Melanin Dosage Tests: Ancient Egyptians
The study, published in Nature Communications, found that modern Egyptians share more ancestry with Sub-Saharan Africans than ancient Egyptians did.quote:There have been plenty of people across the political spectrum who have expressed irritation with so-called "Social Justice Warriors". I don't think these critics would all identify with the current "alt-right" movement though. As I understand it, the very phrase "alternative right" was coined by the white nationalist Richard Spencer. So it's always been associated with racism even if some non-racists also find SJWs obnoxious.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
By Djehuti: In simliar fashion the 'Alt-Right' or 'Alternative Right' began as a movement against the regressive far-left fascists and their neo-lib masters in governments and corporations which attempt to stifle free-speech and the free-exchange of ideas among individuals. Unfortunately I and others have notice the infiltration of this movement by white-nationalists and Eurocentric chauvinists. It's gotten to a point that they now misrepresent scientific findings in favor of thier racist views.
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
quote:Dude, don't drink the cool aid. The Alt Right are a bunch of racists who want to have the luxury of being racists without being called racists. A person would have to be very slow to the point of being semi-retarded to not be aware of the fact that the Alt Right are and has always been a bunch of Whiny, pathetic, White males complaining about Blacks, women and Muslims., challenging White supremacy. Their Asian, Indian, and other non-White allies are embarrassed at the idea of being associated with White supremacy so pretend as if they are not aware that the Alt Right is a White supremacist movement.
Originally posted by Tyrannohotep:
quote:There have been plenty of people across the political spectrum who have expressed irritation with so-called "Social Justice Warriors". I don't think these critics would all identify with the current "alt-right" movement though. As I understand it, the very phrase "alternative right" was coined by the white nationalist Richard Spencer. So while alt-righters may share with the general population a distaste for SJWs, I don't think any opposition to SJW ideology or tactics can be called alt-right.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
By Djehuti: In simliar fashion the 'Alt-Right' or 'Alternative Right' began as a movement against the regressive far-left fascists and their neo-lib masters in governments and corporations which attempt to stifle free-speech and the free-exchange of ideas among individuals. Unfortunately I and others have notice the infiltration of this movement by white-nationalists and Eurocentric chauvinists. It's gotten to a point that they now misrepresent scientific findings in favor of thier racist views.
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
quote:Of course, "alternative right" would have originally been intended as an euphemism for white supremacist ideology. But given that the "alt-right" dudes haven't actually changed their attitudes or behavior at all, no name change is going to provide sufficient cover for their toxicity. In the end "alt-right" will become as embarrassing a term for them as "white nationalist" or "white supremacist" because of the people who associate themselves with it.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
quote:Dude, don't drink the cool aid. The Alt Right are a bunch of racists who want to have the luxury of being racists without being called racists. A person would have to be very slow to the point of being semi-retarded to not be aware of the fact that the Alt Right are and has always been a bunch of Whiny, pathetic, White males complaining about Blacks, women and Muslims., challenging White supremacy. Their Asian, Indian, and other non-White allies are embarrassed at the idea of being associated with White supremacy so pretend as if they are not aware that the Alt Right is a White supremacist movement.
Originally posted by Tyrannohotep:
quote:There have been plenty of people across the political spectrum who have expressed irritation with so-called "Social Justice Warriors". I don't think these critics would all identify with the current "alt-right" movement though. As I understand it, the very phrase "alternative right" was coined by the white nationalist Richard Spencer. So while alt-righters may share with the general population a distaste for SJWs, I don't think any opposition to SJW ideology or tactics can be called alt-right.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
By Djehuti: In simliar fashion the 'Alt-Right' or 'Alternative Right' began as a movement against the regressive far-left fascists and their neo-lib masters in governments and corporations which attempt to stifle free-speech and the free-exchange of ideas among individuals. Unfortunately I and others have notice the infiltration of this movement by white-nationalists and Eurocentric chauvinists. It's gotten to a point that they now misrepresent scientific findings in favor of thier racist views.
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
What is your idea of a sjw: someone who says that White thugs in uniform should be held accountable for the extrajuduicail murder of Black women , men or chikdren? Because as far as I am aware, the SJW label is normally used by racists complaining and whining that there are people who actually call for democratic accountability of cops who murder Black people.
quote:https://glencairnmuseum.org/newsletter/august-2015-the-purchase-of-the-lanzone-egyptian-collection.html
The Egyptian collection at Glencairn Museum, established in 1878, was assembled primarily by four men: the Reverend William Henry Benade (a Christian pastor, and later a bishop), John Pitcairn and his son Raymond (industrialists and philanthropists), and Rodolfo Vittorio Lanzone (an Italian Egyptologist and collector of antiquities). Benade and Pitcairn had earlier been instrumental in founding the Academy of the New Church, then located on Cherry Street in Philadelphia. Benade and Pitcairn were not present to witness the long-anticipated opening of the Academy in September of 1877, as the previous June they had boarded the White Star Liner Germanic, bound for an extended tour of Europe, Egypt and the Holy Land. Benade would later reflect on their three-month Egyptian excursion in a letter home to a member of the Academy:
quote:http://www.metmuseum.org/about-the-met/curatorial-departments/egyptian-art
History of the Department
The Department of Egyptian Art was established in 1906 to oversee the Museum's already sizable collection of art from ancient Egypt. The collection had been growing since 1874 thanks to individual gifts from benefactors and acquisition of private collections (such as the Drexel Collection in 1889, the Farman Collection in 1904, and the Ward Collection in 1905), as well as through yearly subscriptions, from 1895 onward, to the Egypt Exploration Fund, a British organization that conducted archaeological excavations in Egypt and donated a share of its finds to subscribing institutions.
Also in 1906, the Museum's Board of Trustees voted to establish an Egyptian Expedition to conduct archaeological excavations at several sites along the Nile. Instrumental in this decision was J. Pierpont Morgan, the Museum's president, who visited the expedition periodically until his death in 1913. At the time, the Egyptian government (through the Egyptian Antiquities Service) was granting foreign institutions the right to excavate with the understanding that the resulting finds would be divided evenly between the excavators and the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. The Met was granted concessions for the Middle Kingdom royal cemeteries of Lisht; the Late Dynastic Period temple of Hibis at Kharga Oasis in the western desert; the New Kingdom royal palace at Malqata; and the Middle and New Kingdom cemeteries and temples of Deir el-Bahri in the Theban necropolis opposite modern Luxor. The Egyptian Antiquities Service subsequently granted access to other sites as well, among them the important Predynastic cemetery of Hierakonpolis in southern Egypt.
Between 1906 and 1935, The Met's Egyptian Expedition conducted 14 seasons of excavations at Lisht. The site includes the Middle Kingdom pyramid complexes of Amenemhat I, the first king of Dynasty 12, and of his son, Senwosret I; a cemetery of officials from Dynasties 12 and 13; and an important Middle Kingdom settlement site. The early excavation teams were led by noted American Egyptologist Albert M. Lythgoe, the first curator of the Department of Egyptian Art. Lythgoe was assisted by his American colleague, Ambrose Lansing, and by Arthur C. Mace, a British Egyptologist. Also at Lisht was Herbert E. Winlock, a young American who was just beginning his career in Egyptology. Among the most important finds from the site are a ritual figure of wood (ca. 1929–1878 B.C.), one of a pair, the second of which is in Cairo; and burial equipment from the tomb of the Lady Senebtisi. It was while working with Mace in this tomb that Winlock developed the careful archaeological methods that made him one of the greatest excavators in the field of Egyptology.
quote:http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums-static/digitalegypt/museum/museum6.html
The Egyptian Museum, Cairo
The involvement of Egyptians in establishing an antiquities museum in Egypt dates back to the period of development of the antiquities museum in Europe between the 1780s and 1830s, with the conversion of the royal palace in Paris, the Louvre, into a museum, and the reconstruction of the British Museum in London as a building devoted substantially to antiquities. The early nineteenth century AD scholar al-Jabarti commented on the collecting activities of Europeans in 1817, but this was before European states had agreed to acquire large collections of Egyptian antiquities (Reid 2002: 39-40). Within a generation, the AD 1835 15 August decree by Mohamed Ali, inspired by Rifaa al-Tahtawi, included the following observation:
'It is well-known that Europeans have buildings for keeping antiquities - stones covered with paintings and inscriptions, and other such objects are carefully preserved there and show to the inhabitants of the country, as well as to travellers... Such institutions bring great renoun to the countries that have them.' (from Reid 2002: 55-56)
The decree envisaged a Museum in Cairo to house the finds of Egyptian antiquities inspectors, under the supervision of Yusuf Diya Effendi. Sadly, when the European scholar Richard Lepsius arrived from Berlin in 1842, Mohamed Ali told him that the project had not succeeded. However a collection had been begun, and there was a second antiquities collection, comprising finds from Luxor excavations, on display in one of the palaces of Ibrahim Pasha, son of Mohamed Ali.
In the reign of the next governor, Abbas I (ruled 1848-1854), official inspections are recorded for Upper Egypt and the Cairo area. The location and scope of the collection of antiquities seem not to be recorded in European sources: on one account it was moved to the School of Engineering in Boulaq in 1849, but another account has it moved to the Cairo citadel from a palace in the Ezbekiya quarter of Cairo in 1851. As recurrently in all museum histories, the government did not always respect the integrity of the collection; it seems that Abbas I presented part of the collection to Sultan Abd al-Aziz, and that his successor Said presented the remainder to Archduke Maximilian of Austria in 1855.
These collecting and inspecting activities from 1835 to the 1850s form the background to the decision of Said (1854-1863) and Ismail Pasha (ruled 1863-1879) to support Auguste Mariette from France as head of a refounded Maslahat Antiqat (or Maslahat al-Athar) 'Antiquities Service' in 1858. On 1 June Mariette became mamur al-antiqat 'director of antiquities' on an Egyptian government annual salary of £720. The same month provides the first entry in the register for the refounded Museum. Following, consciously or not, in the footsteps of Yusuf Diya Effendi, Mariette employed foremen at key sites from Aswan to Gizeh, to clear out large monuments and send the sculpture finds to Cairo. There are limited European-language sources for Egyptian participation in and view of this period of the Antiquities Service and the Egyptian Museum, Cairo; archival material such as the lists of Egyptian foremen and workers on foreign excavations could help to fill this gap, but the story can probably only be written from publications and archives in Arabic and Turkish (until the mid-19th century the language of government in Egypt).
The expanding collection was moved in 1902 to a new building on Tahrir Square, where it remains today, an incomparable treasure house for Egyptian antiquities.
The key Egyptian Egyptologist of the late nineteenth and early twentieth century is Ahmed Kamal (1851-1923), who succeeded in his scientific career despite the French directorship of the Antiquities Service, down to the 1952 revolution, and the British military occupation of Egypt from 1882 to independence in 1922 and to a greater or lesser extent thereafter until the 1952 revolution. With the arrival of Gamal Abd al-Nasser in 1952, all leading positions were transferred from Europeans to Egyptians.
quote:https://oi.uchicago.edu/about/history-oriental-institute
Institute
History of the Oriental Institute
Directors of the Oriental Institute
Mission & Priorities
The Oriental Institute Museum
The Research Archives of the Oriental Institute
Identity Guideline
What's New
Internships And Jobs
The Foundation of the Institute
The University of Chicago has been a center of ancient Near Eastern studies ever since its founding in 1891. The first president of the university, William Rainey Harper, was a Professor of Semitic Languages and his brother, Robert Francis, was an Assyriologist. Both taught in the Department of Semitic Languages at the new university. In 1896, the Department moved into the Haskell Oriental Museum where galleries devoted to the ancient Near East were established. Initially the collection was composed of a few plaster-cast reproductions and a small group of exhibition cases containing the little collection of antiquities. However, the collection grew rapidly as a result of both private donations and the university’s contributions to British field expeditions working in Egypt. In 1904, the University of Chicago Oriental Exploration Fund sent its first field expedition to Bismaya in Iraq. Two years later, an ambitious photographic and epigraphic survey of the temples in Nubia and Egypt was undertaken as a part of an overall project to publish all the ancient inscriptions in the Nile Valley.
James Henry Breasted: Founder
James Henry Breasted, the first American to receive a PhD in Egyptology, was appointed by President Harper to fill the first teaching position in Egyptian studies in the United States. Breasted was among the earliest to champion the role that the ancient Near East played in the rise of western civilization. He envisioned the establishment of a special institute devoted to tracing ancient man’s “progress” toward civilization, long before the classical civilizations of Greece and Rome. Breasted received support and encouragement from John D. Rockefeller, Jr. who, in 1919, funded The Oriental Institute as a laboratory for the study of the rise and development of ancient civilization. In 1931, through the generous financial support of John D. Rockefeller, Jr., the Oriental Institute moved into new permanent headquarters that housed laboratories, museum galleries, libraries and offices for the scientific and teaching staff. Today, this building continues to function as an internationally renowned center of ancient Near Eastern studies. Over 60,000 people visit the museum galleries each year, and hundreds of scholars come to consult the faculty and research collections.
quote:This alt-right movement is to recruit young folks. Behind this are big-names, older folks who carry fascist ideas. They plan ahead 30 years from now. And this what we see right now is to shape this ideology. These older folks took it to dysgenics (the annihilation of non-whites).
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
By Djehuti: In simliar fashion the 'Alt-Right' or 'Alternative Right' began as a movement against the regressive far-left fascists and their neo-lib masters in governments and corporations which attempt to stifle free-speech and the free-exchange of ideas among individuals. Unfortunately I and others have notice the infiltration of this movement by white-nationalists and Eurocentric chauvinists. It's gotten to a point that they now misrepresent scientific findings in favor of thier racist views.
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
quote:I have been called a SJW many of these white posters probably assumed that I was a white posters who spoke up for blacks.
Originally posted by Tyrannohotep:
quote:There have been plenty of people across the political spectrum who have expressed irritation with so-called "Social Justice Warriors". I don't think these critics would all identify with the current "alt-right" movement though. As I understand it, the very phrase "alternative right" was coined by the white nationalist Richard Spencer. So it's always been associated with racism even if some non-racists also find SJWs obnoxious.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
By Djehuti: In simliar fashion the 'Alt-Right' or 'Alternative Right' began as a movement against the regressive far-left fascists and their neo-lib masters in governments and corporations which attempt to stifle free-speech and the free-exchange of ideas among individuals. Unfortunately I and others have notice the infiltration of this movement by white-nationalists and Eurocentric chauvinists. It's gotten to a point that they now misrepresent scientific findings in favor of thier racist views.
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
quote:What are your suggestions?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
So what can be done? the Europeans have a large majority and they are going to be protecting their own interests.
quote:—Verena J. Schuenemann
Samples and anthropological analysis
All 166 samples from 151 mummified individuals (for details of the 90 individuals included in the later analysis, see Supplementary Data 1) used in this study were taken from two anthropological collections at the University of Tübingen and the Felix von Luschan Skull Collection, which is now kept at the Museum of Prehistory of the Staatliche Museen zu Berlin, Stiftung preußischer Kulturbesitz (individuals: S3533, S3536, S3544, S3552, S3578, S3610). According to the radiocarbon dates (Supplementary Data 1, see also ref. 18), the samples can be grouped into three time periods: Pre-Ptolemaic (New Kingdom, Third Intermediate Period and Late Period), Ptolemaic and Roman Period.
During their conservation in the Tübingen and Berlin collections the remains underwent different treatments: some were preserved in their original mummified state, while others were macerated for anthropological analysis or due to conservation problems19.
Some of the remains (individuals analysed in our study: 1543, 1547, 1565, 1577, 1611) have traces of gold leaf near the mouth and the cheekbone, which is characteristic for mummies from the Ptolemaic Period onwards20.
quote:This could very well be the case, however we don't know a thing about these mummies they have kept in "custody". There is no crania and post-crania metrical data, no tomb designation, nothing.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Let's assume that there were no fundamental flaws in this study and that the scientists involved truly intended to [and actually proceeded] on identifying indigenous Saharo-Sudanese and Nilo-Saharan ancestry in these mummies...
..Doesn't the near complete absense of African ancestry give credence to the conclusion that the Abusir mummies are a combination of Hyksos and other Levantine populations that conquered, dominated and settled the Delta and the Faiyum in large numbers at precisely the period from which these mummies are from?
To entertain or accept this conclusion, we would also have to explain how and why the Copts seem to so closely match the genetic profile of the Abusir mummies.
It seems very likely that the Copts are derivatives of Hyksos and other Levantine populations that mass migrated to Northern Egypt around the 12th dynasty.
quote:The lack of information makes it difficult to establish the identities of the Abusir mummies. The inexplicable failure to provide the Y-DNA profiles of all 90 mummies bridles any attempt to precisely determine who these people were.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:This could very well be the case, however we don't know a thing about these mummies they have kept in "custody". There is no crania and post-crania metrical data, no tomb designation, nothing.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Let's assume that there were no fundamental flaws in this study and that the scientists involved truly intended to [and actually proceeded] on identifying indigenous Saharo-Sudanese and Nilo-Saharan ancestry in these mummies...
..Doesn't the near complete absense of African ancestry give credence to the conclusion that the Abusir mummies are a combination of Hyksos and other Levantine populations that conquered, dominated and settled the Delta and the Faiyum in large numbers at precisely the period from which these mummies are from?
To entertain or accept this conclusion, we would also have to explain how and why the Copts seem to so closely match the genetic profile of the Abusir mummies.
It seems very likely that the Copts are derivatives of Hyksos and other Levantine populations that mass migrated to Northern Egypt around the 12th dynasty.
The most relevant tombs in Egypt are at the Vally of Kings, not at Abusir. So why did they prefer to analyze "Abusir remains"?
Nature writes:
Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry Genetic analysis reveals a close relationship with Middle Easterners, not central Africans
https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069
quote:—Vincent Francigny, Alex de Voogt, Joanna Kahn, William Harcourt-Smith
In 1924, the American Museum of Natural History (AMNH) in New York acquired a large collection of both archaeological and documentary material that had belonged to Austrian medical doctor, anthropologist and collector Felix von Luschan. Colloquially termed "The von Luschan Collection", a large portion of this collection consisted of human skeletal remains. Of these remains there are currently 339 individuals designated to the "el-Hesa" sub-collection, which is mainly made up of cranial and associated postcranial elements.
Uncovered in 1907 at Cemetery 2 of el-Hesa, one of the islands of the first cataract of the Nile, this skeletal collection illustrates the difficulties of using osteological material coming from Nubia, at the edge of the Egyptian territory. In particular, physical anthropologists continue to use outdated chronologies when discussing the age of the collection. This review of the el-Hesa collection provides an updated historical context for the remains, including new evidence dating them from the Late Roman period to the beginning of the Christian era.
DOI:10.2458/azu_jaei_v06i1_harcourt-smith
quote:So, Blond/Red/Hair Blue Eyed Ancient Egyptians? I am not an expert in DNA/Alleles and hereditary so maybe someone can explain.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^ I fully agree, and we have to study and understand this man Felix von Luschan, only then will we fully understand this "Abisir paper" and it's place in history.
http://www.ezakwantu.com/Gallery%20Herero%20and%20Namaqua%20Genocide.htm
The fact the title emphasizes on "Sub-Saharans" being least indigenous and or related to ancient Egypt, according to "their" findings is much forth telling.
Yet, at least one of the samples is clearly African in origin, which has SNP's that can easily be found in the SSA region, specimen JK2888 and is very old in the region. However, this is probably what they clam as being recent in this supposed paper.
Here is a well put together summary of the derived alleles, which shows the JK2888 is Ptolemaic and is dated 97–2 0/1.
The other specimen is included as well and dates back to max, 769 BC.
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/06/01/phenotype-snps-from-ancient-egypt/
Another point I like to make is how a Google search gives 13.500 results, showing this spread like wildfire. (a great move by the chief strategist)
Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods.
quote:You yourself posted on this. It's about 3 specimen. The oldest is dated 769 BC, yet ancient Egypt goes back 5 thousand years and millennia before that deeper in the South. The specimen are claimed to be from Abusir, which is located right under Lower west-Egypt.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
DNA is not my field of expertise, I read to keep a basic understanding and try to stay abreast of current news.
My basic question is, since I see recurrent numbers how many different individuals are represented?
The time period is interesting on Pre Ptolemaic
The 25th dynasty was a line of rulers originating in the Nubian Kingdom of Kush – in present-day northern Sudan and southern Egypt – and most saw Napata as their spiritual homeland. They reigned in part or all of Ancient Egypt from 760–656 BC
quote:https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/06/04/k-14-admixture-analysis-of-ancient-egyptian-genomes/comment-page-1/#comment-1967
At the bottom of this post is a plot for a K = 14 admixture analysis that includes three genomes from ancient Egypt. The table above the plot gives some information for these samples.
The brown and black Negroid components are completely absent in the two Pre-Ptolemaic samples, while the Ptolemaic sample is 1.99% Negroid. This contrasts with the modern Egyptian samples, which are on average 10.93% Negroid.
quote:-- A-M Mekota1, M Vermehren2 Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13
Melanin Dosage Tests: Ancient Egyptians
quote:—José Farrujia de la Rosa
3. IMPERIALIST ARCHAEOLOGY IN THE CANARY ISLANDS AND THE STUDIES ON PREHISTORIC COLONIZATION
The leading geostrategic role of the Archipelago itself in relation to the colonial partitioning of Africa by Europe, specially just after the Berlin Conference (1884-1885), is a factor that has to be taken into account when analysing the different approaches to the colonization of the islands developed at the time, since it was the motley framework of annexationist and imperialist interests that eventually made the islands an enclave coveted by certain European nations, specially by France and Germany, as we have already pointed out. The German and French presence in West Africa, next to the Canaries, turned the Archipelago into a geostrategic enclave, economically valuable (Farrujia 2005).
It was this set of circumstances that would, in fact, favour the development within the islands of an imperialist archaeology, with clear racist leanings, in which some foreign authors engaged in Canarian studies were involved. This was the case with the French authors Jean-Baptiste Bory de Saint-Vincent, Sabin Berthelot, Cesar Faidherbe and René Verneau and the German authors Franz von Löher, Hans Meyer and Felix von Luschan.
3.3. The Aryan hypothesis
Contrary to the French authors, German scholars argued for an Aryan presence in the Canary Islands, and therefore an ancient link between Germany and the Archipelago. Franz von Löher (1990 [1876]) insisted on the presence of Vandals in the islands (6th century) partly on the basis of archaeological evidence (stone huts), but mainly through philological arguments (considering the Guanche or indigenous language as a German dialect). The source he used as a basis for his description of the Germanic people and their comparison with the Guanches was De origine et situ Germanorum by Cornelius Tacitus, in which the Latin author explained the customs in the Germanic towns at the time of the Varian disaster. In relation to this text, it should be remembered that German academic tradition had in fact built its national identity around the Germanic tribes, on the basis of classic texts such as the one by this Latin author.
Other German authors, such as Hans Meyer (1896) and Felix von Luschan (1896) also argued for Aryan invasions, but from an anthropological point of view. According to them, the Armenian type, associated with Indo-Europeans (and therefore Aryans) was considered to be related to the indigenous Canarian people. In connection with the proposed relationship to the Armenian type, it is necessary to point out that the studies of Meyer and Luschan had in fact been developed at the same time as the rise of Germany in Egypt and Mesopotamia since, on the eve of the First World War, the Ottoman empire had become a political and economic arena of the first order. In fact, Luschan end up arguing, after developing his studies on the anthropological materials obtained from the campaigns in the Near East, that the first residents of Mesopotamia and Anatolia had been a brachycephalic Armenian type, with the Mediterranean dolichocephalics arriving after them. This justified the predominance of the Aryan presence in the territories of the Near East, and consequently legitimised the German right to occupy them3.
3 In the case of the Canary Islands, Luschan did not held this view explicitly. Nevertheless, do bear in mind that he was a firm patriot, nationalist and imperialist who supported the need for a German overseas empire and defended the utility of imperialist competition. This was why he adopted a pro-belligerent position when defending the imperialist interests of Germany in Africa (Zimmerman 2001: 46), and why he defended the Aryan presence in the Canary Islands. In the case of Franz von Löher the imperialist ambitions were held explicitly, because as he wrote in the foreword to his book (Löher 1876: 4), if the Guanches were German, they should be liberated sooner or later.
4.4. The German incidence
German imperialist archaeology had hardly any influence on the Canarian authors. Several factors influenced this situation: the language barrier, since hardly any Canarian intellectuals spoke German4, the absence lack of any links between German and Canarian academic circles, the contacts established between Canarian and French scholars and the early relationship established between the Guanches and the Cro-Magnon type and, consequently, with the French prehistoric environment. Therefore, the theoretical and methodological guidelines developed in German archaeology and anthropology did not have such a profound effect on the Canarian academic world, which was more open and receptive to the French scientific world. The works of authors like Franz von Löher, Hans Meyer or Felix von Luschan on the Canaries were therefore unknown to most Canarian academics. Only some authors from the Islands referred to them, but without developing a critical reading of their works, an aspect doubtless influenced by a lack of knowledge of the German language5.
quote:https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/06/04/k-14-admixture-analysis-of-ancient-egyptian-genomes/comment-page-1/#comment-1967
Ramesses III belonged to the Caucasoid haplogroup E1b1b, with a 97.3% probability.
quote:--Hassan HY1, Underhill PA, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Ibrahim ME.
E-M78 represents 74.5% of haplogroup E, the highest frequencies observed in Masalit and Fur populations. E-M33 (5.2%) is largely confined to Fulani and Hausa, whereas E-M2 is restricted to Hausa. E-M215 was found to occur more in Nilo-Saharan rather than Afro-Asiatic speaking groups.
quote:The first number (D) is the number of reads that show the derived allele, the second number (T) is the total number of reads. The derived allele is the one that is associated with the trait in question (lighter skin, blue eyes, red hair, etc in this case). As you can see in most cases there are few reads (the genomes have poor coverage) and zero of the derived allele, so NOT blue-eyed or blond- or red-haired.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
So, Blond/Red/Hair Blue Eyed Ancient Egyptians? I am not an expert in DNA/Alleles and hereditary so maybe someone can explain.
quote:There is only 1 copy of the Y chromosome per cell but hundreds of copies of mitochondrial chromosome, so mtDNA is much easier to recover from ancient remains. If they can't get meaningful autosomal data they can't get Y haplogroups either.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The inexplicable failure to provide the Y-DNA profiles of all 90 mummies bridles any attempt to precisely determine who these people were.
quote:^^ That's a different site
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
This is what the Abusir tomb shows:
0411464
ARCHAEOLOGY. Relief with hieroglyphs at the entrance to the tomb of Amon Pen (Dynasty XIX), Abusir Necropolis, Egypt. Egyptian civilisation, New Kingdom, Dynasty XIX. Full credit: De Agostini / S. Vannini / Granger, NYC
quote:As a comparison many Berbers have Eurasian mtDNA but their Y-DNA is often E-M81
Originally posted by capra:
quote:There is only 1 copy of the Y chromosome per cell but hundreds of copies of mitochondrial chromosome, so mtDNA is much easier to recover from ancient remains. If they can't get meaningful autosomal data they can't get Y haplogroups either.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The inexplicable failure to provide the Y-DNA profiles of all 90 mummies bridles any attempt to precisely determine who these people were.
Probably they were hoping to get autosomal and Y data from a lot more of the mummies, so much being based on mtDNA weakens the results. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait for the next study.
quote:I didn't ask you anything here. But here you are to popup, so called debunking? See, since they claimed that the remains represent ancient Egypt all over, my post on Abusir should not make no difference, right? So why does it now?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:^^ That's a different site
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
This is what the Abusir tomb shows:
0411464
ARCHAEOLOGY. Relief with hieroglyphs at the entrance to the tomb of Amon Pen (Dynasty XIX), Abusir Necropolis, Egypt. Egyptian civilisation, New Kingdom, Dynasty XIX. Full credit: De Agostini / S. Vannini / Granger, NYC
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:https://www.wmf.org/project/abusir-el-malek
Abusir el-Malek
The ancient settlement of Abusir el-Malek sat on a small rise in the fertile floodplain between the Faiyum and the Nile. By 1500 B.C., it was a prosperous settlement with many temples and a vast burial ground and buildings stretching across a large area. Excavations in the early twentieth century revealed burials centered on a cult honoring Osiris, the Egyptian god of the afterlife. The earliest evidence of occupation at the site dates from around 3000 B.C., with the majority of burials beginning 1,500 years later. The cemetery continued to be used for centuries, with the earlier shaft tombs being filled with later burials from the Greek, Roman, and Islamic periods. Thousands of individuals were buried at the site over hundreds of years of use.
Archaeological exploration of Abusir el-Malek in the early twentieth century resulted in many artifacts being placed in museums around the world, bringing attention to the importance of the site and its history. Site work continued in the 1970s, emphasizing again the valuable information being gained from documenting Abusir el-Malek. Following the Arab Spring in 2011, when policing archaeological sites became more difficult, there was a tremendous surge in looting of heritage sites in the region. Abusir el-Malek is one of the archaeological sites that has been particularly heavily looted. The continuing destruction of sites in search of saleable antiquities has resulted in the loss of scientific evidence, artifacts, and understanding of the stratigraphy of archaeological ruins at thousands of ancient sites like Abusir el-Malek. Sadly this situation is not unique in Egypt, or elsewhere in the world. Times of crisis—poverty, conflict, or political turmoil—stretch the protection of our past, often to breaking point.
Placing Abusir el-Malek on the 2016 World Monuments Watch cannot repair the damage to the site, but it can potentially raise awareness about looting and highlight efforts worldwide to stem the tide of illicit trafficking of archaeological objects. Developing alternative sources of income for local communities and incentives for protecting heritage sites, coupled with enforcement of local, national, and international cultural property laws, is a vital challenge.
quote:How did they recover E-V22?
Originally posted by capra:
quote:There is only 1 copy of the Y chromosome per cell but hundreds of copies of mitochondrial chromosome, so mtDNA is much easier to recover from ancient remains. If they can't get meaningful autosomal data they can't get Y haplogroups either.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The inexplicable failure to provide the Y-DNA profiles of all 90 mummies bridles any attempt to precisely determine who these people were.
Probably they were hoping to get autosomal and Y data from a lot more of the mummies, so much being based on mtDNA weakens the results. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait for the next study.
quote:Theres going to be another study?
Originally posted by capra:
quote:There is only 1 copy of the Y chromosome per cell but hundreds of copies of mitochondrial chromosome, so mtDNA is much easier to recover from ancient remains. If they can't get meaningful autosomal data they can't get Y haplogroups either.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The inexplicable failure to provide the Y-DNA profiles of all 90 mummies bridles any attempt to precisely determine who these people were.
Probably they were hoping to get autosomal and Y data from a lot more of the mummies, so much being based on mtDNA weakens the results. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait for the next study.
quote:I hate conspiracy theories but I think these journalist are apart of some conspiracy. We all forget the recent outrage with the white washing of these Egyptian movies.
Originally posted by Elmaestro:
How didn't the researchers see this was gonna happen... I've been clinching my cheeks since I read the abstract cuz I knew these dudes would spin this shit. It's only a matter of time before we get a small segment on a popular/major news broadcasting talking about how European the ancient Egyptians were... Smh, it really is king tut R1b part 2.
I feel bad lol, welp...
quote:
Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:Theres going to be another study?
Originally posted by capra:
quote:There is only 1 copy of the Y chromosome per cell but hundreds of copies of mitochondrial chromosome, so mtDNA is much easier to recover from ancient remains. If they can't get meaningful autosomal data they can't get Y haplogroups either.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
The inexplicable failure to provide the Y-DNA profiles of all 90 mummies bridles any attempt to precisely determine who these people were.
Probably they were hoping to get autosomal and Y data from a lot more of the mummies, so much being based on mtDNA weakens the results. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait for the next study.
quote:There need to be other studies, but not done by the nutty Max Planck, who impose a Greek-Roman mythical demigoddesses of actical & strategic warfare.
Originally posted by capra:
I sure hope so! But I don't know about one, I'm just assuming. Sorry.
quote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva
Minerva (/mɪˈnɜːr.və/; Latin: [mɪˈnɛr.wa]; Etruscan: Menrva) was the Roman goddess of wisdom and strategic warfare, and the sponsor of arts, trade, and strategy. She was born from the head of Jupiter, fully armed and clad in armor.[1] After impregnating the titaness Metis, Jupiter recalled a prophecy that his own child would overthrow him.
quote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Planck_Society
The Max Planck Society for the Advancement of Science (German: Max-Planck-Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Wissenschaften e. V.; abbreviated MPG) is a formally independent non-governmental and non-profit association of German research institutes founded in 1911 as the Kaiser Wilhelm Society[1][3] and renamed the Max Planck Society in 1948 in honor of its former president, theoretical physicist Max Planck. The society is funded by the federal and state governments of Germany as well as other sources.[2][1]
quote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Wilhelm_Society
The Kaiser Wilhelm Society for the Advancement of Science (German Kaiser-Wilhelm-Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Wissenschaften) was a German scientific institution established in the German Kaiserreich in 1911. During the Third Reich it was involved in Nazi scientific operations, and after the Second World War concluded, its functions were taken over by the Max Planck Society.
The Kaiser Wilhelm Society was an umbrella organisation for many institutes, testing stations, and research units created under its authority.
quote:It indeed is.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Where is the new news here?
Looks like the same ole repackaged and distributed pseudoscience to me.
quote:https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6839/full/411726b0.html
Max Planck Society admits to its predecessor's Nazi links
Alison Abbott
Hubert Markl, president of the Max Planck Society (MPS), has accepted that the management and staff of its predecessor society were involved in Nazi war atrocities, and has apologized to their victims.His statement was in response to the findings of a group of science historians he commissioned in 1999 to investigate the role played by basic researchers of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society during the Second World War.
quote:What he claims is as real as the "pizza gate hype". The nutjob even claims that these mummies came directly from Egypt as being tested, instead of being in some obscure skull collection somewhere in the west. Well, at least he did something great, that is by showing CNN, where CNN mentioned the University of Tuebingen, which skipped on me before.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
https://i.imgbox.com/pXBnsSIz.png
More antics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WIBkwzwioA
quote:Yep, that is why I searched for the hits on both. Logically the JAMA publication didn't go viral in mainstream media. JAMA has 26.000 hits, but it's been at a time estimate of seven years.
Originally posted by BlessedbyHorus:
quote:I hate conspiracy theories but I think these journalist are apart of some conspiracy. We all forget the recent outrage with the white washing of these Egyptian movies.
Originally posted by Elmaestro:
How didn't the researchers see this was gonna happen... I've been clinching my cheeks since I read the abstract cuz I knew these dudes would spin this shit. It's only a matter of time before we get a small segment on a popular/major news broadcasting talking about how European the ancient Egyptians were... Smh, it really is king tut R1b part 2.
I feel bad lol, welp...
I believe the journalist purposely twisting the study was meant to stomp out those outrage.
But notice DNA Tribes/JAMA of Amarna Mummies and especially King Ramses III E1b1a was completely limited to internet forums outside of their obvious original sources.
quote:Not surprising, most all of these European and US institutions have similar histories.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:It indeed is.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Where is the new news here?
Looks like the same ole repackaged and distributed pseudoscience to me.
So what we have thus far:
A racist man named Felix von Luschan who used terror and collected human remains from indigenous people. This is called the Felix von Luschan Skull Collection. And we have a institution with an extremely horrendous Nazi history. An institute which managed to maskout given data, either by modern day populations (called ghost populations) or supposed Neanderthal-DNA, which was not found in Africans but anybody else, which later was debunked by other scientists in the field.
So, what are we dealing with here?
quote:https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6839/full/411726b0.html
Max Planck Society admits to its predecessor's Nazi links
Alison Abbott
Hubert Markl, president of the Max Planck Society (MPS), has accepted that the management and staff of its predecessor society were involved in Nazi war atrocities, and has apologized to their victims.His statement was in response to the findings of a group of science historians he commissioned in 1999 to investigate the role played by basic researchers of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society during the Second World War.
quote:That is a given and has to be taken into account.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
quote:Not surprising, most all of these European and US institutions have similar histories.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:It indeed is.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Where is the new news here?
Looks like the same ole repackaged and distributed pseudoscience to me.
So what we have thus far:
A racist man named Felix von Luschan who used terror and collected human remains from indigenous people. This is called the Felix von Luschan Skull Collection. And we have a institution with an extremely horrendous Nazi history. An institute which managed to maskout given data, either by modern day populations (called ghost populations) or supposed Neanderthal-DNA, which was not found in Africans but anybody else, which later was debunked by other scientists in the field.
So, what are we dealing with here?
quote:https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6839/full/411726b0.html
Max Planck Society admits to its predecessor's Nazi links
Alison Abbott
Hubert Markl, president of the Max Planck Society (MPS), has accepted that the management and staff of its predecessor society were involved in Nazi war atrocities, and has apologized to their victims.His statement was in response to the findings of a group of science historians he commissioned in 1999 to investigate the role played by basic researchers of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society during the Second World War.
quote:It needs further background investigation.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
As we see here and in xxyz's thread, they are described as if they are the result of natural selection, and all of the OCA stages are presented as "normal" genes.
But when you review the primary Gnome research objective, Medical, they are described thusly;
An anomaly occurring at this stage is responsible for oculocutaneous albinism (OCA) types 1–4. OCAs are now considered to be diseases affecting the intracellular transport of tyrosinase rather than impaired catalytic functions of melanogenesis enzymes. Indeed, even minor mutations of TYR or TYRP1 induce the same clinical phenotype as mutations responsible for the loss of protein function. All muteins are indeed recognized as abnormal by the quality control system of the endoplasmic reticulum, and are then directed to the proteasome to be degraded [14, 15]
The above descriptions are consistent in genetic medical research, and OCA is ALWAYS described as an undesirable autosomal disease.
That being true, you can deduce what the primary objective of Human Gnome medical research is; Cure/reversal.
So, the difference is clear and there is no doubt the objectives of Human Gnome medical research, which presents data more honestly, is quite different then how it is trying to be used for Anthropology, which is far less honest in it's descriptions and objectives.
* Atlas of Pigmentary Disorders
Thierry Passeron · Jean-Paul Ortonne
Switzerland 2016
quote:Yeah, that is what I considered too.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
^ Being autosomal DISEASES, they can be viewed as NORMAL as those responsible for Sickle cell or Lupus.
quote:Uh, that may seem "obvious" to you and others fooled or brainwashed by typical Democrat left-wing propaganda. The Tea Party was never a racist movement but merely a movement based on exactly what I described-- one based on ending government abuse and over-taxation. Although I was never an actual member I did give my moral support to those who were including a few friends of mine who happen to be non-white business owners. Are you aware even aware that due to Obama's policies more black owned business closed down or went bankrupt than under Bush?? Anwyay, I told my friends that their movement was screwed as soon as Sarah Palin began showing up as the organization's spokesperson the same way the 'alt-right' was screwed when Richard Spencer began holding rallies. That's when the movement branched off into an "alt-light" form. One problem with all these names is that they can easily be misused or mislabeled for something else. As someone who is neither "right" or "left" wing, I don't understand why there can be simply a common movement for individual rights for all.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
quote:"Make fascism normal again."
Originally posted by Doug M:
Bottom line, white supremacy benefits from good marketing and PR to propagate and maintain its lies and disinformation. And bottom line it is like a business. It makes sense for white Europeans to believe in such things because it is to their benefit. But folks have to also understand that in this day and age of mass media and instant communication, this is also being used to keep non white Europeans on the bandwagon. If you asked a large number of folks around the world if they would be willing to give up the technology and conveniences they have today to get rid of white supremacy a large number would say no. A large portion of the planet is perfectly fine and happy with going along with the paradigm of white domination = progress, even though in most cases white progress = non white destruction. What has created this mentality is all the last 500 years of educational, scientific, social and political domination and indoctrination based on misinformation, disinformation, lies and propaganda in support of white global domination.
quote:Do you have any idea what propaganda and mass-psychology can lead to?
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Anyone who truly believes that Europeans-Westerners are ever going to be objective and sincere on this issue is naive, ignorant and delusional.
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement and that Northern Egypt was bedevilled by a large migration of Asiatics at precisely the time period in which these mummies are from... I don't believe that they are representative of neolithic, predynastic and early dynastic Egyptians.
These European 'scientists' are anything but objective. I guarantee that if the autosomal profiles of three [3] mummies from the 25th dynasty were used to represent ancient Egypt from start to finish… there woud not be a let up on the emphasis on the salient fact that the mummies were from the 25th dynasty.
quote:Nice Video. And while watching that I found this:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:"Make fascism normal again."
Originally posted by Doug M:
Bottom line, white supremacy benefits from good marketing and PR to propagate and maintain its lies and disinformation. And bottom line it is like a business. It makes sense for white Europeans to believe in such things because it is to their benefit. But folks have to also understand that in this day and age of mass media and instant communication, this is also being used to keep non white Europeans on the bandwagon. If you asked a large number of folks around the world if they would be willing to give up the technology and conveniences they have today to get rid of white supremacy a large number would say no. A large portion of the planet is perfectly fine and happy with going along with the paradigm of white domination = progress, even though in most cases white progress = non white destruction. What has created this mentality is all the last 500 years of educational, scientific, social and political domination and indoctrination based on misinformation, disinformation, lies and propaganda in support of white global domination.
UNBOXED: The World Beyond the West & the Problem of Eurocentrism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePTwDkeydhY
And they complain about China refusing western-media in their parameters.
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
quote:https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hyksos-Egyptian-dynasty
Hyksos, dynasty of Palestinian origin that ruled northern Egypt as the 15th dynasty (c. 1630–1523 bce; see ancient Egypt: The Second Intermediate period).
[…]
The sequence of events that brought the Hyksos kings to power in Lower Egypt is not entirely clear. The 13th and 14th dynasties, which had existed concurrently in Lower Egypt, weakened and disappeared about the middle of the 17th century. Some scholars have suggested that a famine in the Delta region contributed to their decline and opened the way for the emergence of the Hyksos dynasty. From Avaris the Hyksos 15th dynasty ruled most of Lower Egypt and the Nile valley as far south as Cusae (near present-day Asyūṭ). The contemporaneous 16th-dynasty rulers—minor Hyksos kings who ruled in Upper Egypt simultaneously with those of the 15th dynasty—were probably vassals of the latter group.
quote:
Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann et al
The archaeological site Abusir el-Meleq was inhabited from at least 3250BCE until about 700CE and was of great religious significance because of its active cult to Osiris, the god of the dead, which made it an attractive burial site for centuries2. Written sources indicate that by the third century BCE Abusir el-Meleq was at the centre of a wider region that comprised the northern part of the Herakleopolites province, and had close ties with the Fayum and the Memphite provinces, involving the transport of wheat, cattle-breeding, bee-keeping and quarrying42.
Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
Analysis of mitochondrial genomes
The 90 mitochondrial genomes fulfilling our criteria [>10-fold coverage and <3% contamination} were grouped into three temporal categories based on their radiocarbon dates [Supplementary Data 1}, corresponding to Pre-Ptolemaic Periods [n=44}, the Ptolemaic Period [n=27} and the Roman Period [n=19} [Supplementary Data 1}
The affinity to the Middle East finds further support by the Y-chromosome haplogroups of the three individuals for which genome-wide data was obtained, two of which could be assigned to the Middle-Eastern haplogroup J, and one to haplogroup E1b1b1 common in North Africa [Supplementary Table 3}.
Finally, we used two methods to estimate the fractions of sub-Saharan African ancestry in ancient and modern Egyptians. Both qpAdm35 and the f4-ratio test39 reveal that modern Egyptians inherit 8% more ancestry from African ancestors than the three ancient Egyptians do, which is also consistent with the ADMIXTURE results discussed above. Absolute estimates of African ancestry using these two methods in the three ancient individuals range from 6 to 15%, and in the modern samples from 14 to 21% depending on method and choice of reference populations [see Supplementary Note 1, Supplementary Fig. 6, Supplementary Tables 5–8}. We then used ALDER40 to estimate the time of a putative pulse-like admixture event, which was estimated to have occurred 24 generations ago [700 years ago}, consistent with previous results from Henn and colleagues16. While this result by itself does not exclude the possibility of much older and continuous gene flow from African sources, the substantially lower African component in our ∼2,000-year-old ancient samples suggests that African gene flow in modern Egyptians occurred indeed predominantly within the last 2,000 years.
Finally, we analysed several functionally relevant SNPs in sample JK2911, which had low contamination and relatively high coverage. This individual had a derived allele at the SLC24A5 locus, which contributes to lighter skin pigmentation and was shown to be at high frequency in Neolithic Anatolia41, consistent with the ancestral affinity shown above. Other relevant SNPs carry the ancestral allele, including HERC2 and LCT, which suggest dark-coloured eyes and lactose intolerance [Supplementary Table 9}.
By comparing ancient individuals from Abusir el-Meleq with modern Egyptian reference populations, we found an influx of sub-Saharan African ancestry after the Roman Period, which corroborates the findings by Henn and colleagues16.
The ancient DNA data revealed a high level of affinity between the ancient inhabitants of Abusir el-Meleq and modern populations from the Near East and the Levant. This finding is pertinent in the light of the hypotheses advanced by Pagani and colleagues, who estimated that the average proportion of non-African ancestry in Egyptians was 80% and dated the midpoint of this admixture event to around 750 years ago17. Our data seem to indicate close admixture and affinity at a much earlier date, which is unsurprising given the long and complex connections between Egypt and the Middle East.
Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level.
However, our results revise previous scepticism towards the DNA preservation in ancient Egyptian mummies due to climate conditions or mummification procedures8. The methodology presented here opens up promising avenues for future genetic research and can greatly contribute towards a more accurate and refined understanding of Egypt’s population history.
quote:Is there a source, books etc where this has been summarized?
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
quote:Not surprising, most all of these European and US institutions have similar histories.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:It indeed is.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Where is the new news here?
Looks like the same ole repackaged and distributed pseudoscience to me.
So what we have thus far:
A racist man named Felix von Luschan who used terror and collected human remains from indigenous people. This is called the Felix von Luschan Skull Collection. And we have a institution with an extremely horrendous Nazi history. An institute which managed to maskout given data, either by modern day populations (called ghost populations) or supposed Neanderthal-DNA, which was not found in Africans but anybody else, which later was debunked by other scientists in the field.
So, what are we dealing with here?
quote:https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6839/full/411726b0.html
Max Planck Society admits to its predecessor's Nazi links
Alison Abbott
Hubert Markl, president of the Max Planck Society (MPS), has accepted that the management and staff of its predecessor society were involved in Nazi war atrocities, and has apologized to their victims.His statement was in response to the findings of a group of science historians he commissioned in 1999 to investigate the role played by basic researchers of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society during the Second World War.
quote:So, what was the purpose to test on SSA-DNA, done by Verena J. Schuenemann et al?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The right wing in the U.S. will spin history in predictable fashion.
The source of the information is the article, which is posted in the opening post of the thread, excerpt below
Finally, we used two methods to estimate the fractions of sub-Saharan African ancestry in ancient and modern Egyptians. Both qpAdm35 and the f4-ratio test39 reveal that modern Egyptians inherit 8% more ancestry from African ancestors than the three ancient Egyptians do, which is also consistent with the ADMIXTURE results discussed above.
quote:Not to my knowledge is there a condensed version of all the Europeans and Americans who have been shown conclusively to be racist Nazis.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Is there a source, books etc where this has been summarized?
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
quote:Not surprising, most all of these European and US institutions have similar histories.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:It indeed is.
Originally posted by Narmerthoth:
Where is the new news here?
Looks like the same ole repackaged and distributed pseudoscience to me.
So what we have thus far:
A racist man named Felix von Luschan who used terror and collected human remains from indigenous people. This is called the Felix von Luschan Skull Collection. And we have a institution with an extremely horrendous Nazi history. An institute which managed to maskout given data, either by modern day populations (called ghost populations) or supposed Neanderthal-DNA, which was not found in Africans but anybody else, which later was debunked by other scientists in the field.
So, what are we dealing with here?
quote:https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6839/full/411726b0.html
Max Planck Society admits to its predecessor's Nazi links
Alison Abbott
Hubert Markl, president of the Max Planck Society (MPS), has accepted that the management and staff of its predecessor society were involved in Nazi war atrocities, and has apologized to their victims.His statement was in response to the findings of a group of science historians he commissioned in 1999 to investigate the role played by basic researchers of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society during the Second World War.
quote:If your friends are associated with the 4chan, reddit, etc. communities, they'll have a steep uphill battle ahead of them. From what I have seen, 4channers and their ilk are the sort of people who have already made up their minds about Egypt and the alleged natural inferiority of Africans. Reddit seems to be more politically moderate and diverse, but the prevailing sentiment I've seen over there is that black Egypt is "Afrocentric/SJW pseudohistory". Still, I commend your comrades for trying to do something about it.
Anyway, all this political crap which I thought would end after Trump's election has gotten worse and the point I'm making now is you have these white's-right groups hijacking scientific findings and misrepresenting them to many popular alternative media outlets. As I said, I know folks who are working to correct these fallacies and distortions put out by these white nationalists, but the problem is even if the media outlets do correct themselves they usually only do so in the written part of their sites and don't make their corrections in their actual broadcasts where it counts so the disinformation still remains disseminated.
quote:What's up DJ?
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Uh, that may seem "obvious" to you and others fooled or brainwashed by typical Democrat left-wing propaganda. The Tea Party was never a racist movement but merely a movement based on exactly what I described-- one based on ending government abuse and over-taxation. Although I was never an actual member I did give my moral support to those who were including a few friends of mine who happen to be non-white business owners. Are you aware even aware that due to Obama's policies more black owned business closed down or went bankrupt than under Bush?? Anwyay, I told my friends that their movement was screwed as soon as Sarah Palin began showing up as the organization's spokesperson the same way the 'alt-right' was screwed when Richard Spencer began holding rallies. That's when the movement branched off into an "alt-light" form. One problem with all these names is that they can easily be misused or mislabeled for something else. As someone who is neither "right" or "left" wing, I don't understand why there can be simply a common movement for individual rights for all.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
Anyway, all this political crap which I thought would end after Trump's election has gotten worse and the point I'm making now is you have these white's-right groups hijacking scientific findings and misrepresenting them to many popular alternative media outlets. As I said, I know folks who are working to correct these fallacies and distortions put out by these white nationalists, but the problem is even if the media outlets do correct themselves they usually only do so in the written part of their sites and don't make their corrections in their actual broadcasts where it counts so the disinformation still remains disseminated.
Lioness has provided excellent examples of such disinformation.
So now the Abusir mummies are proof that Egypt was founded by "Central Europeans"??! Who is going to let Alex Jones know this mistake?? And again it's not just him. Even small time Youtubers who are popular and some of whom I watch from time to time have fallen prey to the lies.
By the way, if you guys want to discuss the Nature study on the Abusir mummies I would be glad to discuss it in its original thread here.
quote:I think the answer to counter the misinformation is to have "grass-roots" (I hate the term btw) folks in the net disseminating the proper info as well as responsible researchers working for the journalists who broadcast the info. The latter is more difficult than the former. As I have said, I've been told by my sources that the researchers for these news outlets are themselves Euronuts so these news outlets have been compromised.
Originally posted by Swenet:
What's up DJ?
How, in your view, should these results be presented to the public? And what outcome, as far as educating the public, are you going for? What amount of progress would you consider a success?
Personally, I don't really care at this point how the information is presented. In my view, this is not a subject someone can present to laypeople on a silver platter. If laypeople want to understand it, they have to do their homework and peel away lots of layers of society's brainwashing about race and their own personal biases. And most people aren't willing to do that so people are just going to take 2% of what you say and spin the rest. Case in point, see how they're spinning in the vid below, after everything they heard Keita say (watch from beginning to end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c__JhIjz9g
^So, even when it's presented 'correctly' by someone like Keita, it still doesn't lead to anything productive. And notice that people on ES are trying to do the same thing as the people in that audience (and what's sad is that some are lying and trying to hide their agenda), so it has nothing to do with a lack of experience. I've interacted with enough people on this subject to know that people tend to misrepresent this information (initially, due to a lack of understanding and as they learn more they start doing it deliberately). The way I see it, this is something truth seekers have to study for themselves and/or with a small group of like-minded people. That is the best it's going to get as far as making the public understand. If you're lucky you might stumble on a self-critical and open-minded 'public' of about 3 people.
quote:Forgot to include the other Q&A sections of that lecture.
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:What's up DJ?
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Uh, that may seem "obvious" to you and others fooled or brainwashed by typical Democrat left-wing propaganda. The Tea Party was never a racist movement but merely a movement based on exactly what I described-- one based on ending government abuse and over-taxation. Although I was never an actual member I did give my moral support to those who were including a few friends of mine who happen to be non-white business owners. Are you aware even aware that due to Obama's policies more black owned business closed down or went bankrupt than under Bush?? Anwyay, I told my friends that their movement was screwed as soon as Sarah Palin began showing up as the organization's spokesperson the same way the 'alt-right' was screwed when Richard Spencer began holding rallies. That's when the movement branched off into an "alt-light" form. One problem with all these names is that they can easily be misused or mislabeled for something else. As someone who is neither "right" or "left" wing, I don't understand why there can be simply a common movement for individual rights for all.
Originally posted by Mansamusa:
It was obvious from day one that the Alt Right was a racist movement, just like the Tea Party.
Anyway, all this political crap which I thought would end after Trump's election has gotten worse and the point I'm making now is you have these white's-right groups hijacking scientific findings and misrepresenting them to many popular alternative media outlets. As I said, I know folks who are working to correct these fallacies and distortions put out by these white nationalists, but the problem is even if the media outlets do correct themselves they usually only do so in the written part of their sites and don't make their corrections in their actual broadcasts where it counts so the disinformation still remains disseminated.
Lioness has provided excellent examples of such disinformation.
So now the Abusir mummies are proof that Egypt was founded by "Central Europeans"??! Who is going to let Alex Jones know this mistake?? And again it's not just him. Even small time Youtubers who are popular and some of whom I watch from time to time have fallen prey to the lies.
By the way, if you guys want to discuss the Nature study on the Abusir mummies I would be glad to discuss it in its original thread here.
How, in your view, should these results be presented to the public? And what outcome, as far as educating the public, are you going for? What amount of progress would you consider a success?
Personally, I don't really care at this point how the information is presented. In my view, this is not a subject someone can present to laypeople on a silver platter. If laypeople want to understand it, they have to do their homework and peel away lots of layers of society's brainwashing about race and their own personal biases. And most people aren't willing to do that so people are just going to take 2% of what you say and spin the rest. Case in point, see how they're spinning in the vid below, after everything they heard Keita say (watch from beginning to end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c__JhIjz9g
^So, even when it's presented 'correctly' by someone like Keita, it still doesn't lead to anything productive. And notice that people on ES are trying to do the same thing as the people in that audience (and what's sad is that some are lying and trying to hide their agenda), so it has nothing to do with a lack of experience. I've interacted with enough people on this subject to know that people tend to misrepresent this information (initially, due to a lack of understanding and as they learn more they start doing it deliberately). The way I see it, this is something truth seekers have to study for themselves and/or with a small group of like-minded people. That is the best it's going to get as far as making the public understand. If you're lucky you might stumble on a self-critical and open-minded 'public' of about 3 people.
quote:Of course knowledgeable people could post accurate information on blogging platforms or social media sites. But even if you could find enough knowledgeable people to do this and successfully attract a lot of readers, there's no guarantee these readers will take from it the right message. I believe what Swenet was trying to say was that, no matter how you try to present the information, people are going to read whatever they want into it. Most of them have already made up their minds anyway.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:I think the answer to counter the misinformation is to have "grass-roots" (I hate the term btw) folks in the net disseminating the proper info as well as responsible researchers working for the journalists who broadcast the info. The latter is more difficult than the former. As I have said, I've been told by my sources that the researchers for these news outlets are themselves Euronuts so these news outlets have been compromised.
Originally posted by Swenet:
What's up DJ?
How, in your view, should these results be presented to the public? And what outcome, as far as educating the public, are you going for? What amount of progress would you consider a success?
Personally, I don't really care at this point how the information is presented. In my view, this is not a subject someone can present to laypeople on a silver platter. If laypeople want to understand it, they have to do their homework and peel away lots of layers of society's brainwashing about race and their own personal biases. And most people aren't willing to do that so people are just going to take 2% of what you say and spin the rest. Case in point, see how they're spinning in the vid below, after everything they heard Keita say (watch from beginning to end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c__JhIjz9g
^So, even when it's presented 'correctly' by someone like Keita, it still doesn't lead to anything productive. And notice that people on ES are trying to do the same thing as the people in that audience (and what's sad is that some are lying and trying to hide their agenda), so it has nothing to do with a lack of experience. I've interacted with enough people on this subject to know that people tend to misrepresent this information (initially, due to a lack of understanding and as they learn more they start doing it deliberately). The way I see it, this is something truth seekers have to study for themselves and/or with a small group of like-minded people. That is the best it's going to get as far as making the public understand. If you're lucky you might stumble on a self-critical and open-minded 'public' of about 3 people.
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Tyranno, you may be right but I think one problem is that most folks in the net tend to have too short attention spans to read entire articles let alone the actual source papers so they instead fall for inaccurate or erroneous headlines. If folks in the know were to simply come up with better more accurate headlines giving people the heads up then this would be a huge accomplishment. But even then, the damage is already done. As I said, it's easier to disseminate info regardless of accuracy than to correct disseminated bad info. The cat is already out of the bag so to speak.
quote:^ No, the authors of the articles said this in the abstract. This is not a case of misinterpretation by the media.
Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
--Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann et al
quote:This was the political intend, for publishing this paper. It now has a live on its own.
Originally posted by Tyrannohotep:
[ Of course knowledgeable people could post accurate information on blogging platforms or social media sites. But even if you could find enough knowledgeable people to do this and successfully attract a lot of readers, there's no guarantee these readers will take from it the right message. I believe what Swenet was trying to say was that, no matter how you try to present the information, people are going to read whatever they want into it. Most of them have already made up their minds anyway.
quote:So true.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Tyranno, you may be right but I think one problem is that most folks in the net tend to have too short attention spans to read entire articles let alone the actual source papers so they instead fall for inaccurate or erroneous headlines. If folks in the know were to simply come up with better more accurate headlines giving people the heads up then this would be a huge accomplishment. But even then, the damage is already done. As I said, it's easier to disseminate info regardless of accuracy than to correct disseminated bad info. The cat is already out of the bag so to speak.
quote:Lioness, I am well aware of what the authors wrote. My problem is how the findings are presented. Nowhere does it say Pharaonic civilization or the Pharoahs themselves were Europeans as what the distorters are saying.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Tyranno, you may be right but I think one problem is that most folks in the net tend to have too short attention spans to read entire articles let alone the actual source papers so they instead fall for inaccurate or erroneous headlines. If folks in the know were to simply come up with better more accurate headlines giving people the heads up then this would be a huge accomplishment. But even then, the damage is already done. As I said, it's easier to disseminate info regardless of accuracy than to correct disseminated bad info. The cat is already out of the bag so to speak.quote:^ No, the authors of the articles said this in the abstract. This is not a case of misinterpretation by the media.
Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
--Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann et al
They made big assumptions about Egyptian history in general with insufficient evidence.
quote:Yes you are right, the authors put more emphasis on " Near Easterners" but they also said:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Lioness, I am well aware of what the authors wrote. My problem is how the findings are presented. Nowhere does it say Pharaonic civilization or the Pharoahs themselves were Europeans as what the distorters are saying.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Tyranno, you may be right but I think one problem is that most folks in the net tend to have too short attention spans to read entire articles let alone the actual source papers so they instead fall for inaccurate or erroneous headlines. If folks in the know were to simply come up with better more accurate headlines giving people the heads up then this would be a huge accomplishment. But even then, the damage is already done. As I said, it's easier to disseminate info regardless of accuracy than to correct disseminated bad info. The cat is already out of the bag so to speak.quote:^ No, the authors of the articles said this in the abstract. This is not a case of misinterpretation by the media.
Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
--Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann et al
They made big assumptions about Egyptian history in general with insufficient evidence.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Yes you are right, the authors put more emphasis on " Near Easterners" but they also said:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Lioness, I am well aware of what the authors wrote. My problem is how the findings are presented. Nowhere does it say Pharaonic civilization or the Pharoahs themselves were Europeans as what the distorters are saying.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ Tyranno, you may be right but I think one problem is that most folks in the net tend to have too short attention spans to read entire articles let alone the actual source papers so they instead fall for inaccurate or erroneous headlines. If folks in the know were to simply come up with better more accurate headlines giving people the heads up then this would be a huge accomplishment. But even then, the damage is already done. As I said, it's easier to disseminate info regardless of accuracy than to correct disseminated bad info. The cat is already out of the bag so to speak.quote:^ No, the authors of the articles said this in the abstract. This is not a case of misinterpretation by the media.
Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.
--Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann et al
They made big assumptions about Egyptian history in general with insufficient evidence.
"When comparing this pattern with modern Egyptians, we find that the ancient Egyptians are more closely related to all modern and ancient European populations that we tested [Fig. 5b}, likely due to the additional African component in the modern population observed above."
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
quote:The site has mummies of different periods and samples were taken from mummies of different periods.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
quote:These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The site has mummies of different periods and samples were taken from mummies of different periods.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
You are calling it a Hyksos site for political reasons
quote:Were those dynasties Egyptian or foreign? It's a fact that Asiatics from the Levant migrated into Northern Egypt en mass around the 12th dynasty and were only subdued (politically) around the 18th dynasty. Asiatic migration into Egypt was a gradual trickle prior to this period going all the way back to the predynastic.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The site has mummies of different periods and samples were taken from mummies of different periods.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
You are calling it a Hyksos site for political reasons
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
quote:--Verena J. Schuenemann et al.
Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant. 54
quote:I thought that four [4] of the mtdna samples were from the New Kingdom. In either case these samples were all from periods of foreign domination.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The site has mummies of different periods and samples were taken from mummies of different periods.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlement
You are calling it a Hyksos site for political reasons
quote:It's a general statement . It doesn't say that Abusir el-Meleq was a Hyksos settlement.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlementquote:--Verena J. Schuenemann et al.
Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant. 54
Side note 54:
Mumford, G. D. Egypt and the Levant, The Oxford Handbook of the Archaeology of the Levant: c. 8000-332 BCE Oxford (2014).
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-the-archaeology-of-the-levant-9780199212972?cc=nl&lang=en&
quote:The Fifteenth Dynasty of Egypt was the first Hyksos dynasty ( 1650 to 1550 BC) a period of about 100 years
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
quote:How many times must you be told that Asiatics from the Levant infiltrated into Northern Egypt on a *large-scale* around 1800 bc?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:It's a general statement . It doesn't say that Abusir el-Meleq was a Hyksos settlement.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlementquote:--Verena J. Schuenemann et al.
Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant. 54
Side note 54:
Mumford, G. D. Egypt and the Levant, The Oxford Handbook of the Archaeology of the Levant: c. 8000-332 BCE Oxford (2014).
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-the-archaeology-of-the-levant-9780199212972?cc=nl&lang=en&
quote:The Fifteenth Dynasty of Egypt was the first Hyksos dynasty ( 1650 to 1550 BC) a period of about 100 years
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
Amarna is 18th Dynsaty
including the Amenhoteps, Thutmoses, Hatshepsut, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun and others
The Amarna Kings were stricken from the Kings list
The 19th and 20th included the Ramesses and Setis and others
The date 769 BC, around the mummies analyzed is far later than the Hyksos is around the Libyan period and prior to the Nubian but the Libyans were ruling up north in the Delta not where Abusir el-Meleq is which was an important religious and trading centre.
"The genetics of the Abusir el-Meleq community did not undergo any major shifts during the 1,300 year timespan we studied, suggesting that the population remained genetically relatively unaffected by foreign conquest and rule," says Wolfgang Haak, group leader at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena.
quote:what cataract is the lowest point geographically of what you are calling "Northern Egypt" ?
Originally posted by sudaniya:
How many times must you be told that Asiatics from the Levant infiltrated into Northern Egypt on a *large-scale* around 1800 bc?
Levantine populations imposed themselves demographically and followed that with political domination around 700 bc. Why would there be any subsequent major shifts?
quote:It's an irrelevant point but once in a while I like to mention it because some people are unaware of it. It comes out of the backlash against Akenhaten's religious policies and kings associated with him. Looking at this period today we are typically not biased as to who was on or off the king's list for political reasons.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
lioness
Question:
What was the point of mentioning the fact that Armana kings were "stricken" from the list? Are you trying to suggest something beyond the religious motivations behind their names being removed?
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
How many times must you be told that Asiatics from the Levant infiltrated into Northern Egypt on a *large-scale* around 1800 bc?
Levantine populations imposed themselves demographically and followed that with political domination around 700 bc. Why would there be any subsequent major shifts?
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Northern Egypt is any area North of Asyut; I tend to group Qena, Luxor, Edfu, Kom Ombo, Esna and Aswan into their own cluster -- the core South.
quote:From the study:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
How many times must you be told that Asiatics from the Levant infiltrated into Northern Egypt on a *large-scale* around 1800 bc?
Levantine populations imposed themselves demographically and followed that with political domination around 700 bc. Why would there be any subsequent major shifts?quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Northern Egypt is any area North of Asyut; I tend to group Qena, Luxor, Edfu, Kom Ombo, Esna and Aswan into their own cluster -- the core South.
Asyut
So around 1800 B.C., near the end of the 12th dynasty, near the beginning of the 13th in the Northern part of Egypt, the people of Egypt since then have become significantly admixed with Asiatics from the Levant.
What haplgroups do you think represent the infiltration of these Asiatics?
quote:Only one [1] of the three [3] had a Y-DNA haplogroup indigenous to Africa.
"The affinity to the Middle East finds further support by the Y-chromosome haplogroups of the three individuals for which genome-wide data was obtained, two of which could be assigned to the Middle-Eastern haplogroup J, and one to haplogroup E1b1b1 common in North Africa"
quote:So why didn't they invetigate Amenhoteps, Thutmoses, Hatshepsut, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun and had others tested?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The 18th dynasty was founded by Ahmose I who expelled the Hyksos (1550 BC)
Amarna is 18th Dynsaty
including the Amenhoteps, Thutmoses, Hatshepsut, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun and others
The Amarna Kings were stricken from the Kings list
quote:LOL What they say is:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:It's a general statement . It doesn't say that Abusir el-Meleq was a Hyksos settlement.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Abusir was a Hyksos site. Even posters on Forumbiodiversity admit to this fact.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Abusir was not a Hyksos settlement
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Based on the fact that Abusir was a Hyksos settlementquote:--Verena J. Schuenemann et al.
Especially from the second millennium BCE onwards, there were intense, historically- and archaeologically documented contacts, including the large-scale immigration of Canaanite populations, known as the Hyksos, into Lower Egypt, whose origins lie in the Middle Bronze Age Levant. 54
Side note 54:
Mumford, G. D. Egypt and the Levant, The Oxford Handbook of the Archaeology of the Levant: c. 8000-332 BCE Oxford (2014).
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-oxford-handbook-of-the-archaeology-of-the-levant-9780199212972?cc=nl&lang=en&
quote:The Fifteenth Dynasty of Egypt was the first Hyksos dynasty ( 1650 to 1550 BC) a period of about 100 years
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
The 18th dynasty was founded by Ahmose I who expelled the Hyksos (1550 BC)
Amarna is 18th Dynsaty
including the Amenhoteps, Thutmoses, Hatshepsut, Akhenaten, Tutankhamun and others
The Amarna Kings were stricken from the Kings list
The 19th and 20th included the Ramesses and Setis and others
The date 769 BC, around the mummies analyzed is far later than the Hyksos is around the Libyan period and prior to the Nubian but the Libyans were ruling up north in the Delta not where Abusir el-Meleq is which was an important religious and trading centre.
quote:They themselves stated later that:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
"The genetics of the Abusir el-Meleq community did not undergo any major shifts during the 1,300 year timespan we studied, suggesting that the population remained genetically relatively unaffected by foreign conquest and rule," says Wolfgang Haak, group leader at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena.
quote:http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-05-31/who-were-the-ancient-egyptians/8572076
And yet, at some point in the past 1,500 years, there has been a major addition of sub-Saharan genetic material — largely West-African Yoruba — into Egypt's population.
quote:That is certainly an interesting question, considering the fact that the first cataracts arose from the far South, in what is considered North Sudan.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:It's an irrelevant point but once in a while I like to mention it because some people are unaware of it. It comes out of the backlash against Akenhaten's religious policies and kings associated with him. Looking at this period today we are typically not biased as to who was on or off the king's list for political reasons.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
lioness
Question:
What was the point of mentioning the fact that Armana kings were "stricken" from the list? Are you trying to suggest something beyond the religious motivations behind their names being removed?
what cataract is the lowest point geographically of what you are calling "Northern Egypt" ?
quote:U6a2 is incorrect, that one is found solely in the Sahara-Sahel region and compress with populations who carry E-V22. The bigotry in the paper is amazing.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:From the study:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
How many times must you be told that Asiatics from the Levant infiltrated into Northern Egypt on a *large-scale* around 1800 bc?
Levantine populations imposed themselves demographically and followed that with political domination around 700 bc. Why would there be any subsequent major shifts?quote:
Originally posted by sudaniya:
Northern Egypt is any area North of Asyut; I tend to group Qena, Luxor, Edfu, Kom Ombo, Esna and Aswan into their own cluster -- the core South.
Asyut
So around 1800 B.C., near the end of the 12th dynasty, near the beginning of the 13th in the Northern part of Egypt, the people of Egypt since then have become significantly admixed with Asiatics from the Levant.
What haplgroups do you think represent the infiltration of these Asiatics?
quote:Only one [1] of the three [3] had a Y-DNA haplogroup indigenous to Africa.
"The affinity to the Middle East finds further support by the Y-chromosome haplogroups of the three individuals for which genome-wide data was obtained, two of which could be assigned to the Middle-Eastern haplogroup J, and one to haplogroup E1b1b1 common in North Africa"
The mtdna haplogroups clearly demonstrating Asiatics would include J-T, H and K-U.
PS: I think extensive admixture was mostly confined to Northern Egypt. Oshun provided some very informative posts on this matter and seems to be of the reasonable opinion that Northern Egypt (the Delta in particular) must have interracted with the Levant as far back as the predynastic.
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
quote:—B Secher - 2014 et al.
"U6a2 comprises mainly of Ethiopian sequences with some outsiders"
"In the present study, the U6a2 branch shows an important radiation centered in Ethiopia (Table 2) at around 20 kya (see Additional file 2)."
quote:—Rando JC1, Pinto F, González AM, Hernández M, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Bandelt HJ.
The group L3c of Watson et al. (1997) is renamed here as U6 (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U.
quote:Cool, anyway.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
I cannot see any rational reason why Russia should not remain communist, if she wants to, within a world federation. ... If the Baruch proposals are finally rejected by Russia, then, in my judgment, world peace is impossible : it can only ... If for the Russians the veto-power is sacrosanct, that is only another way of saying that for them the claim to unrestricted national sovereignty is ... If that claim is maintained, the proposal to outlaw the atomic bomb becomes so much pious nonsense.
quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
If you go back and read the old Afrocentricist like John Henrik Clarke et al. You will never find them claiming the Delta as Black African. Neither did Massey for that matter. With a careful reading you will find they claim Egypt/ Kemet was an inner African creation and culture. In fact the latest genetics studies prove this point sufficiently for me. What is the material culture from these Near Easterners? What is their culture and language?
The North African's that Menes conquered where like hillbillies, I will call them Swampbillies.
quote:
Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated43,55, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society55. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society55. Especially in the Roman Period there may have been significant legal and social incentives to marry within one’s ethnic group, as individuals with Roman citizenship had to marry other Roman citizens to pass on their citizenship. Such policies are likely to have affected the intermarriage of Romans and non-Romans to a degree55. Additional genetic studies on ancient human remains from Egypt are needed with extensive geographical, social and chronological spread in order to expand our current picture in variety, accuracy and detail.
quote:Nearly right if you look at the 3 mummies for genome analysis
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
quote:including
In order to analyse the nuclear DNA we selected 40 samples with high mtDNA coverage and low mtDNA contamination.
quote:Do the the Abusir Mummies have the core Coptic element? Or are they more related to later European groups?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
If you go back and read the old Afrocentricist like John Henrik Clarke et al. You will never find them claiming the Delta as Black African. Neither did Massey for that matter. With a careful reading you will find they claim Egypt/ Kemet was an inner African creation and culture. In fact the latest genetics studies prove this point sufficiently for me. What is the material culture from these Near Easterners? What is their culture and language?
The North African's that Menes conquered where like hillbillies, I will call them Swampbillies.
Here is the location of the mummies that were analyzed, Abusir el-Meleq, near Fayum
quote:
Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated43,55, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society55. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society55. Especially in the Roman Period there may have been significant legal and social incentives to marry within one’s ethnic group, as individuals with Roman citizenship had to marry other Roman citizens to pass on their citizenship. Such policies are likely to have affected the intermarriage of Romans and non-Romans to a degree55. Additional genetic studies on ancient human remains from Egypt are needed with extensive geographical, social and chronological spread in order to expand our current picture in variety, accuracy and detail.
quote:Supplementary Table 1 lists a few mummies 806 - 784 BC but they are not much older
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
quote:I have edited my previous post, take a look for additional information
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Do the the Abusir Mummies have the core Coptic element? Or are they more related to later European groups?
quote:
Copts, with a strong individual heterogeneity, are more similar to Arabs (FST = 0.019) than to any other East African population....
The North African/Middle Eastern genetic component is identified especially in Copts. The Coptic population present in Sudan is an example of a recent migration from Egypt over the past two centuries. They are close to Egyptians in the PCA, but remain a differentiated cluster, showing their own component at k = 4 (Fig. 3). Copts lack the influence found in Egyptians from Qatar, an Arabic population. It may suggest that Copts have a genetic composition that could resemble the ancestral Egyptian population, without the present strong Arab influence.
--The genetics of East African populations: a Nilo-Saharan component in the African genetic landscape
Begoña Dobon et al.
quote:Stop your jokes,
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
If you go back and read the old Afrocentricist like John Henrik Clarke et al. You will never find them claiming the Delta as Black African. Neither did Massey for that matter. With a careful reading you will find they claim Egypt/ Kemet was an inner African creation and culture. In fact the latest genetics studies prove this point sufficiently for me. What is the material culture from these Near Easterners? What is their culture and language?
The North African's that Menes conquered where like hillbillies, I will call them Swampbillies.
Here is the location of the mummies that were analyzed, Abusir el-Meleq, near Fayum
quote:
Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level. It is possible that the genetic impact of Greek and Roman immigration was more pronounced in the north-western Delta and the Fayum, where most Greek and Roman settlement concentrated43,55, or among the higher classes of Egyptian society55. Under Ptolemaic and Roman rule, ethnic descent was crucial to belonging to an elite group and afforded a privileged position in society55. Especially in the Roman Period there may have been significant legal and social incentives to marry within one’s ethnic group, as individuals with Roman citizenship had to marry other Roman citizens to pass on their citizenship. Such policies are likely to have affected the intermarriage of Romans and non-Romans to a degree55. Additional genetic studies on ancient human remains from Egypt are needed with extensive geographical, social and chronological spread in order to expand our current picture in variety, accuracy and detail.
quote:Nearly right if you look at the 3 mummies for genome analysis
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
These mummies fall within the range of the same late dynasty. The oldest specimen in the Abusir samples goes back to 769 B.C.
Supplementary Table 1
JK2888 BC 97-2 Hap U6a2
JK2134 BC 776-569 Hap J1d
JK 2911 BC 769-560 Hap M1a2a
.
.
However 40 mummies are analyzed, a couple quite a bit older
quote:including
In order to analyse the nuclear DNA we selected 40 samples with high mtDNA coverage and low mtDNA contamination.
JK2916 BC 1111-998 Hap R0
JK2885 BC 1304-1136 Hap R2'JT
https://images.nature.com/original/nature-assets/ncomms/2017/170530/ncomms15694/extref/ncomms15694-s1.xlsx
quote:Here are the other dates
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
JK2888 BC 97-2 Hap U6a2 and the companion E-V22 go back 10Kya in the region of Northeast Africa, so again it's pure bigotry. [/QB]
quote:It's every important to understand the core and history of this "science".
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
This field of DNA is full of ethnocentric tribalism, this is ugly just freakin ugly.. and some want to point fingers at Afrocentrics... LAWD.. The title says it all
In the book The Real Eve, Stephen Oppenheimer refers to haplogroup N as "Nasreen" as haplogroup N may have arisen near the Persian Gulf. In his popular book The Seven Daughters of Eve, Bryan Sykes named the originator of this mtDNA haplogroup "Naomi". MTDNA arising in the Persian gulf then turning back to Africa makes this genetic line European how? Oh yes, it is not Subsarahan... lol..
If you go back and read the old Afrocentricist like John Henrik Clarke et al. You will never find them claiming the Delta as Black African. Neither did Massey for that matter. With a careful reading you will find they claim Egypt/ Kemet was an inner African creation and culture. In fact the latest genetics studies prove this point sufficiently for me. What is the material culture from these Near Easterners? What is their culture and language?
The North African's that Menes conquered where like hillbillies, I will call them Swampbillies.
quote:—Sergio Tofanelli et al.
Haplogroup J
To resume, our results clearly reject the scenario put forward so far of a strict correlation between the Arab expansion in historical times and the overall pattern of distribution of J1-related chromosomes. Similarly, the causal association between STR-defined haplotypes and ethnic groups appear without any robust support, making its use inadequate for forensic or genealogical purposes. Instead, J1 variation provided the genetic background to correlate climatic changes to human demographic and socio-cultural events scarcely documented in the archaeological record – the dispersal of hunter gatherers after the termination of glacial conditions in the late Pleistocene and the desertification-driven retreat of tribes of Saharan and Arabian foragers in the transition to a food-producing economy.
quote:Cool,
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Here are the other dates
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
JK2888 BC 97-2 Hap U6a2 and the companion E-V22 go back 10Kya in the region of Northeast Africa, so again it's pure bigotry.
JK2916 BC 1111-998 Hap R0
JK2885 BC 1304-1136 Hap R2'JT
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
quote:—Verena J. Schuenemann
The ancient DNA data revealed a high level of affinity between the ancient inhabitants of Abusir el-Meleq and modern populations from the Near East and the Levant.
[…]
The closest populations on the MDS with respect to our ancient meta population (AEGY) are modern populations from Saudi-Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and other Near-East populations, whereas the individuals from another ancient population from Turkey (TRO) show more relatedness to modern North-African and populations from the Levantine. For details on the geographic mapping, see Supplementary Note 4.
quote:—Viktor Cerny´
Population comparisons
Based on FST values, the mitochondrial genetic diversity of Soqotra is statistically different (P \ 0.01) from the comparative populations. An MDS plot of FST values shows that the Soqotra sample is clearly distinct from all sub-Saharan, North African, Middle East, and Indian populations (see Fig. 2). High differentiation of the East African groups such as the Sandawe, Hadza, Turu, Datog, and Burunge is shown on the left side of the graph. However, there is a general similarity of the remaining sub-Saharan African populations, particularly those from the Sahel band and the Chad Basin (with the exception of the Fulani nomads). Subsequently, there is a transitional zone formed by the populations from Ethiopia and the Nile Valley but also by some Yemeni groups, particularly the ones from the eastern parts of the country (Hadramawt).
Finally, the cluster on the right part of the graph is composed by the Indian populations on the top, the Near and Middle Eastern groups in the middle and the populations of the Arabian peninsula at the bottom; Yemeni Jews being slightly different. The only outlier within the region of southwestern Asia is the Kalash sample that is situated on the extreme right part of the graph (see also Quintana-Murci et al., 2004). There is a general cline among all populations in the MDS plot from the Soqotri population to a cluster of Middle East and North African populations that splits into sub-Saharan and Indian populations.
Population differentiation of Soqotra from African, Middle East and Indian populations based on NRY-SNP data manifests a similar picture although the comparative populations are different and fewer than in the mitochondrial DNA analysis (see Fig. 3). A comparison of FST values shows that the only population that is not significantly different from Soqotra is that from Yemen (P [ 0.01). Similarly to mtDNA MDS plot, we observe a cline from the Soqotri population to a cluster of Middle East and North African populations that splits into sub- Saharan and Indian populations.
Phylogenetic affiliations
Within the Soqotri samples, we identified haplotypes belonging to three of the main branches of the mtDNA phylogeny (macrohaplogroups L, N, and R); notably haplogroup M is absent (Table 2). There are only two sub- Saharan L haplotypes and they do not carry the 3594HpaI mutation so their classification is L3*; these haplotypes do not contain the specific mutations of L5b (23594HpaI) (Kivisild et al., 2004) and therefore they are possibly L3h2 as they both contain substitutions at 16111, 16184, and 16304 (see Behar et al., 2008). Macro-haplogroup N is represented by three different haplotypes of which only one can be unambiguously classified as N1a (it contains HVS-I motif 16147G-16172-16223-16248-16355). Two other N haplotypes have never been found outside Soqotra (see Table 2).
The most widespread mtDNA types in Soqotra belong to macrohaplogroup R (Table 2). The majority of R haplotypes can be classified as R0a [previously known as (preHV)1]. Three of the R haplotypes have not been previously reported. A network analysis of all Soqotri R0a haplotypes with additional sequences from Africa and Asia (see Fig. 4) shows a time to most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) of 23,339 6 8,232 YBP for R0a. It is shown that the majority of Soqotri R0a haplotypes fall into clade R0a1 (defined by variant 16355) whose TMRCA is 11,418 6 4,198 YBP. Furthermore, within R0a1, the unique Soqotri haplotypes form a new clade that is defined by variant 16172 and that we have named R0a1a1. Abu-Amero et al. (2007) identified a hap- lotype defined by variant 16355 and named it (preHV)1a1, thus it corresponds to R0a1a using the newer nomenclature and the unique Soqotri haplotypes are derived from this lineage). This Soqotri-specific clade has a very young TMRCA (3,363 6 2,378 YBP) that suggests the R0a1a1 haplotypes evolved on Soqotra and have not dispersed elsewhere. Two other Soqotri R haplotypes are not classified further than R* and are quite common in neighboring populations. Five haplotypes within macrohaplogroup R carry the 4216N1aIII variant that places them in clade JT. Of the JT haplotypes, two are unique to Soqotra; J1b is represented by two individuals and T* is represented by one individual.
The majority of NRY haplotypes in Soqotra belong to haplogroup J (85.7%), with most (45 out of 54) unclassified as J*(xJ1,J2) and a few (the remaining 9 samples) classified as J1 (see Fig. 5). It is interesting to note that NRY haplotypes lacking both M172 and M267, as in our unclassified J*, have not been previously identified on the Arabian Peninsula (Cadenas et al., 2008). Haplogroup E is represented at a frequency of 9.5% and three other haplogroups, F*(xJ,K), K*(xO,P) and R*(xR1b), are present in one individual each. It is worth noting that none of the ancient African haplogroups (A and B) were observed in Soqotra.
quote:LOL and the Basal for U6*, U is most likely in Africa going back prox. 70Kya.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Basal U6* was found in a Romanian specimen of ancient DNA (Peștera Muierilor) dated to 35,000 years ago.
quote:—Rando JC1, Pinto F, González AM, Hernández M, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Bandelt HJ.
The group L3c of Watson et al. (1997) is renamed here as U6 (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U.
quote:why if the oldest specimen was found in Romania dated to 35k ?
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
U is most likely in Africa. [/QB]
quote:So?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:why if the oldest specimen was found in Romania dated to 35k ? [/QB]
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
U is most likely in Africa.
quote:Maca-Meyer.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
In spite of the highest diversity of Iberian U6, Maca-Meyer argues for a Near East origin of this clade based on the highest diversity of subclade U6a in that region
Oh gosh. Dah "supreme caucasian".quote:—Rando JC1, Pinto F, González AM, Hernández M, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Bandelt HJ.
The group L3c of Watson et al. (1997) is renamed here as U6 (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U.
quote:http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009623;p=1#000024
Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Yes, but did you notice they have published no nuclear aDNA. Why not? Most aDNA papers nowadays publish the full genome or large parts of it. And, visually, the skeletal remains in question look more like Aterians/MSA North Africans than 'Cro Magnon' Europeans.
Originally posted by the lioness:
^^ this is saying the oldest 35kya remains bearing U6 were found in Peștera Muierilor, Romania and it is believed to have a Near East Eurasian origin, 42-52 kya but it says that 10kya U6 from Iberia could have come from N. Africans into Iberia, these NAs bearing this Eurasian haplogroup
This possible back and forth migration is sometimes theorized as occurring through the Gibraltar straits
quote:LOL And U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Haplogroup U6 is common (with a prevalence of around 10%)[23] in Northwest Africa (with a maximum of 29% in an Algerian Mozabites[43]) and the Canary Islands (18% on average with a peak frequency of 50.1% in La Gomera). It is also found in the Iberian peninsula, where it has the highest diversity (10 out of 19 sublineages are only found in this region and not in Africa),
quote:—Hervella et al. 2016
Introduction
After the dispersal of modern humans Out of Africa, around 50–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4 or earlier based on fossil evidence5, hominins with similar morphology to present-day humans appeared in the Western Eurasian fossil record around 45–40 ky cal BP, initiating the demographic transition from ancient human occupation [Neandertals] to modern human [Homo sapiens] expansion on to the continent1"
[...]
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4. In line with this, the Peştera cu Oase individual that lived on the current territory of Romania, albeit slightly earlier than PM1 [37–42 ky cal BP] also displays haplogroup N9.
quote:If you want to ignore that U6a2 is most common in East Africa, yes!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by the lioness,:
If you want to ignore diversity and where the oldest remains were found, yes
quote:LOL So now the origin of U is uncertain? lol
Originally posted by the lioness,:
So after being on here for years you think a simple equation frequency = origin?
The origin of haplogroup U is uncertain, that is how it is
quote:—Hervella et al. 2016
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
quote:Yes lol,
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:LOL So now the origin of U is uncertain? lol
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] So after being on here for years you think a simple equation frequency = origin?
The origin of haplogroup U is uncertain, that is how it is
quote:Boing.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Yes lol,
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:LOL So now the origin of U is uncertain? lol
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] So after being on here for years you think a simple equation frequency = origin?
The origin of haplogroup U is uncertain, that is how it is
that is what you will have to deal with
quote:—Hervella et al. 2016
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
quote:^ You have a quote here from
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:—Hervella et al. 2016
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4872530/figure/f1/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/tileshop_pmc_inline.html?title=Click%20on%20image%20to%20zoom&p=PMC3&id=4872530_srep25501-f1.jpg
There is obviously something very off with your claims, boy. [/QB]
quote:boing, lol, smiley face
The presence of the basal haplogroup U6* in South East Europe (Romania) at 35 ky BP confirms a Eurasian origin of the U6 mitochondrial lineage.
quote:Yes indeed. I have been taking on these people online for years, particularly
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Hey folks, I know it's been a while but I've been so busy with research as well as with work and social life. I've dropped by here and there to lurk and catch up with what is going on in this forum, but I should warn all of you...
You may have noticed that in the net the very papers which are presented and discussed have been misrepresented big time in many social media and news outlets. Namely the discovery of Graecopithecus and the Nature study on the Roman Era Fayum mummies.
First off, let me say that I have been following the so-called "alt-right" movement for a while now since before the start of the presidential race and unfortunately just as I and some others have predicted, it is being subverted and ultimately hijacked the same way the TEA Party was. The TEA Party was simply a movement against unfair taxation and government abuse and was started as a nonpartisan movement for all American taxpayers, however it was soon infiltrated and taken over by establishment Republicans, neo-cons and other Right-wing kooks. In simliar fashion the 'Alt-Right' or 'Alternative Right' began as a movement against the regressive far-left fascists and their neo-lib masters in governments and corporations which attempt to stifle free-speech and the free-exchange of ideas among individuals. Unfortunately I and others have notice the infiltration of this movement by white-nationalists and Eurocentric chauvinists. It's gotten to a point that they now misrepresent scientific findings in favor of thier racist views.
For example, how many times have any of you noticed the discovery of Graecopithecus being misrepresented as evidence that 'Modern Humans originated in Europe'? We all know that Graecopithecus is merely a newly discovered species of hominid and we have yet find out if this species was even of the same lineage that gave rise to Homo Sapiens, yet the findings are being spun to suggest that Homo Sapiens some how arose in Europe! This fallacy is being repeated in many of the alt-media and affiliated "red pill" websites and youtube meda outlets. This fallacy is even being repeated in certain talk radio outlets I have listent to! Now more recently, the findings of the Nature study on the Roman era Fayum mummies are being spun to suggest people of European descent founded Pharaonic Egypt even though non of the mummies tested were royals and again they date from Roman rule period! Yet this fallacy is being repeated by popular youtube sites and radio shows including ironically 'Info-Wars'.
Now, I have been informed by some net pals affiliated with webgroups like Redit, 4chan, Kek, etc. that they are doing their best to inform others of these fallacies however, it is much more difficult to correct misinformation that has already spread than it is to spread misinformation in the first place. For one thing most people are too lazy to read the actual sources themselves and only read the distorted headlines. Another thing is that according to my netpals, the white nationalists are literally infiltrating the alt-right newsites as researchers and source perveyors for the journalists of those sites.
Now I'm just one person, but I hope you guys could help by putting the word out to counter these falsities.
quote:LALALA, the same article says:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:^ You have a quote here from
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:—Hervella et al. 2016
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4872530/figure/f1/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/tileshop_pmc_inline.html?title=Click%20on%20image%20to%20zoom&p=PMC3&id=4872530_srep25501-f1.jpg
There is obviously something very off with your claims, boy.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4872530/
The mitogenome of a 35,000-year-old Homo sapiens from Europe supports a Palaeolithic back-migration to Africa
M. Hervella,2016
___________________
.
.
but you don't understand it because in the abstract of the very same article it clearly states:
quote:[/QB]
The presence of the basal haplogroup U6* in South East Europe (Romania) at 35 ky BP confirms a Eurasian origin of the U6 mitochondrial lineage.
quote:Everything outside of Africa is connected to the Out of Africa migration.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LALALA, the same article says:
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
And NO specimen has been tested in Africa.
And the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! lol
quote:LOL You debunk yourself with your own "exaaaawmpuuuls".
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Everything outside of Africa is connected to the Out of Africa migration.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LALALA, the same article says:
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
And NO specimen has been tested in Africa.
And the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! lol Int has mutated there, 20Kya.
Does that mean every haplogroup is African in origin?
You think it does
but it does not
connection ≠ origin
If a human being leaves Africa and then a mutation occurs outside of Africa, that mutation is not African and that is what these haplogroups are, mutations that occur in various places
quote:—Rando JC1, Pinto F, González AM, Hernández M, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Bandelt HJ.
The group L3c of Watson et al. (1997) is renamed here as U6 (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U.
quote:I don't know if white nationalism is really a humanization campaign.
Originally posted by Doug M:
Bottom line, white supremacy benefits from good marketing and PR to propagate and maintain its lies and disinformation. And bottom line it is like a business. It makes sense for white Europeans to believe in such things because it is to their benefit. But folks have to also understand that in this day and age of mass media and instant communication, this is also being used to keep non white Europeans on the bandwagon. If you asked a large number of folks around the world if they would be willing to give up the technology and conveniences they have today to get rid of white supremacy a large number would say no. A large portion of the planet is perfectly fine and happy with going along with the paradigm of white domination = progress, even though in most cases white progress = non white destruction. What has created this mentality is all the last 500 years of educational, scientific, social and political domination and indoctrination based on misinformation, disinformation, lies and propaganda in support of white global domination. That is what all of these think tanks were designed for: promoting global long term global white domination.
But again, white nationalism is implicitly designed as a "grassroots" campaign to "humanize" European global domination and make it seem benign and beneficial. For example, Alex Jones keeps talking about the globalists this and globalists that, as if American nationalism is something separate from the global system of white domination that created America in the first place. The network of European colonies around the world are partly the foundation of and backbone of global European domination. But that is what the nationalists are there for, to spin it and make it seem as if their concept of "nationhood" is separate from the global system of European domination, aka globalism.
quote:Then why have you been showing this map with U6a focused on West Africa?
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
So the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! lol It mutated there 20Kya.
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Your favorite website:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Everything outside of Africa is connected to the Out of Africa migration.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LALALA, the same article says:
The haplogroup of PM1 falls within the U clade [Fig. 1B and Supplementary Table 3], which derived from the macro-haplogroup N possibly connected to the Out of Africa migration around 60–70 ky cal BP1,2,3,4
And NO specimen has been tested in Africa.
And the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! lol
Does that mean every haplogroup is African in origin?
You think it does
but it does not
connection ≠ origin
If a human being leaves Africa and then a mutation occurs outside of Africa, that mutation is not African and that is what these haplogroups are, mutations that occur in various places
and JK2888 is B.C. 97-2 of the Ptolemaic period
quote:—wiki
The largely intact facial bones indicate a woman with "rugged traits". This mosaic of features mirrors that seen in the Peștera cu Oase find, indicating possible Neanderthal admixture or generally robust (archaic) traits (or both).[2] The early date makes the find referable to the early Cro-Magnon group of finds.
On the basis of radiocarbon dating and also the analysis of the archaeological context, some researchers advanced the hypothesis of the association of these bones with Cro-Magnons and the Aurignacian archaeological culture. Others mention the possibility that these findings could belong to a certain regional culture from the Southern Carpathians, from the period of the Final Middle Paleolithic and Early Upper Paleolithic.
quote:—Robert A. Foleya, José Manuel Maíllo-Fernándezb, Marta Mirazón Lahra
Recently, the Libyan MSA has been divided into two phases (Garcea, 2010): an early Middle Stone Age, defined by open air sites in the Central Sahara and some sites in caves on the Mediterranean coast, such as the Haua Fteah (where it was identified as MSA with a Levallois technology, and Pre-Aurignacian with Levallois, discoid and blade technology); and a recent MSA phase that corresponds to the Aterian (Garcea, 2010: 37). This classification requires further testing.
In Libya, two Aterian and one MSA occurrences have been dated to the ‘Late Aterian Phase’: Jebel Gharbi (85e43 ka), and the Fazzan caves of Uan Tabu and Uan Afuda; the former has Aterian levels dated to 61 ` 10 ka, while at Uan Afuda an MSA level is dated to 90e 70 ka (Martini et al., 1998; di Lernia, 1999; Garcea, 2001). Else- where, a broad late Middle/Upper Pleistocene date of 150e40 ka has been proposed for the Aterian occupation of the Adrar Bous in Niger (Williams, 2008), and 70e40 ka in Egypt (Hawkins, 2001). Therefore, the current consensus view would suggest that the Aterian is a North African lithic tradition that follows a generalized local MSA tradition at the beginning of the last interglacial (MIS5d/ c), although as mentioned above, sites such as Ifri n’Ammar may be indicative of an earlier Aterian presence. The few dated stratigraphic sequences further point to important discontinuities between these two phases of MSA and MSA/Aterian occupation.
These apparent discontinuities in chronology and technology between the MSA and the Aterian in North Africa raise the question of the nature of the relationship between the two industries. The traditional interpretation has been that the Aterian represents a local facies of the North African Mousterian, sometimes described as an ‘evolved Mousterian’ (Tixier, 1959; Balout, 1965), or as an ‘Epi- Mousterian’ (Bordes, 1961). From a technological perspective, the characterization of the generalized North African MP/MSA is not simple. Techno-typological definitions of the non-Aterian MP/MSA industries in the Maghreb are unclear: Aumassip (2001) suggests a relative rarity of retouched tools and a relatively high frequency of sidescrapers, while for others abundant and diversified side- scrapers mainly produced on Levallois blanks are what characterize non-Aterian MP/MSA assemblages in the area (Wengler, 2010: 68). However, non-Aterian regional variation in the MSA is high. Aumassip (2004) identifies a number of traditions within a scheme of Mousterian variation very similar to European Mousterian facies e (a) Mousterian of Acheulean tradition, rich in small bifaces and Levallois debitage, frequent in Morocco and the Maghrebian Sahara; (b) Denticulate Mousterian in Egypt and the Maghreb, rich in denticulates and notches; (c) Typical Mousterian across North Africa; (d) Ferrassie-type Mousterian in the Maghreb, rich in scrapers and points and without bifaces; (e) Nubian Mousterian in Egypt and Sudan, characterized by the Levallois production of Nubian points, as well as (f) the Khormusan, a distinct facies of the Sudanese record (Marks, 1968; Goder-Goldeger, 2013). However, Aumassip’s classification of the non-Aterian MP/MSA of North Africa has been criticized on the grounds that it uses a European rather than African framework, and specifically excludes a number of sites from this North African ‘Mousterian’ variation e those described by Clark and others as ‘Middle Stone Age’ in Niger and Mali, and a set of very localized industries, such as those from M’zab and Dede in Algeria. To these, one could add the Pre-Aurignacian of Cyrenaica (McBurney, 1967). This highlights the point made earlier, that to understand the Aterian and its relationship to the MSA requires a broader comparative approach to technology, and that comparative framework must be Africa.
Aterian origins have usually been thought to lie in the Maghreb (Debènath et al., 1986; Pasty, 1997), although this view has been strongly criticized (Kleindienst, 1998: 8). Alternative origins have been suggested in sub-Saharan Africa, pointing to affinities with industries with foliates, such as the Lupemban and Sangoan (Caton- Thompson, 1946; Clark, 1982, 2008; Kleindienst, 1998; Wengler, 2010; Garcea, 2012). Sub-Saharan links are pertinent, since all human fossil remains found in association with the Aterian are those of H. sapiens, thus representing one of the main regional early human populations of Africa prior to the colonization of Eurasia.
quote:Your argument is rootless and toothless, West Africa has its MUTATIONS and the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! lol It mutated there 20Kya.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Then why have you been showing this map with U6a focused on West Africa?
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
So the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! lol It mutated there 20Kya.
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
quote:For instance, Mr. Welch writes, ''The ancient Egyptians, as is true of all peoples of Northern Africa, were basically Caucasoid, though there were Caucasian-Negro mixtures in Southern Egypt.'' In fact, it appears that North Africans and Lower Egyptians were predominantly Caucasian but with significant Negro mixtures, while early Upper or Southern Egyptian human remains show close resemblances to those from tropical Africa. There is also no doubt that the First Egyptian Dynasty was founded from the South as were the great Middle and New Kingdoms.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The Old Kingdom is the period in the third millennium BC when Egypt attained its first continuous peak of civilization – the first of three so-called "Kingdom" periods (followed by the Middle Kingdom and New Kingdom) which mark the high points of civilization in the lower Nile Valley. The term itself was coined by eighteenth-century historians and the distinction between the Old Kingdom and the Early Dynastic Period is not one which would have been recognized by Ancient Egyptians. Not only was the last king of the Early Dynastic Period related to the first two kings of the Old Kingdom, but the 'capital', the royal residence, remained at Ineb-Hedg, the Ancient Egyptian name for Memphis.
quote:Yep, and here you have the oh shyt, I have no common sense response. Lemmy just use anotha' troll argument.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ here comes the spam
quote:These things are facts, and have been confirmed over and over again, despite the lioness "the African American woman", has been fighting against these facts for many years. I think it's been over a decade the lioness has been fighting this.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
quote:For instance, Mr. Welch writes, ''The ancient Egyptians, as is true of all peoples of Northern Africa, were basically Caucasoid, though there were Caucasian-Negro mixtures in Southern Egypt.'' In fact, it appears that North Africans and Lower Egyptians were predominantly Caucasian but with significant Negro mixtures, while early Upper or Southern Egyptian human remains show close resemblances to those from tropical Africa. There is also no doubt that the First Egyptian Dynasty was founded from the South as were the great Middle and New Kingdoms.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
The Old Kingdom is the period in the third millennium BC when Egypt attained its first continuous peak of civilization – the first of three so-called "Kingdom" periods (followed by the Middle Kingdom and New Kingdom) which mark the high points of civilization in the lower Nile Valley. The term itself was coined by eighteenth-century historians and the distinction between the Old Kingdom and the Early Dynastic Period is not one which would have been recognized by Ancient Egyptians. Not only was the last king of the Early Dynastic Period related to the first two kings of the Old Kingdom, but the 'capital', the royal residence, remained at Ineb-Hedg, the Ancient Egyptian name for Memphis.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/10/opinion/l-civilization-owes-debt-to-an-african-egypt-363789.html
quote:One has to understand how detrimental white supremacy is. It is deep rooted in all fields of science within the western world, whether consciously or subconsciously. We can literally trace this time and time again. And it is miserable.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
[…]
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
quote:Lawd, this is how I KNOW that you have never been to the US. FACTS. 30 - 40% of these people in this picture would be or could be classified as Negroes over here. None of these"Eurafricans" are as "Caucasoid" as this Somali
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
^^ But your source and the map says:
(U6) showing an increasing frequency gradient from Eastern (1.09–1.57% in Egypt) to Western North Africa (8.89% in the Magreb)
Higher in the West as the map shpws
________________________________________________
La Gomera people
Haplogroup U6 is common (with a prevalence of around 10%)in Northwest Africa (with a maximum of 29% in an Algerian Mozabites) and the Canary Islands (18% on average with a peak frequency of 50.1% in La Gomera
These La Gomera people have the highest frequencies
Ish ????
quote:LOL At the picture spam.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:https://i.imgbox.com/yJ2njx6C.jpg
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
the FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
^^ But your source and the map says:
(U6) showing an increasing frequency gradient from Eastern (1.09–1.57% in Egypt) to Western North Africa (8.89% in the Magreb)
Higher in the West as the map shows
________________________________________________
La Gomera people
Haplogroup U6 is common (with a prevalence of around 10%)in Northwest Africa (with a maximum of 29% in an Algerian Mozabites) and the Canary Islands (18% on average with a peak frequency of 50.1% in La Gomera
These La Gomera people have the highest frequencies
Ish ????
quote:Left to right 8 people, let's use 1 to 8
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
La Gomera people
30 - 40% of these people in this picture would be or could be classified as Negroes over here.
quote:LOL at you picture spams. LOL at the "Negroes" rant. What the heck are Florida standards? I don't live in that type of world. Please tell me more about Florida.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Left to right 8 people, let's use 1 to 8
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
La Gomera people
30 - 40% of these people in this picture would be or could be classified as Negroes over here.
top to bottom a ,b, c, d ("a" is top)
Can you pick out for us 5 "Negroes" in the picture as per Florida standards?
quote:If you are a REAL American you could do this yourself, there is no more expert on blackness than White folk. This is how I KNOW you are neither American white folk nor black folk... it is part of American culture and for that matter New World culture.Here is a chart Euro's used back in the day maybe it can be helpful to you
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Left to right 8 people, let's use 1 to 8
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
La Gomera people
30 - 40% of these people in this picture would be or could be classified as Negroes over here.
top to bottom a ,b, c, d ("a" is top)
Can you pick out for us 5 "Negroes" in the picture as per Florida standards?
quote:Let us know when you have supporting evidence that U6 is more common in East Africa than in the Western Maghreb
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
quote:Callm, STFU!
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Let us know when you have supporting evidence that U6 is more common in East Africa than in the Western Maghreb
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
But first calm your emotions, take 5
quote:Andromeda is the expert on Florida, he can elaborate on Florida standards.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LOL at you picture spams. LOL at the "Negroes" rant. What the heck are Florida standards? I don't live in that type of world. Please tell me more about Florida.
quote:LOL I am asking you, it was you who mentioned this to me.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Andromeda is the expert on Florida, he can elaborate on Florida standards.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LOL at you picture spams. LOL at the "Negroes" rant. What the heck are Florida standards? I don't live in that type of world. Please tell me more about Florida.
quote:So you think that if a haplogroup was present 20kya in one place that today in 2017 that is where it is most common
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Call, STFU!
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Let us know when you have supporting evidence that U6 is more common in East Africa than in the Western Maghreb
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
But first calm your emotions, take 5
The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! It mutated in east Africa 20Kya.
Your level of desperateness is amazing, amusing and sad.
quote:The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! It mutated in east Africa 20Kya, and is so there till 2017.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:So you think that if a haplogroup was present 20kya in one place that today in 2017 that is where it is most common
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Call, STFU!
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Let us know when you have supporting evidence that U6 is more common in East Africa than in the Western Maghreb
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!!
But first calm your emotions, take 5
The FACT remains that U6a2 is most common in East Africa!!!!!!!! It mutated in east Africa 20Kya.
Your level of desperateness is amazing, amusing and sad.
Nice detective work Holmes
quote:Wake up kid, Andromeda is in the sunshine state right now! He is the expert on orange juice etc,
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:LOL I am asking you, it was you who mentioned this to me.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Andromeda is the expert on Florida, he can elaborate on Florida standards.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LOL at you picture spams. LOL at the "Negroes" rant. What the heck are Florida standards? I don't live in that type of world. Please tell me more about Florida.
Have some decency for once, and reply.
quote:Kid? lol SMH
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Wake up kid, Andromeda is in the sunshine state right now! He is the expert on orange juice etc,
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:LOL I am asking you, it was you who mentioned this to me.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Andromeda is the expert on Florida, he can elaborate on Florida standards.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LOL at you picture spams. LOL at the "Negroes" rant. What the heck are Florida standards? I don't live in that type of world. Please tell me more about Florida.
Have some decency for once, and reply.
quote:—Rando JC1, Pinto F, González AM, Hernández M, Larruga JM, Cabrera VM, Bandelt HJ.
The group L3c of Watson et al. (1997) is renamed here as U6 (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U (Richards et al. 1998) since it proves to constitute a part of haplogroup U.
[…]
In contrast, subhaplogroups L3c and L3d have somewhat younger divergence times—28,300–37,300 YBP and 17,600–23,200 YBP, respectively (table 4)—suggesting that they emerged after the evolution of L3a and L3b.
[…]
This analysis confirmed the distinctive nature of haplogroups L1–L3, which we previously had described (Chen et al. 1995), and also revealed that haplogroup L3 has three distinct sublineages: L3a, L3b, and L3c (Watson et al. 1997).
[…]
Since two of the L3d haplotypes (i.e., AF01 and AF02) identified in our study possess the HinfI np-12308 site-gain marker for haplogroup U (Torroni et al. 1996), haplotype U could have arisen in Africa and migrated into Europe. Consistent with this hypothesis, the third haplotype in this subhaplogroup (i.e., AF03) lacks this haplogroup U marker but clusters with the haplogroup U mtDNAs. Hence, AF03 could be an African precursor to haplogroup U; alternatively, the haplogroup U mtDNAs in our sample may have been introduced into Africa by a back-migration/flow of European mtDNAs. Additional L3d mtDNAs, from other African populations, will need to be analyzed to further clarify the relationship of African haplogroup L3 and L3d mtDNAs to European mtDNA haplogroups.
quote:Lmao! I am an internationl byatch... anyway do me a favor pick your African & Pick you Urasian
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Wake up kid, Andromeda is in the sunshine state right now! He is the expert on orange juice etc,
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:LOL I am asking you, it was you who mentioned this to me.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Andromeda is the expert on Florida, he can elaborate on Florida standards.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
LOL at you picture spams. LOL at the "Negroes" rant. What the heck are Florida standards? I don't live in that type of world. Please tell me more about Florida.
Have some decency for once, and reply.
quote:It takes an incredible long time for the lioness, the "Africana expert", to reply to you.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
quote:If you are a REAL American you could do this yourself, there is no more expert on blackness than White folk. This is how I KNOW you are neither American white folk nor black folk... it is part of American culture and for that matter New World culture.Here is a chart Euro's used back in the day maybe it can be helpful to you
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Left to right 8 people, let's use 1 to 8
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
La Gomera people
30 - 40% of these people in this picture would be or could be classified as Negroes over here.
top to bottom a ,b, c, d ("a" is top)
Can you pick out for us 5 "Negroes" in the picture as per Florida standards?
The majority are Morisco & Chino, they are a Espanola which is basically North African with an African mix (substratum)
quote:https://www.gomeralive.com/history/
The Original Inhabitants, the Ancient Canarians
It is assumed that the Ancient Canarians on La Gomera, had neither contact to Africa nor to the neighbouring islands.
the peaceful people lived in a stone-age culture. Mostly they were farmers and shepherds, who also sustained themselves by fishing and clothing themselves with furs.
The social structure of the Ancient Canarians, which was based on the principal of equality, is seen as highly developed.
Cloak of Oblivion
The geographic location of La Gomera, as with all of the Canary Islands, was known very early on. The mathematician and geographer Ptolemy determined the exact location of La Gomera between 85 and 160 A.D. However a cloak of (European) oblivion fell over the island of eternal spring.
quote:I know, I am still waiting on the answer for th U6 Ydna Package... and for that matter all these Eurasian Ydna's in the Abusir Mummy test are only matched up with E & J... where the hell is R1b & R1a for the great Aryan invasion.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^^^ Please remove the oversized image. Look for the cropped one at google search, images. This one is "1920 × 1080".
quote:It takes an incredible long time for the lioness, the African expert. To reply to you.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
quote:If you are a REAL American you could do this yourself, there is no more expert on blackness than White folk. This is how I KNOW you are neither American white folk nor black folk... it is part of American culture and for that matter New World culture.Here is a chart Euro's used back in the day maybe it can be helpful to you
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Left to right 8 people, let's use 1 to 8
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
La Gomera people
30 - 40% of these people in this picture would be or could be classified as Negroes over here.
top to bottom a ,b, c, d ("a" is top)
Can you pick out for us 5 "Negroes" in the picture as per Florida standards?
The majority are Morisco & Chino, they are a Espanola which is basically North African with an African mix (substratum)
Anyway,
quote:https://www.gomeralive.com/history/
The Original Inhabitants, the Ancient Canarians
It is assumed that the Ancient Canarians on La Gomera, had neither contact to Africa nor to the neighbouring islands.
the peaceful people lived in a stone-age culture. Mostly they were farmers and shepherds, who also sustained themselves by fishing and clothing themselves with furs.
The social structure of the Ancient Canarians, which was based on the principal of equality, is seen as highly developed.
Cloak of Oblivion
The geographic location of La Gomera, as with all of the Canary Islands, was known very early on. The mathematician and geographer Ptolemy determined the exact location of La Gomera between 85 and 160 A.D. However a cloak of (European) oblivion fell over the island of eternal spring.
quote:Why do the Africans in diaspora have to do all the heavy lifting when it comes to Eurocentric appropriation? And the thanks we get for it is to be put in the back of the African bus as those Negroes on the West coast? Seriously, we need to put Egypt down for a minute. Let the East coast handle their business, or are they just so dog gone happy to be included as a Caucasoid? i.e. Somalia & Ethiopia. Where are their intellectuals on the push back of Euro encroachment on indigenous African cultures? Supposedly they are the direct genetic descendants of the Egyptians. Why do the Indiocentrist not protest on the term "Eurasian" when supposedly all these haplogroups are Indian Asian ancestry? Where is the Tamil push back on what is essential? There is an Afro-Indian civilization that is being thrown under the bus for European hegemony and neither of the interested parties care. So F'm, I say.
Originally posted by Doug M:
Bottom line just like some folks on this thread, the 'information war' is the Euro run institutions spamming the typical disinformation like they always do in response to the hard core Africans in the diaspora who have been defeating them online for the last 10 years or more. The paper on so-called Egyptian genomes is nothing but disinformation which is why it is full of caveats and retractions. When they do a full extraction of known mummies in Egypt from various time periods we will know we are getting closer to the truth.
quote:But who is throwing who under the bus? African scholars aren't going around the world telling lies about everyone else's history. The only folks who have a history of doing this is the European. And that has not changed from 100 years ago. They have to prove to the world that they have always been superior because it justifies their aim of global domination and world ethno-genetic manipulation and destruction. All of this pseudo-history arose precisely as a result of European global expansion and conquest. This isn't an issue of Africans or anybody else, it is an issue of the facts of European doctrines for world domination.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
quote:Why do the Africans in diaspora have to do all the heavy lifting when it comes to Eurocentric appropriation? And the thanks we get for it is to be put in the back of the African bus as those Negroes on the West coast? Seriously, we need to put Egypt down for a minute. Let the East coast handle their business, or are they just so dog gone happy to be included as a Caucasoid? i.e. Somalia & Ethiopia. Where are their intellectuals on the push back of Euro encroachment on indigenous African cultures? Supposedly they are the direct genetic descendants of the Egyptians. Why do the Indiocentrist not protest on the term "Eurasian" when supposedly all these haplogroups are Indian Asian ancestry? Where is the Tamil push back on what is essential? There is an Afro-Indian civilization that is being thrown under the bus for European hegemony and neither of the interested parties care. So F'm, I say.
Originally posted by Doug M:
Bottom line just like some folks on this thread, the 'information war' is the Euro run institutions spamming the typical disinformation like they always do in response to the hard core Africans in the diaspora who have been defeating them online for the last 10 years or more. The paper on so-called Egyptian genomes is nothing but disinformation which is why it is full of caveats and retractions. When they do a full extraction of known mummies in Egypt from various time periods we will know we are getting closer to the truth.
This push of Alt-Right Intellectual terrorism has only made me up my game.
History of the Europe–Asia division[edit]
In ancient times, the Greeks classified Europe (derived from the mythological Phoenician princess Europa) and Asia (derived from Asia, a woman in Greek mythology) as separate "land
quote:https://archive.org/stream/historyofphilipp00barriala/historyofphilipp00barriala_djvu.txt
The aim of this book is to help him to understand, first of all, the place that the Philippines occupy in the modern history of nations, so that he may understand how far and from what beginnings the Filipino people have pro- gressed, toward what things the outside world itself has moved during this time, and what place and opportunities the Filipinos, as a people, may seek for in the future.
The Meaning of History.
History, as it is written and understood, comprises many centuries of human life and achievement, and we must begin our study by discussing a little what history means. Men may live for thousands of years without having a life that may be called historical; for history is formed only where there are credible written records of events. Until we have these records, we have no ground for historical study, but leave the field to another study, which we call Archeology, or Prehistoric Culture.
Historical Races. Thus there are great races which have no history, for they have left no records. Either the people could not write, or their writings have been destroyed, or they told nothing about the life of the people. The history of these races began only with the coming of a historical, or more advanced race among them. Thus, the history of the black, or negro, race begins only with the exploration of Africa by the white race, and the history of the American Indians, except perhaps of those of Peru and Mexico, begins only with the white man's conquest of America. The white, or European, race is, above all others, the great historical race; but the yellow race, represented by the Chinese, has also a historical life and development, beginning many centuries before the birth of Christ.
For thousands of years the history of the white race was confined to countries bordering or adjacent to the Mediterranean Sea. There was little contact with other races of men and almost no knowledge of countries beyond the Mediterranean shores. The great continents of America and Australia and the beautiful island world of the Pacific and Indian oceans were scarcely dreamed of. This was the status of the white race in Europe a little more than five hundred years ago. How different is the posi tion of this race today! It has now explored nearly the entire globe. The white people have crossed every continent and every sea. On every continent they, have established colonies and over many countries their power.
During these last five centuries, besides this spread of geographical discovery, the mingling of all the races, and the founding of great colonies, have come also the development of scientific knowledge, great discoveries and inventions, the utilization of steam and electricity, which give to man such tremendous powor over the material world.
Very important changes also have marked the religious and political life of the race. Within these years came the Protestant revolt from the Roman Catholic Church, destroying in some degree the unity of Christendom; and the great revolutions of Europe and America, establish ing democratic and representative governments.
This expansion and widening of the life of the European race, beginning about five hundred years ago, brought it into contact with the Filipino people, and the historical life of the Philippines dates from this meeting of the two races. Thus the history of the Philippines has become a part of the history of nations. During these centuries the people of these islands, subjects of a European nation, have progressed in social life and government, in education and industries, in numbers, and in wealth. They have often been stirred by wars and revolutions, by centuries of piratical invasion, and fear of conquest by foreign nations. But these dangers have now passed away.
quote:Linear B is the oldest form of Greek and the oldest example of it was found in Greece
Originally posted by Doug M:
The funny part is that no writing originated in Europe and there is no ancient writing in North Western Europe either.
quote:UNBOXED: The World Beyond the West & the Problem of Eurocentrism
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Linear B is the oldest form of Greek and the oldest example of it was found in Greece
Originally posted by Doug M:
The funny part is that no writing originated in Europe and there is no ancient writing in North Western Europe either.
Oldest evidence of writing found in Europe
Located in the southwestern corner of Greece, the town where this discovery took place is Iklaina. This town dates back to the Mycenaean period of 1500 BC to 100 BC, and around 1400 BC
_______________________________
Runes
The runes were in use among the Germanic peoples from the 1st or 2nd century AD. This period corresponds to the late Common Germanic stage linguistically, with a continuum of dialects not yet clearly separated into the three branches of later centuries: North Germanic, West Germanic, and East Germanic.The runes developed centuries after the Old Italic alphabets from which they are probably historically derived.
quote:http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp264-ss13/2013/04/25/the-mysterious-linear-a/
Originally posted by Doug M:
Linear A and B were tied by various authors to "Near Eastern" cultures like the Phoenicians and Turkish cultures attesting to the fact of migrations from outside Europe and influence from outside Europe. But if it is now considered a home grown European written language then fine. But that is not where the writing of the classical Greeks originates. And the runes don't date much past 200 BC.
And most writing today did not originate from Europe. So in the context of the racist book written 100 years ago, Europeans were just as savage and barbarian as anybody as they didn't have any home grown writing to speak of for most of their history and the writing that they did have came late and is a result of influence from elsewhere, most notably the "classical" languages.
quote:Again, the point was that Europeans are not "special" in terms of writing as most writing systems used in Greece to this day are derived from non European Phoenicians who in turn got it from Egypt. The two writing forms that may have developed in Europe are relatively recent. Therefore, according to the racist work I referenced Europeans have no history because they had no writing for most of their history......
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:UNBOXED: The World Beyond the West & the Problem of Eurocentrism
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Linear B is the oldest form of Greek and the oldest example of it was found in Greece
Originally posted by Doug M:
The funny part is that no writing originated in Europe and there is no ancient writing in North Western Europe either.
Oldest evidence of writing found in Europe
Located in the southwestern corner of Greece, the town where this discovery took place is Iklaina. This town dates back to the Mycenaean period of 1500 BC to 100 BC, and around 1400 BC
_______________________________
Runes
The runes were in use among the Germanic peoples from the 1st or 2nd century AD. This period corresponds to the late Common Germanic stage linguistically, with a continuum of dialects not yet clearly separated into the three branches of later centuries: North Germanic, West Germanic, and East Germanic.The runes developed centuries after the Old Italic alphabets from which they are probably historically derived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePTwDkeydhY
quote:What writing system was in use in Europe 5,000 years ago?
Historical Races. Thus there are great races which have no history, for they have left no records. Either the people could not write, or their writings have been destroyed, or they told nothing about the life of the people. The history of these races began only with the coming of a historical, or more advanced race among them. Thus, the history of the black, or negro, race begins only with the exploration of Africa by the white race, and the history of the American Indians, except perhaps of those of Peru and Mexico, begins only with the white man's conquest of America. The white, or European, race is, above all others, the great historical race; but the yellow race, represented by the Chinese, has also a historical life and development, beginning many centuries before the birth of Christ
quote:http://www.ancient.eu/Greek_Alphabet/
The Greek alphabet is the writing system developed in Greece which first appears in the archaeological record during the 8th century BCE. This was not the first writing system that was used to write Greek: several centuries before the Greek alphabet was invented, the Linear B script was the writing system used to write Greek during Mycenaean times. The Linear B script was lost around c.1100 BCE and with it, all knowledge of writing vanished from Greece until the time when the Greek alphabet was developed.
The Greek alphabet was born when the Greeks adapted the Phoenician writing system to represent their own language by developing a fully phonetic writing system composed of individual signs arranged in a linear fashion that could represent both consonants and vowels. The earliest Greek alphabet inscriptions are graffiti incised on pots and potsherds. The graffiti found in Lefkandi and Eretria, the ‘Dipylon oinochoe’ found in Athens, and the inscriptions in the ‘Nestor’s cup’ form Pithekoussai are all dated to the second half of the 8th century BCE, and they are the oldest known Greek alphabetic inscriptions ever recorded.
quote:^^ this guy hates white people so he presents theories as facts
Originally posted by Doug M:
Again, the point was that Europeans are not "special" in terms of writing as most writing systems used in Greece to this day are derived from non European Phoenicians
quote:Two wrongs don't make a right. Because Europeans in some cases have unfairly slanted history to enhance their narrative the solution is not to slant things in the opposite direction, it is to be
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Another theory is that Linear A is a descendant of Phoenician; however, while a few terms may be Semitic in origin, Linear A presents many written vowels – a direct contrast to Semitic script. Indo-Iranian is another candidate, however, the work done by Hubert La Marle to prove this connection ignored established evidence and used different script systems at will. The most widely accepted theory to date is that Linear A is somehow related to the Tyrrhenian family of languages which is pre-Indo-European and comprises of Etruscan, Rhaetic and Lemnian. However, even the most robust arguments for any of these theories is lacking and the mystery of Linear A remains. [/QB]
quote:There is NO such thing as "objectivity" Everything is political. Science is political. Many of these DNA studies are Pysops. Sorry but that is my conclusion after reading them and the language in which it is couched. People/Scientists cannot hide from their own conscious or subconscious agendas.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:^^ this guy hates white people so he presents theories as facts
Originally posted by Doug M:
Again, the point was that Europeans are not "special" in terms of writing as most writing systems used in Greece to this day are derived from non European Phoenicians
plus, just mentioning European writing does not means it is presented as "special". That is a straw man
quote:Two wrongs don't make a right. Because Europeans in some cases have unfairly slanted history to enhance their narrative the solution is not to slant things in the opposite direction, it is to be
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Another theory is that Linear A is a descendant of Phoenician; however, while a few terms may be Semitic in origin, Linear A presents many written vowels – a direct contrast to Semitic script. Indo-Iranian is another candidate, however, the work done by Hubert La Marle to prove this connection ignored established evidence and used different script systems at will. The most widely accepted theory to date is that Linear A is somehow related to the Tyrrhenian family of languages which is pre-Indo-European and comprises of Etruscan, Rhaetic and Lemnian. However, even the most robust arguments for any of these theories is lacking and the mystery of Linear A remains.
objective as possible [/QB]
quote:Thats what people say when they want you take sides
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
There is NO such thing as "objectivity" Everything is political. Science is political
quote:Same old game.
THE CAUSES OF RACE SUPERIORITY.
Annual address by Dr. Edward A. Ross, Professor of Sociology in the University of Nebraska.
The superiorities that, at a given time, one people may display over other peoples, are not necessarily racial. Physical inferiorities that disappear as the peoples are equalized in diet and dwelling; mental inferiorities that disappear when the peoples are levelled up in respect to culture and means of education, are due not to race but to condition, not to blood but to surroundings. In accounting for disparities among peoples there are, in fact, two opposite errors into which we may fall. There is the equality fallacy inherited from the earlier thought of the last century, which belittles race differences and has a robust faith in the power of intercourse and school instruction to lift up a backward folk to the level of the best. Then there is the counter fallacy, grown up since Darwin, which exaggerates the race factor and regards the actual differences of peoples as hereditary and fixed.
Just now the latter error is, perhaps, the more besetting. At a time when race is the watchword of the vulgar and when sciolists are pinning their faith to breed, we of all men ought to beware of it. We Americans w T ho have so often seen the children of underfed, stunted, scrub immigrants match the native American in brain and brawn, in wit and grit, ought to realize how much the superior effectiveness of the latter is due to social conditions. Keleti, from his investigations in Hungary, has come to the conclusion that in most of the communes there the people have less to eat than is necessary to live and work, the result being alcoholism, weakness, disease and early death. Atwater, on the other hand, has found that the average wageworker in New England consumes more food than health requires.
What a host of consequences issue from this one primary contrast !
A generation ago, in the first enthusiasm over the marvels of heredity, we were taught that one race is monotheistic, another has an affinity for polytheism. One race is temperamentally aristocratic, while another is by instinct democratic. One race is innovating and radical, another is by nature conservative. But it is impossible to characterize races in respect to such large complex traits. A keener analysis connects these great historical contrasts with a number of slight specific differences in body or temperament. For example, four diverse traits of the greatest social importance, namely, progressiveness, the spirit of adventure, migrancy and the disposition to flock to cities, can be traced to a courageous confidence in the unknown coupled with the high plrysical tone that calls for action. Similarly, if we may believe Signor Ferrero, of two equally gifted races the one that is the less sensual will be inferior in aesthetic output, less apt to cross with lower types, more loyal to the idea of duty, better adapted to monotonous factory labor, and more inclined to the Protestant form of religion. It is only by establishing fixed, specific differences of this kind that we can hope to explain those grand race contrasts that enchant the historian.
The first cause of race superiority to which I invite your attention is a physiological trait, namely, climatic adaptability . Just now it is a grave question whether the flourishing and teeming peoples of the North Temperate zone can provide outlets for their surplus population in the rich but undeveloped lands of the tropics. Their superiority, economic and military, over the peoples under the vertical sun is beyond cavil. But can they assert and profit by this superiority save by imposing on the natives of the tropics the odious and demoralizing servile relation? Can the white man work and multiply in the tropics, or will his role be limited to commercial and industrial exploitation at a safe distance by means of a changing, male contingent of soldiers, officials, business agents, planters and overseers?
quote:.
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
There is NO such thing as "objectivity" Everything is political. Science is political
quote:Yes Andromeda, you were right
Originally posted by Clyde Winters
the Bell Beaker and Yamnaya people were Africans, not Indo-Europeans
--A Genetic Chronology of African Y-Chromosomes R-V88 and R-M269 in Africa and Eurasia
*Clyde Winters
Department of Archaeogenetics, Uthman dan Fodio Institute
quote:The majorities that run societies or tribes frequently think they are the best
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Science is being used as the strong arm of European Hegemony.
quote:Who's the majority in Europe
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Europeans are not the majority. However, they have created a false majority with the Eurasian classification. It is B.S.
quote:Is 4 even a reality? Is 180 degrees? That is the point. Schrodinger's cat.
Originally posted by Oshun:
For those of us a bit slower what type of axioms would need to be adapted are required to make 2+2=4 and make the interior angles of a triangle always add up to 180°? How could it be written under a different set of axioms?? Just want to see an illustration of this post.
quote:You are right?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Who's the majority in Europe
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Europeans are not the majority. However, they have created a false majority with the Eurasian classification. It is B.S.
and in America?
quote:"However, even the most robust arguments for any of these theories is lacking and the mystery of Linear A remains."
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:^^ this guy hates white people so he presents theories as facts
Originally posted by Doug M:
Again, the point was that Europeans are not "special" in terms of writing as most writing systems used in Greece to this day are derived from non European Phoenicians
plus, just mentioning European writing does not means it is presented as "special". That is a straw man
quote:Two wrongs don't make a right. Because Europeans in some cases have unfairly slanted history to enhance their narrative the solution is not to slant things in the opposite direction, it is to be
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Another theory is that Linear A is a descendant of Phoenician; however, while a few terms may be Semitic in origin, Linear A presents many written vowels – a direct contrast to Semitic script. Indo-Iranian is another candidate, however, the work done by Hubert La Marle to prove this connection ignored established evidence and used different script systems at will. The most widely accepted theory to date is that Linear A is somehow related to the Tyrrhenian family of languages which is pre-Indo-European and comprises of Etruscan, Rhaetic and Lemnian. However, even the most robust arguments for any of these theories is lacking and the mystery of Linear A remains.
objective as possible [/QB]
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
quote:There is a discrepancy. South Africa comes to mind?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Who's the majority in Europe
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Europeans are not the majority. However, they have created a false majority with the Eurasian classification. It is B.S.
and in America?
quote:2+2=4
Originally posted by Oshun:
For those of us a bit slower what type of axioms would need to be adapted are required to make 2+2=4 and make the interior angles of a triangle always add up to 180°? How could it be written under a different set of axioms?? Just want to see an illustration of this post.
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Yes I see your logic, South Africa had a European minority and an African majority therefore America and Europe also do. You got me
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:There is a discrepancy. South Africa comes to mind?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Who's the majority in Europe
Originally posted by Andromeda2025:
Europeans are not the majority. However, they have created a false majority with the Eurasian classification. It is B.S.
and in America?
quote:That could be, but for now we roll with the punches. 2 punches with the left in the face and 2 punches with the right in the face makes how many punches in the face?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
2+2=4, that's what we've been brainwashed to think,
quote:Yeah I see your logic as well, that's what we've been brainwashed to think. You got me.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Yes I see your logic, South Africa had a European minority and an African majority therefore America and Europe also do. You got me
quote:Correct. There is a false equivalency between Afrocentrism and Eurocentrism. Eurocentrism is usually a "white lie", while Afrocentrism is based on reliable data and confirmation of the several paradigms of ancient Afrocentric history and anthropology.
Originally posted by Thereal:
With do people make the comparison the Afrocentrism is the same as Eurocentrism? Secondly if similar issues with regard to info manipulation occurs amongst Afrocentrist why bring it up if people are already skeptical and their voices in comparison to white are small I fell like these are a false equivalency, if science has proved humanities in Africa than that what all history books should start before any mentioning of advanced cultures.
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Getting back to my point. The problem is that you have Eurocentric agents working in news media outlets falsely representing scientific data in their twisted views. This is the infowars I am referring to. Yeah, there are Afrocentrics who do the same thing but they are fewer and farther in between and nobody takes them seriously and of course they don't work in any of the majore alternative media outlets that the Eurocentrics work in which give them more clout. This is why it is important that those of us in the know should actually contact these outlets to correct them!
quote:^So you are alright with this, it's some of news media outlets' spin on it that is bad
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694
Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann1,
Abstract
...Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times.
quote:The purpose for these outlets was to reach out to the Doxie level type.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Getting back to my point. The problem is that you have Eurocentric agents working in news media outlets falsely representing scientific data in their twisted views. This is the infowars I am referring to. Yeah, there are Afrocentrics who do the same thing but they are fewer and farther in between and nobody takes them seriously and of course they don't work in any of the majore alternative media outlets that the Eurocentrics work in which give them more clout. This is why it is important that those of us in the know should actually contact these outlets to correct them!
quote:This of course is a funny claim, once you figure out that Near Eastern had (SSA) African admix or bottleneck occurrence going on for thousands of years. Pre-existing this Verena J. Schuenemann et al claim.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Getting back to my point. The problem is that you have Eurocentric agents working in news media outlets falsely representing scientific data in their twisted views. This is the infowars I am referring to. Yeah, there are Afrocentrics who do the same thing but they are fewer and farther in between and nobody takes them seriously and of course they don't work in any of the majore alternative media outlets that the Eurocentrics work in which give them more clout. This is why it is important that those of us in the know should actually contact these outlets to correct them!
quote:^So you are alright with this, it's some of news media outlets' spin on it that is bad
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694
Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods
Verena J. Schuenemann1,
Abstract
...Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners than present-day Egyptians, who received additional sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times.
Ok, Alex Jones, what other media outlets?
quote:—Sarah A. Tishkoff,
African and Middle Eastern populations shared the greatest number of alleles absent from all other populations (fig. S6B).
quote:I didn't see this sneaky post.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Which news outlets do you have in mind? I would consider a site like Infowars to be a lost cause due to their obvious agenda. If I had to correct any media outlets, I would probably target science reporting sites like LiveScience since they have more credibility and impartiality than political sites.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Getting back to my point. The problem is that you have Eurocentric agents working in news media outlets falsely representing scientific data in their twisted views. This is the infowars I am referring to. Yeah, there are Afrocentrics who do the same thing but they are fewer and farther in between and nobody takes them seriously and of course they don't work in any of the majore alternative media outlets that the Eurocentrics work in which give them more clout. This is why it is important that those of us in the know should actually contact these outlets to correct them!
quote:Again, the Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:I didn't see this sneaky post.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
Anyway, Romans were cosmopolitan. And their scripture was not invented by them.
It came from some place else, 900B.C.. And it took almost 2000 years later to get to the first aristocrats and monks spreading in Europe. And it took almost another 1000 years to get to the first mainstream in society, than to become a regular practice for most.
In other words, the Western Germanic calligraphy is the youngest in Europe. And from there it took hundreds of years to spread. However, it's the oldest of the youngest derivatives from Germanic.
Nice try.
quote:And they were introduced to writing and other features of civilization by non-Europeans. Agriculture, writing, chemistry, architecture, medicine and more were all introduced to Europe by non-Europeans.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Again, the Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:I didn't see this sneaky post.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
Anyway, Romans were cosmopolitan. And their scripture was not invented by them.
It came from some place else, 900B.C.. And it took almost 2000 years later to get to the first aristocrats and monks spreading in Europe. And it took almost another 1000 years to get to the first mainstream in society, than to become a regular practice for most.
In other words, the Western Germanic calligraphy is the youngest in Europe. And from there it took hundreds of years to spread. However, it's the oldest of the youngest derivatives from Germanic.
Nice try.
quote:Again, the script did not come from them, it was introduced to them.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Again, the Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:I didn't see this sneaky post.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
Anyway, Romans were cosmopolitan. And their scripture was not invented by them.
It came from some place else, 900B.C.. And it took almost 2000 years later to get to the first aristocrats and monks spreading in Europe. And it took almost another 1000 years to get to the first mainstream in society, than to become a regular practice for most.
In other words, the Western Germanic calligraphy is the youngest in Europe. And from there it took hundreds of years to spread. However, it's the oldest of the youngest derivatives from Germanic.
Nice try.
quote:Cosigned.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
If Africa had real leaders and we had the resources to comprehensively discover and reconstruct our history... I could not care less what lies Europeans taught their children.
I would love future African children to completely and contemptiously disregard what all non-Africans have to say on matters pertaining to our continent.
Karl Von Clausewitz said that war is politics by other means, and I maintain that history is war by other means. This is a death-struggle. Why would anyone expect their enemies to reveal the truth and embolden them?
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:stop wasting our time with unsupported claims
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Again, the script did not come from them, it was introduced to them.
quote:LOL @ unsupported claims narrative.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:stop wasting our time with unsupported claims
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Again, the script did not come from them, it was introduced to them.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:white people with tans
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Or people with admixture?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:white people with tans
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
quote:
Originally posted by Cass/:
And there's not a European genetic cluster; Northern Europeans & Southern Europeans can also easily be distinguished into two separate groups based on autosomal DNA:
quote:http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.0020143
Using a genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) panel, we observed population structure in a diverse group of Europeans and European Americans. Under a variety of conditions and tests, there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between “northern” and “southern” European population groups: most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have >85% membership in the “southern” population; and most northern, western, eastern, and central Europeans have >90% in the “northern” population group.
quote:Yes they were. What do you imagine them to be?
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Those whites that can tan are mixed race, but the Greeks and Romans were melanated people.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:white people with tans
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:They were melanated people, much like the Ethiopians etc.
Originally posted by sudaniya:
quote:Yes they were. What do you imagine them to be?
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
quote:Exactly, or just an Ethiopian, Somalian or Dravidian group of people.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Or people with admixture?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:white people with tans
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
https://twitter.com/arianagrande/status/454424967937916929
quote:—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
quote:
Originally posted by Cass/:
And there's not a European genetic cluster; Northern Europeans & Southern Europeans can also easily be distinguished into two separate groups based on autosomal DNA:
quote:http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.0020143
Using a genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) panel, we observed population structure in a diverse group of Europeans and European Americans. Under a variety of conditions and tests, there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between “northern” and “southern” European population groups: most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have >85% membership in the “southern” population; and most northern, western, eastern, and central Europeans have >90% in the “northern” population group.
quote:Exactly, or just an Ethiopian, Somalian or Dravidian group of people.
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Or people with admixture?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:white people with tans
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:Yes, but there were NOT whites.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:The Romans and Greeks were European
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
It's simple. Romans introduced written script all over Europe. This is why they use Roman icons in Germanic and Latin based languages. The first people who knew how to read and write were monks and aristocrats. The first books were bibles translated from Latin and later from Greek.
https://twitter.com/arianagrande/status/454424967937916929
quote:—S Triki-Fendri, A Rebai 2015
Firstly, E-M81 is the most common haplogroup in North Africa showing its highest concentrations in Northwestern Africa (76 % in Saharawis in Morocco (Arredi et al., 2004)) with cline frequencies decreasing eastward: Algeria (45 %), Libya (34 %) and Egypt (10 %) (Robino et al., 2008; Triki-Fendri et al., submitted; Arredi et al., 2004).
Besides, Ottoni et al., (2011) have reported that E-M81 appear to constitute a common paternal genetic matrix in the Tuareg populations where it was encountered at high frequency (89 %).
Hence, the distribution of this haplogroup in Africa closely matches the present area of Berber-speaking population’s allocation on the continent, suggesting a close haplogroup-ethnic group parallelism (Bosch et al., 2001; Cruciani et al., 2002; 2004; Arredi et al., 2004; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al., 2011; Bekada et al., 2013). However, knowing that the Berber dialects have been replaced by Arabic in North African populations, carriers of E-M81 haplogroup are currently Arab-speaking peoples whose ancestors were Berber-speaking.
Outside of Africa, E-M81 is almost absent in the Middle East and in Europe (with the exception of Iberia and Sicily). The presence of E-M81 in the Iberian Peninsula (12 % in southern Portugal) (Cruciani et al., 2004) has been attributed to trans-Mediterranean contacts linked to the Islamic influence, since it is typically Berber (Bosch et al., 2001; Semino et al., 2004; Beleza et al., 2006; Alvarez et al., 2009; Cruciani et al., 2007; Trombetta et al., 2011).
Synthetic review on the genetic relatedness between North Africa and Arabia deduced from paternal lineage distributions
quote:
Originally posted by Cass/:
And there's not a European genetic cluster; Northern Europeans & Southern Europeans can also easily be distinguished into two separate groups based on autosomal DNA:
quote:http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.0020143
Using a genome-wide single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) panel, we observed population structure in a diverse group of Europeans and European Americans. Under a variety of conditions and tests, there is a consistent and reproducible distinction between “northern” and “southern” European population groups: most individual participants with southern European ancestry (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek) have >85% membership in the “southern” population; and most northern, western, eastern, and central Europeans have >90% in the “northern” population group.
quote:that's ridiculous
Originally posted by Autshumato:
whites that can tan are mixed race
quote:↑ this could be a Somalian, Ethiopian or Indian.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:that's ridiculous
Originally posted by Autshumato:
whites that can tan are mixed race
Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
quote:No it couldn't be a Somalian, Ethiopian or Indian because he was European
Originally posted by Autshumato:
quote:↑ this could be a Somalian, Ethiopian or Indian.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:that's ridiculous
Originally posted by Autshumato:
whites that can tan are mixed race
Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
quote:—Thomas C. Leonard
These important differences have lead some, such as James Watson (1996), codiscoverer of the structure of DNA, to endorse eugenics, when free of bias and of state compulsion.
quote:Meroë, Sudan was places with high priests, the head was placed there because he thought they could find a cure of his illness and pass it on trough the head, so he could heal. He himself actually never was there. This was the case with many of these Romans.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:that's ridiculous
Originally posted by Autshumato:
whites that can tan are mixed race
Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
quote:http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/exhibitions/the_meroë_head_of_augustus.aspx
Find out how this iconic bronze head of Rome’s first emperor Augustus became a symbol of African resistance in the ancient royal city of Meroë, in northern Sudan.
quote:Hilarious.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Stop reverse culture vulturing
quote:As usual you miss the point entirely. It's the head of the first Roman Emperor Augustus. The fact that it was found in Sudan is irrelevant, it is just basic information that should be given when you post a sculpture, title, date, location, etc
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Meroë, Sudan was places with high priests, the head was placed there because he thought they could find a cure of his illness and pass it on trough the head, so he could heal. He himself actually never was there. This was the case with many of these Romans.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]quote:that's ridiculous
Originally posted by Autshumato:
whites that can tan are mixed race
Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
Nice try.
quote:"As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:As usual you miss the point entirely. It's the head of the first Roman Emperor Augustus. The fact that it was found in Sudan is irrelevant, it is just basic information that should be given when you post a sculpture, title, date, location, etc
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Meroë, Sudan was places with high priests, the head was placed there because he thought they could find a cure of his illness and pass it on trough the head, so he could heal. He himself actually never was there. This was the case with many of these Romans.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb]quote:that's ridiculous
Originally posted by Autshumato:
whites that can tan are mixed race
Bronze head from a statue of Rome’s first emperor Augustus. Found in Meroë, Sudan, made in 27–25 BC.
Nice try.
"Nice try" at showing what?
Your comment "Nice try" makes no sense.
It's a Roman sculpture of Augustus who was born in Rome, that is the point, he was a European and looks like one
quote:No I didn't post Europeans when it came to Africans. I posted a Roman when it was implied that the Romans were not Europeans or that they were some kind of mulattoes, that is BS except for a small few with partial North African ancestry
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
"As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:No I didn't post Europeans when it came to Africans. I posted a Roman when it was implied that the Romans were not Europeans or that they were some kind of mulattoes, that is BS except for a small few with partial North African ancestry
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
"As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
quote:So tell, who is that "guy"?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:same sculpture as above:
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
_______ Juba II Numidian African
____________ Typical Euro-Roman
The Numidian differs from the European in all the stereotypical hair and facial
features. The hair is thicker and "wilder."
His nose and lips look partially African but your analysis of the hair is ridiulous and assumes all Europeans have neat straight hair.
Arguing that a small minority of Africans might hair hair like Juba II here is one thing but to suggest that his hair here looks more African than European is pure silliness.
Further, when people like the person below get very short hair cuts their hair appears a lot straighter because they have large curls and large curls need a certain amount of length to begin to form into recognizable curls.
If you looks at depictions of the Numidian kings on coins and so on (-ones in good condition not all worn down) you can easily tell they are not pure Africans, they have quite a bit of Greco-Roman admixture
^^^this guy's hair is closer to Beja than is that bronze of Juba II
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:No I didn't post Europeans when it came to Africans. I posted a Roman when it was implied that the Romans were not Europeans or that they were some kind of mulattoes, that is BS except for a small few with partial North African ancestry
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
"As usual you miss the point entirely."? lol Look who is talking.
So that's the reason why you've posted these images from "Europeans" when it came to Africans? Yeah, that's logic.
Nice try.
quote:http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=009335;p=29#001423
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:I have already schooled your ass on this so you can stop "loling" like a schoolgirl
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Yawn^ Now the people who have inhabited the Naqada region are all of a sudden unknown. lol sure!
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/afe.html
Naqada III art work. lol
1) Victorian ornamental comb
2)
Hair Comb Decorated with Rows of Wild Animals
Period: Predynastic, Late Naqada III
Date: ca. 3200–3100 B.C.
Notice the size of the remaining portions of each of the prongs
_______________________________
Queen Tiye
_____________Maiherpri
quote:http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/post/15401/thread
flydesign52 Avatar
Oct 4, 2016 19:28:25 GMT 2 flydesign52 said:
Egyptology: Hanging in the Hair
Egyptology: Hanging in the Hair
by Anu M'bantu and Fari Supia
West Africa Magazine
8th July 2001
F0R YEARS, EGYPTOLOGY has been fighting a losing battle to hold onto an
ancient Egypt that is Caucasian or, at worst, sun-tanned Caucasian. At
the 1974 UNESCO conference Egyptology was dealt a fatal blow. Two
African scholars wiped the floor with 18 world-renowned Egyptologists.
They proved in 11 different categories of evidence that the ancient
Egyptians were Africans (Black).
Following that beating, Egyptology has been on its knees praying to be
saved by science. Their last glimmer of hope has been the hair on
Egyptian mummies. The mummies on display in the world's museums exhibit
Caucasoid-looking hair, some of it brown and blonde. These mummies
include Pharaoh Seqenenre Tao of the 17th dynasty and the 19th dynasty's
Rameses II. As one scholar put it: "The most common hair colour, then as
now, was a very dark brown, almost black colour although natural auburn
and even rather surprisingly blonde hair are also to be found."
Many Black scholars try skillfully to avoid the hair problem. This is a
mistake!
In 1914, a white doctor in Detroit initiated divorce proceeding against
his wife whom he suspected of being a "closet Negro". At the trial, the
Columbia University anthropologist, Professor Franz Boas (1858-1942),
was called upon as a race expert. Boas declared: "If this woman has any
of the characteristics of the Negro race it would be easy to find them .
. . one characteristic that is regarded as reliable is the hair. You can
tell by microscopic examination of a cross-section of hair to what race
that person belongs." With this revelation, trichology (the scientific
analysis of hair) reached the American public. But what are these
differences?
The cross-section of a hair shaft is measured with an instrument called
a trichometer. From this you can get measurements for the minimum and
maximum diameter of a hair The minimum measurement is then divided by
the maximum and then multiplied by a hundred. This produces an index. A
survey of the scientific literature produces the following breakdown:
San, Southern African 55.O0
Zulu, Southern African 55.O0
Sub-Saharan Africa 60.O0
Tasmanian (Black) 64.70
Australian (Black) 68.00
Western European 71.20
Asian Indian 73.00
Navajo American 77.00
Chinese 82.60
In the early 1970s, the Czech anthropologist Eugen Strouhal examined
pre-dynastic Egyptian skulls at Cambridge University. He sent some
samples of the hair to the Institute of Anthropology at Charles
University, Prague, to be analyzed. The hair samples were described as
varying in texture from "wavy" to "curly" and in colour from "light
brown" to "black". Strouhal summarized the results of the analysis: "The
outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices
ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid
inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)." The term
"Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests
this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently
the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals
produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey
analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4
was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the
African-haired populations. A team of Italian anthropologists published
their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They
measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic,
12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of
66.50 The overall average of all four sets of ancient Egyptian hair
samples was 60.02. Sounds familiar . ., just check the table!
Since microscopic analysis shows ancient Egyptian hair to be completely
African, why does the hair look Caucasoid? Research has given us the
answers. Hair is made of keratin protein. Keratin is composed of amino
acid chains called polypeptides. In a hair, two such chains are called
cross-chain polypeptides. These are held together by disulphide bonds.
The bulk of the hair, the source of its strength and curl, is called the
cortex. The hair shafts are made of a protective outer layer called the
cuticle.
We are informed by Afro Hair - A Salon Book, that chemicals for
bleaching, penning and straightening hair must reach the cortex to be
effective. For hair to be permed or straightened the disulphide bonds in
the cortex must be broken. The anthropologist Daniel Hardy writing in
the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, tells us that keratin is
stable owing to disulphide bonds. However, when hair is exposed to harsh
conditions it can lead to oxidation of protein molecules in the cortex,
which leads to the alteration of hair texture, such as straightening.
Two British anthropologists, Brothwell and Spearman, have found evidence
of cortex keratin oxidation in ancient Egyptian hair. They held that the
mummification process was responsible, because of the strong alkaline
substance used. This resulted in the yellowing and browning of hair as
well as the straightening effect. This means that visual appearance of
the hair on mummies cannot disguise their racial affinities.
The presence of blonde and brown hair on ancient Egyptian mummies has
nothing to do with their racial identity and everything to do with
mummification and the passage of time. As the studies have shown, when
you put the evidence under a microscope the truth comes out. At last,
Egyptology's prayers have been answered. It has been put out of its
misery. Its tombstone reads Egyptology, R.I.P June 2001.
Royal Ontario Museum, Canada
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/africanclassicalhistory/message/1488
quote:http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004382;p=3#000110
Originally posted by Djehuti:
"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."
The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50...
[…]
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
quote:Sure. It is a full fledged propaganda war. What irritates me
Originally posted by Djehuti:
Getting back to my point. The problem is that you have Eurocentric agents working in news media outlets falsely representing scientific data in their twisted views. This is the infowars I am referring to. Yeah, there are Afrocentrics who do the same thing but they are fewer and farther in between and nobody takes them seriously and of course they don't work in any of the majore alternative media outlets that the Eurocentrics work in which give them more clout. This is why it is important that those of us in the know should actually contact these outlets to correct them!
quote:That Ariana Grande has African admixture is no shock. I've heard a news story last year that she constantly relaxes and straight-irons her hair because her natural hair texture is as she herself calls it "ratchet" [sic] which I presume is her derrogatory term for kinky hair (?).
Originally posted by Autshumato:
https://twitter.com/arianagrande/status/454424967937916929
quote:First time I saw her on a tv-show over here, I honestly thought she was Afro-Cuban or something like that.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
That Ariana Grande has African admixture is no shock. I've heard a news story last year that she constantly relaxes and straight-irons her hair because her natural hair texture is as she herself calls it "ratchet" [sic] which I presume is her derrogatory term for kinky hair (?).
quote:This also touches foreign newspapers. But most vividly the alt-right and affiliates run with it, of course. Regular folks don't even care.
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ By media outlets, I don't just mean Alex Jones' 'Info Wars' although there are a lot of people who follow Alex Jones. That's the problem. It is many 'alt-right' media outlets and even some outlets that are allegedly don't have any politial agendas. They are being flooded with Eurocentric spin on science new stories.
quote:Challenge for Capra
Originally posted by capra:
Eh, well, bias, political pressure, even conspiracies do exist.
But to suppress a sample because you don't like the unexpected results - that means everyone in the lab colluding in scientific misconduct, and throwing out hard-earned and expensive results that could have got high-profile publications... for what?
yeah, I don't buy it. If they found frigging aliens or something - okay, yeah. But who the fuck cares if Natufians have Sub-Saharan African affinity or whatever? (Yeah, basement-dwelling nazis, no one cares what hurts their feelings.)
quote:What did Strouhal say about Abusir?
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
The following is very interesting, especially because Eugen Strouhal has some interesting data on the Abusir settlement, which I'll post at another time.
quote:sorry didn't see this the first time.
Originally posted by Swenet:
^Help me track down the mtDNA L candidates that some of these maps' pie charts are based on.... I've searched for this Italian sample, but I can't find it.
quote:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047248413001383
Turning to the Iberomaurusian, although the deposits at Taforalt
represent a thick and fairly continuous record of human occupa-
tion, there are in fact subtle variations in the cultural sequence. The
clearest example is the switch from IB1 with marginally backed
(‘Ouchtata’) blades and bladelets to IB2 dominated by microlithic
backed bladelets. The actual transition between the two phases is
marked by a sharp sedimentary contact between Units Y2/Y1.
quote:Either it's that (back mutation), it's not L at all, or the L3d2 lineage accumulated it in the meantime. Whatever lineage that ancient sample belongs to, it's older than L3d2, so as long as the differences are proportional to time (which they may be in this case, differences are not that much of a problem.
Originally posted by capra:
L3d2 has C16111T, which is a recurrent control region mutation, yet isn't that common so it's better than nothing. on the other hand it has upstream T16124C, which the sample does not, so we'd need a back mutation. 16124 did back mutate within L3b so not far-fetched. but could be extinct N*, or pre-N5, or something like that as well. L3d2 would be interesting.
quote:Notice that the ancestry tests in this paper don't tell you anything in regards to the Mesolithic samples. They're trying to make you think that the tests are valid and informative, but they're not answering any questions that are raised their results. For instance, what does it even mean to be WHG? You can repeat it a thousand times throughout the paper and assign ancestry to that category, but you've never explained what it means. And then when they find samples that are largely WHG, but with some non-WHG elements, they never investigate what that is. In some papers they don't even point it out when that happens, like they don't see it the elephant in the room. Their whole job is supposed to be to reconstruct populations and admixture events, so why is that not happening when it comes to European HGs?
Originally posted by Tyrannohotep:
And from the supps, admixture proportions for the ancient individuals analyzed.
I'm a bit surprised to see that Cheddar Man (third man down from the top) already has a little snippet of Anatolian Neolithic-like ancestry. Either there was already some admixture from the Anatolian Neolithic trickling north into Cheddar's territory, or it's actually something else and the algorithm misidentified it (there are only two options presented, Anatolian Neolithic and WHG).
quote:JK2888
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
^ I fully agree, and we have to study and understand this man Felix von Luschan, only then will we fully understand this "Abisir paper" and its place in history.
http://www.ezakwantu.com/Gallery%20Herero%20and%20Namaqua%20Genocide.htm
The fact the title emphasizes on "Sub-Saharans" being least indigenous and or related to ancient Egypt, according to "their" findings is much forth telling.
Yet, at least one of the samples is clearly African in origin, which has SNP's that can easily be found in the SSA region, specimen JK2888 and is very old in the region. However, this is probably what they clam as being recent in this supposed paper.
Here is a well put together summary of the derived alleles, which shows the JK2888 is Ptolemaic and is dated 97–2 0/1.
The other specimen is included as well and dates back to max, 769 BC.
https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/06/01/phenotype-snps-from-ancient-egypt/
Another point I like to make is how a Google search gives 13.500 results, showing this spread like wildfire. (a great move by the chief strategist)
Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes suggest an increase of Sub-Saharan African ancestry in post-Roman periods.
quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Djehuti posted something similar here:
quote:http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004382;p=3#000110
Originally posted by Djehuti:
"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians)."
The term "Negroid influence" suggests intermixture, but as the table suggests this hair is more "Negroid" than the San and the Zulu samples, currently the most Negroid hair in existence!
In another study, hair samples from ten 18th-25th dynasty individuals produced an average index of 51! As far back as 1877, Dr. Pruner-Bey analyzed six ancient Egyptian hair samples. Their average index of 64.4 was similar to the Tasmanians who lie at the periphery of the African-haired populations(1).
A team of Italian anthropologists published their research in the Journal of Human Evolution in 1972 and 1980. They measured two samples consisting of 26 individuals from pre-dynastic, 12th dynasty and 18th dynasty mummies. They produced a mean index of 66.50...
[…]
"The occipital bun is reminiscent of Mesolithic Nubians (see below). Sagittal plateau, rounded forehead with moderately projecting glabella; globular cranium with high vault. Protrusion of incisors, receding chin and steep mandible. Very vertical zygomatic arches and pronounced maxillary prognathism."-- X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980)
