João I of Kongo (died 1506), alias Nzinga a Nkuwu or Nkuwu Nzinga, was ruler of the Kingdom of Kongo between 1470–1506. He was baptized as João in 3 May 1491 by Portuguese missionaries
King Nzinga a Nkuwu was the fourth or fifth ruler of Kongo.[1] He was married to Queen Nzinga a Nlaza, a first cousin.[2] She had a son by the king named Nzinga Mbemba. She would later help him become king of Kongo after her husband's death.[2] Under the reign of Nzinga a Nkuwu, Kongo had grown to 100,000 square kilometres and contained a very centralised government
In 1483, a Portuguese caravel captained by Diogo Cão reached the estuary of the Congo River and made contact with subjects of the king.[4] Cão sailed back to Portugal carrying a party of Kongo emissaries. On arrival in Lisbon, the emissaries were baptized and placed in a monastery before returning to the king in 1491.[5]
Along with the emissaries came Portuguese priests, masons, carpenters and soldiers plus European goods.[5] The ships anchored at Mpinda and after a brief halt to baptise the governor of Soyo, uncle to the manikongo, the procession went on to the capital where they were greeted by the king and 5 of his leading nobles
On 3 May 1491, the king of Kongo was baptised along with his family.[6] Initially, only the king and his nobles were to be converted, but the queen demanded to be baptised.[2] Kongo's royal family took the names of their Portuguese counterparts, thus João, Eleanor (or Leanor in some instances) and Afonso.[7] A thousand subjects were detailed to help the Portuguese carpenters build a church, meanwhile the Portuguese soldiers accompanied the king in a campaign to defend the province of Nsundi from BaTeke raiders.[6] The European firearms were decisive in the victory and many captives were taken
Most of the Portuguese later departed with slaves and ivory while leaving behind priests and craftsmen.[6] After this cultural honeymoon, the king's profession of the Catholic faith proved short lived.[6] His life ended in 1506. He was succeeded by his son via the Queen, Afonso
King Alvaro II of Kongo with Dutch Ambassadors
Álvaro II Nimi a Nkanga was king of Kongo from 1587 to 1614. He was one of Kongo's most powerful and important kings, who succeeded his father Álvaro I, but not until resolving a dispute with his brother. Both sides brought armies to São Salvador but to avoid bloodshed they agreed to single combat, won by Álvaro.
Álvaro faced serious problems with other nobles besides his brother, and in 1590-91 was racked by a serious, though poorly documented, civil war. In order to reestablish his authority, Álvaro had to accept the virtual independence of Miguel, the count of Soyo. In order to recognize those nobles who had been loyal to him during this struggle, Álvaro began granting habits of the Order of Christ to his followers. Although the Portuguese crown complained to the Pope about this, claiming that the King of Portugal, as Grand Master of the Order was the only one to grant such habits, in fact, Kongo kings would establish this order (see Order of Christ (Kongo Empire)) and continued to knight their followers in it right through the nineteenth century.
During Álvaro's reign, the capital city, São Salvador was recognized as the capital of the diocese of then Portuguese Congo and Angola, and the first bishop was appointed, in 1596. However, because the kings of Portugal claimed the right of Padroado (patronage), they chose their own bishop. Constant struggles between the king and the bishop followed.
Kongo's relations with Portuguese Angola worsened during Álvaro's reign, and he complained bitterly about the behaviour of the governors to the King of Spain (then also ruling Portugal during the period of the Iberian Union).
In 1604–1608, Alvaro II sent an ambassador to Pope Paul V in the person of Emanuele Ne Vunda
King of Kongo Manuel Alfonso Nzinga
Manuel Afonso Nzinga a Nlenke was a ruler of Kibangu and was one of the two main Kinlaza claimants to the throne of the Kingdom of Kongo during its civil war, the other being the King of Lemba. He ruled the Kingdom of Kibangu from 1685 to 1688.[1]
When Manuel Afonso ascended to the throne of Kibangu, there were those who were opposed to his claim to the Kingdom of Kongo, and an internal struggle for the throne of Kibangu began. The leaders of those against Manuel Afonso's rule were two brothers of the Água Rosada house, the product of one Kinlaza parent, and one Kimpanzu parent. The brothers' faction was eventually successful in 1688, and the older of the two, Álvaro, gained the throne of Kibangu
Mani Mondaba Queen of Kongo
Queen Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba
Queen Nzinga meeting with Portuguese governor Joao De Souza
Queen Anne Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba
Queen Nzinga (Nzinga Mbande), the monarch of the Mbundu people, was a resilient leader who fought against the Portuguese and their expanding slave trade in Central Africa.
During the late 16th Century, the French and the English threatened the Portuguese near monopoly on the sources of slaves along the West African coast, forcing it to seek new areas for exploitation. By 1580 they had already established a trading relationship with Afonso I in the nearby Kongo Kingdom. They then turned to Angola, south of the Kongo.
The Portuguese established a fort and settlement at Luanda in 1617, encroaching on Mbundu land. In 1622 they invited Ngola (King) Mbande to attend a peace conference there to end the hostilities with the Mbundu. Mbande sent his sister, Nzinga, to represent him in a meeting with Portuguese Governor Joao Corria de Sousa. Nzinga was aware of her diplomatically awkward position. She knew of events in the Kongo which had led to Portuguese domination of the nominally independent nation. She also recognized, however, that to refuse to trade with the Portuguese would remove a potential ally and the major source of guns for her own state.
In the first of a series of meetings Nzinga sought to establish her equality with the representative of the Portugal crown. Noting that the only chair in the room belonged to Governor Corria, she immediately motioned to one of her assistants who fell on her hands and knees and served as a chair for Nzinga for the rest of the meeting.
Despite that display, Nzinga made accommodations with the Portuguese. She converted to Christianity and adopted the name Dona Anna de Souza. She was baptized in honor of the governor's wife who also became her godmother. Shortly afterwards Nzinga urged a reluctant Ngola Mbande to order the conversion of his people to Christianity.
In 1626 Nzinga became Queen of the Mbundu when her brother committed suicide in the face of rising Portuguese demands for slave trade concessions. Nzinga, however, refused to allow them to control her nation. In 1627, after forming alliances with former rival states, she led her army against the Portuguese, initiating a thirty year war against them. She exploited European rivalry by forging an alliance with the Dutch who had conquered Luanda in 1641. With their help, Nzinga defeated a Portuguese army in 1647. When the Dutch were in turn defeated by the Portuguese the following year and withdrew from Central Africa, Nzinga continued her struggle against the Portuguese. Now in her 60s she still personally led troops in battle. She also orchestrated guerilla attacks on the Portuguese which would continue long after her death and inspire the ultimately successful 20th Century armed resistance against the Portuguese that resulted in independent Angola in 1975.
Despite repeated attempts by the Portuguese and their allies to capture or kill Queen Nzinga, she died peacefully in her eighties on December 17, 1663
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Kingdom of Kongo Ambassadors to the Papal state.
Kongo Ambassador to the Papacy Emanuele Ne Vunda
Emanuele Ne Vunda (died 1608), also Antonio Emanuele Ne Vunda, or Antonio Emmanuele Funta, was an ambassador from Congo, sent by the king of Congo Alvaro II to Pope Paul V in 1604–1608.[1] Ne-Vunda traveled through Brazil and Spain and only reached Rome on 3 January 1608, but he died two days later of illness.
A 1608–1609 bust of Ne-Vunda made in colored marble can be seen at Santa Maria Maggiore, by Francesco Caporale.[2]
A painting of Emanuele Ne Vunda is visible in the Sala dei Corazzieri, Palazzo del Quirinale in Rome, next to a painting depicting the 1615 embassy of Hasekura Tsunenaga from Japan
Ambassador Antonio Emanuele ne Vunda
Ambassador Antonio Emanuele Ne Vunda
Ambassador Emanuele Ne Vunda
Ambassador Emanuele Ne Vunda statue
ambassador don Antonio Manuel de Funta
Ambassador Dan Antonio Manuel De Funta
Kingdom of Kongo nobleman in Brazil don Miguel De Castro.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
mena7 - That is not really the Ambassador of Kongo. The Albino people use that to explain Blacks in Europe just like they sometimes identify the Black person as a Slave or a Servant.
Look at the picture, what about it, or the expressions or dress of the men, suggests that the Black man is a foreigner - NOTHING! If some lying Albino had not told you that the Black man did not belong, you would never know it by looking at the picture.
The fact is that the Black man looks like a lord and he is angry with the men behind him.
Also note that all the paintings are suppose to be of Antonio Emanuele Ne Vunda, yet they are all paintings of different men.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: mena7 - That is not really the Ambassador of Kongo.
mena you might like some of Mike' stuff but sometimes he lies
This is one of those times.
He is trying to remove the Africaness of this man.
It's not right
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Mike you are right the paintings and statues of the Kingdom of Kongo ambassador Antonio Emanuel Ne Vunda doesn't look like the same person. Maybe the European artists make a mistake, maybe they are the pictures of the European black nobility. I don't know, I have no choice but calling them Emanuele Ne Vunda ambassador of Kongo to the Papacy.
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Other Ambassadors to Pope Paul V. Pope Paul V
Pope Paul V (Latin: Paulus V; 17 September 1552 – 28 January 1621), born Camillo Borghese, was Pope from 16 May 1605 to his death in 1621
Japanese Ambassador to Pope Paul V Hasekura Tsunegaga
Japanese Ambassador Hasekura Tsunegaga to Pope Paul V
Hasekura Rokuemon Tsunenaga (or "Francisco Felipe Faxicura", as he was baptized in Spain) (1571–1622) (Japanese: 支倉六右衛門常長, also spelled Faxecura Rocuyemon in period European sources, reflecting the contemporary pronunciation of Japanese)[1] was a Japanese samurai and retainer of Date Masamune, the daimyo of Sendai.
In the years 1613 through 1620, Hasekura headed a diplomatic mission to the Vatican in Rome, traveling through New Spain (arriving in Acapulco and departing from Veracruz) and visiting various ports-of-call in Europe. This historic mission is called the Keichō Embassy (慶長使節), and follows the Tenshō embassy (天正使節) of 1582.[2] On the return trip, Hasekura and his companions re-traced their route across Mexico in 1619, sailing from Acapulco for Manila, and then sailing north to Japan in 1620.[3] He is conventionally considered the first Japanese ambassador in the Americas and in Europe.[4]
Although Hasekura's embassy was cordially received in Europe, it happened at a time when Japan was moving toward the suppression of Christianity. European monarchs such as the King of Spain thus refused the trade agreements Hasekura had been seeking. Hasekura returned to Japan in 1620 and died of illness a year later, his embassy seemingly ending with few results in an increasingly isolationist Japan.
Japan's next embassy to Europe would only occur more than 200 years later, following two centuries of isolation, with the "First Japanese Embassy to Europe" in 1862.
Japanese delegation
Ambassador Ne Vunta and Ambassador Tsunegaga
Safavid Persian Ambassador to the Papacy
Ottoman Turk ambassador to the Papacy
Emissaries of the Kingdom of Kongo to Brazil.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by mena7: Mike you are right the paintings and statues of the Kingdom of Kongo ambassador Antonio Emanuel Ne Vunda doesn't look like the same person. Maybe the European artists make a mistake, maybe they are the pictures of the European black nobility. I don't know, I have no choice but calling them Emanuele Ne Vunda ambassador of Kongo to the Papacy.
Ndop were figurative sculptures representing different kings (nyim) of the Kuba kingdom. Although the sculptural genre appears naturalistic, ndop are not actual one-to-one representations of particular subjects, but rather a culmination of visual notations that represented the ideal characteristics of the deceased king. The reign of individual rulers are identified by a small emblem, called an ibol, at the base of the sculpture. Each ibol is rendered with a great degree of customization and personalization in an otherwise formal and naturalistic standardization.[1] Measuring about 48-55 centimeters in height, ndop were carved in hardwood and anointed with palm oil to protect them from insects, which is unique in African art and underscores their survival in Western collections today. Ndop sculptures depict subjects sitting cross-legged, a posture that is equally unique in African sculpture.
Ndop frequently portray the ruler carrying a weapon in his left hand, an ikul or peace knife, made in the style reserved for the Bushoong, the dominant sub-group of the Kuba. The wooden portraits were kept in the king's quarters with other sculptures referred to as 'royal charms', upon which the king's magical powers rested. When the king was absent from the capital, the ndop were rubbed with oil.
Ndop Kuba king Miko Mbul
Ndop Kuba king
Kuba/Cuba King
Japanese Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu seated in the same position as the Kuba kings with his sword.
.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike, did you ever think to research Kongo royals acquiring European clothing ??
or are you just trying to stir false innuendo ?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^You stupid Bitch, did I say or imply that "CLOTHING" was "THE" issue?
Here let me help with your writing comprehension:
The Teutonic cross is one of THE issues, because an African would not be allowed to wear it.
The ROYAL CORONET (the cap) and ROYAL INSIGNIA is another of THE issues, because an African wearing them would likely be executed.
See how easy logical thought is when you are pursuing truth instead of trying to spread lies.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
The Teutonic cross is one of THE issues, because an African would not be allowed to wear it.
The ROYAL CORONET (the cap) and ROYAL INSIGNIA is another of THE issues, because an African wearing them would likely be executed.
mena this is disgusting. This is more than just talking in a forum..
what he is saying about Prince Nicolau and how Africans would be executed if the wore this cross in the picture is a LIE. It a LIE He has no source to back it up because he made it up.
Mike has a website and a lot of people read it everyday He is mis-educating black people and lying to us about African history. He is trying to say this is not an African prince it's a European prince.
Mike does more damage to African history than white racists to on their websites.
If you looked at a website run by the KKK you would know that if they spoke about history it would be distorted by their hatred of black people. Black people would know it would have lies in it right form the beginning.
But when they look at Mike's website it looks friendly to Black people. So when Mike LIES about AFRICAN HISTORY because he hates Africans and never to Africa, there Black people reading hiw website who don't know that and might believe some of these LIES and this stuff hurts African History
Mike is poison to African History. You need to do something about it and not just sit there. It's not just talk on a forum. He has a website and is acting like it's facts not just opinion articles.
If you look in a magazine the have a News section and they have another section called Opinion or Editorial, The News is supposed to be fact and the Opinion/Editorial section is supposed to be opinion.
Mike takes opinion and crazy hate African based history theories and and tries to make it seem like it's like fact in an encyclopedia. It hurts Africa
Portuguese priest converting, brainwashing, enslaving the Kongolese King, noble and people to European version of Christianity. This is Africans greatest mistake converting to the European religion. Once you converted to their religion they owned you and will make you do every bad things in the name of God.
The Kongoleses of the Kingdom of Kongo should have known better. The kongolese should have copied the original Christianity of the Egyptian called Heru krast and created a modern African version of it. After that they should have gone in a mission to convert Africa, Asia, Europe, America to their version of Christianity. If the Kongoleses had done that The Kingdom of Kongo would have been one of the most powerful and richest country in the world today.
Kongolese being converted to Euro Christianity.
wolf in sheep clothing. First the Europeans came as peaceful traders and friends of the Kongoleses. Later they became the masters of the Kongolese servant Kings, serf nobles and enslaved people.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
A "REAL" African Prince, but I have no info. If anyone knows who this is, please post.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
My apologies to all who follow my work, I rushed through my analysis of this young prince. My errors, some are pretty silly, are as follows.
I assumed that only the British used CORONETS: (the style fit perfectly with the examples of British coronets that I found). Not so, the Holy Roman Empire used coronets too, they were called Adelskrone/Rangkrone.
Here is the worst one of my FPs.
I stupidly assumed that because the "Cross Pattee" was on all British Crowns, that it was a British icon.
Not so, it was actually first used in the domains of the Holy Roman Empire called "Tatzenkreuz": the most famous of which is "The Iron Cross" on the left below, and a closed variant on the right.
Note that they match the Black princes coronet perfectly.
In short: he was NOT a British prince, he was a Holy Roman Empire Prince!
Of course the Holy Roman Empire had no great dealings with the Kongo, so that premise is still just as ridiculous. Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: A "REAL" African Prince, but I have no info. If anyone knows who this is, please post.
He's King Daudi Cwa II of Buganda, the biggest kingdom of the 5 that form present day Uganda.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
The Portuguese gave him those clothes, he was a collaborationist and introduced mass slavery in the zone, starting kidnapping the people of the neighbouring kingdoms to feed the hunger of slaves of the Portuguese.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: The Portuguese gave him those clothes, he was a collaborationist and introduced mass slavery in the zone, starting kidnapping the people of the neighbouring kingdoms to feed the hunger of slaves of the Portuguese.
Thanks for the Info.
Really puts in perspective, How uncle toms have devastated The Continent .
Smile in there Face and they ready to kill there brothers for a cup of tea.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
He's King Daudi Cwa II of Buganda, the biggest kingdom of the 5 that form present day Uganda.
Thank you TheAfricaTNSY.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
This is supposed to be Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor after Charles V.
.
. Ha,ha,ha,ha:
A Black man wearing a White mans wig.
Sometimes the Albinos make the funniest fakes. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Anyone know what that dead animal around his neck means?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^I'm assuming that it's a Ermine/Weasel.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
.
King Daudi Cwa II of Buganda
Uganda, an Historical Accident?: Class, Nation, State Formation By Ramkrishna Mukherjee
Protest and Resistance in Angola and Brazil: Comparative Studies - Google Books Result books.google.com/books?isbn=0520018788 Ronald H. Chilcote - 1972 - 317 pages
^^^ when some research is done rather than making wild assumptions about clothing
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: when some research is done rather than making wild assumptions about clothing
I'm sorry liones, I missed the part where you proved that the picture was of Prince Nicolas of Kongo. Could you please go over that part again?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Ya, that's really great research lioness. You found mention of a Prince Nicolas in a 1972 book about Africa and voila, you proved that the above picture of a Holy Roman Prince was in fact the African Prince Nicolas. Damn it you're a genius lioness.
And there I am, researching clothing, Jewelry, and every damn thing, trying to figure it out. When all I had to do was read the book and assume that the picture went with the book - silly me.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
PRINCE DOM NICOLAU OF KONGO:.ONE OF THE EARLIEST AFRICAN AND THE FIRST ANGOLAN RULER TO PROTEST AGAINST COLONIALISM
Dom Nicolau, prince of Kongo (Circa. 1830-1860) also known as Nicolau I Misaki mia Nimi is perhaps the earliest African leader who wrote publicly to protest colonial influences. Nicolau, or Nicolas, protested against Portuguese commercial and political activity and military expansion by publishing a letter in a Portuguese newspaper in Lisbon.
Prince Nicolau in his teens
In the history of Angolan resistance to Portuguese rule the traditional and most common form of protest has been armed rebellion. In the late nine- teenth century, however, new forms of protest appeared. African and mestigo assimilados (Angolans with varying degrees of Western education) began to express their protests in writing, both in letters to authorities and in colonial newspapers. Perhaps the earliest case of Angolan written protest came in 1859-1860 in the activities of a prince of the Kongo Kingdom, Nicolau de Agua Rosada de Sardonia. Nicolau, or Nicolas, protested against Portuguese commercial and political activity and military expansion by publishing a letter in a Portuguese newspaper in Lisbon. His written protest is the first case of Angolan written assertion against modern colonial influence and, therefore, represents an antecedent to later Angolan nationalism.
The life of Prince Nicolas is inextricably woven into the fabric of the fortunes of the Kingdom of Kongo and of Angola, a Portuguese colony to the south of the Congo River. By the time of Prince Nicolas' birth in the first third of the nineteenth century the Kingdom of Kongo had become a de facto, if not a de jure, colonial puppet of the government-general of Angola. Portuguese military and political expansion in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, which involved wars and slave-trading activities, as well as internecine warfare among the Kongo provinces, had effectively ruined the power and sovereignty of the Kongo kings. Although the Kongo Kingdom was not formally annexed to Angola until 1885, as the "District of Congo, " the kings of Kongo were dependent upon Luanda for supplies of food, wine, and arms, and for political support and Catholic priests long before. Moreover, the tradition that the Portuguese educated Kongo royal princes for the priesthood, in Luanda and in Lisbon, continued - albeit with some lapses - from the time of the original Bishop Henrique, son of Dom Affonso I (1508-1543?), through the lifetime of Nicolas.
The weakness and dependence of the Kongo Kingdom coincided with a colonial revival on the part of the Portuguese authorities in Angola. The official decree of 1836 abolishing the slave trade in Portuguese Africa was followed by a new colonial program which was designed to replace the slave trade revenue with legitimate trade profits; Portuguese commercial, political, and military expansion between 1845 and 1865 was thus an attempt to renovate the post-abolition economy of the territory. Part of the plan to increase the government revenue involved Portuguese expansion of customs house control north of Luanda. A number of active governors-general, beginning in 1842, sought to capture most of the coastal trade north of Luanda, including trade in the mouth of the Congo River, and thereby to gain profits for Portuguese merchants and customs revenue for the provincial government. The Kongo Kingdom, which was directly behind the coastal area of this coveted trade, was, by 1845, dominated mainly by British. and American merchants. The Portuguese plan was to renew long neglected relations with the Kongo Kingdom, to apply pressure, and then to control events on the coast from the interior of Kongo.
The Portuguese policy toward the Kongo Kingdom in the early nineteenth century had been characterized by indifference and neglect, but the new incentives reversed the trend. While a letter of 1814 from the King of Kongo to Luanda had met no response and elicited no aid, 4 similar plaintive letters in the 1840's met a new response from the Portuguese. In Lisbon Portuguese writers took a new interest in the Kongo Kingdom; between 1844 and 1846 Joaquim Lopes de Lima, a colonialista and writer, advocated expansion of Portuguese control in that kingdom. He noted in one newspaper article on the Kongo Kingdom that this subject was particularly timely as "Prince Nicholau of Congo" was then visiting Lisbon.
Nicolas' exact birth date remains uncertain. Contemporary engravings of Nicolas during his visit in Lisbon in 1845 suggest that he was then perhaps fifteen to twenty years of age .7 In any event, he was the son of King Henry II of Kongo, who ruled from 1842 to 1857. In early 1845 King Henry, from his capital at Sao Salvador, sent letters to the Governor of Angola expressing the desire to send Infante Dom Alvaro d'Agua Rosada e Sardonia, apparently the heir to the throne at that time, to Portugal to get an education. He was to be accompanied by an African priest, Dom Ant6nio Francisco das Necessidades. The Governor complied and sent Captain Antonio Joaquim de Castro to Kongo to accompany these men back to Luanda and thence to Portugal. The party was to be presented to the Queen of Portugal, Maria II (1843-1853). Instead of Dom Alvaro, however, Prince Dom Nicolau d'Agua Rosada de Sardonia came back with Castro and the African priest; there was no explanation for this change in the correspondence.
Nicolas left Luanda on the frigate Diana either in late August or early September 1845 and arrived at Lisbon on or about October 31st. Little is known about Nicolas' activities in Lisbon; how long he stayed or what he studied. It is clear, however, that he had an official reception with Queen Maria II, as there is an engraving, done by a contemporary Lisbon artist, of Nicolas in ceremonial robes worn at the royal reception. As of May 1846 Nicolas was reported to be in good health in Lisbon; several of the Prince's letters from Lisbon were received by his father at Sao Salvador in late August. Nicolas did not remain long in Portugal. Sometime between late 1846 and early 1848 he returned to Angola; the King of Kongo reported to the Governor-General in a letter of February 1848 that his son had returned safely to his capital.
The prince of Kongo was evidently anxious to continue his studies and to leave Kongo. He wrote letters to the Governor at Luanda expressing his desire to study in that city, to which the Governor replied in letters to Nicolas and to his father that the young man should remain in Kongo until the arrival of the Bishop of Angola at Luanda; until the new Bishop came with some "good teachers," he added, Nicolas would be wasting his time in Luanda. 13 Sometime between the time of this letter and late 1849 Nicolas did travel to Luanda and renewed his studies. In early 1850 he made a written appeal to the Governor for employment or for a small pension for subsistence to enable him to study Latin to become a Beneficio Ecclesiastico (assistant to a priest). The government in Lisbon recommended that Prince Nicolas be granted a small monthly pension by the Treasury Board until he could qualify as Beneficio.
Nicolas probably changed his mind about a career in the Church, for in 1850 he became a civil servant in the Portuguese government service in Luanda and remained in this position until 1857. By then Nicolas had lived over ten years in European society and had assimilated some European culture along with his ability to read, speak, and write Portuguese as well as some French. In short, Nicolas had what British Consul Gabriel described in 1859 as "a very liberal education."
Map of Kongo Alfredo de Sarmento, a contemporary Portuguese official and settler who knew him in Luanda suggests several reasons why Nicolas wished to leave the Kongo Kingdom: Nicolas was not eligible under the Kongo law to succeed to his father's throne; furthermore, "his experience with the Europeans did not permit him now to adapt himself to native customs [usos gentilicos]. He remained in Luanda, where he was employed in the accountant's office of the Public Treasury Department." Sarmento provides the only known physical description of Prince Nicolas: D. Nicolas Agua-Rosada was a tall black, with very dark color, kind features, a perfect racial type of muxiconga, which is distinguished especially by the prominence of cheeks, narrowness of the forehead, and by the thickness of the lips; he was modest, intelligent, not very talkative, but with affable and polite manners.
In short, he won general popularity, and as a public employee, he was exceedingly zealous in the fulfillment of his duties. His good service and aptitude resulted in his promotion.
Why was Nicolas ineligible for the throne of Kongo? Sarmento claimed that it was because he was a direct son of Henry II rather than a son of the King's sister or brother.18 The Kingship of Kongo was elective, but elections were often followed by wars. According to Vansina, the six electors usually chose "one who was not a child of the deceased king."19 Nicolas was one of a host of infantes, that is, descendants of one of the sixteenth-century King. Affonso I's three children. His title, "Prince, " meant that he could have been head of one of the many petty chiefdoms surrounding Sao Salvador, but from Sarmento's evidence, it seems that during Nicolas' time the electors would favor a king's nephew for King of Kongo.
The question of succession to the Kongo throne became an important issue in Portugal and Angola in this period. In literature which appeared between 1845 and 1855 Portuguese writers debated as to whether Kongo was a "vassal kingdom" of Angola or merely a "friend and ally." Nicolas later became involved in this question when he protested official Portuguese activities with regard to the Kongo. Lopes de Lima argued that the Kongo was actually a district of Angola and that the king was a loyal "vassal" of the Portuguese crown. Santar6m and Sa da Bandeira, two distinguished Portuguese statesmen, gathered historical documents to try and prove that the Kongo Kingdom had submitted to Portugal well before the nineteenth century as a "vassal" and not as a mere "ally. It is interesting to note, however, that Captain Castro, one of Nicolas' companions to Lisbon in 1845, believed that the Kongo Kingdom was outside Portuguese rule, for he placed the northern frontier of Portuguese territory at the River Lifume, which, in effect, might be interpreted as a southern boundary of Kongo Kingdom.
If the Portuguese were interested in renewing contacts in Kongo and strengthening their influence with its elite, there was not complete agreement on the achievements of the new policy. The policy of the official entertainment of Prince Nicolas came under attack by a former treasury official in Angola, Joaquim Ant6nio de Carvalho e Menezes. In a book written about 1846, but published in 1848 in Rio de Janeiro, Carvalho e Menezes stated that the money spent on Nicolas' visit was wasted. Prince Nicolas, he continued, was illegitimate and merely one of the offspring of concubines of the King of Kongo. He asserted that while Nicolas, an imposter barely able to speak a few words of Portuguese, was in Lisbon, the real descendant and legitimate heir to the throne of Kongo was in Luanda. Portugal's new interest in Kongo was misguided, he wrote, since that area had no political or commercial importance. Carvalho e Menezes criticized the Overseas Minister of Portugal for deliberate "conspicuous consumption" in the Prince Nicolas affair.23 Despite this official's attacks and his information on Nicolas' status is difficult to check the new policy toward Kongo went ahead and Prince Nicolas continued to receive certain considerations from the Portuguese government in Luanda.
II Prince Nicolas became further involved in the question of the succession to the throne of Kongo and expanding Portuguese influence on the north coast and in Kongo when the Portuguese officially annexed the port of Ambriz in May 1855. This annexation was opposed by British authorities as well as by local African authorities. The British Foreign Office had, since 1846, officially opposed expansion of Portuguese sovereignty north of eight degrees south latitude (a little south of Ambriz) in the interests of "unrestricted intercourse, " or free trade; Portuguese annexation would be followed by customs house control of the local trade. 24 Local African authorities resisted by armed violence but were defeated in a short skirmish. King Henry of Kongo, however, felt that the Portuguese annexation was favorable to his interests of getting support from Luanda. Therefore, he sent a message of congratulation to the Governor-General of Angola within a month of the annexation.Within a few years Nicolas was posted as a civil servant to the new administration set up at Ambriz.
The death of King Henry II in late 1857 sparked a struggle for the throne among claimant infantes. This civil war was further complicated by the growing, general African resistance to expanding Portuguese authority north of Luanda. Portuguese forces suppressed African rebellions at Ambriz and Bembe in 1857 and initiated relations with the candidate who emerged as one "legitimate" heir to the throne, the Marquis of Catende, called Dom Pedro, a nephew of the deceased King. The Kongo custom that a European missionary had to crown the king was already well established by this date; in 1858 the Marquis was still uncrowned, for there were no Portuguese missionaries then resident in Kongo. That same year he visited Bembe, where the Portuguese had begun copper mining operations, and the coronation ceremony seems to have been planned at that meeting. On August 7, 1859, at Banza a Puto in Kongo, the Marquis of Catende was crowned King Dom Pedro V; Portuguese officials, soldiers, and priests were in attendance. Dom Pedro was given the same royal title as that of the contemporary King of Portugal, Dom Pedro V of Braganga (1853-1861) and was crowned by Portuguese priests from Bembe and Ambriz.
Dom Pedro was clearly the favored Portuguese candidate. Opposition from several quarters, however, emerged both before and after his coronation. The first and most traditional opposition came from a rival claimant, the brave warrior, Dom Alvaro Kiambu Ndongo, called "Alvaro Dongo" by the Portuguese. As the candidate for the throne put up by the Kisundi clan, Alvaro Kiambu temporarily occupied Sao Salvador and threatened Dom Pedro's claim.31 Dom Pedro called for help from the Portuguese in Luanda. In mid-September the Governor- General dispatched a military expedition to relieve pressure on Sao Salvador and to support King Pedro in his fragile kingship. Major J. Baptista de Andrade, later a well known governor-general of Angola, led the expedition, which was supported by African auxiliaries, the guerra preta. They occupied Sao Salvador in late 1859.
In the meantime Prince Nicolas had taken a civil service position in Ambriz in 1857. Little is known of his life during this period, but it is very likely that he came into contact with other assimilados, as well as with resident foreign consuls, including those of the United States, Brazil, and Great Britain, and became culturally more Westernized. New ideas from Europe and America influenced Nicolas and his contemporaries in coastal Angola, and certain groups were becoming dissatisfied with their personal status and the status of Angola under Portuguese rule. Recalling the period of the late 1850's and early 1860's, Nicolas' contemporary, Sarmento, wrote: At that time in Luanda, some utopian ideas of independence fermented, so that some radical natives tried to liberate the mother country [italics in original], as they called it, from Portuguese rule. They talked of a republic, preferring Brazilian nationality, and there were even those who thought of making a present of the beloved country to the republic of the United States of America.
The official policy of sending Portuguese political exiles to serve sentences in Angola encouraged the spread of anti-monarchical, pro-republican doctrines at this time. Coinciding with a certain amount of European discontent, and perhaps encouraged by it, was an African separatism among a handful of Africans and mestigos with European education.
Either in Ambriz or in Luanda Prince Nicolas read in the government gazette, the Boletim Official, of the coronation of King Pedro V on August 7, 1859, and of the official oath of loyalty the King of Kongo took to the King of Portugal. Within nine days of the publication of this "Auto, " Nicolas had written several letters of protest. Two of these letters were to individuals, one to Dom Pedro V of Portugal dated September 26, 1859, and one to Dom Pedro II, Emperor of Brazil, with an unknown date. 35 More important than these letters in terms of Nicolas' future, however, was a protest letter addressed to a Portuguese daily newspaper, the Jornal do Commercio (Lisbon), also dated September 26, 1859, and published in Lisbon on December 1, 1859.36 This document became the focus of a cause celebre in Angola and indirectly resulted in the tragic end of the Prince of Kongo.
The major point of Nicolas' written protests was that Portugal had no right to claim that the Kongo Kingdom or king were now "vassals" of Portugal when in fact they were "ancient allies" or "a friend and faithful ally." Quoting documents to prove his point, Nicolas cited a letter from the Governor of Angola to the King of Kongo, Henry II, dated November 5, 1853, in which the Governor addressed that monarch as "an ancient ally."37 Nicolas thus protested the new oath taken by Dom Pedro V at the August 7th coronation and added that the military force sent to aid the King 'against an illegitimate but powerful pretender" was dispatched to aid an ally, not to pressure a vassal. Indeed, Nicolas maintained, the King of Kongo was an independent agent. The King and his aides had signed the document of August 7, 1859, only because they could not read Portuguese. Nicolas appealed to the King of Portugal and asked him to support "the independence of that kingdom [Kongo]
Nicolas' letter to the Lisbon newspaper contained much the same protest but went further, claiming that he, Nicolas, was the only person of royal blood from the Kongo elite who had the education to understand the issue and to protect the Kingdom of Kongo against future dishonest acts. In this letter Nicolas does not actually claim the throne for himself, but the tone and content of the letter leave little to the imagination in terms of Nicolas' ambitions. The Kongo Kingdom was an independent state, Nicolas asserted, and the recent Portuguese oath taken by King Dom Pedro was an infringement of this well established sovereignty. The Portuguese had hoodwinked the ignorant aides of the King, who evidently knew no Portuguese himself, and had made them sign this document. The secretaries and clerks of Kongo "so poorly understood the Portuguese language that they mistook the phrase, swearing of obedience and homage for renewal of alliance and friendship."
This interesting protest letter suggested that Nicolas was better fitted to exercise rule in the Kongo than were his relatives, stating that: This act, moreover, by the swearing of loyalty and homage said to be done by the Marquis of Catendi, my first cousin, in the role as king of the Kongo, is an infraction of national independence, well recognized by history and by the very government of His Most Faithful Majesty and by all their representatives in this Province, in many documents .... And since the Kongo Kingdom possesses no other person with such learning, it is therefore necessary to make a public and solemn declaration in this respect, as such, to protest, as I do protest, against the stated act, which subjugates the same kingdom to that of Portugal.
Although the publication of this article had little impact in Portugal, the bold protest, accompanied as it was by an elaborate set of arguments and documents, raised eyebrows in Angola. Sometime in early February 1860 the government-general of Angola received a copy of the paper which carried Nicolas' protest letter. On February 11 the government sent Nicolas a letter at Ambriz, where he was "interim clerk" to the treasury board. In this letter the Secretary- General of Angola acknowledged that Luanda knew of Nicolas' protest letter and that the government understood the conflict between Nicolas' position as "a public employee" of Angola and his recently published claim to be "a foreign prince of a free state." At about the same time the government sent Nicolas an order to be transferred to a new post, out of harm's way, at the new village of Mogcmedes.
It is unclear whether Nicolas received these letters, but if the one of February 11 was a measure to stall him, it would not have worked in any case; by then he had apparently made plans for leaving Angola. He had been contacted by foreign friends in Luanda and warned about the government's displeasure over his letter. Furthermore, he must have known about the fate of his uncle, Dom Aleixo, or Alexus, Prince of Kongo, a brother of King Henry II, who in 1841 had incited the Dembos people north of Luanda to rebel and refuse to pay a Portuguese tax, had been arrested, and imprisoned in a Luanda fortress until 1856. Nicolas left Ambriz on February 13, 1860, with the aid of his friend Saturnino de Sousa e Oliveira, the Brazilian consul.
Had Sousa e Oliveira helped Nicolas to write his famous protest letters? If so, what were his motives? At present such questions cannot be answered since the relevant correspondence from this Brazilian consul has not yet been studied. What is known is contained in several letters of explanation from Sousa e Oliveira to the Governor-General, in letters from Huntley and Gabriel, the British representatives in Luanda, as well as in correspondence from the Governor-General. From these letters it appears that, of the two foreign consuls involved in giving aid to Nicolas in his abortive attempt to leave Angola, the most compromised and guilty one was Sousa e Oliveira. Sousa e Oliveira was willing to help Nicolas leave Angola and went to Consul Gabriel to arrange for a British ship to pick up Nicolas north of Ambriz and take him to Brazil. Gabriel, who was shown two of the protest letters on or about February 9th, was reluctant to help Nicolas but finally consented to supply the Kongo Prince with a letter of introduction to the commander of any British vessel which might call at the ports north of Ambriz. This letter was sent to Nicolas in Ambriz with a warning that the government might be taking action against him for his letters of protest.
Some vague plan involving relations between Brazil and the "free state" of Kongo with Nicolas as king was apparently behind the Brazilian Consul's involvement with Nicolas. In a letter of February 28, 1860, the Brazilian Consul revealed the outlines of such a plan and explained, at least in part, his relations with Nicolas. Sousa e Oliveira stated that Prince Nicolas as a civil servant in a low position ("Escrivao Interino da Delegagao da Junta da Fazenda") in Ambriz was now dissatisfied with his role and wanted to continue his education. Nicolas lacked the means to continue his studies but felt that as a government employee he was "without honors or distinctions." He had decided, therefore, to leave Angola and study at Rio de Janeiro under Brazilian sponsorship. In the future, Nicolas planned for a close "alliance" between Brazil and the Kongo Kingdom, the nature of which would be commercial: wax, ivory, gums, and oils to be traded for Brazilian rum, sugar, glass, and textiles.
Nicolas considered himself the most educated person of royal blood from the Kongo Kingdom, but it is not clear whether he conceived of himself as a king in a future alliance with Brazil. In any event, further education was part of the plan, and Nicolas badly needed money to finance his departure from Angola and his stay in Brazil. Sousa e Oliveira later explained to the Governor- General that Nicolas planned to meet a member of his family at Ambriz, obtain from him 200 to 400 African slaves, and, masquerading them as "indentured servants, " sell them to a French agent on the coast. He would then have the necessary funds to travel to Brazil, where he would seek the patronage of the Brazilian Emperor. From Ambriz, Nicolas' destination was the small port of Kissembo, a few miles to the north in territory as yet outside of Portuguese jurisdiction and customs house control. The village was the site of a number of trading factories owned by American, British, and Dutch telling friends that he intended to visit a nearby relative. He was bearing the letter of introduction written by Consul Gabriel. When he reached Kissembo, he entered the house of a British merchant, Mr. Morgan. Morgan's house was soon surrounded by a large group of hostile Africans screaming for Nicolas. According to one account Morgan refused to surrender Nicolas, and when he raised a British flag to get help, the Africans broke in, dragged Nicolas out, and slaughtered him. Another account stated that Nicolas succeeded in getting out of the back of the house but was then shot dead. The American commercial agent, Willis, reported that Morgan gave Nicolas up after awhile, and the crowd then shot and beheaded him.
Why did these Africans kill Nicolas? One interpretation was that Nicolas was an assimilado and a traitor to Africans in that region; "because, they said, he had sold Ambriz to the Government and now wanted to sell the Congo." Indeed, his Portuguese friend at Abriz, Sarmento, had warned Nicolas just prior to his departure for Kissembo that he was taking a terrible risk, "because the black natives north of Ambriz despised him for leaving the Kongo and for living on intimate terms with the whites." Thus, Nicolas may have become a victim of popular Kongo justice, condemned as an agent of interests alien to the people north of Ambriz.
The exact identity of Nicolas' assassins remains unknown. The Brazilian consul later blamed the death of the Prince on "blacks coming from Ambriz, " who had been informed about Nicolas by agents of the Governor-General in order to prevent him from achieving the "independence of the Congo." Out of later repercussions from the affair came the Governor-General's bitter accusation that Gabriel had "sacrificed" Nicolas' life. The assailants of the ill fated Prince were undoubtedly caught up in the general unrest fomented by Portuguese expansion north of Luanda after 1855, but this factor would not by itself explain what appears to have been a planned attack.
The crucial question remains whether or not the African assassins knew that Nicolas had recently incurred the wrath of the Portuguese authorities in Luanda with his protest letters. When the Governor-General learned of Nicolas' violent death, he decided to launch a military expedition to Kissembo, partly in order to avenge the Prince's death, but also to annex Kissembo for Portugal. The Governor confided to Lisbon that Nicolas had "betrayed" the Portuguese authorities but that the African assailants had to be punished. He blamed Consul Sousa e Oliveira more than Consul Gabriel, but he did accuse Gabriel of plotting to "seduce" Nicolas into "opposing our projects of subjugating he Congo.' Sousa e Oliveira, he said, had encouraged "aspirations of independence which now are germinating around here in the excitable minds of the natives." Both men, he argued, should be removed from their positions for such "ridiculous thoughts."
The expedition to Kissembo failed to complete its mission, meeting considerable opposition from Africans as well as from foreign naval units which opposed the expansion of Portuguese sovereignty. When Governor-General Amaral, who was leading the expedition himself, met armed crews from the U.S.S. Union and from the British vessel, Falcon, he stated that he wished only to rest his troops in the town; but the foreign commanders refused to permit even this much. The Portuguese expedition then burned parts of the town and withdrew toward Ambriz. In crossing the Loge River near Ambriz, the Portuguese were ambushed by Africans and took heavy casualties. Poorly supplied and badly led, they retreated south to Luanda and safety.
III The Prince Nicolas affair ended with the Portuguese failure either to "avenge" the Prince's murder or to annex Kissembo to Angola. Nearly every individual touched by the events of February 1860 suffered in one way or another. Commissioner Huntley used the affair to try to discredit and dismiss Consul Gabriel; Huntley considered Nicolas' protest as "spurious" and contrived by the Portuguese to make claims in the Kongo area. Brazilian Consul, Sousa e Oliveira, was compromised, despite his explanations to the Governor-General that Gabriel was only a friend of Nicolas and that Britain and Brazil had no real interest in the Kongo Kingdom; he eventually left his position as consul, but remained in Luanda as a physician. The Governor-General attempted to use the affair to expand Portuguese authority on the coast, but met complete disaster in the Kissembo expedition; despite the fact that his term of office had been long and largely successful, Portuguese settlers clamored for his dismissal, and the government relieved him of his post in June. He was replaced by a new Governor - General in August 1860. Nor was Amaral's reputation the last one to suffer. The general reputation of all Portuguese authority in coastal Angola was severely shaken by the Prince Nicolas affair and its repercussions; and an expedition of 800 European reinforcements sent from Portugal to attempt to restore this tarnished image, achieved little or nothing as well as suffering nearly fifty percent mortality from malaria and yellow fever.
In Portugal, however, the Prince Nicolas affair indirectly prompted the King of Portugal to reassess Portuguese overseas policy and to reappraise its costs. When he had received a full report of the affair a few months after Nicolas' death, King Pedro V wrote a minister in Lisbon: "Many of our misfortunes in Angola clearly originate in the policy of expansion, which the Overseas Council began, and which we today find ourselves obliged to continue . .. To follow this policy, it is necessary to accept all the consequences, and these are the weakening of the Metropolis in favor of the colonies .... We are moving to destroy the special civilization of the natives- that is to say, their absolute liberty- but we cannot substitute our civilization, since they cannot accept it, and because they do not know or understand it."
Portuguese influence in the Kongo Kingdom declined again after the brief spurt of activity in 1859-1860. A rebel claimant to Dom Pedro's throne, Alvaro Ndongo, was kept at bay and was soon defeated. Yet the power of King Pedro V (or VI) was very limited and was confined to the environs of his wretched capital at Sao Salvador. The resident Portuguese garrison which maintained whatever power he enjoyed was withdrawn in 1870, and the Portuguese garrison at near-by Bembe was withdrawn two years later.66 When Amaral returned for a second term in 1869-1870, he admitted that the Kongo King was but a figurehead among a number of other petty chiefdoms and that the cost of earlier expeditions and occupation had been wasted. Although a Baptist missionary later referred to Dom Pedro as "the last independent King of Congo, " it was obvious that the King was rather helpless and that, as Nicolas had pointed out in 1859, his ignorance of Portuguese would make him vulnerable to Portuguese ambitions. Indeed, in 1884 the king apparently signed a document acknowledging the suzerainty of Portugal, believing that he was only thanking the King of Portugal for some gifts.
A decade and a half later, when the Portuguese again sought to expand their influence in Angola, some officials reconsidered the policy of maintaining and educating the tiny Kongo elite. The Prince Nicolas affair and several others, including that of Prince Alexus, suggested that the education of the Agua Rosada dynasty tended to produce enemies rather than friends for Portugal. The statement of a governor-general in a letter of 1885 to Lisbon that such education thus far had created only "useless visionaries, detestable clerks, " was referring, at least indirectly, to the case of Prince Nicolas as well as to later assimilados.
Despite the fact that the Prince Nicolas case remains mysterious, even to Angolan historians, several conclusions can be reached. Nicolas' roles in Angolan society were conflicting. He was at once an assimilado and an African traditional leader. As the personally ambitious assimilado he was prepared to use the slave trade to better his own condition. Vansina's hypothesis that the political leadership of the Kongo Kingdom by the early eighteenth century had become closely tied to the slave trade is complemented as well as modified in the case of Nicolas. If it is true that slaves remained "the real source of power" at the mid-nineteenth century, it is also true that the possession of European education had become more important as a factor of mobility and as a qualification for eligibility in leadership among the Kongo elite.
Nicolas' written protest that his royal relatives in Kongo were illiterate in Portuguese, whether or not it was true, suggested that he considered European education as a necessary prerequisite to leadership in a Kongo which had relations with Portuguese Angola. Nicolas' protest stated that, as a member of a traditional African elite, he felt a responsibility for protecting the interests of the people of Kongo, although this attitude was in conflict with his official position as a civil servant in the Portuguese administration in Ambriz. He thus set himself up as a guardian of his people's interests. It is not known how much of a following Nicolas had in Kongo; Brazilian Consul Sousa e Oliveira wrote that, although Nicolas had"some Partisans" in Kongo Kingdom in 1860, he represented only one faction. If he sought to assert his role as prince of a "free foreign state, " then he could not continue to hold his position as an assimilado civil servant with the government, as the Portuguese authorities had warned him shortly before his death.
Whatever Nicolas' place in the pantheon of early Angolan protest and dissent, his life represented a peculiar mixture of the traditional and early modern. From the time of the publication of his protest letter the Portuguese have considered him what they call "a rebel." If he was a rebel, his rebellion had ambiguities. Although he employed traditional means from the Kongo past -- slave trade profits and letters of petition to European authorities -- to achieve what he wanted, he also used a new method -- publishing a letter in a newspaper. Nicolas' published protest letter represents perhaps the first written opposition to a stated Portuguese policy since the letters from kings of Kongo to Lisbon and the Vatican in the sixteenth century. Since it was published, it went beyond the traditional disputations of earlier private Portuguese-Kongo correspondence. When Nicolas wrote that the "national independence" of Kongo Kingdom was "well recognized by history and by the very Government of His Most Faithful Majesty, " he used historical arguments to establish an independent status for his kingdom, although "national independence" was a non- traditional phrase. Yet his protests failed to make the Portuguese renounce their policy or to replace Pedro V. The repercussions from Nicolas' death, however, did far more to undermine the Portuguese position than did his letters.
The tragic Prince Nicolas affair illustrates two levels of consciousness in the area north of Luanda: among the Kongo Kingdom elite there endured a consciousness of special privilege and sovereignty, originally articulated in the six-teenth-century experiment, and thereafter doggedly preserved by succeeding generations; among the African peoples north of Luanda was a consciousness of independence which would lead them to oppose Portuguese expansion and authority and to condemn and punish any leader they considered to be inimical to their interests. Nicolas, like a number of deposed Kongo kings and princes before and since his time, apparently was a victim of this process.
In 1860 Angola none of the parties involved, including the Portuguese, was certain of the durability of Portuguese presence. Whether or not he was encouraged by Brazilian and British pressures, Nicolas, by his protest, revealed both Portuguese weakness and the expanding consciousness of the educated and rootless assimilado elite. This Kongo elite was a living reminder to its Portuguese patrons that a little education could be dangerous, especially in men with leadership qualities. Indeed, it was feared by some Portuguese officials that with proper leadership the Kongo Kingdom could become more than just a puppet state of Angola. Prince Nicolas' "very liberal education," and his protest, however fleeting, became new factors in the status of Kongo and in the Kongo elite's quest for power and prestige.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Ya, that's really great research lioness. You found mention of a Prince Nicolas in a 1972 book about Africa and voila, you proved that the above picture of a Holy Roman Prince was in fact the African Prince Nicolas. Damn it you're a genius lioness.
And there I am, researching clothing, Jewelry, and every damn thing, trying to figure it out. When all I had to do was read the book and assume that the picture went with the book - silly me.
The 1972 book reference was for the text not the picture. I don't know the original source of this picture.
But what I'm reacting to is your dishonesty and fact faking.
You are saying you are "trying to figure it out"
yet you have a caption already saying that it's laughable to call this person a prince of Kongo
So you make up stuff put it up like it's fact and yet are still "trying to figure it out" That's the wrong way of doing things, it's backwards, like executing somebody and having the trial after they're dead.
It would be reasonable to say the source is not verified.
But saying that calling him an African prince is laughable means that because of his European clothes he could not be an African and that is a lie
We have been over this before.
^^ this is proof that Congolese kings wore European royal clothes.
period end of story, the point is made
Now the fact that he looks pathetic here is irrelevant. One can't tell the quality of the robe here. You tried to imply in an old thread that because this particular King of Kongo in 1892 looks like his clothes are not as fine in quality as this illustration of Prince Nicholau Dom Nicolau, prince of Kongo (Circa. 1830-1860), that therfore all Kings of Kongo had shabby psuedo royal clothes Buty you don't know the quality of that robe and there is no reason that they couldn't have different circumstances and therefore different qualities of clothing.
This photo in fact proves a more general point >
Kings of the Kongo did indeed wear European clothing.
period end of story.
Therefore the picture may not be source but the fact that an African prince could be wearing European clothing and that type of cross he's wearing is not laughable.
To say it's laughable is what is a lie not that it is unsourced.
It's is just an unsorted picture wearing clothes that fit properly in historical context.
But you made up lies that if he wore this cross he would be killed.
So in actuality you "trying to figure it out" but at the same time you are telling people the fact that that an African prince at that time wearing fancy European clothes and the type of cross he's wearing is laughable. But it was obvious you did not research Christianity in the Kongo at that time to And you put a caption on the photo suggesting it's laughably to think this person was an African
you are laughable
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^IDIOT!
ROYALTY OF ONE COUNTRY DO NOT WEAR THE ICONS AND TRAPPINGS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY.
That mimicking African is wearing genetic none specific trappings of European royalty.
In the case of the German crosses worn by the British, the current British royalty ARE Germans!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Coat of Arms of the Holy Roman Empire.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^IDIOT!
ROYALTY OF ONE COUNTRY DO NOT WEAR THE ICONS AND TRAPPINGS OF ANOTHER COUNTRY.
That mimicking African is wearing genetic none specific trappings of European royalty.
In the case of the German crosses worn by the British, the current British royalty ARE Germans!
^^^ MIke this is pur garbage
You are the idiot you simply haven't done rudimentary research on the Portugese in West Africa so your ignorent remarks have no context. These Kings were puppets of the Portugese to an extent, with littel real power >> and were representing conversion to Christianity. There were some uprisings however and Prince Nicolau rebellled at a certain point with letters of protest
The early respect shown by the portuguese for the Africans whom they met on the Kongo coast provides a startling contrast to the attitude of Europeans in the later nineteenth century towards the peoples of the Kongo interior. The portuguese appeared to have no colour prejudice and at the very beginning their attitude to the Kongo citizens tended towards assimilation. They did not doubt that the Africans could become portuguese in externals, and the Kongo Authorities seemed ready enough to conform. Four hostages were taken to portugal by Diego Cam as surety for the men whom he had sent on a mission to Mbanza Kongo, the capital of the Kingdom of Kongo. During their year in Lisbon they were treated as honoured guests, they learned to speak and write portuguese, and the Christian faith was explained to them. When they returned to the Kongo they wore portuguese dress, but the Africans noticed at once that it differed from that of the crew of the boat which brought them home; the four hostages were members of the Kongo nobility, and in Portugal they had been treated as such.
The rich gold mines at Sofala (now a port of Mozambique) attracted the Portuguese to the East Coast of Africa. They used intermarriage with the Africans as a means of gaining favor and pushing into the interior of Africa. In turn, the Africans gradually lost their anti-Christian hostilities and gave in to being converted to Christianity. And thus Christianity was introduced into the Kongo before 1491. The Mani Sogno was the first Kongo nobleman to embrace the Christian faith. The Moslems, coming into the Congo from the East Coast, prevailed upon the Africans to resist being converted to Christianity, telling them that Christianity was a subtle method used by the Portuguese to take over their country. This warning notwithstanding, Christianity continued to spread in the Kongo.
In 1513, Henrique, son of Dom Affonso, then King of the Congo, was sent to Lisbon and to Rome to study theology. In 1520, Pope Leo X appointed Henrique Bishop of Utica and Vicar-apostolic of the Congo. Unfortunately, Henrique died before he could return to the Congo. He was Rome's first Central African bishop. The royal archives of Portugal still hold the records reflecting the ceremonial respect that was paid to this Christian son of an African king and queen.
In the years that followed, Portuguese evangelization of the Congo continued. The Holy See received ambassadors from and sent legates to the Congo. In 1561, Father Dom Goncalo da Silvera baptized the Emperor of the Court of Monomotapa.
The peaceful relations between the Africans and the Portuguese were eventually disrupted by the rising European lust for slaves and gold. It was from N'Gola (Angola) and the Kongo that the Portuguese New World was to derive its greatest source of slaves. In 1647, Salvador Correia of Brazil organized an expedition of fifteen ships for the purpose of reconquering Angola, which had been under Dutch rule for eight years. This event might be considered go be one of the earliest political interventions of the New World in the Affairs of the Old.
Portuguese domination founded on the dire necessities of the slave trade persisted in Angola. After a period of relative splendor, the Christian Kingdom of the Congo began to weaken and was practically destroyed by European fortune hunters, pseudo-missionaries and other kinds of free-booters. By 1688, the entire Congo region was in chaos. By the end of the seventeenth century European priests had declared open war on the non-Christian population of the Kongo. They were attempting to dominate Congolese courts and had ordered the execution of Congolese ancestral priests and indigenous doctors. Now the Congolese Christians were pathetic pawns of the hands of unscrupulous European priests, soldiers, merchants and other renegade pretenders, mere parish priests from Europe were ordering Congolese kings from their thrones.
Soon treachery, robbery and executions compounded the chaos in the Kongo. Violence became the order of the day as various assortments of European mercenaries vied for control of this rich area of Africa. In the ensuing struggle many of the Christian churches built by the Portuguese were destroyed. The Dutch, still feeling the humiliation of the decline of their influence in N'Gola (Angola), came into the Congo and systematically removed all traces of the once prevailing Portuguese power.
By 1820 Arab slave traders had penetrated the Kongo from Zanzibar and through Tanganyika. Soon after their arrival their slave raids were decimating the population. The European rediscovery of the Kongo and neighboring territories began in the middle of the nineteenth century. In 1858, two Englishmen, Burton and Spoke, discovered Lakes Tanganyka and Victoria, approaching them from the shores of the Indian Ocean. The Scotch Protestant missionary, Livingstone, explored the regions of the big lakes and in 1871, Livingstone and Stanley met on the shore of Lake Tanganyika. From 1874 to 1877, Henry Morton Stanley crossed Africa from east to west and discovered the Kongo River.
The Portuguese recognized the Manikongo King, but not Alteza (Highness). (See the alternative attempt of Alvaro III.) So for them the King of Kongo was an inferior, client King. Other Europeans did not accept the title at all.
Surely the Portuguese were right to the letter. A sovereign Kingdom has got the Crown or the Title originally either from (the/an) Emperor, or from the Pope. In the first case the vassalage was tangible, in the second intangible. France was exceptional, but Louis I (Chlodwig), the Meroving, got the sacred balsam (crism) from the Pope, or rather, from Heaven.
The Manikongo did not get crown from the Emperor or from the Pope. A King cannot create a sovereign king. So the Portuguese considered the Manikongo a Senhor, i.e. a Lord, even if the greatest Senhor of Central Africa.
True, they called the state Kingdom, and the Manikongo King. Instead of complicated argumentations, read the classical geographic work: Duarte Lopes & Filippo Pigafetta: Relacao do Reino de Congo e das terras circumvizinhas (1591). The name of the country is always Kongo Kingdom, the title of the Manikongo is always King there. However, when the authors describe the history of the previous century, the relation of the 2 kings (the Portuguese and the Congolese) is always analogous with that of the Emperor and a King of the Empire.
And in the XIXth century, when European powers finally cut up the map of Africa among themselves, nobody takes seriously the virtual rights of a Christian King without troops.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lioness - Compare the following Congolese royalty in look, dress, and bearing; and tell me of the similarities with the young prince above. (After 1880)
Embassy of the king of Kongo, Angola Unknown photographer c. 1895, postcard, collotype Published by Casa Novecentos, Loanda, Angola, c. 1906 Eliot Elisofon Photographic Archives National Museum of African Art Smithsonian Institution
Kongo chief of Nemlâd, near Banana, Lower Congo, Congo Free State Unknown photographer c. 1892, postcard, collotype Published by Nels, Brussels, c.1888 Postmarked 1899 Eliot Elisofon Photographic Archives National Museum of African Art Smithsonian Institution
King Makoko of Téké (center left carried on chair) in procession to Brazzavile with French colonials, circa 1905.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^May I take your lack of response as meaning that there is "NO" similarities between the young Prince above and "ANY" Congolese?
While at the same time, there are many similarities between the young Prince and European Nobility, isn't there.
He,he,he,he:
Ridiculous claims seem to just melt away when exposed to comparison and logic eh?
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: The Portuguese gave him those clothes, he was a collaborationist and introduced mass slavery in the zone, starting kidnapping the people of the neighbouring kingdoms to feed the hunger of slaves of the Portuguese.
Thanks for the Info.
Really puts in perspective, How uncle toms have devastated The Continent .
Smile in there Face and they ready to kill there brothers for a cup of tea.
European imperialists (in this case France and Belgium) named not one, but 2 countries with the name of that collaborationist kingdom. They are really grateful to it.
Republic of Congo = should be named Loango, since it was the most powerful kingdom there.
Democratic Republic of Congo = there were too many kingdoms there, a new name should be used (something diffrent from Zaire, since it remembers the bloody dictator Mobutu)
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: [QB] Lioness - Compare the following Congolese royalty in look, dress, and bearing; and tell me of the similarities with the young prince above. (After 1880)
Embassy of the king of Kongo, Angola Unknown photographer c. 1895, postcard, collotype Published by Casa Novecentos, Loanda, Angola, c. 1906 Eliot Elisofon Photographic Archives National Museum of African Art Smithsonian Institution
more proof that some employees of the Congolese government dressed in European garb
The idea that they would have to be dressed as finely as a prince is a stupid red herring, please, you are grasping as straws now
^^^ this is a young African man
now deal with ths situation instead of denying it
Can you deal with it or is it too much to handle
he was a client of Portugese colonialists and missionaries who later spoke up for the rights of his people
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
King of Kuba (located in Democratic Republic of Congo) in full cerimonial dress, everything is local and comes from the kingdom, from the crown to the sword. What the prince of Congo is wearing is half European half Congolese, since it was a collaborationist kingdom.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: What the prince of Congo is wearing is half European half Congolese, since it was a collaborationist kingdom.
Which parts are Congolese?
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: What the prince of Congo is wearing is half European half Congolese, since it was a collaborationist kingdom.
Which parts are Congolese?
Now that I look closer only the way he holds that cloth that he uses as a skirt come from local royal traditions, but the textures on it are European.
A prince with no shame and no pride, a complete sellout.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Now that I look closer only the way he holds that cloth that he uses as a skirt come from local royal traditions, but the textures on it are European. A prince with no shame and no pride, a complete sellout.
So all of that analysis and comparing that I did was a waste of time for you eh?
You knew going in what it was, and you were not going to let logic and evidence get in the way of you knowing what you know.
If I hadn't forced you to actually think about it - What then?
You're African, aren't you?
BTW - What's African about the way he holds his Sash?
Lara and genius. Fragment. Genius at the altar and flutist.
Fresco from Pompeii (insula VIII, 2, larary). Fourth style. 69-79. Inv. Number 8905. Naples, National Archaeological Museum.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
It's obvious there are similarities between Africa and other parts of the world.
These are some Akan coins which futures what in European nations is caled "swastica"
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The Teutonic Knights
the Teutonic Order was a German medieval military order, and became in modern times a purely religious Catholic order. It was formed to aid Christians on their pilgrimages to the Holy Land and to establish hospitals. Its members have commonly been known as the Teutonic Knights, since they also served as a crusading military order in the Middle Ages. The military membership was always small, with volunteers and mercenaries augmenting the force as needed.
Formed at the end of the 12th century in Acre, in the Levant, the medieval Order played an important role in Outremer, controlling the port tolls of Acre. After Christian forces were defeated in the Middle East, the Order moved to Transylvania in 1211 to help defend the South-Eastern borders of the Kingdom of Hungary against the Kipchaks (TURKS). The Knights were expelled by force of arms by king Andrew II of Hungary in 1225, after allegedly attempting to place themselves under Papal instead of the original Hungarian sovereignty.
In 1230, following the Golden Bull of Rimini, Grand Master Hermann von Salza and Duke Konrad I of Masovia launched the Prussian Crusade, a joint invasion of Prussia intended to Christianize the Baltic Old Prussians. The Knights had quickly taken steps against their Polish hosts and with the Emperor's support had changed the status of Chełmno Land (also Ziemia Chelminska or Kulmerland), where they were invited by the Polish prince, into their own property. Starting from Chełmno Land the Order created the independent Monastic State of the Teutonic Knights adding continuously the conquered Prussian's territory, and subsequently conquered Livonia. The Kings of Poland accused the Order of holding lands rightfully theirs, specifically Chełmno Land and the Polish Kingdom's lands conquered later, such as Pomerelia (also Pomorze Gdańskie or Pomerania), Kujawy, Dobrzyń Land etc..
The Order lost its main purpose in Europe with the Christianization of Lithuania. The Order initiated numerous campaigns against its Christian neighbours, the Kingdom of Poland, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and the Novgorod Republic (after assimilating the Livonian Order). The Teutonic Knights had a strong economic base, hired mercenaries from throughout Europe to augment their feudal levies, and became a naval power in the Baltic Sea. In 1410, a Polish-Lithuanian army decisively defeated the Order and broke its military power at the Battle of Grunwald (Tannenberg).
In 1515, Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I made a marriage alliance with Sigismund I of Poland-Lithuania. Thereafter the Empire did not support the Order against Poland. In 1525, Grand Master Albert of Brandenburg resigned and converted to Lutheranism, becoming Duke of Prussia as a vassal of Poland. Soon after, the Order lost Livonia and its holdings in the Protestant areas of Germany.
The Order kept its considerable holdings in Catholic areas of Germany until 1809, when Napoleon Bonaparte ordered its dissolution and the Order lost its last secular holdings. The Order continued to exist as a charitable and ceremonial body. It was outlawed by Adolf Hitler in 1938 but re-established in 1945. Today it operates primarily with charitable aims in Central Europe.
The Knights wore white surcoats with a black cross. A cross pattée was sometimes used as their coat of arms; this image was later used for military decoration and insignia by the Kingdom of Prussia and Germany as the Iron Cross and Pour le Mérite. The motto of the Order was: "Helfen, Wehren, Heilen" ("Help, Defend, Heal").
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^ TheAfricaTNSY this is from Mike's black history website
This is the complete painting. Below are some close up views of it Unknown Artist, Netherlands. Chafariz d’el Rey in the Alfama District (View of a Square with the Kings Fountain in Lisbon), ca. 1570-88.
oil on panel.
The artist depicted at least half a dozen Jewish men — the women’s religious identities are more difficult to discern — including two Jewish policemen hauling away a black man who appears, according to the wall text, to be “drunk and sheepish.” The latter figure and several other Africans explain the painting’s appearance in the exhibit “Revealing the African Presence in Renaissance Europe,” which was at the Walters Museum in Baltimore.
Paintings of everyday life were popular in Flanders but not in Portugal, so the anonymous painter was probably a Flemish visitor inspired by the urban scene, according to Spicer. The painting is not only unprecedented for its portrayal of so many Jews — who have long beards, flat berets and yellow circles affixed to their clothes, per Charles V’s ruling — in the 1500s, but also for its depiction of so many African figures. Jews and blacks lived in coterminous neighborhoods at the port, which was considered less desirable real estate. One black man carrying a water jug on his head in the 16th-century painting wears chains, which were typically attached to a slave who tried to run away.
Viewers who read the wall texts at the Walters learn that though Africans were sold as slaves to Europe, their children were free. That’s why many of the African figures in the 16th-century painting are identifiable by their capes as free men. One — who may be João de Sá Panasco, who worked his way up from slave and jester to gentleman — is shown riding a horse and wearing the symbol of the Order of St. James.
_________________________________
^^^ Mike because of his poor research and attempts at changing history has written a yellow caption about this figure at the top of this post It says>
"Appears to be the King of Portugal" --Mike111
^^^ totally ridiculous, as if these Portugese pioneers of the Trans Arlantic slave trade and the king himself was black. stop the madness
This is the type of clowing and tom foolery that Mike is promoting on his website
A Social History of Black Slaves and Freedmen in Portugal, 1441-1555 By A. C. de C. M. Saunders
____________________
Courts, Blacks at Early Modern European Aristocratic’, Encyclopaedia of Blacks in European History and Culture (2008),Vol. I, pp. 163-166.
People of African origin or descent were present at most European royal and aristocratic courts during the early modern period, where they performed a variety of roles ranging from stable hand to prince. Africans had long been part of court culture, but numbers increased as a result of European involvement in the slave trade to the Americas from the fifteenth century onward. Africans were not only a source of cheap labour, but also functioned as exotic symbols of power and wealth.
Europeans had employed black musicians and entertainers at court since at least 1194, when Holy Roman Emperor Henry VI (1165-1197) was accompanied by turbaned black trumpeters on his triumphal entry into Sicily. In 1470 a “black slave called Martino” was purchased to be the trumpeter on board the Neopolitan royal ship Barcha. Henry VII of England employed a black trumpeter named John Blanke, who was paid 8d a day in 1507. Henry VIII retained Blanke’s services. The Westminster Tournament Roll of 1511, which commemorates the celebrations that marked the birth of a short-lived son to Henry VIII and Katharine of Aragon, depicts a black trumpeter believed to be Blanke.
Elizabeth I had a “Lytle black a more” boy at her court and Anthonie Vause, a black trumpeter, was employed at the Tower of London in 1618. A Moorish “taubronar” or drummer devised a dance with 12 performers in black and white costumes for the Shrove Tuesday celebrations at the court of James IV of Scotland (1473-1513) in 1505. Teodosio I, Duke of Bragança (1510-1563) had ten black musicians, who played the charamela (a wind-instrument). A 1555 list of galley slaves belonging to Cosimo I de’ Medici (1519-1574) of Florence included a moro negro described as a trumpeter. In 1713, Frederick William I, later king of Prussia, asked for “several black boys aged between 13 and 15, all well-shaped” to be trained as musicians for his military regiments.
Blacks were often employed in royal and aristocratic stables. In 1507 the Duke of Medina Sidonia had seven black slaves working in his stables in Seville. Don Antonio, Prior of Crato (1531-1595) had a Moor named Antonio Luis working in his stable in Evora, brought from Tangiers, where he had been governor. Teodosio I of Bragança had 20 black stable boys. Blacks are often depicted handling horses in portraits, such as Daniel Mytens, King Charles and Queen Henrietta Maria Departing for the Chase (c.1630-32). Blacks were often excellent horsemen, such as the ‘Mour’ described in a letter from Lady Home to Mary of Guise in 1549 as being “as scharp a man as rydis.”
Blacks were also employed in the kitchen. King Joao III (1502-1557) gave his bride Catherine of Austria (1507-1578) a black pastry chef and confectioner named Domingos de Frorenca as a wedding present in 1526. They also had a black cook named Manuel. ‘James the Blackamoor’ was cook in the household of the Earl of Bath in Devon from 1639 to 1646.
The wealthiest aristocrats had the largest numbers of black slaves. Cardinal Luigi d’Este (1538-1586) had 80 slaves in his villa at Tivoli outside Rome. When they rebelled in 1580, he bought another 50. Teodosio I of Bragança owned 36 slaves: the Bragança were the most powerful noble family in Portugal, and eventually became her kings in the seventeenth century. Catherine of Austria, queen of Portugal from 1526 to 1557, was granted a yearly number of slaves from the customs houses. There were several blacks at the court of Louis XIV (1643-1715), including one presented to Queen Marie Therese in 1663. In 1680 Frederick William of Brandenberg established a Prussian outpost on the Gold Coast so that he could adorn his court with a few ‘handsome and well-built’ African men.
As a further display of wealth, black attendants were decked in rich clothes and jewellery. In 1577, Elizabeth I of England bought a “Garcon coate of white Taffeta, cut and lined with tincel, striped down with gold and silver…pointed with pynts and ribands” for her “lytle Blackamore.” In 1491 Isabella D’Este asked Giorgio Brognolo, her agent in Venice, to obtain “una moreta” between 1 ½ and 4 years old, and “as black as possible”. Darker skin was preferred, for it contrasted effectually with the diamond or pearl earrings with which the Africans would be adorned. It also set off the fair skin so prized by aristocratic women as depicted in portraits, where it was increasingly fashionable for a lady to be shown with a black attendant.
Some blacks took advantage of the opportunities available at court to advance themselves, either through education or military pursuits. João de Sa Panasco (fl.1524-1567), who began as a court jester in Lisbon, went on to become a gentleman of the household, king’s valet, a soldier who participated in Charles V’s campaign in North Africa in 1535 and finally member of the prestigious Order of Santiago.The Moor depicted by Jan Mostaert in a portrait (c.1525-30) seems to have reached a high status at the court of Margaret of Austria at Malines. The famous scholar Juan Latino (d.1590) grew up in the household of the Duke of Sessa in Granada, where he accompanied his young master to daily grammar classes, and eventually became a published author and lecturer at the University of Granada. Anton Wilhelm Amo, baptised in 1707 at Salzthal Castle, the home of the Duke of Wolfenbuttel, was to become a philosopher, with degrees from Universities of Halle and Wittenberg. Abraham Hannibal came to the court of Tsar Peter I (1672-1725) in Moscow in 1705 having been purchased by the Russian ambassador in Istanbul. He became a military engineer and major general. His great-grandson was Alexander Pushkin.
Not all blacks at European courts were purchased slaves. Visitors and ambassadors from Ethiopia and Congo were not uncommon. In 1488, Senegalese Prince “Bemoim” visited King Joao II in Lisbon. In 1491, Ercole d’Este of Ferrara began the practice of washing the feet of “religiosi indiani”, which were probably Ethiopian monks on their way to Rome as pilgrims. Some “blak More freirs” or friars were James IV’s guests at the Scottish court in 1508. In 1544 Dom Henrique, nephew of the King of Congo, visited Lisbon. Pope Leo X later consecrated him as a Bishop. A Morrocan embassy visited England in 1600. From 1652 to 1658, Abba Gregoryus, an Ethiopian priest, stayed at the court of Ernest, Duke of Saxony in Saxe-Gotha, where he tutored German scholar Job Lludolf in the languages of Ge’ez and Amharic.
One man of African descent actually ruled an early modern court. Alessandro de’Medici (1510-1537), the illegitimate son of a black woman, Simonetta da Colle Vecchio, became the first hereditary duke of Florence. Many European Royal Houses can trace their descent back to him.
______________________________________
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
The defeat of Blacks during the Thirty Years Wars, (which were actually "Race" wars that modern Albinos call "Religious" Wars), was the deciding factor in the loss of Europe to the Albino people. Actually Martin Luther, Calvin, and other Albinos, created the Protestant sect of Christianity as a way to focus European Albinos into a common cause force. Unfortunately many Blacks, including royalty, fell for their Bullsh1t, and in fact aided in the defeat of Europe's Blacks.
Excerpt from:
Teutonic Knights: Their Organization And History Author: Woodhouse, F. C.
Casimir, King of Poland, who had long had hostile intentions against the order, secretly threw all his weight into the cause of the malcontents, who made such way that the grand master was forced to retire to Marienberg, his
capital, where he was soon closely besieged. Casimir now openly declared war, and laid claim to the dominions of the knights in Prussia and Pomerania, formally annexing them to the kingdom of Poland. The grand master sent petitions for aid to the neighboring princes, but without success. The kings of Denmark and Sweden excused themselves on account of the distance of their dominions from the seat of war. Ladislaus, King of Bohemia and Hungary, was about to marry his sister to Casimir, and the religious dissensions of Bohemia and the attacks of the Turks upon Hungary fully occupied his attention and demanded the employment of all his troops and treasure; and finally the capture of Constantinople by Mahomet at this very time (1458) seemed to paralyze the energies of the European powers.
The grand master, Louis d'Erlichshausen, thus found himself deserted in his time of need. He did what he could by raising a considerable body of mercenaries, and with these, his knights, and the regular troops of the order, he defended himself with courage and wonderful endurance, so that he not only succeeded in holding the city, but recovered several other towns that had revolted.
But his resources were unequal to the demands made upon them, his enemy overwhelmed him with numbers, his own soldiers clamored for their pay long overdue, and there was no prospect of aid from without. There was nothing left, therefore, to him but to make the best terms he could. He adopted the somewhat singular plan of making over Marienberg and what remained of the dominions of the order to the chiefs who had given him aid, in payment for their services, and he himself, with his knights and troops, retired to Koenigsberg, which then became the capital of the order. Marienberg soon afterward came into the hands of Casimir; but the knights again captured it, and again lost it, 1460.
War continued year after year between Poland and the knights, the general result of which was that the latter were defeated and lost one town after another, till, in 1466, a peace was concluded, by the terms of which the knights ceded to Poland almost all the western part of their dominions, retaining only a part of Eastern Prussia, with Koenigsberg for their capital, the grand master acknowledging himself the vassal of the King of Poland, with the title of Prince and Councillor of the kingdom. In 1497 the order lost its possessions in Sicily through the influence of the Pope and the King of Aragon, who combined to deprive it of them. It still retained a house at Venice, and some other property in Lombardy.
In 1511 Albert de Brandenberg was elected grand master. He made strenuous efforts to procure the independence of the order, and solicited the aid of the Emperor to free it from the authority of Poland, but without success. The grand master refused the customary homage to the King of Poland, and, after fruitless negotiations, war was once more declared, which continued till 1521, when peace was concluded; one of the results of which was the separation of Livonia from the dominion of the order, and its erection into an independent state.
All this time the doctrines of Luther had been making progress and spreading among all classes in Prussia and Germany. In 1522 the grand master went to Nuremberg to consult with the Lutherans there, and shortly afterward he visited Luther himself at Wittenberg. Luther's advice was decided and trenchant. He poured contempt upon the rules of the order, and advised Albert to break away from it and marry. Melancthon supported Luther's counsels.
Shortly after, Luther wrote a vigorous letter to the knights of the order, in which he maintained that it was of no use to God or man. He urged all the members to break their vow of celibacy and to marry, saying that it was impossible for human nature to be chaste in any other way, and that God's law, which commanded man to increase and multiply, was older than the decrees of councils and the vows of religious orders. At the request of the grand master he also sent missionaries into Prussia to preach the reformed doctrines. One or two bishops and many of the clergy accepted them, and they spread rapidly among the people. Services began to be said in the vulgar tongue, and images and other ornaments were pulled down in the churches, especially in the country districts.
In 1525 Albert met the King of Poland at Cracow, and formally resigned his office as grand master of the Teutonic order, making over his dominions to the King, and receiving from him in return the title of hereditary Duke of Prussia.
Shortly afterward he followed Luther's advice, and married the princess Dorothea of Denmark. Many of the knights followed his example. The annals and archives of the order were transferred to the custody of the King of Poland, and were lost or destroyed during the troubles that subsequently came upon that kingdom.
A considerable number of the knights refused to change their religion and abandon their order, and in 1527 assembled in chapter at Mergentheim to consult as to their plans for the future. They elected Walter de Cronberg grand master, whose appointment was ratified by the Emperor, Charles V. In the religious wars that followed, the knights fought on the side of the Emperor, against the Protestants. In 1595 the commandery of Venice was sold to the Patriarch and was converted into a diocesan seminary; and in 1637 the commandery of Utrecht was lost to the order. In 1631 Mergentheim was taken by the Swedes under General Horn.
In the war against the Turks during this period some of the knights, true to the ancient principles of their order, took part on the Christian side, both in Hungary and in the Mediterranean. In the wars of Louis XIV, the order lost many of its remaining commanderies, and by an edict of the King, in 1672, the separate existence of the order was abolished in his dominions, and its possessions were conferred on the Order of St. Lazarus. When Prussia was erected into a kingdom, in 1701, the order issued a solemn protest against the act, asserting its ancient rights over that country. The order maintained its existence in an enfeebled condition till 1809, when it was formally abolished by Napoleon. In 1840 Austria instituted an honorary order called by the same name, and in 1852 Prussia revived it under the designation of the Order of St. John.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: The defeat of Blacks during the Thirty Years Wars, (which were actually "Race" wars
that is a total 100% LIE
Only somebody very uneducated who didn't know how to research or was very young might read this on Mike's webiste and be tricked into believing it.
Unfortunately there are are a lot of people like that. And his lies and nonsense have been spreaing on the web for the several years
Mike is toxic to Black History
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Lioness - It appears that it's only Africans on the board right now, and as you know, this stuff just goes right over their heads. So you're on your own, your lies will go unanswered - bye.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: The defeat of Blacks during the Thirty Years Wars, (which were actually "Race" wars that modern Albinos call "Religious" Wars), was the deciding factor in the loss of Europe to the Albino people. Actually Martin Luther, Calvin, and other Albinos, created the Protestant sect of Christianity as a way to focus European Albinos into a common cause force. Unfortunately many Blacks, including royalty, fell for their Bullsh1t, and in fact aided in the defeat of Europe's Blacks.
Excerpt from:
Teutonic Knights: Their Organization And History Author: Woodhouse, F. C.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Death of Ulrich von Jungingen in battle of Grunwald 1410 part of Battle of Grunwald 1410 by Jan Matejko (1838-1893):
Closeup of above painting of Ulrich von Jungingen 1878 by Jan Matejko.
Painted 468 years after Ulrich von Jungingen's death in 1410.
But Mike will leave his poorer quality version where it accidentally looks like he has a big afro
I already exposed this before yet he will leave it up on his website to fool and miseducate people because he's a chronic compulsive liar
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
Mike, that history is no more "his-story", that is "us in his-story", you are once again placing what Europeans did above of what all the entire world did.
Who is financing you? I'm sure there is someone behind all this madness and the thousands of internet trolls that incessantly repeat this distorted version of history.
I saw those pics, with the captions, all over the internet.
If only the same time you wasted distorting European history was placed in showing real African history...
a typical Bamileke house
a Bamileke "town hall"
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Now that I look closer only the way he holds that cloth that he uses as a skirt come from local royal traditions, but the textures on it are European. A prince with no shame and no pride, a complete sellout.
So all of that analysis and comparing that I did was a waste of time for you eh?
You knew going in what it was, and you were not going to let logic and evidence get in the way of you knowing what you know.
If I hadn't forced you to actually think about it - What then?
You're African, aren't you?
BTW - What's African about the way he holds his Sash?
Lara and genius. Fragment. Genius at the altar and flutist.
Fresco from Pompeii (insula VIII, 2, larary). Fourth style. 69-79. Inv. Number 8905. Naples, National Archaeological Museum.
We are dealing with 19th century Europe clown
find a 19th century European royal holding a larged bunched up cloth like that at theigh level
The hat/crown, I'm not sure about the pom pom type thing Could be European or only sem- European (not the cross emblems the top part. Again it has to be of the time period
This is just for curiosity at this point. His clothing doesn't have to be African in any way in order for him to be a Kingdom of Kongo royal, client of the Portugese -an African person
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Mike, that history is no more "his-story", that is "us in his-story", you are once again placing what Europeans did above of what all the entire world did.
Who is financing you? I'm sure there is someone behind all this madness and the thousands of internet trolls that incessantly repeat this distorted version of history.
I saw those pics, with the captions, all over the internet.
If only the same time you wasted distorting European history was placed in showing real African history...
So then, until the transatlantic Slave trade, the only place where Blacks resided was in Africa.
I know a few Africans, though they have a tendency to be "Hardheaded" I do not consider them to be stupid.
What you have just said "IS" stupid, it reminds me of what an Albino mole would say to confuse ignorant Blacks - very similar to what lamin does.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
what do you know about the history of, let's say, Ivory Coast?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^I know nothing of the history of Ivory Coast, my interest is in Black civilizations. Aside from Adams/Enkis Calendar in S.A. and a few stones in Zimbabwe, I see no evidence of such in Sub-Sahara Africa.
However, what I do find is people very much like you and the Albino people; that is, people all too willing to obfuscate and concoct historical lies in order to improve their place in history.
The Albino people decided that in order for them to get ahead, they had to destroy all the Blacks within reach, which they did. They then decided that they had to create a history for themselves; which the did by usurping Black history and creating fake artifacts, such as paintings and statues of Albinos, in the historical roles of Blacks - See fake Egyptian statuary for examples.
After the Central Asian Albinos took Europe, they found that it could not support all of their people, even with the Blacks exterminated. Having already taken North Africa, they expanded into Sub-Sahara Africa and the Americas, until finally they had polluted the entire world.
As to you Africans:
While all of this was going on, were you fighting to stop it? No, you were busy selling your own people to the Albinos as Slaves, which was a great help to the Albinos in taming their conquered lands.
Were you Africans documenting these historical events so that when Black across the world got their footing back, they would know what happened?
Well, unless there are some accounts in those sad Turk mimicking manuscripts in Mali from just a few hundred years ago, then the answer is no.
So what did you Africans do?
Well, it appears that you did something that you are really good at, you played the part of assholes. You mimic Arabs (Turks actually), then you mimic Albinos. As far as social practices go, whatever stupidness that a human mind can come up with, you have put into practice.
And then, as your crowning achievement in that area, many of you have taken to denying Black history outside of Africa, as a way to obfuscate your own backwardness and lack of achievement.
Only by succinctly stating what your position really meant, (People like you are in effect saying that until the transatlantic Slave trade, the only place where Blacks resided was in Africa - which even to a weak mind should be an absurdity, but sadly it isn't.) was I able to jog your mind into a mode where logical thought was possible, as evidenced by your more sensible reply.
Hopefully you mind will stay in a logical thought mode, and you might be able to raise Africa out of it's self induced malaise.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I know nothing of the history of Ivory Coast, my interest is in Black civilizations. Aside from Adams/Enkis Calendar in S.A. and a few stones in Zimbabwe, I see no evidence of such in Sub-Sahara Africa.
However, what I do find is people very much like you and the Albino people; that is, people all too willing to obfuscate and concoct historical lies in order to improve their place in history.
The Albino people decided that in order for them to get ahead, they had to destroy all the Blacks within reach, which they did. They then decided that they had to create a history for themselves; which the did by usurping Black history and creating fake artifacts, such as paintings and statues of Albinos, in the historical roles of Blacks - See fake Egyptian statuary for examples.
After the Central Asian Albinos took Europe, they found that it could not support all of their people, even with the Blacks exterminated. Having already taken North Africa, they expanded into Sub-Sahara Africa and the Americas, until finally they had polluted the entire world.
As to you Africans:
While all of this was going on, were you fighting to stop it? No, you were busy selling your own people to the Albinos as Slaves, which was a great help to the Albinos in taming their conquered lands.
Were you Africans documenting these historical events so that when Black across the world got their footing back, they would know what happened?
Well, unless there are some accounts in those sad Turk mimicking manuscripts in Mali from just a few hundred years ago, then the answer is no.
So what do you Africans do?
Well, it appears that you did something that you are really good at, you played the part of assholes. You mimic Arabs, then you mimic Albinos. As far as social practices go, whatever stupidness that a human mind can come up with, you have put into practice.
And then, as your crowning achievement in that area, many of you have taken to denying Black history outside of Africa, as a way to obfuscate your own backwardness and lack of achievement.
Only by succinctly stating what your position really meant, (People like you are in effect saying that until the transatlantic Slave trade, the only place where Blacks resided was in Africa - which even to a weak mind should be an absurdity, but sadly it isn't.) was I able to jog your mind into a mode where logical thought was possible, as evidenced by your more sensible reply.
Hopefully you mind will stay in a logical thought mode, and you might be able to raise Africa out of it's self induced malaise.
I'm really challenged
1 - are you even Black? Who's paying you to create lies and spread them across the net?
2 - you don't even seem to aknowledge how a kingdom in Sub Saharan Africa usually works, how history is stored, you even go far to say "there is nothing like civilization in Sub Saharan Africa", it's really hard for me to believe you are really Black, you didn't even study at least 1 African kingdom outside North Africa in ALL these years
3 - you have a problem with Africa and you're scared to study African history, it's called "self hate"
I have 2 questions for you
first question
do you think the Blacks that ruled Europe were the so called "Afro Americans" of today?
second question
can you place geographically these 2 images?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: 1 - are you even Black? Who's paying you to create lies and spread them across the net?
2 - you don't even seem to aknowledge how a kingdom in Sub Saharan Africa usually works, how history is stored, you even go far to say "there is nothing like civilization in Sub Saharan Africa", it's really hard for me to believe you are really Black, you didn't even study at least 1 African kingdom outside North Africa in ALL these years
3 - you have a problem with Africa and you're scared to study African history, it's called "self hate"
I have 2 questions for you
first question
do you think the Blacks that ruled Europe were the so called "Afro Americans" of today?
1) Please specify what lies you have found.
2) African American is a new term, coined only recently.
The U.S. and the Caribbean Islands are populated by Blacks expelled from Europe "AND" African Slaves.
Yes I am Black, proudly so: but also ashamedly so because of the shame Africans have brought to Black people. Whenever an Albino wants to deny Black achievement, they will invariably point to Africa as an example of how fuched-up and backward Blacks are, and then ask the question: how could such fuched-up people possibly have created advanced civilizations.
Then along comes ass-holes like you, saying the SAME thing! I mean, have you people any idea of how incredibly stupid you are?
3) Yes, I have a very serious problem with Africa for the reasons given in my last post and above.
I have no idea what that building is, or what it represents.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
I have 2 questions for you
1 - Who were your ancestors? People "expelled from Europe" in results to the "war between Blacks and Whites for the control of Europe" or African people kidnapped from Africa and shipped like cattle in inhuman conditions to America?
2 - how many royal palaces located in Sub Saharan Africa do you know?
the 2 buildings are the first the palace of a chief in Northern Ivory Coast, the second the residence of a noble in Southern Ivory Coast, the first a building of the Senufo people, the second is a traditional building of the Akan people
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: The U.S. and the Caribbean Islands are populated by Blacks expelled from Europe "AND" African Slaves.
For a long time I wondered how to tell the difference between Western Blacks of African and European/Asian extraction.
Then I realized that things like intellectual outlook and aesthetics were things that last through many generations.
So if I look for similar concepts of beauty and style, then I should be able to tell who are the people of African extraction.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike always connects the dots But they're the wrong dots
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
There are like 95% of possibilities they were kidnapped, the French were the biggest kidnappers ever, and they used to sell to the British, Americans, etc, West Africa was their "hunting area"
So, your ancestors came from West Africa. What did they built there? Which were their capital cities? They royal palaces, buildings, temples/mosques etc?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
There are like 95% of possibilities they were kidnapped, the French were the biggest kidnappers ever, and they used to sell to the British, Americans, etc, West Africa was their "hunting area"
So, your ancestors came from West Africa. What did they built there? Which were their capital cities? They royal palaces, buildings, temples/mosques etc?
what is the estimated percentage of African slaves who were brought to the Americas that were sold by Kongo and other African kingdoms to the Europeans
compared to people that were kidnapped and then made into slaves ?
Please use reference sources to answer this. a credible website or book reference
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
There are like 95% of possibilities they were kidnapped, the French were the biggest kidnappers ever, and they used to sell to the British, Americans, etc, West Africa was their "hunting area"
So, your ancestors came from West Africa. What did they built there? Which were their capital cities? They royal palaces, buildings, temples/mosques etc?
what is the estimated percentage of African slaves who were brought to the Americas that were sold by Kongo and other African kingdoms to the Europeans
compared to people that were kidnapped and then made into slaves ?
Please use reference sources to answer this. a credible website or book reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#cite_note-44 It is estimated that more than half of the entire slave trade took place during the 18th century, with the British, Portuguese and French being the main carriers of nine out of ten slaves abducted from Africa
source: Keith Bradley, Paul Cartledge (2011). The Cambridge World History of Slavery. Cambridge University Press. p. 583
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abducted ab·duct (ăb-dŭkt′) tr.v. ab·duct·ed, ab·duct·ing, ab·ducts 1. To carry off by force; kidnap. Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
half of the slaves (40%) came from Angola (http://africanhistory.about.com/od/slavery/a/Slavery101.htm), "abducted" (funny term, maybe they feel themselves less guilt) by the Portuguese.
Angola is a giant country, but WITH ONLY 20 MILLION INHABITANTS, guess why
but think about it, after 30 years of Apartheid South Africa and CIA financied civil war, where the country is heading
At this point we must remember that history is written only by the victors. In Germany the Black Genocide event is the "Thirty years war" (1618–1648). This war is said to be about the Protestants adherents of Martin Luther against the Catholic forces of Ferdinand II of the Habsberg Holy Roman Emperors. But Blacks such as Duke Albert were supportive of the Protestants, therefore the Albino explanation of religion as the cause of the wars can only be seen as just another Albino lie. When the result is the eradication of one race by another, regardless of what name or cause you give it, it was a race war! What we can say is that at the end of those wars, by their own estimates, the population had been reduced by approximately 40%. Judging by the result, the overwhelming majority of them were Blacks.
The Survivors were sold into Slavery.
Please pay close attention to the date of the German Genocide of Blacks (1618–1648)
Other portraits of the Duke
Mike debunk 84
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
There are like 95% of possibilities they were kidnapped, the French were the biggest kidnappers ever, and they used to sell to the British, Americans, etc, West Africa was their "hunting area"
So, your ancestors came from West Africa. What did they built there? Which were their capital cities? They royal palaces, buildings, temples/mosques etc?
what is the estimated percentage of African slaves who were brought to the Americas that were sold by Kongo and other African kingdoms to the Europeans
compared to people that were kidnapped and then made into slaves ?
Please use reference sources to answer this. a credible website or book reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#cite_note-44 It is estimated that more than half of the entire slave trade took place during the 18th century, with the British, Portuguese and French being the main carriers of nine out of ten slaves abducted from Africa
source: Keith Bradley, Paul Cartledge (2011). The Cambridge World History of Slavery. Cambridge University Press. p. 583
^^^^ there is no mention of how the slaves were acquired >> the word abducted or kidnapped doesn't appear, yet the page number reference is correct because in the text above its says:
" Together these three national carriers dominated the Atlantic slave trade before 1800, accounting for more than nine out of ten deported to the Americas in the eighteenth century"
wiki says:
"It is estimated that more than half of the entire slave trade took place during the 18th century, with the British, Portuguese and French being the main carriers of nine out of ten slaves abducted from Africa"
^^^ same "nine out of ten" phrase but wiki added the word abducted to the source If some slave were bought it is incorrect for them to just say "abducted", when it could be likely that more were bought than were abducted Some were abducted from Africa by Europeans but this statement doesn't indicate those "abducted" or captured in war IN Africa by Africans and then sold to Euroepans
Please find another source or look deeper in this same book of the answer
The West African empires of this period peaked in power in the late 18th century, paralleling the peak of the Atlantic slave trade. These empires implemented a culture of permanent warfare in order to generate the required numbers of captives required to satisfy the demand for slaves by the European colonies. With the gradual abolition of slavery in the European colonial empires during the 19th century, slave trade again became less lucrative and the West African empires entered a period of decline, and mostly collapsed by the end of the 19th century
____________________________
^^^ As we know the Europeans wer happy to add fuel to the fire by supplying guns and encouraging triangular conflicts
How did an African become a slave? At first, white slave traders simply went on kidnapping raids, but this proved too dangerous for the Europeans. Instead, they established hundreds of forts and trading stations along Africa’s West Coast. Local African rulers and black merchants delivered captured people to these trading posts to sell as slaves to European ship captains.
About 50 percent of the slaves were taken as prisoners during the frequent tribal wars occurring among the West African kingdoms. Another 30 percent became slaves as punishment for crimes or indebtedness. The remainder were kidnapped by black slave traders.
An African trader usually transported his slaves to a coastal trading station by binding them around the neck with leather thongs, each slave about a yard distance from each other. There were often 30 or 40 in a string. The factor living at the trading station negotiated a price between the African slave trader and the slave ship captain.
After making a deal with the factor, the traders transported the slaves in large canoes to the ship, riding at anchor just beyond the thundering surf. The factor supervised the branding and loading of the slaves onto the ship. For land-bound Africans who had never seen it before, the ocean was a terrifying sight. Some slaves tried to escape by jumping into the sea, only to be devoured by sharks.
Gustavus Vassa, an African slave who later gained his freedom and wrote an account of his life, described his experience boarding a slave ship:
I was immediately handled and tossed up to see if I were sound by some of the crew and I was now persuaded that I had gotten into a world of bad spirits and that they were going to kill me.... When I recovered, I found some black people about me. I asked if we were to be eaten by these men with horrible looks, red faces and long hair.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
There are like 95% of possibilities they were kidnapped, the French were the biggest kidnappers ever, and they used to sell to the British, Americans, etc, West Africa was their "hunting area"
So, your ancestors came from West Africa. What did they built there? Which were their capital cities? They royal palaces, buildings, temples/mosques etc?
You stupid fuching ass-hole, please pay attention.
ASIAN BLACKS.
India.
Mani of Thailand.
Andaman Islands
Negritos - From Andaman's to Malay Peninsula to Philipines
Papua New Guinea
Australia
Tasmania
MORE.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Fiji
Vanuatu
Hawaii
Solomon Islands
Samoa
South Americans.
MORE.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Central America
Canada Modern Tsimshia territory - 2000 ya.
^So then idiot, why couldn't my ancestors have been from one of the peoples pictured above, who have been in place and out of Africa for thousands of years? Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike get it over with.
take a DNA test, I'll pay for it
>>>unless you're scared<<<
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
TheAfricaTNSY - Do you now understand my disgust with you Africans: and why Africans like you are such an embarrassment to me as a Black man?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike what would you do if you found out you were 90% African ? would your world be turned upside down ?
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
the lioness, I searched even documents written in French, all of them are "some", "but", no datas (but I know they have them). But we have this simple graph (plus the memories of people living in the coast of West Africa)
37% of Africans shipped to America were Angolans...
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Mike South of the Sahara Africa Had many great Kingdoms and Empires acknowledged by Moors, Arabs and Europeans traders. The Ghana Empire, The Mali Empire, the Songhai empire, The Monomotapa Empire, Kanem Bornu Empire, The Axum Empire, The Mossi kingdom, the Benin kingdom, The Ibo republic, The Akan Kingdoms, The Swahili kingdoms, Buganda Kingdom etc. There are also the African Empire of Sudan like Makuria Empire and Funj Empire.
Moorishs, Arabs, Portugueses, Dutchs, Englishs and French traders reported in their writings the African kingdoms and Empires they visited before the European African slave trade were rich, well organized, well governed and didn't have crimes. The European Atlantic slave trade and the divide and conquer wars imposed on the Africans by the Europeans destroyed and impoverished the African kingdoms. A few West and Central West African kings were guilty for participating in the transatlantic slave trade invented and imposed on them by the European gun powder superpowers. The majority of the West and Central African Kings were forced into the Europeans atlantic slave trade.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: TheAfricaTNSY - Do you now understand my disgust with you Africans: and why Africans like you are such an embarrassment to me as a Black man?
You have no pride and no shame, you're like the kings of Kongo, ready to sell your brothers to become "an European", "one of them", and ready to destroy your same history only to become part of "his-story".
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by mena7: Mike South of the Sahara Africa Had many great Kingdoms and Empires acknowledged by Moors, Arabs and Europeans traders. The Ghana Empire, The Mali Empire, the Songhai empire, The Monomotapa Empire, Kanem Bornu Empire, The Axum Empire, The Mossi kingdom, the Benin kingdom, The Ibo republic, The Akan Kingdoms, The Swahili kingdoms, Buganda Kingdom etc. There are also the African Empire of Sudan like Makuria Empire and Funj Empire.
Moorishs, Arabs, Portugueses, Dutchs, Englishs and French traders reported in their writing the African kingdoms and Empires they visited before the European African slave trade were rich, well organized, well governed and didn't have crimes. The European Atlantic slave trade and the divide and conquer wars imposed on the African by the Europeans destroyed and impoverished the African kingdoms. A few West and Central West African kings were guilty for participating in the transatlantic slave trade invented and imposed on them by the European gun powder superpower. The majority of the West and Central African Kings were forced into the Europeans atlantic slave trade.
For example while the famous Ashanti kingdom started selling a part of their population (that were already slaves, the type of slavery where a son of a slave is a free slave), the chieftaincies of far North had to defend themselves from being kidnapped by the British or sell out Africans that started working with the Brits.
These are the ruins of a wall built to protect Gwollu, in Northern Ghana, from slave traders
the architectural style is this, the one you can find in the far North of Ghana
residence of the chief of Wa
residence of the chief of Han
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Mike what would you do if you found out you were 90% African ? would your world be turned upside down ?
Like ALL humans, Albinos and Mulattoes like yourself included, I am 100% African.
However if you mean "Recent" African, then the answer is that I would be very disappointed.
Here is why:
Take lamin, Ra, Firewall?, and now TheAfricaTNSY: all supposedly Africans, and all castigating me for teaching Black European history. Their point being that there was no such a thing as Black Europeans.
Consider the stupidity of their proposition:
Blacks established cultures and civilizations all over the world, but they just couldn't cross those few miles across the strait of Gibraltar or the less than a mile across the Bosphorus to enter Europe.
I just can't get over that, it takes incredible stupidity to believe such nonsense. Yes, many Albinos believe that very thing, but what choice do they have? If they don't believe that, then they have to admit what murdering, lying, degenerates their people are. But that is not the situation that Africans are in.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
As there were no Asian kingdoms in Europe, there were no African kingdoms in Europe, apart from the Moors in southern Italy and Spain. Europe is not the center of the world, as your biased American education teached you.
Start studying African kingdoms, because you have a severe lack of information about everything African/Black.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: TheAfricaTNSY - Do you now understand my disgust with you Africans: and why Africans like you are such an embarrassment to me as a Black man?
You have no pride and no shame, you're like the kings of Kongo, ready to sell your brothers to become "an European", "one of them", and ready to destroy your same history only to become part of "his-story". [/qb]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] Mike what would you do if you found out you were 90% African ? would your world be turned upside down ?
Like ALL humans, Albinos and Mulattoes like yourself included, I am 100% African.
However if you mean "Recent" African, then the answer is that I would be very disappointed.
While DNA tests aren't entirely accurate yet to the exact regions one comes from I think if you took a DNA test you could be linked to a continent of recent origin with certainty (perhaps adding some other type of genealogical research) It would certainly be more knowledge compared to no testing.
So why not take the test and while risking diappointment know the truth?
Isn't it better to have some evidence, some biological data rather than none? to know who you really are rather than always be in a state of wondering ?
If you might be put inot a state of dissappointment wouldn't it be better to enter that state and then find a way get beyond or accept it rather than staying where you are in a state of fear of knowing?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: As there were no Asian kingdoms in Europe, there were no African kingdoms in Europe, apart from the Moors in southern Italy and Spain. Europe is not the center of the world, as your biased American education teached you.
Start studying African kingdoms, because you have a severe lack of information about everything African/Black.
Yes, you are correct, there was none of this in Europe.
quote:
BUT THERE WAS PLENTY OF THIS! .
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Africans are universally disrespected in the world, by Black, White, and Mongol. Ignoramuses like you, who persist in their stupidities, even when corrected, are the reason why. But you are aided in bringing Africa down by those few Africans who know better, but will not speak up.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^You fools make much of your new friend China, but China like all others, looks down on you fools, and abuses you at every turn. And why not, that's how everybody else got ahead, and you fools never learn.
Last week the Wall Street Journal reported that many governments are starting to reduce visa and citizenship requirements in order to attract wealthy Chinese immigrants to invest in their cash-strapped economies. In particular, countries in Southern Europe and the Caribbean are avidly trying to attract Chinese immigrants by providing them unfettered travel access or cheap real estate options to purchase homes.
As Chinese citizens are tempted by these governments to invest and relocate abroad, China has been experiencing an influx of immigrants as well – many of whom have come from Africa.
Guangzhou, one of China’s largest cities and a main manufacturing hub in the Pearl River Delta, is home to over 20,000 Africans who hail from West African countries such as Nigeria, Mauritania, Mali, and Guinea. Some claim that the numbers are actually closer to several hundred thousand African residents, with 30-40 percent growth in African immigration each year. As China continues its push into Africa in pursuit of economic resources and important diplomatic relations, many Africans are coming to China in search of job opportunities.
Many African entrepreneurs buy cheap Chinese goods, such as knockoff brand jeans, shoes, and jerseys – and sell them back home for a profit. Others capitalize on higher-end products such as electronics, furniture, and motor vehicles. Aside from commercial activities, Nigerian missionaries have also traveled to Guangzhou to spread their faith and help the large African community that has developed in Guangdong Province.
Most of Guangzhou’s African population is located in Xiaobei, earning the 10 kilometer area names like “Little Africa” or “Africa Town” – similar to the “Chinatowns” found throughout the U.S. where Chinese immigrant populations reside in large numbers. Africans are attracted to this area because of its Muslim restaurants and the African community that has already been established there, making it easier to transition into a new environment. Some Chinese locals refer to this area as “Chocolate City”, which could certainly be construed as discriminatory.
Nelson, a Nigerian who is trying to make a living by reselling Chinese goods in Africa spoke about his experience living in Guangdong, “Though we’ve tried hard to fit in this city, we can feel people look at us with a different eye. It’s harder for us to get a taxi than for the locals, many of us got refused… or extorted. Sometimes, we have to make the driver think we are heading for the airport to get permitted to get in the cab although we are not really heading to the airport. And of course, the price is much higher.”
Many of Guangdong’s Africans are illegal immigrants or people overstaying their visas. As the problem of illegal immigration has gotten worse, the local government has started cracking down. Illegal immigrants who are caught by local authorities are often imprisoned and charged a hefty fine. In some cases, these immigrants have had their homes raided or were severely beaten. Some immigrants have even taken to the streets to protest how authorities have treated them.
While local authorities certainly should treat these individuals more humanely, many of these problems stem from the fact that Africans are not respecting Chinese laws and are not applying for the proper documentation to legally reside in China. Many immigrants ignore these laws because getting long-term visas is difficult, especially compared with 30 day visas.
Perhaps the answer to the problem lies in the need for the Chinese government to make long-term visas more accessible to Africans. As African nations welcome China to do business in their countries, China should more diligently return the favor. Also, if more Chinese decide to emigrate to areas like Southern Europe or the Caribbean, the Chinese government may want to adjust its immigration policy to allow Africans to stay in the mainland for longer periods of time in order to retain a labor force that can keep fueling its economy.
Elleka Watts is an editorial assistant at The Diplomat.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Just as Albinos can't help but lie, Africans can't help but fuch-up. To a sensible people and sensible governments who need to do business with each other, this would make no sense.
But when dealing with Africans reason, logic, and negotiations, goes out the window. Trying to treat Africans with intellectual respect is not necessary, and would probably result in them misunderstanding it in some way. So Africans continue around the world, fuching up as they go, never learning, and never being accepted.
The problem is that the rest of the worlds Blacks get put in the fuch-up basket created by Africans and we become suspect too.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
CongoForum is a website funded by the Belgium government, you even end up searching the help of who you call "the albinos" to reinforce your self hate problem.
The only country with many Chinese workers is Angola, and yet the Angolan law requests that 70% of workers must to be Angolan, and foreigners can't even buy land there. The only projecs were Chinese work (as the 30% of the workforce or less) are the ones built by Chinese state companies, and only a little minority of the landscape of Angolan real estate.
You are
1 - completely crazy, you need psychological assistance
2 - a complete loser, because you need to make up your own "his-story", this means you're a coward, a pathological liar, it was better for everyone (you included) if you were born white
3 - a person that does not deserve respect, an Uncle Ruckus
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: As there were no Asian kingdoms in Europe, there were no African kingdoms in Europe, apart from the Moors in southern Italy and Spain. Europe is not the center of the world, as your biased American education teached you.
Start studying African kingdoms, because you have a severe lack of information about everything African/Black.
Don't argue with him. he is one of those black Americans who are real slaves mentally. He is what you call a black Anglo Saxon. Their yardstick for what is "civilized" is what their masters have taught them. People like him are to far gone to help.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Now that I look closer only the way he holds that cloth that he uses as a skirt come from local royal traditions, but the textures on it are European. A prince with no shame and no pride, a complete sellout.
So all of that analysis and comparing that I did was a waste of time for you eh?
You knew going in what it was, and you were not going to let logic and evidence get in the way of you knowing what you know.
If I hadn't forced you to actually think about it - What then?
You're African, aren't you?
BTW - What's African about the way he holds his Sash?
Lara and genius. Fragment. Genius at the altar and flutist.
Fresco from Pompeii (insula VIII, 2, larary). Fourth style. 69-79. Inv. Number 8905. Naples, National Archaeological Museum.
What is african about the way he holds the cloth? lol you don't know anything about West Africa! Just go look at pictures of the Ashantehene and his entourage or any number of African royalty. This is very traditional. Your stupidity and love of being a slave blinds you from seeing that the way the Greeks dress with their "touga" is a directly African classical way of dressing that is still in vogue to this day. lay off Google and Flickr and do some real research.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: It's obvious there are similarities between Africa and other parts of the world.
These are some Akan coins which futures what in European nations is caled "swastica"
These are from the Adinkra logographic writing system. Logographic systems are the first type of writing systems known to man which were introduced into the world from africa. You find very ancient logographic systems in Qustul ie mtu ntr, later adopted by the conquered Egyptian Society that would later become Kemet, and its progenitor Kush. You find it also in writing systems found in the Sahara from a very early date. Japanese, Chinese, Korean are also logographic. Yoruba's also possess a logographic writing system, though the name of it escapes me now. It is used for religious purposes only, as are most African writing systems.
It would make sense that other parts of the world also have these symbols, as all of humanity is African in origin. It is only natural that Africans would have taken these concepts with them as they spread out over the world.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: What is african about the way he holds the cloth? lol you don't know anything about West Africa! Just go look at pictures of the Ashantehene and his entourage or any number of African royalty. This is very traditional. Your stupidity and love of being a slave blinds you from seeing that the way the Greeks dress with their "touga" is a directly African classical way of dressing that is still in vogue to this day. lay off Google and Flickr and do some real research.
2012 A.D.
BEFORE 100 A.D.
.
Damn you MFs are stupid!
Shut up and stop embarrassing intelligent Black people - you are a heavy burden. Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: It would make sense that other parts of the world also have these symbols, as all of humanity is African in origin. It is only natural that Africans would have taken these concepts with them as they spread out over the world.
WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!
YOUR position is that Blacks never went to Europe!
So you're saying that Blacks went all around the world, but couldn't make it those few miles to Europe?
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
Like I said:
Damn you MFs are stupid!
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I know nothing of the history of Ivory Coast, my interest is in Black civilizations. Aside from Adams/Enkis Calendar in S.A. and a few stones in Zimbabwe, I see no evidence of such in Sub-Sahara Africa.
However, what I do find is people very much like you and the Albino people; that is, people all too willing to obfuscate and concoct historical lies in order to improve their place in history.
The Albino people decided that in order for them to get ahead, they had to destroy all the Blacks within reach, which they did. They then decided that they had to create a history for themselves; which the did by usurping Black history and creating fake artifacts, such as paintings and statues of Albinos, in the historical roles of Blacks - See fake Egyptian statuary for examples.
After the Central Asian Albinos took Europe, they found that it could not support all of their people, even with the Blacks exterminated. Having already taken North Africa, they expanded into Sub-Sahara Africa and the Americas, until finally they had polluted the entire world.
As to you Africans:
While all of this was going on, were you fighting to stop it? No, you were busy selling your own people to the Albinos as Slaves, which was a great help to the Albinos in taming their conquered lands.
Were you Africans documenting these historical events so that when Black across the world got their footing back, they would know what happened?
Well, unless there are some accounts in those sad Turk mimicking manuscripts in Mali from just a few hundred years ago, then the answer is no.
So what did you Africans do?
Well, it appears that you did something that you are really good at, you played the part of assholes. You mimic Arabs (Turks actually), then you mimic Albinos. As far as social practices go, whatever stupidness that a human mind can come up with, you have put into practice.
And then, as your crowning achievement in that area, many of you have taken to denying Black history outside of Africa, as a way to obfuscate your own backwardness and lack of achievement.
Only by succinctly stating what your position really meant, (People like you are in effect saying that until the transatlantic Slave trade, the only place where Blacks resided was in Africa - which even to a weak mind should be an absurdity, but sadly it isn't.) was I able to jog your mind into a mode where logical thought was possible, as evidenced by your more sensible reply.
Hopefully you mind will stay in a logical thought mode, and you might be able to raise Africa out of it's self induced malaise.
You can't be this stupid? I am starting to believe you are a white man pretending to be black, much like that weird person lioness.
These are ruins in Mauritania of one of the cities once belonging to a great Mande empire which dates back to about ~3,000 BCE
Built by Mande people as they pushed further south and started to take over the forest belt region.
Mind you, most Europeans didn't start building in stone until about 1,000 AD or so, where as Mande's and Africans in general were using stone since the earliest times.
Video of man made walk way with retaining walls on either side of it, made by a queen who ruled over a kingdom now referred to as Sungbo Eredo
Again, Europeans don't start doing this until relatively recent times, around 1,000CE or so and even then it wasn't wide spread. It becomes wide spread in Europe around 1300/1400
just to give you a idea of the Sungbo Eredo wall on a human scale
Notice it is stone and you can even see what seems to be the remnants of pillars.
As to your sophomoric statement that Zimbabwe had a "few stones" lol, can you be any dumber? The retaining walls were 20 meters high and the actual royal city was about ~100 acres if I remember right, and all the homes were stone. It was so magnificent that euro-centric observers tried to attribute it to some mythical Phoenicians lol.
I could go on, but what is the point?
So let me recap.
1. Outside of Rome and Greece, who usually built in stone for Temples and for their savage entertainment, Europe didn't usually build in stone. At least not for their cities. It was reserved for places of worship. Europeans start using stone very late, around 1,000 CE or so.
2. Africans did build in stone. I would argue they were using stone before they turned to Adobe. I would assume because of a lack of materials. Which is also why you don't see africans using HUGE blocks of stone as you don't have many places to get the stuff from. People use what is available to them.
3. So called subsaharan Africa is teaming with kingdoms.
4. You don't understand African history at all. Mande people and many other groups do not show up in West Africa and other areas until relatively late. They are all in the Sahara around 4,000 BCE.
What is under that desert is anyone's guess, but I assure you, the day they dig there, it will make Egypt and Kush look stupid. They have already found one city in the Sahara which excavaters describe as "Castles and huge fortresses".
So now, if Africans are in the Sahara around 3,000 and GRADUALLY move south, with migrations continuing well until the 1600s CE, then naturally you are not going to see extremely ancient cities in current areas of habitation, because no one was there outside of dwarfs, to build them.
You need to stop with the google searches and flickr raids and actual read books and peer reviewed articles. And then you will start to connect the dots. You black anglo saxons are such a weird and uneducated lot. Its like you enjoy being slaves, and wanting to force your masters to love you. Its rather sick/sad.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: So now, if Africans are in the Sahara around 3,000 and GRADUALLY move south, with migrations continuing well until the 1600s CE, then naturally you are not going to see extremely ancient cities in current areas of habitation, because no one was there outside of dwarfs, to build them.
Soooo then, Sub-Sahara Africa was devoid of "Normal" Humans until about the 1600s A.D.
Okay, fine by me.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: It would make sense that other parts of the world also have these symbols, as all of humanity is African in origin. It is only natural that Africans would have taken these concepts with them as they spread out over the world.
WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!
YOUR position is that Blacks never went to Europe!
So you're saying that Blacks went all around the world, but couldn't make it those few miles to Europe?
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
Like I said:
Damn you MFs are stupid!
Either you didn't take your medication this morning, English isn't your first language OR you are really daft. I haven't decided which is the correct answer yet, but I suggest you read what I said again OR get someone older than you, with a bit more mental ability to help you understand what I wrote.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: So now, if Africans are in the Sahara around 3,000 and GRADUALLY move south, with migrations continuing well until the 1600s CE, then naturally you are not going to see extremely ancient cities in current areas of habitation, because no one was there outside of dwarfs, to build them.
Soooo then, Sub-Sahara Africa was devoid of "Normal" Humans until about the 1600s A.D.
Okay, fine by me.
Ancient Wagadou spanned from Mauritania to Senegal and Mali. I have posted pictures of those ruins. Those date back to 3,000 BCE. Great Zimb is BELIEVED to begin around 1200 BCE, though it could be older. Eridu in Nigeria is believed to be around 812 AD.
Modern day, tall statured Africans start out in the Sahara and N. Africa, the Sahara goes hyper arid around 4,000 BCE in the east and a little later in the West. Around 3,000 BCE you start to see towns and cities that resemble the sorts of stone towns and cities you find in the Sahara, in other parts of Africa further south.
As late as 500 BCE we still see large dwarf populations through out sub Saharan Africa as we see in two stories related by Herodotus, one with Libyans who venture to the south and then later Persians who sailed partly around the continent. There is also the story of Kukiya, a ancient city some where near Mali that was ruled by a tall statured man and the population was shorter than he was. Presumably this was probably the tall type of African who conquered or ruled over dwarfs. This kingdom was contemporaneous with Egypt. They have not found its location yet.
Anyway, the migrations from North to South continue from 3,000 BCE and end around 1600 BCE. This wasn't just one mass migration. People would leave, stop on the fringes of the sahel, create towns and cities, something would happen, then they would push further south, and this continues on for centuries, until they settle at their current places.
Think about your masters. Anglosaxons push in from the east and as they do, local populations either move out to get away or get absorbed. For example your masters' the angles come in, and conquer the saxons, who had come in and conquered picts for example. You don't hear about picts anymore because they were either absorbed or they moved away and assumed new identities in their new locations. You should be able to understand now, since massa did it too, now you can except it.
Posted by jantavanta (Member # 20328) on :
The Entire World was occupied by out of Africa Migration as from 45,000 years ago. There is no self-hate in recovering Europe from those who cannot archaeologically prove that they are the indigenes of Europe. http://www.supremedesignpublishing.com/product-p/sdp-wwb1_wwb2.htm
Europe is important to the African Question because the 1886 Conference of Berlin for the Partition of Africa was facilitated by the new concept of Race as a ladder against Black People that are re-defined to be found only in Africa and can go to Asia, but cannot find their way just across the Strait of Gibraltar to Europe before the existence of Moors?
quote:Originally posted by jantavanta: The Entire World was occupied by out of Africa Migration as from 45,000 years ago. There is no self-hate in recovering Europe from those who cannot archaeologically prove that they are the indigenes of Europe. http://www.supremedesignpublishing.com/product-p/sdp-wwb1_wwb2.htm
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ this book has an no author and it's not available on Amazon where people can review it. It's website sales only I suspect the info is ripped off from Mike's site.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Europe was primitive until recently
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^The African refrain "Claiming Europe is self hatred" is very interesting. Europe and Europeans (in general) are advanced: Africa and Africans (in general) are Backward. This saying implies that many Africans fear that if Blacks reclaim their original history, they will abandon their new-found interest in Africa, and Africa will continue to flounder. Perhaps so, and what the ramifications will be I don't know, but Africans are not helping themselves by denying the obvious. And it just makes them more unattractive as partners.
Then again, it might just be a matter of continental Africans not wanting Black expatriots around the world to have a reason to feel like they're better than continental Africans. So far that's not working, the entire world, including Blacks, has a negative opinion of Africans, they just have too many fuch-ups in their portfolio.
The big question for expatriots, like those lurking here: is should they say anything? Are Africans helped more by condescending lies and acceptance of their folly, or by brutally telling them the truth?
It's too big a place for outsiders to have much of a positive impact, since they naturally gravitate to the negative anyway - sorry, it's just the truth as I see it. So you keep quiet, contribute to a hunger charity, and send money to dig a well if you want to, and let it go at that.
(Imagine an outsider trying to tell the Somali that they are wrong. The Americans tried, and got shot for their trouble.)
Which is fine, I have no problem with that: but when I'm here trying to give Black people back their history, and these dumb-assed Africans come along with their asine nonsense, well then, the line has been crossed - the Brutal truth will descend upon them.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: what did your ancestors build in Africa? I mean, before they were kidnapped
Who said that they were kidnapped?
The fact is that I don't know when and how my ancestors left Africa.
Your question suggests that you still don't understand the world-wide scope of the Black man. I will prepare a graphic that might help you.
There are like 95% of possibilities they were kidnapped, the French were the biggest kidnappers ever, and they used to sell to the British, Americans, etc, West Africa was their "hunting area"
So, your ancestors came from West Africa. What did they built there? Which were their capital cities? They royal palaces, buildings, temples/mosques etc?
You stupid fuching ass-hole, please pay attention.
ASIAN BLACKS.
India.
Mani of Thailand.
Andaman Islands
Negritos - From Andaman's to Malay Peninsula to Philipines
Papua New Guinea
Australia
Tasmania
MORE.
Mike, of the above, compared to Africa, only India has the trappings of so called "civilization" Tha Mani for instance are a forest population of 300 hunter gathers.
Now, you live in America. Why would you be related to any of these these far off groups?
You're African buddy
You only get into world blacks as a way to deny your Africaness.
Yet Clyde iWinters s a proud Mande but he also is a scholar of world blacks
Take a DNA test, get over your white supremacy induced shame of being Africa, look for the positives and move on. Clyde has proved it can be done
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^The African refrain "Claiming Europe is self hatred" is very interesting. Europe and Europeans (in general) are advanced: Africa and Africans (in general) are Backward. This saying implies that many Africans fear that if Blacks reclaim their original history, they will abandon their new-found interest in Africa, and Africa will continue to flounder. Perhaps so, and what the ramifications will be I don't know, but Africans are not helping themselves by denying the obvious. And it just makes them more unattractive as partners.
Then again, it might just be a matter of continental Africans not wanting Black expatriots around the world to have a reason to feel like they're better than continental Africans. So far that's not working, the entire world, including Blacks, has a negative opinion of Africans, they just have too many fuch-ups in their portfolio.
The big question for expatriots, like those lurking here: is should they say anything? Are Africans helped more by condescending lies and acceptance of their folly, or by brutally telling them the truth?
It's too big a place for outsiders to have much of a positive impact, since they naturally gravitate to the negative anyway - sorry, it's just the truth as I see it. So you keep quiet, contribute to a hunger charity, and send money to dig a well if you want to, and let it go at that.
(Imagine an outsider trying to tell the Somali that they are wrong. The Americans tried, and got shot for their trouble.)
Which is fine, I have no problem with that: but when I'm here trying to give Black people back their history, and these dumb-assed Africans come along with their asine nonsense, well then, the line has been crossed - the Brutal truth will descend upon them.
Mike, you have presented no proof that you persoanlly are not African.
Many on this site show the civilizations of Africans within Africa, from Egypt and Nubia, to the great wall of Zimbabwe, Axum, Punt, West African Empires, many including Ashanti and the Empire of Ghana.
The indigenous Oceania people can't compare architecturally or technologically (if this is the yardstick of judging people)
And we also have to look at the value system. For instance the Mesoamerican civilizations had a lot of impressive Temples but they also large scale human sacrifice. So we can't judge every culture soley based on the architecture and monuments they produced
The whole system of exploitation of indigenous people comes out of a notion that one people is "civilized" and the other is "savage" or "primitive" And so these "civilized" people with the big stone architecture and more advanced technology come in and treat the so called uncivilized people, who have not made these "advances" and they treat them in a savage way.
So accomplishemnts in technology to produce "civilization" don't always result in "civilized" behavior. And the Egyptians for instance, did not advance ethnically, nor people in modern times to refrain from invading other lands
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Go away lioness, this does not involve you.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Ok Mike, go back to battling the Africans, I said my piece
The problem is your battling yourself
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^The African refrain "Claiming Europe is self hatred" is very interesting. Europe and Europeans (in general) are advanced: Africa and Africans (in general) are Backward. This saying implies that many Africans fear that if Blacks reclaim their original history, they will abandon their new-found interest in Africa, and Africa will continue to flounder. Perhaps so, and what the ramifications will be I don't know, but Africans are not helping themselves by denying the obvious. And it just makes them more unattractive as partners.
Then again, it might just be a matter of continental Africans not wanting Black expatriots around the world to have a reason to feel like they're better than continental Africans. So far that's not working, the entire world, including Blacks, has a negative opinion of Africans, they just have too many fuch-ups in their portfolio.
The big question for expatriots, like those lurking here: is should they say anything? Are Africans helped more by condescending lies and acceptance of their folly, or by brutally telling them the truth?
It's too big a place for outsiders to have much of a positive impact, since they naturally gravitate to the negative anyway - sorry, it's just the truth as I see it. So you keep quiet, contribute to a hunger charity, and send money to dig a well if you want to, and let it go at that.
(Imagine an outsider trying to tell the Somali that they are wrong. The Americans tried, and got shot for their trouble.)
Which is fine, I have no problem with that: but when I'm here trying to give Black people back their history, and these dumb-assed Africans come along with their asine nonsense, well then, the line has been crossed - the Brutal truth will descend upon them.
Mike, you have presented no proof that you persoanlly are not African.
Many on this site show the civilizations of Africans within Africa, from Egypt and Nubia, to the great wall of Zimbabwe, Axum, Punt, West African Empires, many including Ashanti and the Empire of Ghana.
The indigenous Oceania people can't compare architecturally or technologically (if this is the yardstick of judging people)
And we also have to look at the value system. For instance the Mesoamerican civilizations had a lot of impressive Temples but they also large scale human sacrifice. So we can't judge every culture soley based on the architecture and monuments they produced
The whole system of exploitation of indigenous people comes out of a notion that one people is "civilized" and the other is "savage" or "primitive" And so these "civilized" people with the big stone architecture and more advanced technology come in and treat the so called uncivilized people, who have not made these "advances" and they treat them in a savage way.
So accomplishemnts in technology to produce "civilization" don't always result in "civilized" behavior. And the Egyptians for instance, did not advance ethnically, nor people in modern times to refrain from invading other lands
......
Haney is that really you speaking or one of the alter egos?
Kudos... It is a most interesting observation.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: As there were no Asian kingdoms in Europe, there were no African kingdoms in Europe, apart from the Moors in southern Italy and Spain. Europe is not the center of the world, as your biased American education teached you.
Start studying African kingdoms, because you have a severe lack of information about everything African/Black.
Yes, you are correct, there was none of this in Europe.
quote:
...
Muurish Kings of Congo
Tutsi emperor “Charles” Rudahigwa Mutara III
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Muur Kings of Congo
Grand and majestic people:
Belgian colonial monarch king Baudouin (center) with the King Kigeli V of Rwanda (right)
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
How many dogs does it take to hunt a lion?
949 "Charles" Rudahigwa Mutara III of Rwanda with Belgian missionaries... (Jesuits)
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Rwanda, Uganda, Congo, inland Tanzania, Angola, and Cameroons, southern Sudan and southern Ethiopia were all one kingdom known as Kitara.
Kitara broke up in the 16th century and became Rwandans, Bagandans, Angolans, etc...
Posted by jantavanta (Member # 20328) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ this book has an no author and it's not available on Amazon where people can review it. It's website sales only I suspect the info is ripped off from Mike's site.
The Author's pen name is "Supreme Understanding". I have the books from Amazon. The Author is of Bangledishi origin to the USA but identifies with his African roots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Understanding Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
quote:Originally posted by jantavanta:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ this book has an no author and it's not available on Amazon where people can review it. It's website sales only I suspect the info is ripped off from Mike's site.
The Author's pen name is "Supreme Understanding". I have the books from Amazon. The Author is of Bangledishi origin to the USA but identifies with his African roots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Understanding
Indians minds are being free.
Always stated that Indians are Black and in a whole beef with peoples who think that Indians are "brown" and that I should look at them as such.
F that....Indians are a part of the Black tribes and they are linked with other Blacks like Africans, Fijians, Aboringes etc. The label unites all black people with the Earth that ALL mankind was formed from.
Free thinking aint easy...Many people get blown away for trying to free themselves from the matrix and free others also. Some die, End up in mental facilties, or just get hooked on street drugs. The system treats people like animals, and when the animal shows the system it can talk AND think...It gets put down.
To change this it begins with UNITY among the originals...Meaning Black peoples from all corners of the globe and this is why what Mike says about Africans disgusts me. Africans are the closets to the most high, as people on earth will get..So all the Diasporas(Fijians, Indians, North and South American Blacks, Australian Abroignes, Melanesians, Polynesians, Some Filipinos etc) need to recognize there true heritage and bring it out. The more people wake up from there drug induced stupor, then we can see real action and changes in the neighbourhoods that Blacks dominate. Too much times we see blacks killing blacks and they don't realize they are doing the work of the elites and those who want to have blacks drugged out like how they have MANY NAtive Americans in Canada and the usa.
Saw a Native American yesterday DRUNK OUT OF HIS MIND and it was only 3pm in the afternoon...He could not say 2 words properly and was sluring everything... He could stand up right, but you could see that the alchol just broke him and the extermination of Native Canadains identity just got to him. He wanted to use the computer, but was just banging on it his hand was just drapped across it as if he never saw a computer before.
When I saw this I don't discriminate, so I tried to help him and was able to make out that he was wanting to look up things on the Ojibwe language. So I helped him as best as I could and tried to tell him that this country is still his and its stolen land and the leaders should bend over backwards to help them rise up.
I posted this personal story to show the forum, It aint only Blacks that need help, But being the closest to mother earth and the Creator, Blacks MUST HELP OTHERS ALSO WAKE UP FROM THERE EURO ENDUCED COMA. Really the burden is heavy, but we are known to do heavy lifting...So if we are going to wake up brothers and sisters...Get them cousins awake also. Natives deserve that right and Blacks gotta know that this fight aint only about them, but the people affected by the status quo also
They can't kill everyone, so if more and more people rise to there real level then its on. Knowledge is key to opening the minds of young black youth to the understanding that drugs, drug dealing, is a tool used to supress there real potential to awaken to a higher sense of self. Newton founded the Black Panthers to fight against the destruction of black communities by these elite funded gangs who take life at there whim not realizing as high as you go, you will find white faces behind it not black.
Blacks in all these ghettos must awake to the understanding that is to fight as one, to live as one, Is to put GREAT FEAR in the matrix. Stop hurting your communities, stop killing your people stop the quick money schemes and Know if you pool your resources together, that not even the matrix can stop the army that will grow.
The best thing is, is that there are whites ready for the cause as well.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
Mike has a mental problem, nobody would have spent so many days distorcing history and building that website, only a pathological liar, self hating, inferior dude, would do it.
Mike, it was better for everyone if you were born white
You would be a normal dude, and not a schizophrenic.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
One of the most magnificent cities in West Africa
Kumasi, Ghana
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
Ghana gives citizenship to any member of the "involuntary diaspora" (they accept dual citizenship)
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Mike has a mental problem, nobody would have spent so many days distorcing history and building that website, only a pathological liar, self hating, inferior dude, would do it.
Mike, it was better for everyone if you were born white
You would be a normal dude, and not a schizophrenic.
I wouldn't paint all schizophrenics as people who attack others or have self hate issues.
The FACT IS that people who suffer from things like this have a chemical imbalance in there brains called too much dopamine.
I have seen MANY people with schizoid, Bi Polar etc who have lived and went on to have successful lives and contribute more to society, then many socalled stable people. To call people with mental illness crazy is beyond shameful and puts you in the same camp as Mike who we know how he labels Africans. Chemical imbalances affect many people...depression, stress are ALL parts of chemical imbalances that affect a huge amount of people and some people get it worse because of the dopamine pumping in their brains in excess.
If you want Mike to stop attacking Africans, then you can't in return attack someone you think is lesser then.
Peace
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
I don't think Mike is lesser than anyone.
Total ignorance about the Black continent is popular among whites and black Americans, it's something every average non African have.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^KING, I swear, you're just as dumb as a doorknob. Now with all of your crying "Cumbyya" simple-mindedness, you have that African idiot believing that others agree that there is no Black history other than African history.
BTW - You cannot force other people to racially identify as YOU wish, it is THEIR decision.
India (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) is a true pluralistic society of Blacks, Albinos, and their mulattoes. Who are you to tell them or anybody else how they should self-identify?
BTW2 - What about the Mulattoes who make up the Arab countries - how should they self-identify?
BTW3 - What about the Mulattoes who make up the Latin American countries - how should they self-identify?
(BTW4 - Some Mulattoes, as in the Arab Countries, are quite hostile to Blacks). Telling them to self-identify as Black would probably not go over well).
See KING, it's best to just shut-the-fuch-up when you don't know what you're talking about!
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike you are likely not an Austrailian or Andaman Islander and under what circumstances would you wind up being in America and not know who you are.
You are likely of recent African descent and don't know who you are because Africans in the time of trans atlantic slave trade were prohibited from practicing their culture.
So your basis for criticizing Africans is coming from an idea that you are better than Africans living in Africa today because you are an Americanized African and this is a very common idea amoung African Americans. It's a feeling of shame, indoctrination
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
In America people who walk down the street with their shirts off are considered crude. You are not supposed to enter a store with your shirt off. It's because of the climate that these notions develop (in other cases relgious views -discomfort with the human body)
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Lioness stop, you have no clue as to my background. But even out of your degenerate mouth can come SOME truth.
I am quite comfortable with myself as a Black man: but the world is full of Black people and Mulattoes, who are ashamed of their Blackness because the Albino people told them that they were less than - and pointed to Africa and Africans as proof of that. Making Blacks ashamed is something that Africans have become very good at, note the stupidity exhibited by those on this forum.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Lioness stop, you have no clue as to my background.
Are you sure you are not of recent African descent?
Isn't it possible?
Why bash Africans is you are not sure if you are not a recent descent African?
And even if you found out you're African you can still bash Africans but it would come from a "we are messed up " perspective, keyword "we"
Could it be you're a recent descent African and you hve been brought up so Americanized that your root culture seems completely alien to you? And that you have been taught to see Africa as inferior?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: One of the most magnificent cities in West Africa
Kumasi, Ghana
Please note:
As I have said with lamin:
Are these people really just stupid Africans?
Or are they Albinos mocking Africans?
Even with my poor opinion of Africans, I find it hard to believe that a real African would be so stupid as to hold up "Thatch Roofed" houses as evidence of advanced society.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
Lioness, I answered you only because you happened to touch on some points that I wanted to expand upon. You should not take that as a sign that you are intelligent enough to have a conversation with.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
I don't agree with some of Clyde Winter's theories but he's done it. He writes extensively about Blacks of the world yet at the same time embraces his Africaness
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: evidence of advanced society.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
ASIAN BLACKS.
Mani of Thailand.
Andaman Islands
Negritos - From Andaman's to Malay Peninsula to Philipines
Papua New Guinea
Australia
Tasmania
MORE.
^^^ Mike none of these people are from "advanced" societies. They are humble people living in tune with nature. The advanced people drop bombs and pollute the environment
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^KING, I swear, you're just as dumb as a doorknob. Now with all of your crying "Cumbyya" simple-mindedness, you have that African idiot believing that others agree that there is no Black history other than African history.
BTW - You cannot force other people to racially identify as YOU wish, it is THEIR decision.
India (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) is a true pluralistic society of Blacks, Albinos, and their mulattoes. Who are you to tell them or anybody else how they should self-identify?
BTW2 - What about the Mulattoes who make up the Arab countries - how should they self-identify?
BTW3 - What about the Mulattoes who make up the Latin American countries - how should they self-identify?
(BTW4 - Some Mulattoes, as in the Arab Countries, are quite hostile to Blacks). Telling them to self-identify as Black would probably not go over well).
See KING, it's best to just shut-the-fuch-up when you don't know what you're talking about!
Naw mike this aint about cumbya "can everyone get along".
This is about breaking the back of the matrix that has imprisoned the minds of MANY Blacks, Natives etc.
The reality is that none can do this alone, If there is waves of resistance by people of ALL BACKGROUNDS, then the system can be overturned.
The problem is Mike that you play right into the hands of the system when you infight with your African brothers and sisters .
You really think that by attacking Africans consistently, that that will make them throw off the shackles?? NO...It will only cause more division among Africans and the diaspora...Look at what Ghana is doing in giving membership to All disaporans...That's a start... The lesser then mentality is plaguing peoples minds, why you think that Natives in Winnipeg are killing there people the same way that AA's are killing each other in the usa...Colonized MINDS...Only education, love and compassion can change this and break the shackles.
The chains were broken and put on the minds...Selling drugs to your own not caring that you are destroying where you live...Ghettos in USA home to liquor stores so the people can drink away there problems AND life is exactly what Canada did to the Native Americans now they are a broken people and have only Blacks seem to care enough to want to help them heal.
When you hit rock bottom, only one way to go and that is up.
So as You go up drag as many people you can with you so you are not alone when you reach the peak and you can share in the overcoming of struggles forced on you by the elites.
Its simple Mike, Embrace all Africa, learn the history, culture, faith people, and then you will be able to easier understand the cultures you are most interested in and find out how they started, when they formed and when they emigrated.
Win Win basically..You have an audience Mike, Teach them right and your fruits will ripen proper, keep teaching them wrong and it will all ROT...
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^KING - I sure hope that you don't have children, for surely you would teach them the same nonsense:
i.e. Whatever you do is okay, I will love you anyway.
Children raised that way invariably turn out to be sh1t.
What you say is fine for a preacher in Church, but in the real world, to real people, it sounds simple-minded at best, and stupid at the other end.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: One of the most magnificent cities in West Africa
Kumasi, Ghana
Please note:
As I have said with lamin:
Are these people really just stupid Africans?
Or are they Albinos mocking Africans?
Even with my poor opinion of Africans, I find it hard to believe that a real African would be so stupid as to hold up "Thatch Roofed" houses as evidence of advanced society.
How do "Blacks" build their homes/palaces/cities?
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Damn you're stupid.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Damn you're stupid.
Show me a traditional Black city. If there is one... or there is none? Maybe there is nothing to see.
Posted by jantavanta (Member # 20328) on :
quote:Originally posted by KING:
quote:Originally posted by jantavanta: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] ^^^ this book has an no author and it's not available on Amazon where people can review it. It's website sales only I suspect the info is ripped off from Mike's site.
.........
............ Free thinking aint easy...Many people get blown away for trying to free themselves from the matrix and free others also. Some die, End up in mental facilties, or just get hooked on street drugs. The system treats people like animals, and when the animal shows the system it can talk AND think...It gets put down.........
Saw a Native American yesterday DRUNK OUT OF HIS MIND and it was only 3pm in the afternoon...He could not say 2 words properly and was sluring everything... He could stand up right, but you could see that the alchol just broke him and the extermination of Native Canadains identity just got to him. He wanted to use the computer, but was just banging on it his hand was just drapped across it as if he never saw a computer before.
When I saw this I don't discriminate, so I tried to help him and was able to make out that he was wanting to look up things on the Ojibwe language. So I helped him as best as I could and tried to tell him that this country is still his and its stolen land and the leaders should bend over backwards to help them rise up.
I posted this personal story to show the forum, It aint only Blacks that need help, But being the closest to mother earth and the Creator, Blacks MUST HELP OTHERS ALSO WAKE UP FROM THERE EURO ENDUCED COMA. Really the burden is heavy, but we are known to do heavy lifting...So if we are going to wake up brothers and sisters...Get them cousins awake also. Natives deserve that right and Blacks gotta know that this fight aint only about them, but the people affected by the status quo also
The best thing is, is that there are whites ready for the cause as well.
The Euro-Afrikaners made beer for Black South Africans cheaper than water, for the same purpose....
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^KING - I sure hope that you don't have children, for surely you would teach them the same nonsense:
i.e. Whatever you do is okay, I will love you anyway.
Children raised that way invariably turn out to be sh1t.
What you say is fine for a preacher in Church, but in the real world, to real people, it sounds simple-minded at best, and stupid at the other end.
Where do you get that from mike???
It takes dedication and discipline. You gotta teach Love and the RIGHT WAY.
A little raised hand, scares the evil out of the one being disciplined.
BUT
To always be heavy handed, loses it's affect after awhile like anything else.
Theres a fine balance you need to walk.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: One of the most magnificent cities in West Africa
Kumasi, Ghana
Please note:
As I have said with lamin:
Are these people really just stupid Africans?
Or are they Albinos mocking Africans?
Even with my poor opinion of Africans, I find it hard to believe that a real African would be so stupid as to hold up "Thatch Roofed" houses as evidence of advanced society.
How do "Blacks" build their homes/palaces/cities?
Fez Morocco, built by the Muurs from Sene-Gambia and Nigeria.
Fasilides Castle in Gondar Ethiopia, built by Muurs of Ethiopia, Punt and Mocambique...
Palaces of Kilwa, Tanzania built by the Muurs of Mombassa and Zanjibar - the Swahili Muurs
There are even Muur... but that Ashanti biznis is a joke bro. Wise up... Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
City of Kilwa 1572
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
The question was rethoric , and it was for that self hating Black called Mike.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
however the most popular architecture in Africa is earthern (there is earthern, wooden and stone architecture), still standing and functional stone structures can be found only in Eastern African muslim and christian towns and cities.
And let Moroccans alone, they (while in their country), don't even consider themselves African.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: The question was rethoric , and it was for that self hating Black called Mike.
quote: And let Moroccans alone, they (while in their country), don't even consider themselves African.
Please add 1+1:
Other Africans do not want to be associated with Africa - for what reason???
Africans like YOU!!!
Is it a color thing?
No, the Moroccan King is Negroid.
Is it because Africans to the south have a tendency to stupidity?
Ding, Ding, Ding.
BTW - what is it about you people that makes you think that kind of rhetoric (repeating a question, a stupid one at that) is clever or forceful?
I recently had conversations with West Africans who thought that they were Hebrews, and they used the same technique. Here is a heads up for you: it simply confirms that you are simple-minded idiots.
I wonder if all of this has to do with fawning tourists who come by and make a fuss about you, and then go away. They make you feel smart and important, don't they?
Get wise, they're playing you.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: The question was rethoric , and it was for that self hating Black called Mike.
quote: And let Moroccans alone, they (while in their country), don't even consider themselves African.
Please add 1+1:
Other Africans do not want to be associated with Africa - for what reason???
Africans like YOU!!!
Is it a color thing?
No, the Moroccan King is Negroid.
Is it because Africans to the south have a tendency to stupidity?
Ding, Ding, Ding.
BTW - what is it about you people that makes you think that kind of rhetoric (repeating a question, a stupid one at that) is clever or forceful?
I recently had conversations with West Africans who thought that they were Hebrews, and they used the same technique. Here is a heads up for you: it simply confirms that you are simple-minded idiots.
I wonder if all of this has to do with fawning tourists who come by and make a fuss about you, and then go away. They make you feel smart and important, don't they?
Get wise, they're playing you.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: The question was rethoric , and it was for that self hating Black called Mike.
quote: And let Moroccans alone, they (while in their country), don't even consider themselves African.
Please add 1+1:
Other Africans do not want to be associated with Africa - for what reason???
Africans like YOU!!!
Is it a color thing?
No, the Moroccan King is Negroid.
Is it because Africans to the south have a tendency to stupidity?
Ding, Ding, Ding.
BTW - what is it about you people that makes you think that kind of rhetoric (repeating a question, a stupid one at that) is clever or forceful?
I recently had conversations with West Africans who thought that they were Hebrews, and they used the same technique. Here is a heads up for you: it simply confirms that you are simple-minded idiots.
I wonder if all of this has to do with fawning tourists who come by and make a fuss about you, and then go away. They make you feel smart and important, don't they?
Get wise, they're playing you.
"Negroid" is something only White Americans have as a concept, them and slave minded Blacks like you, you can't go in the Black continent and start looking for "Negroids", there are any because we don't even have a term for "Black". I can see your chains, you are a great cotton picker, you have even a website to advertise the plantation of lies and ignorance.
Afro Americans lived in Europe... and then sailed to America... chased by the "albinos", then then sailed to America too... and enslaved our brave "Black" knights of Europe, I'm still laughing at your stupidity and c00nery, you make people become racist, because it's so easy to take advantage of a mind like yours, you drool at everything European and non-Black, and you're so coward, you don't have the force to question what your American master teached you.
Boondocks is nothing compared to the real mental decay there is among Afro Americans like you. The reality is worse than fiction.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
who built this massive cathedral in Milian? "Black Europeans"?
who built this massive tower in Nanchang? "Black Chinese"?
who built this massive mosque in Samarkand? "Black Uzbeki"?
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
if the reply is yes, yes and yes, then, you're intended to remain a mental slave for yet a while
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: who built this massive cathedral in Milian? "Black Europeans"?
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: if the reply is yes, yes and yes, then, you're intended to remain a mental slave for yet a while
So then, your point is that I should stop aspiring to equate myself with the grand accomplishments of Europe (and White people):
And instead, convince myself like you did, that this is great accomplishment - at least for Black people!
And this too.
Actually, as I recall, a Turk was contracted to build this:
But Africans accepted it, so it's theirs.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Come-on African boy, did I get it right or not? I mean, even an African ass like you, must know what his words mean, so answer me!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Afro Americans lived in Europe... and then sailed to America... chased by the "albinos", then then sailed to America too... and enslaved our brave "Black" knights of Europe, I'm still laughing at your stupidity and c00nery, you make people become racist, because it's so easy to take advantage of a mind like yours, you drool at everything European and non-Black, and you're so coward, you don't have the force to question what your American master teached you.
Boondocks is nothing compared to the real mental decay there is among Afro Americans like you. The reality is worse than fiction.
He,he,he,he:
Lioness, did you notice how the Negro boy misstated my position so that his position wouldn't seem so stupid?
He has obviously learned a lot from you, proof that when lying Monkeys get together, Monkey see - Monkey do.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: who built this massive cathedral in Milian? "Black Europeans"?
Well African Boy, it seems that you can't explain what your words mean:
So I will ask you a simpler question"
WHO BUILT THE CATHEDRAL MILANO DUOMO - AND HOW DO YOU KNOW???
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: who built this massive cathedral in Milian? "Black Europeans"?
Well African Boy, it seems that you can't explain what your words mean:
So I will ask you a simpler question"
WHO BUILT THE CATHEDRAL MILANO DUOMO - AND HOW DO YOU KNOW???
The Cathedral was begun in 1388 and completed in 1965:
Who says that this man didn't work on it?
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
How is that Italian architect a "negroid", I don't see "negroe" features on him.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: How is that Italian architect a "negroid", I don't see "negroe" features on him.
Well, well, look who showed up. And Why?
Well of course, to say something else that is truly stupid.
Little Negro boy, please post a picture of a typical Negro so that I will know.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
You are NOT an European pushed to emigrate to America do to an invasion of "albinos"
You are a slave descendant, a descendant of African slaves, I don't even need to see your face to say that (your self hate is common among descendant of African slaves living in America)
You have a great inferiority complex
This is how non-Blacks build their greatness
Indians
Malaysians
and I could go on ... tell me they were all built by Afro Americans, then chased by "albinos" etc etc
You are a descendant of African slaves
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: How is that Italian architect a "negroid", I don't see "negroe" features on him.
Well, well, look who showed up. And Why?
Well of course, to say something else that is truly stupid.
Little Negro boy, please post a picture of a typical Negro so that I will know.
car packed with "typical negroes"
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: One of the most magnificent cities in West Africa
Kumasi, Ghana
Please note:
As I have said with lamin:
Are these people really just stupid Africans?
Or are they Albinos mocking Africans?
Even with my poor opinion of Africans, I find it hard to believe that a real African would be so stupid as to hold up "Thatch Roofed" houses as evidence of advanced society.
Can I read these ass-holes or not!
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
People will never respect you were you live, because you look African
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
is this why you try to erase every "Black" in you, right? Because you think you'll be finally treated like a white American.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
TheAfricaTNSY
along with Mike there is also Marc Washington who also posts here and also smokes the same spliff Mike does
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: is this why you try to erase every "Black" in you, right? Because you think you'll be finally treated like a white American.
You have already outed yourself as a Albino mole like lioness, or an African so stupid that he/she seems like an Albino mole like lioness. In either case, there is no further need for conversation. There are many historically ignorant people who lurk in these forums who are unsure as to what to believe. My interest was in demonstrating your stupidity: and so your lack of knowledge and credibility: as it always is with your type, not in convincing you of anything.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^ don't trust him, he's European
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
There is currently no institutional website created from an African country (just like the .edu websites in USA) to collect the history of the Africa
But I understand who's the main target of these attacks, made of racism disguised as truth, and are not the Africans.
BET, World Star Hip Hop, and Egypt as the only African kingdom with value. We know who's behind this, this enemy looks invincible and has a thousand tricks up its sleeve.
But if it is being aggressive, it only means it's loosing the grip.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Ass - Who is stopping Africans from researching and writing their history?
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Ass - Who is stopping Africans from researching and writing their history?
Our countries don't care, because Africans learn history in school, there would be no gain in creating a dedicateed website.
It would be useless for the Africans but useful for Afro Americans
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Ass - Who is stopping Africans from researching and writing their history?
Our countries don't care, because Africans learn history in school, there would be no gain in creating a dedicateed website.
It would be useless for the Africans but useful for Afro Americans
That's wonderful!
So all we have to do is order some African High School History Books and we will all be up-to-date on African history - Great!
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: Our countries don't care, because Africans learn history in school, there would be no gain in creating a dedicateed website.
It would be useless for the Africans but useful for Afro Americans
As usual, you are totally clueless on the subject!
Question:
Why don't Nigerian students want to study Nigerian History?
Background and purpose of study
During the early days of secondary grammar-school education in Nigeria, a substantial number (in most cases all) of students used to take History in their terminal examinations. This was largely because the subjects in the secondary grammar-school curriculum were few, so that students had little or no option in the selection of subjects for their School Certificate Examination. Further, it did not really matter in those early years which subjects students offered because there was no serious competition in the job market as we have in the country today. However, as the curriculum was widened and more subjects examined at the School Certificate Examination, the proportion of students taking History gradually dropped. Subsequently, employers began to discriminate, culminating in the situation that the Nigerian historian finds himself today: the high probability of unemployment in a country struggling to develop its scientific and technological potentialities. The result is that History, as a school subject, has become apparently unpopular in the Nigerian society. The purpose of this study was to examine the relative position of History among a selected number of secondary grammar school subjects and to find out the reasons why Nigerian secondary grammar-school students placed History in particular positions. In effect, the study aimed at finding out the extent to which History was or still is, in danger of extinction from the secondary grammar-school curriculum and the role of the society itself in aggravating that 'danger’.
Apparently learning about "Brass key hook with four-arm cross finial" aren't as universally interesting as you thought.
I'm not supposed to school you for every bullshit you say.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Mike don't say Africans are stupid you're one of us.
Because you have been Americanized doesn't change this
These white people have got you dumping on your own kind, stop it
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^A sensible comment so I will answer.
Whose interest is served by this ignorant boys drivel?
As I stated earlier, I simply wanted to demonstrate that he/she is an ignoramus not worth paying attention to.
Africa and Africans have a long row to hoe, idiots like this one, delusionaly claiming greatness where there was none, is satisfying only to those worthless Africans wishing to stay as they are.
Those wishing to move forward know that Sub-Sahara Africa's greatness must be in it's future, because it certainly wasn't in it's past.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Mike
Africa had greatness in the past as well. Maybe you don't get on well with the site's Africans but that does not detract from the true history. And that is what we are dealing with here.
The Muurs of Africa were and still remain a great people.
I beg to disagree with you.
Lion!
Nairobi Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Mike
Here is subsaharan Africa. It was the centre of civilization for millenia, yet even now.
Out of Africa something new always comes forth..
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^If ignoramuses like that boy actually did some research, and found that indeed Sub-Sahara had great accomplishments that were unknown to modern historians - then who would be happier than me?
And rest assured, sincere apologies would be forthcoming.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Mike
You must ignore the young minds them with their usual melodramatics and outbursts. They are just dealing with the shock of meeting the unfamiliar knowledge. With time they will learn and improve.
All you can do is teach them eventhough they come to knowledge reluctantly.
And don't expect thanks either. Ours is a thankless job.
The Muurish Council of Elders will give us our rewards.
For now, it is do or die.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
Mike, if you don't know African history, don't imply Africans don't know theirs. Africans know their history, but they don't know the history of their neighbors (there aren't selected stuff that any African must to learn at school, Africa is still not united).
A kid in Northern Nigeria learn about the history of its state, because since Nigeria is a federation, each state minds its own business. Northern Nigeria is mostly Hausa. Their history is written and oral at the same time.
Hausa noble
how Hausas used to build their houses before
their cities are still built with local designs.
This museum is located into an old building from 1300, it carries the Hausa symbol on it
this is a new one (note the Hausa symbol).
There are many Hausa kingdoms, everyone has its own capital and palace
a view of the main entrance of the palace in Katsina
A Nigerian of southern Nigeria can be Yoruba, can be Igbo or other ethnicities, but they are minorities. Nigeria is majority Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa, 30%, 30% and 30%, and then there are minorities.
Yorubas were divided into city states, called "Ile". One of these Iles was muslim and under Hausa control, it was Ilorin. Ilorin was the capital city of the kingdom called "Yoruba", the Hausas called Yoruba that kingdom because it was inhabited of converted Yoruba. Their history is oral and carried on by specialized royal historians.
Yoruba chiefs
Another city state was Ife, "Ile Ife". It's the most famous, thanks to his religious art.
These techniques were then abandoned, they used to build their palaces with rocks and quarz, but then started developing an earthen architecture, and wood carving, just like the rest of West Africa
The ruler of Ile Ife is called Oni, this is the construction of its new palace during 1800. The old palaces, when they knew stone construction, are yet to be escavated. In Africa everything is yet to be escavated. There is still a lot to find.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
the Yoruba religion passed in America do to the transatlantic slave trade, you call it "voodoo". artistic impression of the god called Orunmila
voodoo worshippers can be found in the Caribbeans and South America. I don't know why Yoruba succeeded in injecting so muchtheir culture in the new world.
In Yoruba religion white is the symbol of purity, you must to dress in white during cerimonies
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Tall King Mutara III look very powerful surrounded by those white Europeans
Rwanda King Mutara III surrounded by European Priests
Tall Rwanda King Mutara III meeting Europeans.
According to Ironlion Rwanda, Uganda, Congo, inland Tanzania, Angola, and Cameroons, southern Sudan and southern Ethiopia were all one kingdom known as Kitara.
Kitara broke up in the 16th century and became Rwandans, Bagandans, Angolans, etc...
According to Wikipedia The Empire of Kitara (also known as Bachwezi, Bacwezi, or Chwezi empire) is a strong part of oral tradition in the area of the Great Lakes of Africa, including the modern countries of Uganda, northern Tanzania, eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo, Rwanda and Burundi
In the oral tradition, Kitara was a kingdom which, at the height of its power in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, included much of Uganda, northern Tanzania and eastern Congo (DRC), ruled by a dynasty known as the Bachwezi (or Chwezi) who were the successors of the Batembuzi Dynasty.[1]
According to the story, the Kitara Empire lasted until the 16th century, when it was invaded by Luo people, who came from the present-day South Sudan and established the kingdom of Bunyoro-Kitara
precolonial Uganda is formed by 5 kingdoms and had different forts.
In the biggest one, located in Mugenyi and built by the Kitara Empire, the walls were 12 feet (3.7 m) high and made of earth, just like in the other forts (Mugenyi is thought in the primary school history program).
Inside there were food storage and religious shrines (they had different gods).
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY: .... (Mugenyi is thought in the primary school history program).
...
Ok, this is becoming pathetic. Can you stop please? Take a pause, do some deeper research because what you are demonstrating is very superficial familiarity with serious events.
Can you take a pause now?
Gee Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Something wrong witum.
Posted by Mike111 (Member # 9361) on :
^Lion, you seem to have some sensitivity to this type of creature. Please try to explain them to me, I really want to know.
As you saw, I used all manner of vile language for shock value, to get this person to pause and think about what he was saying and what I was saying. At other times, in the course of arguing with Lamin, Ra, Firewall, typeZeiss, and now this TheAfricaTNSY child, I have even pointed out to them that they had the same position on the issues as the Albino people - That should give pause to any intelligent Black person to reconsider their stance, but it had no effect on these people.
And after all of that, this kid wants to play elementary school "Show-n-tell" on ES. I tell you truly my urge is to slap upside the head, plant a foot up the ass, and simply walk away, they are hopeless. Is there another way?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Indeed, many of them process their thoughts like the Albinos. They might even be albinos.
But there are others who are lurking, reading the exchange and learning.
Keep those others more in mind than those seemingly unconscious Muurs, or maybe albinoids.
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Mike don't say Africans are stupid you're one of us.
Because you have been Americanized doesn't change this
These white people have got you dumping on your own kind, stop it
you are not african
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
ok, show me what you think I should absolutely know for the sake of my mind, I hope it's not about Black Greeks...
Posted by typeZeiss (Member # 18859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Ass - Who is stopping Africans from researching and writing their history?
Our countries don't care, because Africans learn history in school, there would be no gain in creating a dedicateed website.
It would be useless for the Africans but useful for Afro Americans
Why shouldn't Africans know African history? Most of us are linked anyway, so we should know how the various branches of the family tree developed. The only reason we don't know is because of European colonization, that Africans are not being taught African history in its entirety. Some pockets are doing it, like in certain schools in Ghana. I also know they teach it in Kenya. I have many friends from Kenya who know about every kingdom in Africa and their histories and when you ask them why, they say they were taught in school. This is why Kenya is doing so well and have great future, because they understand their place in history. A people who don't know where they come from have no idea where they are traveling toward. They can be told anything by Europeans and they will believe it and this will derail their development.
Posted by TheAfricaTNSY (Member # 21727) on :
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss:
quote:Originally posted by TheAfricaTNSY:
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Ass - Who is stopping Africans from researching and writing their history?
Our countries don't care, because Africans learn history in school, there would be no gain in creating a dedicateed website.
It would be useless for the Africans but useful for Afro Americans
Why shouldn't Africans know African history? Most of us are linked anyway, so we should know how the various branches of the family tree developed. The only reason we don't know is because of European colonization, that Africans are not being taught African history in its entirety. Some pockets are doing it, like in certain schools in Ghana. I also know they teach it in Kenya. I have many friends from Kenya who know about every kingdom in Africa and their histories and when you ask them why, they say they were taught in school. This is why Kenya is doing so well and have great future, because they understand their place in history. A people who don't know where they come from have no idea where they are traveling toward. They can be told anything by Europeans and they will believe it and this will derail their development.
I think major kingdoms should be taught all over Africa.
Maybe this is why Kenyans are producing the first show for kids about only African history, without mixing Romans and whatever into it
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at your stupidity and c00nery, you make people become racist, because it's so easy to take advantage of a mind like yours, you drool at everything European and non-Black, and you're so coward, you don't have the force to question what your American master teached you.
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