Originally posted by Black Crystal:
so you want to take what I allegedly said on some other occasion and apply to a separate and unrelated event? Who does shit like that? Never mind. No need for the back and forth.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
Most stuff I'm reading says it was used to prevent tanning which means many of their skin tones could darken. It's no secret that even darker portrayals of AE aren't Dinka black. Were the concoctions proven to be effective to prevent tanning or as sunscreen? I don't know. Beyond that, I'm saying that I've seen no evidence that the Egyptians knew the sun caused skin cancers, let alone that they placed anything on their skin to cope with a lack of physical adaptation.
If the only reason this is a source of discussion is to prove lighter people lived in Egypt, I'm not denying that they did. However the north-south "cline" of light to dark was generally how things are perceived in Egyptology, with the general trend towards a lighter northern AE look reminiscent of the modern Near East becoming more normative throughout Egypt in later periods of time.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
First of all, you don't even think the AE were black in the first place, you've already said you place them phenotypically with the modern Near East. So don't get on my ass for supposedly taking you around the block over some so-called debate with a "Eurocentrist" because your stated position is not that much different. Few Eurocentric commentators believe AE came straight out of Europe or looked like carbon copies of Nords. I use my words VERY carefully when I talk about stuff like this, specifically because of people wanting to make a political point. AE using sunscreen is probable depending on what you mean by sunscreen. And though I've seen studies saying they used stuff in the interest of preventing tanning (meaning many weren't Dinka black), I didn't read anything that said what they used was an effective sunblock. Since you're in a debate with "Eurocentrists" ask them to provide evidence of what they're talking about. We're not affirming with any certainty the existence of such a thing, so it's not really our place to prove Egyptians succeeded in creating sunblock.
quote:
But you seem to get in your feelings that you had to post all that extra extra.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
I already told you: I've read research that claimed they applied stuff to their skin in the interest of getting darker. Whether it was at the very least an effective sunscreen is for them to prove. Why are you asking us to prove the existence of something that you should be asking Team Eurocentrism to give you?
quote:Do you need to be shown the posts where you went around trying to show AE to be (non black) middle Eastern in phenotype? I don't have to be in my feelings to point out you're being full of it. You're debating a Eurocentrist on a position you already have? Why? Lol, you must think we were born yesterday. You're asking US this because you pretty much already have a standard Eurocentric position and would like us to go fishing to find your points for you. I'm sorry, I haven't found any evidence thus far that suggests the AE used an effective sunscreen. Not that it'd matter because I already said lighter skinned Egyptians existed regardless. So I already acknowledge the reason why anyone who'd be bringing up this type of conversation under the pretense of "debating Eurocentrism."
But you seem to get in your feelings that you had to post all that extra extra.
quote:Who does shit like that? People who don't have time for bullshit. How is this unrelated? You're trying to pass your interest in this as "combatting Eurocentrics" over an opinion you both share? They told you AE made something to successfully block UV? But don't have any information that goes beyond information online that says they were interested and tried to prevent tanning for relatively lighter skin? Ask SuperEgyptian Phonecian7 what their sources are. Like I said, IDC I already acknowledged light skin in Egypt. I'm just bemused by new Eurocentric users fucking up on their tapdancing game. You gotta do better!
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
so you want to take what I allegedly said on some other occasion and apply to a separate and unrelated event? Who does shit like that? Never mind. No need for the back and forth.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
Who does shit like that? People who don't have time for bullshit. How is this unrelated? You're trying to pass your interest in this as "combatting Eurocentrics" over an opinion you both share? They told you AE made something to successfully block UV? But don't have any information that goes beyond information online that says they were interested and tried to prevent tanning for relatively lighter skin? Ask SuperEgyptian Phonecian7 what their sources are. Like I said, IDC I already acknowledged light skin in Egypt. I'm just bemused by new Eurocentric users fucking up on their tapdancing game. You gotta do better!
quote:Why would you call it "Eurocentrism" when essentially Eurocentrics have your position which you do not hold to be politically biased, but factual in nature. You were calling it Eurocentric to give readers the impression that you were opposed to the general nature of the position. Whether you combat them specifically or not doesn't change that calling something "Eurocentric" is pejorative. This of course makes no sense to say for a position on AE that you also have.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Where the fuck did I say I was combating anyone? LMAO.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Why would you call it "Eurocentrism" when essentially Eurocentrics have your position which you do not hold to be politically biased, but factual in nature. You were calling it Eurocentric to give readers the impression that you were opposed to the general nature of the position. Whether you combat them specifically or not doesn't change that calling something "Eurocentric" is pejorative. This of course makes no sense to say for a position on AE that you also have.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Where the fuck did I say I was combating anyone? LMAO.
quote:That AE are more "Middle Eastern" and "non black" in phenotype. This is a the modern mainstream Eurocentric position for AE. I posted the link to where we discussed it too for anyone interested in looking. Your position is Eurocentric, so it makes little sense for you to talk pejoratively about your own viewpoint.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
What is my position?
quote:About what "smartass" [/sarcasm]? I just said from the get go, light skin and Near Eastern influences were in AE from the start. Even if you could prove they used sunscreen, it's not a problem for me. Try again.
But you in your feelings and defensive and shit. Shit, that aint my problem! smh.
quote:Being Eurocentric is describing something from a European perspective beyond the scope of what available data supports. Few Eurocentrics believe AE came from Europe. VERY few. The mainstream European perspective minimizes an African or black influence in the creation of Egyptian civilization. Most other groups get their cues in perspective from Eurocentrism or Afrocentric camps. Even if Eurocentrism isn't talking about Europeans or placing them IN a civilization, the perspective promoted is in the socioeconomic interests of Europeans to deny blacks they're making money off of had anything to do with Egypt. So the general attitude is that that they were not black in phenotype and came from the Near East. You don't have an opinion that is opposed to the dominant European perspective to call the viewpoint "Eurocentric." But you probably know this, since those Eurocentrics on youtube talking about stuff like sunscreen are generally promoting Egypt as a transplant from the modern Near East.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
[QB] lmfao! Dude lay off the dooby. Eurocentric implies centered on Europe. Afrocentric implies centered on Africa. If you believe AE was Middle Eastern then you are NOT Eurocentric smdh.
quote:How? What are you even suggesting I "lose" in you finding they used sunscreen? I already acknowledged lighter skinned people with genetic proximity to the Near East lived in AE.
You just in your feelings, dude. Seriously.
quote:Eurocentrists claim either
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Eurocentrists claim ancient Egypt was a WHITE civilization. Stop it.
quote:Again look at where most mainstream Eurocentric propaganda is coming. In the U.S MENA are white. So attempting to say they are light skinned "arabic" transplants from the Middle East is the U.S establishment's way of saying they're white.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Show me where Middle East is included in a Eurocentric point of view based on the definition. You can't. smdh.
quote:Still tapdancing. Where do I lose to be in my feelings? Even if you prove they used sunblock, I already told you I said lighter skinned modern looking Semites were in Egypt from the beginning. Where is the emotional investment you keep accusing me of.
I didn't bother reading your entire reply because frankly you are still in your feelings.
quote:Explain how anything I said was gymnastics. I'm sorry if you can't digest more than two sentences. You didn't comment on any of my points to explain why you disagreed. Saying I did some sort of gymnastics it doesn't make it so.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Oshun,
You have absolutely no intellectual honesty. I ask you to show me where Middle East is included in Eurocentrism, but instead you resort to gymnastics lmao. Later!
quote:Palestinians are genetically partly North African (Egyptian). So it's kind of circular to say Egyptians resemble them. You're not wrong when you say it, but you're leaving out part of the story. And the pictures you're using to represent Palestinians (also in that other thread, where the picture had poor lighting) are misleading. There is some sort of overlap between Egyptians and Palestinians, but it's easy to exaggerate with selective pictures. Also, the degree of overlap varies with time and region.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Oh yea, and I don't think they used sunscreen on their skin. I think that that is a made up shit by Eurocentrists. I just needed to make sure my assumption was correct. That is why I posted the thread asking.
Also, Palestinians today to me are fairly a good representation of the skin tone of ancient EGyptians. And I dont see them using any kind of skin cream protection.
quote:Can you prove it? So far I have come across assertions they did. I have yet to see data confirming this.
Originally posted by Swenet:
But to answer your question, the AE did use at least one form of sunscreen. They used ground (pulverized) minerals as make up to protect their eyes from sun glare.
quote:I just use the HTML url coding to avoid that. Yea it is very annoying to have to scroll right to left to read a post.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
anybody posting URLS that are too long I will be deleting them soon. You need to use the URL button instead so please go in an edit as such .
It's causing too much left to right scrolling making the thread unpleasant to read
lamin mainly
thank you
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
More info for those who are interested in how ancestors of living Palestinians related phenotypically to North Africans and Africans in general since Palaeolithic times.
quote:Ophthalmology of the Pharaohs: Antimicrobial Kohl Eyeliner in Ancient Egypt
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
quote:Can you prove it? So far I have come across assertions they did. I have yet to see data confirming this.
Originally posted by Swenet:
But to answer your question, the AE did use at least one form of sunscreen. They used ground (pulverized) minerals as make up to protect their eyes from sun glare.
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2012/04/20/ophthalmology-of-the-pharaohs/#.W2M9ZNIzbx4
quote:What you THINK doesn't matter at all, regarding their phenotype, especially since there is NO Near Eastern country with a "set" phenotype.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Personally I think Iraqis and Palestinians (and a couple others I cant think of now) are the best or closest representation in modern times of ancient Egyptian phenotype. The rest of the Middle East, places like Jordan and Lebanon, has been phenotypically white washed over time by Europeans.
quote:
Originally posted by Swenet:
More info for those who are interested in how ancestors of living Palestinians related phenotypically to North Africans and Africans in general since Palaeolithic times.
The 8th century Umayyad Dynasty warriors and their general Maslama ibn Abd al- Malik portrayed by the Byzantines (Greco-Romans) in their Manassas Chronicle. The true Arabs never portrayed themselves, but their centuries long sworn enemies did. Maslama was a Prince, son of or descended from an Arab slave woman and son of the former Caliph Abdl el-Malik Marwan who was born in Medina, in the Hijaz of Arabia . He was "governor of the two Iraks", and famous for his invasion of Constantinople, Byzantines and Turkish Khazars. The Umayyads were replaced later by the Turko-Persian dominated Abassids who despised the dark color of the original Arab peoples. It was during these early fights with and early subjugation by the northern peoples Turks, Persians, Byzantines, etc. that developed among the Arabs a racial consciousness in which they called themselves "the blacks" and their fair-skinned enemies the "reds".
quote:.
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Ophthalmology of the Pharaohs: Antimicrobial Kohl Eyeliner in Ancient Egypt
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
quote:Can you prove it? So far I have come across assertions they did. I have yet to see data confirming this.
Originally posted by Swenet:
But to answer your question, the AE did use at least one form of sunscreen. They used ground (pulverized) minerals as make up to protect their eyes from sun glare.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/bodyhorrors/2012/04/20/ophthalmology-of-the-pharaohs/#.W2M9ZNIzbx4
quote:
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Show me where Middle East is included in a Eurocentric point of view based on the definition. You can't. smdh. I didn't bother reading your entire reply because frankly you are still in your feelings.
quote:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
"Middle Eastern looking" covers a wide range of looks from some light more Europid types like those found in Syria, Lebenon Jordan etc to darker Kushite types like the Socotri and Yemeni
If anything I think you mean the Egyptians had an intermediate look....
quote:
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Show me where Middle East is included in a Eurocentric point of view based on the definition. You can't. smdh. I didn't bother reading your entire reply because frankly you are still in your feelings.
quote:I'll keep in mind for future reference that conversations with you spanning more than a few sentences might well be above your attention span or comprehension. Very sorry. Oh wait was this too many words?
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Thank you! see how easy that was, Oshun? lmao
quote:These are somewhat funny articles and of course there is no solid evidence for this. It's more so air babble. It makes you wonder why the eurocetrics don't use that formula now, since it worked so much better oppose to all these modern day chemical sunblockers. What they don't mention is that sunblockers also block the absorption of vitamin-D.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
I ran into a eurocentrist video that purports ancient Egyptians used sunscreen to protect their skin. Is this true?
quote:jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/DERM/934706/dnn150031.pdf.gif]jamanetwork.com
"The first record of sun protection began with the Egyptians, who used ingredients such as rice bran, jasmine, and lupine.1 Though they did not understand the harmful effects the sun has on the skin, they did understand the concept of tanning."
quote:Educational-Series-Sunscreen-Update-II-AU
People have sought to protect their skin from the sun since early times when the ancient Egyptians used the first sunscreens, which were developed from minerals.1 Today, armed with the knowledge that excessive sun exposure leads to skin cancers and premature ageing of the skin, the promotion of sun protection is the primary preventative health strategy for skin care.
quote:melanoma-caucasians-and-ancient-egyptian-africa
MELANOMA, CAUCASIANS AND ANCIENT EGYPTIAN-AFRICA
[...]
“The history of observation of human exposure to the sun and its effects dates around 1500 BC in Egypt… The ancient Egyptians used inorganic clays and mineral powders to protect their skin.” (Science VOL. 95, NO. 3; 2008)
quote:Yes. Good you put Middle Eastern in quotes. One interesting thing coming out of the latest aDNA reports is that no African population alive can represent the majority component found in all ancient North African DNA. As you know, so far it's been described as Natufian-like. Eventually this component will be clarified as best approximating unsampled ancient Africans. But this component has to be factored in as playing a role in any overlap between later (dynastic era) Egyptians and Palestinians. So, in other words, the OP is not actually correct in the way he conceptualizes the overlap if he takes it beyond Palaeolithic genetic exchanges mostly in the direction from Africa to Eurasia. The fact that it's not living Eurasians (or living Africans), but ancient Y-DNA E carrying North Africans and Eurasians that are closest to this component shows that we're dealing with genetic exchanges involving old unsampled populations.
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Its pretty much an accepted fact that Ancient Egypt's culture largely came from the South and Western Desert AKA the Green Sahara. I dont see how saying Egypt is African is "Afrocentric" when that is what the Archeological data is pointing to. As far as the people and how they looked, Id assume there were Egyptians esp. in the Delta and North who resembled "Middle Eastern" people as Swenet said the populations in the Levant and Palestine overlap with Egypt and North Africa.
quote:Eurocentrism is mainly sponsered by the Koch Brothers.
Originally posted by lamin:
Be cautious about all that DNA stuff. The Eurocentrics will lie and put out fake data as they please because very few people have time to check their stuff. Most suffer form Black Derangement Syndrome.
The best way to appraise the AEs racially is to simply [b] observe how they portrayed themselves and other ethno-racial groups on their murals.
But there's one paper that is consistent with the visually empirical data and the way the Ancient Greeks(Herodotus, Aristotle, etc.) saw them.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-205248.html
quote:why didn't you post the link?
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
I ran into a eurocentrist video that purports ancient Egyptians used sunscreen to protect their skin. Is this true?
quote:How about a better question. can you show us where a middle easterner (who was not trained by Europeans) claimed Egypt as middle eastern?
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Show me where Middle East is included in a Eurocentric point of view based on the definition. You can't. smdh. I didn't bother reading your entire reply because frankly you are still in your feelings.
quote:unless we start doing our own digging, we will for ever be at the mercy of these racist archaeologist.
Originally posted by lamin:
Be cautious about all that DNA stuff. The Eurocentrics will lie and put out fake data as they please because very few people have time to check their stuff. Most suffer form Black Derangement Syndrome.
The best way to appraise the AEs racially is to simply [b] observe how they portrayed themselves and other ethno-racial groups on their murals.
But there's one paper that is consistent with the visually empirical data and the way the Ancient Greeks(Herodotus, Aristotle, etc.) saw them.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-205248.html
quote:I didn't think to do that. Let me see if I still have the link in my history folder.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:why didn't you post the link?
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
I ran into a eurocentrist video that purports ancient Egyptians used sunscreen to protect their skin. Is this true?
quote:I suspected it was this clown. For giggles. Ask him what “sunscreen factor” he is using.
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Original video to ancient Egypt and sunscreen:
link
quote:The video doesn't identify an Egyptian text that say the purpose of a skin ointment was to protect form the sun
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Original video to ancient Egypt and sunscreen:
link
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The video doesn't identify an Egyptian text that say the purpose of a skin ointment was to protect form the sun
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Original video to ancient Egypt and sunscreen:
link
you can try to find it
here
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&q=ancient+egyptian+sunscreen
or here
https://www.google.com/search?q=egyptian+sunscreen&safe=off&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=bks&ei=6gBrW9zZOIym_QbOpIC4AQ&start=20&sa=N&biw=956&bih=731&dpr=1.09
secondly, even if you find an Egyptian text saying that an ointment was used for sunscreen there were some Asiatic foreigners in Egypt so if there was sunscreen it doesn't all the people needed to use it
Tutankhamun
Relief, Scenes Depicting A Military Campaign By #Ramesses II Against The #Nubians. From Temple Of Beit el-Wali |
_______________________________
^^ see these to pictures? This shuts down the implications of the video without even having to say anything
quote:That is not the texture they gave Tut. I literally stood in front on his statues etc in Egypt. The image you’ve posted has high IOS-light, making the skintone lighter.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The video doesn't identify an Egyptian text that say the purpose of a skin ointment was to protect form the sun
Originally posted by Black Crystal:
Original video to ancient Egypt and sunscreen:
link
you can try to find it
here
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&q=ancient+egyptian+sunscreen
or here
https://www.google.com/search?q=egyptian+sunscreen&safe=off&client=firefox-b-1-ab&tbm=bks&ei=6gBrW9zZOIym_QbOpIC4AQ&start=20&sa=N&biw=956&bih=731&dpr=1.09
secondly, even if you find an Egyptian text saying that an ointment was used for sunscreen there were some Asiatic foreigners in Egypt so if there was sunscreen it doesn't all the people needed to use it
Tutankhamun
Relief, Scenes Depicting A Military Campaign By #Ramesses II Against The #Nubians. From Temple Of Beit el-Wali |
_______________________________
^^ see these to pictures? This shuts down the implications of the video without even having to say anything
