNA lineages are closely related to Sub-Saharan African lineages.”..
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 

quote:

---

Racist hypocrite, you have no problem bashing African
Americans like Bailey and calling her black if you
can bash African-Americans as criminals and such

---

quote:

---

Brooke Bailey Interviews with HennyWiz @ WizDailyDose

Hennywiz – Where are you originally from and what’s you ethnic background?

Brooke – I’m originally from South Central Los Angeles. I’m Black, Indian and French!

---

quote:

---

I’m Black, Indian and French!

---

quote:

---

And don't forget your precious whites are themselves
a mixed mongrel breed

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
Well, if you take Nordid to represent a phenotypical configuration, than you still fail.

First off, Kurgans were not Nordids according to your boy Coon.

Brace 2005 has his Kurgan sample clustering close to North(east) Africans.

What did you say about Kurgans being the original blonde haired IE speakers again?

LOL

Secondly, people with significant frequencies of blonde hair don't form a cranio-facial cluster, whether you call it ''Nordid'', ''Ancestral Nordid'' or whatever. You're just pulling that out of your ass.

From Alpines, to Guanches, to Scythians, to Scandinavians, to Saami, they all have/had blonde hair, without necessarily being particularly close, phenotypically or genetically.

As for blonde/red headed Northern Africans; there is nothing ''Nordid'', whatever the phuck that means, about light hair frequencies in Northern Africa. Its simply spillover from Iberia and the Near East. Higher frequencies among Kabyles can be perfectly explained in terms of evolution.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:
People I have been observing Anglo_Pyramidologist and while you have to make elaborate replies I just one simple question to him "how many blonde haired Pharoahs do you know of?"
and it kills the whole Nordic Egyptian thing.
There are over 250 Pharoahs of Egypt even if you were to argue five were blond it is insignificant and it shoots down a Nordic Egypt concept.
Well how about ancient Libyans? Look at the Egyptian art, they are portrayed with black hair

Another thing you should notice is that Anglo_Pyramidologist will not state a geographic origin for Nordics or Caucasians in general

Therefore he can pretend it might be anywhere and everywhere.

That is his basic strategy, mention no geographic origin for Nordics or Caucasians, therefore they originate anywhere they happen to be found, any part of the world you happen to be discussing the the moment.

like the moon

Even the most seasoned white supremacists and most studious "racial realists" are not afraid to speak with "pride" of their geographic origins.

But Anglo_Pyramidologist has found it convenient to leave that out and travel with a goal post strapped to his back, how cowardly

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Blonde hair is an Indo-European marker. Note that in Britain, the only places where you get blondes are in the areas the IE Saxons or Norse were concentrated (limited to the eastern coasts). The areas not impacted by Indo-Europeans (the most of UK) are brunette haired.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
^ haha. also note that Zaharan never spams the other picture with the Italian tag no more. This is after it was revealed the female he put up was mixed race, with Italian and Norweigian ancestry...

Norwegians are now ''black'' according to Zaharan. Total hypocrisy to cite a Diop quote accusing 'eurocentrics' of a double standard, Zaharan has claimed girls of 1/4 or 1/2 white european admixture are somehow magically ''black''.

---

While you claim meds to be white and subset of European diversity despite their having Asian and African lineages not found in the much more homogenous Northwestern Europeans like yourself.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Note that in Britain, the only places where you get blondes are in the areas the IE Saxons or Norse were concentrated (limited to the eastern coasts). The areas not impacted by Indo-Europeans (the most of UK) are brunette haired.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Blonde hair is an Indo-European marker. Note that in Britain, the only places where you get blondes are in the areas the IE Saxons or Norse were concentrated (limited to the eastern coasts). The areas not impacted by Indo-Europeans (the most of UK) are brunette haired.

---

LOL at this feminine dude redefining the discussion, and making it about Indo European speakers, instead of ''Nordids''. Answer the question ho': does the presence of blond hair in Northwest Africa, or anywhere else, for that matter, necessitate the migration of a ''Nordid'' population?

---

quote:

---

Indra is described as blonde (harikesa) in the Rig-Veda. For example John. V. Day in his Indo-European Origins (2001) notes: ''For many, Indra's fair hair and beard point to Aryans or Aryan warriors themselves have fair hair''. On page 115, Day further discusses the relation of Thor to Indra, listing numerous similarities.

In his Indogermanische religionsgeschichte, Friedrich Cornelius (1942) was one of the first scholars to notice that both Thor and Indra both have fair red beards. In the Mahabharata, Indra is described as having a reddish beard (xii. 329. 14.i-ii). Indra's fair beard has been compared to Thor's, furthermore in Old Norse dyja means to ''shake beard'', while in Vedic Sanskrit dhu also means to ''shake'' (Schroder, 1967).

Day provides the following references for a more detailed discussion, ''Indra does resemble the Germanic god Thor, who has a red beard'' cf. Cornelius 1942: 64; Giintert 1934: 77; Schrader 1917-29, I: 633; Schroeder 1923: 180; Vertemont 1997: A4; Winn 1995: 107.

Indra is furthjer described as having destroyed the Dasyans and ''protected the Aryan colour." (III. 34. 9). Obviously therefore he was light skinned and associated with the Nordid racial type (depigmentated, fair haired).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Brooke – I’m originally from South Central Los Angeles. I’m Black, Indian and French!

---

Dumb motherfack, why are you running and hiding?
You claimed Brooke Bailey had a white French grandfather
or father. She says nothing of the sort above.
French background can be French SPEAKING as in Haiti
or parts of Louisiana, or parts of the Caribbean.
You also had no problem calling African Americans
like her "black" when you were bashing them. But all of
a sudden she becomes "non-black" when exposing your hypocrisy.
That's why I used her specifically to set you up.
When asked for proof of these alleged "white" parents
you run and hide like a punk. Multiple posts can't
hide your incompetence and lying. Where is the
proof?



^^ What's taking you so long to provide proof hypocrite fag boy?

-------------------------------------------------------------
RECAP

Anglo-Hypocrite bellowed:
This girl is French and Native American admixed.

Stupid muthafacka. According to your own racialist definitions, Bailey
would be "negroid" or "negroid admixed" - in other words black- black both
by social construct definitions, and unmistakably by visual phenotype.
But your white "role models" including your "Nordids" are themselves
"admixed", 1/3 African and 2/3s Asian. Your "Mediterranids" like Greks
themselves show a significant proportion of "sub Saharan" DNA.
You lose again wanker boy.



-----------------------------------------------------------



Furthermore your hypocrisy is again exposed. In earlier posts, you
lament "black criminals" - African-Americans who are your "admixed negroids."
You have no problem calling African-Americans "black" when you can bash them
as "criminals." But when it comes to African diversity, you then
hypocritically switch, and define the same African-AMericans as "non-black."

^^Stinking hypocrite, you are exposed again. You had no
problem bashing African Americans as low IQ criminals
in posts as below, and in numerous other posts:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=006380

But all of a suddenly the same African Americans
become "non-black" when their diversity is shown.
Why is that hypocrite?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

RECAP

Tropical Africans are not static entities.
are not confined to tropical zones. This is one
of the central problems with Eurocentric models-
they want to present and use a static, stereotyped
picture of tropical Africans as somehow huddled
next to some environmental "apartheid" line-
whether it be the Sahara or the equator. Some
recap points to consider:




8-point recap

1-- The climatic zones of Africa are a moving
target historically. The Sahara was once a lush
greenbelt for example. Africans live within ALL these
zones and adapt to and change with them, just like
other humans elsewhere, but they STILL remain African.

2--Tropical Africans range throughout the
continent. They are not conveniently confined
behind some artificial climatic Jim Crow barrier
as credible mainstream scholars repeatedly show.

3-- The data on the peoples of the Nile Valley
clearly show ancient Egypt was fundamentally
populated by tropically adapted Africans.

4-- The cultural and material data, from religion
to pottery, to art, show close links between
Egyptians an other tropical Africans.

5-- Limb proportions studies repeatedly show the
same physically.

6--Tropical environments have numerous micro-
climates, from hot deserts, to cold, cool
mountains, to cold jungle, yes jungle plateaus.
Tropical Africans again, are not static. They
inhabit all these environments WITHIN the tropic
zone. Thus narrow noses on the cold slopes, in
the thin air of East African mountains are
nothing special, and don't need any "race mix" or
"wandering Caucasoid" migrations to explain why.

7--Tropical Africans are the most diverse people
in the world, and are not bound by mere
environmental factors to explain how they look.
Broad nosed, tightly curly-haired peoples appear
on cold mountain slopes, while narrow nosed,
looser-haired peoples show up on West African
savannahs and in deserts. As the cradle of
modern humanity, the African genetic pool is the
base. Thus native peoples in Africa without say a
heavy limb proportion index are not necessarily from
elsewhere outside Africa. The genetic diversity
of Africa, and the environmental diversity (including
tropical zone micro-climes or interzones) covers
a wide range.

8-- The tropical zone is right adjacent to the
sub-tropical zone, with substantial overlap. In fact
the Tropic ZOne cuts through part of Southern Egypt.
The notion that tropical people from the
Sudan cannot walk 100 miles across the artificial
climatic line of the Tropic of Cancer into
the Nile Valley, and that somehow "wandering
Caucasoids" from 900 miles distant are needed to
explain a narrow nose, is still part of the Eurocentric
mindset, and fulfills the racial agendas of that mindset.

8-- Finally tropical adaptations are deeply embedded
in humans, much more so than mere skin color,
nose shape or hair texture. This means that when
such adaptations are found, you can be sure that
the people are indeed related to those from
tropic zones. This is why ancient Egyptians cluster
with Black Americans on limb proportion measures-
both peoples are tropically derived. Again keep
in mind that a slice of SOuthern Egypt is within the
tropical climate zone.


^^The above model Brooke Bailey is "non-black"
when it comes to African diversity, but if some "African American
can be labeled a "criminal" then they and she suddenly
become "black" again..





^^Chock full of basal epithelial cells packed with melanin...
When she can be labeled a criminal she becomes "black"
but used to expose Euroccentric hypocrisy as Diop notes
she suddenly becomes "non-black" according to racist hypocrites
 

---

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
 
Zaharan, the fact you can't admit you made a mistake says a lot about your character.

Brooke Bailey in an interview admits being mixed:

quote:

---

Brooke Bailey Interviews with HennyWiz @ WizDailyDose

Hennywiz – Where are you originally from and what’s you ethnic background?

Brooke – I’m originally from South Central Los Angeles. I’m Black, Indian and French!

---

quote:

---

''Indo-European languages were, at one time, associated with a single, if composite, racial type, and that [...] racial type was an ancestral Nordic." (Coon, 1939)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
Zaharan, the fact you can't admit you made a mistake says a lot about your character.

Brooke Bailey in an interview admits being mixed:

quote:

---

Brooke Bailey Interviews with HennyWiz @ WizDailyDose

Hennywiz – Where are you originally from and what’s you ethnic background?

Brooke – I’m originally from South Central Los Angeles. I’m Black, Indian and French!

---

The question being asked was about her ethnic background. Someone who merely speaks French in the Caribbean, is not ethnically French you simpleton. Furthermore she claims to be Native American ('Indian') as well.

Are Amerindians now ''black'' you troll?

---

Bitch, don't try to run from your exposure. SHe
is from LA and she says her background is French.
This does not at all mean that she has a white
French ancestor. This is the 3rd time I ask you for
proof of your bold claim as to these white ancestors
bich. What's taking you so long? ANd "Native
American" background is minor in African Americans.
There is some, but it is minor overall- less than
that 5- 10% according to credible geneticists like Rick Kittles.
Her Native American ancestry may add up to little more
than a distant grandmother who has a minor percentage
(as shown by KIttles).
http://www.africanancestry.com/blog/2012/07/proudly-african-and-native-american-really/


Your hypocrisy is exposed. WHen you are bashing African
Americans as criminals or "ugly" you do not hesitate to call them "black."
Now when Bailey illustrates your hypocrisy, you
are trying to make out that she is "non black".
Hypocritical bich...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RECAP


^^According to racist hypocrite Anglo Buffoon she is
"black" when being bashed as a low iq criminal African American,
but suddenly becomes "non-black" with white parents
when used to illustrate Diop's observation on Eurocentric hypocrisy.
The hypocrite says women like her are "black" as
an illustration of "ugly black women." But when
the punk ass bich's hypocrisy is exposed he
quickly wants to redefine her as "non black."
------------------

^Racist hypocrite, you have no problem bashing African
Americans like Bailey and calling her black if you
can bash African-Americans as criminals and such, but now that her
picture appears illustrating Diop's take on Eurocentric
hypocrisy, all of a sudden you are calling her "non black".
You had no problem in earlier posts in bashing
women who looked quite similar to Bailey as
"ugly negroids". Now all of a sudden you want to
switch and say she ain't black no longer? Punk ass bich..


And you yourself in earlier posts had no problem stating
that most black americans had a small portion of ancestry
from non-Africans. Yet you still called them black.
Now all of a sudden your hypocrisy is exposed, you
quickly and conveniently switch to calling them
non-black? lmao... Doofus! Don't you realize you
have been set up -- a perfect illustration of the
hypocrisy Diop was talking about.




And who says Brook Bailey has white French parents?
Show us where she says her parents or grandparents
are white. And who says the French background she
refers to is from white France at all and not referring
to say a French SPEAKING ancestor from the Caribbean?
There are places out there that speak French doofus, like Haiti,
and there are black people elsewhere that speak
French with minimal white French ancestry. DUH..
Someone saying "French background" without
specifics
is meaningless. But in any case you earlier bashed
women like Bailey as "ugly". Now you are trying to
backtrack.


And don't forget your precious whites are themselves
a mixed mongrel breed which you keep running away from.
If minor percentages of white or Indian blood make
African Amerians "non black" then percentages of
"sub-Saharan" African DNA in GReeks, Italians and
other Europeans also make them "non white".
Be consistent bitch. Apply your race model consistently across the board.




Hybrid wanker....
 

---

Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
 
-----------------------

Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on 07 May, 2012 08:45 AM:

OOA never happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiregional_origin_of_modern_humans
-----------------------------------

Anglo Wanker Boy was challenged on this before and he
ran away like the punk coward he is. The idiot gives
a Wikipedia "reference" to back up his claim
but the very same "supporting reference" he gives
states that multi-regionalists acknowledge that
hominid species came from Africa in the first place.
Their argument is for continuity and distinct development in separate locations AFTER the initial
OOA exit putting hominins in different places. This
approach STILL recognizes and acknowledges hominin OOA.


Wanker boy desperately "self-assesses" for yet another
"supporting" reference..

Quote from Anglo-Idiot's "supporting" reference:


This species arose in Africa two million years ago as H. erectus and then spread out over the world, developing adaptations to regional conditions. Some populations became isolated for periods of time, developing in different directions, but through continuous interbreeding, replacement, genetic drift and selection, adaptations that were an advantage anywhere on earth would spread, keeping the development of the species in the same overall direction while maintaining adaptations to regional factors. By these mechanisms, surviving local varieties of the species evolved into modern humans, retaining some regional adaptations but with many features common to all regions.[10]

^^Note they say that their founding population Homo Erectus
came from Africa. In short, the ANglo-idiot's own
"supporting" reference contradicts his claim. What
a pathetic fool.


 

---

Posted by Vansertimavindicated (Member # 20281) on :
 
You folks do realize that Homo Erectus was a 48 chromosome ape right?

You do realize that Neanderthal was a 48 chromosome ape more distant to homo sapiens than a Gorilla or a Chimpanzee right? LOL

You see folks we have let these reprobates fool us because they are the devils making the rules! the ignorant monkeys decided to include apes like Homo erectus and Neanderthal in the homo genus making you believe that they were human. These reprobatesd then excluded Chimpanzees and Gorillas from the Homo genus because Chimpanzees and Gorillas were evolved enough to still be around on the planet and are clearly not human.

However Chimps and Gorillas are MORE human and intelligent than Neanderthal, which is why Neanderthal is genetically more distant from UNMIXED homo sapiens than a damn Chimp or Gorilla! Hahahahaha!
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:

quote:

---

''Indo-European languages were, at one time, associated with a single, if composite, racial type, and that [...] racial type was an ancestral Nordic." (Coon, 1939)

---

You didn't answer the question ho': does the presence of blond hair in Northwest Africa, necessitate that that blonde person is ''Nordid''?

---

LOL. Angho's endless cycle of popping sh!t and running when faced with impending spanking continues.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
Why are you guys arguing with Anglo-Idiot over that Brook Baily chick??! Yes she has some Euro-ancestry, but then again there are many Euros with African ancestry as well, especially Mediterraneans like the Greeks specifically. Note how hypocrite Anglo-Idiot still claims them as 'white'!

Regardless, Anglo-Idiot claims many folks in rural Sub-Sahara as 'mixed' despite NO evidence of such being the case whatsoever!!

Lastly, what the hell does ANY of this have to do with the topic below??!

For example, short mitochondrial DNA sequences have been recovered from
the remains of a liver found in a canopic jar belonging to Nekht-Ankh, a priest of the
Middle Kingdom.77 These sequences when compared to the sequences recovered from
the Delta population (Lower Egypt), it were found to be identical to four of the
modern Egyptian mitochondrial lineages. Preliminary results from PCR on the Nile
Delta population in the late 1980s found that “small subsets of modern Egyptian
mitochondrial DNA lineages are closely related to Sub-Saharan African lineages.”..

It's obvious Anglo-Idiot is only nit-picking the ancestry of a hip-hop video vixen as a distraction to desperately dodge the findings of the research above.

Of course he has the option of lying and claiming these Sub-Saharan lineages to be "Caucasoid", but hey...
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
^While I agree with the Bailey comment, ES isn't what it has been. Its no use treating the garbage site ES has grown into like some sort of elite forum where topics should be followed rigorously.

Why try to build something up when, for all you know, the owner of ES could be shutting it down tomorrow?
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
[qb]

quote:

---

''Indo-European languages were, at one time, associated with a single, if composite, racial type, and that [...] racial type was an ancestral Nordic." (Coon, 1939)

---

You didn't answer the question ho': does the presence of blond hair in Northwest Africa, necessitate that that blonde person is ''Nordid''?

---

LOL. Angho's endless cycle of popping sh!t and running when faced with impending spanking continues.


 

---

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
For everyone wondering why I described her the way I did, look at this piece, from her conclusion:

quote:

---

In conclusion, it is evident that “race” as understood today in terms of skin
color was not a key identity marker for the ancient Egyptian. Furthermore, “the first to
call special attention to the Nubian’s [Nehesi] blackness were people [the Greeks]
living outside Africa.”204 In addition, the division of mankind into races as understood
in the modern sense began with F. Bernier in the seventeenth century of our
era.205Thus the Afrocentric insistence on the ancient Egyptians as a black race proves
anachronistic and limited because the ancient Egyptian did not conceptualize himself
or herself in this way.

---

Leaving aside the issue of whether or not the Ancient Egyptians saw themselves as part of the same lineage as people to the South, how is it okay for her to be talking about the blackness of Napatan Nubians, yet, a few lines later, complain it is anachronistic to refer to Egyptians as such?

The last time I checked, the ancient Egyptians and ancient Sudanese were contemporary, and so, it would have to be anachronistic to refer to Sudanese as 'black' as well.

The fact that she doesn't treat Napatans the same as the ancient Egyptians, shows there are other motives for shying away from calling them, or at least them, sans the nationalized Asiatics and Mediterraneans, black.

Her thesis is in fact full with nagging complaints from herself and Egyptologists about why its problematic to refer to people as either black or white in a biological sense, yadi yadi yadi, only to reveal the triviality of such pretended 'expert posturing' by calling Napatan and Meroitic Nubians black several lines later.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I'm not sure if the reddish brown hue of Egyptian males had to do with concepts of the blood of life so much as the average complexion

---

It has been mentioned before by Egyptologists that the red paint may have had a youthful connotation to it, and there are several murals that confirm this, such as this one:



You don't see it in this repro, but the original image of this mural is similar to these scenes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3tPMmmmHr-I/TqI-FCSLkhI/AAAAAAAACKg/-pxuIACDy5w/s640/ancient-egyptian-circumcision.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Akmanthor.jpg

in the sense that the two figures who are doing the shooting are depicted lighter skinned (reddish), while the instructing figures behind them are depicted darker skinned (brown proper).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL I'm sure if these lineages were 'Near Eastern' or even European, we would not only know which specific lineages these were but we would NEVER heard the end of these findings.

---

Well, whatever continental origin one believes this lineage has, it is another slap in the face of those who hold that the Ancient Egyptians are identical to the moderns.

Nekht Ankh

---

Swenet - I agree with you totally. This lady is definitely pandering to somebody. What would she be bringing up "afrocentrics" for if she weren't. Who the heck is considered AFrocentric in modern academics. Is she speaking about Keita or somebody!

Her statement about being ancient Egyptians not considering themselves "racially" "black" doesn't even make sense since nobody else in Africa did either. Of course ancient Egyptians didn't have any black panther movement if that's what she's suggesting "afrocentrics" are implying. And neither did any other AFrican.

Did they consider themselves of inner AFrican origin now that's another matter.

Sounds like typical colonial African claptrap meant to impress the administrators. Too bad she's living in the wrong era though.
 

---

Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:
Sweetnet - I agree with you totally. This lady is definitely pandering to somebody. What would she be bringing up "afrocentrics" for if she weren't. Who the heck is considered AFrocentric in modern academics.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lyinass:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:
Sweetnet - I agree with you totally. This lady is definitely pandering to somebody. What would she be bringing up "afrocentrics" for if she weren't. Who the heck is considered Afrocentric in modern academics.

---

you

---

LOL Even if that's so, it does even approach to balance the scale of academia being predominantly Eurocentric from time immemorial but of course your lyinass has no issue at all with the Eurocentrism.
 

---

Posted by Ausar Amen8 (Member # 20085) on :
 
If it helps, I can confirm that my people, the Nguni, Mbo or Lala if you like(Zulu, Xhosa, Swati, Ndebele, Angoni), from South Africa to Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Tanzinia and wherever we are found we describe(d) ourselves as "abantu abansundu" which literally means "people who are BROWN". However, it differs with each individual, when we say someone is WHITE we mean that they are light, such people are the Khoisan (described as white/yellow). Folk such as Euros are considered RED to us. I have found this general thought pattern to be true of many Africans and Arabs. My thoughts are that when the AEgyptians described someone as boeng fair they meant what any average African would mean. Euros are RED.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
^Thanks for the insight.
I bet even they don't base their ethnic identity on what you say they perceive to be their color (like modern African Americans do. e.g., ''black churches'', ''black businesses'', ''black colleges'', etc). Its just them noting where they think they fit along the human color spectrum.
 

---

Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ Indeed it also explains the ridiculous antics of past European anthropologists when classifying some Africans as "true blacks" while others as brown Mediterranean or Hamitic race.
 

---

Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
 
Lol. Angho' is scared straight!
She doesn't want it, all you hear is crickets.


 

---

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ausar Amen8:
If it helps, I can confirm that my people, the Nguni, Mbo or Lala if you like(Zulu, Xhosa, Swati, Ndebele, Angoni), from South Africa to Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Tanzinia and wherever we are found we describe(d) ourselves as "abantu abansundu" which literally means "people who are BROWN". However, it differs with each individual, when we say someone is WHITE we mean that they are light, such people are the Khoisan (described as white/yellow). Folk such as Euros are considered RED to us. I have found this general thought pattern to be true of many Africans and Arabs. My thoughts are that when the AEgyptians described someone as boeng fair they meant what any average African would mean. Euros are RED.

---

This is very interesting to hear that peoples of modern southern Africa land the early pre-Turkish blacks of Arabia use the terms brown, white, and red in the same way. I am sure this goes back to very ancient times when ARabia still part of "Ethiopia" i.e. black AFrica.
 

---

Posted by dana marniche (Member # 13149) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:
... Who the heck is considered AFrocentric in modern academics.

---

you

---

Did someone die and crown you an academic now, dim nitwitted one?
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swenet:
For everyone wondering why I described her the way I did, look at this piece, from her conclusion:

quote:

---

In conclusion, it is evident that “race” as understood today in terms of skin
color was not a key identity marker for the ancient Egyptian. Furthermore, “the first to
call special attention to the Nubian’s [Nehesi] blackness were people [the Greeks]
living outside Africa.”204 In addition, the division of mankind into races as understood
in the modern sense began with F. Bernier in the seventeenth century of our
era.205Thus the Afrocentric insistence on the ancient Egyptians as a black race proves
anachronistic and limited because the ancient Egyptian did not conceptualize himself
or herself in this way.

---

Leaving aside the issue of whether or not the Ancient Egyptians saw themselves as part of the same lineage as people to the South, how is it okay for her to be talking about the blackness of Napatan Nubians, yet, a few lines later, complain it is anachronistic to refer to Egyptians as such?

The last time I checked, the ancient Egyptians and ancient Sudanese were contemporary, and so, it would have to be anachronistic to refer to Sudanese as 'black' as well.

The fact that she doesn't treat Napatans the same as the ancient Egyptians, shows there are other motives for shying away from calling them, or at least them, sans the nationalized Asiatics and Mediterraneans, black.

Her thesis is in fact full with nagging complaints from herself and Egyptologists about why its problematic to refer to people as either black or white in a biological sense, yadi yadi yadi, only to reveal the triviality of such pretended 'expert posturing' by calling Napatan and Meroitic Nubians black several lines later.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
I'm not sure if the reddish brown hue of Egyptian males had to do with concepts of the blood of life so much as the average complexion

---

It has been mentioned before by Egyptologists that the red paint may have had a youthful connotation to it, and there are several murals that confirm this, such as this one:



You don't see it in this repro, but the original image of this mural is similar to these scenes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3tPMmmmHr-I/TqI-FCSLkhI/AAAAAAAACKg/-pxuIACDy5w/s640/ancient-egyptian-circumcision.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Akmanthor.jpg

in the sense that the two figures who are doing the shooting are depicted lighter skinned (reddish), while the instructing figures behind them are depicted darker skinned (brown proper).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
LOL I'm sure if these lineages were 'Near Eastern' or even European, we would not only know which specific lineages these were but we would NEVER heard the end of these findings.

---

Well, whatever continental origin one believes this lineage has, it is another slap in the face of those who hold that the Ancient Egyptians are identical to the moderns.

Nekht Ankh

---

Swenet - I agree with you totally. This lady is definitely pandering to somebody. What would she be bringing up "afrocentrics" for if she weren't. Who the heck is considered AFrocentric in modern academics. Is she speaking about Keita or somebody!

Her statement about being ancient Egyptians not considering themselves "racially" "black" doesn't even make sense since nobody else in Africa did either. Of course ancient Egyptians didn't have any black panther movement if that's what she's suggesting "afrocentrics" are implying. And neither did any other AFrican.

Did they consider themselves of inner AFrican origin now that's another matter.

Sounds like typical colonial African claptrap meant to impress the administrators. Too bad she's living in the wrong era though.

---