Please help me to figure out if my worries are insecurities or real concerns.
I met an Egyptian man online in September of 2003. This gentleman was not the first Egyptian I had spoken with on line, as it seems very many like to flirt as in other cultures.
But, this one interested me because he was not young - he is 53 and I feel that he is a lot more mature than men who want pictures and to talk sex and then dissappear.
He is very charming, of course, is divorced and has a teenaged son. He is a professional man and wants us to be married "if I like him". Those are his exact words.
He constantly reassures me that he is happy with me already and is only concerned that I like him.
He is the sweetest man I think I have ever met. Highly sexed, yes, but so am I so we match well.
He has told me about his mother, briefly about his father, though almost nothing of his ex-wife - except that they are divorced.
My problem is that he seems very secretive. I had a picture that I use online, so I shared it with him, but he seems deathly afraid of allowing me to see his picture.
In one of our earlier conversations, we exchanged tel numbers, but I have since lost it. I asked him for it again two weeks ago, and he seemed to evade giving it to me.
On my birthday, he was to have obtained a picture of himself so that I could see him. On the day, when we spoke online, he was very sorry, he could not get a camcorder.
We have never spoken by phone, he says he is not good with spoken english, and I am assuming that he is embarrased about it. I know that accomplished men, do sometimes have a hard time dealing with things they are less than expert at.
But, I am to travel to Egypt to meet him in April. I am becoming worried about what I am walking into. No picture, no phone number, just a promise to marry if I like him.
Having writen this all out I feel a bit like a fool. The only reason I hold any hope that he is real in his intentions is that Arab culture is so different from Western.
I realize that people marry without having seen each other, or having developed a personal relationship there. So I am telling myself that this behavior may not seem strange to him.
Some one help! Am I a fool, or is there some hope?
p.s. He has expressed no real interest in coming to the US. Only, if I do not like Egypt, he will come here.
Help!!!!
BTW persoanlly I doubt he is divorced.
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UK Co-owner of www.toursinluxor.co.uk Accommodation and Tours in Luxor
quote:
Originally posted by Rhi_Sarah:
Can't some muslim men marry more than one woman?
delete
[This message has been edited by lisane (edited 10 July 2004).]
Regarding where Habib204 is coming from -the way she grew up - I can't imagine that she either wants to be married to a married man (in this case he would have lied) or she even wants to share her husband w/ another woman......
Let me answer some of your questions. The first is, how do you fall in love with someone from another culture and on line?
In the USA women are treated quite different than in Arabic countries. We like to think of it as equality ( but in reality it is vast inequality ).
When we are ready to be married we are at a big disadvantage. Most American men are not taught to see marriage as an advantage, but as a burden. They also have the expectation that a wife will earn as much money or more than they do. Many American men also feel that it is weakness to show his woman how much he cares. He is considered weak by his friends to do so. An american husband, gets all of the benefits of marriage - with little responsibility. And they are not taught to help with home duties.
There are of course men who do not fit this profile, but they are hard to find. And it is usually considered the woman's responsibility to make him do the things that a man should for his family. Although the woman is then accused of nagging or being too hard or quarrelsome.
I was married before and am just recently divorced because he refused to support our family and expected me to earn money, care for home, children and family business affairs. Also he was unfaithful, as I never was in 20 years. And though I am just recently divorced, I have lived as a single woman for the past four years.
I am 44 now and the best woman I have ever been at this age.
So you are correct, I have no intention of sharing a man with another woman.
Now to your answer. I love all of life and people and new or different does not frighten me at all. Insincerity scares the hell out of me.
Imagine how different it is to find men who want to marry, who feel that it is better to marry than to be single. Men who feel the responsibility for a wife and family.
Now imagine how it feels to find men who say "I love you" This to an American man is the ultimate sacrifice - to tell a woman that he loves her is like giving her a gold bar.
Before the rest of the American women get on my case, just think of your sisters and friends, and your own lives and see if I am not saying the truth.
I have an internet business of my own and so I am in contact with people all over the world each day. Most contacts are business, but I get a lot of questions from men who want to find a friend or possibly a mate.
I have learned to stay away from the young men, but older men (above fifty) can be very good friends. I have male friends from England, Lebanon, the UAE, who can call and just say "I am here for you to talk today. I am in no hurry. Say to me what is on your mind, whaat is bothering you."
You can develop deep relationships when you communicate without the distractions of a pretty face or a voice or a body that is attractive, or the temptations to have physical relations.
There are only the thoughts, the beliefs, the mind, the ideas and the feelings. These are things that are sometimes difficult to judge in person.
The drawback of course is the one I have. Now that I know this man's mind and am ready to open more, I feel as if he is a ghost with no face. And I will admit to feeling hurt that he would not honor his promise to show me his picture. Promises are important and sacred to me, so this is the major source of my distrust at this point.
I too feel that he has something to hide, though he denies this. I never considered, as Akshar supposed, that he could still be married. This was one of the first questions I asked, and more than once. But it would explain why he does not feel comfortable giving a phone number.
He writes English well enough, and I have the very simplest knowledge of Arabic, though I am taking a course so I can understand better. But he does not speak well at all and has expressed the desire for me to help him with this.
His explanation for not having a camcorder is he is afraid to have it around his children. Afraid that they would get into mischeif with it on the internet when he away. No picture? Claims he just does not have one.
I would love to come to Egypt to visit, I am a history fanatic, but it is very expensive and he is helping with this.
Thanks to your comments I have just posted a letter to him, expressing my concerns without the distraction of all his online kisses and I love you's. So I will keep you posted about how it turns out.
Thank you again for taking the time to answer.
As I mentioned in the post to Tigerlilly, I had not considered that he could just be lying about being divorced. As I learn more, I see that a man can say he is divorced without having told his wife, in which case, he would still be considered legally married.
He also asked if it was alright to rent an apartment instead of a hotel. When I answered, I did not realize that women are not to be unchaperoned with a man at all. Here is my western culture again.
Is there ever an age or circumstance, when women are more free to mingle with males? In public I am asking.
He said the apartment was a lot less expensive and that we could be alone together, where we could not in a hotel.
And before you tell me, I know now that this is not at all proper.
He also mentioned a religious marriage where the words are spoken and you are before a religious official. But in the US we have only one kind of marriage, and that is a legal one. I was not aware when we spoke of it, that there are different kinds of marriage in Egypt. So I am guilty of agreeing to this in ignorance.
If you would, tell me the ways that are acceptable for a woman to meet with a man in Egypt, and what the differences between the spoken marriage and the legal marriage are.
Even if I do not continue a relationship with this man, I get enough inquiries from Egyptian men to be more aware of what is what.
Thanks again for your post.
quote:
Originally posted by Habib204:
I too feel that he has something to hide, though he denies this. I never considered, as Akshar supposed, that he could still be married. This was one of the first questions I asked, and more than once. But it would explain why he does not feel comfortable giving a phone number.
...........His explanation for not having a camcorder is he is afraid to have it around his children. Afraid that they would get into mischeif with it on the internet when he away. No picture? Claims he just does not have one.
So he is divorced but afraid to have the children see a webcam.
Sorry doesn't add up.
For God sake you can unplug the things
If they are visiting intermitantly then why should they even know he has one.
He doesn't have a picture, then ask to see a copy of his id card. Which has a photo and ask for both back and front which will show his martial status. get it translated by an independent Arabic person. Then see the truth.
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UK Co-owner of www.toursinluxor.co.uk Accommodation and Tours in Luxor
quote:
Originally posted by Habib204:
Thanks for your post. I did especially want to hear from you, because you have been in both European and Arabic cultures.As I mentioned in the post to Tigerlilly, I had not considered that he could just be lying about being divorced. As I learn more, I see that a man can say he is divorced without having told his wife, in which case, he would still be considered legally married.
He also asked if it was alright to rent an apartment instead of a hotel. When I answered, I did not realize that women are not to be unchaperoned with a man at all. Here is my western culture again.
Is there ever an age or circumstance, when women are more free to mingle with males? In public I am asking.
He said the apartment was a lot less expensive and that we could be alone together, where we could not in a hotel.
And before you tell me, I know now that this is not at all proper.
He also mentioned a religious marriage where the words are spoken and you are before a religious official. But in the US we have only one kind of marriage, and that is a legal one. I was not aware when we spoke of it, that there are different kinds of marriage in Egypt. So I am guilty of agreeing to this in ignorance.
If you would, tell me the ways that are acceptable for a woman to meet with a man in Egypt, and what the differences between the spoken marriage and the legal marriage are.
Even if I do not continue a relationship with this man, I get enough inquiries from Egyptian men to be more aware of what is what.
Thanks again for your post.
For God sakes just check the US embassy website. Unless it is conduct in Cairo with your emabassy involved and the Ministry of Justice then it ain't legal outside Egypt. This may suit you but please don't assume it is the real thing
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UK Co-owner of www.toursinluxor.co.uk Accommodation and Tours in Luxor
quote:
Originally posted by Habib204:
Before the rest of the American women get on my case, just think of your sisters and friends, and your own lives and see if I am not saying the truth.
.
You may have noticed that this board is dominated by women, particularly American and British women who have read many posts similar to yours and with time have lost any compassion, objectivity or simple kindness. They no longer have hearts.
They will attack one and all in a blink of an eye, but such is the internet, impersonal and distant.
They are hiding behind a shield, similar to LA drivers, they're quick to give you the finger from behind the wheel but face to face will great you with smile.
I believe that is called cowardness.
"I travel egypt and meet man 35 old he say no marrie before he say he marrie me online internet, i go egypt he nik nik me and no marrie advice please" http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum1/HTML/000920.html
I find it interesting that you have been following the threads well enough to make assumptions about the nature of the women who participate, but not well enough to find a solution to your problem.
Is it possible that what you consider a lack in "simple kindness" is really an impatience with women who refuse to empower themselves by learning from the experiences of others?
quote:
Originally posted by homesick1:
You may have noticed that this board is dominated by women, particularly American and British women who have read many posts similar to yours and with time have lost any compassion, objectivity or simple kindness. They no longer have hearts.
They will attack one and all in a blink of an eye, but such is the internet, impersonal and distant.
They are hiding behind a shield, similar to LA drivers, they're quick to give you the finger from behind the wheel but face to face will great you with smile.
I believe that is called cowardness.
[This message has been edited by lisane (edited 10 July 2004).]
[This message has been edited by homesick1 (edited 11 March 2004).]
[This message has been edited by homesick1 (edited 11 March 2004).]
just take it easy, come for a holiday, but do insist of staying at a hotel, alone! Any decent Egypt. man will never ever ask you to come to Egypt and share an apartment with him. The only kind of marriage he should propose is the legal and recognized one, at the Ministry of Justice Annex, read it up at the US embassy webpage in Egypt.
The other is just a piece of paper, (it is called orfi marriage) that will give him the right to stay with you in an apartment or hotel, while it does not give you any of the rights you are entitled to in a regular marriage (a home, financial support, child support etc.) and releases him of any responsibility towards you! once both original papers are torn, it is as if you had never married.
So come to Egypt, have a good time and a great holiday at your hotel, spend time to get to know this man and see what he is up to. Personal advice: don't let him kiss you, or hug you - it is not just 'normal' Egyptian behaviour (I used to think in the past, the men and boys in Hurghada like to kiss the girls on the cheeks and hug them because they are so friendly and more easy going than Europeans! ouuuch).
In reality it is quite the contrary, the more the man respects and cherishes you, the less he'll compromise you.
love and peace, Karin
This is advice that I truly appreciate.
Are you from New Jersey?
I understand that it must be really difficult time for you right now (after the divorce) but I think that you should take this man more as a friend then anything else. People like hearing that someone loves them, cares about them, wants to be with them and they would love to believe anything especially when they are going through some tough times.
Let your instinct guide you otherwise you will feel very betrayed to find out the real truth. You know deep down inside that this is not right and it's not a question of nationality or religion. Take your time. If he is even against the odds the right one for you he will wait and if you are supposted to be together you will. Enjoy Egypt and have some fun! There is someone out there for you and you will find each other. Take care.
[This message has been edited by ja (edited 12 March 2004).]
softouch
quote:
Originally posted by Habib204:
Found this site by accident. It is very interesting.Please help me to figure out if my worries are insecurities or real concerns.
I met an Egyptian man online in September of 2003. This gentleman was not the first Egyptian I had spoken with on line, as it seems very many like to flirt as in other cultures.
But, this one interested me because he was not young - he is 53 and I feel that he is a lot more mature than men who want pictures and to talk sex and then dissappear.
He is very charming, of course, is divorced and has a teenaged son. He is a professional man and wants us to be married "if I like him". Those are his exact words.
He constantly reassures me that he is happy with me already and is only concerned that I like him.
He is the sweetest man I think I have ever met. Highly sexed, yes, but so am I so we match well.
He has told me about his mother, briefly about his father, though almost nothing of his ex-wife - except that they are divorced.
My problem is that he seems very secretive. I had a picture that I use online, so I shared it with him, but he seems deathly afraid of allowing me to see his picture.
In one of our earlier conversations, we exchanged tel numbers, but I have since lost it. I asked him for it again two weeks ago, and he seemed to evade giving it to me.
On my birthday, he was to have obtained a picture of himself so that I could see him. On the day, when we spoke online, he was very sorry, he could not get a camcorder.
We have never spoken by phone, he says he is not good with spoken english, and I am assuming that he is embarrased about it. I know that accomplished men, do sometimes have a hard time dealing with things they are less than expert at.
But, I am to travel to Egypt to meet him in April. I am becoming worried about what I am walking into. No picture, no phone number, just a promise to marry if I like him.
Having writen this all out I feel a bit like a fool. The only reason I hold any hope that he is real in his intentions is that Arab culture is so different from Western.
I realize that people marry without having seen each other, or having developed a personal relationship there. So I am telling myself that this behavior may not seem strange to him.
Some one help! Am I a fool, or is there some hope?
p.s. He has expressed no real interest in coming to the US. Only, if I do not like Egypt, he will come here.
Help!!!!
Cheers