I forgot about something I found a few years ago from:
The Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East 2009
author Jamie Stokes
“ Along with the San people, the Khoikhoi were the first known inhabitants of southern Africa. The Khoisan are not black Africans, but make up a unique racial category of their own. The Khoikhoi were San peoples who adopted pastoralism… ” p. 368
Are they speaking culturally or something 'cause I don't get it. Talk about the persistence of "racial thinking" i.e. Negrophobia in the Western mindset.
This continued insistence on making certain indigenous sub-Saharans populations into "blacks" i.e. "the Negro", and the others into so called non-"blacks" has made me think again about trying to publish one of my master's theses - "The Making of the Negro in National Geographic: A Content Analysis" Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Are you following the conversations in the "admixture levels in Lower Egypt" thread?
example: "DNA of ancient Egyptians matches that of modern Egyptians."
Jamie Stokes must know that there are a lot of clueless like that, otherwise he would not have the balls to write such rubbish.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike has stated that all the above people are mulattoes.
Djefruity similalry has stated that the term "black" is soley based on skin color and according to his measure of what is dark enough to be black none of the above people black.
I think that is a fair representaion of their views on the above people
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Typical lyinass distortions. She includes a Eurasian mixed Maghrebi man (in the second photo) with actual aboriginal Africans. Even the Euronuts Dana addresses are not that stupid. LOL
By the way, I don't know why you keep posting those same two cheery picked pictures of San Bushmen when there are so many photos of them.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
Mike has stated that all the above people are mulattoes.
Djefruity similalry has stated that the term "Black" is soley based on skin color and according to his measure of what is dark enough to be black none of the above people Black.
I think that is a fair representaion of their views on the above people
A typical Djefruity tactic is if he can'r handle with certain examples,that if he were to address them it would expose him, he switches to a new example. He does this all the time and other prople do it.
He has stated many times that who he regards as black has nothing to do with being African. He has stated many times that who he thinks is black is based soley on skin color. For example, he says many people from India are black,
I have posted thes above particular people. He is too cowardly to say any of these particular people are black according to his who is black theories so he posts other people.
Some San people are lighter than others Here is another San person and a man from Yemen
^^^ The nationalities of the above people are irrelevant to Djefruity's definition of "Black"
According to Djefruity's definition of Black none of the persons in this post are Black. And there is no question he will agree with that statement.
But he will not acknowledge this because he's a dishonest coward. He will to speak it out loud and his hypocrisy and double standard gets exposed over and over again.
anybody else reading this aks Mike or Djefruity your self about the specific people I have posted in this post. Mike will call them all mulattos and Djefruity will wither not comment ofn these particular San people and he will switch to new pictures. In this regard Mike would probably be more straightforward on giving an opinion on an example preented to him. Defruity will only use his own alternate examples so he can constantly move the goal post and avoid dealing with certain thing. That's why he's been described as similar to Swiss cheese.
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
I find it unbelievable that anyone could argue that the San aren't black. Any of the individuals walking down the street in London would be identified as such.
Unreal.
EDIT Although I now remember the differentiation was used by defenders of apartheid to argue that White Europeans were in Cape Town before Black Africans.
When I mentioned this with one of my professors, he said, 'they were!' and, with some force, 'it doesn't matter!'
Posted by asante-Korton (Member # 18532) on :
what is lioness definition of black?
Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
Can I read your thesis?
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
^If that question is to me then, yes, you can.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
The original bushmen were black Africans who were often much darker than the modern Khoi Khoi people like to post on this forum. People need to read the history of Namibia and what actually happened there before spouting their nonsense.
The Germans actually slaughtered quite a few KhoiKhoi in Namibia and I am sure the Boers and others did so as well.
quote: Nama (in older sources also called Namaqua) are an African ethnic group of South Africa, Namibia and Botswana. They traditionally speak the Nama language of the Khoe-Kwadi language family, although many Nama also speak Afrikaans. The Nama are the largest group of the Khoikhoi people, most of whom have largely disappeared as a group, except for the Namas. Many of the Nama clans live in Central Namibia and the other smaller groups lives Namaqualand, which today straddles the Namibian border with South Africa.
At the dawn of the 19th century, Oorlam people encroached Namaqualand and Damaraland. They likewise descended from indigenous Khoikhoi but are a group who mixed with slaves from Madagascar, India, and Indonesia. After two centuries of assimilation into the Nama culture, many Oorlams today regard Khoikhoigowab (Damara/Nama) as their mother tongue. The distinction between Namas and Oorlams has gradually disappeared over time to an extent where they are today regarded as one ethnic group, despite their different backgrounds.
quote: The Herero and Namaqua Genocide is considered to have been the first genocide of the 20th century. It took place between 1904 and 1907 in German South-West Africa (modern day Namibia), during the scramble for Africa.
On January 12, 1904, the Herero people, led by Samuel Maharero, rebelled against German colonial rule. In August, German general Lothar von Trotha defeated the Herero in the Battle of Waterberg and drove them into the desert of Omaheke, where most of them died of thirst. In October, the Nama people also rebelled against the Germans only to suffer a similar fate.
In total, from 24,000 up to 100,000 Herero and 10,000 Nama died. The genocide was characterized by widespread death by starvation and thirst because the Herero who fled the violence were prevented from returning from the Namib Desert. Some sources also claim that the German colonial army systematically poisoned desert wells.
In 1985, the United Nations' Whitaker Report classified the aftermath as an attempt to exterminate the Herero and Nama peoples of South-West Africa, and therefore one of the earliest attempts at genocide in the 20th century. The German government recognized and apologized for the events in 2004, but has ruled out financial compensation for the victims' descendants
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] The original bushmen were black Africans who were often much darker than the modern Khoi Khoi people like to post on this forum.
Doug stop bullshyitting Khoisans come in a range of skin tones you are just trying to apply True Blacksism. If some were lighter due to admixture it would reflect in their features and hair but in the examples I have shown it doesn't. In fact some San are also mixed with bantu
_______________________________________________
Doug it doesn't even matter what the history is. We are dealing with this woman here. You are saying she is not black? yes or no? Or shall I put you on the scared to answer list with Djefruity?
^^^^^ Doug's another picture switcher. He can't deal with this person so he runs away and comes back with differnt pictures. Are there any men around here?
______________________________________________
1890
________________________________________________
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
^ If any of those individuals (San) walked down a street in my neigbourhood, I would regard them as black.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Nonsense, nonsense, and more nonsense, that is what the Albino man offer's.
This man is said to be a Xhosa speaking Thembu nobleman.
His face says that he is a San.
Compare Mandela to their neighbors the Zulu:
This is last King of the free Zulu, Cetshwayo, circa 1879. He looks nothing like Mandela.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
The genetics of Southern Africa is quite complex.
Mandela is some 6 foot 4 inches tall. Hardly San in height.
On the other Jacob Zuma is Zulu but quite fair in complexion. I saw a photo of Zuma standing with other BRIC heads of state in Durban most recently and he is approximately their colour--except for Putin.
^Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that Mandela is "part" San.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Nelson Mandela many lighter skinned Africans they are only Black when they have a certain amount of sun exposure. This tanning can vary at different times
Mandela had his genetic code analysed in 2004, with some surprising results. While he is Xhosa, his mitochondrial DNA shows that he can trace his maternal lineage back to the San Bushmen, the earliest inhabitants of Africa. Mitochondrial DNA is only passed from mother to child and undergoes no genetic mixing, so it's one of the more common ways to test genetic ancestry.
Mandela's paternal line, on the other hand, was traced to a group of Africans from the Great Lakes area of East Africa. Most of SA's African population originated from this region and migrated down the continent's east coast to settle in South Africa.
yes there are some people who have acquired the ability to be Black on and off
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Nelson Mandela have a San East Asian face and brown skin tone.Probably he got is height from the Xhosa part of is blood.
Im not being prejudice, unfair or Afrocentric but white people are the greatest mass murderer in the History in this earth.The white colonialists killed more people and enslaved more people then Genghis Khan and the Mongol.All the way in peaceful paradise like South West Africa the German genocided 100,000 Herero and 10,000 peaceful hunter gatheres San.In Australia the British genocided the Tasmanian and the peaceful black aborigenes.Im not even going to mension the genocide of the Native American.White colonialist worldwide genocides of indigenous people are base on solid historical fight.Today Western countries are posing as promoter of human right and democracy while erasing black people from history, please.Somebody need to right a book on European colonial genocides and crimes.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lyinass,: ..Some San people are lighter than others Here is another San person and a man from Yemen
^^^ The nationalities of the above people are irrelevant to Djefruity's definition of "Black"
According to Djefruity's definition of Black none of the persons in this post are Black. And there is no question he will agree with that statement...
The Yemeni you posted is definitely not black as he is actually fair-skinned despite the poor lighting of the photo. Of course he does not represent an indigenous Yemeni but represents Yemenis of foreign descent likely Iranian or Circassian. Indigenous Yemenis are these folks below:
Now as for the Khoisan while the lightest may not exactly be 'black' color wise, by political definitions they would STILL be 'black' in the West.
If folks of mixed ancestry like Halle Berry and Vanessa Williams are called 'black' despite their light appearance then definitely pure Africans of similar complexions would be in the same category.
As Claus stated the obvious-- if Khoisan were to walk down London there would be no doubt to their label as 'black'. No doubt to anyone by lyinass crazies of course. Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I forgot about something I found a few years ago from:
The Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East 2009
author Jamie Stokes
“ Along with the San people, the Khoikhoi were the first known inhabitants of southern Africa. The Khoisan are not black Africans, but make up a unique racial category of their own. The Khoikhoi were San peoples who adopted pastoralism… ” p. 368
Are they speaking culturally or something 'cause I don't get it. Talk about the persistence of "racial thinking" i.e. Negrophobia in the Western mindset.
This continued insistence on making certain indigenous sub-Saharans populations into "blacks" i.e. "the Negro", and the others into so called non-"blacks" has made me think again about trying to publish one of my master's theses - "The Making of the Negro in National Geographic: A Content Analysis"
^^Yes- typical Eurocentric distortion. And notice the hypocrisy- they would not apply the same thing in reverse- they would not say for example that Greeks are not white Europeans because some have up to 25% Sub-Saharan African haplotypes. Likewise they would never go around calling Europeans "mixed race" even though conservative scholar Cavalli-Sforza shows their hybrid origins.
1-- Villena's Greek-Macedonian-African study has nothing to do with the Jew-Palestinian controversy. The study was withdrawn for political reasons, and offended sensibilities of various Jewish and other groups. Assorted "biodiversity" types try to use that to advance a bogus claim that the Greek data was "withdrawn." Total BS. It is alive and well and appears specifically in Vilenna's Greek study: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks Tissue Antigens 2001: 57: 118–127 Jewish - Palestinian controversies have nothing to do with it.
2-- The Palestinian study also notes that Greeks are related to Africans via cystic fibrosis mutations.
3-- It is true that the data being used is highly variable HLA genes. However the presence of Japanese clustering with south Africans is not as far fetched as it seems. HLA genes are useful in analyzing certain arthritis conditions. There is hard medical data in various HLA studies that indeed show Japanese and south African blacks grouping together in relation to arthritis conditions. See the data below.
4-- Anthro/Archaeo data show the presence of African traits (and remember Africans have a wide variety of traits) in the Neolithic data. The full info has already been posted but here is some anthro/archaeo data affirming the presence of "negroid" traits from early times: quote: "The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' .. traits in the face." The skull is fairly complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania... " -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
"Early Neolithic Macedonia centered on a Dinaric-Mediterranean (type F) average but with an extremely broad nose, more prognathism, and a little more mouth tilt than expected (all, perhaps from negroid development of the incisor region.." -- The people of Lerna: analysis of a prehistoric Aegean population. J.L Angel 1971
"The portrayal on the 'minature fresco' from Thera, and on the other, very fragmentary Aegean frescoes, of diverse stylistic elements- flora a nd fauna, 'negroid' human representations, the riverine setting, of the 'minature fresco,' etc- that seem to be north African, 'Libyan' or Egyptian in origin." --The Aegean and the Orient in the second millennium: proceedings of the 50th anniversary symposium, Cincinnati, 18-20 April 1997
"The inhabitants of the Aegean area in the Bronze Age may have been much like many people in the Mediterranean basin today, short and slight of build with dark hair and eyes and sallow complexions. Skeletons show that the population of the Aegean was already mixed by Neolithic times, and various facial types, some with delicate features and pointed noses, others pug-nosed, almost negroid, are depicted in wall paintings from the 16th century BC..." -- The Home of the Heroes: The Aegean Before the Greeks (1967)
------------------ Scholars also link the Negroid elements to sickle-cell anemia------- QUOTE: "The female from Grave 2 is among those with thickened parietals. It should be pointed out that maxillary prognathsm, one of the skeleton's "Negroid" features, is characteristic both of thalassemia and sickle-cell anemia." -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
5-- Other elements like Benin Sickle Cell traits are also found among the Greeks and various Africans and some skeletal/cranial studies find African elements in Greece (Angel 1972 for example) QUOTE:
"A late Pleistocene-early Holocene northward migration (from Africa to the Levant and to Anatolia) of these populations has been hypothesized from skeletal data (Angel 1972, 1973; Brace 2005) and from archaeological data, as indicated by the probable Nile Valley origin of the "Mesolithic" (epi-Paleolithic) Mushabi culture found in the Levant (Bar Yosef 1987). This migration finds some support in the presence in Mediterranean populations (Sicily, Greece, southern Turkey, etc.; Patrinos et al.; Schiliro et al. 1990) of the Benin sickle cell haplotype. This haplotype originated in West Africa and is probably associated with the spread of malaria to southern Europe through an eastern Mediterranean route (Salares et al. 2004) following the expansion of both human and mosquito populations brought about by the advent of the Neolithic transition (Hume et al 2003; Joy et al. 2003; Rich et al 1998). This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005), in concordance with a process of demic diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
-- F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
6-- Other cultural/archaeo data testify to the African presence, africans again having a wde range of features
QUOTES "THE FORERUNNERS During the Early Minoan period the population of southern Crete may have included a Negroid element. The presence of such an element from Libya in the Cretan population has been argued on the basis of an inlay of shell now in the Ashmolean Museum. This inlay may have come from an early circular tomb at Ayios Onouphrios. It depects a bearded face, with thick lips and snub nose. Other objects might lead to the same observaton for later periods. Among the faiences showing house fronts (Middle Minoan II)15 there is one in which are seen the prow of a ship and swarthy, prognathous, clearly Negroid people, some steatopygic... It is uncertain, however, what role to assign to the non-Minoan figures in this scene, which it has been suggested, may represent the represent the siege of a seacoast town. Scholars are in greater agreement with respect to their interpretations of the coal black spearmen who appear in a fragment of a fresco, which Evans called The Captain of the Blacks, belonging to Late Minoan 145 II.18 The fresco depicts a Minoan captain, wearing a yellow kilt and a horned cap of skin, who leads, at the double, a file of black men similarly dressed." -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
"The Theran is a young man whose black wavy hairm rather thick lips, and nose with reduced platyrrniny are clearly shown. Although he acknowledges that these traits suggest a NEgrito or Nubian, Marinatos avoids precise anthropological definition and concludes that the characteristics seem to indicate an "African".
"An intrepretation of NEgroes in Crete and Pylos as soldiers would have some support in the example of Egypt, with its long tradition of Nubian mercenaries. A striking example, belonging somewhat earlier period that that of the Minoan Captain of the Blacks fresco, is provided by the wooden models of forthy black archers in Cairo, found in a tomb of a prince of Assiut." pg 138
L. Bertholon and E. Chantre have analyzed results of black-white crossings in their detailed anthropoligical study of ancient and modern Tripolitiana, Tunisia, and Algeria. They call attention to the degrees of Negro admixture as evidenced by the extent to which Negroid features appear in mixed North African peoples. R. Bartoccini in his study of the somatic characteristics of anciet Libyans, illustrates his observations on racial crossings between Libyans and Negroes from the interior by pointing to the Negroid nose (broad) and hair (curly or wooly) .."
"Some of the physical features of this type are: dark or black color expressed in a variety of ways, tightly curled platyrrhine nose, and thick, often everted lips. '
"In a scene on a red-figured calyx-krater of the peropd from Canicattoni, now in Syracuse, a female dancer, fully draped, stands on tiptoe. The treatment of the nose, the lips and the tightly curled hair indicates that Negroid features were intended.. the realism and anthropological fidelity of those cited above leave no doubt as to the artists' intent.." pg 171 -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
-------------------------------
7.. ADDITIONAL DATA: AFRICAN HAPLOGROUP E FOUND IN GREEKS
QUOTE: "Underhill et al. (2001) showed that the frequency of the YAP+ Y haplogroup commonly referred to as haplogroup E or (III) is relatively high (about 25%) in the Middle East and Mediterranean. This haplogroup E is the major haplogroup found in sub-Saharan Africa (over 75% of all Y chromosomes). SPecifically, Europeans contain the E3b subhaplogroup, which was derived from haplogroup E in sub-Saharan Africa and currently is distributed along the North and East of Africa.. It appears that the 171 AIM test subject of this chapter may recognize the haplogroup E character as West African."
--T. Frudakis. 2006. Molecular photofitting: predicting ancestry and phenotype using DNA Well according to genetic analyses the Greeks are close to 1/4th black carrying 23% African paternal lineages.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche: I forgot about something I found a few years ago from:
The Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East 2009
author Jamie Stokes
“ Along with the San people, the Khoikhoi were the first known inhabitants of southern Africa. The Khoisan are not black Africans, but make up a unique racial category of their own. The Khoikhoi were San peoples who adopted pastoralism… ” p. 368
Are they speaking culturally or something 'cause I don't get it. Talk about the persistence of "racial thinking" i.e. Negrophobia in the Western mindset.
This continued insistence on making certain indigenous sub-Saharans populations into "blacks" i.e. "the Negro", and the others into so called non-"blacks" has made me think again about trying to publish one of my master's theses - "The Making of the Negro in National Geographic: A Content Analysis"
^^Yes- typical Eurocentric distortion. And notice the hypocrisy- they would not apply the same thing in reverse- they would not say for example that Greeks are not white Europeans because some have up to 25% Sub-Saharan African haplotypes. Likewise they would never go around calling Europeans "mixed race" even though conservative scholar Cavalli-Sforza shows their hybrid origins.
1-- Villena's Greek-Macedonian-African study has nothing to do with the Jew-Palestinian controversy. The study was withdrawn for political reasons, and offended sensibilities of various Jewish and other groups. Assorted "biodiversity" types try to use that to advance a bogus claim that the Greek data was "withdrawn." Total BS. It is alive and well and appears specifically in Vilenna's Greek study: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks Tissue Antigens 2001: 57: 118–127 Jewish - Palestinian controversies have nothing to do with it.
2-- The Palestinian study also notes that Greeks are related to Africans via cystic fibrosis mutations.
3-- It is true that the data being used is highly variable HLA genes. However the presence of Japanese clustering with south Africans is not as far fetched as it seems. HLA genes are useful in analyzing certain arthritis conditions. There is hard medical data in various HLA studies that indeed show Japanese and south African blacks grouping together in relation to arthritis conditions. See the data below.
4-- Anthro/Archaeo data show the presence of African traits (and remember Africans have a wide variety of traits) in the Neolithic data. The full info has already been posted but here is some anthro/archaeo data affirming the presence of "negroid" traits from early times: quote: "The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' .. traits in the face." The skull is fairly complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania... " -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
"Early Neolithic Macedonia centered on a Dinaric-Mediterranean (type F) average but with an extremely broad nose, more prognathism, and a little more mouth tilt than expected (all, perhaps from negroid development of the incisor region.." -- The people of Lerna: analysis of a prehistoric Aegean population. J.L Angel 1971
"The portrayal on the 'minature fresco' from Thera, and on the other, very fragmentary Aegean frescoes, of diverse stylistic elements- flora a nd fauna, 'negroid' human representations, the riverine setting, of the 'minature fresco,' etc- that seem to be north African, 'Libyan' or Egyptian in origin." --The Aegean and the Orient in the second millennium: proceedings of the 50th anniversary symposium, Cincinnati, 18-20 April 1997
"The inhabitants of the Aegean area in the Bronze Age may have been much like many people in the Mediterranean basin today, short and slight of build with dark hair and eyes and sallow complexions. Skeletons show that the population of the Aegean was already mixed by Neolithic times, and various facial types, some with delicate features and pointed noses, others pug-nosed, almost negroid, are depicted in wall paintings from the 16th century BC..." -- The Home of the Heroes: The Aegean Before the Greeks (1967)
------------------ Scholars also link the Negroid elements to sickle-cell anemia------- QUOTE: "The female from Grave 2 is among those with thickened parietals. It should be pointed out that maxillary prognathsm, one of the skeleton's "Negroid" features, is characteristic both of thalassemia and sickle-cell anemia." -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
5-- Other elements like Benin Sickle Cell traits are also found among the Greeks and various Africans and some skeletal/cranial studies find African elements in Greece (Angel 1972 for example) QUOTE:
"A late Pleistocene-early Holocene northward migration (from Africa to the Levant and to Anatolia) of these populations has been hypothesized from skeletal data (Angel 1972, 1973; Brace 2005) and from archaeological data, as indicated by the probable Nile Valley origin of the "Mesolithic" (epi-Paleolithic) Mushabi culture found in the Levant (Bar Yosef 1987). This migration finds some support in the presence in Mediterranean populations (Sicily, Greece, southern Turkey, etc.; Patrinos et al.; Schiliro et al. 1990) of the Benin sickle cell haplotype. This haplotype originated in West Africa and is probably associated with the spread of malaria to southern Europe through an eastern Mediterranean route (Salares et al. 2004) following the expansion of both human and mosquito populations brought about by the advent of the Neolithic transition (Hume et al 2003; Joy et al. 2003; Rich et al 1998). This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005), in concordance with a process of demic diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
-- F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
6-- Other cultural/archaeo data testify to the African presence, africans again having a wde range of features
QUOTES "THE FORERUNNERS During the Early Minoan period the population of southern Crete may have included a Negroid element. The presence of such an element from Libya in the Cretan population has been argued on the basis of an inlay of shell now in the Ashmolean Museum. This inlay may have come from an early circular tomb at Ayios Onouphrios. It depects a bearded face, with thick lips and snub nose. Other objects might lead to the same observaton for later periods. Among the faiences showing house fronts (Middle Minoan II)15 there is one in which are seen the prow of a ship and swarthy, prognathous, clearly Negroid people, some steatopygic... It is uncertain, however, what role to assign to the non-Minoan figures in this scene, which it has been suggested, may represent the represent the siege of a seacoast town. Scholars are in greater agreement with respect to their interpretations of the coal black spearmen who appear in a fragment of a fresco, which Evans called The Captain of the Blacks, belonging to Late Minoan 145 II.18 The fresco depicts a Minoan captain, wearing a yellow kilt and a horned cap of skin, who leads, at the double, a file of black men similarly dressed." -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
"The Theran is a young man whose black wavy hairm rather thick lips, and nose with reduced platyrrniny are clearly shown. Although he acknowledges that these traits suggest a NEgrito or Nubian, Marinatos avoids precise anthropological definition and concludes that the characteristics seem to indicate an "African".
"An intrepretation of NEgroes in Crete and Pylos as soldiers would have some support in the example of Egypt, with its long tradition of Nubian mercenaries. A striking example, belonging somewhat earlier period that that of the Minoan Captain of the Blacks fresco, is provided by the wooden models of forthy black archers in Cairo, found in a tomb of a prince of Assiut." pg 138
L. Bertholon and E. Chantre have analyzed results of black-white crossings in their detailed anthropoligical study of ancient and modern Tripolitiana, Tunisia, and Algeria. They call attention to the degrees of Negro admixture as evidenced by the extent to which Negroid features appear in mixed North African peoples. R. Bartoccini in his study of the somatic characteristics of anciet Libyans, illustrates his observations on racial crossings between Libyans and Negroes from the interior by pointing to the Negroid nose (broad) and hair (curly or wooly) .."
"Some of the physical features of this type are: dark or black color expressed in a variety of ways, tightly curled platyrrhine nose, and thick, often everted lips. '
"In a scene on a red-figured calyx-krater of the peropd from Canicattoni, now in Syracuse, a female dancer, fully draped, stands on tiptoe. The treatment of the nose, the lips and the tightly curled hair indicates that Negroid features were intended.. the realism and anthropological fidelity of those cited above leave no doubt as to the artists' intent.." pg 171 -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
-------------------------------
7.. ADDITIONAL DATA: AFRICAN HAPLOGROUP E FOUND IN GREEKS
QUOTE: "Underhill et al. (2001) showed that the frequency of the YAP+ Y haplogroup commonly referred to as haplogroup E or (III) is relatively high (about 25%) in the Middle East and Mediterranean. This haplogroup E is the major haplogroup found in sub-Saharan Africa (over 75% of all Y chromosomes). SPecifically, Europeans contain the E3b subhaplogroup, which was derived from haplogroup E in sub-Saharan Africa and currently is distributed along the North and East of Africa.. It appears that the 171 AIM test subject of this chapter may recognize the haplogroup E character as West African."
--T. Frudakis. 2006. Molecular photofitting: predicting ancestry and phenotype using DNA Well according to genetic analyses the Greeks are close to 1/4th black carrying 23% African paternal lineages.
LOL! You got to love the way they try and cushion the blow of the obvious African admixture by trying to pretend that black features couldn't have been found in North Africa so they must have come from further South, as in the South of Libya or as in Nubians. In other words, sounding quite retarded by trying to claim that these blacks couldn't have come from North Africa... Actually this makes the blow even worse, since now not only did Africans from close by in North Africa have a presence but also those from further south...... LOL.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The Yemeni you posted is definitely not black as he is actually fair-skinned despite the poor lighting of the photo.
idiotic
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Exactly what is so idiotic? The guy is in poor lighting yet everyone with eyes can see it is a fair-skinned Asiatic man. YOUR hypocritical lyinass would complain all the time about the pics I spam where the folks have "poor lighting" or are in "heavy shade" even though the folks are clearly black.
You even called this indigenous Egyptian man an "Arab in heavy shadow"
You are a pathetic and utter moron as well as a loser. GTFOH Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Yes- typical Eurocentric distortion. And notice the hypocrisy- they would not apply the same thing in reverse- they would not say for example that Greeks are not white Europeans because some have up to 25% Sub-Saharan African haplotypes. Likewise they would never go around calling Europeans "mixed race" even though conservative scholar Cavalli-Sforza shows their hybrid origins.
Indeed, the Euronuts are quick to call out 'Eurasian' ancestry for entire ethnic groups or nationalities when supposedly non-African hgs occur at minute frequencies yet don't say a damn thing about a third of European men having E lineages.
And negrophobic folks like lyinass are so hypocritical they try to call in to question the label of 'black' for indigenous Africans and use outliers like Khoisan an example but say NOTHING about the label of 'white' for indigenous Europeans even if many Europeans especially in southern Europe are darker than your typical 'lily white'.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The Yemeni you posted is definitely not black as he is actually fair-skinned despite the poor lighting of the photo.
idiotic
there is clearly something wrong with this Defuity* character. I post a man in good lighting and most pictures he posts are in heavy shadow as below
when will it end?
*aka the Shadow
watch:
truth be told, put this guy in shadow and he could be the abve guy's Dad.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Exactly what is so idiotic? The guy is in poor lighting yet everyone with eyes can see it is a fair-skinned Asiatic man.
yes and the emperor is wearing clothes. Only a Djefuity would call this man "fair skinned". You have truly gone over the deep end.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
YOUR hypocritical lyinass would complain all the time about the pics I spam where the folks have "poor lighting" or are in "heavy shade" even though the folks are clearly black.
^^^^ Defruity trying to pass this off as a "clearly black" Egyptian
Mike, what do you think of our resident self appointed "expert on blacks" ? As we can "clearly see" his black-ometer has a missing screw
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
And negrophobic folks like lyinass are so hypocritical they try to call in to question the label of 'black' for indigenous Africans and use outliers like Khoisan an example but say NOTHING about the label of 'white' for indigenous Europeans even if many Europeans especially in southern Europe are darker than your typical 'lily white'.
^^^ see what's revealed here, an enthusiast of "The Negro" urging people not to fear The Negro
I told your ass before white is a ridiculous term
-and the term 'black' only makes it seem legitimate to use skin color as a main identity
That's why I've always prefered 'African American' or 'African' or just 'American'
'black' actually comes from the European. It is mearly the English word for Negro and we've been tricked into accepting it. Some of my MST folks realize this.
But you Djefuity think this word 'black' and 'white' are dandy.
O.k. then what the hell are you a 'brown' or 'yellow" ????
So be proud like Black people are supposed to be proud of "being Black" and tell us what is your color ????
-or do only certain people get called color words ???
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche Just to remind you of where some are still coming from
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
