CANARY ISLANDERS. On February 14, 1719, the Marqués de San Miguel de Aguayo made a report to the king of Spain proposing that 400 families be transported from the Canary Islands, Galicia, or Havana to populate the province of Texas.
By June 1730, twenty-five families had reached Cuba and ten families had been sent on to Veracruz before orders from Spain to stop the movement arrived. Under the leadership of Juan Leal Goraz, the group marched overland to the presidio of San Antonio de Bexar, where they arrived on March 9, 1731. The party had increased by marriages on the way to fifteen families, a total of fifty-six persons. They joined a military community that had been in existence since 1718. The immigrants formed the nucleus of the villa of San Fernando de Béxar, the first regularly organized civil government in Texas. Several of the old families of San Antonio trace their descent from the Canary Island colonists. María Rosa Padrón was the first baby born of Canary Islander descent in San Antonio.
On March 9, 1731, fifty-five Canary Islanders arrived at Béxar, becoming the first municipality in the Spanish province of Texas
The last phase of the strategy was to establish a civil settlement or presents in Texas. To that end, on February 14, 1719, the Marqués de San Miguel de Aguayo proposed to King Philip V of Spain that 400 families be transported from the Canary Islands, Galicia, or Havana to populate the province of Texas. His plan was approved, and notice was given the Canary Islanders to furnish 200 families; the Council of the Indies suggested that 400 families should be sent from the Canaries to Texas by way of Havana and Veracruz.
By June 1730, twenty-five families had reached Cuba and ten families had been sent on to Veracruz before orders from Spain to stop the movement arrived.
Under the leadership of Juan Leal Goraz, ten families started out from the Canary Islands. Within a month after the group arrived at Cuatitlán in September of 1730, the number increased by marriages to fifteen families and four single men, a total of fifty-six persons. This is evident from a comparison of the list of the families taken at Cuatitlán, September 9, 1730 with the official list taken just before they left Cuatitlán, November 8, 1730. At Saltillo in the state of Coahuila a new list and inventory was taken on January 31, 1731. They were provided with an escort of 10 soldiers to the Presidio de San Juan Bautista and from there they where escorted to the presidio of San Antonio de Béxar by Francisco Dubal, where they arrived at eleven o’clock in the morning on March 9, 1731.
The Alvarez Travieso and the Arocha families apparently joined the original party of settlers after their arrival at Cuatitlán. A new and final list was made after arrival at San Antonio in order to confer upon them the title of nobility, as first settlers and upon their descendants, the title of Hijos Dalgos or Hidalgos, mandated and so honored by the king of Spain, Philip V, each family head could use the term “Don” before his name, denoting his title. Today, there are many individuals and families who are descendants from these original Canary Island colonists.
Herodotus called the Garden of Hesperides, Homer the Elysian Fields and Pliny the Fortunate isles. Christopher Columbus visited them in 1492. The name Canaries is derived from canis, the Latin word for "dog." Early explorers named them for the many dogs they found there. The isles share an eternal spring climate but they differ dramatically amongst each other.
The original inhabitants of the Canaries were a race known as the Guanches, a name derived from guan, meaning man or people, and achinch, meaning white mountain in an obvious reference to Tenerife's snow-capped Mount Teide. The natives lived a Stone Age existence of shepherding and very rudimentary agriculture. They buried their dead and, in the case of chieftains, mummified the, much like the ancient Egyptians. In Tenerife, Bencome, the mencey or leader of the tribe, fiercely resisted the conquistadors with his flint exes and slings, while in Gran Canaria the ruling guanarteme, Semidán, welcomed the European strangers and established truces.
Modern contact with the Canaries began to develop in the Middle Ages as sailors from peninsular Spain arrived to plunder the isles of their orchids, which were used to make dye, and of their inhabitants, who were enslaved. Conquest in earnest only began with the Norman explorer Jean de Béthencourt who, in 1402 , claimed Lanzarote on behalf of his feudal lord Henry III of Castile and who later became king of the islands.
One of the few remaining possessions of Spain, the Canary Islands lie in the Atlantic Ocean about 60 miles (95 kilometers) from the northwest coast of Africa. Their total area is 2,796 square miles (7,242 square kilometers). The Canaries are divided into two provinces of Spain Las Palmas and Santa Cruz de Tenerife. They comprise seven principal islands Tenerife, Grand Canaria, La Palma, Hierro, Gomera, Lanzarote, and Fuerteventura and several smaller uninhabited ones. They were called Fortunatae Insulae (Fortunate Islands, or Isles of the Blest) in ancient Roman legends.
During the settlement of Texas in the early 1700’s, the Spanish government recognized the need to both Christianize and civilize the Indians of Texas. They also realized they would need to keep the French from encroaching on Spanish territory. They developed a three-fold strategy. First, was establish a series of missions to bring Christianity to the Indians. Next, protect those missions by a series of presidios or forts and finally, populate the territory with civil settlements loyal to New Spain. The presidio of San Antonio de Béjar was established on the San Antonio River in 1718. That same year, the mission of San Antonio de Valero was moved from the Rio Grande to the vicinity of the presidio, completing the first two stages of the three-fold strategy. Béxar, as it was known, was populated only by a small group of solider's and their few families. A civil government did not exist at this time.
Mari Tamez and the Canary Islands Descendants Association are in the early stages of planning and fundraising to implement five large, bronze statues near Main Plaza commemorating the Canary Island history in San Antonio. Tamez, president of the 175-member organization, and Dr. Alfonso Chiscano, honorary member of the organization and a native of the Canary Islands, are leading the $750,000 effort to implement statues of a Native American person, a Spanish presidio soldier, a Spanish friar, and one male and one female Canary Islander in front of the Bexar County Courthouse. _____________________________
Isleño
sleño (Spanish: [izˈleɲo], pl. isleños) is the Spanish word meaning "islander." The term was applied to the Canary Islanders to distinguish them from Spanish mainlanders known as "peninsulars" (Spanish: peninsulares). The Isleños are the inhabitants of the Canary Islands, and by extension the descendants of Canarian settlers and emigrants to present-day Louisiana, Texas, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, and other parts of the Americas. In these places, the name, which formerly referred to a general category of people, now refers to the specific cultural identity of Canary Islanders or their descendants throughout Latin America and in Louisiana, where they are still called isleños. Another name for Canary Islander in English is "Canarian." In Spanish, an alternative is canario or isleño canario.
The term isleño is still used in Latin America, at least in those countries which had large Canarian populations, to distinguish a Canary Islander from a peninsular (continental Spaniard). By the early 19th century there were more people of Canarian extraction in the Americas than in the Canary Islands themselves, and the number of descendants of those first immigrants is exponentially larger than the number who originally migrated. The Americas were the destination of most Canarian immigrants, from their discovery by Europeans in the 15th century until the 20th century, when substantial numbers went to the Spanish colonies of Ifni, Western Sahara and Equatorial Guinea in Africa during the first half of the century. Beginning in the 1970s, they began to emigrate to other European countries, although emigration to the Americas did not end until the early 1980s.
The cultures of Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, and Uruguay partially have all been influenced by Canarian culture, as have the dialects of Spanish spoken in all but Uruguay. Although almost all descendants of Canary Islanders who emigrated to the Americas from the 16th to the 20th century are incorporated socially and culturally within the larger populations, there remain a few communities that have preserved at least some of their ancestors' Canarian culture, as in Louisiana, San Antonio in Texas, Hatillo, Puerto Rico, San Carlos de Tenerife (now a neighborhood of Santo Domingo) in the Dominican Republic and San Borondón in Peru.
Fidel Castro: “Para nosotros los únicos isleños en el mundo son los canarios” "For us the only islanders in the world are the Canaries"
Manuscript with the signature of Fidel Castro addressed to his friend Francisco González Casanova in 1986. DA
(translated) :
FIDEL Castro
Dear Paco:
I have no idea if these lines will arrive in time for the book, or if they will remain in your file. The work of these tense months prevented me from responding before, as I would have liked, to your request. Now, at last, I have been able to see the book, which seems to me a very fair homage to you, to your life, to everything you have done and do for the friendship between the Canary Islands and Cuba; and also, of course, a successful synthesis of the close historical links that unite our peoples.
It happens to all of us, apparently, that when we reach a certain moment we feel the need to look back and update our accounts: what we have achieved, what we lack. When that moment arrives, we see that all that gives us more satisfaction is what we have dedicated ourselves with true generosity and disinterest.
Your case - an irrevocable support for the Revolution since the days of the Moncada until today - is a singular example. I could even say that it is a sign of tenacity and firmness of very "island" criteria. But it is, above all, an expression of feelings and traditions that have been carved over centuries, and are deeply rooted in the historical memory of our peoples.
according to a recent study by Fregel et al. 2009, in spite of the geographic nearness between the Canary Islands and Morocco, the genetic heritage of the Canary islands male lineages, is mainly from European origin. Nearly 67% of the haplogroups resulting from are Euro–Eurasian (R1a (2.76%), R1b (50.62%), J (14%), I (9.66%) and G (3.99%)). Unsurprisingly the Spanish conquest brought the genetic base of the current male population of the Canary Islands. Nevertheless, the second most important haplogroup origin is Northern Africa. E1b1b (14% including 8.30% of the typical berber haplogroup E-M81), E1b1a and E1a (1.50%), and T (3%) haplogroups are present at a rate of 33%. Even if a part of these "eastern" haplogroups were introduced by the Spanish (they are well represented in Spain), we can suppose that a good portion of this rate was already there at the time of the conquest.[18][19] According to the same study, the presence of autochthonous North African E-M81 lineages, and also other relatively abundant markers (E-M78 and J-M267) from the same region in the indigenous Guanche population, "strongly points to that area [North Africa] as the most probable origin of the Guanche ancestors". In this study, Fregel et al. estimated that, based on Y-chromosome and mtDNA haplogroup frequencies, the relative female and male indigenous Guanche contributions to the present-day Canary Islands populations were respectively of 41.8% and 16.1%
Venezuela By Elizabeth Gackstetter Nichols, Kimberly J. Morse
^^^ If you go to the link for this book on Venezuela the chapter title is
"Social Classes and Ethnicity, Who is Venezuelan: Race and Class in Venezuela " p 185
They are describing the thousands of immigrants from the Canary Islands who went to Venezuela as "white" ( page 191) Before that page the describe the other groups in colonial era Venezuela
Indigenous Venezuelans ( p 187)
Slaves and Free, African and Mixed Race in the Colonial Era (p189)
Apparently these Canary Islander immigrants were perceived as per the social construct, "white" although they also had some berber ancestry
Where ever the source of your information is coming from can't be right unless whiteness meant something different,the UV index of the Canary islands varies between 6-11 for 9 months of the year where 3 months is lower than that so these people couldn't be white unless mixture or albinism caused it. http://hikersbay.com/climate/spain/canary?lang=en Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thereal: Where ever the source of your information is coming from can't be right unless whiteness meant something different,the UV index of the Canary islands varies between 6-11 for 9 months of the year where 3 months is lower than that so these people couldn't be white unless mixture or albinism caused it. http://hikersbay.com/climate/spain/canary?lang=en [/QB]
In 1402, the Castilian conquest of the islands began, with the expedition of French explorers Jean de Béthencourt and Gadifer de la Salle, nobles and vassals of Henry III of Castile, to Lanzarote. From there, they conquered Fuerteventura (1405) and El Hierro. Béthencourt received the title King of the Canary Islands, but still recognised King Henry III as his overlord.
The Canarian population includes long-tenured residents and new waves of mainland Spanish immigrants, as well as Portuguese, Italians, Flemings and Britons. Of the total Canarian population in 2009 (2,098,593) 1,799,373 were Spanish and 299,220 foreigners. Of these, the majority are Europeans (55%), including Germans (39,505), British (37,937) and Italians (24,177). There are also 86,287 inhabitants from the Americas, mainly Colombians (21,798), Venezuelans (11,958), Cubans (11,098) and Argentines (10,159). There are also 28,136 African residents, mostly Moroccans (16,240).[64]
^ Mural paintings made in 1764 by Carlos Da Acosta, and they represent scenes of the Conquest of the Island: the appearance of the Virgin of Candelaria to the Guanches, the surrender of the Guanches Menceyes before Alonso Fernández de Lugo, and the presentation of them before the Court of the Catholic Monarchs. This staircase is covered with an octagonal roof, Portuguese style in its floral decoration.
Ayuntamiento de La Laguna. C/Obispo Rey Redondo, 1. 38201 La Laguna Tenerife, Canary Islands
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Of course that the Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans.
Many descendants of Scandinavian Vandals and Alans from north of Iran, that did not left North Africa, or went to Canary Islands after their defeat, still living in North Africa, particular on regions of Atlas Mountain and Libya. There, you can find not only Alans and Vandals descendants but, Eastern Pakistanis as well, which arrived in the region about 1000 years ago.
Nowadays, many of them are the result of racial interbreed with local native Africans (blacks, Arabs, and unnamed. However, many of them still maintaining their original culture, by wearing their colorful tribal garments and jewelry, as they wore in their native lands, and the lands they settled in Europe before invaded South Europe and North Africa. You can see females with the same colorful traditional tribal garments in Pomerania, Denmark and Sweden, North of Iran, Baltic countries, as well in regions of north of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
But in Sweden and Denmark, their kings still officially used the name "Vandal" in their nobility titles - "Rex Vandalorum" until 1970s They changed their title, because they wanted to improved their past barbarian image.
Actually, Vandals, and Alans, including their migrants from Canary Islands descendants are all over the ex- Spanish colonies in South and Central America as well. Somehow, their Amerindians mixed race offsprings became political and Elite classes in these countries after interbreed with local Amerindian royal families members.
Now, the group of Canary Islanders that live in Texas, they added a "black hat" to their traditional garments, because they arrived with spelled Jewish from Spain and Portugal,during the "barbarian and cruel activities of the Christian Inquisition".
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
lioness,
I am posting the link of Daily Mail with a scanned picture of the Canary Island mummy. You can see how curly is her hair under the scan. You may publish her both pictures on this forum, to let "no doubt" that she was an African mixed race" That the best picture I had seen of her after scanning.
About Fidel Castro name, which his full name is Fidel Alejandro Castro Ruz. His father's Angel María Bautista Castro y Argiz, was born in Láncara close to Lugo, em 1875, region of Northwest of Spain, which was close to an area inhabited by an ancient pre-Roman Black people called Vascones, which their writing system, was an admixture of SubSaharan Nsibidi, and Phoenician alphabet , as you can see on their earlier ancient coins. Later on, the Vascones were joined by Hebrews, and Sephardi Jews, which settled in the north of Spain region, before and after Roman arrival. Since then, the region changed names, divided into kingdoms, of Navarre, Castile and Aragon, nowadays Spain.
Fidel Castro paternal granfather Manuel de Castro y Núnez, the father of Angel Maria Bautista Castro y Argiz, born in the same Lancara region in 1800s, as well, so did his wife, Fidel Castro's grandmother - Antonia Argiz y Fernandez. Both were poor farmers. Manuel de Castro y Nunes, Fidel Castro's grandfather ancestors were ancient black Vascones, Hebrews and Sephardi Jews, and possible Phoenician. Fidel Castro paternal grandmother's ancestors were Greek, and Visigoth. Therefore, they could not be from the Canary Islands
Fidel Castro's father Angel María Bautista Castro y Argiz, to escape poverty, attended a Military school in Spain, and became Spaniard. He arrived in Cuba from Spain to fight against Cuba Independence in 1896. After he was defeated, he decided to stay in Cuba, to became a farmer. As a farmer in Cuba, he and his partially Canarian wife, became very rich by semi-slaved in their farms of tobacco and sugar cane, black people from Haiti. He and his wife went down in history as an extremely cruel and brutal to black Haitians workers.
Actually, in accordance to Lebanon News Page, he was also a descent of Lebanese Mozarab. This explain his cruelty against his semi-slaved Haitians. Lebanese until today are semi-slaving Haitians in their sugar cane plantations in Saint-Domingue. Recently, a Christian Libanese born in Brazil called Michel Temer which became Brazilian president, wanted to legally reestablished “SLAVERY” in Brazil as a favor to his friends, which own GMO soy, and corn plantations in Brazil.
However, Fidel Castro's mother Lina “Ruz” Gonzalez, married to Angel Maria Baustista Castro y Argys, in Cuba, may be partially of Canarian ancestry, because of her middle name “Ruz”in Spanish , and in English is “Rus” is originally from Scandinavian region, the same region of the Vandals, which migrated from North Africa to Canary Islands. Her last name “Gonzalez” is of Portuguese “Fulani”, which originally written in Portuguese is - Gonçalves.
Actually, the Vandals and Rus people, are the same people from Scandinavian region called “Roslagen” region in Sweden. Their group diverged when some of them, migrated towards Kiev, establishing Kiev Rus, and others migrated towards Central Europe, invaded Rome, and became Vandals. By the time, the Vandals migrated to Canary Islands from North Africa, they didn't called themselves Vandals, possible they called themselves Rus, as the same they called themselves when they invaded Spain.
Posted by Lion (Member # 22807) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
Tell me a country where there are a large number of white people with curly hair. Clearly this woman in the picture has curly hair due to the mixture with black people.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
A young Nicole Kidman with her hair in it's natural state, she has had her straightened on and off since being a child
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Not all Blacks people living in the Colonial regions of Venezuela and Colombia were discriminated because of their black color. In fact, in the Spanish colonial region many rich Black Moors owned black slaves, as well Marrano Jewish. Black Moors were part of governing and plantation classes. But, I must admit that there were more Jewish than Blacks in charge of Spanish Colonies, and African slave owners.
The first people to arrived to govern Spanish, and Portuguese colonies were Sephardi Jews and Black Moors, converted to Christianity. Actually, the Sephardi Jews, divided the entire South America lands among themselves, which were called "Sesmarias". They were called "Marranos". They converted to Christianity to escaped tortures, death persecutions, and confiscation of their wealthy by the Spanish Monarchy during the Inquisition.
There were many important Black Moors, in the Spanish colonies in Venezula and Colombia. One of them was José Padilla - he belonged to Iberian Aristocracy. Here is part of his history in Venezuela and Colombia.
Now...thousands of Canarians and Spanish people left South America to Canary Islands, and Spain during the great recession of the Cold war, which severe austerity measures imposed by United States in their countries, caused massive unemployment, and impoverishment of everybody, including the upper and middle classes. Soon after they left, native Amerindians and the mixed race of Amerindians with Blacks and Jews, took over their countries.
Few of them, were president Evo Morales da Bolivia, and an African descent president of Venezuela called Hugo Chavez, among many others that still in power. Unfortunately, in Brazil, who took over, is a stupid and cruel Lebanese vampire called Michel Temer.
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Another Hero of Colombia and Venezuela Independence war beside Admiral Jose Prudencio Padilla Lopez was Colonel Juan José Rondón. Actually, there are many more Black Moors Heroes, to mention...
quote: "They are on the tectonical plate of Africa, so they are Spanisch territory in Africa - just like St. Pierre and Miquelon is French territory in North America. There are lots of examples. The Canary Islands are also located nearer to Africa (~200 km) than to Europe (~1000 km). But yes, politically they are definetly European, just like the French examples in America show." Same indigenous people as Maurantania, Mali, Sudan, Algeria South Egypt etc Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Plate tectonics is the theory that Earth's outer shell is divided into several plates that glide over the mantle, the rocky inner layer above the core.
tectonic plates are irrelevant to human biology, culture and settlement
Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans
Author links open overlay panelRicardoRodríguez-Varela1211TorstenGünther3MajaKrzewińska1JanStorå1Thomas H.Gillingwater4MalcolmMacCallum4Juan LuisArsuaga25KeithDobney678CristinaValdiosera29MattiasJakobsson3AndersGötherström1LinusGirdland-Flink110 Show more https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2017.09.059
Highlights • The first genome-wide data from the Guanches confirm a North African origin
• The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers
• Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
Summary The origins and genetic affinity of the aboriginal inhabitants of the Canary Islands, commonly known as Guanches, are poorly understood. Though radiocarbon dates on archaeological remains such as charcoal, seeds, and domestic animal bones suggest that people have inhabited the islands since the 5th century BCE [1–3], it remains unclear how many times, and by whom, the islands were first settled [4, 5]. Previously published ancient DNA analyses of uniparental genetic markers have shown that the Guanches carried common North African Y chromosome markers (E-M81, E-M78, and J-M267) and mitochondrial lineages such as U6b, in addition to common Eurasian haplogroups [6–8]. These results are in agreement with some linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological data indicating an origin from a North African Berber-like population [1, 4, 9]. However, to date there are no published Guanche autosomal genomes to help elucidate and directly test this hypothesis. To resolve this, we generated the first genome-wide sequence data and mitochondrial genomes from eleven archaeological Guanche individuals originating from Gran Canaria and Tenerife. Five of the individuals (directly radiocarbon dated to a time transect spanning the 7th–11th centuries CE) yielded sufficient autosomal genome coverage (0.21× to 3.93×) for population genomic analysis. Our results show that the Guanches were genetically similar over time and that they display the greatest genetic affinity to extant Northwest Africans, strongly supporting the hypothesis of a Berber-like origin. We also estimate that the Guanches have contributed 16%–31% autosomal ancestry to modern Canary Islanders, here represented by two individuals from Gran Canaria.
_________________________________
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Back on White Venezuelan in the Colonial Era, book paragraphs posted by lioness.
We must be very careful with what many Authors write about ancient, high middle age, middle age, and colonial periods. Many American and European writers classify every black or dark skinned person from those periods living in Europe and Colonies as slaves, or slaves descendants. What is absolutely rubbish!
Take as an example, the dark skinned Colombian Independence Hero, Admiral José Prudencio Padilla López which is considered by many writers as African slave descendant. What is not truth. He was the son of Andres Padilla, which was descent of a black Castilian Padilla aristocratic family. Today are many Padilla last name in Spain and ex colonies, but not when he born i 1700s.
In fact, his father was descent of a black Castilian Aristocratic family, which one them, a black woman called "Maria Padilla" became a Castilian Queen, wife of Peter of Castile.
Maria Padilla and King Peter, had three daughters. Beatrice, Constance born in 1354, Isabella in 1355 and a son, Alfonso, Castile Kingdom crown-prince. All of them were dark skinned.
Two of their dark skinned daughters married the sons of Edward III, King of England. Isabella married Edmund of Langley-1st Duke of York, Constance, married John of Gaunt-1st Duke of Lancaster. That's why you can see so many dark skinned in the high middle ages among Britain monarchy. They became some of the British Black Nobility members, beside other Black Royal Spanish and Portuguese married into Kingdom's of France, and Italy.
In fact, Islenos from Canary Islands migrated to Brazil as well. One of them was the famous Jesuit called Jose de Anchieta, which found many colleges in Brazil and educated Amerindians. The Jesuits, also educated African slaves princess and princes descents of African Queens and Kings which were killed by rival tribes in Africa, and their children were kidnapped and sold as slaves to Portuguese and Spanish slave traders.
The black Queen Maria Padilla history, is cerebrated in Brazil by the African spiritualist religion segments of Cadomble, Quimbanda, and Umbanda all over Brazil. Black and Mulatta religious women, dressed as Maria Padilla, in elegant garments,jewelry,drink champagne, and receive bouquet of flowers from their partners, which represents her husband King Peter during their religious celebrations.
In South of Brazil - State of Santa Catarina, where Islenos from Canary Island and Spain migrated, they join Blacks, and Gypsies (South Asian people from Pakistan which migrated to Europe, Brazil and North Africa)to remembered Queen Maria Padilla, which used to practiced black magic with her Jewish friends in the Castile Kingdom.
Below is a video, of this celebration. It is a long video, but, it has an enormous historical value. It is a simple set of high middle age Castile Court.
Notice that one of the man which is dancing with Queen Maria Padilla female impersonator, is wearing a Black Jacket which has in the back, a large united design of a Spanish and Portuguese Christian order, crossed with the "Dogon" Priesthood religious symbol. It is a reminder, of the relationship between Dogon and Vandal peoples, and the Dogon's help to Vandals migration to Canary Island.
You must also notice as well, how they celebrated the event. In the beginning of the celebration, a light skinned man, bow down to a group of religious black males. Until today, descendants of Vandals of Canary Islands, living in Brazil, shown their gratitude for a help event which happened over 1500 years ago....
The celebration in honor to the Black Queen Maria Padilla happen once a year, in the nice and organized village they live, in South of Brazil. On a very civilized way...No guns, no fights, and no badness. Every body enjoy happiness, friendship, while drink champagne, beer, and other drinks and enjoy lots of fresh foods. All free...
Other segments of Afro Brazilian religion also celebrated their Queen Maria Padilla as a " Maria Molambo", mostly in the Northeast of Brazil, in the state of Bahia. Their celebration is related to Queen Maria Padilla distant relatives from Africa, which were sold as slaves to Brazil.
African Royal family members, which arrived as slaves in Brazil, escaped and formed their own kingdoms, which were called by the Portuguese "Quilombo", from the Bantu language Kimbundu. Today, it became a racist term named "Mulambo", a white pejorative name for poor African slaves descents, which don't have money to dress themselves well, and are uneducated. Contrary to the Mulattas Queen and Princess of colonial Brazilian Court. But, followers of Afro religion, laugh in defiance of the term given to them, as they practicing their celebration to their ancient Black European and African Queens.
Point is Lioness. The indigenous people of the Canary Island will be very similar to peoples of the same geographic latitude like Mali, South Egypt, Mauritania etc. In other words, they are dark people closely related to Berbers of North Africa.
Pale skin will not be synonymous to the Canary Islanders. Fortunately that is how science works.Any person who claims they are from the Canary Islands and is pale in skin..."is lying!!!!"
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Point is Lioness. The indigenous people of the Canary Island will be very similar to peoples of the same geographic latitude like Mali, South Egypt, Mauritania etc. In other words, they are dark people closely related to Berbers of North Africa.
Pale skin will not be synonymous to the Canary Islanders. Fortunately that is how science works.Any person who claims they are from the Canary Islands and is pale in skin..."is lying!!!!"
wikipedia:
quote:
The islands may have been visited by the Phoenicians, the Greeks, and the Carthaginians. King Juba II, Caesar Augustus's Numidian protégé, is credited with discovering the islands for the Western world. According to Pliny the Elder, Juba found the islands uninhabited, but found "a small temple of stone" and "some traces of buildings".[42] Juba dispatched a naval contingent to re-open the dye production facility at Mogador in what is now western Morocco in the early first century AD.[43] That same naval force was subsequently sent on an exploration of the Canary Islands, using Mogador as their mission base.[citation needed]
The Romans named the individual islands Ninguaria or Nivaria (Tenerife), Canaria (Gran Canaria), Pluvialia or Invale (Lanzarote), Ombrion (La Palma), Planasia (Fuerteventura), Iunonia or Junonia (El Hierro) and Capraria (La Gomera).
When the Europeans began to explore the islands in the late Middle Ages, they encountered several indigenous peoples living at a Neolithic level of technology. Although the prehistory of the settlement of the Canary Islands is still unclear, linguistic and genetic analyses seem to indicate that at least some of these inhabitants shared a common origin with the Berbers of Tamazgha.[44] The pre-colonial inhabitants came to be known collectively as the Guanches, although Guanches had been the name for only the indigenous inhabitants of Tenerife
According to the research carried out in studying the Guanche mummies, these burials were used at least from the 3rd century until the conquest of the Canary Islands.
It is a person of masculine sex only for its excellent state of preservation. Is believed to date from the twelfth and thirteenth centuries AD, and belongs to a man between 30 and 34 years and, according to experts, would be the best Guanche preserved mummy in the world. __________________________________________________
^ That is AD, very recent That is not old enough to to relate the mummies to a period long enough to assume they are biologically adapted to the Canary islands
It is unknown how long humans have been on the island or if the people that the Europeans found there in 1402 were related to the first inhabitants.
quote: Extract from the Natural History of Pliny the Elder
Pliny the Elder (AD 23 - 79) was a Roman soldier and administrator. He was a tireless collector of information, to the extent that he was killed whilst trying to observe an eruption of Mt Vesuvius at close quarters. His Natural History is a compilation of over 20,000 'facts' derived from over 2,000 earlier texts, covering subjects from astronomy to zoology. This makes it one of the most important sources of ancient knowledge and beliefs. The extract below (Book 6, paragraph 37) is the most complete classical description of the Canary Islands - though its difficult to relate much of the description to any modern map ! The principal source of information is Juba II, who was king of the Roman Protectorate of Mauretania in North Africa, and sent an expedition to explore the Canary Islands.
'Some people think that beyond the islands of Mauretania lie the Isles of Bliss (Canaries), and also some others of which Sebosus before mentioned gives not only the number but also the distances, reporting that Junonia (La Palma) is 750 miles from Cadiz, and that Pluvialia (El Hierro) and Capraria (La Gomera) are the same distance west from Junonia; that in Pluvialia there is no water except what is supplied by rain; that the Isles of Bliss are 250 miles WNW from these, to the left hand of Mauretania (Morocco), and that one is called Invallis (Tenerife ?) from its undulating surface and the other Planasia (Gran Canaria ?) from its conformation, Invallis measuring 300 miles round; and that on it trees grow to a height of 140 ft. About the Isles of Bliss Juba has ascertained the following facts; they lie in a southwesterly direction, at a distance of 625 miles sail from the Purple Islands, provided that a course be laid north of due west for 250 miles, and then east for 375 miles; that the first island reached is called Ombrios (El Hierro), and there are no traces of buildings upon it, but it has a pool surrounded by mountains, and trees resembling the giant fennel, from which water is extracted, the black ones giving a bitter fluid and those of brighther colour a juice that is agreeable to drink; that the second island is called Junonia, and that there is a small temple on it built of only a single stone; and that in its neighbourhood there is a smaller island of the same name, and then Capraria, which swarms with large lizards; and that in view from these islands is Ninguaria (Tenerife ?), so named from its perpetual snow, and wrapped in cloud; and next to it one named Canaria (Gran Canaria), from its multitude of dogs of a huge size (two of these were brought back for Juba). He said that in this island there are traces of buildings; that while they all have an abundant supply of fruit and of birds of every kind, Canaria also abounds in palm-groves bearing dates and in conifers; that in addition to this there is a large supply of honey, and also papryus grows in the rivers, and sheat-fish; and that these islands are plagued with the rotting carcasses of monstrous creatures that are constantly being cast ashore by the sea.'
^ no mention of people
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Point is Lioness. The indigenous people of the Canary Island will be very similar to peoples of the same geographic latitude like Mali, South Egypt, Mauritania etc. In other words, they are dark people closely related to Berbers of North Africa.
Pale skin will not be synonymous to the Canary Islanders. Fortunately that is how science works.Any person who claims they are from the Canary Islands and is pale in skin..."is lying!!!!"
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
I guess you didn't understand my last post
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:
1402
“The four men whom they carried away were young and beardless, and had handsome faces. They wore nothing but a sort of apron made of cord, from which they hung a number of palm or reed fibres of a hair's-breadth and a half or two hairs'-breadth, which formed an effectual covering. They were un- circumcised. Their long light hair veiled their bodies down to the waist and they went barefooted. The island whence they were taken was called Canary, and was more populous than the others
Pierre Bontier and Jean Le Verrier, Le Canarian or Book of the Conquest and Conversion of the Canarians in the year 1402 by J. De Béthencourt, ed. translated for the French by Richard Henry Major (Hakluyt Society, 1872)
Gadifer de La Salle (Sainte-Radegonde, 1340 –1415) was a French knight and crusader of Poitevine origin who, with Jean de Béthencourt, conquered and explored the Canary Islands for the Kingdom of Castile. Accompanying the expedition were Brother Pierre Bontier, a Franciscan monk of Saint-Jouin-de-Marnes who later officiated at Lanzarote, and Jean le Verrier, a priest who was later installed at Fuerteventura as vicar in the chapel of Our Lady of Bethencourt. Bontier and Le Verrier served as historians of the expedition.
Posted by Thereal (Member # 22452) on :
I don't see what you're trying to say,the nanban painting has depictions of black folks a 100 years after Columbus supposedly explored the world and depiction of blacks goes as far back as Greece and Rome if you believe Africans in those areas are "recent" plus Benjamin Franklin added his 2 cents on how "colored" Europe was.
24. Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
The problem with lioness, is her analytical comprehension, which I had noticed is based on paragraphs of European books, of almost everything she debates.
She also has problems to understand societies hierarchical systems of the Canary Islands by the time European arrived in the region in 1400s, by mostly basing herself on European factual accounts from books written in 1800s
She's completely disregard, or perhaps is her lack of knowledge of Canary Islands, and Subsaharan Paleolithic and Neolithic histories. So far, she didn't proved otherwise.
In fact, the first peoples to inhabited Canary Islands left their history engraved on local rocks. Their engraved art patterns are the "same" Paleolithic and Neolithic circular asymmetrical design done by the Khoisan in Namibia, and linear symmetrical design done by the Bantu people Mbo, from Congo, nowadays living in Cameroon.
Both khoisan and Mbo people Rock arts are found in Morocco as well, from where they crossed to Canary Islands on ancient times, living there by the time of Vandal's arrival. But, I do not disregard the possibility of Phoenicians first, then Arabs settled in Spain, visited Canarian Islands in the past.
I also noticed that you people are suffering from "obsessive compulsive disorder", by posting the same pictures over...and over.. again. Hopefully, you people are living in padded rooms...
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans
Author links open overlay panelRicardoRodríguez-Varela1211TorstenGünther3MajaKrzewińska1JanStorå1Thomas H.Gillingwater4MalcolmMacCallum4Juan LuisArsuaga25KeithDobney678CristinaValdiosera29MattiasJakobsson3AndersGötherström1LinusGirdland-Flink110 Show more https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2017.09.059
The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers
• Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
we generated the first genome-wide sequence data and mitochondrial genomes from eleven archaeological Guanche individuals originating from Gran Canaria and Tenerife. Five of the individuals (directly radiocarbon dated to a time transect spanning the 7th–11th centuries CE) yielded sufficient autosomal genome coverage (0.21× to 3.93×) for population genomic analysis. Our results show that the Guanches were genetically similar over time and that they display the greatest genetic affinity to extant Northwest Africans, strongly supporting the hypothesis of a Berber-like origin. We also estimate that the Guanches have contributed 16%–31% autosomal ancestry to modern Canary Islanders, here represented by two individuals from Gran Canaria.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Again. Ancient(and indigenous) Canary Island/ers are on the same latitude as inhabitants in Mali, Southern Maghreb South Egypt etc. I am not sure what this European(who is possibly lying) saw. Because ethe aDNA collected from Canary Islanders(live data) proved they were dark skin. Look at their DNA results. Europeans lie. I just found out that Columbus may have never existed. He is a composite character probably created by the European elite. . Lies written by Europeans is nothing new.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Also don’t forget the Canary Islanders carried yDNA R1b “BEFORE” European conquest or colonization!!!! Where do you think the R1b came from 1000miles away in Iberia or 100 miles away from West Africa? The Canary Islanders did NOT carry the derived form of the major pigmentation genes. All white Europeans who claim they are native to the Islands are liars and imposters!!
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Again. Ancient(and indigenous) Canary Island/ers are on the same latitude as inhabitants in Mali, Southern Maghreb South Egypt etc.
Again, there is no evidence of habitation in the canary Islands to be old enough to correspond biologically to it's latitude
Furthermore Pliny reported that when Juba II went there in 1st century AD there was nobody living there, just ruins
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Also don’t forget the Canary Islanders carried yDNA R1b “BEFORE” European conquest or colonization!!!! Where do you think the R1b came from 1000miles away in Iberia or 100 miles away from West Africa? The Canary Islanders did NOT carry the derived form of the major pigmentation genes. All white Europeans who claim they are native to the Islands are liars and imposters!!
It just posted a chart showing the DNA of Pre-European Canary Islanders and there is no R1
-------------------- Ignoring data you are just another person in denial - lioness
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
By Lioness "Again, there is no evidence of habitation in the canary Islands to be old enough to correspond biologically to it's latitude" = LIE!!
"Furthermore Pliny reported that when Juba II went there in 1st century AD there was nobody living there, just ruins"=LIE!!
"It just posted a chart showing the DNA of Pre-European Canary Islanders and there is no R1"=LIE!!
You people can't help yourselves. Compulsive liars.
My Response - by Lioness "Again, there is no evidence of habitation in the canary Islands to be old enough to correspond biologically to it's latitude" -" Juba II went there in 1st century AD there was nobody living there, just ruins" lol!
You answered your own question. SMH. That is the problem with you Europeans you believe your own lies even when it makes absolutely no sense.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
If you did not get it "ruins" is evidence of Habitation. Maybe they ran to the hills when they saw the white man arriving. Who knows? But they were there.
You Europeans and your lies and delusion. R1b was in Africa BEFORE colonial times. It is possibly of African origin that is why no genetic comparison of African R-M269 and European version has never been done!! The Lying Europeans don't want it out there. Lol!
Quote from Fregel et al " Congruently, the European R-M269 haplogroup was already the most frequent in the historical sample (42.9%). R-M269 reaches 60% in the Iberian peninsula [35] but is found at a low frequency in NW Africa (4–6%), and seems to have been introduced there from Europe in historical times [17]. Its frequency in the extant Canary population (53.2%) is similar to that found in the Iberian Peninsula, pointing to a mainly European origin for the present-day male pool in the Canaries [5]. The fact that a similar frequency has been found in the historical sample, again points to a strong European replacement of the male indigenous pool since the early conquest period. Surprisingly, R-M269 was also found in the indigenous sample in a moderate frequency (10%). Its presence in the indigenous people could be explained in two ways: (a) R-M269 was introduced into NW Africa in prehistoric not historical times, or (b) the presence of this marker in the aborigines was due to a prehispanic European gene flow into the indigenous population. As NW African R-M269 chromosomes showed close STR-similarity to the Iberian ones [17], pointing to recent contacts between both regions, the second option appears more plausible."
Again if you did not get it. R1b-M269 does NOT equal a depigmented European. Pigmentation and phenotype is determined by geography. Indigenous Canary Islanders are dark, look at their geographic location. Look at their genotype for pigmentation(pre-historical). They are black. Like peoples at the same geographic latitude. Mali, Maurantania, west Sahel to Red Sea. Those white people claiming to be Canary Islanders are liars!!!
Do you want to understand why I believe R1b is of African origin? I am absolutely sure mtDNA H1/H3 is African but I was on the fence with R1b-M269. When G. Busby et al stated that there is no longitudinal cline and provided evidence/data and then added there is no latitudinal cline and said "no data provided". I did a cart wheel in my office after reading that. I knew Busby was busted. Lol! He knew but would not provide the data. Lying Europeans!!!
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
You know I can prove everything I post. EVVVVVEEERRRRYTHING!!!!!! Put up or shut up.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
If you post another quote quoting an article but no mention of the title of the article or link I'm deleting the whole post.
Above you quote the following article and below I will quote some more from it
Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European
Rosa Fregel*1, Verónica Gomes2,3, Leonor Gusmão2, Ana M González1, Vicente M Cabrera1, António Amorim2 and Jose M Larruga1
Background: The origin and prevalence of the prehispanic settlers of the Canary Islands has attracted great multidisciplinary interest. However, direct ancient DNA genetic studies on indigenous and historical 17th–18th century remains, using mitochondrial DNA as a female marker, have only recently been possible. In the present work, the analysis of Y-chromosome polymorphisms in the same samples, has shed light on the way the European colonization affected male and female Canary Island indigenous genetic pools, from the conquest to present-day times.
Samples used in this study were excavated by different authorized archeological teams. The material ceded to perform molecular analyses consisted, in all cases, of teeth without fractures. Whenever possible, teeth were directly taken from their mandible alveolus. A total of 643 teeth corresponding to 493 different individuals were analyzed. This material belonged to different indigenous burials sampled from six of the seven islands: Fuerteventura (13 teeth from 10 individuals), Gran Canaria (230 teeth from 115 individuals), Tenerife (45 teeth from 39 individuals), Gomera (62 teeth from 52 individuals), Hierro (44 teeth from 44 individuals) and La Palma (43 teeth from 38 individuals).
^^ what they are calling "indigenous" is relative. It means " who the Europeans found at a given location at a given point in time"
The above says 17th–18th century remains.
However the Spanish conquered the Island in 1402.
Do I have to continue at this point ???
They colonized the islands, built palaces and produced sugar cane and wine there.
Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans
The five individuals with the highest autosomal genome coverage (0.213 to 3.933) were directly radiocarbon dated at the Svedberg Laboratory (Uppsala University) (Figure S1B) and span approximately 400 calendar years from the 7th to the 11th centuries CE (Table 1).
^^^ Here we have a more recent article an instead of 17th and 18th century remains we have remains which are truly pre-European conquest from the 7th to the 11th centuries CE. No haplogroup R detected
Again what they are calling "indigenous" in the article you posted is relative. It means " who the Europeans found at a given location at a given point in time" and NONE of these remains is nearly old enough to have represented a population living there long enough to be biologically adapted to that region.
The islands were visited by the Phoenicians, the Greeks and the Carthaginians prior to the Europeans
wiki:
According to Pliny the Elder, an expedition of Mauretanians sent by King Juba II (d. 23 CE) to the archipelago visited the islands, finding them uninhabited, but noting ruins of great buildings.When King Juba, the Roman protegé, dispatched a contingent to re-open the dye production facility at Mogador (historical name of Essaouira, Morocco) in the early 1st century,] Juba's naval force was subsequently sent on an exploration of the Canary Islands, using Mogador as their mission base. The name Islas Canarias is likely derived from the Latin name Canariae Insulae, meaning "Islands of the Dogs", a name that was applied only to Gran Canaria. According to the historian Pliny the Elder, the Mauretanian king Juba II named the island Canaria because it contained "vast multitudes of dogs of very large size". According to Pliny the Elder, Juba found the islands uninhabited, but found "a small temple of stone" and "some traces of buildings"
A variety of theories regarding the origins of pre-colonial Canarians explain them by the hypothesis of a more recent immigration. Some scholars (mainly from the University of La Laguna, in Tenerife) defend the theory that the Canarian populations are Punic-Phoenician in origin. Professor D. Juan Álvarez Delgado, on the other hand, argued that the Canaries remained uninhabited until 100 BCE, when Greek and Roman sailors began to explore the area. In the second half of the 1st century BCE, King Juba II of Numidia abandoned North African prisoners on the islands, who eventually became the pre-Hispanic Canarians. If the first inhabitants were abandoned prisoners, this explains, according to Álvarez Delgado, their lack of navigational acumen.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
I gave the author's name, readers should not be lazy. Fregel et al.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
As I said you trickster Europeans can't help with your lying. READ THE PAPER Lionesss!!!! SMH
Quote "Calibrated radiocarbon dating was performed in the Beta Analytic Radiocarbon Dating Laboratory (Miami). At least two samples for site were analyzed. Aboriginal remains were ***CLEARLY**** pre-conquest *****for all the analyzed islands: Tenerife (2210 ± 60 to 1720 ± 60 BP), Gomera (1743 ± 40 to 1493 ± 40 BP), Hierro (1740 ± 50 to 970 ± 50 BP) and Gran Canaria (1410 ± 60 to 750 ± 60 BP) [33]. Although the Fuerteventura and La Palma [59] materials were not directly C-14 dated, ceramic types coexcavated with the remains indicate that they were also prehispanic and not older than 1000 years BP."
Yes R1b-M269 was present in Canary Islands PRIOR to the Spanish conquest or arrival. Samples were dated to around 200-500 AD. READ THE PAPER!!!
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
I can back-up and prove everything I post. EVVVEERRRYYYTHIIINNNG!!!!!! I can expose all the lies you Europeans spew from your mouth. That dysfunctional gene(WTXX?) have you clueless. Can't help yourselves. He! HE!HE! "Eurasians"....Ha!HA HA!
What does this all prove? What I have saying all along. There is no race. Europeans are a sub-set of Africans. European genes originated in Malawi or points further south in Africa. Europeans are depigmented Africans. All the DNA evidence emerging confirms that. There is no "Eurasian" genes and never any "back migration" and these researchers know this. That is why they spin and/or leave out data. ...eh...correction ....most of them do that. Their aim? To delude themselves they are special. They are not! Africans were the first man and they will always be the first man.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
If you don't get it, The Aborigine Canary samples are dated over 1000years BEFORE modern Spanish arrival and these were black people carry R1b-M269. We know they were black based upon their pigmentation genes. And based upon their latitudinal position they should be black like other Africans at the same latitude.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Samples were dated to around 200-500 AD. READ THE PAPER!!!
You are referring to people, the earliest who existed 200 AD
You would have to refer to a person who existed much earlier than that to establish that a people lived were biologically adapted to that island
When were the Canary island first inhabited? You don't know. So far you found somebody there who dates back to 200 AD.
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
It seems to me, that many white and brown contemporary people living in North Africa, and Spain, are promoting the idea the white Guanches were original natives of Canary Islands to protect their claim that white people were original and the first to inhabited North Africa. All that bullshit, is because the region is controlled by Europeans and Arabs and Turks, which don't want to loose their invaded territories.
I want they to explain why the oldest mummy found in Africa, on Wadi Tashwinat region - North Africa-Libya, was of an "Negroid" male child which predated Egyptian mummies for over a thousand years. The child was wrapped in plants and animal skin, as the same the oldest Guanche mummies. Another interesting factors, are that the oldest mummies found in the Canary Islands, were looted, taken to Europe, and are no longer available to the public...
Now, I don't know if the earliest Guanche's mummies were destroyed, or sold to Europeans, which during the Middle Ages, used to "ate mummies dried fleshes and bones" as medications.....While antibiotic in ancient Nubia and Kush kingdoms was developed thousands of years earlier...
That's how developed and smart was white Arabs, and white European people, which now, want to prove they were first everywhere, the smartest people in the world, and want to take to themselves the entire planet Earth, by exterminating all other peoples as they are doing since they left their caves, not too far ago...
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
White people did not come from caves. Will you guys stop the pseudo science nonsense!!! Modern White Europeans are not related to ancient black Europeans like La Brana. La Brana, KOS14 etc was related to Melanesian, Onge(Black Asians). These people did retreat to caves and reemerged white. Stop the nonsense. Yes! Yes, they are trying to delude themselves and the world that they are the center of the universe but that is expected since they have controlled they world for the last 200-500years. Conquerors make the rules and write your history. We know it is a lie. But they will try their best to convince the world of their lie. That's how it works. But based upon what is happening in "3rd world and developing nations" this is not going to play out as they want . Even within their own camp there are some honest white people who understand this is not about them(white people) but this is about OUR species and what to do about this planet we live on. The good thing is, Africans had a 160,000 years evolutionary head start!!! Ask the Kenyans. Lol!
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
WTF are you talking about Lioness. You said the aborigines were dated AFTER colonial period, I said you are LYING, and posted excerpts from the study showing they were definitely unadmixed aborigines not only BEFORE supposed Spanish contacts in 15century AD but dated to 200AD!!! So WTF?! Take your schooling and shut the ...up. R1b-M269 may have an African origin. I am still not 100% sure until someone does a deep dive on the haplogroup between continents. But all the data emerging suggest that. R1 originated in Africa since siblings YDNA P and Q is found in Africa. But I suspect the R1b-M269 mutation may have occurred in a land mass now under water between "continents". "Europe a continent" another lie!! Lol!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Samples were dated to around 200-500 AD. READ THE PAPER!!!
You are referring to people, the earliest who existed 200 AD
You would have to refer to a person who existed much earlier than that to establish that a people lived were biologically adapted to that island
When were the Canary island first inhabited? You don't know. So far you found somebody there who dates back to 200 AD.
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
xyyman, who are you?
Topic open by lioness on 28 April, 2010 02:00 AM Where were Caucasians first in the world?
Posted by Clyde Winters on 28 April, 2010 09:11 AM
The origin of whites lie in the Caves of the Caucasus mountains. This is why Europeans in the Quran are called the People of the Cave.
It was from here that whites came from the bowels of the earth after the tectonic events of 2000 BC. By 1300BC, the Caucasians, led by the Hittites began to advance from Anatolia into Europe and the Middle East.
Between 1500-500 BC, Caucasians began to exterminate Blacks in Europe, North Africa, India and much of the Middle East and replace them.
The Egyptians called these people the People of the Sea.
In conclusion the original home of the Caucasians was the caves of the Caucasus mountains. They were let out of the caves by tectonic events that weakend Black civilizations after 1500BC to such an extent as to make the Black civilizations in Europe and elsewhere, open for invasion and genocide.
Now...I disagree with Mr. Winters, that white people originated in the Caucasus mountains, as well he's new theory that Khoisan people became white after segregated themselves into caves. Really? So..they entered the caves, and then, they emerged, white, straight blondish hair, and long nose?
Both theory does not make any sense to me. In my opinion White people evolved from Proboscis monkey. Actually, it is a large monkey, about the size of Orangutan, which recently was added as human ancestors by European geneticists. Both are from Indonesia. They live side by side, in the same region. Very interesting is that Proboscis Monkey's offsprings born with dark color,actually, they born black, and in the first month or less, of life, they turned white, with reddish facial color and their nose gradually turned long and reddish.
Now, how could it be, if in accordance to European theory, Europeans became white because of lack of sun luminosity and Vitamin D? Proboscis monkeys, are whites, from an Indonesia Island called Borneo, which the Equator line passed on middle of it?
Cold weather made human nose longer? really? So why white mongoloids from Mongolia and North China, living in low temperatures, very cold weather still have flat nose?
I am sick and tired of old European theories. I will not be surprised if in few years, Proboscis monkey will be added as human ancestors, as they did to Orangutan.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
^Siiighhhh! SMH
Did you finish high school? Any type of understanding of science? If you are sick and tired of Eurocentric lies and deception I understand that. But Don't go making up a bs hypothesis on the origin of modern Europeans and caves and shyte. It does more harm to AfroCentrics because they comes across as ignorant and stupid. As an pigmented person I use Science that will correct the lies. "Name calling" is not going to do it.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Linda Fahr,
I know the the Spanish Language of the Americas comes from immigrants from Andulacia and the Canary Islands. You spoke of these people having their own histories. Where are there histories written down? it can be in English or Spanish language, does not matter to me.
A little off topic ----)
Does the term moreno when referring to African Americans, have any hidden meaning besides having the color of the Moors?
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Now, how come European did not live in caves by the time of African civilizations, if until today, many of them still living in their "traditional sod habitat" carved into mountain side in the Scandinavian region?
Is sod houses an innovation from their former caves habitat or not?"
By the way...who do you think built troglodyte habitat in Tunisia? Have you see who live in those troglodyte homes? Are European descendants aren't them? Is that true, that those caves started to built about 800 years ago???
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Linda Fahr,
I know the the Spanish Language of the Americas comes from immigrants from Andulacia and the Canary Islands. You spoke of these people having their own histories. Where are there histories written down? it can be in English or Spanish language, does not matter to me.
A little off topic ----)
Does the term moreno when referring to African Americans, have any hidden meaning besides having the color of the Moors?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: WTF are you talking about Lioness. You said the aborigines were dated AFTER colonial period, I said you are LYING, and posted excerpts from the study showing they were definitely unadmixed aborigines not only BEFORE supposed Spanish contacts in 15century AD but dated to 200AD!!! So WTF?! Take your schooling and shut the ...up. R1b-M269 may have an African origin. I am still not 100% sure until someone does a deep dive on the haplogroup between continents. But all the data emerging suggest that. R1 originated in Africa since siblings YDNA P and Q is found in Africa. But I suspect the R1b-M269 mutation may have occurred in a land mass now under water between "continents". "Europe a continent" another lie!! Lol!
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Samples were dated to around 200-500 AD. READ THE PAPER!!!
You are referring to people, the earliest who existed 200 AD
You would have to refer to a person who existed much earlier than that to establish that a people lived were biologically adapted to that island
When were the Canary island first inhabited? You don't know. So far you found somebody there who dates back to 200 AD.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: As I said you trickster Europeans can't help with your lying.
This is a blanket statement on a group of people. The sources you use to argue your points as being are also European and that contradicts your statements on Europeans. I am not European but I don't allow this type of blanket statement in the forum. If I hear that type of thing again in the forum there will be consequneces
I made a mistake about the samples not being pre-Spanish because the repeatedly talked about 17th and 18th century in that open access paper you mentioned. Like in this chart
I have since seen other people in forums get confused about the samples in this paper. They don't have charts which correlate to the earlier dates not do they indicate what haplogroups are associated with which sample. Maybe that is available in a supplement somewhere but you will have to find it because I can't
However human remains on the islands are not old enough to establish a human population old enough to establish them being adapted to the environment of the Canary Islands, therefore discussing latitudes is irrelevant to the human remains being discussed
In the 1st century Pliny said Juba II king of the North African Roman client state Mauretania ( not Mauritania with an "I") had an expedition to the Canaries and found dogs but no people only ruins.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Modern White Europeans are not related to ancient black Europeans like La Brana.
Yet you have said the following many many times:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
Europeans are depigmented Africans!!
Never mind that because La Brana was reported as belonging to to haplogroup C-V20. Haplogroup C1a2 (V20) has been discovered in the remains of Palaeolithic people in Czech Republic (30,000 years ago), Fu, Qiaomei; et al. (2016). "The genetic history of Ice Age Europe". And Belgium (35,000 years ago), and the Sunghir archaeological site near Vladimir, Russia.
However the 7,000 year old La Brana remains have absolutely nothing to do with the article I posted or the open access article you posted. Haplogroup C was not found in either of those articles on the Canary Islands
I don't know what you are foaming at the mouth about. I posted a 2017 article which cites pre-Spanish remains and it said
The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers
Of the Y-DNA all E clades that originate in Africa
why the hell are you complaining?
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Red White, and Blue Christian,
Spanish language is originally called "castellano" or "casteliano" language from Castile region, which is located in North and Central of Spain and not Andalusia which is located on south of Spain.
The majority of people which arrived on Spanish America colonies were from Castile, not from South Spain. They were white Visigoth.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Linda Fahr: xyyman, who are you?
Here are some quotes with links to the threads where he said them
To the newbies. You have to forget what you learned. Forget the visuals, forget what your perception of what an African looks like or a European should look like. Follow the genetic data, follow the science. Forget the modern visuals. The data don't lie. There is no deny modern Europeans are depigmented Africans. That is undeniable. That is clear now. So the follow-up question is can humans morph that quickly? Can humans adapt to their environment in such a short space of time? And why? Does the environment change the genes or the genes adapt to the environment?
So they are admitting Europeans are "depigmented" Africans!!!! So they are mimicking xyyman. They are admitting depigmentation took place recently even AFTER the Bronze Age.
Cacausoids were always in Africa. ...Europeans entered Africa relatively recently. Caucasoids entered Europe from Africa!....
I maintain that kinky hair is a recent adaptation...
The “gradation pattern “ shows an African origin of de-pigmentaion for both SLC45A2 and SLC24A5. Both genes are found throughout SSA. Africans have a higher variability in promoter regions of these genes. Sources cited.
there is growing evidence that Bantu South Africans have started to depigment just as the Khoi-San. It labeled as OCA4
.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman:
I maintain that kinky hair is a recent adaptation
.
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
Then why do the Latin Americans not speak exactly like Julio Iglesias and pronounce the "z" like a "th" and use a "s" sound like the southerners?
Vivo en Nueva York aqui con mis vecinos hispanoparlantes. Ellos vienieron desde Mexico, Republic Dominicana, Borinquen, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras y Argentina.
Tienen muchos nombres Arabes como Omar, Fatima etc.
Preguntare' mis vecinos y amigos sobre esta en el futuro tambien. Gracias.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian: Then why do the Latin Americans not speak exactly like Julio Iglesias and pronounce the "z" like a "th" and use a "s" sound like the southerners?
Vivo en Nueva York aqui mis vecinos hispanoparlantes.
Spanish language in the Americas
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Red, White, and Blue + Christian, lol...
It is not hispanoparlantes. The correct word in Spanish is "Hispanohablantes. Parlar, is an Italian verb=to speak in English.
I am wondering who didn't finished High School...
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
Lioness! Lioness! Lioness! Tsk! Tsk! tsk! SMH
"European" , ok you are not one (wink! Wink!)
Anyways. I too got confused by the term "pre-Hispanic" and the discussion on dating. I read the paper several years ago so I knew I was right, but I second guessed myself when you mentioned it and went to a deep dive to confirm. Apology accepted.
1. I said there are SOME honest Europeans 2. Consequences? I did not use the label Albino. I said European. 3. Apology accepted. You should know by now I back up what I post. I don't blow smoke out by exit hole. 4. On Adaptation - That is the problem with you Europeans. I believe your own BS. First Off their were structure indicating some form of civilization and system. Second., obviously these were North Africans in terms of language and culture and obviously similar phenotype. Not to mention they carried some autosomal SSA ancestry and haplogroups. Fregel et al. FYI 5. As I said. Take notes when I post and shut up.
As Swenet say...take another "L"
------------- Quote by Lioness "This is a blanket statement on a group of people. The sources you use to argue your points as being are also European and that contradicts your statements on Europeans. I am not European but I don't allow this type of blanket statement in the forum. If I hear that type of thing again in the forum there will be consequneces
I made a mistake about the samples not being pre-Spanish because the repeatedly talked about 17th and 18th century in that open access paper you mentioned. Like in this chart
I have since seen other people in forums get confused about the samples in this paper. They don't have charts which correlate to the earlier dates not do they indicate what haplogroups are associated with which sample. Maybe that is available in a supplement somewhere but you will have to find it because I can't
However human remains on the islands are not old enough to establish a human population old enough to establish them being adapted to the environment of the Canary Islands, therefore discussing latitudes is irrelevant to the human remains being discussed"
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
The emerging data proves I am correct.
1. White skin originated in Africa(Tishkoff and xyyman) and may be the original color of humanoids. We needed to be black to become human. Melanin. 2. xyyman, Henn and others "Europeans are depigmented Africans" 3. Can humans morph that quickly - plasticity 4. Does the environment change the genes or the genes adapt to the environment? " Grey wolves and dogs domestication originated in Africa. They do NOT look like grey wolves but they ARE grey wolves 5. depigmentation in Europe took place recently even AFTER the Bronze Age - yes. IAM, La Brana Levantines were all pigmented up to the Bronze Age 6. Caucasoid originated in Africa and as the evidence emerging suggest it wasn't North Africa. It was may be SSA in the Great lakes Tanzania or even South Africa looking at Hofmeyr. Still waiting on DNA from Max Planck. I heard they needed to resample. Lol! Let me guess to much Caucasoid in the sample. They can't believe it. He! He! 7. Kinky hair may be a new development. Post by the clown on 100000year old hair in Africa was "curly" and not kinky? Some West Africans carry derived EDAR. Europeans do not carry derived EDAR
Need I continue?
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
I am wondering what xyyman will write next if Europeans decided to change their theories, as they have changed so many times during one century?
That's why I said. Authors of books and articles write what they want. Is up to the reader to agree or not in accordance to their knowledge and comprehension.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
European "books" are filled with lies and distortions just as the research they publish. You do know there are black scientist? We can write also.
Meaning? We do not have to believe in Voodoo magic and narration from our elders.
We were the first scientist!!! Just letting you know.
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
xyyman lol...
Now you made me laughing even more... You mentioned black scientist? But, Max Planck is an European - German Institution?
Therefore, your data is based on White people decisions. They can turn around what they say anytime they want. Have you ask yourself, why Europeans geneticists added an Orangutan monkey from Borneo to human ancestors?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
"Europeans geneticists added an Orangutan monkey from Borneo to human ancestors? "
huh? "shut your mouth". They used the word "ancestors" or related?
You do know modern Western science and civilization is built upon the discoveries and science from the Nile Valley and other black civilizations? I have no problem using their data.
But we are going off topic.....perhaps another thread
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
There is a reason why I asked if you finished High School. Reading the news report it is nothing like you said.
1. Orangutans are related and not ancestral to humans 2. Chimps(African apes0 are still the closest to humans NOT Orangutans 3. Stop your nonsense. Lol!
The term "related" to human is applied to all great apes such as Bonobo, Chimpanzee and Gorilla. In fact, only recently that Americans and Europeans geneticists elevated Orangutan to the "Great Ape" category and human ancestor.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The emerging data proves I am correct.
1. White skin originated in Africa(Tishkoff and xyyman) and may be the original color of humanoids. We needed to be black to become human. Melanin. 2. xyyman, Henn and others "Europeans are depigmented Africans" 3. Can humans morph that quickly - plasticity 4. Does the environment change the genes or the genes adapt to the environment? " Grey wolves and dogs domestication originated in Africa. They do NOT look like grey wolves but they ARE grey wolves 5. depigmentation in Europe took place recently even AFTER the Bronze Age - yes. IAM, La Brana Levantines were all pigmented up to the Bronze Age 6. Caucasoid originated in Africa and as the evidence emerging suggest it wasn't North Africa. It was may be SSA in the Great lakes Tanzania or even South Africa looking at Hofmeyr. Still waiting on DNA from Max Planck. I heard they needed to resample. Lol! Let me guess to much Caucasoid in the sample. They can't believe it. He! He! 7. Kinky hair may be a new development. Post by the clown on 100000year old hair in Africa was "curly" and not kinky? Some West Africans carry derived EDAR. Europeans do not carry derived EDAR
Need I continue?
So if depigmentation in Europe took place recently even AFTER the Bronze Age
And white skin originated in Africa
then where did the white skinned Africans who existed prior to recently depigmented Africans who became known as modern Europeans in the bronze age, where did they go?
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
lioness then where did the white skinned Africans who existed prior to recently depigmented Africans who became known as modern Europeans in the bronze age, where did they go?
It is a good question isn't it? In accordance with their theories, All Africans should be white right?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Linda Fahr: lioness then where did the white skinned Africans who existed prior to recently depigmented Africans who became known as modern Europeans in the bronze age, where did they go?
It is a good question isn't it? In accordance with their theories, All Africans should be white right?
xyyman says white skin originated in Africa.
Recent genetics research claims DNA evidence of a diversity of skin tones in different regions of Africa going back to the period before humans left Africa
It is uncertain the exact climate the very first humans were living in
Posted by Thereal (Member # 22452) on :
To Linda farh point whites do have the influence to discredit or say its Afrocentric hooey and saying it's "science" doesn't mean much as they can change their talking points to further confused the general public,some people don't know black folks exist in North Africa and they try to attribute there presence from slavery.
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
Sure...and the region with this DNA diversity is Tanzania and South Africa, where the largest amount white migrants settled for over 500 years?
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
insults will get you banned again -lioness
[ 11. January 2018, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
BMC Evol Biol. 2009; 9: 181. Published online 2009 Aug 3. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-9-181 PMCID: PMC2728732 Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European
Rosa Fregel,1 Verónica Gomes,2,3 Leonor Gusmão,2 Ana M González,1 Vicente M Cabrera,1 António Amorim,2 and Jose M Larruga
R-M269 was also found in the indigenous sample in a moderate frequency [10%]. Its presence in the indigenous people could be explained in two ways: [a] R-M269 was introduced into NW Africa in prehistoric not historical times, or [b] the presence of this marker in the aborigines was due to a prehispanic European gene flow into the indigenous population. As NW African R-M269 chromosomes showed close STR-similarity to the Iberian ones [17], pointing to recent contacts between both regions, the second option appears more plausible.
Conclusion The presence of autochthonous North African E-M81 lineages, and also other relatively abundant markers [E-M78 and J-M267] from the same region in the indigenous population, strongly points to that area as the most probable origin of the Guanche ancestors. This is in accordance with previous genetic studies performed on the same material at mtDNA level [24], and in support of the cultural connections found between the Berbers and the indigenous islanders people [9,15,52]. In addition to this mainly NW African colonization, the detection in the indigenous sample of markers like I-M170 and R-M269 of clear European ascription might suggest that other secondary waves also reached the Archipelago, most likely from the Mediterranean basin. This would again be in agreement with the multiple settlement theory proposed to explain the physical and cultural diversity found between and within the different islands [3,52]. However, as these markers are also present in N Africa, albeit in low frequencies, it could be that they arrived in the islands during the same African wave[s] that brought E-M81 and reached relatively high frequencies there due to founder and genetic-drift effects. If so, the presence of these markers in N Africa may be older than previously proposed [17].
Compared to the original natives, the 17th–18th century historical sample mainly differs by harboring lower frequencies of NW African haplogroups [p < 0.05], such as E-M81 [11.9% vs 26.7%], E-M78 [11.9% vs 23.3%] and J-M267 [11.9% vs 16.7%], and higher frequencies for European haplogroups [p < 0.001] like R-M269 [42.9% vs 10.0%] or R-M173, [9.5% vs 0.0%]. A notable exception was I-M170 because it was not detected in the historical sample, despite being moderately frequent in the aborigines [6.7%].
__________________________________
As I said before "indigenous" is relative . It means "whoever Europeans find and document at a given point in time" or the date of remains found
^^ The Aboriginal column is ABO
E M33 3.33
E-M78 23.33
E-M81 26.67
I 6.67
J 16.67
K 10.00
P* M45 3.33
M269 10.00
___________________________
This resembles the DNA of certain Berber populations
Posted by Linda Fahr (Member # 21979) on :
If DNA tests were 100% reliable, would not be divergences among geneticists and historians about the same founding. In fact, ancient DNA tests results are considered by scientific and intellectual communities as a "theories".
Now...taken in consideration some DNA results, it is clear that West African people, were the first to inhabited Canary Islands.
But, beside DNA results which proved that Adam DNA, from West Africa were present in the Canary Island, they also left their geometrical designs in their cave paintings. These paintings styles still be done in West Africa today... There is no place in the Earth that people still painting the same geometrical patterns than in West Africa. Therefore, it is originally from ancient West African people.
As I wrote before, I found Mbo, and Khoisan Paleolithic and Neolithic arts in Morocco, and from there, one segment of them, went to Canary Islands, other segment crossed the Gibraltar Strait, into Iberia, where was the starting place of their Bell-Beaker culture.
Below is the earliest cave paintings located on Gran Canaria in the Province of Las Palmas. It is identical to the paintings that still be done in houses, garments, and pottery in West Africa.
Now...below is the link of West Africa architecture which evolved into Black European Nobility castles during high and middle Ages. But, I will write about it later, on Star Wars Movie forum. And as well, who was Snoke,during the 30 years war, and why Hollywood intellectual writers considered him to be a "humanoid" and not a fully evolved human which has an appearance resembling a human without actually being one!
And of course who was the brown Queen - a female creature played by the beautiful kenyan actress Lupita Nyong'o.
Now...taken in consideration some DNA results, it is clear that West African people, were the first to inhabited Canary Islands.
No it isn't, the DNA most closely resembles North African berbers
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Linda Fahr:
Now...taken in consideration some DNA results, it is clear that West African people, were the first to inhabited Canary Islands.
No it isn't, the DNA most closely resembles North African berbers
Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European
BMC Evolutionary Biology2009 9:181
Background
The origin and prevalence of the prehispanic settlers of the Canary Islands has attracted great multidisciplinary interest. However, direct ancient DNA genetic studies on indigenous and historical 17th–18th century remains, using mitochondrial DNA as a female marker, have only recently been possible. In the present work, the analysis of Y-chromosome polymorphisms in the same samples, has shed light on the way the European colonization affected male and female Canary Island indigenous genetic pools, from the conquest to present-day times.
Results
Autochthonous (E-M81) and prominent (E-M78 and J-M267) Berber Y-chromosome lineages were detected in the indigenous remains, confirming a North West African origin for their ancestors which confirms previous mitochondrial DNA results. However, in contrast with their female lineages, which have survived in the present-day population since the conquest with only a moderate decline, the male indigenous lineages have dropped constantly being substituted by European lineages. Male and female sub-Saharan African genetic inputs were also detected in the Canary population, but their frequencies were higher during the 17th–18th centuries than today.
Conclusion
The European colonization of the Canary Islands introduced a strong sex-biased change in the indigenous population in such a way that indigenous female lineages survived in the extant population in a significantly higher proportion than their male counterparts.
Now...taken in consideration some DNA results, it is clear that West African people, were the first to inhabited Canary Islands.
No it isn't, the DNA most closely resembles North African berbers
Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European
BMC Evolutionary Biology2009 9:181
Background
The origin and prevalence of the prehispanic settlers of the Canary Islands has attracted great multidisciplinary interest. However, direct ancient DNA genetic studies on indigenous and historical 17th–18th century remains, using mitochondrial DNA as a female marker, have only recently been possible. In the present work, the analysis of Y-chromosome polymorphisms in the same samples, has shed light on the way the European colonization affected male and female Canary Island indigenous genetic pools, from the conquest to present-day times.
Results
Autochthonous (E-M81) and prominent (E-M78 and J-M267) Berber Y-chromosome lineages were detected in the indigenous remains, confirming a North West African origin for their ancestors which confirms previous mitochondrial DNA results. However, in contrast with their female lineages, which have survived in the present-day population since the conquest with only a moderate decline, the male indigenous lineages have dropped constantly being substituted by European lineages. Male and female sub-Saharan African genetic inputs were also detected in the Canary population, but their frequencies were higher during the 17th–18th centuries than today.
Conclusion
The European colonization of the Canary Islands introduced a strong sex-biased change in the indigenous population in such a way that indigenous female lineages survived in the extant population in a significantly higher proportion than their male counterparts.
Again the ABO column is the pre-Spanish population some as early as 200 AD
The next column CON is 17th and 18th century population
Notice the differences in DNA between the two
The pre-Spanish ABO population is closer to North African berbers than it is to West Africans.
> and the 17th and 18th century population is as well
quote: Conclusion
The presence of autochthonous North African E-M81 lineages, and also other relatively abundant markers [E-M78 and J-M267] from the same region in the indigenous population, strongly points to that area as the most probable origin of the Guanche ancestors. This is in accordance with previous genetic studies performed on the same material at mtDNA level [24], and in support of the cultural connections found between the Berbers and the indigenous islanders people [9, 15, 52].
Compared to the original natives, the 17th–18th century historical sample mainly differs by harboring lower frequencies of NW African haplogroups [p < 0.05], such as E-M81 [11.9% vs 26.7%], E-M78 [11.9% vs 23.3%] and J-M267 [11.9% vs 16.7%], and higher frequencies for European haplogroups [p < 0.001] like R-M269 [42.9% vs 10.0%] or R-M173, [9.5% vs 0.0%]. A notable exception was I-M170 because it was not detected in the historical sample, despite being moderately frequent in the aborigines [6.7%].
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Again from 2017
The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers
Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans
Author links open overlay panelRicardoRodríguez-Varela1211TorstenGünther3MajaKrzewińska1JanStorå1Thomas H.Gillingwater4MalcolmMacCallum4Juan LuisArsuaga25KeithDobney678CristinaValdiosera29MattiasJakobsson3AndersGötherström1LinusGirdland-Flink110 Show more https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2017.09.059
Highlights • The first genome-wide data from the Guanches confirm a North African origin
• The Guanches were genetically most similar to modern North African Berbers
• Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
Summary The origins and genetic affinity of the aboriginal inhabitants of the Canary Islands, commonly known as Guanches, are poorly understood. Though radiocarbon dates on archaeological remains such as charcoal, seeds, and domestic animal bones suggest that people have inhabited the islands since the 5th century BCE [1–3], it remains unclear how many times, and by whom, the islands were first settled [4, 5]. Previously published ancient DNA analyses of uniparental genetic markers have shown that the Guanches carried common North African Y chromosome markers (E-M81, E-M78, and J-M267) and mitochondrial lineages such as U6b, in addition to common Eurasian haplogroups [6–8]. These results are in agreement with some linguistic, archaeological, and anthropological data indicating an origin from a North African Berber-like population [1, 4, 9]. However, to date there are no published Guanche autosomal genomes to help elucidate and directly test this hypothesis. To resolve this, we generated the first genome-wide sequence data and mitochondrial genomes from eleven archaeological Guanche individuals originating from Gran Canaria and Tenerife. Five of the individuals (directly radiocarbon dated to a time transect spanning the 7th–11th centuries CE) yielded sufficient autosomal genome coverage (0.21× to 3.93×) for population genomic analysis. Our results show that the Guanches were genetically similar over time and that they display the greatest genetic affinity to extant Northwest Africans, strongly supporting the hypothesis of a Berber-like origin. We also estimate that the Guanches have contributed 16%–31% autosomal ancestry to modern Canary Islanders, here represented by two individuals from Gran Canaria.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
So, you're telling us that all of the DNA traces have disappeared all of sudden in 2017?
in addition to common Eurasian haplogroups [6, 7, 8].
[6] Ancient mtDNA analysis and the origin of the Guanches. Maca-Meyer, N., Arnay, M., Rando, J.C., Flores, C., González, A.M., Cabrera, V.M., and Larruga, J.M. Eur. J. Hum. Genet. 2004; 12: 155–162
[7] The maternal aborigine colonization of La Palma (Canary Islands). Fregel, R., Pestano, J., Arnay, M., Cabrera, V.M., Larruga, J.M., and González, A.M. Eur. J. Hum. Genet. 2009; 17: 1314–1324
[8] Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European. Fregel, R., Gomes, V., Gusmão, L., González, A.M., Cabrera, V.M., Amorim, A., and Larruga, J.M. BMC Evol. Biol. 2009; 9: 181 Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] So, you're telling us that all of the DNA traces have disappeared all of sudden in 2017?
All DNA traces of what?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] So, you're telling us that all of the DNA traces have disappeared all of sudden in 2017?
All DNA traces of what?
Of the African shithole.
* Here, we report mitochondrial DNA analysis (HVRI sequences and RFLPs) of aborigine remains around 1000 years old.
* nor does either sample tie in with the Berbers of North Africa as has previously been claimed
Ancient mtDNA analysis and the origin of the Guanches.
—Nicole Maca-Meyer, Matilde Arnay, Juan Carlos Rando, Carlos Flores, Ana M González, Vicente M Cabrera and José M Larruga Eur J Hum Genet 12(2):155-62 (2004) PMID 14508507
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] So, you're telling us that all of the DNA traces have disappeared all of sudden in 2017?
All DNA traces of what?
Of the African shithole.
stop trolling and talking about shitholes
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb]
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] So, you're telling us that all of the DNA traces have disappeared all of sudden in 2017?
All DNA traces of what?
Of the African shithole.
stop trolling
Only when you stop. Agreed?
Pope Eugene IV Against the Enslaving of Black Natives from the Canary Islands, January 13, 1435
No I don't agree. If you keep referring to Africa as a shithole your post will be deleted
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
So what happened to the "sub Saharan input"? Wave the magic wand.
Ps, I can delete things as well. Remember, you started this.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
So what happened to the "sub Saharan input"? Wave the magic wand.
what haplogroup?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
So what happened to the "sub Saharan input"? Wave the magic wand.
what haplogroup?
Good grief. You are so obsessed with eurocentric ideology you completely skipped the eccentric issue.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Ps, I can delete things as well.
can you delete this post?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Ps, I can delete things as well.
can you delete this post?
Stop trolling, stay on topic.
The Guanches analyzed here carried mitochondrial lineages such as J1c3, H2a, U6b, L3b1a, and T2c1d2 that are common across West Eurasia and/or North Africa [14] (Tables 1 and S1) and are consistent with previous studies on ancient Guanche mitochondrial DNA [6, 7].
—Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
So what happened to the "sub Saharan input"? Wave the magic wand.
Ps, I can delete things as well. Remember, you started this.
which sub saharan input are you referring to and why if it was present in the guanches would something have happened to it if Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry.
You make very little sense, again trolling
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
I am the first one in this thread to post data indicating Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands carried a variety of mtDNA ancstries including L3 and and T2
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: I am the first one in this thread to post data indicating Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands carried a variety of mtDNA ancstries including L3 and and T2
I am talking about "sub" Sahara Africa, can you still follow along, or is it becoming too difficult?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
So what happened to the "sub Saharan input"? Wave the magic wand.
Ps, I can delete things as well. Remember, you started this.
which sub saharan haplogroups are you referring to and if why would there be no traces if Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
Can you answer a simple question?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Pope Eugene IV Against the Enslaving of Black Natives from the Canary Islands, January 13, 1435
In Europe as late as the 17th century some Europeans would call other Europeans "black" who might be anything less than pale and also called dark skinned people such as many Africans "black". The use of the word was not always associated with black being a "race" as it is by many to today
However I would like to see the above Papal Bull written in it's original language but I haven't been able to find it
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry --- Genomic Analyses of Pre-European Conquest Human Remains from the Canary Islands Reveal Close Affinity to Modern North Africans 2017 RicardoRodríguez-Varela
So what happened to the "sub Saharan input"? Wave the magic wand.
Ps, I can delete things as well. Remember, you started this.
which sub saharan haplogroups are you referring to and if why would there be no traces if Modern inhabitants of Gran Canaria carry an estimated 16%–31% Guanche autosomal ancestry
In Europe as late as the 17th century some Europeans would call other Europeans "black" who might be anything less than pale and also called dark skinned people such as many Africans "black". The use of the word was not always associated with black being a "race" as it is by many to today
However I would like to see the above Papal Bull written in it's original language but I haven't been able to find it
So you’re telling me they enslaved folks were actual paler than them. What is the color complexion of the average Spaniard again? And how does this theory of yours support the findings I have posted earlier on.
See, you are so obsessed with Eurocentric mind-babble that it blocks your clear thinking. You will use any argument to win a debate, as long as it supports Eurocentric B.S.
By the way you don’t posses the intelligentsia to read the PapaBull in it’s original state. This is no attempt to insult, but a fact.
Again, read the link to the study I have posted. And stop this dimwit behavior, because it’s getting beyond ridiculous with your constant contradictions. “You are like a smart person”.
Ps, as a matter of fact many Africans were in Europe. So no wonder they described that color complexion as black. These blacks also procreated in Europe, yes as surprising as that may sound to you. You and your false Eurocentric projections.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: So you’re telling me they enslaved folks were actual paler than them.
No, I didn't say that you are hearing voices again
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
By the way you don’t posses the intelligentsia to read the PapaBull in it’s original state. This is no attempt to insult, but a fact.
you sound scared to me to put it up.
It's fear
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ]No, I didn't say that you are hearing voices again
More derailing, because you’re cornered.
Yes, I am hearing voices again, it’s my higher consciousness. I am very much in tune.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] you sound scared to me to put it up.
It's fear
You sound crazier than ever before. You crearly aren’t well in the head. You are scared to click the referral link, to see what’s coming for you. How it destroys your entire Eurocentric bozo garbage.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Because I ask you to put up a source document that's crazy?
o.k.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Because I ask you to put up a source document that's crazy?
o.k.
I am still waiting for you to address the sub Saharan African input. Stop running like you always do. Be brave for once and address this issue. Once you understand it will clear up the source document.
So called moderator, you are crazy for not having basic understanding on subjects you try to prompt on. That is simply crazy, o.k.o Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Pope Eugene IV Against the Enslaving of Black Natives from the Canary Islands, January 13, 1435
In Europe as late as the 17th century some Europeans would call other Europeans "black" who might be anything less than pale and also called dark skinned people such as many Africans "black". The use of the word was not always associated with black being a "race" as it is by many to today
However I would like to see the above Papal Bull written in it's original language but I haven't been able to find it
I’m not sure what Nicole Kidman has to do with this topic. For some odd reason you brought here into the conversation. I know she’s “Jewish”. And some “Jews” do have African admixture. Anyway, it’s confusing. It was probably the voices in your head, telling you post this picture.
I not black I’m OJ, okay...
Ganche specimen from the Canary island.
quote:
Más de cien años ha permanecido la momia guanche mejor conservada que existe en el Museo de Antropología y de allí salió ayer para llegar a su nueva casa, el Museo Arqueológico Nacional (MAN), donde será la estrella del nuevo espacio dedicado a la prehistoria canaria.
Con un poema guanche despidieron en el Museo Nacional de Antropología de Madrid a la momia del Barranco de Herques, hallada en 1776 en Tenerife, tras lo que se inició su traslado al Arqueológico con un estricto protocolo de seguridad para evitar su deterioro.
A su llegada al MAN, seis operarios de una empresa especializada en transporte de obras de arte, embutidos en monos de protección y mascarillas, realizaron el traspaso de la frágil momia de la caja en la que fue trasladada a una vitrina especialmente diseñada para mantener las condiciones de conservación idóneas.
Hace unos meses ya se había hecho un simulacro del traslado y colocación de la momia, según explicó a Efe la conservadora jefe del Museo, Teresa Gómez Espinosa, que relató cómo el proceso ha sido muy complejo porque la momia es muy delicada.
La vitrina que la albergará a partir de ahora ha sido especialmente diseñada para mantener las condiciones de conservación idóneas e incorpora complejos dispositivos para análisis y mediciones en su interior con el fin de evitar el riesgo de contaminación por compuestos orgánicos volátiles o por biodeterioro.
Los momentos en los que la sacaron de la vitrina y el de instalación en la nueva fueron los más críticos, indicó la conservadora jefe, que consideró un éxito la operación, en la que se siguió un preciso protocolo debido a la fragilidad de la momia, muy sensible a las alteraciones.
Un embalaje muy sofisticado, realizado con un molde específicamente para el traslado, protegió a la momia durante el proceso para evitar peligrosos cambios ambientales y de luz.
«Es un ejemplar único», indicó a Efe el director del MAN, Andrés Carretero, que explicó que la operación llevada a cabo ayer es «como trasladar Las Meninas o El Guernica, no puede haber un solo fallo porque puede suponer un daño irreparable para la pieza".
Por ello, señaló, se hizo con todas las garantías y el personal técnico necesario tras los análisis realizados por el personal del Instituto de Patrimonio Cultural y un ensayo de todo el proceso.
Carretero está convencido de que la momia será un atractivo para todo el público y especialmente para los niños pero destacó el interés del museo en completar así la muestra del desarrollo cultural de la actual España ya que Canarias era la única Comunidad Autónoma que no estaba representada.
Ruth Maicas, del departamento de Prehistoria del MAN, indicó que es muy difícil conocer la fecha de la que data la momia y consideró que queda mucho por investigar en la antropología e historia canaria.
Testimonio de cultura prehispánica
Esta momia, de un hombre adulto y que tras su hallazgo fue enviada al rey Carlos III para el Real Gabinete de Historia Natural por su excepcional estado de conservación, es testimonio de uno de los rasgos más llamativos de la cultura prehispánica en las islas de Tenerife, Gran Canaria y La Palma, que momificaban a miembros destacados de la sociedad y los enterraban en tumbas colectivas en cuevas de difícil acceso, recordó Maicas.
El cuerpo se cubría con pieles de cabra u oveja, y en Gran Canaria se empleaban también tejidos de junco de palma.
El sistema de momificación que se practicaba en las islas Canarias era diferente al de otras culturas y deja visibles más restos del fallecido.
El nuevo espacio dedicado a la arqueología canaria se completa con piezas cerámicas, textiles, ídolos, lascas y otros materiales, además de gráficas, mapas y un audiovisual, que acercan al visitante a la sociedad prehispánica insular.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Because I ask you to put up a source document that's crazy?
o.k.
I am still waiting for you to address the sub Saharan African input. Stop running like you always do. Be brave for once and address this issue. Once you understand it will clear up the source document.
So called moderator, you are crazy for not having basic understanding on subjects you try to prompt on. That is simply crazy.
I answered that already. I was the first to post the L3 and T lineages of the Guanches. Berbers do have a West African component. That doesn't mean they are primarily West African. They are North African. You even posted some photos of berbers so I don't know what you are getting so emotional about
You make a lot of problems where there aren't any
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Because I ask you to put up a source document that's crazy?
o.k.
I am still waiting for you to address the sub Saharan African input. Stop running like you always do. Be brave for once and address this issue. Once you understand it will clear up the source document.
So called moderator, you are crazy for not having basic understanding on subjects you try to prompt on. That is simply crazy.
I answered that already. I was the first to post the L3 and T lineages of the Guanches. Berbers do have a West African component. That doesn't mean they are primarily West African. They are North African. You even posted some photos of berbers so I don't know what you are getting so emotional about
You make a lot of problems where there aren't any
Nope, you didn’t answer it, in fact you kept dancing around the hot fire, singing the same euroceric manta. That is the problem here, your constant bigotry and dishonestly. And this shows up in each and every subject being addressed here on this forum. Year after year. Where did I speak of a majority west African? Please quote those words. I am speaking of CLEAR WEST AFRICAN PRESENCE.
And now that I am at it, why is it you have so much trouble with west African presence in medieval and early Europe. You really fight against it as if your live depend upon it.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Answer what, try asking a proper question
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Answer what, try asking a proper question
Yeah, this spinoff again. You keep stretching it so long the story becomes watered down. This is your usual Eurocentric tactic.
See the link and the initial question. No need to repeat myself again and again. With this so called asking proper question remark. What are you, dumb? This thing is simple too complex for you to understand.
I am very flexible in my views and you are rude and have a lot of difficultly being clear in conversations.
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: I am very flexible in my views and you are rude and have a lot of difficultly being clear in conversations.
You’re least flexible I your views. That is why you always fight against west African presence in Europe. Be it medieval or early Europe. That is a fact. You’re only flexible with it comes to back migrations, that is another fact.
Now back to the topic.
Let’s try it differently, step by step, more on a retarded level. Meaning slow.
1)Was there West African presence at the Canary? Male and female?
Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
A confederation with white supremacy/ eurocetrism is a tiresome process. The main affinity is cowardness. Always running from confrontation. As long as white supremacy can write down B.S. without consequences, it goes on, from one after the next after the other and another.
Mind you, it only happens with a continent they consider to be a s...thole. So they dump sh...ty, supposed scientific studies in the s...thole. Who cares, what does it matter, right?
Posted by Red, White, and Blue + Christian (Member # 10893) on :
quote:Originally posted by Linda Fahr: Red, White, and Blue + Christian, lol...
It is not hispanoparlantes. The correct word in Spanish is "Hispanohablantes. Parlar, is an Italian verb=to speak in English.
I am wondering who didn't finished High School...
You do not know me and I do not use personal attacks.
Aquí, en Nueva York usamos la palabra HISPANOPARLANTE. Puede Ud. lo ver o oír esa palabra en todo lugar. En Frances, el verbo "parler" significa hablar en español.
Observez-vous madame. Je parle anglais, espagnol, français, et plus. Comprendez-vous?
Oui monsieur je parle un petit peu francais. I studied french in South American during the last year of High School. Then, when I finished High School, I traveled to Europe where I stayed for over a year.
First, I went to Britain, where I stayed for few months in Aberdeen-Scotland. From there, I traveled all over Scotland highlands, lowlands and Ireland.
From Britain, I went to Paris, where I lived 2 blocks from the Louvre Museum. I went to Louvre Museum every Monday because, on Mondays was free admission. I also studied French for 3 months at Alliance Francaise in Paris.
From Paris, I traveled to many regions of France, and I meet lots of European students on summer holiday, which invited me to visited them in their countries, and stayed in their homes. I traveled to various European countries, which by that time, I bought student discounted train tickets, to fit my student budget.
Now, I didn't mean to offended you. If I did, please, accept my apology. Actually, I like you.
In reference to to your " hispanoparlantes", sorry baby, but, hispanos speak Spanish, not French or Italian. Therefore, is not correct to write " hispanoparlantes" . Both verbs Parle and Parlare, are originally from Latin, which is originally from Italy.
I think you friends which speak "hispanoparlantes" must be from the minority group of Catalan region in north of Spain, which are located in the border of France. Again, it is not common word among Spanish speakers of Latin America, or other Spanish regions.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
They changed their title, because they wanted to improved their past barbarian image.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Remember, you started this.
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
