In 1300's many Malians sailed to the Americas. Although, most Malians settled in Brazil, Mexico and built the mounds along the Mississippi River, some Malians settled in Florida.
Some of the Malians were Muslims. The best evidence of Muslims in North America were the Jamassee/Yamassee. In the picture below we see many Muurs wearing Turbans and Kufic hats fighting the British.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
.
.
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
"Muur" is a dutch word meaning wall
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: In 1300's many Malians sailed to the Americas. Although, most Malians settled in Brazil, Mexico and built the mounds along the Mississippi River, some Malians settled in Florida.
Some of the Malians were Muslims.
Any Malians who sailed to the Americas in the 1300s are not native Americans, they are foreign colonists. Native Americans go back for thousands of years
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
Clyde why are you lying and trying to steal from the Native Americans? Turbans related to the Islamic moors of North Africa are not Native American and the Moors did not introduce farming to the Native Americans, that is complete foolishness
The Cherokee Turban came to be from the fact that, in the 1600's, a group of Englishmen took a small group of Cherokee chiefs and warriors to England to meet the king. Just before they were to enter the throne room, the Englishmen decided that the Cherokee warriors were not dressed properly to be presented to the king. So, in looking around for something more appropriate to dress the Cherokee in, they found some old linen shirts from the time, and some turbans that were left over from some officials from India. They dressed the Cherokee in this attire to meet the king. They were allowed to keep these items when they were brought back to their village. Since then, other Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee, Seminole, and Chickasaw began wearing this type of head gear for ceremonies and Special functions. Since east of the Mississippi was a vast forest, it was not practical for the feathered war bonnets like the plains tribes had to be worn in this area. The turban was close to the head and light to wear. It also helps keep the head warm in Winter!
_________________
Posted by Child Of The KING (Member # 9422) on :
This is the problem.
Seems That the Persons who infiltrate the people(remember these persons can influence the people easily to turn against each other) Can psychosis(Mental attack) them and make them change against each other.
Truth America was always Red, Black and Yellow, Then Out of mixing Browns came, The Vikings who were White(Some Even think some Vikings were Darker skinned but Majority were White)) were the 1st to come to America from Europe, You Never Heard of them fighting or that there was violence. They Did not seem to of Had a PROBLEM! They Chilled. There was no violence.
The Vikings were Fighting in Europe though. So The Persons were coming and they were probably heated cause of that.
Look at the Pharisees and Saducees how they were heating up people against the Apostles when they were trying to Save the People. Read this
quote:Acts 4:14 The People of the City were Divided some sided with the Jews, Others with the Apostles.
quote: Acts 14:1 In Iconium, Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the synagogue of the Jews. There they spoke so effectively that a Great number of Jews and Greeks Believed
quote:Acts 14:2 But the Jews who refused to Believe stirred up the Other Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the Brothers
quote: Acts 14:19 then some Jews came from antioch and iconium and won the crowd over. They stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city, thinking he was dead.
quote:Acts 14:20 But After the Disicples gathered around him, He Got Up and went back . The Next day he and Barnanbas Left for Derbe
quote:Acts 14:21 They Preached the Gospel in that City, and won a Large number of Disiciples. Then they returned to Lystra, iconium, and antioch
quote: Acts 14:22 strengthening the disicples and encouraging them, to remain true to the Faith.....More to read on the verse.
quote:Acts 14:23 Paul and Barnabas appointed Elders for them in each Church and, with Prayer and Fasting , Commited them to the Lord, in Whom they had Put there Trust
quote:Acts 14:24 After going through Pisdia, they came into Pamphylia
quote: Acts 14:25 and when they had preached in Perga, they went down to Attalia
quote:Acts 14:26 From attalia, they sailed back to antioch, where they had been commited to the grace of God for the work they had now completed
quote: Acts 14: 27 On arriving there, they Gathered the Church together, and reported all that God had done through them, and How he had opened a door of Faith for the Gentiles
quote: Acts 14:28 And they stayed there a Long time with Disicples
[Please, no more Xian proselytism, thank you]
[ 15. May 2015, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "Muur" is a dutch word meaning wall
Muur also an Arabic pronunciation for Moor. But I don't expect you to know this, with that little understanding of yours.
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
Clyde why are you lying and trying to steal from the Native Americans? Turbans related to the Islamic moors of North Africa are not Native American and the Moors did not introduce farming to the Native Americans, that is complete foolishness
The Cherokee Turban came to be from the fact that, in the 1600's, a group of Englishmen took a small group of Cherokee chiefs and warriors to England to meet the king. Just before they were to enter the throne room, the Englishmen decided that the Cherokee warriors were not dressed properly to be presented to the king. So, in looking around for something more appropriate to dress the Cherokee in, they found some old linen shirts from the time, and some turbans that were left over from some officials from India. They dressed the Cherokee in this attire to meet the king. They were allowed to keep these items when they were brought back to their village. Since then, other Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee, Seminole, and Chickasaw began wearing this type of head gear for ceremonies and Special functions. Since east of the Mississippi was a vast forest, it was not practical for the feathered war bonnets like the plains tribes had to be worn in this area. The turban was close to the head and light to wear. It also helps keep the head warm in Winter!
_________________
LOL @ the defense mechanisms.
The Black Trumpeter at Henry VIII's Tournament
This image, an extract from the 60ft-long Westminster Tournament Roll, shows six trumpeters, one of whom is Black and is almost certainly John Blanke. All the trumpeters are wearing yellow and grey, with blue purses at their waists. John Blanke is the only one wearing a brown turban latticed with yellow. He is mounted on a grey horse with a black harness.
Westminster Tournament Roll (1511) By permission of The College of Arms, London
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "Muur" is a dutch word meaning wall
Haney
These be the Muurs. Not negritos, but Muurs. Read on:
quote::
quote:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Negritos share some common physical features with African pygmy populations, including short stature, natural afro-hair texture, and dark skin; however, their origin and the route of their migration to Asia is still a matter of great speculation. They are the most genetically distant human population from Africans at most loci studied thus far (except for MC1R, which codes for dark skin).
They have also been shown to have separated early from Asians, suggesting that they are either surviving descendants of settlers from an early migration out of Africa, or that they are descendants of one of the founder populations of modern humans. ___________________________________ See:
Kashyap VK, Sitalaximi T, Sarkar BN, Trivedi R 2003.
Molecular relatedness of the aboriginal groups of Andaman and Nicobar Islands with similar ethnic populations.
The International Journal of Human Genetics ____________________________________
A number of features would seem to suggest a common origin for the Negritos and African pygmies, especially in the Andamanese Islanders who have been isolated from incoming waves of Asiatic and Indo-Aryan peoples. No other living human population has experienced such long-lasting isolation from contact with other groups [
These features include short stature, very dark skin, woolly hair, scant body hair and occasional steatopygia. The claim that Andamanese pygmoids more closely resemble Africans than Asians in their cranial morphology in a 1973 study added some weight to this theory before genetic studies pointed to a closer relationship with Asians.
Other more recent studies have shown closer craniometric affinities to Egyptians and Europeans than to Sub Saharan populations such as that of African Pygmies. Walter Neves' study of the Lagoa Santa people had the incidental correlation of showing Andamanese as classifying closer to Egyptians and Europeans than any Sub Saharan population.
Multiple studies also show that Negritos from Southeast Asia to New Guinea share a closer cranial affinity with Australo-Melanesians. Further evidence for Asian ancestry is in craniometric markers such as sundadonty, shared by Asian and Negrito populations.
Genetic testing places all the Onge and all but two of the Great Andamanese in the mtDNA Haplogroup M, found in East Africa, East Asia, and South Asia, suggesting that the Negritos are at least partly descended from a migration originating in eastern Africa as much as 60,000 years ago. This migration is hypothesized to have followed a coastal route through India and into Southeast Asia, which is sometimes referred to as the Great Coastal Migration.
Analysis of mtDNA coding sites indicated that these Andamanese fall into a subgroup of M not previously identified in human populations in Africa and Asia. These findings suggest an early split from the population of African migrants whose descendants would eventually populate the entire habitable world. Haplogroup C and haplogroup D is believed to represent Y-DNA in the migration _________________________________________
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: In 1300's many Malians sailed to the Americas. Although, most Malians settled in Brazil, Mexico and built the mounds along the Mississippi River, some Malians settled in Florida.
Some of the Malians were Muslims. The best evidence of Muslims in North America were the Jamassee/Yamassee. In the picture below we see many Muurs wearing Turbans and Kufic hats fighting the British.
.
Another great topic by Dr. Clyde Winters. thanks for keeping this place interesting still.
The Florida Muurs – Black Indians of the State of Florida
The young, powerful man in dark brown lacquered pearwood, the associated border on a tray tortoiseshell presents casual and supple Colombian Emerald level, is not a person in Africa, but an Indian.
Although facial features and skin color are those of a black African, but the body tattoos ethnological exactly shown have him as well as a Native Florida from, as well as the precious necklaces and bracelets, breast ornaments, the feather crown, the loincloth and footwear, in accordance with an engraving Dinglinger workshop were created...
At the behest of Elector August should this “natural wonders” in “Chur-Princely bull and tribal, to eternal Gedächtnüß” be preserved. Balthasar Permoser created for since 1723 in the development conceived Treasury Museum really original presentation of all possible means, the sculpture of a “Moor”.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "Muur" is a dutch word meaning wall
Muur also an Arabic pronunciation for Moor. But I don't expect you to know this, with that little understanding of yours.
show me any academic text the refers to the Moors as "Muurs"
show me any text where the pronunciation of a word replaces it's proper spelling
show me any text which describes the Arab pronunciation of the word "Moor" as "muur"
The word Muur comes from Muuritania, not Mauritania.
It is only the Europeans who spell it as Mauritania, or Moors, or Maur-(ice), or Muir, or Mohrs, etc.
Ask your people to make up their mind on the spelling of Muurs of Muuritania. It is not really our problem.
quote: Moor (n.) Medieval Latin Morus, Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), Greek Mauros, mauros "black" (but this adjective only appears in late Greek and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse).
Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;" later used indiscriminately of black Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India.
Muur relates to the word Mer (sea) because they were the first and only sea farers until the European pirates destroyed their entreprises.
Muur relates to the pilot or the navigator of a ship (to Moor a ship).
Muur relates to a navigator, a seeker, a faithful and a devotee.
That is why they were/are known as the Noble Muurs.
Muris of Senegal:
^^ The Mouride/Muri brotherhood (yoonu murit in Wolof, الطريقة المريدية, Aṭ-Ṭarīqat al-Murīdiyya or simply مريدية, Murīdiyya in Arabic) is a large Islamic Sufi order most prominent in Senegal and the Gambia, with headquarters in the holy city of Touba, Senegal. The followers are called Mourides, from the Arabic word murīd (literally "one who desires"), a term used generally in Sufism to designate a disciple of a spiritual guide.
The Mouride make up around 40 percent of the total population in Senegal. Their influence over everyday life can be seen throughout Senegal.
The Great Black Kings of Hawaii: President Obama proclaims King Kamehameha Day
HONOLULU — President Barack Obama is urging the nation to celebrate Kamehameha (kah-MAY-hah-may-hah) Day along with Hawaii.
Obama who is the first black as well as the first Hawaii-born president of the United States signed a statement Thursday proclaiming June 11, 2010, Kamehameha Day in honor of “King Kamehameha the Great,” the great black King of the Black Hawaiians before its conquest by American sponsored aggression.
King Kamehameha unified the Hawaiian Islands under one government. See his picture posted. View the video the Black Kings and Queens of Hawaii, posted on Rasta Livewire.
MUURZ to come... Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
The Black Trumpeter at Henry VIII's Tournament
This image, an extract from the 60ft-long Westminster Tournament Roll, shows six trumpeters, one of whom is Black and is almost certainly John Blanke. All the trumpeters are wearing yellow and grey, with blue purses at their waists. John Blanke is the only one wearing a brown turban latticed with yellow. He is mounted on a grey horse with a black harness.
Westminster Tournament Roll (1511) By permission of The College of Arms, London
stop spamming Clyde's thread, this is about Native Americans not Europeans, try to focus. So you know anything about Sequoyah? No zero, go look it up instead of wasting bandwidth
John Blanke ived in 16th century England, so what I have already put up John Blanke in other threads as well as at least 4 books on black in Europe, so stop wasting everybody's time by going off topic.
Try dealing with Clyde's claims, do something of value instead of hanging on my every word and putting up smiley faces
When I say anything you try to debate it automatically
but when other people put up bizare absurd theories you don't question it, you let it ride over and over again. That is why this forum is so thick with nonsense
Again read the first post, John Blanke has zero to do with it
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Oh Lionese, there are Muurs everywhere!!
Muurish Kings of Hawaii:
The Great Black Kings of Hawaii: President Obama proclaims King Kamehameha Day
HONOLULU — President Barack Obama is urging the nation to celebrate Kamehameha (kah-MAY-hah-may-hah) Day along with Hawaii.
Obama who is the first black as well as the first Hawaii-born president of the United States signed a statement Thursday proclaiming June 11, 2010, Kamehameha Day in honor of “King Kamehameha the Great,” the great black King of the Black Hawaiians before its conquest by American sponsored aggression.
King Kamehameha unified the Hawaiian Islands under one government. See his picture posted. View the video the Black Kings and Queens of Hawaii, posted on Rasta Livewire.
So even Hawaiians come from Muurocco
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Oh Lionese, there are Muurs everywhere!!
Muurish Kings of Hawaii:
The Great Black Kings of Hawaii: President Obama proclaims King Kamehameha Day
HONOLULU — President Barack Obama is urging the nation to celebrate Kamehameha (kah-MAY-hah-may-hah) Day along with Hawaii.
Obama who is the first black as well as the first Hawaii-born president of the United States signed a statement Thursday proclaiming June 11, 2010, Kamehameha Day in honor of “King Kamehameha the Great,” the great black King of the Black Hawaiians before its conquest by American sponsored aggression.
King Kamehameha unified the Hawaiian Islands under one government. See his picture posted. View the video the Black Kings and Queens of Hawaii, posted on Rasta Livewire.
quote: Today the Garifuna live primarily in Central America. They live along the Caribbean Coast in Belize, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Honduras including the mainland, and on the island of Roatán. There are also diaspora communities of Garifuna in the United States, particularly in Los Angeles, Miami, New York, and other major cities....
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
Clyde why are you lying and trying to steal from the Native Americans? Turbans related to the Islamic moors of North Africa are not Native American and the Moors did not introduce farming to the Native Americans, that is complete foolishness
The Cherokee Turban came to be from the fact that, in the 1600's, a group of Englishmen took a small group of Cherokee chiefs and warriors to England to meet the king. Just before they were to enter the throne room, the Englishmen decided that the Cherokee warriors were not dressed properly to be presented to the king. So, in looking around for something more appropriate to dress the Cherokee in, they found some old linen shirts from the time, and some turbans that were left over from some officials from India. They dressed the Cherokee in this attire to meet the king. They were allowed to keep these items when they were brought back to their village. Since then, other Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee, Seminole, and Chickasaw began wearing this type of head gear for ceremonies and Special functions. Since east of the Mississippi was a vast forest, it was not practical for the feathered war bonnets like the plains tribes had to be worn in this area. The turban was close to the head and light to wear. It also helps keep the head warm in Winter!
_________________
This is bs. Carolina Indians who were not Muslim inspired wore feathers,as did Africans in Africa. The Yamassee were not taken to visit the English crown. They were mainly at war with the Europeans so they did not adapt this custom from the English.
You expect soembody to believe that the Yamassee and other Black tribes adopted this from the British, when they did not recognize the English culture as superior to their own.
You are the one lying. Islam was already here as proven by the Yamassee fighting the British. This Muurs, did not respect the British.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: In 1300's many Malians sailed to the Americas. Although, most Malians settled in Brazil, Mexico and built the mounds along the Mississippi River, some Malians settled in Florida.
Some of the Malians were Muslims.
Any Malians who sailed to the Americas in the 1300s are not native Americans, they are foreign colonists. Native Americans go back for thousands of years
Mongoloid Native Americans are recent immigrants as well. The mongoloid Native Americans came from Siberia. The original settlers the Paleoamericans were Negroid people, phenotypically African or Australian.
As a result, the Black Native Americans are just as Native to America as the mongoloid people. .
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "Muur" is a dutch word meaning wall
Muur also an Arabic pronunciation for Moor. But I don't expect you to know this, with that little understanding of yours.
show me any academic text the refers to the Moors as "Muurs"
show me any text where the pronunciation of a word replaces it's proper spelling
show me any text which describes the Arab pronunciation of the word "Moor" as "muur"
muur is a variant of mbuangualu/xyambuatlaya, order/border/mortar other/brother/mother otli/potli/? (Aztec) udder/butter/mudder water/pattern/matter atl(Az)/bottle/mottle wattle = wall = muur via mbuatl moor is the same, moo-er (mother/cow)
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Studio portrait from a daguerreotype of Chief Kiyo-Kaga or Keokuk or Watchful Fox or One Who Moves About Alert, wearing turban-like headband with fur or hair roach, multiple earrings, a cotton print shirt, multiple necklaces, a peace medal, bear claw necklace, and holds a staff, 1847
Saint Louis; Saint Louis City; Missouri; USA
Sauk people ___________________
Otoe man - 1896 Otoe or Oto are a Midwestern Native American tribe. The Otoe language, Chiwere, is part of the Siouan family and closely related to that of the related Iowa and Missouri tribes.
_______________
Tsahizn Tseh, Apache 1906
_______________
has nothing to do with Moors
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: "Muur" is a dutch word meaning wall
Muur also an Arabic pronunciation for Moor. But I don't expect you to know this, with that little understanding of yours.
show me any academic text the refers to the Moors as "Muurs"
show me any text where the pronunciation of a word replaces it's proper spelling
show me any text which describes the Arab pronunciation of the word "Moor" as "muur"
It has nothing to do with academics, it's simply an Arabic pronunciation. As simple as that.
Studio portrait from a daguerreotype of Chief Kiyo-Kaga or Keokuk or Watchful Fox or One Who Moves About Alert, wearing turban-like headband with fur or hair roach, multiple earrings, a cotton print shirt, multiple necklaces, a peace medal, bear claw necklace, and holds a staff, 1847
Saint Louis; Saint Louis City; Missouri; USA
Sauk people ___________________
Otoe man - 1896 Otoe or Oto are a Midwestern Native American tribe. The Otoe language, Chiwere, is part of the Siouan family and closely related to that of the related Iowa and Missouri tribes.
_______________
Tsahizn Tseh, Apache 1906
_______________
has nothing to do with Moors
Long before this time you had Muurs in England, and ("expelled") deported to the Americas. You weirdo.
There plenty of evidence for this.ome of this was already shown.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans.
John Trumbull's 1780 painting George Washington also depicts William Lee
A French engraving, circa 1780, showing General Washington holding the Declaration of Independence. The black man with the horse, though not identified, may represent Lee.
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
clyde nice picture of Black Native Americans in turbans fighting the British. Troll patrol nice picture of Native American woman.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans which I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans which I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans. Read it again.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans which I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans. Read it again.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans and that idea I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
As for Africans, it does not support Africans to make up false stories of how moors introduced civilization to the "Mongoloids"
That is racist colonial thinking
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
.
.
Washitaw Nation
The Washitaw Nation, or Washitaw de Dugdahmoundyah, is a group of Black Americans that claim to be a sovereign Native American nation within the boundaries of the United States.[1] Their name is taken from that of the Ouachita tribe,[2] who are also eponymous of the Washita River and of Washita, Oklahoma. The group was headed by Verdiacee Hampton Goston (a.k.a. Verdiacee Turner, a.k.a. Empress Verdiacee Tiari Washitaw Turner Goston El-Bey, ca. 1927–2014[3]). She was mayor of Richwood, Louisiana twice, in 1975–76 and 1980–84.[citation needed] She is the author of the self-published book Return of the Ancient Ones (1993). Goston asserts that the United Nations "registers the Washitaw as indigenous people No. 215".[2] In 1999, the Southern Poverty Law Center estimated the group had about 200 hard-core members, noting its popularity among followers of Moorish Science, an older black nationalist movement. The asserted legal basis for the establishment of the Washitaw Nation is a theory that individuals and groups may declare "sovereignty" and separate from state and federal governments, a concept earlier used by the Posse Comitatus. The argument is also made that Napoleon only sold "the streets of New Orleans and a military barracks" and that the rest of Louisiana was stolen from the Washitaw.[2] Various United States courts have held that the Washitaw Nation is fictional and that it is not recognized as a sovereign nation.[4] The Washitaw Nation is the accrediting agent for a diploma mill, the City University of Los Angeles
Dwight York (born June 26, 1935, also reported as 1945[1]), also known as Malachi Z. York, Issa Al Haadi Al Mahdi, Dr. York, et alii, is an American musician, writer, and leader of the Georgia-based Nuwaubian movement,[2] currently imprisoned on a 135-year sentence on child molestation charges and violations of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.
The Tama-Re complex in Eatonton, Georgia became the movement's new headquarters in 1993. The Nuwaubians now presented a narrative borrowed from that of the Washitaw Nation (a Louisiana Black separatist group led by an eccentric 'empress'), according to which they were Yamasee (a historical confederation of Native American nations in the Georgia area) as well as "Moors", based on a claim of prehistoric migration to America "before the continents drifted apart". At this point, the group called itself "Yamassee Native American Moors of the Creek Nation".[16] During the early 2000s (decade), York presided Tama-Re styled as "Our Own Pharoah NETER A'aferti Atum-Re," leader and chief mystagogue of "The Ancient Egiptian Order."[17]
In 2003, York entered into a plea bargain that was later dismissed by the judge, and then was convicted by a jury on January 23, 2004 – the judge having rejected his desire to be returned for trial to his own tribe:
"Your Honor, with all due respects to your government, your nation, and your court, we the indigenous people of this land have our own rights, accepted sovereign, our own governments. We are a sovereign people, Yamassee, Native American Creeks, Seminole, Washitaw Mound Builders. And all I'm asking is that the Court recognize that I am an indigenous person. Your court does not have jurisdiction over me. I should be transferred to the Moors Cherokee Council Court in which I will get a trial by juries of my peers. I cannot get a fair trial, Your Honor, if I'm being tried by the settlers or the confederates. I have to be tried by Native Americans as a Native American. That's my inalienable rights, and it's on record. Posted by Child Of The KING (Member # 9422) on :
Don't let the Passive Aggressive subliminal from lioness etc, Divide you Brothers and Sisters, whole reason she on the forum.
Just Remember Black, White, Red, Yellow, Brown has been 1 basically from the Jump.
Menes
ThutmosisIII
AmenhotepIII
Read About Abrahams Children
quote:Genesis 25:5-6 Now Abraham Gave All He had to Isaac But while He was Still Living He gave Gifts to the sons of his concubine and sent them away From his Son isaac
So Never be Divided. One Blood For Real.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans which I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans. Read it again.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans and that idea I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
As for Africans, it does not support Africans to make up false stories of how moors introduced civilization to the "Mongoloids"
That is racist colonial thinking
How is this racist thinking. Mongoloid Native Americans in the United States were nomads. The only mongoloid Native Americans who farmed always lived in villages near Black Native Americans.
They became sedentary because they learned how to farm and raise animals like the Black Native Americans.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Washitaw Nation was not the first Black Native Americans to reclaim their Muslim heritage. Nobel Drew Ali, founder of the Moorish Scientist was also part Black Native American.
I grew up on 47th Street.On 47th Cottage Grove the Moorish Scientists had a Temple. It was here that I learned the Arabic language from these brothers.
Note the feathers in Ali's Turban.
Yamassee Soldier
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Clyde this is ridiculous nonsense. Not because I don't agree that there were black natives in America, but because of your insistence on calling them "Muurs". What the hell is a "Muur" other than some made up word by Iron Lion? Do you mean "Moor"? What the hell is a Moor in this context? No African Muslim calls themselves "Moors". Go to Africa and find me some. The word was a European name for black Africans, first from the Roman Province of Mauretania, then later black African and other black Muslims in Europe and finally any black in Europe, Muslim or Otherwise. So what does that have to do with America? If there were any Migrants from Africa in America in the 1300s they would have been a minority.
Beyond that people around the world have been wearing head wraps and turbans since before there was an Islam. So why is that something you think is special and unique to African Muslims?
Mansa Musa did not call himself a damn Moor and neither did the people of the Mali Empire. So where on earth are you getting this from? And how do you go from them wearing head wraps to all of a sudden the people themselves were Moors? Seriously? Black people in the Americas were descendents of black aboriginal migrants from Asia, many looking similar to Indians from India and dark tibetans. They were not "Moors".
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde this is ridiculous nonsense. Not because I don't agree that there were black natives in America, but because of your insistence on calling them "Muurs". What the hell is a "Muur" other than some made up word by Iron Lion? Do you mean "Moor"? What the hell is a Moor in this context? No African Muslim calls themselves "Moors". Go to Africa and find me some. The word was a European name for black Africans, first from the Roman Province of Mauretania, then later black African and other black Muslims in Europe and finally any black in Europe, Muslim or Otherwise. So what does that have to do with America? If there were any Migrants from Africa in America in the 1300s they would have been a minority.
Beyond that people around the world have been wearing head wraps and turbans since before there was an Islam. So why is that something you think is special and unique to African Muslims?
Mansa Musa did not call himself a damn Moor and neither did the people of the Mali Empire. So where on earth are you getting this from? And how do you go from them wearing head wraps to all of a sudden the people themselves were Moors? Seriously? Black people in the Americas were descendents of black aboriginal migrants from Asia, many looking similar to Indians from India and dark tibetans. They were not "Moors".
You can't think. The term Muur or Moor, was used by Europeans to refer to African Muslims. Given this definition some of the people with Abubakari were Muslims.
Look at the evidence. You don't see any Indians wearing Turbans except among the Five Civilized Tribes. The Cherokee had a writing system that was based on the Mande and Vai writing systems.The Yamassee had soldiers wearing Turbans and kufi hats in addition to some Choctaw and Cherokee. The only people in the world at that time who wore kufi hats and Turbans were Muslims. The logical inference is that they were Muslims.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Stop claiming the mongoloid Native Americans look like Mongolians. They have flat faces, but they do not resemble Mongolians in any other features
The Mongolians do not look like dark skinned mongoloid Native Americans.
MONGOLIANS Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Stop saying the mongoloid Native Americans look like the Paleoamericans. Here are pictures of Naia and Luzia. Look at the faces they are not as round or flat as the mongoloid Native Americans.
Mongoloid Native American
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Obviously these mongoloid Native Americans have dark skin. They have the dark skin common Negroes because their ancestors mixed with Africans and Black paleoamericans.
Hrdlika (1-2) advanced the idea that the Paleoamericans were homogenous, a people that originated in East Asia or Melanesia. Other researchers were not so sure. Dixon , Imbelloni , and Rivet , did not see the first Americans as a unitary population from East Asia, they felt that this population was more diverse. Although there was controversy about the origins of the first Americans Hrdlika’s ideas prevailed and researchers accepted the idea East Asia was the homeland of the first.
using W.W. Howell’s measurements these researchers determined the PaleoIndians were of African, Australian or Melanesian origin. Melanesians and Africans have the same measurements. Howells using multivariate analyses, determined that the Easter Island population was characterized as Australo-Melanesian, while other skeletons from South America were found to be related to Africans and Australians . The African-Australo-Melanesian morphology was widespread in North and South America. The remains of the Black Variety have been found in Brazil , Columbian Highlands , Mexico , Florida , and even Southern Patazonia .
The Black Native Americans came here mainly by boat. The Melanesians settled the West coast, while Africans from West Africa settled along the East coast of the Americas.This would include SSA Muslims, or Muurs. Other Blacks crossed the Bearing Straits.
It appears to me that Sub-Saharan Africans and the Khoisan were the major Black populations in North America. In South America, the pgymies had the greatest influence. That’s why we see two different types of mongoloid Native Americans a smallest group in south America and a taller SSA type population in North America and Mexico.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde this is ridiculous nonsense. Not because I don't agree that there were black natives in America, but because of your insistence on calling them "Muurs". What the hell is a "Muur" other than some made up word by Iron Lion? Do you mean "Moor"? What the hell is a Moor in this context? No African Muslim calls themselves "Moors". Go to Africa and find me some. The word was a European name for black Africans, first from the Roman Province of Mauretania, then later black African and other black Muslims in Europe and finally any black in Europe, Muslim or Otherwise. So what does that have to do with America? If there were any Migrants from Africa in America in the 1300s they would have been a minority.
Beyond that people around the world have been wearing head wraps and turbans since before there was an Islam. So why is that something you think is special and unique to African Muslims?
Mansa Musa did not call himself a damn Moor and neither did the people of the Mali Empire. So where on earth are you getting this from? And how do you go from them wearing head wraps to all of a sudden the people themselves were Moors? Seriously? Black people in the Americas were descendents of black aboriginal migrants from Asia, many looking similar to Indians from India and dark tibetans. They were not "Moors".
You can't think. The term Muur or Moor, was used by Europeans to refer to African Muslims. Given this definition some of the people with Abubakari were Muslims.
Look at the evidence. You don't see any Indians wearing Turbans except among the Five Civilized Tribes. The Cherokee had a writing system that was based on the Mande and Vai writing systems.The Yamassee had soldiers wearing Turbans and kufi hats in addition to some Choctaw and Cherokee. The only people in the world at that time who wore kufi hats and Turbans were Muslims. The logical inference is that they were Muslims.
Clyde, black populations were in the Americas prior to any black muslim migrations you are referring to. And why use the word Moor when Mansa Musa and his Mali Empire did not use it? Why not just say Malian muslims or just black Africans? Moor is not a term that Africans use for themselves. It is a European term not an African term, but you are using it here as if it is a Native Black African term. And it is not. To this day the black African Muslims in West Africa do not call themselves Moors. And turbans don't prove anything about contact with African Muslims prior to Columbus. If there was such widespread contact then where were those black African populations in America with black African names?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Stop claiming the mongoloid Native Americans look like Mongolians. They have flat faces, but they do not resemble Mongolians in any other features
The Mongolians do not look like dark skinned mongoloid Native Americans.
MONGOLIANS
Where did you hear me say that the black native Americans were dark mongolians? I said aboriginal Asians similar to Indians from India and Tibet.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Dravidians or South Indians whose ancestors traded with the Portuguese
.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Stop claiming the mongoloid Native Americans look like Mongolians. They have flat faces, but they do not resemble Mongolians in any other features
The Mongolians do not look like dark skinned mongoloid Native Americans.
Where did you hear me say that the black native Americans were dark mongolians? I said aboriginal Asians similar to Indians from India and Tibet.
They don't look like South Indians either.
Note the facial features. This includes the roundness of the face.
Mongoloid Native Americans are not Black Native Americans. They are dark skinned mongoloid people whoes ancestors mixed with the paleoamericans, and later African groups that made their way to North America.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Amazonian
Some of the Amazonians were probably Muurs. Pedro Hernandez, noted that within Peru
quote: "Beyond the Indians and the women are very considerable nations of blacks....The story these Indians told me is that these blacks have long beards like the Moors...They knew they were black because their fathers had met them" .
See: Harold T. Wilkens, Secret Cities of Old South America, pg. 213.
As you can as noted by IronLion, there were Muurs in South America.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
In A.D. 1312, Emperor Abubakari Muhammad , of Mali gave his throne to Mansa Musa and embarked with his fleet into the Atlantic Ocean in search of the continent opposite Africa. Archaeological and epigraphic evidence indicates that Abubakari, and or members of his expedition settled in pre-Columbian Brazil.
The Indians have a tradition that Mansar Akban was the leader of another tribe which discovered the Cunan people.This Mansar Akban, may be a reference to Mansa Abubakari, who led the Malian voyagers to the Americas.
The Manding lived in mounds along the Niger rivers. The mound cultures of ancient America were built by Africans primarily Manding. The people of the Niger Delta formed river riverine communities which were partly vegetation with some aquatic animals were eaten.
The ancient Manding built several types of homes. In ancient times they built masonry houses and cliff dwellings identical to those found in the American Southwest. In Medieval times they lived on mounds in the most watery areas in their circular huts made a stone and wood on the top and their fields in front of the mounds tilled each day.
The Malian people introduced their technology to the Americas. The Manding built dwellings depending on the topography . Near rivers they lived on mounds. In semi-arid regions they lived in cliff houses, like those found in the Southwest. Today the Dogon who trace their descent to the Mande live in identical dwellings as those found in Colorado ,where Manding inscriptions dating to the A.D. 1000 's have been found related to the Pueblo culture.
According to Cadamosto the Mali marines wore white caps on their heads and a white tunic. On the side of the skull-caps worn by the Malian martines, a white wing decoration was emblaxoned, and a feather was stuck in the middle of the skull cap.
On board each naval vessel stood a marine with a round leather shield on the arm and a short sword. Other marines were armed with bows and arrows .
Murphy reported that the Malian military wore a uniform consisting of sandles, loose fitting cotton breeches reaching down to the knees, a sleeveless tunic, and a white headdress of either cotton or leather, decorated with one or more feathers .
The major weapons of the Malian soldier included iron-pointed spears, daggers and short swords, wooden battle-clubs and the bow and arrow .
The Malians left many inscriptions in Brazil and elsewhere after they arrived in the Americas. These inscriptions are of two kinds. One group of inscriptions were meant to warn the Manding expeditionary force not to camp in certain areas.
.
. Inscriptions in this category are found at Piraicaba, Brazil. Another group of inscriptions were left in areas suitable for settlement.
Once a safe place was found for settlement, the Manding colonists built stone cities or mound habitations. One of these lost cities was found in A.D. 1753, by banderistas (bandits). .
. Wilkins, reported that these inscriptions were found in the State of Bahia,Brazil by Padre Tellesde Menezes, in Marajo near the Para-oacu and Una rivers engraved over a mausolea. They tell us that the personage buried in the Tomb was named Pe.
The most startling evidence of Malians in Brazil , is the "Brazil Tablet", discovered by Col. P.H. Fawcett in an unexplored region near the Culuene river. The interesting thing about this Tablet, was the fact it had "African pigment" and features.
The most startling evidence of Malians in Brazil , is the "Brazil Tablet", discovered by Col. P.H. Fawcett in an unexplored region near the Culuene river. The interesting thing about this Tablet, was the fact it had "African pigment" and features (printed above) .
The personage in this Tablet was an elite of Malian colony in Brazil. Evidence suggesting a Manding origin for the Brazil Tablet are 1) THE CROWN worn by the personage on the tablet; 2) the Manding inscriptions inscribed across the chest and feet of the figure on the Fawcett Tablet; and 3) the evidence of breeches similar to the Manding style military uniform worn by the personage depicted on the Fawcett Tablet.
The decipherment of these inscriptions detail the burial place, and cause of death of a Mansa or Mande King. it appears that the Mansa on the Brazil Tablet" was named Be. It tells us that Be, was buried in a hemisphere tomb (i.e.,mound) .
The Malians in South America also built their homes on top of mounds. There major centers of habitation appear to have been Panama and Venezuela in addition to Brazil. In Brazil there are many megalithic structures that seem to have there prototype in Africa. For example, in Alagoas we find many stone monuments similar to those found in West Africa, such as stone circles formed by rocks placed vertically on the ground.
The habitation mounds in Brazil are called sambuquis. Some of the sambuquis, have radio-carbon dates going back into pre-history, while many of the mounds where artifacts have been found are related to the cultures of Venezuela, and have dates contemporaneous with the Malian voyages.
In conclusion the ancient tombs and Brazil tablet indicate that Malians probably landed in Brazil. This is a significant artifact because the elite on the Brazil Tablet, wears a uniform associated with Malian marines. The discovery of a Brazil tomb dedicated to Pe, may in fact be the tomb of Be, who is depicted on the Brazil Tablet.
References: G. R. Crone, The Voyage of Cadamosto, (London,1937) pp.57-59.
E. Murphy, History of African Civilization, (New York,1972) p.111.
Harold T. Wilkins, Mysteries of Ancient South America, (Secacus, New Jersey:Citadel Press, 1974), pp.40-45; and Branco, p.146.
Winters, C.A. (1977). The influence of the Mnade scripts on American ancient writing systems. Bulletin de l'IFAN, t.39, Ser.B ,Number 2, 405-431.
Winters, C.A.(1979). Manding writing in the New World--Part 1, Journal of African Civilization, 1 (1), 81-97.
Read more about this in
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Dravidians or South Indians whose ancestors traded with the Portuguese
.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Stop claiming the mongoloid Native Americans look like Mongolians. They have flat faces, but they do not resemble Mongolians in any other features
The Mongolians do not look like dark skinned mongoloid Native Americans.
Where did you hear me say that the black native Americans were dark mongolians? I said aboriginal Asians similar to Indians from India and Tibet.
They don't look like South Indians either.
Note the facial features. This includes the roundness of the face.
Mongoloid Native Americans are not Black Native Americans. They are dark skinned mongoloid people whoes ancestors mixed with the paleoamericans, and later African groups that made their way to North America.
Mr Winters please stop. You are missing the point. These people were from Asia and represented a type of Aboriginal population that is SIMILAR to those in places like India, Nepal, Tibet and other parts of Asia including the Pacific. These black Indians were not Africans. I know you say some things that are questionable but this takes the cake. All you had to say was there were black Native Americans here before Columbus and they may have had contact with Africans prior to Columbus as well which is simple and straight forward. The only thing you need is PROOF of African contact. Fine. But you jumped off the deep end as usual and went way beyond what is even necessary for any rational logical study.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Dravidians or South Indians whose ancestors traded with the Portuguese
.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Stop claiming the mongoloid Native Americans look like Mongolians. They have flat faces, but they do not resemble Mongolians in any other features
The Mongolians do not look like dark skinned mongoloid Native Americans.
Where did you hear me say that the black native Americans were dark mongolians? I said aboriginal Asians similar to Indians from India and Tibet.
They don't look like South Indians either.
Note the facial features. This includes the roundness of the face.
Mongoloid Native Americans are not Black Native Americans. They are dark skinned mongoloid people whoes ancestors mixed with the paleoamericans, and later African groups that made their way to North America.
Mr Winters please stop. You are missing the point. These people were from Asia and represented a type of Aboriginal population that is SIMILAR to those in places like India, Nepal, Tibet and other parts of Asia including the Pacific. These black Indians were not Africans.
No you are missing the point. The mongoloid Native Americans do not look like South Indians or Mongolian. Yes they have negroid features on a mongoloid flat round face but they are not Black Native Americans.
The visual information is in front of your face. The mongoloid Native Americans do not look like South and East Asians. They also do not look like Pacific Black Islanders.
Stop making up lies. The visual evidence does not support your conclusions.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
.
.
The Muurs of Brazil and the American Carolinas also wore similar headgear in addition to Turbans.
Here we see the Malian ruler compared to the leader of the Yamassee soldiers fighting the British. Both indivuduals wear the headgear associated with Malian marines.
This can not be a coincidence. It is further proof of the Muurs in Brazil and the United States.
The picture of Nobel Drew Ali, founder of the Moorish Scientists continued the tradition of wearing Muurish military garb going back to the Colonial period of the United States.
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Dravidians or South Indians whose ancestors traded with the Portuguese
.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Stop claiming the mongoloid Native Americans look like Mongolians. They have flat faces, but they do not resemble Mongolians in any other features
The Mongolians do not look like dark skinned mongoloid Native Americans.
Where did you hear me say that the black native Americans were dark mongolians? I said aboriginal Asians similar to Indians from India and Tibet.
They don't look like South Indians either.
Note the facial features. This includes the roundness of the face.
Mongoloid Native Americans are not Black Native Americans. They are dark skinned mongoloid people whoes ancestors mixed with the paleoamericans, and later African groups that made their way to North America.
Mr Winters please stop. You are missing the point. These people were from Asia and represented a type of Aboriginal population that is SIMILAR to those in places like India, Nepal, Tibet and other parts of Asia including the Pacific. These black Indians were not Africans.
No you are missing the point. The mongoloid Native Americans do not look like South Indians or Mongolian. Yes they have negroid features on a mongoloid flat round face but they are not Black Native Americans.
The visual information is in front of your face. The mongoloid Native Americans do not look like South and East Asians. They also do not look like Pacific Black Islanders.
Stop making up lies. The visual evidence does not support your conclusions.
Mr Winters you know what you said doesn't even make sense. Blacks are not limited to Africa. You know that right? I mean this is silly.
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Mr Winters you know what you said doesn't even make sense. Blacks are not limited to Africa. You know that right? I mean this is silly.
You are right Blacks are not limited to Africa. There are the Melanesians, and pygmy groups that formerly lived in Eurasia. But these Tibetans are dark skinned but they lack African phenotypical features. They represent the mongoloid phenotype, large heads, and round faces.
You are naive. As a naive person you associate dark skin with negro heritage. This is a stupid idea, when you can look at a Tibetan and compare him to an African, Melanesian or Dravidian you can see that they do not look alike.
As a laymen you believe that just because people have dark skin they must be Black. This is a false analogy. There are features associated with different races that identify their racial origins.
This does not mean that Dravidian and Mande speaking people did not live in these lands before they were settled my mongoloid groups. .
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
In 1300's many Malians sailed to the Americas. Although, most Malians settled in Brazil, Mexico and built the mounds along the Mississippi River, some Malians settled in Florida.
Some of the Malians were Muslims. The best evidence of Muslims in North America were the Jamassee/Yamassee. In the picture below we see many Muurs wearing Turbans and Kufic hats fighting the British.
The Muurs of Brazil and the American Carolinas also wore similar headgear in addition to Turbans.
Here we see the Malian ruler compared to the leader of the Yamassee soldiers fighting the British. Both indivuduals wear the headgear associated with Malian marines.
This can not be a coincidence. It is further proof of the Muurs in Brazil and the United States.
The picture of Nobel Drew Ali, founder of the Moorish Scientists continued the tradition of wearing Muurish military garb going back to the Colonial period of the United States.
.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
.
The Indian on horseback is a negro or Black Native American. A negro is a person with:
1) Direct African or Black Asian ancestry
2) Brown to yellow complexion
Note the difference in skin tone between the mother, father and children.
3) Long limbs
4) shape of the head and face varies
5) flat to semi pointed nose ( traditionally some Negro/Black people like to pinch the noses of their children )with dark skin
Here is a picture of several Wolof engaged in a conversation. Note the individuals in the picture the person in the center facing you appears to have a flat nose; whereas the person facing the center person has a nose which appears to be semi-pointed.This highlights the various nose types found among negroes.
6) curly to straight hair
7) round to slanted eyes depending on the Negro group
Note the varying shape of the eyes evident in these negroes.
8) thick or thin lips
Some people believe that Filipino and other Asian people can be classified as Negroes because of their dark color. But a careful examination of the two clearly demonstrates differences between both group in facial features eventhough the shape of the eye may be the same.
Tanzanian
Filipino
Look at differences in the form of the head, forehead and mouth. Note both have flat noses but they are clearly different in how they are established.
Both children are hansome and well proportioned . Note also the color both are brown but the African has a more richer brown complexion.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Dravidians and Fijians claim they are related to Africans and came from Africa. This claim is supported by African haplogroups, place names, linguistic cognition, and phenotypical features.
The Tibetans do not make this claim.
Doug M let me ask you a question. Why do you maintain that Tibetans and Mongolians are Black when they don't acknowledge this fact?
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: .
The Indian on horseback is a negro or Black Native American. A negro is a person with:
1) Direct African or Black Asian ancestry
2) Brown to yellow complexion
Note the difference in skin tone between the mother, father and children.
3) Long limbs
4) shape of the head and face varies
5) flat to semi pointed nose ( traditionally some Negro/Black people like to pinch the noses of their children )with dark skin
Here is a picture of several Wolof engaged in a conversation. Note the individuals in the picture the person in the center facing you appears to have a flat nose; whereas the person facing the center person has a nose which appears to be semi-pointed.This highlights the various nose types found among negroes.
6) curly to straight hair
7) round to slanted eyes depending on the Negro group
Note the varying shape of the eyes evident in these negroes.
8) thick or thin lips
Some people believe that Filipino and other Asian people can be classified as Negroes because of their dark color. But a careful examination of the two clearly demonstrates differences between both group in facial features eventhough the shape of the eye may be the same.
Tanzanian
Filipino
Look at differences in the form of the head, forehead and mouth. Note both have flat noses but they are clearly different in how they are established.
Both children are hansome and well proportioned . Note also the color both are brown but the African has a more richer brown complexion.
Clyde you are contradicting yourself. First you say that blacks in Asia aren't black if they are Mongols but Asian blacks are blacks.... And then that any range of features with dark skin are black features, even slanted eyes. But not the mongols with dark skin and slanted eyes.
And of course those blacks are all "Muurs". Even though there is nothing in Malian history where the Malians called themselves Moors. Let alone any evidence that dark skin in the Americas came directly from Africa and not through Asia. You are simply making up facts to present a garbage argument.
And you compare Negroes from Africa with Afros with black Natives in America with straight hair.... None of those Africans look like a native American. Yet you persist with that nonsense.
And the retarded part about this is that the recent invasion of Mali by lighter skinned populations and Al-Qaeda have been labelled as Moors. And YOU want to identify with that?
You are way off the path.
All human facial features come from aboriginal black populations, including European features. It is that simple. And that is true all over the planet.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: .
The Indian on horseback is a negro or Black Native American. A negro is a person with:
1) Direct African or Black Asian ancestry
2) Brown to yellow complexion
Note the difference in skin tone between the mother, father and children.
3) Long limbs
4) shape of the head and face varies
5) flat to semi pointed nose ( traditionally some Negro/Black people like to pinch the noses of their children )with dark skin
Here is a picture of several Wolof engaged in a conversation. Note the individuals in the picture the person in the center facing you appears to have a flat nose; whereas the person facing the center person has a nose which appears to be semi-pointed.This highlights the various nose types found among negroes.
6) curly to straight hair
7) round to slanted eyes depending on the Negro group
Note the varying shape of the eyes evident in these negroes.
8) thick or thin lips
Some people believe that Filipino and other Asian people can be classified as Negroes because of their dark color. But a careful examination of the two clearly demonstrates differences between both group in facial features eventhough the shape of the eye may be the same.
Tanzanian
Filipino
Look at differences in the form of the head, forehead and mouth. Note both have flat noses but they are clearly different in how they are established.
Both children are hansome and well proportioned . Note also the color both are brown but the African has a more richer brown complexion.
Clyde you are contradicting yourself. First you say that blacks in Asia aren't black if they are Mongols but Asian blacks are blacks.... And then that any range of features with dark skin are black features, even slanted eyes. But not the mongols with dark skin and slanted eyes.
And of course those blacks are all "Muurs". Even though there is nothing in Malian history where the Malians called themselves Moors. Let alone any evidence that dark skin in the Americas came directly from Africa and not through Asia. You are simply making up facts to present a garbage argument.
And you compare Negroes from Africa with Afros with black Natives in America with straight hair.... None of those Africans look like a native American. Yet you persist with that nonsense.
And the retarded part about this is that the recent invasion of Mali by lighter skinned populations and Al-Qaeda have been labelled as Moors. And YOU want to identify with that?
You are way off the path.
All human facial features come from aboriginal black populations, including European features. It is that simple. And that is true all over the planet.
You write stupid stuff. I made it clear that the Yamassee and some other Back Native Americans were Muurs. I didn't say all Black Native Americans were Muurs. You act as if Black and African people don't have various types of hair.
There is no contradiction I explained what make a person a negro. The Tibetans and Mongolians are not Black or negro people except in your mind.
Granted man originated in Africa, but certain populations: SubSaharan African, Western Europeans and Mongoloid people have specific phenotypical features which allows us to differentiate each population into different races. As a result, you can not make Asians, SubSaharan Africans, or a Chinese man into an African.
You stil haven't answered my question
.
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to native Americans
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans which I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
Yes, it is an insult, you've been supporting when it comes to Africa/ Africans. Read it again.
The idea that Moors taught the American Indians how to farm and write is stupid and an insult to Native Americans
and is an insult to Native Americans and that idea I have NOT been supporting. fool Read it again
As for Africans, it does not support Africans to make up false stories of how moors introduced civilization to the "Mongoloids"
That is racist colonial thinking
So basically you're telling me that you're a racist colonial thinker. I always suspected this, but now I am certain.
Posted by Child Of The KING (Member # 9422) on :
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Posted by Child Of The KING (Member # 9422) on :
Adam is the 1st Son of God, His Mission was Probably to teach the peoples a better way of knowing God the Father. They Were Probably Black There were Probably Peoples on the earth Before Adam and Eve.
Why I write this because of what is said in Genesis 4:15 Read:
quote: Genesis 4:15 But the LORD said, Not so anyone who kills cain will suffer vengeance seven times over
^^So there were Peoples on Earth Before Adam and Eve.
The People have been One from the beginning and All Features belong to ALL People.
Look at these Pics to understand:
Mulu Solomon Ethiopian Chamber of Commerce
Nikki, Philipino Writer
Will Post More later
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Child Of The KING:
Look at these Pics to understand:
Mulu Solomon Ethiopian Chamber of Commerce
Video of Mulu Solomon's Woman's Day poem about fighting discrimination
quote:Originally posted by Child Of The KING: Adam is the 1st Son of God, His Mission was Probably to teach the peoples a better way of knowing God the Father. They Were Probably Black There were Probably Peoples on the earth Before Adam and Eve.
Why I write this because of what is said in Genesis 4:15 Read:
quote: Genesis 4:15 But the LORD said, Not so anyone who kills cain will suffer vengeance seven times over
^^So there were Peoples on Earth Before Adam and Eve.
The People have been One from the beginning and All Features belong to ALL People.
Look at these Pics to understand:
Mulu Solomon Ethiopian Chamber of Commerce
Nikki, Philipino Writer
Will Post More later
You are right there were people before Adam. Remember that's why Cain was afraid someone would kill him after he left Adam. Genesis 4 :
quote:
11And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
13And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
It is interesting that new races or populations have claims that they originally lived in the mountains. The Hua or Chinese refer to the Tien Shan, the Caucasians recall a homeland in the Caucasas Mountains, and the Egyptians mention the Mountains of the Moon.
It appears to me that God shelters new populations in the higlands and after a catastrophe, they leave their mountain homes to replace populations that may have been wiped out due to extreme floods and mega-eartquakes.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: .
The Indian on horseback is a negro or Black Native American. A negro is a person with:
1) Direct African or Black Asian ancestry
2) Brown to yellow complexion
Note the difference in skin tone between the mother, father and children.
3) Long limbs
4) shape of the head and face varies
5) flat to semi pointed nose ( traditionally some Negro/Black people like to pinch the noses of their children )with dark skin
Here is a picture of several Wolof engaged in a conversation. Note the individuals in the picture the person in the center facing you appears to have a flat nose; whereas the person facing the center person has a nose which appears to be semi-pointed.This highlights the various nose types found among negroes.
6) curly to straight hair
7) round to slanted eyes depending on the Negro group
Note the varying shape of the eyes evident in these negroes.
8) thick or thin lips
Some people believe that Filipino and other Asian people can be classified as Negroes because of their dark color. But a careful examination of the two clearly demonstrates differences between both group in facial features eventhough the shape of the eye may be the same.
Tanzanian
Filipino
Look at differences in the form of the head, forehead and mouth. Note both have flat noses but they are clearly different in how they are established.
Both children are hansome and well proportioned . Note also the color both are brown but the African has a more richer brown complexion.
Clyde you are contradicting yourself. First you say that blacks in Asia aren't black if they are Mongols but Asian blacks are blacks.... And then that any range of features with dark skin are black features, even slanted eyes. But not the mongols with dark skin and slanted eyes.
And of course those blacks are all "Muurs". Even though there is nothing in Malian history where the Malians called themselves Moors. Let alone any evidence that dark skin in the Americas came directly from Africa and not through Asia. You are simply making up facts to present a garbage argument.
And you compare Negroes from Africa with Afros with black Natives in America with straight hair.... None of those Africans look like a native American. Yet you persist with that nonsense.
And the retarded part about this is that the recent invasion of Mali by lighter skinned populations and Al-Qaeda have been labelled as Moors. And YOU want to identify with that?
You are way off the path.
All human facial features come from aboriginal black populations, including European features. It is that simple. And that is true all over the planet.
You write stupid stuff. I made it clear that the Yamassee and some other Back Native Americans were Muurs. I didn't say all Black Native Americans were Muurs. You act as if Black and African people don't have various types of hair.
There is no contradiction I explained what make a person a negro. The Tibetans and Mongolians are not Black or negro people except in your mind.
Granted man originated in Africa, but certain populations: SubSaharan African, Western Europeans and Mongoloid people have specific phenotypical features which allows us to differentiate each population into different races. As a result, you can not make Asians, SubSaharan Africans, or a Chinese man into an African.
You stil haven't answered my question
.
Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines bsed on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines based on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
These Naga Asians only recently came to India. The original Naga were Ethiopians. They have nothing to do with India. Stop talking about places whose history you know nothing about.
What evidence do you have that the paleoamericans came from Asia. The first paleoamericans lived in Brazil 65kya. How did they get here with Ice covering the Beringa Straits?
You're stupid. You make comments without checking the literature. The Paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian. They are not phenotypically Asian. The first Asians do not appear until 6kya.
Due to the Ice Age, the Blacks had to have come directly from Africa 65kya.
As I said,"How are dark mongoloids , Blacks?"
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines based on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
What evidence do you have that the paleoamericans came from Asia. The first paleoamericans lived in Brazil 65kya. How did they get here with Ice covering the Beringa Straits?
You're stupid. You make comments without checking the literature. The Paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian. They are not phenotypically Asian. The first Asians do not appear until 6kya.
Due to the Ice Age, the Blacks had to have come directly from Africa 65kya.
As I said,"How are dark mongoloids , Blacks?"
Clyde Australians are aboriginal Asians or do you know what on earth you are talking about? That is what I said earlier "Aboriinal Asians". The Australians are just ONE GROUP of Australian aboriginal types and there were others all over Asia, including your precious Mongolians. That is the problem with you and your arbitrary identification of populaions with Africa. Technically what you are referring to is a specific subset of tropical adapted features which arose first in Africa but also spread around the world. But just like Australian Aborigines and Papua Aborigines are not "African" as in just recently left Africa, neither were the dark PaleoAmericans.
I am totally still waiting for serious proof of direct African contact between the Americas and Africa, which I know for sure is a fact. However, with you mixing up apples and oranges it is hard to get to the bottom of this because of your insistence on going off on wild tangents and not sticking with the core facts......
Don't you understand that 20,000 years ago most Asians looked more like PaleoAmericans, as in Aboriginal/Africans? Or don't you understand what paleo means?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines based on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
What evidence do you have that the paleoamericans came from Asia. The first paleoamericans lived in Brazil 65kya. How did they get here with Ice covering the Beringa Straits?
You're stupid. You make comments without checking the literature. The Paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian. They are not phenotypically Asian. The first Asians do not appear until 6kya.
Due to the Ice Age, the Blacks had to have come directly from Africa 65kya.
As I said,"How are dark mongoloids , Blacks?"
Clyde Australians are aboriginal Asians or do you know what on earth you are talking about?
Correct. And Australians are considered Negroes, not dark skinned mongoloids.
.
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines based on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
What evidence do you have that the paleoamericans came from Asia. The first paleoamericans lived in Brazil 65kya. How did they get here with Ice covering the Beringa Straits?
You're stupid. You make comments without checking the literature. The Paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian. They are not phenotypically Asian. The first Asians do not appear until 6kya.
Due to the Ice Age, the Blacks had to have come directly from Africa 65kya.
As I said,"How are dark mongoloids , Blacks?"
Clyde Australians are aboriginal Asians or do you know what on earth you are talking about?
Correct. And Australians are considered Negroes, not dark skinned mongoloids.
.
.
Clyde you do know that the first so called mongoloids were dark skin aboriginal type people or don't you get it? But this is where you and I disagree because you seem to be stuck on the artificial racial characteristics created by Europeans. There are today and have always been dark mongolians/Tibetans. And 20,000 yeas ago there were a lot more of them and it is from that population that you get the original Americans....
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines based on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
What evidence do you have that the paleoamericans came from Asia. The first paleoamericans lived in Brazil 65kya. How did they get here with Ice covering the Beringa Straits?
You're stupid. You make comments without checking the literature. The Paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian. They are not phenotypically Asian. The first Asians do not appear until 6kya.
Due to the Ice Age, the Blacks had to have come directly from Africa 65kya.
As I said,"How are dark mongoloids , Blacks?"
Clyde Australians are aboriginal Asians or do you know what on earth you are talking about?
Correct. And Australians are considered Negroes, not dark skinned mongoloids.
.
.
Clyde you do know that the first so called mongoloids were dark skin aboriginal type people or don't you get it? But this is where you and I disagree because you seem to be stuck on the artificial racial characteristics created by Europeans. There are today and have always been dark mongolians/Tibetans. And 20,000 yeas ago there were a lot more of them and it is from that population that you get the original Americans....
Your comments are ludicris. Please cite the paper that says the first mongoloids were negroes. How can a negro be a negro and a mongoloid at the say time.
The oldest Asian skeletal remains are of Negroes not mongoloid people.
.
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Clyde if you dont get it by now you are denying that the first populations of the US came from Asia and that they were of primarily aboriginal Asian stock, meaning dark. So what you are saying is you can distinguish between those Aborigines based on "features" but as we have said before, ALL the PaleoAmericans had those features. That is what I mean by aborigine. So if those blacks were already here the how did some Africans introduce those features later? You don't undrstand diversity and you are oversimplifying the issue. If ALL humans came from Africans then the further you go back the MORE they look African. So you are contradicting yourself. Early Asians may have looked African but they were still Asians.
Perfect example of what I mean.... Nagaland North India:
What evidence do you have that the paleoamericans came from Asia. The first paleoamericans lived in Brazil 65kya. How did they get here with Ice covering the Beringa Straits?
You're stupid. You make comments without checking the literature. The Paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian. They are not phenotypically Asian. The first Asians do not appear until 6kya.
Due to the Ice Age, the Blacks had to have come directly from Africa 65kya.
As I said,"How are dark mongoloids , Blacks?"
Clyde Australians are aboriginal Asians or do you know what on earth you are talking about?
Correct. And Australians are considered Negroes, not dark skinned mongoloids.
.
.
Clyde you do know that the first so called mongoloids were dark skin aboriginal type people or don't you get it? But this is where you and I disagree because you seem to be stuck on the artificial racial characteristics created by Europeans. There are today and have always been dark mongolians/Tibetans. And 20,000 yeas ago there were a lot more of them and it is from that population that you get the original Americans....
Your comments are ludicris. Please cite the paper that says the first mongoloids were negroes. How can a negro be a negro and a mongoloid at the say time.
The oldest Asian skeletal remains are of Negroes not mongoloid people.
.
.
Clyde you don't understand what I said. I said that 20,000 years ago the so called Mongoloids were much darker on average than now with similar features and that they are the population from which native Americans derive....
Period.
You are simply trying to avoid this FACT by denying it and pretending that dark so-called Mongoloids don't or haven't existed not because of any biology but because you are stuck on trying to prove that black native americans were Africans and not Aboriginal black Asians which included black "mongoloid" type Asians.
Which is nonsense.
Australian Aborigines left Australia over 60,000 years ago. They are Asians not Africans. Similarly other black Asian aborigines whether from New Guinea, Fiji or anywhere else are also Asians and not Africans.
A good example of the Malians in the North America are the Nanticokes. The Nanticokes were described by B.S Barton as very dark. This tribe of Black Native Americans formerly lived in the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware. They later settled in Wyoming, Oklahoma and Canada.
During the Revolutionary War, the Nanticoke sided with the British and many Nanticoke migrated to Canada, while others went into hiding or moved out West. By 1867, the Nanticoke moved to Kansas with the Lenape. There chiefdoms were called Monie, Wicomoco and Manokin (,Mandekan ?).
In 1741-51, J.C. Pyrlaeus collected the Numerals of the Nanticoke. This was before the Revolutionary War. Around this time the Conoy people joined their tribe.
The numerals collected by Pyrlaeus when they were compared to other numerals by Murray in 1873, they did not match numerals in any known Indian language. Brinton found that they were identical to Malinke-Bambara numerals.
These numerals make it clear the Nanticoke were descendants of the Malian explorers.
Below are Nanticoke at the Lenape-Nanticoke annual celebration.
.
.
Posted by Child Of The KING (Member # 9422) on :
^^^Credit Clyde Winters for Posting the Picture of the Youngsta that looks exactly like this Elder from 1896
Otoe man - 1896 Otoe or Oto are a Midwestern Native American tribe. The Otoe language, Chiwere, is part of the Siouan family and closely related to that of the related Iowa and Missouri tribes.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Nanticoke and Lenape
Around 25,000 Mande speakers set sail for the Americas in the 1300’s from the Mali Empire of West Africa. Some of these Mande speakers may have been the ancestors of the Nanticoke.
In A.D. 1312, Emperor Abubakari Muhammad , of Mali gave his throne to Mansa Musa and embarked with his fleet into the Atlantic Ocean in search of the continent opposite Africa. Archaeological and epigraphic evidence indicates that Abubakari, and or members of his expedition settled in pre-Columbian Brazil.
The Indians have a tradition that Mansar Akban was the leader of another tribe which discovered the Cunan people.This Mansar Akban, may be a reference to Mansa Abubakari, who led the Malian voyagers to the Americas.
The Manding lived in mounds along the Niger rivers. The mound cultures of ancient America were built by Africans primarily Manding. The people of the Niger Delta formed river riverine communities which were partly vegetation with some aquatic animals were eaten.
The ancient Manding built several types of homes. In ancient times they built masonry houses and cliff dwellings identical to those found in the American Southwest. In Medieval times they lived on mounds in the most watery areas in their circular huts made a stone and wood on the top and their fields in front of the mounds tilled each day.
The Malian people introduced their technology to the Americas. The Manding built dwellings depending on the topography . Near rivers they lived on mounds. In semi-arid regions they lived in cliff houses, like those found in the Southwest. Today the Dogon who trace their descent to the Mande live in identical dwellings as those found in Colorado ,where Manding inscriptions dating to the A.D. 1000 's have been found related to the Pueblo culture.
According to Cadamosto the Mali marines wore white caps on their heads and a white tunic. On the side of the skull-caps worn by the Malian martines, a white wing decoration was emblaxoned, and a feather was stuck in the middle of the skull cap.
On board each naval vessel stood a marine with a round leather shield on the arm and a short sword. Other marines were armed with bows and arrows .
Murphy reported that the Malian military wore a uniform consisting of sandles, loose fitting cotton breeches reaching down to the knees, a sleeveless tunic, and a white headdress of either cotton or leather, decorated with one or more feathers .
The major weapons of the Malian soldier included iron-pointed spears, daggers and short swords, wooden battle-clubs and the bow and arrow .
The Malians left many inscriptions in the United States and elsewhere after they arrived in the Americas. These inscriptions are of two kinds. One group of inscriptions were meant to warn the Manding expeditionary force not to camp in certain areas.
.
.
Daniel G. Brinton, in On Certain Supposed Words, Shown to be of African Origin (Am. Antiquarian and Oriental Journal (1887) ), argues that the Mande numerals recorded by J.C. Pyrlaeus, were probably the numerals of a run away slave, because they were of Mande origin. This was pure speculation on Brinton’s part because there were many Black Native American tribes on the Eastern coast of North America.
This was speculation on Brinton’s part, because he acts as if Pyrlaeus would have been unfamiliar with the Indians where he lived. Also, because the Nanticokes were very dark Brinton due to emphasis on Blacks being mainly slaves just assumed that the Nanticoke could not be Indian, since they were dark skinned. Although this is Dr. Brinton’s opinion there are a number of historical events relating to the Nanticoke
This list of words comes from a certain Mrs. Mulberry. Below is a comparison of the original Nanticoke numerals collected by J.C. Pyrlaeus, and the vocabulary collected by Murray
If you make a perusal of the comparison of the Murray Nanticoke and Lanape the numerals are just about the same.
Pyrlaeus collected the numerals in 1741, this was 50 years before Murray collected his vocabulary. By this time the Nanticoke had been separated. They originally lived in Delaware See: map
By this time most Nanticoke had moved to Wyoming, Pennsylvania and even New York. Because the Nanticoke fought with the Bristish during the Revolutionary War, many were resettled in Canada. Mrs. Mulberry lived along the Choptank River. As a result , of the Revolutionary War and European encroachment of Nanticoke land the Nanticoke, had joined the Lenape tribe. It is obvious from this word list and numerals collected by Murray by 1792, many Nanticoke were mainly speaking Lenape. This would explain the similarity between the Murray Nanticoke numerals and the Lenape numerals.
The Nanticoke numerals collected by Father Pyrlaeus indicate that Mande speakers lived in the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware, and contributed to the rise of the Nanticoke Nation. The Murray list of Nanticoke in no way means that the Nanticoke did not originally speak a Mande languages. It just shows that after 50 plus years of the Nanticoke living among the Lenape, most of the Nanticoke were speaking Lenape instead of their native language.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
Clyde why are you lying and trying to steal from the Native Americans? Turbans related to the Islamic moors of North Africa are not Native American and the Moors did not introduce farming to the Native Americans, that is complete foolishness
The Cherokee Turban came to be from the fact that, in the 1600's, a group of Englishmen took a small group of Cherokee chiefs and warriors to England to meet the king. Just before they were to enter the throne room, the Englishmen decided that the Cherokee warriors were not dressed properly to be presented to the king. So, in looking around for something more appropriate to dress the Cherokee in, they found some old linen shirts from the time, and some turbans that were left over from some officials from India. They dressed the Cherokee in this attire to meet the king. They were allowed to keep these items when they were brought back to their village. Since then, other Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee, Seminole, and Chickasaw began wearing this type of head gear for ceremonies and Special functions. Since east of the Mississippi was a vast forest, it was not practical for the feathered war bonnets like the plains tribes had to be worn in this area. The turban was close to the head and light to wear. It also helps keep the head warm in Winter!
_________________
This is bs. Carolina Indians who were not Muslim inspired wore feathers,as did Africans in Africa. The Yamassee were not taken to visit the English crown. They were mainly at war with the Europeans so they did not adapt this custom from the English.
You expect soembody to believe that the Yamassee and other Black tribes adopted this from the British, when they did not recognize the English culture as superior to their own.
You are the one lying. Islam was already here as proven by the Yamassee fighting the British. This Muurs, did not respect the British.
.
\
Clyde
Thanks for spreading truth and wisdom.
Guys take a look at this picture. Observe the pendant on his necklace.... The star and the crescent.... and the scimitar.
The symbols of the Muurs of Muuritania!
MUURZ! Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
Clyde why are you lying and trying to steal from the Native Americans? Turbans related to the Islamic moors of North Africa are not Native American and the Moors did not introduce farming to the Native Americans, that is complete foolishness
The Cherokee Turban came to be from the fact that, in the 1600's, a group of Englishmen took a small group of Cherokee chiefs and warriors to England to meet the king. Just before they were to enter the throne room, the Englishmen decided that the Cherokee warriors were not dressed properly to be presented to the king. So, in looking around for something more appropriate to dress the Cherokee in, they found some old linen shirts from the time, and some turbans that were left over from some officials from India. They dressed the Cherokee in this attire to meet the king. They were allowed to keep these items when they were brought back to their village. Since then, other Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee, Seminole, and Chickasaw began wearing this type of head gear for ceremonies and Special functions. Since east of the Mississippi was a vast forest, it was not practical for the feathered war bonnets like the plains tribes had to be worn in this area. The turban was close to the head and light to wear. It also helps keep the head warm in Winter!
_________________
This is bs. Carolina Indians who were not Muslim inspired wore feathers,as did Africans in Africa. The Yamassee were not taken to visit the English crown. They were mainly at war with the Europeans so they did not adapt this custom from the English.
You expect soembody to believe that the Yamassee and other Black tribes adopted this from the British, when they did not recognize the English culture as superior to their own.
You are the one lying. Islam was already here as proven by the Yamassee fighting the British. This Muurs, did not respect the British.
.
\
Clyde
Thanks for spreading truth and wisdom.
Guys take a look at this picture. Observe the pendant on his necklace.... The star and the crescent.... and the scimitar.
The symbols of the Muurs of Muuritania!
MUURZ!
Despite its theme, the Shriners are not connected to Arab culture or Islam. It is a men's fraternity rather than a religion or religious group. Its only religious requirement is indirect: all Shriners must be Masons (with the exception being in the State of Arkansas), and petitioners to Freemasonry must profess a belief in a Supreme Being.
Fleming created the ritual, emblem and costumes. Florence and Fleming were initiated August 13, 1870, and initiated 11 other men on June 16, 1871
Walter Millard Fleming was a prominent physician and surgeon. Born in 1838, he obtained a degree in medicine in Albany, N.Y., in 1862. During the Civil War, he was a surgeon with the 13th New York Infantry Brigade of the National Guard. He then practiced medicine in Rochester, New York, until 1868, when he moved to New York City and quickly became a leading practitioner. He was also co-founder of the Shriners, a Masonic Order along with William J. Conlin. Fleming is listed as member #1 in the 1904 Report of Mecca Temple, NY, NY.
The emblem on the front of the fez, the crescent and scimitar, is an important part of the fraternity’s theme, and is representative of the characteristics embodied by the Shriners.
The scimitar stands for the backbone of the fraternity, its members.
The two claws are for the Shriners fraternity and its philanthropy.
The sphinx stands for the governing body of the Shriners.
The five-pointed star represents the thousands of children helped by the philanthropy each year.
The emblem also bears the phrase “Robur et Furor,” which means “Strength and Fury.”
MUURZ! Posted by Habsburg (Member # 21824) on :
Point of note:
I believe that there may be some truth to Clyde Winters statement about Tibetans being negroid or African.
One of the observations which led me to take Mike's theories seriously was seeing a picture of a man with the hair type Khoisan of man clearly labelled as Tibetan. He was a Tibetan, the picture was taken in Tibet and he was clearly dressed in Tibetan clothes.
The relation between Tibet and black people is that Jarawa people (ie Andaman Islanders) have a gene which is found among Tibetan people so the idea may not be that farfetched.
Don't forget Guatama Buddha too, who was from Nepal, who is also portrayed with peppercorn hair as well.
Posted by kdolo (Member # 21830) on :
Why does the SHRINER emblem have a white sphinx ????
Culture robbery again ?
Posted by Narmerthoth (Member # 20259) on :
^ No. Supposedly, the history of freemasonry is said to date back to Egypt and the time of the Pharaohs. Thus, it is not strange that Freemasonry is religion agnostic, since it's evolution per-dates Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
The star and crest do not represent Islam in this instance, but rather esoteric & exoteric eastern (African) philosophy.
In the case of African American Masons, or Prince Hall Masons, it is tied to Scottish and English Freemasonry and only a poor form of the entire eastern movement.
As I recall, to become a Shriner, you must first advance in the highest levels of Freemasonry.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
NrY D-M174 is the 'black connection' for * Andamans * Tibetans * Japanese
quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: Point of note:
I believe that there may be some truth to Clyde Winters statement about Tibetans being negroid or African.
One of the observations which led me to take Mike's theories seriously was seeing a picture of a man with the hair type Khoisan of man clearly labelled as Tibetan. He was a Tibetan, the picture was taken in Tibet and he was clearly dressed in Tibetan clothes.
The relation between Tibet and black people is that Jarawa people (ie Andaman Islanders) have a gene which is found among Tibetan people so the idea may not be that farfetched.
Don't forget Guatama Buddha too, who was from Nepal, who is also portrayed with peppercorn hair as well.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ...
Despite its theme, the Shriners are not connected to Arab culture or Islam. It is a men's fraternity rather than a religion or religious group. Its only religious requirement is indirect: all Shriners must be Masons (with the exception being in the State of Arkansas), and petitioners to Freemasonry must profess a belief in a Supreme Being.
.....
The emblem on the front of the fez, the crescent and scimitar, is an important part of the fraternity’s theme, and is representative of the characteristics embodied by the Shriners.
.....
MUURZ!
The Fez hat is Muurish, from the city of Fez Muurocco, one of the Muurish capitals.
Candidates for induction into the Shriners are greeted by a High Priest, who says:
“By the existence of Allah and the creed of Mohammed; by the legendary sanctity of our Tabernacle at Mecca, we greet you.”
The inductees then swear on the Bible and the Koran, in the name of Mohammed, and invoke Masonry's usual gruesome penalties upon themselves:
“I do hereby, upon this Bible, and on the mysterious legend of the Koran, and its dedication to the Mohammedan faith, promise and swear and vow … that I will never reveal any secret part or portion whatsoever of the ceremonies … and now upon this sacred book, by the sincerity of a Moslem's oath I here register this irrevocable vow … in willful violation whereof may I incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my feet flayed and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon the sterile shores of the Red Sea until the flaming sun shall strike me with livid plague, and may Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support me to the entire fulfillment of the same. Amen. Amen. Amen."
With this oath, Christians swear on the Koran, and declare Allah to be “the god of our fathers.”
Excerpt from The Origins and Influence of Masonry by Lee Penn, SCP Journal Vol. 25:2-25:3 2001 P0 Box 4308, Berkeley, CA 94704 Jesus People www.mission.org/jesuspeople
MUUUURRRRZZZZ!
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The Mongoloid Indians adopted many Muurish traditions such as wearing Turbans and using the Mande/Vai writing system to write their language. Here is a picture of Sequoyah to show this reality.
It is ironic. The Cherokee learned to farm , write and other elements of their culture from the Black Native Americans, yet today they claim, the only Black Indians, were their African slaves.
People will do anything to steal the history of Afro-American and Black people. Especially the history of the Muurs....
.
Clyde why are you lying and trying to steal from the Native Americans? Turbans related to the Islamic moors of North Africa are not Native American and the Moors did not introduce farming to the Native Americans, that is complete foolishness
The Cherokee Turban came to be from the fact that, in the 1600's, a group of Englishmen took a small group of Cherokee chiefs and warriors to England to meet the king. Just before they were to enter the throne room, the Englishmen decided that the Cherokee warriors were not dressed properly to be presented to the king. So, in looking around for something more appropriate to dress the Cherokee in, they found some old linen shirts from the time, and some turbans that were left over from some officials from India. They dressed the Cherokee in this attire to meet the king. They were allowed to keep these items when they were brought back to their village. Since then, other Cherokee, Choctaw, Shawnee, Seminole, and Chickasaw began wearing this type of head gear for ceremonies and Special functions. Since east of the Mississippi was a vast forest, it was not practical for the feathered war bonnets like the plains tribes had to be worn in this area. The turban was close to the head and light to wear. It also helps keep the head warm in Winter!
_________________
This is bs. Carolina Indians who were not Muslim inspired wore feathers,as did Africans in Africa. The Yamassee were not taken to visit the English crown. They were mainly at war with the Europeans so they did not adapt this custom from the English.
You expect soembody to believe that the Yamassee and other Black tribes adopted this from the British, when they did not recognize the English culture as superior to their own.
You are the one lying. Islam was already here as proven by the Yamassee fighting the British. This Muurs, did not respect the British.
.
\
Clyde
Thanks for spreading truth and wisdom.
Guys take a look at this picture. Observe the pendant on his necklace.... The star and the crescent.... and the scimitar.
The symbols of the Muurs of Muuritania!
MUURZ!
This is what is wrong with this thread.
Celebrating thieves and frauds like they are the originators of the symbols they wear. Identifying black folks with foreign customs brought by rapists and murderers as if black folks are one of them....
Totally inane nonsense.
Point of note, folks like King Leopold and the royalty of Europe are the pinnacle of this masonic system and they have their origins in the crusades among the knightly orders. From these orders came secret societies based around pillage and plunder, with the use of signs, symbols and secrecy to cover their tracks. Leopold and the French famously had African troops who killed their own people wear the fez as a sign of colonial armies and police.
The Fez as worn by the shriners is a symbol of empire....
And lets not forget the Grand Master of the Masons and the Ku Klux Klan, the Golden Bough and the Knights of the Golden Circle is none other than Albert Pike....
If you have read Robinson's Born In Born, The English beginnings of Freemasonry he proposes that Freemasonry came to England by way of the Knights Templars who were forced to go underground once the crown decided tp prosecute the Templars and confiscate all their gold and properties. However, they also acknowledge that the beginning of Freemasonry began in Egypt. The myth of Solomon, the temple, and Hirem Abiff or Hiram king of Tyre is an integral story in freemasonry.
In the wish to get the best information that I could on these matters, I made a voyage to Tyre in Phoenicia. . . .
Herodotus 2:44
By now all Syria and all Phoenicia except Tyre were under Macedonian control, and Alexander [the Great] was encamped on the mainland which was separated from the city of Tyre by a narrow strait.
Quintus Curtius Rufus
The History of Alexander 4.2:1
In Tyre, quantities of Phoenician pottery from very disturbed levels were recovered in 1970. . . .
Bikai, Pottery of Tyre p.1
Next, we know that Hiram was king of Tyre during the time of King David and King Solomon, as pointed out in the Jewish Tanakh and the Old Testament of the Bible.
And Hiram king of Tyre sent his servants unto Solomon; for he had heard that they had anointed him king in the room of his father; for Hiram was ever a [great admirer] of David.
And Solomon sent unto Hiram saying . . . "I purpose to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God . . . therefore command thou that they hew me cedar trees out of Lebanon. . . ."
1 Kings 5:1-6
Upon the death of Abibalus, his son Hirom took the kingdom. This king . . . joined the temple of Jupiter Olympius, which stood before in an island by itself, to the city, by raising a causeway between them. . . . They say further, that Solomon, when he was king of Jerusalem, sent problems to Hirom to be solved, and desired he would send others back for him to solve. . . .
Josephus, Contra Apionem 1:17
Which brings us to Hiram Abiff, the master builder, who was described to us this way.
And king Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre. He was a widow's son of the tribe of Naphtali, and his father was a man of Tyre, a worker in brass; and he was filled with wisdom, and understanding, and cunning to work all works in brass. And he came to king Solomon, and wrought all his work.
1 Kings 7:13-14
The Kemetic Origin of Freemasonry: The Signs and Symbols Do not Lie
The signs and symbols of ancient and modern Freemasonry are rooted in Kemet (Egypt) and the evidence is overwhelmingly obvious that Freemasonry borrowed its allegorical myths and ideological metaphors from more ancient societies that were well advanced in the philosophical mysteries. (Reference: Manly P. Hall; "The Secret Teachings of All Ages"). It all began in Cush (Abyssinia or Ethiopia) were perhaps some of the wisest Nubians toiled and where civilization originated. Thus transmitting their enlightenment in compliment with how the Nile River flows from south to north. Reference Sterling Means in his book titled, "Ethiopia and the Missing Link in African History" and John G. Jackson work titled, "Ethiopia and the Origin of Civilization" .
Leopold and the French famously had African troops who killed their own people wear the fez as a sign of colonial armies and police.
The Fez as worn by the shriners is a symbol of empire....
And lets not forget the Grand Master of the Masons and the Ku Klux Klan, the Golden Bough and the Knights of the Golden Circle is none other than Albert Pike.... ...
Another Dog barking.
No, the Fez is an ancient symbol of the African Muurs. Everywhere you find the ancient Muurs you find their Fez. The shriners are jonny just come to wearing Fez.
Here, I gonna help you:
Igbos Muurs of Nigeria:
African American Muurs:
A Berber Muur in Fez: Jean Discart (1856 - 1944) ~ A Berber in a fez
The "tallest" Muur Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Bonampak420 Keep the photos coming
.
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^Painting by Jacob van Meurs...
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: ....
Leopold and the French famously had African troops who killed their own people wear the fez as a sign of colonial armies and police.
The Fez as worn by the shriners is a symbol of empire....
And lets not forget the Grand Master of the Masons and the Ku Klux Klan, the Golden Bough and the Knights of the Golden Circle is none other than Albert Pike.... ...
Another Dog barking.
No, the Fez is an ancient symbol of the African Muurs. Everywhere you find the ancient Muurs you find their Fez. The shriners are jonny just come to wearing Fez.
Here, I gonna help you:
Igbos Muurs of Nigeria:
African American Muurs:
A Berber Muur in Fez: Jean Discart (1856 - 1944) ~ A Berber in a fez
The "tallest" Muur
Sorry. These folks who wore fezzes were primarily colonial forces and Africans killing their own people under the control of the colonists. Yes they were imitating the traditional costume of the Africans, especially the Muslims but this was a war against African culture not promoting it. Just like those native Americans were not "brothers" with the Europeans, they were at war with them and lost.
Dog, tell me more about the history of how your white people invented the fez.
I am all ears. Go ahead.
And please save me the spamming...
And the oversized pictures.
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
These are great post. They will help us write a true history of African people in America. This is more proof that Afro-Americans are the result of three groups: Black Native Americans, Black Europeans and Sub-Saharan Africans.
.
[ 03. June 2015, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Dog, tell me more about the history of how your white people invented the fez.
I am all ears. Go ahead.
And please save me the spamming...
And the oversized pictures.
The origin of the fez is uncertain it could be Greek. There are similar hats of earlier times with the Assyrians who defeated the Egyptians
Ashurnasirpal II Assyrian King
And there is Modius hat in Egypt a type crown of in Egypt, usually worn by Queens such as Nefertiti but also by kings such as Huni or Userkaf Uerkaf, 5th dynasty, Egypt
However while similar it's debatable whether or not to call these Fezes
This however is definitely a Fez >>
Nobel Drew Ali. founder of Moorish Science Temple
The red felt Fez sometimes with a tassel is assocated with the Ottomans and we can see the symbols of the Turkish flag here
^^^ So obviously if you wanted to associate with similar ancient Near Eastern hats you would not choose the red felt Ottoman version. That is the one the Shriners chose
The minutes of the Lodge of Edinburgh (Mary's Chapel) No. 1 in Scotland show a continuity from an operative lodge in 1598 to a modern speculative lodge. It is reputed to be the oldest Masonic lodge in the world
Obviously this doesn't add to the case that the Native Americnas were Moors
However The wide acceptance of the fez stems from the Ottoman Empire extending its influence (never to Morocco however) in the early 19th Century.
Ironically in Morocco the fez is a symbol of nationalism; it was worn historically as a protest against the French occupation in the early 20th century (1911) It is now associated with the Moroccan royal court.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bonampak420:
Virginia Indians notice the head in the right hand where have we seen that symbol before lol Virginia god of the wind [/QB]
.
Bernard Picart lived in Amsterdam and had never left Europe. He was using second or third-hand reference information
I'm not sure what the object is at left on the top of the other objects in the right hand of this psuedo-Mexican Virginian Indian is. We wnat it to be a head but is it even a human head or is it some other object ?
It is either
1) an unidentified object, but not human
2) a human head sacrifice -as noted they used Mexican source material to concoct this "Viginian" wind God
3) a decapitated Moor's head as depicted in European heraldry as in Sardinian bandana type
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bonampak420:
Virginia Indians notice the head in the right hand where have we seen that symbol before lol Virginia god of the wind
.
Bernard Picart lived in Amsterdam and had never left Europe. He was using second or third-hand reference information
I'm not sure what the object is at left on the top of the other objects in the right hand of this psuedo-Mexican Virginian Indian is. We wnat it to be a head but is it even a human head or is it some other object ?
It is either
1) an unidentified object, but not human
2) a human head sacrifice -as noted they used Mexican source material to concoct this "Viginian" wind God
3) a decapitated Moor's head as depicted in European heraldry as in Sardinian bandana type [/QB]
The reason that his reference information closely mimics "black mexican source material" Is because the Black empires of north and south american continents is more intertwined and complex than led to believe. The peckerwood would love nothing more than to have everyone believe that the North american continent and south american continent was just some wilderness with marauding bands of savages who didnt have a complex intertwining civilization.
Of course when the "white" immigrant europeans who learned sailing and navigation from black european men traveled to the americas they saw blacks from the south to the north and reported back as such.
Montezuma apparel
Florida native apparel Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bonampak420:
The reason that his reference information closely mimics "black mexican source material" Is because the Black empires of north and south american continents is more intertwined and complex than led to believe. The peckerwood would love nothing more than to have everyone believe that the North american continent and south american continent was just some wilderness with marauding bands of savages who didnt have a complex intertwining civilization.
don't be a chump you talk about peckerwoods like the racist you are
Yet you hold up the "peckerwood's" 1727 illustration as accurate
that is pure hypocricy
You post these pictures and have no link to the title or artist you know nothing about the background of the illustration nor the garments of Virginia Indians and leave out information about the title and artist
stop the Mickey Mouse sht, I check these things
guess what Virginia aint Florida Bernard Picart
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
In the god of the winds hand this is just my speculation is that it is a ships wheel along with the black moors head. as the moors were navigators and sailors
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bonampak420: In the god of the winds hand this is just my speculation is that it is a ships wheel along with the black moors head. as the moors were navigators and sailors
Instead of making up nonsense try reading some books about the illustration
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Bonampak420:
The reason that his reference information closely mimics "black mexican source material" Is because the Black empires of north and south american continents is more intertwined and complex than led to believe. The peckerwood would love nothing more than to have everyone believe that the North american continent and south american continent was just some wilderness with marauding bands of savages who didnt have a complex intertwining civilization.
don't be a chump you talk about peckerwoods like the racist you are
Yet you hold up the "peckerwood's" 1727 illustration as accurate
that is pure hypocricy
Dont be delusional peckerwoods is not a racist term. it is a term used by white people to describe each other they sometimes us it in the street and other times in prison look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckerwood
And there is no hypocrisy, there are "white" people who speak out against the disease known as WHITEISM and praise BLACK TRUTH. Lioness here is an example of a "white" person speaking out and going against the grain towards the disease known as WHITISM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cowles_Prichard James cowel Prichard drawing the Black Chief of the OTOE indians. The midwest of America "A spectacular portrait with the chief wearing a bearskin embellished with bear claws, beads and feathers. Catlin characterized this chief as a "quiet old man" when he painted him at Fort Leavenworth in 1832."
he Otoe were once part of the Siouan tribes of the Great Lakes region, a group commonly known as the Winnebago. At some this horse culture and semi-nomadic lifestyle of the Great Plains, making the American bison central to their diet and culture.
Dont be delusional peckerwoods is not a racist term. it is a term used by white people to describe each other they sometimes us it in the street and other times in prison look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckerwood
It's a stupid pejorative synonymous with cracker or redneck that no intelligent European American would ever use, stop the bullshyt
and this is not prison
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Bonampak420:
Dont be delusional peckerwoods is not a racist term. it is a term used by white people to describe each other they sometimes us it in the street and other times in prison look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckerwood
It's a stupid pejorative synonymous with cracker or redneck that no intelligent European American would ever use, stop the bullshyt
and this is not prison
"Shooter grossed $47 million in North America and $48.7 in other territories for a total gross of $95.7 million, against its $61 million budget.[9]
The film grossed $14.5 million in its opening weekend, finishing in 3rd at the box office behind TMNT ($24.3 million) and 300 ($19.9 million
The DVD was released on June 26, 2007, reaching the top of the sales charts"
Immigrant European americans at the highest corporate levels dont see it that way.
Dont be delusional peckerwoods is not a racist term. it is a term used by white people to describe each other they sometimes us it in the street and other times in prison look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peckerwood
It's a stupid pejorative synonymous with cracker or redneck that no intelligent European American would ever use, stop the bullshyt
and this is not prison
"Shooter grossed $47 million in North America and $48.7 in other territories for a total gross of $95.7 million, against its $61 million budget.[9]
The film grossed $14.5 million in its opening weekend, finishing in 3rd at the box office behind TMNT ($24.3 million) and 300 ($19.9 million
The DVD was released on June 26, 2007, reaching the top of the sales charts"
Immigrant European americans at the highest corporate levels dont see it that way.
stop piling another layer of bullshit on top of more bullshit
Your phoniness is tiring
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: .....
The Florida Muurs – Black Indians of the State of Florida
The young, powerful man in dark brown lacquered pearwood, the associated border on a tray tortoiseshell presents casual and supple Colombian Emerald level, is not a person in Africa, but an Indian.
Although facial features and skin color are those of a black African, but the body tattoos ethnological exactly shown have him as well as a Native Florida from, as well as the precious necklaces and bracelets, breast ornaments, the feather crown, the loincloth and footwear, in accordance with an engraving Dinglinger workshop were created...
At the behest of Elector August should this “natural wonders” in “Chur-Princely bull and tribal, to eternal Gedächtnüß” be preserved. Balthasar Permoser created for since 1723 in the development conceived Treasury Museum really original presentation of all possible means, the sculpture of a “Moor”.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Dog, tell me more about the history of how your white people invented the fez.
I am all ears. Go ahead.
And please save me the spamming...
And the oversized pictures.
The origin of the fez is uncertain it could be Greek. There are similar hats of earlier times with the Assyrians who defeated the Egyptians
Ashurnasirpal II Assyrian King
And there is Modius hat in Egypt a type crown of in Egypt, usually worn by Queens such as Nefertiti but also by kings such as Huni or Userkaf Uerkaf, 5th dynasty, Egypt
However while similar it's debatable whether or not to call these Fezes
This however is definitely a Fez >>
Nobel Drew Ali. founder of Moorish Science Temple
....
^^^ So obviously if you wanted to associate with similar ancient Near Eastern hats you would not choose the red felt Ottoman version. That is the one the Shriners chose
.....blah blah baa
Ironically in Morocco the fez is a symbol of nationalism; it was worn historically as a protest against the French occupation in the early 20th century (1911) It is now associated with the Moroccan royal court.
President Elect of Nigeria in his Black Fez:
All the men in your post and my post are Muurs.
Show me the greek president and his fez... Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
If you spell it "Muur" you're retarded
. Otto of Greece (1815-1867) in Evzones uniform The second son of King Ludwig I of Bavaria,
The Evzones, or Evzoni is the name of several historical elite light infantry and mountain units of the Greek Army. The unit is famous around the world for its unique traditional uniform, which has evolved from the clothes worn by the klephts who fought the Ottoman occupation of Greece
He was born Prince Otto Friedrich Ludwig of Bavaria at Schloss Mirabell in Salzburg (when it belonged for a short time to the Kingdom of Bavaria), as second son of King Ludwig I of Bavaria and Therese of Saxe-Hildburghausen. Through his ancestor, the Bavarian Duke John II, Otto was a descendant of the Greek imperial dynasties of Komnenos and Laskaris. When he was elected king, the Great Powers extracted a pledge from Otto's father to restrain him from hostile actions against the Ottoman Empire, and insisted on his title being that of "King of Greece" instead of "King of the Hellenes", which would imply a claim over the millions of Greeks then still under Turkish rule. Not quite 18, the young prince arrived in Greece with 3,500 Bavarian troops and three Bavarian advisors aboard the British frigate HMS Madagascar. Although he did not speak Greek, he immediately endeared himself to his adopted country by adopting the Greek national costume and Hellenizing his name to "Othon" (some English sources, such as Encyclopaedia Britannica, call him "Otho)."
___________________________________
In 1826 Sultan Mahmud II of the Ottoman Empire suppressed the Janissaries and began sweeping reforms of the military. His modernized military adopted Western style uniforms and, as hats, the fez with a cloth wrapped around it. In 1829 the Sultan ordered his civil officials to wear the plain fez, and also banned the wearing of turbans.
____________________________________
BOTTOM LINE:
THE FEZ IS NOT PART OF TRADITIONAL MOROCCAN COSTUME
IT WAS INTRODUCED AFTER THE FRENCH OCCUPATION 1911
.
Posted by kdolo (Member # 21830) on :
The fez named after Fez is not traditionally Moroccan.....
Do you even listen to your own nonsense....
If Ottomans and Modern Greeks used it it is because they copied it from Africans.........
Not like that has ever happened before.....
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Otto of Greece (1815-1867) in Evzones uniform The second son of King Ludwig I of Bavaria,
The Evzones, or Evzoni is the name of several historical elite light infantry and mountain units of the Greek Army. .... ____________________________________
.
Dunce..
You forgot to add this caption you found under the picture in wiki:
quote: A romantic portrayal of Otto in front of ancient Greek ruins, by Gottlieb Bodmer.
The Florida Muurs – Black Indians of the State of Florida
The young, powerful man in dark brown lacquered pearwood, the associated border on a tray tortoiseshell presents casual and supple Colombian Emerald level, is not a person in Africa, but an Indian.
Although facial features and skin color are those of a black African, but the body tattoos ethnological exactly shown have him as well as a Native Florida from, as well as the precious necklaces and bracelets, breast ornaments, the feather crown, the loincloth and footwear, in accordance with an engraving Dinglinger workshop were created...
At the behest of Elector August should this “natural wonders” in “Chur-Princely bull and tribal, to eternal Gedächtnüß” be preserved. Balthasar Permoser created for since 1723 in the development conceived Treasury Museum really original presentation of all possible means, the sculpture of a “Moor”.
Cool two paintings of the black indian chief from the midwest of ancient america
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ this is gaudy fake decorative nonsense depicting a generic "blackamoor" African with no name and dressed as a Florida Indian smiling as he brings massa his jewels
This fantasy was made to decorate the living room of "Augustus the Strong ", King of Poland
" During the 1709 carnival, Augustus the Strong even decided to appear on horseback as king of the Moors and was accompanied by Moors"
fools
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bonampak420: The Tlamatinime arrival over 5kya and the african maritime explorers clyde wynters speaks of:
From article " Tlamatini disciples first of Negroid features and curly hair, "raftas" or long braids, who had come from far away, over 5000 years ago. Tlamatini wearing a backpack with medicinal plants and arrows in his back. He wore a bow, an apron and a cane or walking stick control, symbol of great spiritual authority."
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Olmecs were not the first Africans to create a civilization in Mexico. These Africans came from the ancient Sahara and West Africa.
Africans founded many of the earliest civilizations in the New World. We do not know when these Blacks arrived in the Americas. Scientists theorize that over 5000 years ago a group of African settlers sailing along the West African coast, in their papyrus trading vessels were caught in a storm and drifted aimlessly out to sea. In the Atlantic ocean they were captured by the South Equatorial current and carried across the Atlantic towards the Americas.
We can assume that due to the ability of these explorers to navigate by the stars they were probably able to make a return trip to West Africa. Much of West Africa 5000 years ago was unoccupied. This means that the populations that later moved into West Africa were living in Middle Africa,and the Sahara. These people due to a different climate in the Sahara at this time traveled from community to community by sea. It seems logical to assume that one of these Paleo-African groups travelled down the long extinct rivers of Middle Africa and sailed out into the Atlantic Ocean and was carried to the Americas by the powerful currents found in the Atlantic Ocean.
Mexico and Central America were centers of African civilization 5000 years ago. In Belize , around 2500 B.C., we see evidence of agriculture. The iconography of this period depicts Africoids. And at Izapa in 1358 B.C., astronomer-priests invented the first American calendar. In addition numerous sculptures of blacks dating to the 2nd millennium B.C, have been found at La Venta, Chiapas, Teotihuacan and Tlatilco.
Chiapas Blacks
The African voyagers to the New World came here in papyrus boats. A stone stela from Izapa, Chiapas in southern Mexico show the boats these Africans came in when they sailed to the Americas. These boats were carried across the Atlantic ocean to Mexico and Brazil, by the North Equatorial current which meets the Canaries Current off the Senegambian coast. It is interesting to note that papyrus boats are still being built in West Africa today.
The earliest culture founded by Blacks in Mexico was the Mokaya tradition. The Mokaya tradition was situated on the Pacific coast of Mexico in the Soconusco region. Sedentary village life began as early as 2000BC. By 1700-1500 BC we see many African communities in the Mazatan region. This is called the Barra phase or Ocos complex.
During the Barra phase these Blacks built villages amd made beautiful ceramic vessels often with three legs. They also made a large number of effigy vessels.
The figurines of the Ocos are the most significant evidence for Blacks living in the area during this period. The female figurine from Aquiles Serdan is clearly that of an African woman. Ocos Female
The Blacks of the Mokaya traditions were not Olmec. The civilization of the Mokaya traditions began 700 years before the Olmec arrived in Mexico.
In the Olmec World: Ritual and Rulership (1995), (ed.) by Carolyn Tate, on page 65, we find the following statement “Olmec culture as far as we know seems to have no antecedents; no material models remain for its monumental constructions and sculptures and the ritual acts captured in small objects”. M. Coe (1989), observed that “on the contrary, the evidence although negative, is that the Olmec style of art, and Olmec engineering ability suddenly appeared full fledged from about 1200 BC”.
Mary E. Pye, writing in Olmec Archaeology in Mesoamerica (2000), (ed.) by J.E. Cark and M.E. Pye,makes it clear after a discussion of the pre-Olmec civilizations of the Mokaya tradition, that these cultures contributed nothing to the rise of the Olmec culture. Pye wrote “The Mokaya appear to have gradually come under Olmec influence during Cherla times and to have adopted Olmec ways. We use the term olmecization to describe the processes whereby independent groups tried to become Olmecs, or to become like the Olmecs” (p.234). Pye makes it clear that it was around 1200 BC that Olmec civilization rose in Mesoamerica. She continues “Much of the current debate about the Olmecs concerns the traditional mother culture view. For us this is still a primary issue. Our data from the Pacific coast show that the mother culture idea is still viable in terms of cultural practices. The early Olmecs created the first civilization in Mesoamerica; they had no peers, only contemporaries” (pp.245-46).
Cherla There continues to be no evidence that Olmec civilization originated in Mexico. R.A. Diehl, in The Olmecs (Thames & Hudson, 2004) wrote that “The identity of these first Olmecs remain a mystery. Some scholars believe they were Mokaya migrants from the Pacific coast of Chiapas who brought improved maize strains and incipient social stratification with them. Others propose that Olmec culture evolved among local indigenous populations without significant external stimulus. I prefer the latter position, but freely admit that we lack sufficient information on the period before 1500 B.C. to resolve the issue” (p.25).
^^^ this is gaudy fake decorative nonsense depicting a generic "blackamoor" African with no name and dressed as a Florida Indian smiling as he brings massa his jewels
People from Botswana are not Moors
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
The Black Seminoles are Black Indians associated with the Seminole people in Florida and Oklahoma. They are the descendants of free blacks and escaped slaves – maroons – who allied with Seminole groups in Spanish Florida. Historically the Black Seminoles lived in distinct bands; some were slaves of particular Seminole leaders, but they experienced more freedom than in white society, including the right to bear arms. Today, Black Seminole descendants live primarily in rural communities within the reservation of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma; its two Freedmen's bands are represented on the General Council of the Nation. Other centers are in Florida, Texas, the Bahamas and Northern Mexico. Since the 1930s, the Seminole Freedmen have struggled with cycles of exclusion from the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma.[1] In 1990, the tribe received the majority of a $46 million judgment trust by the United States, for seizure of lands in Florida in 1823, and the Freedmen have worked to gain a share of it. In 2004 the US Supreme Court ruled the Seminole Freedmen could not bring suit without the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which refused to join it on the claim issue. In 2000 the Seminole Nation voted to restrict membership to those who could prove descent from a Seminole Indian on the Dawes Rolls of the early 20th century, which excluded about 1200 Freedmen previously included as members.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Apache Indian Muur type basket:
On the face of it, it looked similar but they are not the same,the Africans employed the use of fractals in their designs the Native American do not. African Indigenous Knowledge and the Disciplines web page http://www.ted.com/talks/ron_eglash_on_african_fractals?language=en Posted this sometime ago if you saw this vid already then ffwd to time 6:40. But yes the Muurz did took it to Europe where it eventually found it's way into the modern computer.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Apache Indian Muur type basket:
On the face of it, it looked similar but they are not the same,the Africans employed the use of fractals in their designs the Native American do not. African Indigenous Knowledge and the Disciplines web page http://www.ted.com/talks/ron_eglash_on_african_fractals?language=en Posted this sometime ago if you saw this vid already then ffwd to time 6:40. But yes the Muurz did took it to Europe where it eventually found it's way into the modern computer.
Some Africans used fractals some did not.
The similarity between the African and Apache art forms suggests a point of common dispersal.
There are no accidents...
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
And Apache baskets sometimes used fractals and sometimes did not.
Apache Fractals
Brada Anasi, did you really research the topic before you interjected your comments?
The Black Seminoles are Black Indians associated with the Seminole people in Florida and Oklahoma. They are the descendants of free blacks and escaped slaves – maroons – who allied with Seminole groups in Spanish Florida......
Genius!
Did you just say Muurs of Florida and Oaklahoma?
Then who are those aboriginal Muurs below.
Are they also African American slaves??? :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: .....
The Florida Muurs – Black Indians of the State of Florida
The young, powerful man in dark brown lacquered pearwood, the associated border on a tray tortoiseshell presents casual and supple Colombian Emerald level, is not a person in Africa, but an Indian.
Although facial features and skin color are those of a black African, but the body tattoos ethnological exactly shown have him as well as a Native Florida from, as well as the precious necklaces and bracelets, breast ornaments, the feather crown, the loincloth and footwear, in accordance with an engraving Dinglinger workshop were created...
At the behest of Elector August should this “natural wonders” in “Chur-Princely bull and tribal, to eternal Gedächtnüß” be preserved. Balthasar Permoser created for since 1723 in the development conceived Treasury Museum really original presentation of all possible means, the sculpture of a “Moor”.
T.W. Shannon, a member of the Chickasaw Nation, has launched an historic campaign for the U.S. Senate seat in Oklahoma but not all of his fellow Republicans are on board.
Tea Party activists claim Shannon can't be trusted due to his tribal citizenship and his ties to Rep. Tom Cole (R-Oklahoma), also Chickasaw. ..
The Black Seminoles are Black Indians associated with the Seminole people in Florida and Oklahoma. They are the descendants of free blacks and escaped slaves – maroons – who allied with Seminole groups in Spanish Florida. Historically the Black Seminoles lived in distinct bands; some were slaves of particular Seminole leaders, but they experienced more freedom than in white society, including the right to bear arms. Today, Black Seminole descendants live primarily in rural communities within the reservation of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma; its two Freedmen's bands are represented on the General Council of the Nation. Other centers are in Florida, Texas, the Bahamas and Northern Mexico. Since the 1930s, the Seminole Freedmen have struggled with cycles of exclusion from the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma.[1] In 1990, the tribe received the majority of a $46 million judgment trust by the United States, for seizure of lands in Florida in 1823, and the Freedmen have worked to gain a share of it. In 2004 the US Supreme Court ruled the Seminole Freedmen could not bring suit without the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which refused to join it on the claim issue. In 2000 the Seminole Nation voted to restrict membership to those who could prove descent from a Seminole Indian on the Dawes Rolls of the early 20th century, which excluded about 1200 Freedmen previously included as members.
All of the Black Seminoles were not former Slaves. The Spanish mentioned many Black Native American tribes in Florida including the Yamasee. After the Black Native American tribes decreased due to intra-Indian slave trading to satisfy European demands for labor, war and genocide they often joined mongoloid Indian tribes like the Cherokee.
Europeans would often not allow Black Native Americans to identify themselves on official documents as Indian, they had to self-report themselves as "Colored freemen".
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The New Amsterdam Indians were probably Muurs. It is interesting that they had the same boats used by the merchants in Mexico, who were mainly Muslims.
Mayan and Mexican boats .
.
The Azteca and Mayan term for boat is Mande in origin. .
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
The New Amsterdam Indians were probably Muurs. It is interesting that they had the same boats used by the merchants in Mexico, who were mainly Muslims. [/b]
.
New nederlands/new england map
Native indians that looks like a feathered turban on his head on the bottom.
Similar to the black man who has a feathered headpiece in the George washington painting on page 1
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
Virginia indians- map that represents virginia florida indians. This would also include the black carolina indians
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
The Black Seminoles are Black Indians associated with the Seminole people in Florida and Oklahoma. They are the descendants of free blacks and escaped slaves – maroons – who allied with Seminole groups in Spanish Florida. Historically the Black Seminoles lived in distinct bands; some were slaves of particular Seminole leaders, but they experienced more freedom than in white society, including the right to bear arms. Today, Black Seminole descendants live primarily in rural communities within the reservation of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma; its two Freedmen's bands are represented on the General Council of the Nation. Other centers are in Florida, Texas, the Bahamas and Northern Mexico. Since the 1930s, the Seminole Freedmen have struggled with cycles of exclusion from the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma.[1] In 1990, the tribe received the majority of a $46 million judgment trust by the United States, for seizure of lands in Florida in 1823, and the Freedmen have worked to gain a share of it. In 2004 the US Supreme Court ruled the Seminole Freedmen could not bring suit without the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which refused to join it on the claim issue. In 2000 the Seminole Nation voted to restrict membership to those who could prove descent from a Seminole Indian on the Dawes Rolls of the early 20th century, which excluded about 1200 Freedmen previously included as members.
All of the Black Seminoles were not former Slaves. The Spanish mentioned many Black Native American tribes in Florida including the Yamasee. .
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Thes are not Moors and you are not Moors
You are West African
so stop goofing,
Can we get some real Moorish history in here rather than this fake stuff ???
thanks
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
As we can see the genre classification is listed "conjectural" Artist unknown 1671
As I pointed out earlier many of these illustrations are not first hand account a and rely on conjecture and second, third hand sources or the imagination of the artist
Do you think there is any link between this and the Muurish Indians we have shown you?
Here read:
The Japan Times September 22, 1999 ... (Reuters) Anthropologists unveiled the oldest known human fossil from the Americas on Monday, a woman’s skull with African features that could revolutionize theories about the continent’s early inhabitants.
The fossil — first discovered in Brazil in 1975 but only recently found to come from a woman who lived 11,500 years ago — shows there were human beings on the continent long before Asian immigration, said anthropologist Ricardo Ventura Santos.
They are not African American slaves They are not Moors
They are an illustration by an unknown artist intended to be native Indians and are in no way reliable
Do I need to tell you again?
If some native americans had afro hair it would be in the first hand colonial journals or by illustrators who are proven to have been in America and in the region they depict
otherwise you have nothing
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Duncey, you dodged the question. But yet had time to get abusive. Are you frustrated by the evidence.
My question again, are these people below African American slaves or indigenous people?
If some native americans had afro hair it would be in the first hand colonial journals or by illustrators who are proven to have been in America and in the region they depict
otherwise you have nothing
Duncey, expand your horizon, read:
quote: The best evidence of the Black presence in America before Columbus comes from the pen of the "great discoverer" himself. In his Journal of the Second Voyage, Columbus reported that when he reached Haiti the native Americans told him that black-skinned people had come from the south and southeast in boats, trading in gold-tipped medal spears. At least a dozen other European explorers, including Vasco Nunez de Balboa, also reported seeing or hearing of "Negroes" when they reached the New World.
Nicholas Leon, an eminent Mexican authority, recorded the oral traditions of his people. Some of them reported that "the oldest inhabitants of Mexico were blacks[T]he existence of blacks and giants is commonly believed by nearly all the races of our sail and in their various language they had words to designate them." See: Legrand H. Clegg II: Before Columbus: Black Explorers of the New World
Duncey, did you say, Afro hair and Muurish curls?
Look here:
They look similar to this Olmec Muur head here.
They also look similar to this Great Muur known as Martin Luther King.
You agree don't you?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Do you think there is any link between this and the Muurish Indians we have shown you?
There is no such thing as a Moorish Indian.
The Moors are from North Africa
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Here read:
The Japan Times September 22, 1999 ... (Reuters) Anthropologists unveiled the oldest known human fossil from the Americas on Monday, a woman’s skull with African features that could revolutionize theories about the continent’s early inhabitants.
The fossil — first discovered in Brazil in 1975 but only recently found to come from a woman who lived 11,500 years ago — shows there were human beings on the continent long before Asian immigration, said anthropologist Ricardo Ventura Santos.
what does an 11,500 years Barzillian skull reconstructiom have to do with a Netherlands illustration depicting the East Coast of North America Indians in the 1600s or Moors from North Africa ?
Nothing, learn some basic anthropology
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Hmm, interesting. Afro hair? Muurish curls
They look similar to this Olmec Muur head here.
They also look similar to this Great Muur known as Martin Luther King.
You agree don't you?
[/QB]
^ somtimes similar looking things are unrelated
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Dunce
It shows you who is aboriginal to Americas.
The 12,000 year old skull of Muur shows you how long Muurs have been here.
And we are still here. Through the 12,000 years of history.
We did not get exterminated.
Here see again the Garifuna Indigenous Muurs descendants of Luiza:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Do you think there is any link between this and the Muurish Indians we have shown you?
There is no such thing as a Moorish Indian.
The Moors are from North Africa
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Here read:
The Japan Times September 22, 1999 ... (Reuters) Anthropologists unveiled the oldest known human fossil from the Americas on Monday, a woman’s skull with African features that could revolutionize theories about the continent’s early inhabitants.
The fossil — first discovered in Brazil in 1975 but only recently found to come from a woman who lived 11,500 years ago — shows there were human beings on the continent long before Asian immigration, said anthropologist Ricardo Ventura Santos.
what does an 11,500 years Barzillian skull reconstructiom have to do with a Netherlands illustration depicting the East Coast of North America Indians in the 1600s or Moors from North Africa ?
blah..blah..blah...[/QB]
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Hmm, interesting. Afro hair? Muurish curls
They look similar to this Olmec Muur head here.
They also look similar to this Great Muur known as Martin Luther King.
You agree don't you?
^ somtimes similar looking things are unrelated
[/QB]
Indeed Duncey, indeed...
See backview of the Olmec heads compared with today's Muurs:
Corn rows. Mexicans dont do Corn-rows:
See the Mother of the MUURS of America:
The Japan Times September 22, 1999 ... (Reuters) Anthropologists unveiled the oldest known human fossil from the Americas on Monday, a woman’s skull with African features that could revolutionize theories about the continent’s early inhabitants.
The fossil — first discovered in Brazil in 1975 but only recently found to come from a woman who lived 11,500 years ago — shows there were human beings on the continent long before Asian immigration, said anthropologist Ricardo Ventura Santos.
The beginning of the formation process was in 1635, and believed to have been caused by the sinking of two Spanish ships loaded with black slaves who were being delivered to their buyers. In those days it was common for the Caliponan to give misleading directions, which lead them to the riverbanks where they disposed the ships from their shipments (gold, wine, and slaves) and killed all of the crewmembers.
The Africans were anxious to establish friend links to avoid being sent back to their owners as slaves; therefore they soon adopted their customs and native garifuna language.
So what the hell does this have to do with 12,000 year old Brazillian skull?
why are you wasting my time with complete nonsense?
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lionese: The beginning of the formation process was in 1635, and believed to have been caused by the sinking of two Spanish ships loaded with black slaves who were being delivered to their buyers.
Fool, your false HIS-stories fail.
You are relying on "beliefs"? I rely on archaeology, oral tradition, artefacts, genetics, art history, and other primary sources.
That is why you have been reduced to a passive-aggressive whine.
Listen to yourself whine. I showed you the Seminoles Muurs, you said they were slaves.
Then I showed you the black caribs and you call them slaves,
then I showed you the Hawaiians and you called them slaves
then I showed you the Garifunas and you called them slaves.
Then I showed you the Black Mother of the Americas from 12000 years ago and you called her a slave.
Can you show me evidence of your continued presence in the Americas for a continium of just 1000 years?
You are "a jonny just come" compared to the Muurish aboriginal nations.
Here read:
"The best evidence of the Black presence in America before Columbus comes from the pen of the "great discoverer" himself. In his Journal of the Second Voyage, Columbus reported that when he reached Haiti the native Americans told him that black-skinned people had come from the south and southeast in boats, trading in gold-tipped medal spears. At least a dozen other European explorers, including Vasco Nunez de Balboa, also reported seeing or hearing of "Negroes" when they reached the New World.
Nicholas Leon, an eminent Mexican authority, recorded the oral traditions of his people. Some of them reported that "the oldest inhabitants of Mexico were blacks[T]he existence of blacks and giants is commonly believed by nearly all the races of our sail and in their various language they had words to designate them." See: Legrand H. Clegg II: Before Columbus: Black Explorers of the New World"
Any MUUR questions?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: And Apache baskets sometimes used fractals and sometimes did not.
Apache Fractals
Brada Anasi, did you really research the topic before you interjected your comments?
You are correct in the Apache use of fractals but in Africa the use of fractals is continent wide in the Americas it is unusual,other places are in southern India and Japanese traditional art.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Old Study Of PreColumbian African Skeletons The Virgin Island. This skeleton was buried in a non European fashion with a large pot fragment dating to the Elenoid period (950-1250 A.D).It's upper body was contorted while it's legs was rigidly aligned and aiming true east as if they had been tied together;three heavy rocks were placed above the feet.The skeleton was racially hybrid,part Indian part Negro.It also exhibits what Dr Stewart considers tooth mutilation characteristic of West African cultures.
Read more: ]http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1682/study-precolumbian-african-skeletons-virgin#ixzz3bCJOe91V Analysis Of The Hull's Bay Skeletons St Thomasweb page Guys is needn't be an either or iether zero sum game, fact is we have documented reports of Blacks in the Western hemisphere when the first known European arrived here some could very well be archaic others may well be of a later date coming from Africa,some native American figurines and large sculpture depicted wooly haired types, so far the genetic data do not appeared to show any recent African tree however
quote:
In a study published late last year in the journal Nature, Johannes Krause of the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany, and his colleagues found that all human strains of tuberculosis share a common ancestor in Africa about 6,000 years ago. The implication is that this is when and where human beings first picked up TB. It is much later than other scientists had thought, but Dr. Krause’s finding only deepened the mystery of the Peruvian mummies, since by then, their ancestors had long since left Africa.
Modern DNA cannot help with this problem, but reading the DNA of the tuberculosis bacteria in the mummies allowed Dr. Krause to suggest an extraordinary explanation. The TB DNA in the mummies most resembles the DNA of TB in seals, which resembles that of TB in goats in Africa, which resembles that of the earliest strains in African people. So perhaps Africans gave tuberculosis to their goats, which gave it to seals, which crossed the Atlantic and gave it to native Americans.
posted this before^ however no one is buying goat dung eating seals from Africa infected by TB to be transferred to Native Americans.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Old Study Of PreColumbian African Skeletons The Virgin Island. This skeleton was buried in a non European fashion with a large pot fragment dating to the Elenoid period (950-1250 A.D).It's upper body was contorted while it's legs was rigidly aligned and aiming true east as if they had been tied together;three heavy rocks were placed above the feet.The skeleton was racially hybrid,part Indian part Negro.It also exhibits what Dr Stewart considers tooth mutilation characteristic of West African cultures.
Read more: ]http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1682/study-precolumbian-african-skeletons-virgin#ixzz3bCJOe91V Analysis Of The Hull's Bay Skeletons St Thomasweb page Guys is needn't be an either or iether zero sum game, fact is we have documented reports of Blacks in the Western hemisphere when the first known European arrived here some could very well be archaic others may well be of a later date coming from Africa,some native American figurines and large sculpture depicted wooly haired types, so far the genetic data do not appeared to show any recent African tree however
quote:
In a study published late last year in the journal Nature, Johannes Krause of the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany, and his colleagues found that all human strains of tuberculosis share a common ancestor in Africa about 6,000 years ago. The implication is that this is when and where human beings first picked up TB. It is much later than other scientists had thought, but Dr. Krause’s finding only deepened the mystery of the Peruvian mummies, since by then, their ancestors had long since left Africa.
Modern DNA cannot help with this problem, but reading the DNA of the tuberculosis bacteria in the mummies allowed Dr. Krause to suggest an extraordinary explanation. The TB DNA in the mummies most resembles the DNA of TB in seals, which resembles that of TB in goats in Africa, which resembles that of the earliest strains in African people. So perhaps Africans gave tuberculosis to their goats, which gave it to seals, which crossed the Atlantic and gave it to native Americans.
posted this before^ however no one is buying goat dung eating seals from Africa infected by TB to be transferred to Native Americans.
This stuff is passé. We have moved beyond this article on West Indian skeletons. Numerous pre-Columbian African skeletons have been found throughout the Americas.
Mexicans look African because indigenious Mexicans carry between 5-50% African genes, while Mestizos’ African admixture ranges between 20-40% Due to African admixture modern Mexicans look like the Olmecs and Africans generally . . Researchers can not dispute any of the points below with scholarly evidence—only their personal opinions. .. 1) The original Maya beginning with the Ocos , as illustrated by their the art, were Black Native Americans;
2) The Black Native Americans lived from Chiapas to Belize, Guatemala and Hondurus; Quatrefages and Rafinesque wrote about these Blacks
3) The root of the Mayan language is the Mande languages
4) The first Americans based on skeletal remains : Naia and Luzia were Negroes or Black
5) Black Africans according to researchers have been in Brazil since 100,000BC
6) The Khoisan took MtDNA haplogroups N and y-haplogroup E to Eurasia and the Americas
7) There are no “pure” Mexindians. Lisker noted that between 5-50% of Indian genes are African genes. See: Suarez-Diaz,(2014) Indigenous populations in Mexico. Medical anthropology in the Work of Ruben Lisker in the 1960’s. Studies in History and Philosophy of Biological and Biomedical Sciences 47 (p.117).
8) Mixe, Zenu , Wayuu and other Mexican groups with YAP+ associated A-G transition at DYS271, is of African origin. 9) Nanticoke spoke a Mande Language
10) Indian y-chromosome haplogroups C and D show African admixture at locus DYS271
11) The American haplogroups A and B are part of the haplogroup N macrohaplogroup Ch’ol and Chontal at Campeche carry R-M173, E1b1b, K and T.
12) Africans people carry mtDNA A common to mongoloid Native Americans and y-chromosome R, so they probably passed on these genes to mongoloid Native Americans
13) The Spanish explorers mentioned Black Nations and Black tribes in the Americas, they met, even before African slaves were landed in America
14) The Spanish said the Aztecs were Negroes.
15) Paul Gaffarel (2010) that when Balboa reached America he found "negre veritables" or true Blacks. Balboa noted "...Indian traditions of Mexico and Central America indicate that Negroes were among the first occupants of that territory." This is why so many Mexicans have "African faces".
16. Vasco da Gama is said to have found information about the West Indies from Ahmad b. Majid, whom he met along the West Coast of Africa . Bazan, R.A.G. (1967). Latin America the Arabs and Islam,,Muslim World, pp.284-292.
17)Majid wrote a handbook of navigation on the Indian Ocean, Red Sea, the Persian Gulf, Sea of Southern China and the waters around the West Indian Islands. Bazan, R.A.G. (1967). Latin America the Arabs and Islam,,Muslim World, pp.284-292.
18) Africans had the boats capable of sailing to the Americas.
19) Black Native Mayan people have left iconography in the sub-pyramids at Tikal, San Bartolo and Xultun murals which depict the creators of these monuments as Negroes or Blacks
20) Ancient Mayan Skeletons carried sickle cell.
21. There are no “pure” Mexindians. Lisker noted that between 5-50% of Indian genes are African genes. See: Suarez-Diaz,(2014) Indigenous populations in Mexico. Medical anthropology in the Work of Ruben Lisker in the 1960’s. Studies in History and Philosophy of Biological and Biomedical Sciences 47 (p.117).
.
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Bonampak nice picture of Virginia Wind God and black Seminole Indian.
When Rock Cry Out video have the picture of many black Native Americans, Mexicans and Peruvians.
Mexicans look African because indigenious Mexicans carry between 5-50% African genes, while Mestizos’ African admixture ranges between 20-40% Due to African admixture modern Mexicans look like the Olmecs and Africans generally . .
The problem is none of the above are Afro-Mexicans descendants of slaves
African ancestry in Mexico is under 5%
Th higher percentages are in specific regions Oaxaca, Guerrero, and Veracruz, That is where you might find someone 50% African
So one could make a statement "Mexicans carry between 5-50% African genes" yet because some Afro-Mexicans are 50% African that does not change the fact that African ancestry of Mexico is on average under 5%
And America is 13% African/ African Americans
Likewise because some Americans could be 95% African and you could say Americans average 0-99% African the African ancestry of of the U.S. is still 13% Afro Mexican
BOTTOM LINE AFRICAN ANCESTRY AVERAGE IN MEXICO IS UNDER 5% less than half of the United States' 13% average
The average Mexican is primarily Amerindian-European and some of the people above in the group photo are probably more native than most
^^^ Again here we have a person from the very isolated Amazonian tribe Yanomami
WHO HAS A WIDE NOSE AND FULL LIPS YET PROBABLY ZERO AFRICAN ANCESTRY, and peep the bone straight hair
so your Mexicans are highly mixed argument is a fail
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
Do you think there is any link between this and the Muurish Indians we have shown you?
There is no such thing as a Moorish Indian.
The Moors are from North Africa
There were many Indian Muurz in Canada. In fact these Indians were called Muurz. See:
Note the Muurist Headress Similar to the one worn by the Yamasee
Yamassee Soldier
.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
^^Teach, Professor Clyde, teach!
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Mexicans look African because indigenious Mexicans carry between 5-50% African genes, while Mestizos’ African admixture ranges between 20-40% Due to African admixture modern Mexicans look like the Olmecs and Africans generally . .
The problem is none of the above are Afro-Mexicans descendants of slaves
African ancestry in Mexico is under 5%
Th higher percentages are in specific regions Oaxaca, Guerrero, and Veracruz, That is where you might find someone 50% African
So one could make a statement "Mexicans carry between 5-50% African genes" yet because some Afro-Mexicans are 50% African that does not change the fact that African ancestry of Mexico is on average under 5%
And America is 13% African/ African Americans
Likewise because some Americans could be 95% African and you could say Americans average 0-99% African the African ancestry of of the U.S. is still 13% Afro Mexican
BOTTOM LINE AFRICAN ANCESTRY AVERAGE IN MEXICO IS UNDER 5% less than half of the United States' 13% average
The average Mexican is primarily Amerindian-European and some of the people above in the group photo are probably more native than most
so your Mexicans are highly mixed argument is a fail
There are no “pure” Mexindians. Lisker noted that between 5-50% of Indian genes are African genes. See: Suarez-Diaz,(2014) Indigenous populations in Mexico. Medical anthropology in the Work of Ruben Lisker in the 1960’s. Studies in History and Philosophy of Biological and Biomedical Sciences 47 (p.117).
In a discussion of the Mexican and African admixture in Mexico Lisker et al (1996) noted that the East Coast of Mexico had extensive admixture. The following percentages of African ancestry were found among East coast populations: Paraiso - 21.7%; El Carmen - 28.4% ;Veracruz - 25.6%; Saladero - 30.2%; and Tamiahua - 40.5%. Among Indian groups, Lisker et al (1996) found among the Chontal have 5% and the Cora .8% African admixture. The Chontal speak a Mayan language. According to Crawford et al. (1974), the mestizo population of Saltillo has 15.8% African ancestry, while Tlaxcala has 8% and Cuanalan 18.1%.
Now here again are the percentages of African ancestry according to Lisker et al (1996): Paraiso - 21.7% ; El Carmen - 28.4% ; Veracruz - 25.6% ; Saladero - 30.2% ; Tamiahua - 40.5%. Paraiso is in Tabasco and Veracruz is, of course, in the state of Veracruz. Tamiahua is in northern Veracruz. These areas were the first places in Mexico settled by the Olmecs. I'm not sure about Saladero and El Carmen.
But a comparison of Olmec figures with ancient Mayan figures , made before the importation of hundreds of thousands of slaves Mexico during the Atlantic Slave Trade show no resemblance at all to the Olmec figures.
African ancestry has been found among indigenous groups that have had no historical contact with African slaves and thus support an African presence in America, already indicated by African skeletons among the Olmec people. Lisker et al, noted that “The variation of Indian ancestry among the studied Indians shows in general a higher proportion in the more isolated groups, except for the Cora, who are as isolated as the Huichol and have not only a lower frequency but also a certain degree of black admixture. The black admixture is difficult to explain because the Cora reside in a mountainous region away from the west coast”.
Green et al (2000) also found Indians with African genes in North Central Mexico, including the L1 and L2 clusters. Green et al (2000) observed that the discovery of a proportion of African haplotypes roughly equivalent to the proportion of European haplotypes [among North Central Mexican Indians] cannot be explained by recent admixture of African Americans for the United States. This is especially the case for the Ojinaga area, which presently is, and historically has been largely isolated from U.S. African Americans. In the Ojinaga sample set, the frequency of African haplotypes was higher that that of European hyplotypes”.
•[list] [*]References
Carolina Bonilla et al. (2005) Admixture analysis of a rural population in the state of Gurerrero , Mexico, Am. Jour Phys Anthropol 128(4):861-869. retrieved 2/9/2006 at : http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/111082577/ABSTRACT Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
The average Mexican is primarily Amerindian-European and some of the people above in the group photo are probably more native than most so your Mexicans are highly mixed argument is a fail
There is plenty of genetic evidence of an African presence in the Americas. First of all, you have to get away from the idea that Africans left Africa only around 60kya. There were other migrations out of Africa. For example, the Khoisan who founded the Grimaldi/ Aurignacian culture in Europe left Africa around 40kya, and the Pygmy people who were usually referred to as the Anu, left Africa between 20-15kya. The pgymy people, as evidence of their presence on every continent had an extensive civilization in the past, eventhough , they are hunter-gatherers today.
There is no way the first Americans could have come from Asia, because the Beringa passage between Asia and the American continent did not become passable until after 12kya. But as early as 40kya there were American comunities in South America. I believe the first Africans to settle America were the Khoisan. The San would have carried the mtDNA haplogroup N into the Americas. The major American lineages A,B,C, are all descendent from haplogroup (hg) N.
By 15kya we have a new population arriving in the Americas the Anu or pygmy people. There were numerous pygmy communities in South America.These pygmies probably were the first to introduce y-haplogroup R1b into the Americas. Other West African groups brought R1b and mtDNA N into the Americas between 2000BC and 1300 AD.
The presence of y-haplogroup R1b and the lineages descendenting from hg N is testimony to the Pre-Columbian presence of Blacks in the Americas.
The foundational mtDNA lineages for Mexican Indians are lineages A, B, C and D.The frequencies of these lineages vary among population groups. For example, whereas lineages A,B and C were present among Maya at Quintana Roo, Maya at Copan lacked lineages A and B (Gonzalez-Oliver, et al, 2001). This supports Carolina Bonilla et al (2005) view that heterogeneity is a major characteristic of Mexican population. It is interesting to note that the speakers of the Mixe and Mande languages share many linguistic features and mtDNA haplogroup A.
African ancestry has been found among indigenous groups that have had no historical contact with African slaves and thus support an African presence in America, already indicated by the skeletons of the first African Americans, e.g., Luizia, Eva Nahron and the Olmec people. Luiza may have been of Khoisan origin, while Eva Nahron would probably date to the Anu expansion into the Americas.
Lisker et al, noted that “The variation of Indian ancestry among the studied Indians shows in general a higher proportion in the more isolated groups, except for the Cora, who are as isolated as the Huichol and have not only a lower frequency but also a certain degree of black admixture. The black admixture is difficult to explain because the Cora reside in a mountainous region away from the west coast”.
Green et al (2000) also found Indians with African genes in North Central Mexico, including the L1 and L2 clusters. Green et al (2000) observed that the discovery of a proportion of African haplotypes roughly equivalent to the proportion of European haplotypes [among North Central Mexican Indians] cannot be explained by recent admixture of African Americans for the United States. This is especially the case for the Ojinaga area, which presently is, and historically has been largely isolated from U.S. African Americans. In the Ojinaga sample set, the frequency of African haplotypes was higher that that of European hyplotypes”.
Amerindians carry the X hg. Amerindians and Europeans hg X are different (Person, 2004). Haplogroup X has also been found throughout Africa (Shimada et al,2006). Shimada et al (2006) believes that X(hX) is of African origin. Amerindian X is different from European hg X, skeletons from Brazil dating between 400-7000 BP have the transition np 16223 ( Martinez-Cruzado, 2001; Ribeiro-Dos-Santos,1996). Transition np 16223 is characteristic of African haplogroups. This suggest that Africans may have taken the X hg to the Americas in ancient times.
Underhill, et al (1996) noted that:" One Mayan male, previously [has been] shown to have an African Y chromosome." This is very interesting because the Maya language illustrates a Mande substratum, in addition to African genetic markers. James l. Gutherie (2000) in a study of the HLAs in indigenous American populations, found that the Vantigen of the Rhesus system, considered to be an indication of African ancestry, among Indians in Belize and Mexico centers of Mayan civilization. Dr. Gutherie also noted that A*28 common among Africans has high frequencies among Eastern Maya. It is interesting to note that the Otomi, a Mexican group identified as being of African origin and six Mayan groups show the B Allele of the ABO system that is considered to be of African origin.
Native Americans carry a high frequency of R-M173 (1). The most predominate y-chromosome in North America is R-M173. R-M173 is found only in the Northeastern United States along with mtDNA haplogroup X (25%). Both haplogroups are found in Africa, but is absent in Siberia.
There are varying frequencies of y-chromosome M-173 in Africa and Eurasia. Whereas only between 8% and 10% of M-173 is carried by Eurasians, 82% of the carriers of this y-chromosome are found in Africa.
This is very interesting given the presence on R-M173 is found among many American Indian groups (1-2, 12-14). R-M173 among the North American Algonquian group range from Ojibwe (79%), Chipewyan (62%), Seminole (50%), Cherokee (47%), Dogrib (40%) and Papago (38%) . These Indian groups hav a long association with Africans and many live in areas were Europeans found Black Native Americans.
Another interesting y-chromosome found in the Americas is haplogroup A1, common to many sub-Saharan Africans including the Pygmy/Anu people. Y-chromosome A1 is recognized as an African haplogroup. Ancient y-chromosome date was succesfully recovered from 24 skeletal samples of a total of 60 ancient individuals from Patagonia-Tierra del Fuego, dated to 100-400 years. Y-chromosome STRs (DYS434, DYS437, DYS439, DYS393, DYS391, DYS390, DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II, and DYS388) . These Y-STR alleles are associated with African y-chromosomes .
In conclusion, the presence of mtDNA hg N and A; and the y-chromosome hg R1b and A1, testify to the ancient African presence in the Americas.
References:
Carlson,D. and Van Gerven,D.P. (1979). Diffussion, biological determinism and bioculdtural adaptation in the Nubian corridor,American Anthropologist, 81, 561-580.
M.H. Crawford et al (1974).Human biology in Mexico II. A comparison of blood group, serum, and red cell enzyme frequencies and genetic distances of the Indian population of Mexico. Am. Phys. Anthropol, 41: 251-268.
Marco P. Hernadez Cuevas.(2004). African Mexicans and the discourse on Modern Mexico.Oxford: University Press.
James L. Guthrie, Human lymphocyte antigens:Apparent Afro-Asiatic, southern Asian and European HLAs in indigenous American populations. Retrieved 3/3/2006 at: http://www.neara.org/Guthrie/lymphocyteantigens02.htm
R. Lisker et al.(1996). Genetic structure of autochthonous populations of Meso-america:Mexico. Am. J. Hum Biol 68:395-404.
Martinez-Cruzado, J C, Toro-Labrador, G, Ho-Fung, V, Estevez-Montero, M A, Et al (2001). Mitochondrial DNA analysis reveals substanial Native American ancestry in Puerto Rico,Human Biology, Aug 2001
Makoto K. Shimada*, , Karuna Panchapakesan , Sarah A. Tishkoff , Alejandro Q. Nato, Jr* and Jody HeY, Divergent Haplotypes and Human History as Revealed in a Worldwide Survey of X-Linked DNA Sequence Variation, Molecular Biology and Evolution 2007 24(3):687-6
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ Again here we have a person from the very isolated Amazonian tribe Yanomami
WHO HAS A WIDE NOSE AND FULL LIPS YET PROBABLY ZERO AFRICAN ANCESTRY, and peep the bone straight hair
so your Mexicans are highly mixed argument is a fail
South America was a stronghold of pygmies when the Europeans arrived in Brazil.
The civilization of the pgymies or Black dwarfs is detailed in Harold T. Wilkens, Secret Cities of Old South America. Fawcett wrote:
quote: Although their only weapon is a club,they are extremely dangerous....Not only are the Aymores of Brazil negroid, but many of them are black, despite a constant mixture of Blood" (Wilkens, pg.111).
Wilkens notes
quote: Carlos Cuervo Marquez holds that the North Red American red race sprang from aboriginal blacks of South America. (pg.110).
As you can see the Native Americans in South America have been admixed with pgymies and SubSaharan Africans for thousands of years.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Dr Winters.. off course Mexicans are a mixed bunch whatever their original color,hair type and features, that's not the conversation we are having,Black Mexicans and other Native Americans exist both ancient and modern, but more about who they are where they came from because as far as I know,there are no ancient Native American with recent African genes, save for the shaky TB study posted on the previous pg, the If you don't mind pls share your links with us, hopefully peer reviewed.
Posted by IronLion (Member # 16412) on :
Anansi, that is how you got conned.
There are many native Americans with African Genes and African phenotypes.
The problem is that people like you and Lionese believe that those that test positive for African genes are slaves or descendants of slaves.
The Garifunas, the Seminoles, the Chickasaws, are Indiands that type for African genes.
Open your eyes and see....
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Bonampak420 (Member # 20156) on :
[ 03. June 2015, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by kdolo (Member # 21830) on :
'the racist mongoloid Indians'
Clyde, most of the Oklahoma Indians I have ever seen have looked like garden variety White people ...with tans...
My point is that the racism from these people is primarily Whites trying to prevent Blacks from enjoyig the benefits of Native status.
regular White racism....
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: 'the racist mongoloid Indians'
Clyde, most of the Oklahoma Indians I have ever seen have looked like garden variety White people ...with tans...
My point is that the racism from these people is primarily Whites trying to prevent Blacks from enjoyig the benefits of Native status.
regular White racism....
You're right. But mongoloid Indians had to have married these whites. The leaders of most of the Councils look ethnically white.
Mongoloid and Black native Americans have often had conflicts. In the beginning Black and Mongoloid Native Americans sold each other into slavery to provide the Americans and British with labor. After the Jamasee war in 1715, most of the Native American slaves came from the Black Choctaw, Cree, Chicasaw, Yamasee nations and etc. In this way they were able to deny the fact Black Native Americans ever existed. If not for the art and offical records dating back to this period Black Native Americans would still be invisible.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: 'the racist mongoloid Indians'
Clyde, most of the Oklahoma Indians I have ever seen have looked like garden variety White people ...with tans...
My point is that the racism from these people is primarily Whites trying to prevent Blacks from enjoyig the benefits of Native status.
regular White racism....
Let me tell you a story. I had an ISOP fellowship while I was earning my PhD. This Fellowship was suppose to be for minorities. All of the Michigan "Native Americans" who had the Fellowship were "white". Go figure?????
.
Posted by Quetzalcoatl (Member # 12742) on :
quote:Originally posted by ban violator Clyde Winters:
None of these journals are "peer reviewed". They are among the "open access" in which there is no pre-publication reviews and supposedly someone will "review" the paper. Winters has NO publication in quality peer-reviewed journals. He has citations but what he has contributed are "comments" that are published without review. Previously, I posted letters from all the journals confirming this statement. You can all check this by going to the journals to see that they were not reviewed either before or after publication. Don't be fooled.
[ 26. May 2015, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Quetzalcoatl (Member # 12742) on :
None of these journals are "peer reviewed". They are among the "open access" in which there is no pre-publication reviews and supposedly someone will "review" the paper. Winters has NO publication in quality peer-reviewed journals. He has citations but what he has contributed are "comments" that are published without review. Previously, I posted letters from all the journals confirming this statement. You can all check this by going to the journals to see that they were not reviewed either before or after publication. Don't be fooled.
[ 26. May 2015, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
"Peers" are not going to review historical fiction novels and that phony institute used to add "prestige," wouldn't the publishers be surprised to find its a defunct kiddie school (not even covering k-8 or 8-12) at best an "educational academy" never having more than a dozen 'students' but by no means an institute of science, technology, or the like.
Preacher: 1 + 1 = 11 Choir: Amen!
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
Modern Brazilian tribes: Bororo
Just like the Anglos and French have plenty of pics of black folks they slaughtered around the world, so do the Portuguese and Spanish. The Paleo Indians never left the Americas, they just got killed off in large numbers by the Euros.
Now some Afro-eccentric fool falsely claiming to be an Afrocentric 'scholar' is going to fabricate Fulani migration to S. Amer to be the founding fathers of these natives who are clearly 'Indians' not Africans.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
As for Clyde, I have numerous times posted here on ES that he is one link in my isnad but I owe him nothing from this day hence since he dings me for no reason I can think of other than his own insecurities.
=== Tukuler al~Takruri, the ardo ===
[ 26. May 2015, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: ausar ]
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl:
quote:Originally posted by ban violator Clyde Winters:
None of these journals are "peer reviewed". They are among the "open access" in which there is no pre-publication reviews and supposedly someone will "review" the paper. Winters has NO publication in quality peer-reviewed journals. He has citations but what he has contributed are "comments" that are published without review. Previously, I posted letters from all the journals confirming this statement. You can all check this by going to the journals to see that they were not reviewed either before or after publication. Don't be fooled.
These papers are articles not comments.
You don't know what you're talking about. Just about all the Genetics journals are Open Access, including: PLoS Jounals http://www.plosone.org/home.action ,
You are such a liar. Instead of talking about where my articles were published why don't you attempt to falsify the data therein.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Modern Brazilian tribes: Bororo
Just like the Anglos and French have plenty of pics of black folks they slaughtered around the world, so do the Portuguese and Spanish. The Paleo Indians never left the Americas, they just got killed off in large numbers by the Euros.
You need to read the literature. Non of these populaions are classified as paleoIndians. They are classified as mongoloid people who don't arrive in America until after 6k BP.
Cite a source that claims that these people are phenotypically African or Australian like the paleoamericans. .
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
You may want to check out my paper on the Africans who built the Mound cultures along the Mississippi River and etc.See:
None of these journals are "peer reviewed". They are among the "open access" in which there is no pre-publication reviews and supposedly someone will "review" the paper. Winters has NO publication in quality peer-reviewed journals. He has citations but what he has contributed are "comments" that are published without review. Previously, I posted letters from all the journals confirming this statement. You can all check this by going to the journals to see that they were not reviewed either before or after publication. Don't be fooled.
These papers are articles not comments. You don't know what you're talking about. Just about all the Genetics journals are Open Access, including: PLoS Jounals http://www.plosone.org/home.action ,
You are such a liar. Instead of talking about where my articles were published why don't you attempt to falsify the data therein.
.
The four you cite here are not peer reviewed prior to publication. There are "open access," which just means that you can read them for free, some are peer reviewed before publication- most of them are not reviewed before or after and the four above as are most of your "genetics" papers are in the no review category.
Your second point is like the ink of the octopus, designed to hide things,. Yes PLoS journals and others are open access but they are peer reviewed. You claim to have published in them But what you contributed were comments, not articles, and these are NOT reviewed ] Here is a letter from PLoS on their policy toward "comments" to articles, which what you sent in.
quote: Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 07:58:12 -0700 Thread-Topic: editorial policy From: "PLoS Genetics" <plosgenetics@plos.org> To: <bortiz@earthlink.net> Dear Bernard,
Thanks for your message – good question. Reader Responses are intended to be more informal and to encourage community dialogue. As such, they do not undergo peer review by our editors or by external referees (whereas correspondence is treated differently and is peer reviewed).
Instead, Reader Responses are reviewed by staff (to check they are not obscene, abusive, defamatory, libelous, or in some other way illegal or discriminatory; otherwise, we will post them). I hope this helps.
I have a number of these from other journals- which I have posted previously. Readers may check the status of Winters' publications themselves to see who is lying
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: You need to read the literature. Non of these populaions are classified as paleoIndians. They are classified as mongoloid people who don't arrive in America until after 6k BP.
Cite a source that claims that these people are phenotypically African or Australian like the paleoamericans. .
No Clyde they are categorized as the descendants of the PaleoIndians and no many of them are quite black or African/Aboriginal looking. Aboriginal is simply a term meaning oboriginal. The diversity of native populations is quite large with some who do indeed look very black and 'aboriginal' but of course you would deny it because you are promoting nonsense.
Aborigines in Asia do not all look alike. Aborigines in Australia have a distinct look. Pacific Islanders another, South East Asians Another and so forth. All those aboriginal populations do not look the same and all of them do not look like Africans either. Even you yourself have said this on other threads. What we are talking about is tropical adaptation which is the original adaptation of humans exiting Africa.
There are a range of features among native american populations and among them some of the aboriginal traits still exist.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: You need to read the literature. Non of these populaions are classified as paleoIndians. They are classified as mongoloid people who don't arrive in America until after 6k BP.
Cite a source that claims that these people are phenotypically African or Australian like the paleoamericans. .
No Clyde they are categorized as the descendants of the PaleoIndians and no many of them are quite black or African/Aboriginal looking. Aboriginal is simply a term meaning oboriginal. The diversity of native populations is quite large with some who do indeed look very black and 'aboriginal' but of course you would deny it because you are promoting nonsense.
Aborigines in Asia do not all look alike. Aborigines in Australia have a distinct look. Pacific Islanders another, South East Asians Another and so forth. All those aboriginal populations do not look the same and all of them do not look like Africans either. Even you yourself have said this on other threads. What we are talking about is tropical adaptation which is the original adaptation of humans exiting Africa.
There are a range of features among native american populations and among them some of the aboriginal traits still exist.
Cite a paper where they are classed with the paleoAmericans.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
South Brazilian Native Americans came from Melanesia. This is especially the Botocudos.
The Botocudos are not recognized as Paleoamericans or Paleoindians, they are descendants of Meleanesians and Melanesians are phenotypically Negroes. See: A.S. Malaspinas et al,, Two ancient human genomes reveal Polynesian ancestry among the indigenous Botocudos of Brazil. Curr Biol. 2014 Nov 3;24(21):R1035-7. doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2014.09.078. Epub 2014 Oct 23.
quote: Abstract
Understanding the peopling of the Americas remains an important and challenging question. Here, we present (14)C dates, and morphological, isotopic and genomic sequence data from two human skulls from the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil, part of one of the indigenous groups known as 'Botocudos'. We find that their genomic ancestry is Polynesian, with no detectable Native American component. Radiocarbon analysis of the skulls shows that the individuals had died prior to the beginning of the 19th century. Our findings could either represent genomic evidence of Polynesians reaching South America during their Pacific expansion, or European-mediated transport.
The Botocudo were a Native American tribe of Brazil. They were also called Aimoré (Aymore, Aimboré) .
The name Botocudo comes from the Portuguese term: botoque, a plug. This was an allusion to the wooden disks or tembetás worn in their lips and ears of people who belonged to these tribes
.
The Botocudo had many names for themselves. Some Boyocudos called themselves Nac-nanuk or Nac-poruk. The name Nac-nanuk or Nac-poruk means "sons of the soil".
Over the centuries the Botocudos disappeared.Paul Ehrenreich estimated their population at 5,000 in 1884. By April 1939, there was only 68 Botocudo alive in Eastern Brazil
Posted by DD'eDeN (Member # 21966) on :
alba.anu ~ alp.ainu/albanian/albino?
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: South Brazilian Native Americans came from Melanesia. This is especially the Botocudos.
The Botocudos are not recognized as Paleoamericans or Paleoindians, they are descendants of Meleanesians and Melanesians are phenotypically Negroes. See: A.S. Malaspinas et al,, Two ancient human genomes reveal Polynesian ancestry among the indigenous Botocudos of Brazil. Curr Biol. 2014 Nov 3;24(21):R1035-7. doi: 10.1016/j.cub.2014.09.078. Epub 2014 Oct 23.
quote: Abstract
Understanding the peopling of the Americas remains an important and challenging question. Here, we present (14)C dates, and morphological, isotopic and genomic sequence data from two human skulls from the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil, part of one of the indigenous groups known as 'Botocudos'. We find that their genomic ancestry is Polynesian, with no detectable Native American component. Radiocarbon analysis of the skulls shows that the individuals had died prior to the beginning of the 19th century. Our findings could either represent genomic evidence of Polynesians reaching South America during their Pacific expansion, or European-mediated transport.
The Botocudo were a Native American tribe of Brazil. They were also called Aimoré (Aymore, Aimboré) .
The name Botocudo comes from the Portuguese term: botoque, a plug. This was an allusion to the wooden disks or tembetás worn in their lips and ears of people who belonged to these tribes
.
The Botocudo had many names for themselves. Some Boyocudos called themselves Nac-nanuk or Nac-poruk. The name Nac-nanuk or Nac-poruk means "sons of the soil".
Over the centuries the Botocudos disappeared.Paul Ehrenreich estimated their population at 5,000 in 1884. By April 1939, there was only 68 Botocudo alive in Eastern Brazil
What I said was that the so called PaleoAmerican features never left. PaleoAmerican = black Aboriginal Asian/Australoid/Melanesian/Pacific Islander type features.
Those populations with those features still exist albeit in more remote areas of South and Central America.
And this is like only one of many threads over the years this has been discussed.....
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What I said was that the so called PaleoAmerican features never left. PaleoAmerican = black Aboriginal Asian/Australoid/Melanesian/Pacific Islander type features.
Those populations with those features still exist albeit in more remote areas of South and Central America.
And this is like only one of many threads over the years this has been discussed.....
That's why you're wrong. Cite one paper that class the contemporary mongoloid Native Americans with the paleoamericans. .
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: What I said was that the so called PaleoAmerican features never left. PaleoAmerican = black Aboriginal Asian/Australoid/Melanesian/Pacific Islander type features.
Those populations with those features still exist albeit in more remote areas of South and Central America.
And this is like only one of many threads over the years this has been discussed.....
That's why you're wrong. Cite one paper that class the contemporary mongoloid Native Americans with the paleoamericans. .
You are missing the point. I am saying those papers that state that the "African/Austrialian/Aborignal" features in Native Americans was erased is false. Those features are still there and never left. Actually you are saying it also but trying to associate it with recent African mixture.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Clyde's theories have been set since at least 1985. You're not going to change them
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: You are missing the point. I am saying those papers that state that the "African/Austrialian/Aborignal" features in Native Americans was erased is false. Those features are still there and never left. Actually you are saying it also but trying to associate it with recent African mixture.
LOL. Now you want us to believe you are more qualified than physical anthropologist to identify the paleoAmerican type!
Stop trying to spread this propaganda that the paleoamericans are related to contemporary mongoloid Native Americans.
.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person? Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
Chatters claims he was a paleoamerican. The paleoamericans were phenotypically African or Australian.
Originally Chatters thought they were Europeans, since his research into Naia he has come around. 12kya the paleoamericans carried the D haplogroup, which in reality is really an M haplogroup, namely M1. This is obvious when we look at the extract profile of Anzick man.
Anzick Provisional Extract, Es Haplogroup M M – discovered in prehistoric sites, China Lake, British Columbia – 2007 Malhi, Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M1a – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M1a1b – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes January 2015 – (1 M1a1b
M1a1e – USA – Olivieri, many Eurasian in Genbank
M1b1 – Anzick Pr ovisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M2a3 – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes January 2015 – (1 M2a3)
M23 – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913, Madagascar – Recaut and Debut, Madagascar Motif
M3 – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M30c – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M30d1 – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes January 2015 – (1 M30d1)
M51 – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M5b3e – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913
M7b1’2 – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913, Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes January 2015 – (1 M7b1’2)
M9a3a – Anzick Provisional Extract, Estes, September 2014, kits F999912 and F999913tes January 2015 – (7 D with no subgroup
As laymen we assume that when geneticist extract DNA, they automatically determinw what haplogroup the ancient skeleton carried, but as you can see from these provisional extractions the results are varied.
A few years ago I made a blanket statement in an article that there were no M haplogroups in America. One of the peer reviewers commented that there were M haplogroups in the Americas, and this statement was false. I had not found any literature on M groups in the Americas , so I was surprised to hear this. Some propagandists are upset about the provisional Anzick data because it supports the discovery of M at China Lake in Canada. Claiming the Native Americans belong to the D clade, is just a way of denying the presence of haplogroup M in the Americas.
Archaeologist do not like to talk about the fact that M clades were carried by Native Americans, because then you are able to link the paleoamericans and later groups to Africa.
The paleoamericans, c. 25-10kya were Khoisan. The Khoisan introduced the Solutrean culture into the Americas and Europe. The discovery of M haplogroups in the Americas is further support for my theory that the Khoisan spread L3(M,N) into Europe. See:
Looking at the Anzick extractions can show you how geneticist make the decision on what group a population belongs too based on their own ideology.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
The amazonians are mongoloid people who are descendants of pgymies and mongoloid people. They show some African phenotypical features--but they are classified as mongoloid.
.
Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
The amazonians are mongoloid people who are descendants of pgymies and mongoloid people. They show some African phenotypical features--but they are classified as mongoloid.
.
How can they be Africoid and Mongoloid at the same time? That contradicts what you said earlier that Mongoloids cant be African. Come on man be consistent and stop trying to follow the nonsense of Europeans. If there is "Africoid" in them then either it is the result of recent African mixture or it has been there since the beginning. And if it is something that has been there since the beginning then the anthropologists are lying in claiming that such Africoid features disappeared after later waves of so called "Mongoloids" reached America. But wait, those features can be found in Mongolia to this day, so again, that just shows how European anthropologists oversimplify the nature of human feature diversity. And you play right into it by claiming these are "Africans".
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
The amazonians are mongoloid people who are descendants of pgymies and mongoloid people. They show some African phenotypical features--but they are classified as mongoloid.
.
Clyde what is the evidence that Amazonians have African pygmy ancestry ?
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
The amazonians are mongoloid people who are descendants of pgymies and mongoloid people. They show some African phenotypical features--but they are classified as mongoloid.
.
Clyde what is the evidence that Amazonians have African pygmy ancestry ?
1. They live in areas which were formerly centers of Anu civilization.
2. They are small in stature
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
Dude, I wonder about the nasal apature of someone with these facial traits:
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
Dude, I wonder about the nasal apature of someone with these facial traits:
It appears that a multivariate analysis of skulls and cranial measurements related to contemporary Amazonian populations classify them as mongoloid. It would appear that just because someone has a wide nose and dark skin does not mean the skeletal remains of the individual will demonstrate negroid phenotypical traits.
From the literature I have read American mongoloid skeletal remains date to 4000 BC. This is only 6kya.
.
.
Posted by Quetzalcoatl (Member # 12742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
From the literature I have read American mongoloid skeletal remains date to 4000 BC. This is only 6kya.
.
.
6000 years ago IS 4000BC
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
Dude, I wonder about the nasal apature of someone with these facial traits:
I wonder about the extreme wideness of the face of these Olmecs heads
Compare to Malian sculpture
Female Figure with Four Children 12th–17th century Terracotta 35 x 21.5 x 18.5 cm (13 3/4 x 8 7/16 x 7 5/16 in.) Charles B. Benenson, B.A. 1933, Collection 2006.51.116 Geography: Made in Inland Niger Delta, Sahel, Mali Culture: Djenne Classification
When you look at the art and architecture of Mali you don't see similarities to Olmec culture
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The art of the Olmec is 3000 years old. At this time the Mande lived in the Fezzan and Mauretania at Dar Tichitt.The Olmec did practice the Mande religion.
Leo Wiener made three hypotheses:
1) The Mande founded the religious beliefs of the Olmec, Mayan and other Mexican religions groups.
2) The Mande language was a substratum language that influenced Mexican languages including Mayan.
3) That the Mande introduced the calendar to the Mexicans
Leo Wiener was sure that the Mande influenced Mexican religions. The Olmec religion or cult associations provide the best example of Mande: Malinke-Bambara cultural influences among the Olmecs. The best source of information on the Malinke-Bambara religion is G. Dieterlen (1957) Essai sur le religion Bambara . Dieterlen makes it clear that the Mande culture was transmitted within the Komow : traditional secret society of the Mande.
The two main deities of the Mande were Bemba and Faro. Bemba was the invisible Creator of mankind. Faro, was the visible god who was recognized as androgynous (male-female). The symbol of faro was twins. As a result, in traditional Malinke-Bambara society twins represented the two fold nature of Faro
We learn from the Dieterlen that the first Bambara-Malinke ancestors transformed into Birds and hyenas (Felines). This tradition led to the origin of the two major Mande cult associations Kuno (Bird) and Nama (Feline), gyo/jo ‘cult associations
The Nama (feline) initiatory society was organized to maintain order within society. The members of this jo were to insure ceremonial unity and defeat sorcery The leader of the Nama Jo , wear mask which combine totems of komo, horns and the mask represented immense spiritual power according to Zahan Dominique (1974), The Bambara .
The Komo was administered by sculptor-smiths. Their role was to guard society from people committing antisocial acts and protect people from malevolent spirits.
The leader of the Jo cult association was the Komo-tigi ‘chief of the komo’ . The Komo, teaches initiates ‘leadership’, self-sufficiency, military prowess and scientific knowledge.
The komo acculturated the Mande children. Thusly the children in the komo were called tigi-denw: ‘children of the tigi’ . The children often served as tigi-tuguw “carriers of the torches’.
The children belonged to the ntomo or n’domo . The ntomo association was charged with making the initiates “noble”.
And understanding of the traditional, pre-Islamic religion of the Malinke-Bambara allows us an intimate understanding of the Olmec religion.
The principal Olmec cult associations was that of the bird and the feline. This religious tradition of the Olmec, passed on to the Maya, are mentioned in the Book of Chumayel, which maintains that the three main cult associations that are suppose to have existed in ancient times were (1) the stone (cutters) cult, (2) the jaguar cult and (3) the bird cult. In lines 4-6 of the Book of Chumayel , we read that "Those with their sign in the bird, those with their sign in the stone, flat worked stone, those with their sign in the Jaguar-three emblems-".(Brotherston 1979).
The Olmec left testimony to this religious tradition in their art. These documents in sto ne indicate that the Olmec had to cult associations that of the Bird Mask and that of the Feline Mask. The Book of Chumayel, corresponds to the gylphs depicted on Monument 13 at La Venta .
. On Monument 13, at La Venta a personage in profile, he has a headress on his head and wears a breechcloth, jewels and sandals, along with four glyphs listed one above the other. The glyphs included the stone, the jaguar, and the bird emblems. Monument 13, at La Venta also has a fourth sign to the left of the personage a foot gylphs. This monument has been described as an altar or a low column.
The foot in Olmec is called "se", this symbols means to "lead or advance toward knowledge, or success". The "se" (foot) sign of the komow (cults) represent the beginning of the Olmec initiates pursuit of knowledge.
The meaning of Monument 13, reading from top to bottom, are a circle kulu/ kaba (the stone), nama (jaguar) and the kuno (bird). The interpretation of this column reading from left to right is "The advance toward success--power--for the initiate is obedience to the stone cutters cult, jaguar cult and the bird cult". The Jaguar mask association dominated the Olmec Gulf region.
In the central and southern Olmec regions we find the bird mask association predominate as typified by the Xoc bas relief of Chiapas, and the Bas Relief No.2, of Chalcatzingo. Another bird mask cult association was located in the state of Guerrero as evidenced by the humano-bird figure of the Stelae from San Miguel Amuco.
The religious orders spoken of in this stela are the Bird and Jaguar cults. These Olmec cults were Nama or the Humano-Jaguar cult; and Kuno or Bird cult. The leader of the Nama cult was called the Nama-tigi (see Nama chief Illustration 7 Stela No.5 Izapa) , or Amatigi (head of the faith). The leader of the Kuno cult was the Kuno-tigi (Kuno chief see Illustration 6 Stela No.5). These cult leaders initiated the Olmec into the mysteries of the cult.
Among the Olmecs this flame signified the luminous character of knowledge. The Kuno priest wears a conical hat(see Illustration No.6). The evidence of the conical hat on the Kuno priest is important evidence of the Manding in ancient America. The conical hat in Meso-America is associated with Amerindian priesthood and as a symbol of political and religious authority . Leo Wiener (1922, v.II: p.321) wrote that: "That the kingly and priestly cap of the Magi should have been preserved in America in the identical form, with the identical decoration,and should, besides, have kept the name current for it among the Mandingo [Malinke-Bambara/Manding] people , makes it impossible to admit any other solution than the one that the Mandingoes established the royal offices in Mexico".
Acculturation of children was an important part duty of the Olmec priesthood. As a result we find many examples of children being provided knowledge by the priest.
The Olmec child is very evident in Olmec art. To the Olmec childhood represent the primitive state of mankind, when man was pure and ignorant of nature. Thus the child in Olmec art represents the human being when he left his creator’s hands: uncircumcised and androgynous.
Adults respected children very much. This view is supported by the motifs on Altar No.5 of LaVenta. On this monument we see a personage emerging from the stone altar with the glyph po gbe ‘Pure Righteousness’ on his headdress. He is carrying a babe in his arms resting on his lap.
On the other side of the monument we see two personages, each with a different helmet style. These scenes suggest that the Olmec child was to learn wisdom, this is illustrated by the animated conversation between the child and the priest.
On the right-hand side we see a priest and a child again. This time the priest has a snake on his helmet. Instead of carrying the child on his lap in this scene, the child is carried on the personage’s side and wearing a jaguar mask. This indicates that once the child completed the initiation he was recognized a individual to be respected capable of giving advise to adults.
These examples from Olmec iconography make it clear that the Olmec religion is exactly the same as the pre-Islamic religion of the Malinke Bambara.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
Mande and Olmec Art share many of the same styles.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Olmec baby figures:
"Baby Figure," 12th–9th century B.C. Mexico; Olmec Ceramic, cinnabar, red ocher; H. 13 3/8 in. (34 cm) The Michael C. Rockefeller Memorial Collection, Bequest of Nelson A. Rockefeller, 1979 (1979.206.1134)
^^^peep the helmet
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Olmec baby figures:
"Baby Figure," 12th–9th century B.C. Mexico; Olmec Ceramic, cinnabar, red ocher; H. 13 3/8 in. (34 cm) The Michael C. Rockefeller Memorial Collection, Bequest of Nelson A. Rockefeller, 1979 (1979.206.1134)
^^^peep the helmet
These are not Olmec figures. These artifacts are called "Colonial Olmec" because they were made by people who adopted Olmec art styles and culture. They are usually dated 300-400 years after the Olmec had established their culture in the Olmec heartland.
Baby Olmec Figures
.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: These are not Olmec figures. These artifacts are called "Colonial Olmec" because they were made by people who adopted Olmec art styles and culture. They are usually dated 300-400 years after the Olmec had established their culture in the Olmec heartland.
. [/QB]
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
^^^ Clyde you just posted several of these period figures and compared them to Mande, come on
Ignacio Bernal coined the term "colonial Olmec" in 1969. He made it up
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: These are not Olmec figures. These artifacts are called "Colonial Olmec" because they were made by people who adopted Olmec art styles and culture. They are usually dated 300-400 years after the Olmec had established their culture in the Olmec heartland.
.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
^^^ Clyde you just posted several of these period figures and compared them to Mande, come on [/QB]
What about it? .
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: These are not Olmec figures. These artifacts are called "Colonial Olmec" because they were made by people who adopted Olmec art styles and culture. They are usually dated 300-400 years after the Olmec had established their culture in the Olmec heartland.
.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
^^^ Clyde you just posted several of these period figures and compared them to Mande, come on
What about it? . [/QB]
You used Ignacios made up term "colonial Olmec" to suggest that such figures are of a different mongolid race
Then you used the same figures to suggest a connection to Mande sculpture
come on Clyde
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Notice the figure on the right's______________________^^^^ similarity to >>>
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Olmec baby figures:
"Baby Figure," 12th–9th century B.C. Mexico; Olmec Ceramic, cinnabar, red ocher; H. 13 3/8 in. (34 cm) The Michael C. Rockefeller Memorial Collection, Bequest of Nelson A. Rockefeller, 1979 (1979.206.1134)
^^^peep the helmet
These figurines are not dated to 1200-900BC. They are called Los Bocas style. We don't know how old they are since they were bought on the black market.
quote: Wiki notes:
The term "Las Bocas-style" refers to a style of Olmec figurine allegedly found at the Las Bocas site. The style is defined by looted materials that may or may not have actually come from the Las Bocas site.
Credibility of Origin[edit] The term "Las Bocas-style" is based on a fallacy; the Las Bocas-style figurines were never connected to the actual Las Bocas site. They were only claimed to have been found on the site by those who sold them on the art market contemporaneously with the occurrences of looting at Las Bocas. With their advertised origins, the figurines received higher market prices and considerably more interest – consequentially, those who sold them may have been motivated to misrepresent the origins of artifacts that were possibly found at other sites. Because of the lack of contextual evidence to link the figurines with Las Bocas, and the high probability of improperly represented origins, the Las Bocas-style figurines cannot be attributed to the site of Las Bocas.[6]
Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Clyde what race is the PaleoAmerican Kennewick man of?
also what race is this Amazonian rainforest person?
Dude, I wonder about the nasal apature of someone with these facial traits:
It appears that a multivariate analysis of skulls and cranial measurements related to contemporary Amazonian populations classify them as mongoloid. It would appear that just because someone has a wide nose and dark skin does not mean the skeletal remains of the individual will demonstrate negroid phenotypical traits.
From the literature I have read American mongoloid skeletal remains date to 4000 BC. This is only 6kya.
.
.
I am not taking about Mali, I am talking about the Olmec. Let's stick to the topic, will you.
The Olmec resided in the Central Americas. Given the date and time that cranium you've posted makes no sense.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
A good example of the Malians in the North America are the Nanticokes. The Nanticokes were described by B.S Barton as very dark. This tribe of Black Native Americans formerly lived in the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware. They later settled in Wyoming, Oklahoma and Canada.
During the Revolutionary War, the Nanticoke sided with the British and many Nanticoke migrated to Canada, while others went into hiding or moved out West. By 1867, the Nanticoke moved to Kansas with the Lenape. There chiefdoms were called Monie, Wicomoco and Manokin (,Mandekan ?).
In 1741-51, J.C. Pyrlaeus collected the Numerals of the Nanticoke. This was before the Revolutionary War. Around this time the Conoy people joined their tribe.
The numerals collected by Pyrlaeus when they were compared to other numerals by Murray in 1873, they did not match numerals in any known Indian language. Brinton found that they were identical to Malinke-Bambara numerals.
These numerals make it clear the Nanticoke were descendants of the Malian explorers.
Below are Nanticoke at the Lenape-Nanticoke annual celebration.
.
.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
. Ironlion, how many more Muurish, communities were existing in the U.S. when Europeans got here.
Posted by kdolo (Member # 21830) on :
interesting indeed .....
anybody ever do DNA analysis on these people ....
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
That means the Nanticoke are not Native Americans
Any popualtion that recent to America is far from being native.
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
That means the Nanticoke are not Native Americans
Any popualtion that recent to America is far from being native.
The mongoloids came after the paleoamericans so they are not Native Americans.
The Paleoamericans were Africans so Africans have been in America longer than the mongoloids. Also remember they married Indians so they would be Native Americans.
.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
That means the Nanticoke are not Native Americans
Any popualtion that recent to America is far from being native.
The mongoloids came after the paleoamericans so they are not Native Americans.
The Paleoamericans were Africans so Africans have been in America longer than the mongoloids. Also remember they married Indians so they would be Native Americans.
.
That doesn't change the fact that at all that if the Nanticoke were 14th century Moors from Africa then the Nanticoke are not Native American
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
That means the Nanticoke are not Native Americans
Any popualtion that recent to America is far from being native.
The mongoloids came after the paleoamericans so they are not Native Americans.
The Paleoamericans were Africans so Africans have been in America longer than the mongoloids. Also remember they married Indians so they would be Native Americans.
.
That doesn't change the fact that at all that if the Nanticoke were 14th century Moors from Africa then the Nanticoke are not Native American
Hahahaha. You're funny. Now you are suppose to be the person who can decide how long you must live in a place before you become Native.
Your arguments are groundless. The paleoamericans were Aricans. The mongoloids don't reach the Americas until 94,000 years after the Khoisan, Anu and Contemporary Sub-Saharan Africans had already settled North America .
The African presence in North America and beyond is much older than that of the Mongoloids. You can write a million words it does not change the fact Africans were here first.
This is silly. The Nanticoke were matriarchial, before they became Christians.
This means that the many of the females the Muurs married were Black Native American for them to remain so dark.
You're just upset that Ironlion was right about many Native Americans being Muurs.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
That means the Nanticoke are not Native Americans
Any popualtion that recent to America is far from being native.
The mongoloids came after the paleoamericans so they are not Native Americans.
The Paleoamericans were Africans so Africans have been in America longer than the mongoloids. Also remember they married Indians so they would be Native Americans.
.
That doesn't change the fact that at all that if the Nanticoke were 14th century Moors from Africa then the Nanticoke are not Native American
Hahahaha. You're funny. Now you are suppose to be the person who can decide how long you must live in a place before you become Native.
No scholar in thr world would call Moors from Africa who migrated to America in the 14th century "Native Americans"
that is pure silliness
Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Nanticoke make it clear that they are "Muurs".
The nanticoke have two origin traditions. The first is that formerly lived in the Central U.S. and migrated eastward 300 years before the coming of the Europeans to avoid incessant warfare. The interesting thing about this tradition is that it would place their origin in the Central U.S., to around the time Abubakari sailed to the Americas.
Another, Nanticoke tradition traces their descent to "Muurish" sailors who were shipwrecked on the Maryland shore. See:
That means the Nanticoke are not Native Americans
Any popualtion that recent to America is far from being native.
The mongoloids came after the paleoamericans so they are not Native Americans.
The Paleoamericans were Africans so Africans have been in America longer than the mongoloids. Also remember they married Indians so they would be Native Americans.
.
That doesn't change the fact that at all that if the Nanticoke were 14th century Moors from Africa then the Nanticoke are not Native American
Hahahaha. You're funny. Now you are suppose to be the person who can decide how long you must live in a place before you become Native.
No scholar in thr world would call Moors from Africa who migrated to America in the 14th century "Native Americans"
that is pure silliness
Hahaha. I would.
Africans were the first Americans. And they have always been traveling to Americas for the past 100,000 years.
.
Posted by Archeopteryx (Member # 23193) on :
Many think that similarity in objects and buildings invented by different peoples mean they must have been spread from point A to B through diffusion or migration. That is often not the case. There are many examples of everything from stone axes to megalith tombs to pyramids that were independently invented by people who never had any contact with each other, similarity in patterns and cloth. Sometimes though the time gap between the examples can be very big, other times they can be nearly contemporary
Posted by Archeopteryx (Member # 23193) on :
In the 1830s the painter George Catlin traveled extensively in North America, but also in South America, and depicted the Native American population. He left a legacy of hundreds of paintings. Those painting do not show any Africans or "Moors", they show, as expected, Native Americans. Native Americans have their descendancy from Asia, and they are neither "White" or "Black". They are a group of their own.
I recommend a look at Catlins paintings. He was a man who actually saw the people he painted with his own eyes.
From the givens above, Nanticoke appear to have a Maryland/Delaware Original American base that overwhelmingly absorbed Eastern Hemisphere incomers. What's at work? Real world example of founder effect and drift at work in a specific locale. Afr & Eur founded lineages among Amers who took them on as mates. Later influxes of Afrs & Euros w/o accompanying Amer influx.
For me even if they loose Original American languages these kind of new metis communities/tribes/internal nations are whatever they claim to be and primary 'Indian' identity cannot be withheld from them. And why should they shy from pride in any of their progenitors or not use those pregenitors identities along side their native one?
quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: In the 1830s the painter George Catlin traveled extensively in North America, but also in South America, and depicted the Native American population. He left a legacy of hundreds of paintings. Those painting do not show any Africans or "Moors", they show, as expected, Native Americans. Native Americans have their descendancy from Asia, and they are neither "White" or "Black". They are a group of their own.
I recommend a look at Catlins paintings. He was a man who actually saw the people he painted with his own eyes.
We know there was Africans prior to 1872 on the continent of the Americas. Does that make them the Ameridians, no that not, but they were there already. This is why people are able to show images of Africans phenotypes by painters who made art form before 1872. Or is it now "symbolic"?
Crispus Attucks (c.1723 – March 5, 1770) was an American stevedore of African and Native American descent.
Posted by uraeus (Member # 23199) on :
I meant to post the "El negro" Olmec head. Anyways, look this Olmec head up before you go screaming about how black folk weren't in the Americans for thousands upon thousands of years.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by uraeus: I meant to post the "El negro" Olmec head. Anyways, look this Olmec head up before you go screaming about how black folk weren't in the Americans for thousands upon thousands of years.
we have dozens of threads on Olmecs, many by Clyde Winters who started the thread we are on now
quote:Originally posted by uraeus: I meant to post the "El negro" Olmec head. Anyways, look this Olmec head up before you go screaming about how black folk weren't in the Americans for thousands upon thousands of years.
we have dozens of threads on Olmecs, many by Clyde Winters who started the thread we are on now
Ties in with black people being able to claim Indigenous to the Americas. Especially if they still practice Indigenous cultures. No matter if part of their ancestry came here 500 years.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[/QB]
