quote:

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Originally posted by ' Sharon Stone ':
I think they get too excited and they forget about rules and regulations.

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No I don't think it was excitement. The Egyptians seem to be the least excited out of all Museum attendants. Just a lack of security cameras. And security officers taking the rules themselves seriously.

It really pissed me off.

I actually barked at a young dude asked him if he could focking read the signs posted every 20 feet. He continued to fondle a statue and then just beamed at me and gazed his eyes over my physique. then I felt like killing him. Luckily my SIL was there and pulled me into another exhibit before I hauled off on the little rodent.

Rules are rules.
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
Touching 'holy' objects is still in their culture, in their daily life. As if you get something from touching like 'baraka'. Not touching would be not getting in contact in a meaningfull way. No need to discredit people for it. Touching gives you valuable information, like the qualities of fruits and vegetables that are less standard in Egypt than they are in the west.
 

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Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 
But the signs say "don't touch". And I don't think many Muslims find pharonic or even Roman artifacts and statutes "holy".

I can understand a bunch of old funny duddies from the UK finding pharonic artifacts "holy" but not everyday Egyptians.

Again I found the Americans far more respectful of exhibits, like how the Americans behaved at the Cheops or Khufu (I can't remember which) Pyramid. Americans made sure they didn't wear camisoles or tank tops, very few wore shorts. While the Europeans of any age were dressed like on a Carribean vacation. Walking down into the pyramid I noticed Americans were quiet and respected the space of others. While Europeans laughed (taking up valuable oxygen) and made jokes, also some pretty darn skinny europeans know how to take up more than half of the walkway's space and that is one narrow walkway to begin with. Americans sat in the chamber longer and reflected. Europeans basically just turned around and went out again. I didn't see one single Egyptian besides my SIL, her employee who went with us and our driver actually make it into the chamber room, all the other Egyptians turned around in the walk way.

At the Solar Boat Museum I noticed Americans didn't walk in front of others when they were taking photos (same with the Asians, very polite). Again the Asians pointed and chattered and reflected on the significance of the exhibits. Europeans horsed around and didn't pay attention to the exhibits.

You don't have to touch things to get meaningful information. You can do your research on the objects before actually coming to the Museum or you can actually listen to the guide you hired instead of carrying on several simultaneous conversations instead of listening to his well rehearsed and researched information.

Touch isn't the only sense a person has.
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
I am glad you can be proud of your fellow Americans visiting Egypt Sono. Isn't cultural comparison a fun thing to do?
I remember when in the Dutch Guyana's I was appouled how people would push each other around the door of the bus, or make the bus stop before the agreed stoppingplace. Never lining up or being carefull to each other. How I was used to enter public transport. Then I moved to a different part of Amsterdam where I would have to use the metro. All sorts of people would push themselves in in fear of the doors getting closed before that!:-)
And all those commercials on the tele. Whenever the news would start you first had to look at endless displays of the goods of local shops. Not where I came from! We had commercialfree, and therefore valuefree news! The minute I came back not even the commercial televisionstations started but also the commercials on the public tele broadened their appearence!:-)
And I am sure in the US as in Europe you have different people that are more or less cultured or only use this sites as the next adventurepark they are used to visit.
 

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Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 

 

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Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 
Well I think the difference lies in the fact that airfare to Egypt is far more expensive for americans than it is for Europeans.

If you saw how Americans behave in the Carribean or in the Mexican Riveria you'd be taken a back. Very socially mal-adjusted behavior then they are proud of their mis-adventures when they come back home.

but since vacationing in Egypt outside of the Red Sea Resort area is an act of defiance against the current administration those Americans I saw were more enlightened.

I couldn't believe the amount of elderly Americans making the trips to see the sights in Cairo compared to the amount of young Europeans visiting the same spots. The age difference could've been a factor.
 

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Posted by Demiana (Member # 2710) on :
 
You must be right Sono. It takes some bravery for an American to come visit Egypt these days next to the costs.
 

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Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 
I like Americans, but attempting to portray them as perfect tourists, compared to Egyptians and Europeans just doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included. Generalisations about people rarely stand up to close scrutiny. Americans are no worse or better than other tourists. Good manners are not defined by race of gender.
 

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Posted by Charm el Feikh? (Member # 10243) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Well I think the difference lies in the fact that airfare to Egypt is far more expensive for americans than it is for Europeans.

If you saw how Americans behave in the Carribean or in the Mexican Riveria you'd be taken a back. Very socially mal-adjusted behavior then they are proud of their mis-adventures when they come back home.

but since vacationing in Egypt outside of the Red Sea Resort area is an act of defiance against the current administration those Americans I saw were more enlightened.

I couldn't believe the amount of elderly Americans making the trips to see the sights in Cairo compared to the amount of young Europeans visiting the same spots. The age difference could've been a factor.

---

good to have you back sono, hope you had a great time.

ive never thought of it this way before. i think youve hit the nail on the head here. its not really the holiday maker, but the holiday. mexico to me was a long haul expensive destination, and i went there to trek through the jungle to chitchen itza on the day of the equinox, a very spiritual occasion.. to the americans it was a cheap beach holiday.

also, when i was in egypt, i took the kids to see giza but not luxor or petra. my reasoning was it would be not much more expensive to visit those places for a week on a future holiday.

obvious when you think about it. guess thats why i avoid benidorm!
 

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Posted by cHiMpSs (Member # 11270) on :
 
i like it when you go there and you have to hand your camera in .but you go in with your mobile camrea fone and walk around doing sneaky video ,,
 

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Posted by Snoozer (Member # 6244) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
but since vacationing in Egypt outside of the Red Sea Resort area is an act of defiance against the current administration those Americans I saw were more enlightened.

---

I didn't see *any* Americans the couple of times I've been. Maybe I'm going at the wrong time of year. But yeah, it's a heck of a trip for an American to make, time-wise and money-wise.
 

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Posted by Madame M. (Member # 8386) on :
 
I beg to differ about the "cheap" deals. My airfare to Alex in July cost over $1600..not exactly a cheap deal.

I gotta agree with Sono about the atire difference between the Euros and Americans (also Canadians and Asians). In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
I like Americans, but attempting to portray them as perfect tourists, compared to Egyptians and Europeans just doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included. Generalisations about people rarely stand up to close scrutiny. Americans are no worse or better than other tourists. Good manners are not defined by race of gender.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Madame M.:
In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Madame M.:
I beg to differ about the "cheap" deals. My airfare to Alex in July cost over $1600..not exactly a cheap deal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Madame,

I assume the $1600 was for a scheduled flight. I know of Americans securing complete packages, for not much more than that, inlcuding a Nile cruise. Americans travel to Egypt in much smaller numbers than Europeans. They are the most cautious of travellers, especially to the middle east. Perhaps the sheer number of Europeans makes it easier to attribute inappropriate behaviour. In Egypt, it is often hard to spot any Americans, so they are hardly a representative sample.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Snoozer:

quote:

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Originally posted by Madame M.:
In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

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I agree with that....the European tourists I saw at Giza, Egyptian Museum, Citadel, around the Nile, etc., were all wearing tiny halter tops and short-shorts. And some men with above-the-knee shorts. (that's just wrong anywhere).

I wouldn't think twice about that attire here at home, but it was really weird to see women wearing that in Cairo, after everything the tourguide books say about dressing at least somewhat modestly. (But again, I never saw Americans, so who knows what they might have been wearing).

---

I only saw a handful of Americans.

One was a woman from Mossouri and her "Alexandrian" fiancee.

She was very open about the way they met and the age difference and the language barrier and so forth.

It was at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina. I knew right away what kind of relationship it was. The two barely spoke to each other. Naturally my mother wanted to bond (especially since she herself is in a sugar-mama relationship) and started traded schedules for the week so she could buddy up. Basically the Alexandrian fiancee looked like a mentally delayed worwolf.

I tried to pull my in-laws away from the happy threesome and explain the man was a dirtbag and his American fiance was a ugly fat passport to him. Mother straight out told me I was rude. So what.

We kept on bumping into the couple in the library and finally my mother got the picture that there was something teribly wrong with the guy and he had scared her.

After that point mother finally started to understand that I had a better grasp on the situation than she did. And I didn't hear anything about Steven for the rest of the vacation until the day before we left. Which is a record for her, she talks about Steven at least 5 times in one conversation. Any opinion, decision, experience is pepper with this imbecile, so her being quiet about the guy for 8 days was a major mercy.
 

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Posted by AshkiA (Member # 10944) on :
 
I was shocked at some of the clothing I saw when I was at Al Houssein Sq. Don't know where they were from but one of them was wearing a white halter dress wayyyyy above the knees that was see though with thong undies. And *I* was worried about wearing short sleeves LOL.
~oh and as far as the don't touch signs, do people realize it's for the preservation of the artifacts/art???? Do they post signs stateing this as well???
 

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Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case. [/QB]

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quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case.

---

You would be better advised to look at Egyptian companies marketing to the American market. There is no shortage of cheap packages. Friends of mine work in the tourist industry, I have seen exactly what is offered. Here is an example of a simple internet search:
MISR Travel.
''“7 day/6 night Budget Cruncher from US$ 1399.00 . Short of time?Low on funds? Take a deep breath and tackle Cairo AND A NILE CRUISE in the space of 7 action packed days. Enjoy 2 nights at the Movenpick Pyramids Hotel, 3 nights on the Movenpick managed HS Radamis I or II Nile Cruise or the Oberoi HS Sheherezade or Shahrayar and 1 night at the Movenpick Hotel, Heliopolis, local flights, transfers, a full day guided tour of Cairo AND, of course, your flights from and back to JFK on Egytpair’s non stop service. Departures Wednesdays and Thursdays only.

Departures Sept 27 - Dec 7, 2006:
US$ 1399.00 per person (double occupancy) Single Supplement US$ 300.00

For travel July 15 -31, please add US$ 450.00 per person, for travel Aug 1-15, add US$ 300.00 per person and for travel Aug 16 - Sept 26, add US$ 50.00 per person''


No need to rest my case, as this is a chat forum, not a court of law! [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by zeina20:
Hi there
i agree with you that don't touch means don't touch and even that it is written all over the place, but still the first thing i say when i have the museum tour that most of the staff is at least 2000 years old so you can't touch it even if there is no glass case but sometimes ppl get really exicted so they touch the stutue to feel it and that's why they are not the only one to blame, the way we disply our artifacts is not right and the ppl who should be watching they don't really care or have the awarrness of it's value , once i was there in the garden i gave my clients free time after we finished the tour and as u know there is a lake in the middle of the garden and it has some sphinex statues around the croners , a russina girl came with a bare body clothes jumbed on the statue and the police man was happy and was enjoying the show , and every body was just staring at her with saying no thing, really it drove me crazy and i told her that isn't allowed and she can't do that, but she pretended that she can't understand till she had her picture taken !!!!!!!!....... really i feel pitty about us The Egyptian ( i mean i can't blam the police man coz where he comes from would never allow him to see such a scene of girl but i would blame the screw up system . about the American you are right about them since i'm working in tourism almost 9 years now i can say that American ppl always rescpect the dress code and i can tell that when i get an email about the dress code in Egypt i can tell that the sender is American , Honsetly when i do city tour ( citidal , old Cairo and Khan Elkhlily ) i always ask my clients to be little conservtive at least no sleavless and most of them don't mind that . but other eastern Eur. that they come to Cairo only for over day from sharm or hurgada they look so strange in high heels and very little clothes around the pyramids but once again it's not only thier mistake it's the travel agancy rep. who should tell them about the dress code is Cairo and how different is it from the resorts ? on the other hand i think it's matter of attuide and commen sense but it's a part of some ppl culture and commen sense

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quote:

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Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
[
Besides most travelers from the USA are actually Egyptians going home for FOTs (Family Obligated Trips) and not for leisure. [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
The fundemental flaw in Albino's argument is that most Americans travelling to Egypt, are actually EGYPTIAN . That would certainly explain why their behaviour is more circumspect(In Albino's view), if it is fact:

quote:

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Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
[
Besides most travelers from the USA are actually Egyptians going home for FOTs (Family Obligated Trips) and not for leisure.

---

The Americans I have encountered in Egypt are few and far between, motly from CA...or older groups. This is hardly a scientific sample. I have met Americans who have dressed in the skimpiest of shorts...and tightest of jeans. Europeans too. Rather than be so quick to judge, wouldn't it be beter if more attempts to educate tourists, was made, prior to travel? [/QB]

---

I don't think my argument is flawed at all. only a few million of Americans make the trip to Egypt each year which is a fraction of the visitors to Egypt.

Keeping in mind the vast magnitude of Egyptians in the USA. I am thinking there are a million at least and lots of American wives with children too. So many. Egyptians in the USA are more likely to have sound employment and fiances to pay for a trip back to Egypt to visit and more likely to have a clean criminal record to be able to make that trip in the first place.
 

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Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 
Albino, where do you get your statistics from? It's important to recognise tourism catagories. Your argument appeared to relate to American holidaymakers - then swiftly changed to American Egyptians.

Travel Daily news (August 3 2006) indicates a figure considerably lower than the millions you suggest:[/QB][/QUOTE]I don't think my argument is flawed at all. only a few million of Americans make the trip to Egypt each year which is a fraction of the visitors to Egypt.

[/QB][/QUOTE]


During the first six months of 2006, there were 118,044 American visits, surpassing last year’s total by 20.1% and the record-setting 2000 number of 114,468 by 3%. The record-setting performance was bolstered in June 2006 when there were 19,656 American visits, a 16.6% increase over the same period in 2005.

As you can see, American visits have increased but they remain a teeny fraction of the 8 million plus visitors every year.
 

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Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
I like Americans, but attempting to portray them as perfect tourists, compared to Egyptians and Europeans just doesn't stand up to closer scrutiny. Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included. Generalisations about people rarely stand up to close scrutiny. Americans are no worse or better than other tourists. Good manners are not defined by race of gender.

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<Also, Americans enjoy astonishingly cheap deals to Egypt, even with the airfare included.>

I would not say this.Although i`m from Puerto Rico,i have USA nationality.Here we are born with it,and i will be going to Egypt for the second time this next October,and believe me,it was not cheap at all.Let alone astonishingly cheap!
But then i`m visiting again because i liked it so much it was long overdue for me.
 

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Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
 
<In Egypt, it is often hard to spot any Americans>

You would never in a lifetime spot me as an American in Egypt....i simply don`t look like one...heheeheheh!
 

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Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino, where do you get your statistics from? It's important to recognise tourism catagories. Your argument appeared to relate to American holidaymakers - then swiftly changed to American Egyptians.

Travel Daily news (August 3 2006) indicates a figure considerably lower than the millions you suggest:

---

I don't think my argument is flawed at all. only a few million of Americans make the trip to Egypt each year which is a fraction of the visitors to Egypt.

[/QB][/QUOTE]


During the first six months of 2006, there were 118,044 American visits, surpassing last year’s total by 20.1% and the record-setting 2000 number of 114,468 by 3%. The record-setting performance was bolstered in June 2006 when there were 19,656 American visits, a 16.6% increase over the same period in 2005.

As you can see, American visits have increased but they remain a teeny fraction of the 8 million plus visitors every year. [/QB][/QUOTE]


Sorry I meant millions of Egyptians or Americans with Egyptians ethnicity (if not nationality).

I haven't ate a solid meal in 5 days due to a partial wisdom tooth extraction (and it will take a month before I am back to normal) so I am weak, obviously it is affecting my communication skills.

Not millions of American tourists, but millions of Egyptian Americans and Americans with Egyptian family ties that are not being targeted by the Egyptian tourism authority. The Egyptian tourism authority would rather target young and old Europeans with 6 weeks of vacation every year.

God knows Egyptians pump millions if not billions of dollars in remittances back into Egypt from the west. So screw what they will spend on a vacation.
 

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Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 
Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.
 

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Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Its hard pressed to find a European travel agency that will sell a package to an American.

I saw only one packaged tour group and they were a bunch of Mormons.

I rest my case.

---

You would be better advised to look at Egyptian companies marketing to the American market. There is no shortage of cheap packages. Friends of mine work in the tourist industry, I have seen exactly what is offered. Here is an example of a simple internet search:
MISR Travel.
''“7 day/6 night Budget Cruncher from US$ 1399.00 . Short of time?Low on funds? Take a deep breath and tackle Cairo AND A NILE CRUISE in the space of 7 action packed days. Enjoy 2 nights at the Movenpick Pyramids Hotel, 3 nights on the Movenpick managed HS Radamis I or II Nile Cruise or the Oberoi HS Sheherezade or Shahrayar and 1 night at the Movenpick Hotel, Heliopolis, local flights, transfers, a full day guided tour of Cairo AND, of course, your flights from and back to JFK on Egytpair’s non stop service. Departures Wednesdays and Thursdays only.

Departures Sept 27 - Dec 7, 2006:
US$ 1399.00 per person (double occupancy) Single Supplement US$ 300.00

For travel July 15 -31, please add US$ 450.00 per person, for travel Aug 1-15, add US$ 300.00 per person and for travel Aug 16 - Sept 26, add US$ 50.00 per person''


No need to rest my case, as this is a chat forum, not a court of law! [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.

---

No our quality of life is mostly privately paid for, Europeans have loads of basics paid for by the government while we pay for basics out of pocket.

Our lifestyle is more expensive. That democracy for you, socialism is cheaper and better quality in the long run......

Anyway you look at it vacationing in Egypt is still more expensive for Americans than for Europeans. Same with the Australians. I have heard its common for Australians to take a "leap year" between high school and college to travel cheaply. Just leaving the country on a flight is staggering, so doing as much travel at once instead of staggered out over a lifetime is much more sensible. Americans can't often take this leap year because reputable colleges frown upon it, so forgo extensive travel and get into the dorm at age 18 or else.

the wisdom tooth isn't out. he found that the impacted wisdom tooth has an extra long root which is curled in my jaw bone. he pulled up just enough to crush the tooth in half and make it easier for the next dentist to pull it. At least now the wisdom while impacted won't push on the entire lower left side of my jaw and cause excruciating discomfort. I was told by american dentists that I had to have my wisdome tooth surgically removed and at the same time it would be wise to break the entire mandible and have it straightened out. Been told this by dentists and orthodontists since I was 12 years old. Its not covered by insurance and its about $6000-$8000 USD to get done. Which is down from $14,000 USD quoted when I was 12 years old. My jaw is crooked, and having lower wisdome teeth pushing on the entire lower teeth is causing alot of tension and headaches from TMJ.

I don't know what is going to happen, but the Denist said it would take 5-7 days for the gums to heal up. Its been 7 days and its only halfway healed. Now he's telling my husband (a safe distance from me of 6,000 miles he can fully vouch) that nerve damage will (and has) affected my speech some which will take an entire month to recover. My jaw is locked and will only open so far so I can't eat many solid foods. So its a liquid diet and people joking with me about my temporary lisp.

I have dropped about 15 lbs and a entire jean size. I am forcing myself to eat and following all of the dentists orders, pain killers, medicated mouthwashes and antibiotics.

Don't forget that is the normal course of treatment that American HMOs will pay for, not the jaw surgery.

Sooner or later I will have to have the jaw surgery. Working overseas in either the Arab Gulf or Cairo I am hoping for international HMO which will probably cover the jaw surgery to straighten the jaw and remove the two impacted "curved" wisdom teeth of the law jaw. Its the only way I can afford to have it done before the age of 40 and it was suggested at age 12!

Its bothered me my whole life and this is a temporary fix.

I am grateful to the dentist for trying. 3 injections of novacaine and 3 hours of trying to pull the bastard tooth out, in addition to me passing out twice the guy deserves a medal.

Sorry for rambling, but it hurts.
 

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Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino: ''It doesn't really add up equally. It still costs Americans more.'' No it doesn't! Comparitively, Americans can get some great deals. The flights cost more, simply based on air miles travelled...they are not proportionally more. Europeans, on similar packages to the above (WITH SHORTER FLIGHTS), would pay the same or more.

Taking the flight differences into account, i.e. Americans get a long haul flight, Brits a short one - the America deal is better.Your air fare calculations are way out too, as you haven't even included internal flights, in your DIY package. Comparing like with like would enhance your point. Making up your own figures sure doesn't!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino, costing more isn't the same as being more expensive...perhaps that's where we disagree. It should cost Americans more, simply as flights are longer - just as it would cost more to drive Luxor to Cairo than say Alexandria to Cairo. THe cost is relative to the journey.

Despite this, as illustrated above, there are deals out there, for Nile cruise/Cairo packages, comparable in price to identical European ones. I learned this from Egyptian friends who were surprised how little Americans could 'do' Egypt for.

On a different note, your tooth does sound painful. I imagine sleep is difficult, for you right now. I hope the meds help.

---

I slept for two days straight when I got home. Now off the antibiotics I can't get to sleep as easily. Nevermind the fact that I have drunken neighbors hanging out in the streets at 4am. they are white so they can get away with anything, if they were not white the police would be her cuffing them by now.

So the air fare is relative, which is why Americans do the Mexican Riveria instead. Don't bother calling us cheap.

And these package deals are out there, but many of americans are allowed to buy these "packages" through their employees and pay in increments until the vacation date. Because "basics" like my tooth aren't covered by the government and HMOs vacations are a rarity.

And I am hedging my bets that most of the "Americans" traveling to Egypt are of Egyptian heritage with family in Egypt and thus don't need a freaking package, they need to see 300 people in 12 days before they come home.

And alot of American travel agencies don't offer these "nile cruises" packages. They'd have to go straight to the actual cruise operators. Americans get told all the time to book their travel plans through a reputable local travel agency because a local travel agency would have to anwser to the community if you get stiffed. If an American had trouble with an European travel agent, it would be the travel agent's trophy for the year. "Look everyone, I made a nightmare vacation for an American! Fight the GOOOD Fight! Those nasty Americans! They deserved it for not pressuring the US State Department to be "good little Europeans". This has happened so often that Americans aren't willing to book package tours with European travel agents because there are so many horror stories.

We don't trust European travel agents. I can't tell you how many college kids get stiffed when buying Euro-rail passes in Europe that are bogus and end up lossing hundreds of dollars and end up going home after a few days instead of staying 45 days in Europe as planned. You buy Euro-Rail passes from Carlson and Hobbit Travel because they won't screw you over.

But planning a trip to see family in Egypt is fail proof, you'll end up sick, fighting with dispondant relatives and you'll get screwed anyway. Its better to get screwed by a nation of people you are part of.
 

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Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 
Albino,

You started this thread by referring to American tourists, in general. You then switched to detailing Egyptian/American tourists, now you are specifying one type of visitor only. Your argument excludes the many Americans (the majority) visiting purely for a vacation, without Egyptian connections. It sounds to me that you are applying your own circumstances to the entire American travel market.

I don't need to be American, to know what deals are on offer. Lots of tourists pay too much for holiday deals. The internet allows global access to travel operators. Despite the fact that long haul deals should cost more for Americans, there are deals out there that equal packages offered to Europeans.

Just for you, the following MISR Travel deal,(looked up in seconds which specifically targets Americans and excludes the dreaded boat cruise:

8 days / 7 night Extraordinary Egypt: Enjoy the trip of a lifetime with this unique offer from MISR TRAVEL and EGYPTAIR. Spend 6 nights at the historic Mena House Hotel, a 10 minute walk from the Pyramids and Sphinx, or enjoying the spectacular view of the Nile from the downtown Ramses Hilton Hotel. A half day tour to the Pyramids and Sphinx and a half day tour to the Egyptian Museum and the Khan el Khalili Bazaar is included



Departures every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. Sept 1- Dec 9, 2006
Sept 1 – Oct 31, 2006: US$ 1249.00 per person (double occupancy)

A week in one of Cairo's most historic hotels, flights from America...even a few tours thrown in....from $1249. Comparable to similar European deals, for Cairo, with a LONG HAUL scheduled flight included.

This is exactly the kind of package that appeals to typical American tourists. Egyptian Americans visiting family would of course have different requirements. My points relate to your opening statement.
 

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Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino,

You started this thread by referring to American tourists, in general. You then switched to detailing Egyptian/American tourists, now you are specifying one type of visitor only. Your argument excludes the many Americans (the majority) visiting purely for a vacation, without Egyptian connections. It sounds to me that you are applying your own circumstances to the entire American travel market.

I don't need to be American, to know what deals are on offer. Lots of tourists pay too much for holiday deals. The internet allows global access to travel operators. Despite the fact that long haul deals should cost more for Americans, there are deals out there that equal packages offered to Europeans.

Just for you, the following MISR Travel deal,(looked up in seconds which specifically targets Americans and excludes the dreaded boat cruise:

8 days / 7 night Extraordinary Egypt: Enjoy the trip of a lifetime with this unique offer from MISR TRAVEL and EGYPTAIR. Spend 6 nights at the historic Mena House Hotel, a 10 minute walk from the Pyramids and Sphinx, or enjoying the spectacular view of the Nile from the downtown Ramses Hilton Hotel. A half day tour to the Pyramids and Sphinx and a half day tour to the Egyptian Museum and the Khan el Khalili Bazaar is included



Departures every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. Sept 1- Dec 9, 2006
Sept 1 – Oct 31, 2006: US$ 1249.00 per person (double occupancy)

A week in one of Cairo's most historic hotels, flights from America...even a few tours thrown in....from $1249. Comparable to similar European deals, for Cairo, with a LONG HAUL scheduled flight included.

This is exactly the kind of package that appeals to typical American tourists. Egyptian Americans visiting family would of course have different requirements. My points relate to your opening statement.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino,

Jumping to ridiculous assumptions seems remarkably easy for you. Your laughable assertion that I am trying to sell something illustrates this...as does your claim to speak for all American travellers. You don't. You speak only for yourself.

Clearly, you are unable to see beyond your individual needs, as you apply your personal circumstances to a general debate. I mentioned the Nile cruise to illustrate only that there are good value packages out there for American tourists. Never have I suggested that this is the only holiday option available.

People are free to buy their tours/flights from anyone they please. If you choose not to shop around and trust only American agents, don't whine when you get a bad deal.

Your fixation with Mormons, is as inexplicable as the incoherent direction of your responses.

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. Learn the difference.

---

OUCH!!!
bet that hurt more than the tooth!! yikes.............
 

---

Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:


I'll probably be remarried and 4 months knocked up when that trip takes place.

---

I pity the guy already now who will fall into your trap! Are you going to give up your next child too? You'd better get fixed!
 

---

Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.

---

Ohh,sure.Of course if i speak everybody will know ì`m a foreigner,but exactly American,i seriously doubt it.On the first place,my native language is Spanish,not English,so i have certain accent.I also try to dress sort of modestly.Not that i will wear veil or djeelaba/caftan,but in a western loose fitting clothes.
But anyway,i am from the Caribbean,so no American pale,nor black either.Heyy,black is a race,i have no problem with it,just in case!

I`m more in the Caribbean side of brown skinned,heheheehh!
 

---

Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 
Funny replies, Jamsie Cottar and Tigerlily. Welcome too, as this thread was becoming a little serious! Sashy, yes, Americans are not all middle class white men, in tartan golf slacks!
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
nice to have you around SWYS...........

Tiger.....how can I get her fixed?
think of the beautiful kittens, pure black and pure grey with smartie tube legs and tin foil doily hats!!!
wanna adopt one when they come?

seriously I need to think of that quick coz he is sniffing and strutting around..............egyptian gigolo !!!!......LOL
 

---

Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:

Tiger.....how can I get her fixed?

---

About who are you talking now? Sonomod or your little kitten?
 

---

Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
But the signs say "don't touch". And I don't think many Muslims find pharonic or even Roman artifacts and statutes "holy".

I can understand a bunch of old funny duddies from the UK finding pharonic artifacts "holy" but not everyday Egyptians.

Again I found the Americans far more respectful of exhibits, like how the Americans behaved at the Cheops or Khufu (I can't remember which) Pyramid. Americans made sure they didn't wear camisoles or tank tops, very few wore shorts. While the Europeans of any age were dressed like on a Carribean vacation. Walking down into the pyramid I noticed Americans were quiet and respected the space of others. While Europeans laughed (taking up valuable oxygen) and made jokes, also some pretty darn skinny europeans know how to take up more than half of the walkway's space and that is one narrow walkway to begin with. Americans sat in the chamber longer and reflected. Europeans basically just turned around and went out again. I didn't see one single Egyptian besides my SIL, her employee who went with us and our driver actually make it into the chamber room, all the other Egyptians turned around in the walk way.

At the Solar Boat Museum I noticed Americans didn't walk in front of others when they were taking photos (same with the Asians, very polite). Again the Asians pointed and chattered and reflected on the significance of the exhibits. Europeans horsed around and didn't pay attention to the exhibits.

You don't have to touch things to get meaningful information. You can do your research on the objects before actually coming to the Museum or you can actually listen to the guide you hired instead of carrying on several simultaneous conversations instead of listening to his well rehearsed and researched information.

Touch isn't the only sense a person has.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sashyra88:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Sashyra, Americans can be spotted by their voices too! You don't think the deal I illustrated above is astonishingly cheap?

Albino, ouch, I too have had a wisdom tooth removed, it is painful. I hope you feel better soon.

---

Ohh,sure.Of course if i speak everybody will know ì`m a foreigner,but exactly American,i seriously doubt it.On the first place,my native language is Spanish,not English,so i have certain accent.I also try to dress sort of modestly.Not that i will wear veil or djeelaba/caftan,but in a western loose fitting clothes.
But anyway,i am from the Caribbean,so no American pale,nor black either.Heyy,black is a race,i have no problem with it,just in case!

I`m more in the Caribbean side of brown skinned,heheheehh!

---

Gotta Agree with Sashyra, I'm american but I am of mixed culture (latin and caucasian), not all of us look alike either. However, I have noticed since being in Egypt that very few know I am American, even Europeans ask where I'm from EXACTLY, so it's always so easy to tell. If you're Amerian I think it's easier to spot an American, and the same goes for British, we recognize each other more easily and especially in America you can tell the minute someone opens their mouths which part of the country they're from....I'm a Southern Belle personally
 

---

Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
 
While traveling in Spain and Morocco i`ve been asked (before hearing me talk,of course)if i`m Moroccan,so you can imagine.
 

---

Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
 
the locals here always think I'm Lebanese or Syrian before I speak ROFL
 

---

Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SayWhatYouSee:
Albino,

Jumping to ridiculous assumptions seems remarkably easy for you. Your laughable assertion that I am trying to sell something illustrates this...as does your claim to speak for all American travellers. You don't. You speak only for yourself.

Clearly, you are unable to see beyond your individual needs, as you apply your personal circumstances to a general debate. I mentioned the Nile cruise to illustrate only that there are good value packages out there for American tourists. Never have I suggested that this is the only holiday option available.

People are free to buy their tours/flights from anyone they please. If you choose not to shop around and trust only American agents, don't whine when you get a bad deal.

Your fixation with Mormons, is as inexplicable as the incoherent direction of your responses.

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. Learn the difference.

---

OUCH!!!
bet that hurt more than the tooth!! yikes.............

---

Ahh,

No it just comes to prove that Europeans just see Americans as dollar signs and won't respect you no matter how much money you spend.

I was a assistant to a professional in an investment firm who had to make business trips to Europe constantly. He hated Europe and how they treated him to no avail. He is an extremely nice guy who speaks 4 languages and has a degree in "European History" with an MBA, so I isn't just out of the sticks.

You can't trust these Europeans. Americans who havn't spent alot of time around Europeans look up to Europeans because that is where the heritage is from, so they assume its a homecoming and a natural bond between two white people. Obviously the family history hasn't been handed down to the current generation because white people left Europe for obvious reasons.

A family friend taught French in High School for many years and switched to teaching Spanish just a few years ago because of the torment of organizing those blasted "France Tours". Year over Year he had to deal directly with the French in their lanaguage (He knew Germans had the luxury of the French conversing in German to them) and watching no matter how hard he tried bus schedules, train schedules and hotel accomodations were always botched just to make a nightmare of coordination for the French Instruction. Alot of high schools are switching to Spanish, Chinese and Arabic courses and dropping French. I wouldn't doubt those class trips "French Tours" were being botched on purpose so often it has driven the interest off.

SeeWhatYouSee jumped on this thread in an effort to sell Americans something. Using my unpopularity with the ES addicted, the more vocal usernames, not the lurchers (and I wouldn't doubt the lurchers have more money to spend on Nile Cruises and don't have to do FOTs (Family Obligated Trips)). I tried to explain to her that she is beating a dead horse, but no avail. And I got the "Tigerweed" and "ExpatinCAI" type responses I needed to pepper the association with SeeWhatYouSee to prove my point about the European mindset.

Americans who havn't been overseas much will always look to any European as a trustworthy family archeotype, and association of heritage. These Americans don't carry on family history because there is nothing to be proud of and don't remember what Europe was really like. I am not easily pursuaded in this manner.
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
medication time?
 

---

Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:


You can't trust these Europeans.

---

Oh, Sonomod, you are just simply a bitter XENOPHOBE ! Hey I've learnt that word today on ES, you see this forum is enriching my English vocabulary!

Somehow your talking is amusing. I might book you for an evening for entertaining!

PS: If you see how Americans are buying overseas here, what kind of horrendous rents they are agreeing to pay etc. - of course others will take advantage of them. Once I talked to a military doctor and she told me how friendly the Germans are and she feels very welcomed. Well, I told her she's just buying an illusion, people in general are much reserved even sometimes rude even to each other so why would she think that they are friendly with the Americans. Just because they are paying any price and that's why people are friendly to her incl. her landlord. You should see how Germans stare at us if I walk with my husband in uniform through the big city even if they should be used to seing that since WWII is over and the Americans built up facilities everywhere in this area! Personally I believe the US troops have been too long in Germany (the Russian troops f.e. left my hometown within 12 month the wall came down), they should finally leave and close up too, the cold war is over long time ago, but that's not what America wants for strategic/logistic reasons and also many people making profits through existence of US troops and their families inside Germany; it's a give and take.
 

---

Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:
medication time?

---

You know what they say about Doctor's wifes.....

If you grew up in a neighborhood with doctors to know.
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
in english please sono
 

---

Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:
You should see how Germans stare at us if I walk with my husband in uniform through the big city even if they should be used to seing that since WWII is over and the Americans built up facilities everywhere in this area!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:
People, you need to understand how much the pyramids and the artifacts mean to Egyptians in general. Nothing! Entrance to the museum is cheap, most Egyptians come there to let some hours get by, watch tourists, they don't have the understanding or interest in historical things since the pharaonic times don't have anything to do with Islam. Pyramids and everyhing else are there for the tourists, basta, its a big money making business. It's simple as that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:
People, you need to understand how much the pyramids and the artifacts mean to Egyptians in general. Nothing! Entrance to the museum is cheap, most Egyptians come there to let some hours get by, watch tourists, they don't have the understanding or interest in historical things since the pharaonic times don't have anything to do with Islam. Pyramids and everyhing else are there for the tourists, basta, its a big money making business. It's simple as that.

---

Nothing is as simple as your way of thinking! Stop getting your info from your bawwab!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:
People, you need to understand how much the pyramids and the artifacts mean to Egyptians in general. Nothing! Entrance to the museum is cheap, most Egyptians come there to let some hours get by, watch tourists, they don't have the understanding or interest in historical things since the pharaonic times don't have anything to do with Islam. Pyramids and everyhing else are there for the tourists, basta, its a big money making business. It's simple as that.

---

Nothing is as simple as your way of thinking! Stop getting your info from your bawwab!

---

Don't underestimate your father's intelligence!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Alright when a sign at the "Egypt Museum" says don't touch the artifact, the artifact's case; and the sign is in English and Arabic why do Egyptians and tourists alike still need to touch the artifacts, cases and statues?

What in the hell is wrong with people?

Worse yet, why do parents encourage their son to pose next to a statue with his arm around the shoulders of the statue when clearly the whole Egyptian family is literate?

What the hell is wrong with people?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon:
Well when you are not taught any manners or discipline as a child then you grow up that way as well. Egyptian children are not disciplined at all. They scream, fight, throw things at each other, say the nastiest words possible, shove and push and simply put it is their parents fault for not teaching them the proper manners they needed. I have seen grown adult men and women make fun of a down syndrome child at a wedding party. Not one or two but a group of them. Of course along with a dozen children. What did they think he was a clown or something?
Didn't someone teach them to behave and be respectful of other people even with disabilities? No.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Alright when a sign at the "Egypt Museum" says don't touch the artifact, the artifact's case; and the sign is in English and Arabic why do Egyptians and tourists alike still need to touch the artifacts, cases and statues?

What in the hell is wrong with people?

Worse yet, why do parents encourage their son to pose next to a statue with his arm around the shoulders of the statue when clearly the whole Egyptian family is literate?

What the hell is wrong with people?

---

---

That is so rude...
What were they saying about him/her??
WHY?? as if the child has any fault in how God made them??
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
Snapdragon, you dont have to look far above you to see a good example of one egyptian woman at her best.



 

---

Posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari (Member # 8356) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:
Snapdragon, you dont have to look far above you to see a good example of one egyptian woman at her best.

---

Diagnosis: OCD!

3ala ra2yek! Medication time!


 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
I think we have a case of CJD here.

Scientist sperm rattling around with all that other sperm...............ahhhhhhhhh maybe a farmers daughter, sharm sharks, at least that would account for the language................
 

---

Posted by Snapdragon (Member # 9036) on :
 
Yeah exactly. I feel sorry for her poor little child. I don't read her posts but I knew what you meant....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:
Snapdragon, you dont have to look far above you to see a good example of one egyptian woman at her best.

---

 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
sad isn't it............... Something real organically wrong going on in that particular head.
I think she has a fixation on me, it is quite disturbing actually...............


If Sammy ignores it then we have no choice to fight fire with fire.......
 

---

Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
 
ohhhhhhhhhhhh FIRE !!???
I like to use aerosol hairspray with FIRE !!!
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
Sonomod, I apologise in advance if your thread gets deleted, just like yesterdays driving thread. Once she gets her teeth back in I am sure she will be using her favourite phrases...........but hopefully she will lay off and stop following me around like a Basset Hound........
your thread was a goodun.
 

---

Posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari (Member # 8356) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon:
Yeah exactly. I feel sorry for her poor little child. I don't read her posts but I knew what you meant....

---

Feel sorry for your own self ya shatrah. How is selling belly dance clothes on e-bay going by the way? Does it buy you some fool and gargeer?

I didn't marry and moved to live in Tanta , of all holes!! Soh!

And you are a big time liar, you spy on EN all day and read all my posts so I blocked your ass ya 7elwah! And you're killing your profile trying to find out what went wrong.. While I'm sitting here watching in amusement and ROFL at your stupidity!

Ya Horse, imagine, the father of your child's holy figure is his mother's pedophile.

Talk about feeling sorry for the kids.

 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
Sonomod, I apologise in advance if your thread gets deleted, just like yesterdays driving thread. Once she gets her teeth back in I am sure she will be using her favourite phrases...........but hopefully she will lay off and stop following me around like a Basset Hound........
your thread was a goodun.
 

---

Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon:
Yeah exactly. I feel sorry for her poor little child. I don't read her posts but I knew what you meant....

---

the father of your child's holy figure is his mother's pedophile.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon:
Yeah exactly. I feel sorry for her poor little child. I don't read her posts but I knew what you meant....

---

the father of your child's holy figure is his mother's pedophile.

---

I totally don't get this then again I haven't had my evening coffee yet....

---

She bitched for ages that Mohamed is a pedophile and "had she known before she converted"!!!

But Tanta made her go wacko, so I'll keep quiet if she shuts it!
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 
Just as I predicted the thread will be pulled,
anyway let her rant on she is exposing herself perfectly............
 

---

Posted by foreignluvr (Member # 5854) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
the locals here always think I'm Lebanese or Syrian before I speak ROFL

---

The thread is still here and I don't personally see any reason for it to be deleted!!
Smuckers, I wanted to tell you I saw ur pic in another forum and you are such a doll!!! U have
a lucky husband!!!
 

---

Posted by Albino_Eskimo (Member # 11479) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon:
Well when you are not taught any manners or discipline as a child then you grow up that way as well. Egyptian children are not disciplined at all. They scream, fight, throw things at each other, say the nastiest words possible, shove and push and simply put it is their parents fault for not teaching them the proper manners they needed. I have seen grown adult men and women make fun of a down syndrome child at a wedding party. Not one or two but a group of them. Of course along with a dozen children. What did they think he was a clown or something?
Didn't someone teach them to behave and be respectful of other people even with disabilities? No.....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Albino_Eskimo:
Alright when a sign at the "Egypt Museum" says don't touch the artifact, the artifact's case; and the sign is in English and Arabic why do Egyptians and tourists alike still need to touch the artifacts, cases and statues?

What in the hell is wrong with people?

Worse yet, why do parents encourage their son to pose next to a statue with his arm around the shoulders of the statue when clearly the whole Egyptian family is literate?

What the hell is wrong with people?

---

---

That is so rude...
What were they saying about him/her??
WHY?? as if the child has any fault in how God made them??

---

Actually that attitude towards mentally delayed children is changing. I think a few Egyptian celebs have openly celebrated their down syndrome children in public and rallied behind disability causes in general.

Things are changing, but it takes time.

There was a movie a while back with Nourhan and Mahmoud Abdel Aziz (father and daughter characters) and one of the neighbor kids was mentally delayed. Nourhan's father Aziz coaxed this child to spy on his daughter constantly to check on her whereabouts (she had a boyfriend in the hood) and she was careful not to berate this spy kid for his disability because its unIslamic.

Was a major, major social change motivator.

It takes the media and major celebs to focus social change and this subplot was a candid way of going about it.

I did see a morbidly obese down syndrome boy at Montazah Palace Beach. He was overall well-behaved and very kind. But his family had a very special way with him that was mentally/emotionally healthy.

It will change. And Egyptians find westerners as role models (unfortunately) and its our khawagaa responsibility to be gentle and supportive. It was just 2 decades ago when we breached this same issue. Be kind and they will be kind.
 

---

Posted by Jamsie Cottar (Member # 9824) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by foreignluvr:

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
the locals here always think I'm Lebanese or Syrian before I speak ROFL

---

The thread is still here and I don't personally see any reason for it to be deleted!!
Smuckers, I wanted to tell you I saw ur pic in another forum and you are such a doll!!! U have
a lucky husband!!!

---

Smuckers is not only a doll in looks but in real life. I spent the day at her home in shebin with her and her husband and they are the most friendly, welcoming, and devoted couple. Your darling habibi rocks!!!...thanks again for that day.......we had a lovely time.xx
 

---

Posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari (Member # 8356) on :
 
A dumb friend in deed is a dumb friend indeed.

- Monoofi Proverb
 

---

Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by foreignluvr:

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
the locals here always think I'm Lebanese or Syrian before I speak ROFL

---

The thread is still here and I don't personally see any reason for it to be deleted!!
Smuckers, I wanted to tell you I saw ur pic in another forum and you are such a doll!!! U have
a lucky husband!!!

---

(((blushing)))) thanks! (I'm pretty lucky myself actually, he's so kind).
 

---

Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamsie Cottar:

quote:

---

Originally posted by foreignluvr:

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
the locals here always think I'm Lebanese or Syrian before I speak ROFL

---

The thread is still here and I don't personally see any reason for it to be deleted!!
Smuckers, I wanted to tell you I saw ur pic in another forum and you are such a doll!!! U have
a lucky husband!!!

---

Smuckers is not only a doll in looks but in real life. I spent the day at her home in shebin with her and her husband and they are the most friendly, welcoming, and devoted couple. Your darling habibi rocks!!!...thanks again for that day.......we had a lovely time.xx

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snoozer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Madame M.:
In Dec. when it was fairly chilly even in Cairo the Euros were dressed for the beach. It was too dayum cold for that! I found that the Americans, Canadians, and Asians were far more respectable clothing wise than the Euros.

---

I agree with that....the European tourists I saw at Giza, Egyptian Museum, Citadel, around the Nile, etc., were all wearing tiny halter tops and short-shorts. And some men with above-the-knee shorts. (that's just wrong anywhere).

I wouldn't think twice about that attire here at home, but it was really weird to see women wearing that in Cairo, after everything the tourguide books say about dressing at least somewhat modestly. (But again, I never saw Americans, so who knows what they might have been wearing).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers:
the locals here always think I'm Lebanese or Syrian before I speak ROFL

---

Then you must be a hot mamma

I like Lebanese or Syrian looking people ... they are too white or too dark..... they combine the eastern & the western look
 

---

Posted by Chinderella angel (Member # 11953) on :
 
[Originally posted by foreignluvr:

Smuckers, I wanted to tell you I saw ur pic in another forum and you are such a doll!!! U have
a lucky husband!!! [/QUOTE]

Where is that picture?
 

---

Posted by Graf_Genn (Member # 11802) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon: Well when you are not taught any manners or discipline as a child then you grow up that way as well. Egyptian children are not disciplined at all. They scream, fight, throw things at each other, say the nastiest words possible, shove and push and simply put it is their parents fault for not teaching them the proper manners they needed. I have seen grown adult men and women make fun of a down syndrome child at a wedding party. Not one or two but a group of them. Of course along with a dozen children. What did they think he was a clown or something?
Didn't someone teach them to behave and be respectful of other people even with disabilities? No.....


True story:

Egyptian man marries European woman and they have a daughter. They live in Europe. After several years, they all go to Egypt to visit his family. They stay about 3 weeks. Upon their return, the school of the little girl calls and asks that the parents go to her school. They are appalled when they find out that she has been hitting and biting other children, calling them bad names and throwing dirt on them in the play area. The parents ask her where she learned this and why she was doing it. She replied with "all the kids in Egypt were doing it." Needless to say, his wife refuses to take the little girl back to Egypt. She was very well mannered prior to this.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graf_Genn:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snapdragon: Well when you are not taught any manners or discipline as a child then you grow up that way as well. Egyptian children are not disciplined at all. They scream, fight, throw things at each other, say the nastiest words possible, shove and push and simply put it is their parents fault for not teaching them the proper manners they needed. I have seen grown adult men and women make fun of a down syndrome child at a wedding party. Not one or two but a group of them. Of course along with a dozen children. What did they think he was a clown or something?
Didn't someone teach them to behave and be respectful of other people even with disabilities? No.....


True story:

Egyptian man marries European woman and they have a daughter. They live in Europe. After several years, they all go to Egypt to visit his family. They stay about 3 weeks. Upon their return, the school of the little girl calls and asks that the parents go to her school. They are appalled when they find out that she has been hitting and biting other children, calling them bad names and throwing dirt on them in the play area. The parents ask her where she learned this and why she was doing it. She replied with "all the kids in Egypt were doing it." Needless to say, his wife refuses to take the little girl back to Egypt. She was very well mannered prior to this.

---

What inclines someone to write rubbish like this?

The general majority of children in Egypt fear their parents, and they know that bad behaviour at school usually earns them a few bruises at home. Even young adults in college know that disagreeing with a parent while looking them in the eyes is a bad move to make. Go witness children in the malls or boutiques in Egypt and note how many are behaving as described.

Regarding teasing delayed or disabled children, Egypt has ancient cultural indications of actually honoring them, as well as Christian and Islamic precedent for treating them respectfully.

Don't be fooled by these sensational stories, and definitely don't believe they are the norm.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Graf_Genn:
What I am referring to is a precedent for a behaviour that is easily observed in Egypt. Where it comes from, other than just usual ethics. Do you believe that the common practice in Egypt is making fun of disabled people? Or, that Egyptians generally have more patience with disabled people than they do the usual people? No Egyptian that I have observed thought it was our common practice to ridicule children with birth defects, so snapdragon's experience which she is claiming the norm is far from general practice *and* far from ideals.

Your ex-husband may not have feared his father but ask him about how the general children will be dealt with if they are throwing dirt, biting, and hitting the other students in Egypt. I was a good kid just out of personality so I never developed a fear of my father, but I know my own culture well enough to know the norms.
Regardless, your husband still respected his father enough to not want to disappoint him which is also a point to substantiate how uncommon and unlikely snapdragon's "observations" are.

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Actually I have only seen one example of treating disabled child well or near equally. And that was an Egyptian family living abroad.

Most of the time I have seen disabled children and people being treated in a horrible fashion.

Possibly you are surrounded by naturally good people or Egyptians residing abroad?

And no my ex-husband was one of the biggest trouble-makers in his family and hometown. He was made "boss" of the classroom for years because the other children feared him so. He became a deviant as a teenager is on a long journey back to decency. He hasn't arrived quite yet.
 

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Posted by Graf_Genn (Member # 11802) on :
 
Haha, I guess it is possible, though I suspect quite unlikely, that people simply decide to be on their best behaviour whenever I am near I think it is more likely that people notice something very rare and then paint all Egyptians with the same brush. I wouldn't expect anyone to think that the people I admire are the norm, just as I think it is unwise for others to think those that set the worst example are the face of the general public.

I think all points have been explored regarding this, so although you are rather pleasant, I will be moving on. Good day
 

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Posted by WOTEVER (Member # 11942) on :
 
There's a school in Egypt that caters for 'special' children with down's and other disabilities, they were treated better than the other children in the school, the parents and teachers were wonderful.
 

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Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Graf_Genn:
I think it is more likely that people notice something very rare and then paint all Egyptians with the same brush.

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Very well rehearsed line, just worded differently.

No what I have seen isn't rare, its common.

Graf_Genn, I know you want to see your people as flawless or at least vastly superior to the west. But even then why can't you see the social ills for what they are?

Is it because you don't find fault with these social ills?

Is it because it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't exist?

Loads of social problems don't affect me:

Drug abuse
teenage pregnancy
sexual abuse/assualt
DUI
corporate crime (so far, keep my fingers crossed)
panhandling
and an assortment of others I can't recall because it doesn't affect me. But its not like I won't admit that these social ills are in my society.
 

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Posted by Graf_Genn (Member # 11802) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:

No what I have seen isn't rare, its common.

Graf_Genn, I know you want to see your people as flawless or at least vastly superior to the west. But even then why can't you see the social ills for what they are?

Is it because you don't find fault with these social ills?

Is it because it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't exist?

Loads of social problems don't affect me:

Drug abuse
teenage pregnancy
sexual abuse/assualt
DUI
corporate crime (so far, keep my fingers crossed)
panhandling
and an assortment of others I can't recall because it doesn't affect me. But its not like I won't admit that these social ills are in my society. [/QB]

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Sigh... after I bid you good day you summon me back just to misrepresent me? Let me start by saying I never made any comparison to any Western nations, so please don't make further attempts to pass this off as a superiority issue.
I have also never said Egyptian culture was perfect, what I said was Egyptian kids biting eachother in school and wedding parties making fun disabled kids was rare. In fact I have never even heard of anything like this except from 2 foreign women with relations to Egyptians in Tanta. Forgive me if I don't take your word over my own experience when representing the entirety of my people. "All the children in Egypt were doing this." Sorry, I think this is rubbish. My own childhood in Egypt, and that of family and friends refutes this. Add to that a party of adults ridiculing a disabled child? I still have reservations about it, but maybe snapdragon did indeed see this, but to try and convince me that this is the standard in Egypt is... not really worthy of more response.
 

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Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Graf_Genn:

quote:

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Originally posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha:

No what I have seen isn't rare, its common.

Graf_Genn, I know you want to see your people as flawless or at least vastly superior to the west. But even then why can't you see the social ills for what they are?

Is it because you don't find fault with these social ills?

Is it because it doesn't affect you, so it doesn't exist?

Loads of social problems don't affect me:

Drug abuse
teenage pregnancy
sexual abuse/assualt
DUI
corporate crime (so far, keep my fingers crossed)
panhandling
and an assortment of others I can't recall because it doesn't affect me. But its not like I won't admit that these social ills are in my society.

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Sigh... after I bid you good day you summon me back just to misrepresent me? Let me start by saying I never made any comparison to any Western nations, so please don't make further attempts to pass this off as a superiority issue.
I have also never said Egyptian culture was perfect, what I said was Egyptian kids biting eachother in school and wedding parties making fun disabled kids was rare. In fact I have never even heard of anything like this except from 2 foreign women with relations to Egyptians in Tanta. Forgive me if I don't take your word over my own experience when representing the entirety of my people. "All the children in Egypt were doing this." Sorry, I think this is rubbish. My own childhood in Egypt, and that of family and friends refutes this. Add to that a party of adults ridiculing a disabled child? I still have reservations about it, but maybe snapdragon did indeed see this, but to try and convince me that this is the standard in Egypt is... not really worthy of more response. [/QB]

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Again it doesn't affect you personally so it don't exist. And on top of it you are a self-declared "1%" (of wealthy Europeans).

Ever heard fat cats only life in a fishbowl before?

If I had the time I'd go back through and repost comments and hyperlinks to threads in which both foreigner and Egyptians alike rant uncontrollably about how ill-behaved children are and how disabled people are treated with spite.

My personal view is in the west we see children as miniture adults. And expect them to behave accordingly. But in Islamic precepts children are to be included in all functions of family and society. While western Protestant values see putting children in their own section of the home and have a few particular adults to attend to their needs is meant to keep them in a low contagion and stress free environment. I see both systems as having value, and both systems as having drawbacks.

But even then someone who is part of the top 1% couldn't possibly understand.

By the way I have a pretty darn resilant set of socialist views.
 

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Posted by Graf_Genn (Member # 11802) on :
 
You can play with your inaccurate conjecture without me, just becareful not to do it around any Egyptian children for they may just munch on you. Maybe a lighter mood would sweeten you up and make you irresistable. Enjoy!
 

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Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Graf_Genn:
You can play with your inaccurate conjecture without me, just becareful not to do it around any Egyptian children for they may just munch on you. Maybe a lighter mood would sweeten you up and make you irresistable. Enjoy!

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Not worried about being munched on. Just don't want another UTI and have my daughter treating me like a bronching bull or some sort of trampoline.

I enjoy how children are allowed to behave like children in Egypt and not expected to be little adults. But I wonder when they are expected to grow up. I had more maturity at age 14 than most Egyptian women I see in their late 20s, for Egyptian men their 30s.

And I don't see Egyptians sheltering their children from things like violence on TV or even in public. My daughter watches alot of grown up TV with her grandmother and I have tried over and over again to make sure my daughter isn't exposed to this. But grandma's authority rule. Worse yet when adults get into a heated exchange and it turns into a mob fight. Even in Mamura of Alex or Heliopolis of Cairo very few people pull their children away from the scene to spare them the sight.

then the cussing. In most US states someone could be charged with a mestermeanor for swearing in front of a child, but somehow its not kept in check around children in Egypt.

Anyhow my bladder and kidneys are still recovering from little girl abuse. But it was great to see her smile and laugh, even if it was at my expense.
 

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Posted by Graf_Genn (Member # 11802) on :
 
Haven't you learned that in Egypt only the first born sons are expected to grow up? Even then, it is only if the father has his way. If the mother wins out none of the children grow up, they just get married.

Are you sure no children have taken a chomp out of you yet? You sound very much sweeter.
 

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Posted by Everyone's_a_Pascha (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Graf_Genn:
Haven't you learned that in Egypt only the first born sons are expected to grow up? Even then, it is only if the father has his way. If the mother wins out none of the children grow up, they just get married.

Are you sure no children have taken a chomp out of you yet? You sound very much sweeter.

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Well that explains why my MIL still cries over the fact that her middle son and I don't live in her house.

And I haven't been bit since childhood by a child, and that was retaliation for biting her (somehow no boy ever bit me back).

Whens the last time you've been bit?
 

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