That was a good example though, I guess I need to speak like a woman more often he he he..! 
And that, those Egyptians are almost always the same ones -, again and again, according to a list posted somewhere with names and pictures - that hurt those foreigners (many of them 'sex tourists' by the way) that actually go looking for it, with open arms and open wallets?
I am positive that most foreigners that go looking for quick fun in Egyptian resorts - with gigolos - are certainly not interested in the cultural, intellectual and historic side of Egypt - or so it seems according to all the stories, as they have no clue about social classes to start with etc..etc....and all you hear is Orfi not Orfi...apartment, sleeping before, sleeping after, sleeping where, with family without family, other wife many girlfriends, players ...then it's the SMS and web cam phase...pleaaase!
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong!
But your idea is brilliant of course, for the right crowd.
Salam
Monica
They are all busy actually, making a decent living!
About honest mediators: check my posts friend, you'll find out I've been really really trying - along with others!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 23 February 2004).]
wacobaco, I got your point for sure!
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
hi Monica, r u trying to make a list composed of egyptian job titles? sorry ..just kidding ..but still got ur point ..that u got my point .. which is exactly ur point .. and our points r the same points of others..sooo..what is the point?
i mean ..even after reading ur many many posts.. i think what i was saying here is some kind of association..not only one person with his/her relations with other few persons..no..big bond of characters..in which each has his own circles of friends..that need to come together through such a bond..did u get anything of what i'm saying? good..have a good day.
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
After reading so much posts here..one can conclude what is written as follow : - some foreigners in love with Egypt and Egyptians
- some foreigners in love with Egypt but burnt by Egyptians
- some Good Egyptians would die to socialize with foreigners (male/female vice versa ..with good intentions)
- some foreigners would like to take the risk and go under the experience of knowing Egyptians (even if it ends up sadly)
- some bad Egyptians having every possible way to get to know foreigners and use them cleverly
- some foreigners liked to be abused by their own wills by bad Egyptians
- some ..and ..some..and bla..bla ..bla..
Sooo the final result is MESS !!!
how about something like .. association..or bond..or whatever..with mutual command (foreigners and Egyptians) .. those who r trusted for both sides..try to make it true..(on solid bases ..like education, contacting language, interests.) maybe like what we used to have here in Egypt ( i mean Tourists Friends Association) in a more modernize way..to help all..i mean ALLS .. to get what they want..could that be possible one day? ..I wonder ?!!
but isnt this forum about all of the above - common bond - everyone helping the other.
some people do have problems and i think it is great to have a place to let off steam, find advice about things that i need/want to know.
i have found more tolerence and compassion in this forum - from folk of all cultures - than i am finding in my 'real' world at the moment.
so i feel i have found an association of friends - it already exists - right here
thankyou and much love kay. X
But please rest assured that Monica is not an old guy!! That was a good example though, I guess I need to speak like a woman more often he he he..!
Some people on this board know me by the way!
But you have a point, we should discuss it further, so what about - and I'll speak like a guy now.. he he he - drafting a proposal here on ES, and see what goes!?...and if it gets the interest needed to really start it, I'll be active, as much as my time can permit it - my busy days are by crunches, you know.
What about that?
Looking forward to your proposal on the subject matter!
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
Hi kay ..sure this forum is nice..and a preliminary stage of what i'm talking about..it is like a cold canned PEPSI while traveling in the desert..but how about big river then ? .. see my point? ..it may be part of the target..not the wanted target... i'm talking about real society .. one that based here ..and can help those foreigners living here ..or to come..those Egyptians living here ..or to travel abroad.. something really huge..international..but not necessarily governmental ..just few non-professonals volunteers and fans of the association can do it.. + which is better..to meet real people in real life..with real experiences and help..or to hear WacoBaco's experience ..who may be a little child..or listen to Monica.. whom u think she is talking from girl's viewpoint ..while she is in real life old guy ..or even discover that "kay in love" is symbol for "key" in real life...who know which is which..?..i'm talking about ..REAL LIFE..
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
What I'd like to see is a 'proposal' and then the reaction of the readers. If no one is interested, this conversation will die abrupltly anyway!
I can picture one of the main objectives being: GUIDING foreigners towards the right communities when residing in Egypt, as well as when visiting. In order to protect them and to contribute in stopping the disgusting nonsense that is happening now!
And if such an association exists already it will show up, once a research is conducted as part of the feasibility study for this 'not for profit' project...what about that ?
If people are serious this could be great.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
i would love to be involved - not sure in what way i could help? but would do what i can
who is going to kick start the proposal???
dont think i have enough of the right knowledge
maybe wacobaco would like to get back to us?
i also still think that some of the objectives already exist on this board. there have been many threads about where to live, fors and agansts different areas - advice on hotels and what to see - i think that a board such as this has got a big part to play especialy as it is such a good first point of contact and can reach so many people from all around the world.
as i said if i can be of any help then im happy to get involved.
much love kay X
no hard feelings I have a sense of humour thanks God!An official proposal is needed.
Meaning you draft it as a business proposition, here on this board with all your initial ideas in an organized way. We can all add or adjust the proposal, until we have a final document...
In the meantime people would start to show interest - or not, and we can take it from there, or not!
You could be one of the rotating members...we can have a voting committee for 'positions' and when in Egypt you can attend by-monthly meetings for example...we can at least make a Pilot out of this project, the cyber way!
But it's not going to work if it's only Kay the 'key' Monica the 'old guy' and wacobaco the 'child...!!!
Now, I have to run to a business meeting, before my Boss goes waco with me ...he he he!
quote:
Originally posted by kay in love:
monica
this sounds greati would love to be involved - not sure in what way i could help? but would do what i can
who is going to kick start the proposal???
dont think i have enough of the right knowledgemaybe wacobaco would like to get back to us?
i also still think that some of the objectives already exist on this board. there have been many threads about where to live, fors and agansts different areas - advice on hotels and what to see - i think that a board such as this has got a big part to play especialy as it is such a good first point of contact and can reach so many people from all around the world.
as i said if i can be of any help then im happy to get involved.
much love kay X
By the way, Kay and Wacobaco, check the 'Find my son' by Zendano - thread in the 'Looking for people or a business' forum, and see if you both can support...in words... at least!
Thanks.
Monica
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
look Tamy ..i won't blame u for ur desperate feeling ..coze i went through it many times..but i'll tell u something ..those who too k such bad ideas about us..coze they went through bad experiences with egyptians..so partially ..it is our own fault (Egyptians) .. even not all of us like that... generalization notion is a universal one..it means it is not only foreigners do so ..we do so too..Ex .. Russians r cold ..Germans r tough..British r arrogant..and so on..
sooo many bad Egyptians meet with foreigners and give bad image...how about giving the for good Egyptians to spread the real image ? maybe ur desperate feelings would drive u to be part of my idea..(as such feelings could drive much numbers of Egyptians o do the same) ..and the dream come true..!! who knows?
It is maybe irrealistic to start educating the world about decent Egyptians, in order to be recognized as a nice people..............or is it? and if we don't do it, who will????
It could be wonderful if we could clean up the tourist sector from those 'gigolos' by attracting the 'right' foreigners, instead of the sex tourists...but if that is what they want, it is their choice!
No?
MMMM...branching out again Monica...but it's an important issue though!
Let's start a campaign he he he....
What do you think?
Monica
...............................
My dad is a decent Egyptian man, and so is my brother!
quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Mr Wacobaco.... I wouldn't move an inch to prove/show how good we are. If they don't like it, they can lump it... I can assure you, that's how they think when we go to them.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Monica.... are you basically Egyptian??
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 25 February 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Rimo (edited 07 August 2004).]
i guess this sounds great , u can count me in, the idea is brilliant actually and i will give all the support i can give,
------------------
BoBBoSS
if you had never been in a country before, and you just met someone - how can you already know about all you've written about? The "SMS" and "Webcam-Phase"????? Thanks for motivating all girls who absolutely have to start with it, even if they have a sincere relationship in mind. What did you do? Writing letters, see him the second time and then married legally with all consequenses? Of course there are good and bad and everyone have to find out what your partner is kind of. But how can you find out? By phone? By writing e-mails? No way!!!! Everyone can say and write everything what he wants if you can not see his face. And even if you see his face its difficult to find out whats real and whats not real. You are bored by questions about "Orfi or not Orfi"? Or by "sleeping before or after marriage?" But this is a forum. And I am glad that I find people who can explain to me egyptian cultural things, because I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT CULTURE AND MENTALITY. And I think thats the reason why most of the people here are posting. Can you give me a hint how to start it a better way than by talking with the guy you want to meet again? Or do you think that everyone who is not "my class" is not right because Egyptians feel that way? You with your experience are the only one who knows these things. How can I know before getting more egyptian experiences. I do want to have more. But sorry, I fell in love before that. Am I now a "..." because I have to get this wisdom after I met an Egyptian man? Thanks a lot for this compliment.
quote:
Originally posted by Monica:
Have you also noticed that the Egyptians abusing foreigners, are ALL located in a very small area? [Hurghada-Sharm-Luxor]And that, those Egyptians are almost always the same ones -, again and again, according to a list posted somewhere with names and pictures - that hurt those foreigners (many of them 'sex tourists' by the way) that actually go looking for it, with open arms and open wallets?
I am positive that most foreigners that go looking for quick fun in Egyptian resorts - with gigolos - are certainly not interested in the cultural, intellectual and historic side of Egypt - or so it seems according to all the stories, as they have no clue about social classes to start with etc..etc....and all you hear is Orfi not Orfi...apartment, sleeping before, sleeping after, sleeping where, with family without family, other wife many girlfriends, players ...then it's the SMS and web cam phase...pleaaase!
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong!
But your idea is brilliant of course, for the right crowd.
Salam
Monica
I really did not mean to offend anyone, but if you read some of the older posts here, you'll see that all women end up with broken hearts...and the ones that go for a 'good' time that end up 'falling in love' get trapped by the 'gigolos'...also end up with a broken heart.
I only wished that all women were aware that they should take their time to know the culture first, to understand 'classes' in Egypt and how they function, and what they think of foreigners in general, and which class respect them and which class abuse them... in order to understand the mentality of the person they are falling in love with.
So for example, you would come on this board to understand the mentality of an Egyptian man, wonderful...you came to the right place Jutta, so for example again, you give this board a description of his personality, his education, his class, his family influence etc..etc... and this board having the experience through hundreds of posts, and through outside stories that actually make the news about gigolos, will tell you in a second the guy IS or is Not a gigolo!
Up to you to go for it or not...and up to me to make a comment that some of the people just go for 'fun' and some of the people don't really bother to find out about EGYPT per se, but only care about a man they met in a resort that is fitting the characteristics of a player...but still don't believe the board and the posts, and the stories that are always exactly the same clichés....what can I tell you Jutta...?
One important note: MOST of the time, if you sleep with a Muslim Egyptian man in Egypt without being married to him, he will NOT respect you...will marry you?...maybe...he will leave you later?...probably...why? because that is mostly the Egyptian mentality. There are some exceptions of course, in different circles different upbringing, exposed to different mentalities.
How do I know? I was born and raised there and that is ALL you hear, ALL the time while growing up!
Decent Egyptian families are very particular when it comes to marriage, the 'man' is checked inside out, they find out about his family, his reputation, everything because there is no way that any decent Egyptian family will let a daughter marry within an obscure family, and thus, marry a man that has a bad reputation.
That is the decent side of Egypt Jutta!
And in arabic:
'Deeh Misr ya Jutta!'
Orfi is also an issue with decent Egyptian families, it is considered a 'shame'. Will that offend all Orfi married women? Well, what can I tell you but: Don't shoot the messenger, people!
I wish you Good luck...and sincerely, be careful!
Monica
.............................
My dad is a decent Egyptian man, and so is my brother!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Rimo:
You definitely sound like a Guy nowDon't overdo it you might wake up with a moustache and a potbelly
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
Thank you fo the nice words.
About this isue, It's not easy to cut through the clutter, and the buzz, and the bad propaganda and the bad experiences; and everything negative is usually so difficult to erase....
I have to admit that after reading so many negative posts within the past 8 months, it is very frustrating to see that Egyptian men are mostly bashed because of a bunch of 'gigolos'.
And that most foreigners are indeed heartbroken.
But wacobaco started a nice topic, so we 're shooting positive ideas, and who knows?
Have a great evening!
Monica
....................................
My dad is a decent Egyptian man, and so is my brother!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
I am positive that most foreigners that go looking for quick fun in Egyptian resorts - with gigolos - are certainly not interested in the cultural, intellectual and historic side of Egypt - or so it seems according to all the stories, as they have no clue about social classes to start with
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong!"
I am correcting you Monica..... not all "gigolos" are from the tourist resorts and not all "foreigners" are sex tourists with no interest in the cultural, intellectual and historical side of Egypt.
I myself, study egyptology, the culture and history of Egypt are what brought me there in the first place. I am educated, my profession being that of an accountant. Yet I have been an Orfi wife, and I have no regrets. I know you will say that you didnt mean me personally, that not all foreigners are sex tourists.... but you have said you would like to attract the "right" sort of tourists instead of the sex tourists.
Let me tell you something, these professional egyptians which you speak of can be just as bad as the gigolos. No, they can be worse because they hide behind their so called respectability. I love my internet, I have many many friends all over the world because of the internet. I will be in Florida in May to attend the wedding of a very dear friend I met in a chat room.
And in those chat rooms I met egyptian men. Not the lower classes who work in the tourist industry (they cant afford pc's at home), but
"The lawyers, the accountants, the translators, the army Engineers the civil Engineers, the computer Engineers, sales people, marketing people, the librarians, the researchers, the professors, the surgeons, the dentists, the business entrepreneurs, the journalists, the writers, the poets, the educated people you mean!
They are all busy actually, making a decent living!"
and believe me....... from personal experience they are no better than the gigolo... in fact, give me a gigolo any day, at least they are honest in what they want from us.
I could name names, I could tell you of a certain married dentistry professor who professed to want friendship, but turned out to be only interested in cybersex... or the computer programmer who travelled the world selling and demonstrating software systems.... who I actually met in real life, who was a perfect gentleman, until he thought I trusted him implicitly, then he showed his true colours.
No Monica..... I am correcting you. Generalisations of "foreigners" and of "educated, intellectual egyptians" are always just that. General.
------------------
Sex tourist
I am actually exploring the idea of delivering the information to the tourists, in a 'workshop' format!
To be continued......
Thinking Monica!
That was very honest, straight to the point, and extremely informative.
I did ask to correct me if I was wrong, so thank you for giving us the dark side, based on your knowledge.
My post was related to the stories read on this board, by the way!
But does it mean that every Egyptian accountant and every Egyptian doctor etc...has a cyber adventure?
And when I say 'decent' I mean the decent Egyptians within every class and every profession. The bunch that you have encountered on the net, pretended to be decent Egyptians at first, but at the end of the day they were not decent at all...so they do not count within the decent bunch, in my book.
I'm not really sure if you are serious in terms of being a sex tourist, or if it's a joke, so what can I say but: whatever makes you happy!
The gigolo's approach vs the obscure type, that uncovers his mask later, is not an option for me and many others. I certainly despise both types.
But you did make your point, not all sex tourists are uneducated, and not all intellectuals are decent.
Enjoy the wedding in Florida!
Monica
........................................
Cairo population: 15 million
Egypt population: 70 million
originally posted by Shareen
Monica said....
"Have you also noticed that the Egyptians abusing foreigners, are ALL located in a very small area? [Hurghada-Sharm-Luxor]
And that, those Egyptians are almost always the same ones -, again and again, according to a list posted somewhere with names and pictures - that hurt those foreigners (many of them 'sex tourists' by the way) that actually go looking for it, with open arms and open wallets?
I am positive that most foreigners that go looking for quick fun in Egyptian resorts - with gigolos - are certainly not interested in the cultural, intellectual and historic side of Egypt - or so it seems according to all the stories, as they have no clue about social classes to start with
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong!"
I am correcting you Monica..... not all "gigolos" are from the tourist resorts and not all "foreigners" are sex tourists with no interest in the cultural, intellectual and historical side of Egypt.
I myself, study egyptology, the culture and history of Egypt are what brought me there in the first place. I am educated, my profession being that of an accountant. Yet I have been an Orfi wife, and I have no regrets. I know you will say that you didnt mean me personally, that not all foreigners are sex tourists.... but you have said you would like to attract the "right" sort of tourists instead of the sex tourists.
Let me tell you something, these professional egyptians which you speak of can be just as bad as the gigolos. No, they can be worse because they hide behind their so called respectability. I love my internet, I have many many friends all over the world because of the internet. I will be in Florida in May to attend the wedding of a very dear friend I met in a chat room.
And in those chat rooms I met egyptian men. Not the lower classes who work in the tourist industry (they cant afford pc's at home), but
"The lawyers, the accountants, the translators, the army Engineers the civil Engineers, the computer Engineers, sales people, marketing people, the librarians, the researchers, the professors, the surgeons, the dentists, the business entrepreneurs, the journalists, the writers, the poets, the educated people you mean!
They are all busy actually, making a decent living!"
and believe me....... from personal experience they are no better than the gigolo... in fact, give me a gigolo any day, at least they are honest in what they want from us.
I could name names, I could tell you of a certain married dentistry professor who professed to want friendship, but turned out to be only interested in cybersex... or the computer programmer who travelled the world selling and demonstrating software systems.... who I actually met in real life, who was a perfect gentleman, until he thought I trusted him implicitly, then he showed his true colours.
No Monica..... I am correcting you. Generalisations of "foreigners" and of "educated, intellectual egyptians" are always just that. General.
------------------
Sex tourist
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
and believe me....... from personal experience they are no better than the gigolo... in fact, give me a gigolo any day, at least they are honest in what they want from us.
Shareen... I admire your frankness, but don't you think it is a bit of a sluttish statment you made??
quote:
Originally posted by ausar:
Why does the blame always extend to the Egyptians? Doesn't it take two to tango?
Auser... you're right. it takes a gigolo and a slut to tango. Some people are dubious of the similarity of both words..
quote:
Originally posted by jaguar:
Shareen... I admire your frankness, but don't you think it is a bit of a sluttish statment you made??
Not at all she spoke the truth. I would prefer to have a man be honest with me any day. Deceit is the number one thing I hate in anyone.
Whether or not you take him up on it is another matter and Shareen didn't comment on whether she would do that.
------------------
UK Co-owner of www.toursinluxor.co.uk Accommodation and Tours in Luxor
As we were saying, I read your points and I thought of a workshop format to deliver the information to the 'foeigners'. But remember at this point:
1- we still don't know if such an association exists
2- we don't have enough participants yet -lack of time or interest
3- we still did not research the possibility of turning it into reality
What is needed:
a) to find out if such an organization or a similar one does in fact exist
b) wait to catch more participants
c) and then start researching
I know for a fact that the French cultural centre in Cairo is something to look into when we start our collective research!
We are not in a rush, true, but we are interested in achieving goals.
QUOTE]Originally posted by wacobaco:
JUST GREAT .. guys..u have all such enthusiasm .. just to talk ? ..to defend ur viewpoints? ..to attack each others? ...good ..no problem..but save part of ur enthusiasm and talk for the main target..the real cause of this post..still remember it ? ..i doubt !! .. Monica asked for proposals and ideas..and i gave some..asking for more..(maybe these ideas could be turned into real facts after all) ..but what i got? .. please.. participate ..share .. but ..to the point.. don't drag the whole forum to ONLY personal experience,talk, fight, criticism, ..or even gaining new friend...take it step by step..from the main aim..till the end..and i believe other things (friendship enmity, criticism..) would come in its time...concentrate Monica..SALAM [/QUOTE]
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 25 February 2004).]
------------------
BoBBoSS
The idea is great. There is so much to learn, understand and admire about Egypt, and foreigners are shown so little. I'm all for it.
My two cents about the sex tourism: IGNORE IT. Really. Here's my theory:
many people like the idea of "letting their hair down" and doing things they've always wanted to do but didn't because they fear moral rejection from the community. Doing these things in a foreign country is ideal, because no one knows you and you leave soon anyway.
Men have been doing sex tourism since the beginning of time. From truck drivers and sailors to modern-day tourists, they like to get a little nooky far away from home. But it is not in men's nature to complain openly and discuss this issue. I mean, there are so-called stag parties organized in Prague by the Brits (i.e. a groom-to-be organizes an all-men trip - or bachelor party - with 20 - 30 of his pals and they get as wild as possible, as a symbol that the good old days are over and now he is heading for marriage). But I've yet to see a website of men complaining about being abandoned by foreign prostitutes in their trip.
In Egypt, this sex tourism is done by women. This is something completely new for many women. And women tend to complain a lot, loudly, and sometimes without self-restraint or self-respect. I strongly believe there is 10 times as much sex tourism going on in France, Spain or the Eastern Countries than in Egypt, but since men don't talk about it it seems like Egypt is a big culprit. It isn't.
There will always people who visit a country to understand its people and its country, and people who visit a country just to have some glossy photographs to show their friends.
For the first category, let's have a society and discover Egypt in a totally new and wonderful way.
Lori
------------------
In Love With Egypt
[This message has been edited by Shareen (edited 25 February 2004).]
I will be away from ES for a few days, maybe 1 week or so.
Please do not think I'm letting you down on this nice dream/ future not for profit information/association/Egyptians/Foreigners society project!
One last thing before I go:
Lori's post made me realize that after all we can inform people online - through this thread actually starting next week for example, in an organized way, step by step taking questions and making sure the answer is based on facts, and then we can turn the cyber society to a real one, what do you think???
Salam
Monica
I'm going to be away from ES for at least 1 week, so I wanted to say...thanks for all your replies!
Bon Voyage!(Would you take pictures, and then post them? he he he)
Monica
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 25 February 2004).]
Its back to the generalisation thing... lower class, middle class, upper class, honesty and trustworthyness. I wish you luck in your project.
Oh.... and my signature is a joke, it was a name given to me here by someone who does not know me.
Ausar and Jaguar.... while I appreciate your candid posts, I really do not think that gigolos and sluts go hand in hand. Nor do I think that either can be accused of deviant behaviour. And Jaguar, my remark about preferring the honesty of a gigolo does not mean I took them up on their offer, but at least I am fully aware of what they wish to take from me, unlike my intellectual, educated "friends" who preferred to deceive me. I am with Akshar on this one..... honesty is preferable to dishonesty any day. Good men will be honest no matter what their occupation or there status in life.
I'm also going to open a new thread in all forums for everyone to see this site. I'll be back soon. My work is a bit of a heavy load these days.
Let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas when you study the site, let us know!
Thanks for your trust. I will try to come up with something that will hopefully have a great impact...in a few days..
Cheers!
Monica
..................................
Egypt: I am intoxicated by your eternal beauty!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 28 February 2004).]
people from that board that live in cairo regularly get together and rent a boat for a party or a felluca ride...it's a mix of expats and egyptians and we tend to invite friends from real life to meet wt people off the board.
nothing formal yet from it have begun many friendships and it's quite a large yet intimate community that's supplemented by the people who regularly visit egypt. like shareen.
though we always end up missing one another so we've never actually met on one of these things. LOL
maybe the simplest way to begin is to all meet up somewhere in a less formal fashion.
Sadly though, Expat and I have never quite managed to be in the same place at the same time.
I myself, have met some wonderful people, egyptian and otherwise, I have made some great friends and hope to make many more.
Lol, I will be in Luxor in just over a weeks time.... so if you want to arrange a meet there I would be delighted to attend!
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
.. tell us about dear in detail .. how we can activate such a meeting to be a big gathering ? .. why don't egyptians participating in such a meeting have no voice here at this site? .. Salam
Actually the meeting first started on ES. I remember people arranging a couple of felucca meetings while I was still in Europe (and feeling kind of jealous).
However, it's just a matter of taking the initiative and suggesting dates and times - and it's always a bit complicated to find a date where everyone's free.
Most of the meetings are are not actually "big gatherings", five to twelve people, which is a good number. They also kind of reflect the character of the board, meaning there's a very heterogeneous mixture of people, some that you might find very interesting and even become friends with and some that might not be your type at all.
There will be another ET felucca gathering soon, check it out:
http://egypttalk.net/cgi-local/ikonboard.cgi?s=b093db8c67f04d4571ccb190f4af6e23;act=ST;f=1;t=6092
But I recommend you don't talk about Brazilian carneval ...
I’m a French girl, 27 years old, I did a trip in Egypt in last December, there, I had felt in love with an Egyptian man and he told me that he feel the same… He wants to marry me, he wants me to live with him in Egypt…
We have contact by phone or Internet every day.
I trusted him, but now, since I know this forum, I have some fears !!!
How can I know if he is sincere or not ? I’m going to see him in few days, maybe I will see what happen ! But if someone can help me…
I wish you a great time in Luxor! I read somewhere that you will be celebrating your birthday there, as well as Akshar's...have a great time and 'Happy Birthday to you' in advance !
All the best
Monica
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
We have had some very successful meetings Waco.... I attended a really good meeting in Cairo last year. I have also been lucky enough to make 3 meetings here in the UK, 2 of them attended by egyptians as well as 1 from the States.
Debbie is very good at arranging meetings in Cairo, usually on a felucca in Maadi (I think)
My first ever meeting was an EgyptSearch meeting, but in London, to meet a member who had travelled from Cairo on business.
Its not a new idea but is always a very good one.Sadly though, Expat and I have never quite managed to be in the same place at the same time.
I myself, have met some wonderful people, egyptian and otherwise, I have made some great friends and hope to make many more.
Lol, I will be in Luxor in just over a weeks time.... so if you want to arrange a meet there I would be delighted to attend!
Have a good time
Leo.
how are u monica? it's really been a while since i followed your replies, where is adoula by the way ,i am not seeing him around also ,
wacobaco: lets make something active, lets call for a gathering and work to make it real , so put a plan for a coming gathering, lets start by egyptians and all who can come, lets start by cairo ,
------------------
BoBBoSS
quote:
Originally posted by Monica:
Have you also noticed that the Egyptians abusing foreigners, are ALL located in a very small area? [Hurghada-Sharm-Luxor]And that, those Egyptians are almost always the same ones -, again and again, according to a list posted somewhere with names and pictures - that hurt those foreigners (many of them 'sex tourists' by the way) that actually go looking for it, with open arms and open wallets?
I am positive that most foreigners that go looking for quick fun in Egyptian resorts - with gigolos - are certainly not interested in the cultural, intellectual and historic side of Egypt - or so it seems according to all the stories, as they have no clue about social classes to start with etc..etc....and all you hear is Orfi not Orfi...apartment, sleeping before, sleeping after, sleeping where, with family without family, other wife many girlfriends, players ...then it's the SMS and web cam phase...pleaaase!
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong!
But your idea is brilliant of course, for the right crowd.
Salam
Monica
Good luck
G.Luck
Monica
......................................
Self respect is the answer
quote:
Originally posted by Maruska:
Sorry Monica, can't remember where's the list (I've seen it once). Could you remind me where i can find it?
Tx
Maruska
lets give time for other friends to be prepared,
lets first :
make a new thread for this issue.
then choose a place which i suggest (grand cafe maadi)
and i also suggest the time to be may be after 3-4 weeks ,
------------------
BoBBoSS
Will you bring flowers to the ES meeting?
The Tulips on your site are really nice!
If you guys end up meeting, could someone take pics and notes, for the rest of us who are still halfway to Paradise on earth ?
Thanks!
quote:
Originally posted by leonides:
Hi wacobaco, nice start for me it's ok just name the place also you can contact me for more info ,Good luck
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 04 March 2004).]
------------------
BoBBoSS
So maybe the next meeting?
quote:
Originally posted by BoBBoSS:
monica
we are going to miss u in this meeting if it was meant to be there, anyway , i really wish u can ever be there, is there any possibility that u can be in egypt anytime this year.
------------------
BoBBoSS
http://www.dezy-house.narod.ru/Sharm/sharm.html
here it is.
It was posted on ES a while ago, by a member named aischa who is very helpful on this board.
If you make a search for 'aischa' on this board, at the top of this page on the right side, click the search link, you will find a LOT of information, as well as a similar list for the Hurghada 'boys'.
Hope this helps.
Originally posted by blau_frau:
Hi Monica,
I disagree for some points with you and it's now very long to explain. I would like, but, to get from you the address of this famous listing. I am mooving myself in the direction of preventing any frode to foreigners (above all italian womens) moving to Sharm. I was living there for a while and know I know lots of things..
So, please help me to get a kind of cleaness.[/QUOTE]
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 04 March 2004).]
sure i'll be happy to bring flowers .
Thanks and best of luck to all .
------------------
BoBBoSS
In conclusion, regarding the Egyptian/foreigners misconceptions or misunderstandings leading to disastrous situations, we read on this board practically everyday:
I still believe that a huge part of this whole 'deception' concept, stems from a great lack of knowledge, vis à vis the Egyptian culture of today's 70 million.
Bluntly informing foreigners about how the Egyptian class dominated societies perceive women, that either have pre-marital sex, and /or get into a quick Orfi marriage, after a very short period of time, is a MUST.
The Internet is the venue of the day, that could be the ideal portal for the cross - culture specific information, and most importantly it should be advertized with the coo-peration of all embassies, in protection of their citizens.
An example would be, if you are :
a) a sex tourist, in Egypt
expect............
b) a marriage on the fly oriented, in Egypt
expect.......
c) associating with class 1- class 2- class 3 etc....with description and real examples, in Egypt expect................
d) a business investor needing an agent or a partner, in Egypt consult...expect...
e) gay, in Egypt expect....
f) looking for a job in Egypt, expect....
g) none of the above and REALLY interested in Egypt -the history, the country
expect...........
etc...etc...etc...
I did not find anything that tackles these issues in depth, through any Egyptian/tourist oriented website.
There are Russians and/or German websites warning girls/women of the gigolos of Egypt.
But this type of extremely sensitive, down to earth and factual information, should be generated through a group of Egyptians in a cross-culture specific frame of mind/format.
It's not an easy task to give such gory details/examples, about certain aspects of a country, that aside from being extraordinarily beautiful, and super rich historically, with unmatched people's characteristics when it comes to hospitality, generosity, kindness, compassion, charm etc... is also economically busted - it will get better for sure - at this moment, Islamically oriented, double standard, poor... and I am certain that it's the reason why governments do not tackle the issues in the open.
So what do you think?
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 11 March 2004).]
I meant by that, to warn foreigners that if they have 'sex tourism' in mind and/or encounter proposals of quick marriages/Orfi - mostly a convenient replacement for sex, that it is a totally 'different' perception than in their countries, therefore they will attract abusive individuals - in Egypt too even if it is an Islamic country -...that was really my point. Maybe, I was not very clear.
BUT...thank you for 'el fawa an' as I tend to be idealistic at times...you have a point, and back to what is feasible of course.
Which is: an NGO organization promoting 'in depth' only the positive aspects of Egypt, and leading foreigners towards them - big time.
Back to the same train of thoughts.
When you meet with the rest of the members in person, I'm sure that you will be able to brainstorm.
I'll talk to you later!
Monica
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
Monica, sorry, but i didn't get ur idea here!! do u mean that Egyptian government should issue such example ad u r suggesting to all embassies here, to warn their citizens from? and if not, some nongovernmental organization (such like the one we imagine we would create) to play such a role? if this is what i understood, sorry to oppose such idea..first e r saying that such a behaviour happening all over the world (developed and third world) as far as i know..no country (whether having free sexual activities or conservative) did so. so why should we do? it is clear admission that we have such thing and the government can not control + if we people want to work on changing such bad ideas, not by advertising them as a warning no.. but by highlighting good ideas, or opposite image, spotlighting good example egyptians, as it is said " beakseeha tatdeho al ashiao" "with their opposite things are clear" ..or what do u think?
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 11 March 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Lucie:
Hi everybody,I’m a French girl, 27 years old, I did a trip in Egypt in last December, there, I had felt in love with an Egyptian man and he told me that he feel the same… He wants to marry me, he wants me to live with him in Egypt…
We have contact by phone or Internet every day.
I trusted him, but now, since I know this forum, I have some fears !!!
How can I know if he is sincere or not ? I’m going to see him in few days, maybe I will see what happen ! But if someone can help me…
These sugestions about warning tourists in regards with the different conceptions of Egypt in terms of certain behaviours - including sex reminded me of a very interesting point.
In Singapore - IF you are caught CHEWING GUM you are thrown in prison. That is advertized in Embassies.
Can you relate to the warning, IF you are caught being a sex tourist or if you have a quick marriage for sexual purposes in Egypt expect so...and so and so?
quote:
Originally posted by wacobaco:
Monica, r u serious ? of course u r kidding .. or if we apply ur suggestion..the government would seal Hurghada, Sharm and Dahab by red wax...and dollar would raise to reach 50 Egyptian pound at least..and we want find places in jail for those to-be-caught..then we'll be imposed to seek the help of hotels to find a place for all such prisoners and we may be forced then (under the allegation of lacking places) to jail two prisoners from different gender together in one room.. and i think they would die to be sentenced for live time..hahaha..this is me who is kidding this time..but wanna say something "Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls)"
quote:
Originally posted by MotherEgypt:
Dear if you truly love him Is it realy make a difference to you if you read some threads there some points i would like to explain
1) true love comes once or twice in a life time ,so please grab and hold on it
2)in all over the wotld there is resorts and if i can call it that way ,well let us call it Resorts morals and this you will find in turkey ,Egypt ,italy ,,,etc
finally ,,Resorts never show the character of the country itself and my little advise to you if you really wanna get to know about some countries i guess you have to take your tourist sun glasses off
get close to the people and stop judging them ,,just give love and you will gain love ,get to know their hopes and dreams
3)always people talk when they get hurt or feeling bad this why you will find a lots of negative comments in here as well as some positive ones but make sure there is a thousand of succesful relations with honest guys have not been published .
4 )just Take it as good as it gets
Good luck
Dear MotherEgypt!
U r doing the right thing ! By yr kind & always sencere words u r putting order in all this mess of thoughts & feelings!I am new here & frankly speaking I was rather scared by all this horrible stories of egyptian-foreign relations! any way if Monica brings into the forum her incrediable sense of humor, wise advices& new ideas, u bring the common sense that everywhere there r good & bad ppl & it is only up to us with whom to mix! u have very interesting point of view on things& i feel that this point of view is the only right in the endless talks about foreigner-egyption love!
Regards from Ukraine to all of u!
Just a girl with dreams!
( i`v never been to egypt by the way 
) dear friends , the only thing to all of u, who is trying really to help others: don`t be SO categorical in ur points of view& remeber we r all the same, children of God& no matter moslems, christians, buddhists or zaratushtri! we all love , hate, we feel pain & fly from happienes the same all over the world!please, have a look on what MotherEgypt wrote just few msgs above! I think it can be the healthy basis for any relations in the world!It's always nice to read kind words like those you wrote to MotherEgypt /seems like a very kind Egyptian man by the way/ and to me ( happy I made you smile)... I go through the threads every morning skimming quickly and try to contribute as fast and as best I can to go on with my working day, and do same late at night, so when I see people like you that are genuinely interested in Egypt it makes me realize that it's worth it contributing on this board, and I think of ways to make them love and respect Egypt in its entity regardless of all the other negative side stories, because after all.... all Egyptians should be in a way Ambassadors of Egypt everywhere they go! As you would represent your country at best etc...etc...
So, muhariba, please take a look at the 'competition' thread and you will find plenty of info on our beloved Egypt...if you'd like to start from page 12 you will get a grasp of what the thread is all about... because katrina, shot a few questions on page 12 - that I will be answering soon soon - that could give you a kind of a synopsis of what the thread is all about!
In the meantime, as I will be less active in the next 3 weeks...I hope you enjoy every moment as many of us do, when contributing or sharing.
Oh, did you know the meaning of your nick name in Arabic??? just for the record it means the 'smuggler' ah ah ah!! what are you smuggling today friend?
Looking forward to your posts!
Salam
Monica
quote:
Originally posted by muhariba:
assalamu aleikum! merhaba!hello!privet!
to all of u! yesterday while searching information about this mysterious country of paradoxes-egypt i got across this forum & for some hours with a great ineteres i was looking through ur lively conversation , my dear friends! it is a wise idea of making an organization for helping foreigners in ur country ! i think if in mine there was something like this many bad situations could be avoided& the openion about ukraine(i am ukrainian) all around the world would be different.& even by participating in such kind of forums u r already giving a friendly hand to thouse who r in love with egypt , like i am
Have a good day!with kind ppl around u!
Regards from Ukraine!
just a girl with dreams
p.s.by the way i badly need an advice about egypt!good, wise advice on how to be able to understand this country& ppl that live there!
i will write my story next time! it would be great if a can get friendly words from u on it!
thanx a lot for being so interesting people!i really enjoyed folowing ur thoughts!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 15 March 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Monica:
Dear Muhariba,It's always nice to read kind words like those you wrote to MotherEgypt /seems like a very kind Egyptian man by the way/ and to me ( happy I made you smile)... I go through the threads every morning skimming quickly and try to contribute as fast and as best I can to go on with my working day, and do same late at night, so when I see people like you that are genuinely interested in Egypt it makes me realize that it's worth it contributing on this board, and I think of ways to make them love and respect Egypt in its entity regardless of all the other negative side stories, because after all.... all Egyptians should be in a way Ambassadors of Egypt everywhere they go! As you would represent your country at best etc...etc...
So, muhariba, please take a look at the 'competition' thread and you will find plenty of info on our beloved Egypt...if you'd like to start from page 12 you will get a grasp of what the thread is all about... because katrina, shot a few questions on page 12 - that I will be answering soon soon - that could give you a kind of a synopsis of what the thread is all about!In the meantime, as I will be less active in the next 3 weeks...I hope you enjoy every moment as many of us do, when contributing or sharing.
Oh, did you know the meaning of your nick name in Arabic??? just for the record it means the 'smuggler' ah ah ah!! what are you smuggling today friend?
Looking forward to your posts!
Salam
Monica
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 15 March 2004).]
Dear Monica!
U`ve made me think 2day that I am not a "taleeba mugtahida" (about this muhariba)I ran to arabic -russian dictionary to check how could i be mistaken & alhamdullah I was not. just the latin transliteration of two words appears the same ãÍÇÑÈÉ&ãåÇÑÈÉ !anyway thanks to U i`ve learnt another new arabic word!U r useful in all situations , dear Monica!
Can I ask u for advice? I`v met already 100`s of questions like this here on forum , so i`ll be the 101st.
Can u .pls. advice me , where can i find work in egypt with my russian , english& poor arabic? I am a student of the faculty of orientology(everyone mistake with ornitology !), finishing my MA in june& i am ill with egypt, arabic language & arabic culture.egyptomania LOL!i really love my speciality & i dream after becoming good in it to build a bridge of communication between arabic countries & eastern europe(we r not this much bad here as u can think ). coz there r lots of misunderstandings here as well about middle east& arabic countries. but what i`v found after continues investigations is that arabic culture described in books to poor students of the faculty of orientology is something very far from reall life of arabic society so i know that i don`t know anything-it was wise told!& my wanting to work in egypt is not to get fun or big money( i won`t get anyway). i want to be able to study the language& to feel the life of an arabic society from inside. to become one of u, to think like u . to do like u!& more over egypt is a dream sinse childhood !so...i really need an advice!
ÔßÑÇ!
ãÚ ÇáÓáÇãÉ íÇ ÃÕÏÞÇÁì
Regards from Ukraine,
just a girl with dreams
a bit of pressure on the H....What I suggest you do, is get in touch with the American University of Cairo and you can find their link if you make a search. Browse and see what they do, what they offer what type of programs they have etc..etc..check the staff link, and you will find many email addresses, and then get in touch with people that way, and inquire and ask for advice.
That's what I can think about right now, in regards with your particular background. and who knows you might find a job there or even better, I encourage to make a proposal of a new totally innovative position, tailored made just for you, that they can probably benefit from! I am a dreamer too, but this is how I function:
I have a dream/idea, I write the script/proposal, I set a date, and then it's showtime/take steps towards objective, and I walk right in it/action! Try it!!! Most of the times it worked with me. When it did not.. well you guessed, I changed the script!
Maybe others can give you more ideas, but in the meantime try that, and if I think of something else I'll get back to you in a few weeks!
I thank you for being genuinely interested in our beloved Egypt; and I admire your intelligence for wanting to understand the culture the right way!
WAIT, I just thought of something else, would you consider giving Russian lessons as a side line in Cairo for example? are you qualified for that? If yes you can give your name to the Russian Embassy in that respect, or as a translator if you qualify ... and you could make a bit of money this way!
Best of luck friend, and remember an objective is only but a dream...with a date!!!
Salamate to you too!
Monica
Thanks for your trust by the way
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 15 March 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Monica:
Actually muhariba, the word that means 'someone who battles' is pronounced this way: 'mohhar bah'...What I suggest you do, is get in touch with the American University of Cairo and you can find their link if you make a search. Browse and see what they do, what they offer what type of programs they have etc..etc..check the staff link, and you will find many email addresses, and then get in touch with people that way, and inquire and ask for advice.
That's what I can think about right now, in regards with your particular background. and who knows you might find a job there or even better, I encourage to make a proposal of a new totally innovative position, tailored made just for you, that they can probably benefit from! I am a dreamer too, but this is how I function:
I have a dream/idea, I write the script/proposal, I set a date, and then it's showtime/take steps towards objective, and I walk right in it/action! Try it!!! Most of the times it worked with me. When it did not.. well you guessed, I changed the script!Maybe others can give you more ideas, but in the meantime try that, and if I think of something else I'll get back to you in a few weeks!
I thank you for being genuinely interested in our beloved Egypt; and I admire your intelligence for wanting to understand the culture the right way!
WAIT, I just thought of something else, would you consider giving Russian lessons as a side line in Cairo for example? are you qualified for that? If yes you can give your name to the Russian Embassy in that respect, or as a translator if you qualify ... and you could make a bit of money this way!
Best of luck friend, and remember an objective is only but a dream...with a date!!!
Salamate to you too!
Monica
Thanks for your trust by the way
[This message has been edited by Monica
(edited 15 March 2004).]
Dear Monica!
thank u very -very much for ur kind advice! Actualy i was already nearly giving up !
And thank u for the smll lesson of arabic!
Take care all of u!
And why none is telling a word about ur brilliant idea of foreigners-egyptian society??? Is it going to be just one of ideas that is going to die beeing still just an idea???
There r ppl who need u & is it not a reason to continue???
Regards from ukraine. Here the spring came at last!
Just a girl with dreams!
P.S. And again-Monica _SHUKRANNNN!!!!!!!!!!