be a bit nicer to the tourists?? If you are a brit in Sharm, or any part of Egypt in fact, it is equivalent to walking around with a T-shirt on with a pound sign on it. They love us, as we never argue too much about money and are easily persuaded to part with our cash, unlike some of our other tourists companions who say no and walk away. This applies to those living there or on holiday. The figure of 350 quid is often mentioned as a starting (and last ‘good’) price when egy’s are trying to sell you something (other than property, when the skies the limit). Everything seems to cost 350 on your first few visits. Remember, everyone wants to make some money off you…now I’m all for supporting the Country, I understand unemployment is over 20 million, but come on, us brits like good value, and frankly, the egy’s do tend to spoil it for us. There are three prices-the locals price, the tourists price AND the English price- the highest of all, as like I said, we don’t like confrontation, often just want to get out of the shop, so we pay. They all have a brother/cousin/friend in the UK, and what is this obsession with supermarkets??? (asda price, every little helps, buy one get one free etc) When you try and enter into a conversation, they are lost, as if they only got taught those ‘catchprases’ by a mate and don’t really understand what they are saying. From the moment you get into the airport ( and by the way, the cab should cost you no more than 40 EGY- I know people who have been stung for 300), the egy’s are just waiting to rob you any way they can. Do you want a taxi? Excursion? Meal? Perfume-don’t mention the perfume…Why can’t they just leave us alone to enjoy our holiday? We work hard, and when we’re away on our break, we don’t want to sit in peoples shops drinking tea every day. We want to enjoy the surroundings, and experience a relaxed atmosphere, not retreat back to our hotel complexes, as there’s less hassle there.
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
go somewhere else if you don't like it Posted by oldbag (Member # 9889) on :
I think you're being a bit hard. One of my friends, a law graduate from Cairo just could not get a job in the law and was working as a tout for an "art gallery" - to cut a long story short is now working in a perfume shop in Sharm. To me that's much better than dragging unsuspecting tourists in off the streets to 'visit my uncle's art gallery' and purchase papyrus and oils (ie moi - this is how we met on my first ever unsuspecting day in Cairo ). His brother, also a law graduate, is working in a sportswear shop also in Sharm. Not an ideal situation for either of them, but you have to take what you can, and if you're saving for the future, that is where the jobs are. They don't come from a rich family and the family have a three room flat so to marry, they will have to save up everything themselves including a flat because its not one of those houses with the flat upstairs reserved for the eldest son's marriage. Its not their fault that English people are too embarrassed to say no and mean it.
Posted by charm el feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
hi liz... welcome to ES.
julia, thats such a crap attitude. the fact that liz has been to egypt shows she wanted to travel there... its then up to the egyptians to make an impression on her... which they obviously have.
liz, i know exactly what your saying, and yes you are so right about the 3 price thing... but i have to say that the fact they can do it is OUR fault... well, not fault, just the way we are... and they exploit that cause they can.
it really is up to us to be firm (but polite) in expressing our feelings towards them, as i did, and i have to say, was greeted with friendship! they genuinely do love the brits... yes they see £££ at first, but if you convey the fact that you really dont have the money/time or just dont want to shop today they are soooo cool about it, really.
im sorry you had a rough time in sharm... i love the place and the people dearly. i wish here was a bit more info given to the british tourist before landing in sharm.
Posted by Penny (Member # 1925) on :
Charm is exactly right we don't need to let ourselves be ripped off and anyway barganing can be great fun. You also have to learn how to keep things in perspective and not get stressed out about everything. The price from the airport may well be LE40 but I know for sure I will give myself one hell of a headache to try and get that so I am happy to stick at LE50 and know I am being fair. As for shopping in Sharm my guide is to ask for the price then with one hell of alot of charm offer exactly 1/4 then depending on how much I really want the item bargain from there. If I don't like the price then it is so easy to smile sweetly say no thanks and walk away. Yes we are Brits and we are polite and it works very well for us. Oh and all those daft questions they ask just answer and put the same question back to them and before you know it you are having a genuinely nice conversation with an Egyptian. And if like me you have some off days when you can't be bothered with any of it, well put your sunglasses on, (yes even at night) and walk and ignore them all that works as well!
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by germanjulia: go somewhere else if you don't like it
Exactly
Posted by sunburnt (Member # 4986) on :
It is not only tourists who get stung, lol I was down town looking for a certain chemist when someone approached me and asked me if they could help, I told him no thank you I was looking for a certain shop and I also explained I wasn't a tourist I was a resident. well to cut a long story short 5 minutes later i', in his shop and he is trying to sell me perfume, got to give him 10 out of 10 for trying, but yes it is a hassle.
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
quote:Originally posted by oldbag: I think you're being a bit hard.
yes, probably. although my advice came across harsher than i wanted it to.
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: julia, thats such a crap attitude
hm, i don't think so. i think it's the easiest and most logical advice one could give liz.
i don't really know how to explain my opinion... i think it's just like that:
you go on holiday somewhere and you like it - so you come back. you go on holiday somewhere and you DON'T like it- so you DON't come back!
i'm not saying that liz is wrong with what she says about how the locals treat her e.g. when shopping, and i don't say that the bad way tourists are -sometimes- treated is good, but eh! what are we supposed to do?! try to change them all? try to turn the egyptians into something they just aren't? make them behave like people from the west?
it's their mentality!
that's why i said liz should simply go somewhere else.
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
But Egypt is dependent on tourism and should not drive tourists away.
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: But Egypt should not drive tourists away.
that is correct, and nobody ever said that the way the tourists are treated is good.
Posted by charm el feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
julia... i didnt mean to be abrupt, its just that the way your statement came across really does leave a lot to be desired.
its like.. well.. if someone is dissatisfied with the service that either one of my 3 companies provides, there could be lots of reasons for it.
1. it could be that they have been let down due to time constraints....
2. could be they didnt get what they were expecting...
3. maybe one of my staff treated them rudely due to a bad day etc...
either way, i dont know about it till its brought to my attention.
once it is brought to my attention i can deal with it. customer satisfaction is HIGH on my list of agendas... even a disgruntled customer/client can be appeased and turned around into a customer who recommends you.
now, egypt and its tourist industry is just the same in my book... id rather try to explain things and help to make things better than tell that person to just F off... which julia, is practically what you said when you consider this person joined this forum to make her complaint heard.
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: julia... i didnt mean to be abrupt
don't worry about it. feel free to be abrubt to me whenever you want. noone except of one guy has ever abused me here. i feel like i'm missing something.
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: better than tell that person to just F off... which julia, is practically what you said when you consider this person joined this forum to make her complaint heard.
that is quite rigorous now. still there's probably a bit of truth in it. i just felt annoyed because it was like her first post ever, and she went like a bull at a gate and didn't even say "hi", "how are you" or things like that. by the way, i liked your example.
okay now: sorry liz, for this unfriendly welcome! Posted by charm el feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
hey julia... again.. sorry for the 'rigorous' statement... again... never really meant it to be...
how are you anyway?... we seem to be on line at the same time these days!
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: hey julia... again.. sorry for the 'rigorous' statement... again... never really meant it to be...
how are you anyway?... we seem to be on line at the same time these days!
i'm fine, thank you!
but before we become too friendly now, read what i answered you at the pedophile thread! Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: But Egypt is dependent on tourism and should not drive tourists away.
Are you a tourist LL? What exactly is your status in Egypt?
I understand you and Keefy are selling real estate now-a-days and was wondering what is the tax rate for people like yourselves?
Posted by Malesh (Member # 10401) on :
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: But Egypt is dependent on tourism and should not drive tourists away.
Are you a tourist LL? What exactly is your status in Egypt?
I understand you and Keefy are selling real estate now-a-days and was wondering what is the tax rate for people like yourselves ?
LOOOOL!!!!! Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: But Egypt is dependent on tourism and should not drive tourists away.
Are you a tourist LL? What exactly is your status in Egypt?
I understand you and Keefy are selling real estate now-a-days and was wondering what is the tax rate for people like yourselves?
The same as for everyone else. LOL Do you want to inspect my accounts? Posted by jessie (Member # 681) on :
I'm thinking of having a T shirt printed in Arabic 'Khawagaia. felous kiteer mafish moch' and maybe in small letters 'f'il mishmish' Posted by Luxorlife (Member # 9763) on :
If you read this month's Egypt Today, you'll see a lengthy article on just this problem. The Egyptian tourist authority really does want to change attitudes, as it realises that the attitude of shopkeepers etc is preventing many possible return visitors from returning.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover:
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: But Egypt is dependent on tourism and should not drive tourists away.
Are you a tourist LL? What exactly is your status in Egypt?
I understand you and Keefy are selling real estate now-a-days and was wondering what is the tax rate for people like yourselves?
The same as for everyone else. LOL Do you want to inspect my accounts?
Everyone else who is an Egyptian citizen? Everyone else who is a permanent resident? Everyone else who has temporary work visa? Everyone else who has a tourist Visa and is working illegal?
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
What about you Automiatic, which of these categories do you fit in. I own the company I work for and do not need a work permit so I am not working illegally anywhere. How much of your income comes from undeclared baksheesh Auto? At least I have a full set of accounts for my business. Why the interest in my finances anyway? Are you looking for a job?
Allah has been kind to me. At 61 I am wealthy enough not to need to work ever again so I certainly do not need to cheat any government out of money owed to them. I run my company (which is extensive) out of interest not out of desperation.
Posted by germanjulia (Member # 8781) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: At 61 I...
i know this does not fit into your conversation now,sorry, but WOW you're 61?! that would never have occurred to me! Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
I was 61 last week and I have never tried to hide my age. I was born the day after they tested the first atomic bomb. That makes me ancient compared with most posters and in European terms a 'Senior Citizen' Posted by Malesh (Member # 10401) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: I was 61 last week and I have never tried to hide my age. I was born the day after they tested the first atomic bomb. That makes me ancient compared with most posters and in European terms a 'Senior Citizen'
Happy Birthday! Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Thank you Malesh. That was appreciated - being 61 was not nearly so traumatic as the emotional rites of passage involved in being 60.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by : What about you Automiatic, which of these categories do you fit in.
I am not obligated by Law to pay Taxes to the Egyptian Government.
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: I own the company I work for and do not need a work permit s.
I don't know for a fact that that is true but since you own your own company and all why not share with us some information that can be helpful to the readers. What are the rules regarding : 1-Owning a business? 2-Operating a business? 3-What tax obligations would one have?
Are their any other laws a non-Egyptian should be concerned of when thinking of starting a business in Egypt?
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: How much of your income comes from undeclared baksheesh Auto?
Was that the only Arabic you know? It's lame!
quote:Originally posted by : Are you looking for a job?
Sure, what kind of work I'm going have to do and how much are you gong to pay?
quote:Originally posted by : Allah has been kind to me. At 61 I am wealthy enough not to need to work ever again
Alhamdu Lillah alathi la yohmad ala makruhun siwah.
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Automatic, if you are not obliged to pay taxes to the Egyptian government then why are you in the least bit interested in whether I do. I suggest you read of few books on Egyptian law and find out about setting up a business yourself. The world is full of angry young men who have nothing to offer their country except their frustation and anger but I am sure that others would be interested in your progress and you would learn a lot from it.
Egypt is looking for overseas investment and in many cases offers a five-year tax break as an incentive to people to bring their money to Egypt and create employment opportunities here. I am surprised that you are so negative about investment that offers employment to Egyptians rather than taking from them.
I take nothing from Egypt. Although it is absolutely none of your business I will tell you that half my income from Europe is brought to Egypt and everything that I earn while in Egypt stays there. I have a home and a life there which requires financial support. Plus, enabling others to move to Egypt brings their investment too. Why do you find that so reprehensible?
As for your insult about my level of knowledge concerning Arabic, you are whistling in the wind and know nothing of me or of what my Arabic skills are nor are you ever likely to.
In the meatime why not post something interesting concerning the subject of this thread. Whatever you may think, Egypt needs the finance of its tourist industry and there is no better place to see an example of that than in Luxor whose whole infrastructure depends on its visitors.
Posted by Lazeez (Member # 10655) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: But Egypt is dependent on tourism and should not drive tourists away.
We have better things to worry about than driving tourists away. It's better for Egypt to become less dependent on tourism.
Posted by ardooda (Member # 5159) on :
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by : What about you Automiatic, which of these categories do you fit in.
I am not obligated by Law to pay Taxes to the Egyptian Government.
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: I own the company I work for and do not need a work permit s.
I don't know for a fact that that is true but since you own your own company and all why not share with us some information that can be helpful to the readers. What are the rules regarding : 1-Owning a business? 2-Operating a business? 3-What tax obligations would one have?
Are their any other laws a non-Egyptian should be concerned of when thinking of starting a business in Egypt?
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: How much of your income comes from undeclared baksheesh Auto?
Was that the only Arabic you know? It's lame!
quote:Originally posted by : Are you looking for a job?
Sure, what kind of work I'm going have to do and how much are you gong to pay?
quote:Originally posted by : Allah has been kind to me. At 61 I am wealthy enough not to need to work ever again
Alhamdu Lillah alathi la yohmad ala makruhun siwah.
Interesting.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Automatic, if you are not obliged to pay taxes to the Egyptian government then why are you in the least bit interested in whether I do. I suggest you read of few books on Egyptian law and find out about setting up a business yourself. The world is full of angry young men who have nothing to offer their country except their frustation and anger but I am sure that others would be interested in your progress and you would learn a lot from it.
Egypt is looking for overseas investment and in many cases offers a five-year tax break as an incentive to people to bring their money to Egypt and create employment opportunities here. I am surprised that you are so negative about investment that offers employment to Egyptians rather than taking from them.
I take nothing from Egypt. Although it is absolutely none of your business I will tell you that half my income from Europe is brought to Egypt and everything that I earn while in Egypt stays there. I have a home and a life there which requires financial support. Plus, enabling others to move to Egypt brings their investment too. Why do you find that so reprehensible?
Bla Bla Bla Bla
Where are the answerers. Well, next time someone asks questions about real estate tell him/her to read a few books on Egyptian law. Don't be so eager to offer them assistance and ask them to pm you.
I thought that's what this forum is for, helping each other and all that crap.
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: you are whistling in the wind and know nothing of me or of what my Arabic skills are nor are you ever likely to.
You wanna bet?
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Egypt needs the finance of its tourist industry and there is no better place to see an example of that than in Luxor whose whole infrastructure depends on its visitors.
I thank you very much for your great insight and hope that you would share this knowledge with the Egyptian government as I'm sure the are completely unaware of the needs of Egypt and Egyptians.
Well while we're at it, do you know some good lawyer and accountant in Luxor? I could use both.
I would also greatly appreciate the address for the Egyptian revenue services...you know the one you send your income tax return to. I'm assuming that that's how it's done. Also any information on registering a business and that five year tax break would be great. I mean how much money do I have to invest in order to get that tax break? Or is it left up to me to decide?
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: The world is full of angry young men who have nothing to offer their country except their frustation and anger but I am sure that others would be interested in your progress and you would learn a lot from it.
Actually apart from investing and getting that five-year tax break I would also like to start a sort of non-profit organization . It would require a few angry young men and women with some computer skills. Law school graduates would be perfect for the kind of research and the paper pushing they would have to do. If you know a few of them can you get them to contact me. Thanks a lot.
Posted by ardooda (Member # 5159) on :
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Automatic, if you are not obliged to pay taxes to the Egyptian government then why are you in the least bit interested in whether I do. I suggest you read of few books on Egyptian law and find out about setting up a business yourself. The world is full of angry young men who have nothing to offer their country except their frustation and anger but I am sure that others would be interested in your progress and you would learn a lot from it.
Egypt is looking for overseas investment and in many cases offers a five-year tax break as an incentive to people to bring their money to Egypt and create employment opportunities here. I am surprised that you are so negative about investment that offers employment to Egyptians rather than taking from them.
I take nothing from Egypt. Although it is absolutely none of your business I will tell you that half my income from Europe is brought to Egypt and everything that I earn while in Egypt stays there. I have a home and a life there which requires financial support. Plus, enabling others to move to Egypt brings their investment too. Why do you find that so reprehensible?
Bla Bla Bla Bla
Where are the answerers. Well, next time someone asks questions about real estate tell him/her to read a few books on Egyptian law. Don't be so eager to offer them assistance and ask them to pm you.
I thought that's what this forum is for, helping each other and all that crap.
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: you are whistling in the wind and know nothing of me or of what my Arabic skills are nor are you ever likely to.
You wanna bet?
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Egypt needs the finance of its tourist industry and there is no better place to see an example of that than in Luxor whose whole infrastructure depends on its visitors.
I thank you very much for your great insight and hope that you would share this knowledge with the Egyptian government as I'm sure the are completely unaware of the needs of Egypt and Egyptians.
Well while we're at it, do you know some good lawyer and accountant in Luxor? I could use both.
I would also greatly appreciate the address for the Egyptian revenue services...you know the one you send your income tax return to. I'm assuming that that's how it's done. Also any information on registering a business and that five year tax break would be great. I mean how much money do I have to invest in order to get that tax break? Or is it left up to me to decide?
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: The world is full of angry young men who have nothing to offer their country except their frustation and anger but I am sure that others would be interested in your progress and you would learn a lot from it.
Actually apart from investing and getting that five-year tax break I would also like to start a sort of non-profit organization . It would require a few angry young men and women with some computer skills. Law school graduates would be perfect for the kind of research and the paper pushing they would have to do. If you know a few of them can you get them to contact me. Thanks a lot.
Even more interesting. Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Hello Dee. Nice to see you again
None of the above has any relevance whatsoever to whether Egypt needs tourists or not.
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Posted by Ardooda
Actually apart from investing and getting that five-year tax break I would also like to start a sort of non-profit organization . It would require a few angry young men and women with some computer skills. Law school graduates would be perfect for the kind of research and the paper pushing they would have to do. If you know a few of them can you get them to contact me. Thanks a lot. _________________________________________________
Ardooda/Dee, I am so pleased that you would like to start a non profit making organisation in Luxor and to employ angry and frustrated young men with some computer skills like Automatic. You could chanel some of his and your energy into taking some of the poor boys off the Corniche instead of worrying about what I am doing.
I think that if a non profit making venture was tried then it would be better to chanel it into something that women can do to earn a living when they find themselves alone and without support. The south of Egypt is very different from the USA or even Cairo, and the women there could do with your support. I will tell the powers that be to contract you about it. I am already in talks with a Belgian woman about such a project and will pass on details of your post to her and tell her she can contact you through this forum.
If you are genuine in a desire to help people instead of just railing against me and the world then your post is commendable and a lot of women will remember you in their prayers.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
actually, if you read the post all dee has said is 'interesting' and 'even more interesting' it was automatic that said the rest, which dee found interesting. I also find it interesting. Connie, you are normally so quick to give advice and warnings to anyone regarding egypt, especially its gigalo element, starting a business in egypt is something many would probably benefit from your advice, as you have freely given regarding men, religion, marriage, where to shop, eat, among many other bits of useful advice, so why is it now all you will say is read a book on it?? that aside, do you have a book title and author so we too can read on setting up a business in egypt please?
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
I advised him to read to book because I am neither a tax expert nor a lawyer, of which you are well aware. I give advice only on those areas that I have experience of. Aysiha you give excellent and expert advice through many different forums on life in Luxor and about Islam so I am sure that you can research and advise us all on a book about Egyptian tax law. I do not know of one.
I am sorry if I misinterpreted Ardooda's post and thought her to be philanthropic rather than just interested. I can genuinely put you and her in touch with someone who is interested in making life easier for Egyptian women in the south.
Posted by Penny (Member # 1925) on :
Not that it's got anything to do with this thread but if you want the laws on business and taxation this is a good site.
And just a personal opinion: it is the responsability of the Egyptian government to have systems in place that work to ensure that ALL citizens and foreign investors pay the correct taxes but lets be honest if the residents operate under a culture of tax evasion on a huge scale you can hardly expect foreigners to be standing in line to sign up when there is not even a proper system in place to encourage them to do so.
The first thing any Egyptian lawyer will tell you when you ask to register a property is how to set up the contracts to avoid paying the 3% tax due on the purchase price. It is endemic in the whole society. So if there is going to be reform it has to come from the top and not from the likes of foriegn investors who arrive from a culture where they actually accept the payment of taxes as being an unavoibale part of life.
Posted by ardooda (Member # 5159) on :
More and more interesting. Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: I advised him to read to book because I am neither a tax expert nor a lawyer, of which you are well aware. I give advice only on those areas that I have experience of.
Yes of course I am aware that you are neither a tax expert nor a lawyer and am also aware that you yourself have set up a business in Egypt, as you have clearly told everyone so you DO know something about it and your advice would be appreciated im sure. No one was asking you to give advice on something you know nothing about or have no experience of
quote: Aysiha you give excellent and expert advice through many different forums on life in Luxor and about Islam so I am sure that you can research and advise us all on a book about Egyptian tax law. I do not know of one.
i am unsure where this comment came from. I do not give 'expert' advice on life in Luxor as you know I dont even live there yet. There is also nowhere I give 'expert' advice on Islam either is there?? What connects any of this to learning about starting a business in Egypt anyway? with you suggesting a book we would assume thats how YOU learnt about starting a business there, but you obviously haven't. I wonder why you are avoiding the questions.
quote: I am sorry if I misinterpreted Ardooda's post and thought her to be philanthropic rather than just interested. I can genuinely put you and her in touch with someone who is interested in making life easier for Egyptian women in the south.
This is a silly comment dont you think?? no one was asking that kind of question at all, the question was regarding setting up a business and paying taxes etc, all things related to business in Egypt, which you Do have some great knowledge of and for some strange reason do not want to part with it or give any advice. Why?
As for your uncalled for post to automatic, he/she was asking a question, you have assumed its an attack and retaliated by rediculous comments assuming he/she is some 'angry young men who have nothing to offer their country except their frustation and anger' which is a bit cruel and nasty dont you think? in light of what was actually posted and not what you assumed he/she was thinking or assuming the motive of the post.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
Penny thank you very much for the link, im sure it will be helpful to those that are interested.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by Penny:
And just a personal opinion: it is the responsability of the Egyptian government to have systems in place that work to ensure that ALL citizens and foreign investors pay the correct taxes
Wrong, it is the responsibility of every human being to act with integrity and honesty.
quote:Originally posted by Penny: but lets be honest if the residents operate under a culture of tax evasion on a huge scale you can hardly expect foreigners to be standing in line to sign up when there is not even a proper system in place to encourage them to do so.
We have enough problems to deal with and the last thing we need is corrupt individual coming from foreign countries to steal from the poor and dare to call them rude. I would somewhat understand how a so called "Foreign Investor" would need to pay bribes to get things done since it's impossible to do business otherwise but to become a criminal and then blame it on the system is just stupid. Honest people don't cheat not if their very lives depended on it.
Re-read you post again and you will realize that what you're saying is that foreigners are only kept honest by threat of punishment by Law, that should be insulting.
Posted by sunburnt (Member # 4986) on :
Automatic you cant have it always, your saying an investor would need to pay bribes to get things done, but to be come an criminal and then blame it on the system is just stupid. The criminal is the person who does not allow things to be done unless he gets a bribe, the whole system is corrupt and the people at the top of the tree here in Egypt steal more off their own people than any foreign investor will ever do.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by sunburnt: Automatic you cant have it always, your saying an investor would need to pay bribes to get things done, but to be come an criminal and then blame it on the system is just stupid. The criminal is the person who does not allow things to be done unless he gets a bribe, the whole system is corrupt and the people at the top of the tree here in Egypt steal more off their own people than any foreign investor will ever do.
There's a woman whom I liked a lot and always wanted to have sex with but she was not interested. One day she was repeatedly raped by a few people. When I learned of what happened to her I thought what the heck if other raped her why don't I, and so I did.
Posted by DamselInDistress (Member # 7061) on :
Automatic, why is it not ok for people to cheat on their taxes but it is ok to have to pay bribes to get anything done in this country ? If you have paid any bribes, then this means you are being dishonest also by giving money to thieves. Your anger is understable but sadly misguided.
As for your above comment about rape, well I am hoping it is just a metaphor and not reality. Actually to joke about such a thing or even use it metaphorically is just plain SICK.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by DamselInDistress: Automatic, why is it not ok for people to cheat on their taxes but it is ok to have to pay bribes to get anything done in this country ? If you have paid any bribes, then this means you are being dishonest also by giving money to thieves. Your anger is understable but sadly misguided.
This is whay I wrote:
"I would somewhat understand how a so called "Foreign Investor" would need to pay bribes to get things done since it's impossible to do business otherwise but to become a criminal and then blame it on the system is just stupid. Honest people don't cheat not if their very lives depended on it."
The emphasis here is on "somewhat understand". The same way I would "somewhat understand" someone stealing a loaf of bread to feed himself or his family.
Neither is right but there's a huge difference between doing something ILLEGAL because it is the ONLY way possible and doing something ILLEGAL for profit. The fact remains both are wrong.
quote:Originally posted by DamselInDistress: As for your above comment about rape, well I am hoping it is just a metaphor and not reality. Actually to joke about such a thing or even use it metaphorically is just plain SICK.
Interesting. You find a metaphor sick and raping Egyptians justifiable.
Well back to the main theme of the thread, people like you do not deserve respect. There are more than enough decent human beings in the world who would love to visit and invest in Egypt that we don't have to put up with low lives like you. Go back to where you came from and be with those whom you don't find rude.
Posted by awrah (Member # 11479) on :
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by sunburnt: Automatic you cant have it always, your saying an investor would need to pay bribes to get things done, but to be come an criminal and then blame it on the system is just stupid. The criminal is the person who does not allow things to be done unless he gets a bribe, the whole system is corrupt and the people at the top of the tree here in Egypt steal more off their own people than any foreign investor will ever do.
There's a woman whom I liked a lot and always wanted to have sex with but she was not interested. One day she was repeatedly raped by a few people. When I learned of what happened to her I thought what the heck if other raped her why don't I, and so I did.
Auto why am I not surprised that you haven't married yet?
Is there a legal possibility that Canadian authorities can arrange a forced vasectomy in order to save this planet from you reproducing?
Can Vancouver authorities put you in a zoo somewhere with Andrea Yates so you both can work out your complexes?
Posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari (Member # 8356) on :
quote:Originally posted by awrah:
quote:Originally posted by Automatic:
quote:Originally posted by sunburnt: Automatic you cant have it always, your saying an investor would need to pay bribes to get things done, but to be come an criminal and then blame it on the system is just stupid. The criminal is the person who does not allow things to be done unless he gets a bribe, the whole system is corrupt and the people at the top of the tree here in Egypt steal more off their own people than any foreign investor will ever do.
There's a woman whom I liked a lot and always wanted to have sex with but she was not interested. One day she was repeatedly raped by a few people. When I learned of what happened to her I thought what the heck if other raped her why don't I, and so I did.
Auto why am I not surprised that you haven't married yet?
Is there a legal possibility that Canadian authorities can arrange a forced vasectomy in order to save this planet from you reproducing?
Can Vancouver authorities put you in a zoo somewhere with Andrea Yates so you both can work out your complexes?
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
YEKHREB BEETEK YA SONO!
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
My first business in Luxor was aimed at local people not at tourists. The cost of its license was minimal the baksheesh to get the signatures on the license was huge, but I paid it otherwise the business would never have been allowed to open. I have friends who opened a hotel and the baksheesh there ran into hundreds of thousdands of Egyptian pounds. The tax inspector came to the premises and inspected the books. Tax was assessed on this basis and dealt with by the manager who was also half owner. The employees were registered and we paid 'insurance' on all of them. I believe the rule is that for every one European that the business employs then it has to employ six Egyptians. This was not a problem as all out employees were Egptian.
For my present business, which is entirely internet based, the company is registered in the UK and our finances are assessed there in the usual way. Egypt is part of the international non-dual taxation group and the company brings money into Egypt. When we eventually open an office in Egypt then the company will have dual registration.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:Originally posted by liz007: be a bit nicer to the tourists?? If you are a brit in Sharm, or any part of Egypt in fact, it is equivalent to walking around with a T-shirt on with a pound sign on it. They love us, as we never argue too much about money and are easily persuaded to part with our cash, unlike some of our other tourists companions who say no and walk away. This applies to those living there or on holiday. The figure of 350 quid is often mentioned as a starting (and last ‘good’) price when egy’s are trying to sell you something (other than property, when the skies the limit). Everything seems to cost 350 on your first few visits. Remember, everyone wants to make some money off you…now I’m all for supporting the Country, I understand unemployment is over 20 million, but come on, us brits like good value, and frankly, the egy’s do tend to spoil it for us. There are three prices-the locals price, the tourists price AND the English price- the highest of all, as like I said, we don’t like confrontation, often just want to get out of the shop, so we pay. They all have a brother/cousin/friend in the UK, and what is this obsession with supermarkets??? (asda price, every little helps, buy one get one free etc) When you try and enter into a conversation, they are lost, as if they only got taught those ‘catchprases’ by a mate and don’t really understand what they are saying. From the moment you get into the airport ( and by the way, the cab should cost you no more than 40 EGY- I know people who have been stung for 300), the egy’s are just waiting to rob you any way they can. Do you want a taxi? Excursion? Meal? Perfume-don’t mention the perfume…Why can’t they just leave us alone to enjoy our holiday? We work hard, and when we’re away on our break, we don’t want to sit in peoples shops drinking tea every day. We want to enjoy the surroundings, and experience a relaxed atmosphere, not retreat back to our hotel complexes, as there’s less hassle there.
travel anywhere else and you will find the same ways....as an American I've always expected to be charged more for things as a foreigner and it has never changed country to country....egypt is a tourist country, appreciate it for what it is, for its hospitality and history, the kindness of its people and come back again next year Posted by ardooda (Member # 5159) on :
Interesting Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Good word that Ardodda - but boring after a while. Boring - that's a good word too.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
very, but it continues.
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
So I noticed. Boring. You and Dee pressed for the information. I provided it. Interesting possibly, boring definitely.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
i dont see where i pressed for information it was someone else that was actually asking, but hey blame me again as you do for most things. you provided no information anyway. i was referring to yourself as pretty boring in having to reply everytime i post anything, but then you obviously have nothing better to do, i have so i will stop now.
it is good to know though, that i am not the only one who knows you and who doesnt really like you much. you seem to have upset a lot of people LL
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: So I noticed. Boring. You and Dee pressed for the information. I provided it. Interesting possibly, boring definitely.
Thanks a lot for the information but I'm still a bit confused.
I want to start a business in Egypt to sell property. It also be Internet based and will deal with foreign buyers only.
-Does that mean I do not need to REGISTER a company in Egypt?
-The money I collect is exempt from taxes in Egypt?
-Why would I want to be taxed anywhere else other than Egypt?
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Automatic - buy that book and check on Egyptian tax laws. When you have solved the problem then come back and tell me and everyone else the situation. I would love total clarification of the subject.
However, I think that the topic was about how Egyptians treat tourists - not about my tax situation which is of no concern to anyone but me.
Ayisha - if you try and get your head together and get a job then you will be a lot happier.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Automatic - buy that book and check on Egyptian tax laws. When you have solved the problem then come back and tell me and everyone else the situation. I would love total clarification of the subject.
However, I think that the topic was about how Egyptians treat tourists - not about my tax situation which is of no concern to anyone but me.
Ayisha - if you try and get your head together and get a job then you will be a lot happier.
Which book? The reason I'm asking is that the books I read as well as the online information I received, all contradicts with what you wrote. Unlike a book, you can answer questions regarding issues I find confusing, a book can NOT.
If do not want to help just say so or don't reply, it's that simple.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: Ayisha - if you try and get your head together and get a job then you will be a lot happier.
aww LL thanks for the concern but my head is very together, i am happy, very happy thank you and i am working, but thanks for being concerned Posted by ardooda (Member # 5159) on :
quote:Originally posted by Luxorlover: So I noticed. Boring. You and Dee pressed for the information. I provided it. Interesting possibly, boring definitely.
LOL
I found Automatic's posts very interesting - never pressed you for any information. All I pressed here were a few buttons - which was soooo easy to do. Pavlov's dogs couldn't have reacted more predictably - lool... Anyhow, I may log in now and then and see if Automatic has more interesting things to write, but will be busy - going to visit with an Egyptian community charity I've been working with for seven years, and going to visit an Egyptian girl whose education I have been helping to support all that time ... After that I'll be having dinner with another Egyptian friend who ... well... never mind ... just another Egyptian who knows a lot about you and what you do... Anyhow, it was amusing and interesting dropping by for a bit, but gotta go now. Khalas. Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
Dee you really are totally boring. Blow your trumpet a bit more - others might even hear it. Press a few more buttoms you might even get some life into the forum your bitterness almost destroyed.
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
PS: Would the Egyptian friend who "knows a lot about me" (fame at last) be the one called BLUNT that I am sure everyone remembers, I know that she is a great friend of yours. Sad that.
Posted by mike rozier (Member # 10852) on :
this ruby chick was one of the egyption women hiting on me..
you are delusion Mike. Ruby wouldn't be hitting on you, but its cute the way you said it.
I think Ruby is the only Arab celeb today who hasn't had any work done. My daughter loves this chick and will spend 30 minutes dancing to the same Ruby video clip.
I think she is awesome.
Posted by mike rozier (Member # 10852) on :
if your in eygpt for some time it, you get used to the people hasseling you and it's easier just to say no and walk on by...
in the west your trained to be respectful of people so you lend a ear..by in eygpt, if you listen to the guys who come up to you on the street, your allready screwed..just say no (la,la,la,la), and as dion warrick says, "walk on by"
Posted by mike rozier (Member # 10852) on :
I think ruby is awesome too....
I also think she needs me..almost as bad as alizee.
I can just tell by looking at her..I can tell these things..
Posted by awrah (Member # 11479) on :
quote:Originally posted by mike rozier: if your in eygpt for some time it, you get used to the people hasseling you and it's easier just to say no and walk on by...
in the west your trained to be respectful of people so you lend a ear..by in eygpt, if you listen to the guys who come up to you on the street, your allready screwed..just say no (la,la,la,la), and as dion warrick says, "walk on by"
I don't really have a problem with this. I have only been to Egypt a few times. If anyone does start speaking to me my in-laws just scare them off.
But I don't do touristy places and when I am in a vacation area only the women will speak to me. I don't get these insistant sales pitches and I am lucky.
Posted by mike rozier (Member # 10852) on :
quote:Originally posted by awrah:
quote:Originally posted by mike rozier: if your in eygpt for some time it, you get used to the people hasseling you and it's easier just to say no and walk on by...
in the west your trained to be respectful of people so you lend a ear..by in eygpt, if you listen to the guys who come up to you on the street, your allready screwed..just say no (la,la,la,la), and as dion warrick says, "walk on by"
I don't really have a problem with this. I have only been to Egypt a few times. If anyone does start speaking to me my in-laws just scare them off.
But I don't do touristy places and when I am in a vacation area only the women will speak to me. I don't get these insistant sales pitches and I am lucky.
it's hard for people from the midwest, cause your not used to people just comeing up to you trying to sell something..I suppose on the coasts you have bums who try and panhandle..but they don't try and sell you something..
after a while it gets easy to say no...the worse place is giza...them guys should be run off..I don't know how many tuban deals I had to just lay on the ground..couse they put them in your hand the second you turn around..
I kinda fault the egyption goverment...somewhat...because they don't have enough industry to keep these guys busy..I like eygptions for the most part, I was inpressed how many have a college education, and are doing jobs that in the states college graduates don't do..
egypts main problem to me is, they don't have enough industry..thats all I could come away from egypt thinking..the people were nice enough, they seemed intelligent, but for some reason they just did'nt have the big industry jobs, the the states have..
Posted by * 7ayat * (Member # 7043) on :
why can't tourists be a bit nice to the egyptians? seriously every time i visit one of our tourist areas i'm appalled at how these people treat the egyptian waiters, hotel staff,beach boys, and sometimes kaman the egyptian tourists themselves!
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
I believe that the Egyptian Tourist Board has now taken the problem on board after an official survey revealed that many tourists will not be coming back because of the hassle and has started an advertising campaign to improve matters.
Posted by liz007 (Member # 11424) on :
Thanks for your posts- the replies to Automatic (who I thought was very rude) were very informative and good advice I thought. Surely it is up to education and the egyptian government to teach the egyptians about business? I don't mind paying a bit of baksheesh here and there but 300LE for a cab that should have been 40LE was a bit much. These are the tourists who won't come back. On the egyptian TV soap, the characters are off to Sharm to 'make money off the tourists' so is there any wonder this mentality is rife? where is the advertising campaign tomake things better?
And as for me only posting a few times, My id had changed and I had to re-register, and also, everyone has to start somewhere on forums, and new posters may be put off if they read anti messages.
Posted by Automatic (Member # 7290) on :
quote:Originally posted by liz007: Thanks for your posts- the replies to Automatic (who I thought was very rude)
Of course I was rude, I'm Egyptian remember!!!!! And informative my ass, it was misleading at best.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
sorry Liz but the Egyptians dont need educating about business. There are enough expats there cheating other tourists at rediculous prices and of course they are believed because its 'one of my own countrymen' Most i got ripped off and had over by was 'one of my own countrywomen' so im ok putting trust in the Egyptians. At least they might NEED the extra money they ask for a taxi ride, those expats conning you dont.
Posted by needsomeone (Member # 9046) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: sorry Liz but the Egyptians dont need educating about business. There are enough expats there cheating other tourists at rediculous prices and of course they are believed because its 'one of my own countrymen' Most i got ripped off and had over by was 'one of my own countrywomen' so im ok putting trust in the Egyptians. At least they might NEED the extra money they ask for a taxi ride, those expats conning you dont.
Well said Ayisha !!! those fat brits should be stoped dear Posted by needsomeone (Member # 9046) on :
Here's the missing P to keep the headteacher happy LOL Posted by samakwish (Member # 9228) on :
Oh no! Not the tourists robbing each other and not being robbed by Egyptians? Has the world gone mad?
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
it has Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
Hello everyone,
I wonder...why can't tourists be a bit nicer to the Egyptians? Why don't tourists try to learn a bit more about local culture? Why don't more tourists point out that it isn't acceptable for Egyptians to cry out 'Lucky man', while leering at their wives? Why don't more western women reject firmly, such blatantly disrespectful approaches? Why don't tourists politely point out that they fake smiling at 'Luverly Jubberly' and 'Asda Price', quoted for the hundredth time, that hour...and that such silly catchphrases inspire the urge to smash every perfume bottle in sight to smithereens?
It's all about balance. Why don't Egyptians tell tourists that their silly assumptions about Egyptian life inspire quiet rage? Why don't Egyptians point out that they are perfectly capable of running their own country, without know-it-all western input? Why don't Egyptians tell tourists that shouting in pidgeon English doesn't improve attempts to communicate? Why do Egyptians charge so little, for entry into some of the greatest tombs and temples of the world?
Hell if I know!
Posted by Luxorlover (Member # 4457) on :
quote:Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee: Hello everyone,
I wonder...why can't tourists be a bit nicer to the Egyptians? Why don't tourists try to learn a bit more about local culture? Why don't more tourists point out that it isn't acceptable for Egyptians to cry out 'Lucky man', while leering at their wives? Why don't more western women reject firmly, such blatantly disrespectful approaches? Why don't tourists politely point out that they fake smiling at 'Luverly Jubberly' and 'Asda Price', quoted for the hundredth time, that hour...and that such silly catchphrases inspire the urge to smash every perfume bottle in sight to smithereens?
It's all about balance. Why don't Egyptians tell tourists that their silly assumptions about Egyptian life inspire quiet rage? Why don't Egyptians point out that they are perfectly capable of running their own country, without know-it-all western input? Why don't Egyptians tell tourists that shouting in pidgeon English doesn't improve attempts to communicate? Why do Egyptians charge so little, for entry into some of the greatest tombs and temples of the world?
Hell if I know!
Very valid points.
Posted by Labibah (Member # 9742) on :
I just changed it all upside down... I went onto a shop, ask for some tea, and spoke just a bit arabic, and in one second they never aske me for money, i got local prices and i was a friend and no problem.
when you are tourist and have holiday, you still have to use the brain and be streetsmart. Especially in Egypt. Egypt has many poor people, they work too much for to litle money. Just think about it. It is their way of surviveing!
I dont know any place in the world who has nicer people than Egypt! And I have been all over the world.
Posted by charm el feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
here here..
i feel the same. yes they tried to fleece me.. and? so what?! i soon put them straight that i came here with my kids to enjoy the sunshine and the culture and to make new friends, and they soon treated me like a friend. i paid local prices in shops and in taxis. i didnt even pay for any of the kids entertainment etc.. they just treated my kids like one of their own. i was taken out and i paid 50/50. one night i didnt pay a penny... all on the guys who had looked after my kids all day...i did treat one man to a night out that cost me about £15 (for me, him and my 4 kids) WOW!!!!!!! i earn that in a quarter of an hour! and when i left to come home, they had gone to the old market and got hats for the kids and small gifts for me... i still keep in touch with them now and im gutted cause i should be there right now.
egyptians, the ones i know anyway, are the salt of the earth.
the only people i can compare them to are the scots. egypt is like scotland with sunshine!
Posted by r.i.p.R (Member # 11270) on :
really i wish i cud say that for my husband being the salt of the earth hes the PIT OF THE EARTH LYING FRIGGEN SCUM BAG SINAI CRAP HEAD AND **** HEAD ,BEDWOIUN RADICAL THINKER ,ANY ONE SHARE TO NAME HIM FOR ME ,,,,IM GONNA MAKE HIS LIFE FRIGGEN HELL WHY YOU THINK ME HERE ..HE UP THERE ME DOWN HERE AND HE CHEATED WITH A SCOTS UHM THEY R MAKE A GOOD SEAPIT SALT WUDNT YAH THINK ....NO OFFENCE TO CHARM .LIKE U SUMONES RATTLED MY CAGE !!!!!!!!
Posted by charm el feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
oh sorry chimps... i forgot about that.. no offence meant sweetheart.
hows that working out for you by the way? is he still living with you?
god i feel for you.. i remember when you first joined this forum, you were head over heals in love... such a shame.
hey... im well in the mood for some violence... want me to hurt him?!
nite hun... im off to bed too (for the 2nd time)! god, i cant sleep without him.
Posted by r.i.p.R (Member # 11270) on :
thats the problem charm ''i am in love with him ,but i hurt and it will be some time im ever forgive ,i have to this time to make my marriage work but really im not got faithim muslim men my husband first one did it too witha 17yr old and let my daughter see and walk in on him ,CNT!!!and he had a nasty hand ,sumone said to me u wasin the army why cudnt u have hit back its different i cant explain ...
Posted by pubestone (Member # 11655) on :
I think the actual plot have been lost here, this is only merely an individual perception (Automatic) who obviously has an inferiority complex, hates tourists or anyone who has an ounce of sucess or cash. Not the views of all Egyptians that i know, who i class as friends. As for rape, is there something wrong with you? That is disgusting, you deserve the very worst in life and i wish you all the bad luck in the world. Back to the original topic, just say to shopkeepers La Shokrun and walk away, worked for me. When i go back though, i will avoid the shops like the plague (all sell the same tat)and spend my cash on spoiling my Egyptian friends. As for people like Automatic, f'il mishmish.
Posted by Mer (Member # 11678) on :
HI, I am egyptian, and this happened also to me when in a touristic places, just try to keep a distance, and don't make ur hand fast to ur pocket, but remember these shops are waiting for you to make some money to keep the life cycle. Don't be too tight, little extra money will not harm
Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
If anyone is wondering about investment laws in Egypt, this is a small portion:
Man am I finding some good stuff tonight.
Posted by bird (Member # 8784) on :
liz007 I have been to Egypt, but you are wrong. You should not stereotype yes some people can be a bit annoying when they ask you over and over but just say no thanks in a polite way. If you start to be nasty they will be offended. Remember you went to Egypt no one invited you there and just to let you know they all trying to make a living. They are not fortunate like some of the Americans and English who can just sit at home and not do anything but be lazy and get money (assistance) from the government.
Oh you said “Why can’t they just leave us alone to enjoy our holiday? We work hard, and when we’re away on our break." I am so sure you have to depend on the people anyway and I am dead sure you cannot even speak the dammm language. The English are not the only ones who work hard. So when you want a break go to Wales, France, Spain, Ireland etc, why go to Egypt if all you can say are negative things about the people. The Egyptians are amazing people they very warm. Sorry you had a bad experience.
Posted by volt3aly (Member # 9112) on :
all what i want to say to you Liz now you never saw Egypt in the right way you never lernt some thing new you never thought about seeing the real face of Egypt all what the others said have some sides right some wrong too but why you thought about Egypt ? i'm so sure you asked some one before you even think to book your ticket i'm Egyptian but i'm not showing off at all ask some one around you did they enjoy them time here ? i think you are hard a bit my dear lady if you saw Egypt so bad like that !! tell every one around you don't go to Egypt then we will see if it'd effect on Egypt or not ? we are a country depend on torism that what i can tell at least now use your mind and look from another side take care sorry if you found me so ampolite with you bye
Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
This is from a book I have been reading lately:
"Bedouin, Settlers, and Holiday - Makers: Egypt's Changing Northwest Coast" by Donald P. Cole and Soraya Altorki
Chapter 3 "The Bedouin and Outside Forces, 1798 to 1940s" pg 85
Many of the decisions were not popular, especially thoses that resulted in arresting people and putting them in jail. Those who implemented such decisions were very unpopular, but the old men who recall such events today recognize that those who should be blamed are the British governors who made the decisions and not the Egyptian officials who were forced to implement them. A senior Awlad 'Ali 'aqila described the systems as follows:
The military administration was severe, but it also had some good points. There was injustice. Back then, if you had a disagreement with the ma'mur, you would go to speak to the governor. The ma'mur would speak to the governor by phone and tell him that you are a troublemaker, dirty, wrong. The governor would have you put in jail and you would stay there for three, four months a year, without a trial. You were under the control of the English governor. He had the rank of amiralai. He could let you go or keep you in jail. But you can say [the administration] was good because there was the maintenance of law and order.
There were many English people here, and the Arabs stole from them. And it was not bad to steal from them. The Arabs here stole from the English army, took whatever they wanted. We hate the English. And the person who steals from him is not a thief. In fact, we tell them "thank you." The English were the enemy. But this was also bad because the practice of stealing was instilled in the youth.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This might explain why so many in the Red Sea Resort are don't see marking up prices for the English as a crime, or by adding in extra fees. Alot of the service people in tourism are connected with the Bedouin and take up alot of their attitudes in regards to the English.
Not saying this is a good thing, but it doesn't help when English tourists carry on as if they are still colonial occupiers, not just vacationers.
I know of alot of English who still consider the US a colony and they don't recognize US independance in a social sense. These people look down upon Americans as dogs and savages, the "colonized"; worse yet that the US chose to militarly expell the British, not the British chosing to grant independance which I haven't seen one clear example of British granting independance to any of their former colonial subsjects.
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