Well all those (Absolutely politically correct descriptions) are somehow true, and I wouldn’t even try to deny it, we all read the post about MR MG the surgeon from Alexandra, ( of course the hoist topic ever hit the waves the infamous :
Does anyone chat with a doctor from Alexandria? post),
The black list black list for egyptian man in hurghada?
Holiday romance turned soure Question for egyptian women and When it ended a love......
Egyptian men - Scam artists pictures-of interest to women.
The excuse egyptian man use for being unfaithful to women
Need Advice about my Egyptian Guy story!
Prince or Frog?
how long will egyptian man pretend..??
American Gal In Love W/ Egyptian Man 
Topic: Words of Wisdom Needed
Orfi, ORFI,
and the list goes on and on
But my concern is more related to all those description based on romance, and the relation between HIM ( the BAD Egyptian Guy and his POOR foreign lady).
Why is it that this Man is getting all this bad publicity, I don’t know, but I know one thing, Egyptian men deserve nothing of all that, and I am speaking out of experience , I AM ONE
What makes an Egyptian man so desirable by foreign ladies?
It is very simple, it not his handsome boyish looks, his killer Bodds, his fantastic bezique, or his extreme masculinity (some will disagree with me on that) , it is simply his hart and his passion,
Egyptian man regardless of his real profession or his social background is still descendant from this farmer who planted this soil for ions, and have developed a very strong bond to the land he is living on, for some this attachment have been materialized in his property, his money, his women, his house, and mostly HIS family, and when you are talking about a culture that have the family as the most valuable asset a man could have, and he would put all his power into enriching this family and keep it as long as possible, ( of course with the accessional sellout who is welling to jump out of the boat at the first sign of trouble, or those who cant wait to leave everything behind), aided with general modesty and sometimes good manners, and even religious tendency, makes this EGYPTIAN guy the perfect family man , who is well know to be more faithful to his family that many other non Egyptian men, and would give up his life for this family of his, plus when it to commitment, an Egyptian man would not hesitate to get married and settle down with the right person, not because he is an angle , but because he have been programmed to seek a stable family lifestyle from the Egyptian culture itself.
Why Egyptian man loves foreign girls?
Ask any Egyptian woman and you will find no answer, although the answer is in her,
Every culture has its merits and demerits in its women, general characteristics that cannot be mistaken although exceptions exist, for example ( only for the sake of the argument and NOT out of experience):
Japanese, Korean, and Chinese women tend to be more obedient, and easily adjust to their husbands habits, and not every man likes that of course.
Germen women, are very organized, determined, and are capable of running a house like a clock.
British women are very faithful, traditional, and a man can almost expect what she is going to do next, Latin women are hot, passionate and extremely jalousie, and sometimes their outbursts are unpredictable.
American women are independent, librated, adventurous.
All of them are nice, gentile, funny , romantic, cheerful, compassionat, lovely, pretty , sweet, adorable, and to die for.
Before any one get mad at me for saying that I remind you that all those characteristics war made only for the sake of the argument, and the reason that this argument was even brought up, is because of the Egyptian man of course (our main subject), who would prefer a foreign girl to an Egyptian one, every Egyptian man have his reasons of course, but still, there is a common reason for all of them, that is the Egyptian guy found something in a foreign women that he could have not found in an Egyptian one.
Those of you who have lived in Egypt long enough may have notices the tremendous social changes that is happening almost daily and how hard it became for an Egyptian couple to get married, customs and traditions that demands complete economical readiness, regardless of the actual capabilities, laws that punishes the man for divorce by burdening him with eternal alimony, and the loss of his residency, marriage have been transformed lately into a burdening financial constitution, not a bondage between a man and a woman, and some women and men are looking at it only from this view, with the growing competition between pears amongst Egyptian females, they started demanding more and more, because the more they get , the more they worth
Once an Egyptian friend of mine, told me “I will never waste a minute of my life on an Egyptian woman” and his reason was astonishing (all Egyptian girls will hate that), he said “they are arrogant, demanding, needy, materialistic, and will give you no love unless they give her a lot of "something" in advance, they demand the huge wedding, and they don’t care for the honeymoon, she will ask you to sell your car to buy her a 2 carats diamond ring, she will use your kids to control you . She will nag, and always complain about you failure to advance in your career even if you are the prime minister, and she will always try to look as if she just accepted to marry a frog who refused to turn into a prince, and finally when you die, she will not drop a tear being so afraid to ruin her makeup)
When an Egyptian couple decides to get married and the in-laws start burdening the Egyptian guy with a lot demands that could be very hard for him, the girl’s defense is (instead of making it easy for him) “isn’t that how much I worth to you “or “this is what my cousin got when she was getting married and I am not less than her”
It is a very DARK picture of reality, but nether less, it have some truth in it, and for most Egyptian guys, even those who have never been in this situation, they still know that that is a very big possibility ( because of what they see happening around them), and they decide not to invest there emotions and time in a relationship that might drag for years and result in nothing, and suddenly here comes the foreign girl with all her beautiful characteristics, independent, outgoing , truthful, understanding, cheerful, helpful, loving, giving, open minded, and mostly not bound to those useless traditions.
Do the math and you will instantly know what the result would be, the Egyptian woman is out of the picture, and the foreign one in, compare and decide for yourself, why should I be with someone whom I may not know for sure if she is with me because I was the only stupid guy who put up with her ridicules demands, or should I be with someone who is with me only for me, not for anything else??
Why so many forging girls have been hurt by Egyptian guys?
Culture clashes? Probably
Obsession? Could be
Underestimating?
“I’ll make a nice man out of this savage one!! “It does happen
“I’ll teach him the ways of the western man” deny it if you want
“He cannot resist my blue eyes” only when she does have blue eyes and she is an experienced hypnotist
“He is just an edit who is also a good catch”
“I don’t understand his background, but who cares the sex is good”
“I am superior to any Egyptian woman, even him”
“Is he too proud to admit that he loves a forging girl?”
“Was he just playing? Or was it only a holiday romance?”
“Does he think that I am just a foreign slut?”
“he wants a mistress, but not a partner”
I don’t know. You tell me
All input and criticism are welcomed
[This message has been edited by welsafty (edited 19 August 2004).]
It is such a great post. Thanks for sharing. Finally there is some truth being told, however it may seem subjective to some.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
WOW, welsaftyIt is usch a great post. Thanks for sharing. Finally there is some truth being told, however it may seem subjective to some.
[This message has been edited by welsafty (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
LOL, yes I admit it, but I cant help it it's all about me
[This message has been edited by welsafty (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by arx:
well, as an egyptian-american, i can tell you that at least here and some other places i've been, almost all foreign women want absolutely nothing to do with a "filthy arab". you have to keep in mind the ones that go to egypt are likely willing to get involved with one. it's a totally different story outside egypt!
Why do you say such things, Arx?
Welsafty, are you married or intend to get married? What were/are you "after" - an Egyptian or a foreign woman? Just a question from my side, if it's too personal don't answer.
Also, thanks for describing me as very organized, determined etc..... Yes its totally true (how do you know?!) but sometimes I am wondering if I am running the household (+ kids) or the household runs me? 
quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily:Welsafty, are you married or intend to get married? What were/are you "after" - an Egyptian or a foreign woman? Just a question from my side, if it's too personal don't answer.
Also, thanks for describing me as very organized, determined etc..... Yes its totally true (how do you know?!) but sometimes I am wondering if I am running the household (+ kids) or the household runs me?
No it isnt to personal, I am unmarried, and I hope one day I would get married, and it doesnt matter whither she would be egyptian or forign, ( well american or canadian wouldnt be forign to me since I am american as well) but the one thing I know that I will never be with someone who would look at what I have or dont have. If she doesnt want me for WHAT I AM, she doesnt exist
I was very interested in your description of the problems of Egyptian marriage, obviously some of your comments apply more to the well off rather than the poor but is reminds me of a coment my husband made. I asked for a silver wedding ring, I did not want flashy, loads of money etc, I just wanted his ring. I said like an Egyptian girl would wear and he laughed at me at said an Egyptian girl would want gold. I notice with the preparatiosn for weddings these are mainly materlistic rather than emotional or spiritual. I know there was a period in English history where bridegrooms were assesed on their income rather than their personal attributes (read Pride and Prejudice).
One can hope that Egyptian society will likewise realise there is more to a man than his money. And actually starting of together and working towards goals can be more rewarding than having it all on a plate. Many a couple in the West look back on the early days when they had nothing and remark it was better then because there was emotional connection. I don't think there is any perfect way but it does seem a shame that some people can't get married just for economic reasons.
Thanks again for the post most interesting.
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
The comments made by Welsafty about the avarice of Egyptian women will offend a lot of them but directly re-enforce everything that the men in the family I lived with said. My partner's eldest brother is a guide and is now over thirty but has been saving for years to get a home together and buy the gold for his fiancee. He has had to redecorate the whole house for her not just their apartment. (The shell of which was built with my money).
I keep telling my ex that he should get married (I hope that it would get him out of my hair). He says he would - if I buy the gold. Strangely because he now has all the stuff that he got (lifted) from me the amount of gold that his prospective wives want is huge. They think he is a rich man and as he has a rich 'wife' already then they are going to share in it all. There is no morality there at all. The wilting little flowers propositioned him at every wedding we ever went to with pound signs spinning around in their eyes. Still it is perhaps understandable. If they are not going to get love they might as well get gold.
Arx had a point about Arabs overseas too. I have never considered myself racialyy prejudiced but although I might have become invovled with an Arab in England, I certainly would not have become involved with such a young one. It takes Luxor syndrome (brains falling out of the bum) to do that.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
It was interesting to note also that both Welsafty and Arx live in America not Egypt.
you got that one wrong to, always jumping to conclusions
think before you write 
quote:
Originally posted by akshar:....I said like an Egyptian girl would wear and he laughed at me at said an Egyptian girl would want gold. I notice with the preparatiosn for weddings these are mainly materlistic rather than emotional or spiritual. I know there was a period in English history where bridegrooms were assesed on their income rather than their personal attributes (read Pride and Prejudice).
One can hope that Egyptian society will likewise realise there is more to a man than his money. And actually starting of together and working towards goals can be more rewarding than having it all on a plate. Many a couple in the West look back on the early days when they had nothing and remark it was better then because there was emotional connection. I don't think there is any perfect way but it does seem a shame that some people can't get married just for economic reasons.
Akshar, we are all fully aware that there is a long tradition when the subject "Egyptian Marriage" come up.
Its kind of interesting and strange for us foreigners to see how many people get married in Egypt because of wealth and status. But I hope these people do like each other when committing to marriage - at least somehow in the beginning. It all does have more or less a taste of a "business deal".
I also believe the future bride has more and more to say - as times are changing - whether she wants to marry a particular man or not - at least in the higher-income class.
quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily:
I also believe the future bride has more and more to say - as times are changing - whether she wants to marry a particular man or not - at least in the higher-income class.
I think that is what happened in UK, gradually people realised that the economics weren't the most important thing and being united as a couple was. Took a while though.
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
I found this really interesting, and informative. I've been dating an Egyptian guy for 9 months now (I know many of you will say Egyptian men don't date) However he spent years in Europe and is more Western in his thinking than some. Something I always wondered though is why he was not interested in Egyptian women. He has several girls approach him, and always tells me, he says he's never been interested in Egyptian women.
Having read this post it makes much more sense to me now, as he wants to be with his partner for love and no other reason, but I always felt slightly threatened when he told me girls were after him when I wasn't there. After this post though and knowing my partner as I do, I now see he thinks along the lines of this post too, and Egyptian women just aren't for him
However, maybe it is better not to go into these affairs at all if you are afraid to be hurt, but than, you'll never know how good it feels to be loved (even for a short time) by an Egyptian Man.
Es Salam Aleikoum
: look at yourself, look at him and do the math. Why not just enjoy the exotic magic and then go back home carrying some 'blush-inducing' memories that does not require moving, asset liquidation, dragging kids to a different dimension, religion change and in general putting all the eggs in one basket. If we fall for the sweet (and bloody irresistible indeed ) yet superficial words without a strong background/culture/religion check the disaster sticks its ugly head with the disgusting winning smile on its face. What we see is what we get, so let's just open our beautiful eyes a little wider dear fellow princesses, starting today.
You have just described a classic case of a man desiring what he can't have. There are a number of men that wish to marry a woman in a particular social class but can't 'afford' her, and he becomes bitter for whatever reason. However there are literally millions of women with much lower financial demands that he won't even consider for a potential mate. Realistically speaking, only women from higher social classes have these large financial demands you speak of. Namely it's because they come from families that will object to them marrying someone in a lower social standing. And so many Egyptian men and women typically value their families input, where some westerners don't. So he knows that if he marries one of them, they are 10 times unlikely to judge him by his social standards, as cross-class marriages are very common in the west.
The small number of men that take women for their money is a very low class man, fortunate to meet a foreigner who is not judging him for what class he's in. But unfortunately he has taken advantage of it, rather than appreciate it. No decent man request money from women. Men are raised to become the head of the household, as such, he understands his position in the household. And usuall if the wife is making more money than him, he (a real man) will feel a role reversal and this won't be good for his ego, which is why MOST Egyptian men prefer to be the provider.
Some men realize that they will not be able to have a sexual relationship with an Egyptian woman without first getting married. This is why some have resorted to Orfi marriages, as the sexual frustration while waiting to afford marriages has become unbearable.
2 of my brothers married American women they met in college. Not because they couldn't 'afford' Egyptian wives, they are both well off. They married because they fell spiritually in love. And this is what marriage should be about. Not sex or money. I sincerely wish some of these foreigners that are serious about marriage if Egyptian men attract you, will learn to avoid these gigolo, touristic type that are after your money. Not saying he should be from a wealthy class,because some of them lack morals, but he should at least me a man brought up with good ethics and open-minded to you being more well off than him, for the marriage to work without his ego interfering.
Or..here is mine:
monica_february_2003@yahoo.com
Thanks!
quote:
Originally posted by Haqikah:
Let's be objective in our generalisations here Welsafty. 99% of Egyptian men, marry EGYPTIAN women. Only a very small percentage marry foreign women, and those that do have nothing to do with their ill feelings towards Egyptian women.You have just described a classic case of a man desiring what he can't have. There are a number of men that wish to marry a woman in a particular social class but can't 'afford' her, and he becomes bitter for whatever reason. However there are literally millions of women with much lower financial demands that he won't even consider for a potential mate. Realistically speaking, only women from higher social classes have these large financial demands you speak of. Namely it's because they come from families that will object to them marrying someone in a lower social standing. And so many Egyptian men and women typically value their families input, where some westerners don't. So he knows that if he marries one of them, they are 10 times unlikely to judge him by his social standards, as cross-class marriages are very common in the west.
The small number of men that take women for their money is a very low class man, fortunate to meet a foreigner who is not judging him for what class he's in. But unfortunately he has taken advantage of it, rather than appreciate it. No decent man request money from women. Men are raised to become the head of the household, as such, he understands his position in the household. And usuall if the wife is making more money than him, he (a real man) will feel a role reversal and this won't be good for his ego, which is why MOST Egyptian men prefer to be the provider.
Some men realize that they will not be able to have a sexual relationship with an Egyptian woman without first getting married. This is why some have resorted to Orfi marriages, as the sexual frustration while waiting to afford marriages has become unbearable.
2 of my brothers married American women they met in college. Not because they couldn't 'afford' Egyptian wives, they are both well off. They married because they fell spiritually in love. And this is what marriage should be about. Not sex or money. I sincerely wish some of these foreigners that are serious about marriage if Egyptian men attract you, will learn to avoid these gigolo, touristic type that are after your money. Not saying he should be from a wealthy class,because some of them lack morals, but he should at least me a man brought up with good ethics and open-minded to you being more well off than him, for the marriage to work without his ego interfering.
quote:
Originally posted by Haqikah:
Let's be objective in our generalisations here Welsafty. 99% of Egyptian men, marry EGYPTIAN women. Only a very small percentage marry foreign women, and those that do have nothing to do with their ill feelings towards Egyptian women.You have just described a classic case of a man desiring what he can't have. There are a number of men that wish to marry a woman in a particular social class but can't 'afford' her, and he becomes bitter for whatever reason. However there are literally millions of women with much lower financial demands that he won't even consider for a potential mate. Realistically speaking, only women from higher social classes have these large financial demands you speak of. Namely it's because they come from families that will object to them marrying someone in a lower social standing. And so many Egyptian men and women typically value their families input, where some westerners don't. So he knows that if he marries one of them, they are 10 times unlikely to judge him by his social standards, as cross-class marriages are very common in the west.
Are you proud of such class system? Do you approve it? It reminds pretty much the Indian society with their cast system.
This is 21st century...
Ana wsltny elresala beta3tek 3ashan a2dar ab3atlek 3ala el email, olealy ba2a ezay a2dar asa3dek?
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
Are you proud of such class system? Do you approve it? It reminds pretty much the Indian society with their cast system.
This is 21st century...
Katrina I did not create the class system, it was in place hundreds of years before my birth. It is nothing similar to the Indian caste system, it is not religious, it's social.
It's not a matter of pride, I don't look down on anyone, by their material wealth. I look at people for their hearts. Even wealthy people are evil, and not all are snobs.
quote:
Originally posted by Haqikah:
Katrina I did not create the class system, it was in place hundreds of years before my birth. It is nothing similar to the Indian caste system, it is not religious, it's social.It's not a matter of pride, I don't look down on anyone, by their material wealth. I look at people for their hearts. Even wealthy people are evil, and not all are snobs.
Social or religious -- does not matter. The outcome is similar and this is what matters.
Hundreds years ago... It is not to anyone's benefit to change. Upper class will always defend that as they derive benefits from that, excusing that this is a tradition. Convenient tradition.
Not a personal attack against you at all. You seem to be a very reasonable and open-minded person but....
How does the upper class exactly look into hearts of a lower class person if, say, an Egyptian man would never even talk to a woman say how helps around the house or a man who delivers something to your house except for giving instructions and orders? It is way beyond his class.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Why is there so much talk of class on this site. I am english.My Egyptian friend has asked me to marry him.We have been seeing each other for a year.I have met all his family and his friends.I love him more than I can tell you.Being older and better off than him is that a recipe for disaster.I dont give a damm.Without doubt he loves me but someone reading my story would think very differently.Personally I do not care about money,nice to have it,but to be in a relationship where you are number one is wonderful and all the money in the world cannot buy that.Give me a tent and a camel in the sahara and I would be happy with him.
Welcome to the real world. Class does not matter in the Western society relatively. It did in the 19th century. Maybe we should read history books to understand it
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
Social or religious -- does not matter. The outcome is similar and this is what matters.Hundreds years ago... It is not to anyone's benefit to change. Upper class will always defend that as they derive benefits from that, excusing that this is a tradition. Convenient tradition.
Not a personal attack against you at all. You seem to be a very reasonable and open-minded person but....
How does the upper class exactly look into hearts of a lower class person if, say, an Egyptian man would never even talk to a woman say how helps around the house or a man who delivers something to your house except for giving instructions and orders? It is way beyond his class.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]
Hi Katrina, I didn't take it as a personal attack, as anyone that knows me personally knows how heavily involved I'm in to charity and human rights. Although my family is considered wealthy, they have always been open-minded and heavy into charity.
The other people you desribe are snobs, they have them in every country not just Egypt. Some people thik material wealth defines them. I've seen it when I was in college in America- the gated communities with security to keep certain elements out. I've seen people pulled over by the police because they were a certain race and thought they had no business being in a certan neighborhood.
The social classes are worldwide whenever there is a capitalistic economy with limited resources, there will always be more people at the bottom of the economic pool.
It is easy for a westerner to look at developing countries like Egypt and judge their social systems. But you have to look at the bigger global picture. You live in countries very rich in natural resources, so it's easy to move from one class to the next. In Egypt its not the case. Resources are limited, the government is corrupt, national debt is high and foreign countries expoit Egyptian labor because they are willing to work for a fraction of what they would pay for labor in their own country. Then you have people the same people criticizing the social classes, complaining that their jobs are going overseas to less developed countries, threatening their own standard of living.
It's more apparent when you're living in a country with 30% unemployment to see the wide gap between social classes. But again resources are limited. But if more jobs and opportnities are created it could only be in the form of private foreign investment, then what happens as a result, you have people complaining that 'their' resources are going overseas. So no one is ever satisfied. Communism failed worldwide, socialism failed in Egypt, the result is a capitalistic economy that results in social classes.
Maybe one day Egypt will discover a gold mine or an oil field, and our countrymen will be just as well off as the gulf arabs and westerners rich is resources, but until the wealthy are striving to hold on to what they have, and the poor are struggling to get more. It's just the way it is, Katrina. We are not a rich country like the USA, and if the limited wealth was distributed through out the country we would be back in a socialist era, that has already proven unsucessful. I hope you understand.
Don't listen to exaggerations about wealthy people, they are not all snobs. Some of them are very giving, and contribute a great deal to charity. From my own perspective I find the middle class to be more snobbish than the wealthy. Or as we like to call them- the newly wealthy. The type that can't stand the site of poverty because it's a harsh reminder to them of where they came from.
[This message has been edited by Haqikah (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Haqikah:
Hi Katrina, I didn't take it as a personal attack, as anyone that knows me personally knows how heavily involved I'm in to charity and human rights. Although my family is considered wealthy, they have always been open-minded and heavy into charity.The other people you desribe are snobs, they have them in every country not just Egypt. Some people thik material wealth defines them. I've seen it when I was in college in America- the gated communities with security to keep certain elements out. I've seen people pulled over by the police because they were a certain race and thought they had no business being in a certan neighborhood.
The social classes are worldwide whenever there is a capitalistic economy with limited resources, there will always be more people at the bottom of the economic pool.
It is easy for a westerner to look at developing countries like Egypt and judge their social systems. But you have to look at the bigger global picture. You live in countries very rich in natural resources, so it's easy to move from one class to the next. In Egypt its not the case. Resources are limited, the government is corrupt, national debt is high and foreign countries expoit Egyptian labor because they are willing to work for a fraction of what they would pay for labor in their own country. Then you have people the same people criticizing the social classes, complaining that their jobs are going overseas to less developed countries, threatening their own standard of living.
It's more apparent when you're living in a country with 30% unemployment to see the wide gap between social classes. But again resources are limited. But if more jobs and opportnities are created it could only be in the form of private foreign investment, then what happens as a result, you have people complaining that 'their' resources are going overseas. So no one is ever satisfied. Communism failed worldwide, socialism failed in Egypt, the result is a capitalistic economy that results in social classes.
Maybe one day Egypt will discover a gold mine or an oil field, and our countrymen will be just as well off as the gulf arabs and westerners rich is resources, but until the wealthy are striving to hold on to what they have, and the poor are struggling to get more. It's just the way it is, Katrina. We are not a rich country like the USA, and if the limited wealth was distributed through out the country we would be back in a socialist era, that has already proven unsucessful. I hope you understand.
Don't listen to exaggerations about wealthy people, they are not all snobs. Some of them are very giving, and contribute a great deal to charity. From my own perspective I find the middle class to be more snobbish than the wealthy. Or as we like to call them- the newly wealthy. The type that can't stand the site of poverty because it's a harsh reminder to them of where they came from.
[This message has been edited by Haqikah (edited 19 August 2004).]
Haqikah
Thank you very much for explanations. I understand what you are saying. However, it still reminds me of this: upper class Egyptians look down upon their lower class countrymen just like Gulf Arabs look down upon at Egyptians. Not all, but on average. It is sad to see that.
I would like to talk to you maybe even offline about various topics not just this
Email at katrina_52500@yahoo.com if you'd like
quote:
Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Why is there so much talk of class on this site. I am english.My Egyptian friend has asked me to marry him.We have been seeing each other for a year.I have met all his family and his friends.I love him more than I can tell you.Being older and better off than him is that a recipe for disaster.I dont give a damm.Without doubt he loves me but someone reading my story would think very differently.Personally I do not care about money,nice to have it,but to be in a relationship where you are number one is wonderful and all the money in the world cannot buy that.Give me a tent and a camel in the sahara and I would be happy with him.
Sorry I am going to be a little hard on you here...it is just too easy to say you don't give a dam about money when you have got it...try saying it if you have never had it...unless you have been there we don't know what it is like. You can take all the steps you are about to knowing if it all goes wrong you still have a safety net in a rich Western country. I am sure you have all the right feelings to be taking this step and I do wish you luck but just now you are coming at everything with a mind that is 100% western. Egyptain men often say they like western women for their open minds but lets be honest unless we are prepared to start looking at things in a very different way our minds are only open to westen values and western ways of thinking.
quote:
Originally posted by Haqikah:
Ya MonicaAna wsltny elresala beta3tek 3ashan a2dar ab3atlek 3ala el email, olealy ba2a ezay a2dar asa3dek?
quote:
Originally posted by Penny:
Sorry I am going to be a little hard on you here...it is just too easy to say you don't give a dam about money when you have got it...try saying it if you have never had it...unless you have been there we don't know what it is like. You can take all the steps you are about to knowing if it all goes wrong you still have a safety net in a rich Western country. I am sure you have all the right feelings to be taking this step and I do wish you luck but just now you are coming at everything with a mind that is 100% western. Egyptain men often say they like western women for their open minds but lets be honest unless we are prepared to start looking at things in a very different way our minds are only open to westen values and western ways of thinking.
Penny, maybe I am wrong but if so tell me. Not only what you say is right, but it seems to me that it is the western woman who adopts 100%. You never see any Egyptian men trying to understand anything about the culture of a woman he marries. You see western women who try very hard to learn and adopt to the Egyptian way whether it is logical or stupid, because the argument is always not about what is logical but "this is how it is". Take it or leave it. It is not about a blend. it is about 100% Egyptian, whether is is good or not. It is my perception on average. If it is not true, you can say.
Gege, you may be very surprised that your boyfriend/financee says and acts one way in the West, but you will see a difference once you are in Egypt.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
Penny, maybe I am wrong but if so tell me. Not only what you say is right, but it seems to me that it is the western woman who adopts 100%. You never see any Egyptian men trying to understand anything about the culture of a woman he marries. You see western women who try very hard to learn and adopt to the Egyptian way whether it is logical or stupid, because the argument is always not about what is logical but "this is how it is". Take it or leave it. It is not about a blend. it is about 100% Egyptian, whether is is good or not. It is my perception on average. If it is not true, you can say.Gege, you may be very surprised that your boyfriend/financee says and acts one way in the West, but you will see a difference once you are in Egypt.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 19 August 2004).]
Dear Katrina
If a Western women marries an Egyptian man and chooses to live in his country then yes she has to make far many more compromises than he does because she has got to live by the culture and social rules of that society. If she does not then she disrespects her husband and you can be sure the relationship will be short lived. However what I find is than within the walls of our home I am very much more free to just be myself and we talk and discuss between us all sort of issues and culture from both viewpoints. There is deinitely not a take or leave it attitude and my husband will expect visitors to our home to adapt to my wishes and ways...he just has a lovely way of asking and people really don't mind.
My husband's mind is definitely more 'closed' to new ideas and ways of thinking than mine is but then he did not grow up in a western society so why should I expect otherwise and so often when I really think and look at his viewpoint I find in fact it is me that is also set in my ways.
I think western women often have a way of trying the contol their men and if this is your way then you will find big problems with an Egyptian man. If you have ever watched a woman doing this though it is very demeening to the man and often leads to their emasculation. Give me a man that is a true man any day and as long as I trust him I have no problem letting go of the reigns.
Really as long as you do not find you are compromising so much that you are loosing your identily as a person then there is usually so much gained from the relationship if the man is like my husband he truly appreciates the adjustments you make.Many of those adjustments actually turn out to enhance your life rather than restrict it... it just depends how you look at things.
Penny
I do not want to sound harsh. I do wish you happiness especially knowing that your first marriage was not great. You do deserve happiness like many women do. But do you really think a man 20 years junior can love a much older woman for what she is? Why? Because of common interests, values?
There are many reverse cases when young girls marry men twice their age. There are very few cases like that. It would be great if your case is one of those rare cases, but, please, read many stories here, study the culture here on ES, ask your financee many direct questions to either be sure or to prevent a larger shock later.
quote:
Originally posted by arx:
well, as an egyptian-american, i can tell you that at least here and some other places i've been, almost all foreign women want absolutely nothing to do with a "filthy arab". you have to keep in mind the ones that go to egypt are likely willing to get involved with one. it's a totally different story outside egypt!
That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?
quote:
Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?
this is why I asked the same question. I would like to see an explanation as I do live in the US. Maybe just a bad experience or something like that?
quote:
Originally posted by arx:
I don't think you can generalize here. My husband is Iranian and we have endured a lot of prejudice. He doesn't tell anyone where he is from anymore unless we know the people really well. You know all that Axis of evil stuff.
Sami
I have met people who view Arabs as filthy and with no exception they were uneducated uninformed and people whom I had no desire of ever knowing but our paths crossed at one point or another. I’m often asked where I'm from and I look them straight in the eyes and answer "EGYPT"....it's that simple.
Sami, I've never lived in the US, I live in the 53d state: Canada.
If it ever came down to me having to avoid telling anyone where I'm from, I would leave this country and never look back.
It is a matter of strength of character, if you bend down they'll kick you just becasue your down. I will never understand how people accept to live in fear.
quote:
Originally posted by Sami16:
well, as an egyptian-american, i can tell you that at least here and some other places i've been, almost all foreign women want absolutely nothing to do with a "filthy arab". you have to keep in mind the ones that go to egypt are likely willing to get involved with one. it's a totally different story outside egypt!
I have never "Lived" in the US but have been there many times and you are completely off.....where exactly do you live and how long have you been there?
[This message has been edited by elmagnoon (edited 20 August 2004).]
The second quote that you have attributed to me is not mine. If you read my post, you will see that I told you where I live. I am not Egyptian-American. I am Irish American married to an Iranian. I have lived in the US all my life with the exception of the three years that I lived in Europe.
My Husband is very proud of his Iranian heritage. He is also a very private person and doesn't feel that he has to tell everyone everything. The people that ask us his nationality are people that we usually know. I am also proud of my husband's heritage. His family has been wonderful to us and I want my children to be proud of their Iranian heritage. My husband doesn't look Middle Eastern. People know that he has an accent and from our last name, they think that we are Italian. My husband has blue eyes and is fair skinned. His mother was also light skinned.
I am sorry if you have visited places here and have been treated poorly. I wish that there wasn't prejudice but there is. We have experienced horrible prejudice in our last neighborhood and then we moved here and the people are wonderful. But this is a very educated multi-ethnic neighborhood. There are good people here and their are bad just like in Egypt.Right now I am sure that there are a lot of Egyptians and Arabs that feel Americans are filth.
Sami
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
Japanese, Korean, and Chinese women tend to be more obedient, and easily adjust to their husbands habits, and not every man likes that of course.
Germen women, are very organized, determined, and are capable of running a house like a clock.
British women are very faithful, traditional, and a man can almost expect what she is going to do next, Latin women are hot, passionate and extremely jalousie, and sometimes their outbursts are unpredictable.
American women are independent, librated, adventurous.
All of them are nice, gentile, funny , romantic, cheerful, compassionat, lovely, pretty , sweet, adorable, and to die for.
quote:
Originally posted by Ge Ge:
Penny I have no intention of controlling my fiancee niether would I want to. Marriage is a partnership it is all about compromising.Although it does not matter to us where we live ny fiancee is quite happy to live in Egypt or in England and I am sure he would have no problems.Because my values are no different to his.He respects me and I him. I am not a western woman who was born"rich". In fact I come from a very poor background but I got off my backside and did something about it.I have worked very hard all my life and built up a business,I do not take for granted what I have on the contrary I count my blessings every day.Yes money gives you a very comfortable life but without love in it you are not complete.I have spent a great deal of time in Egypt so I think I know the culture well. I like the way I am looked after and cared about it is so refreshing. My eyes are wide open and I have no illusions.My marriage failed after 27 years so there are no guarentees in life.But one should not let an opportunity of happiness pass them by because of a difference in culture,
GEGE I do wish you all the luck in the world and hope it works. You certainly have the right attitude and have your eyes open and I am sure you have read all the horror stories here. They give us all panic attacks from time to time! Regardless of religion, culture status, at the end of the day it all comes down to the two individual people. Do they love and respect each other to work through the difficulties ahead. If you are the sort of person who digs in and makes it work then it will. In my three years of marriage I have come up against many many hurdles but at the end of the day I love my husband enough to work through them and stick with it but, without doubt it has been me that has make more compromises...why? because I am living in his country, his society. All I can say is I am more happy for the changes I have made and lost nothing as a person by those changes. Just have a think about the changes you will have to make to fit in and be respected by this society and then ask yourself what changes has he got to make. You will see it is out of balance but so what? Look at what you get back in return. You have already spoke about how you get taken care of/looked after. yes it is wonderful.
I do admit be being a bit cynical where there are big age gaps simply because of what I witness before my eyes every day in Sharm. The issue of children is a big one and I think would be my biggest worry in your shoes.
All the best
Penny
quote:
Originally posted by Sami16:
I agree with Katrina. I live in Michigan less than an hour from Dearborn, the largest Arabic Community in the US. There are three Arab families in my neighborhood. They are wonderful people and we all get along. There are numerous Arab kids in my son's High School. There are no racial incidences. We lived in Chicago for two years. There were several women where I worked that were married to Arabs. A lot depends on where you live. If it is an educated area then people will tend to look on Arabs more favorably. I don't think you can generalize here. My husband is Iranian and we have endured a lot of prejudice. He doesn't tell anyone where he is from anymore unless we know the people really well. You know all that Axis of evil stuff.
Sami
Hi Sami, nice to meet a fellow Michigan resident. We own a CPA firm in Dearborn, my husband is Lebanese. We have experienced more prejudice when we are out of Michigan especially at the air ports. But you're correct, there is a strong unity amongst the Arab community in Michigan.
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by welsafty:
[b]LOL, yes I admit it, but I cant help it it's all about me
[/B][/QUOTE]
Why Katrina? Did it make you feel better about yourself?? I bet it did. Hate to disappoint you though.. not all egyptian women are like that.
quote:
Originally posted by Egyptianese:
Why Katrina? Did it make you feel better about yourself?? I bet it did. Hate to disappoint you though.. not all egyptian women are like that.
NO it did not. I simply was joking. I do not need to compare myself to anybody to feel better. I feel good about myself without it. BUT Why should I have flattered the author? So I joked. Did not you get it? I have nothing against Egyptian women. I know a few very good ones in real life. No need to take it so seriously to make yourself feel better
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 20 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?
Could it be a similar situation to the egyptian men and women who appear welcoming and friendly while silently thinking "western slut"?
Or are both simply generalisations which actually do not reflect the truth
quote:
Originally posted by Dalia:
You wrote an interesting post, but this kind of stereotyping is just awful.
yes I agree with you, if it was stereotyping.
I only said that that was an uneducated example, and many times I have wrote that this is not 100% true not even 70%, and that was ONLY made for the sake of the argument.
I understand that I may have angered you, but you shouldn’t be upset at all, you are an Egyptian woman you are nothing like I was talking about, you will never burden a guy with ridicules demands, you will not take without giving, and you will start with him from his starting point, you wont ask for a huge useless wedding, or a 200,000 wedding gown, and not care if the honey moon is in a 2 star bed a breakfast hotel in SHUBRA. You will never blame him for marrying you and destroy any hopes for a pleasant life, and you will never think that you are better than foreign women.... right??!!
If you won’t do all that, then you are not Egyptian or you are just one of a kind that I just have to get to know better, are you single ??
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
Could it be a similar situation to the egyptian men and women who appear welcoming and friendly while silently thinking "western slut"?Or are both simply generalisations which actually do not reflect the truth
The truth is in the eye of the beholder, yes there western sluts, but there is also Egyptian sluts (and if you don’t believe me! Just walk the streets, or go to any social club in Cairo) and honestly I prefer western sluts to Egyptians, simply because when there is a western slut she admits it and make no secret out of it
but most Egyptian sluts I knew, always try to pretend they are not, and tell you, no I am actually a saint but you miss understood me.
if you are what you are and not denying it I would respect you even if you are the slutiest slut I have ever met, but if you want people to tell you are a saint while you are not, then you will get no respect from me at all
Everyone, please tell me what would you do with a slut that wants to be treated as if she is the virgin “Marry”??
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
If you won’t do all that, then you are not Egyptian or you are just one of a kind that I just have to get to know better, are you single ??
And I'm single but not looking.
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
Could it be a similar situation to the egyptian men and women who appear welcoming and friendly while silently thinking "western slut"?Or are both simply generalisations which actually do not reflect the truth
Of course I don't know what each and every Egyptian thinks. But what I know is that when we talk in our "inner sanctum" the general feeling is that foreigners are just different! They are not worse or better (well a lot of people think they are better), they are just not like "us". So I guess that Egyptians do have a certain kind of indifferent tolerance to other cultures. I have never heard of the western slut stereotype before I came to ES. Of course everyone here has this idea that western women will have sex with anything, but amazingly very few think that this entails bitchiness, simply because you can't judge a westerner like you would an Egyptian.
Shareen where did you get this idea that Egyptians (or some of them) are double faced this way?
quote:
Originally posted by Dalia:
And I'm single but not looking.
Shoot 
unlucky me 
quote:
Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Of course I don't know what each and every Egyptian thinks. But what I know is that when we talk in our "inner sanctum" the general feeling is that foreigners are just different! They are not worse or better (well a lot of people think they are better), they are just not like "us". So I guess that Egyptians do have a certain kind of indifferent tolerance to other cultures. I have never heard of the western slut stereotype before I came to ES. Of course everyone here has this idea that western women will have sex with anything, but amazingly very few think that this entails bitchiness, simply because you can't judge a westerner like you would an Egyptian.Shareen where did you get this idea that Egyptians (or some of them) are double faced this way?
Easy answer Kimo.... personal experience and numerous references both here and on other forums. Cant remember who said what, and sadly, my online time takes second place to my real life, so I dont have the time to search for them. Personally, it doesnt worry me. I know who I am, and if others choose not to get to know me and want to lump me in with the tourist sluts, fine.. its their choice. The only people who's opinion matters to me are those who take the time to know the real me.
quote:
Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Of course everyone here has this idea that western women will have sex with anything, but amazingly very few think that this entails bitchiness, simply because you can't judge a westerner like you would an Egyptian.
Listen, this is very insulting. Do you think there are no western women with ideals and values that actually would not have sex witn "anybody" or as you said "anything". Did it ever occr that there are western women who do not have sex before they are married either or do you judge westerners by stupid movies you watch while you have actually never been to say USA specifically? many can have just as good moral fiber as your own Egyptian women, no different, and perhaps even much better than many Egyptians may have themselves? And please do not feed us fairy tales about mass virgnity in Egypt, either.
As pointed above, you have your own women who would have sex with anything or sell themselves for good chunk of dowry. Actually I heard the same from Egyptians I know personally.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 21 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
Katrina
I do wish you would read what is written. Kimo was simply saying what the perceptions are in general, much the same as western people are fed the perception that all egyptian women are virgin when they marry and all egyptian men are gigolos.
No-one is insulting anyone.
We all know that not all egyptian men are gigolos, and not all egyptian women are virgin, and all egyptians know that movies are always different from reality. But we in the west DO have a different lifestyle, we DO allow sex before marriage, we DO live together without being married. So it is inevitable we will generally be viewed differently and assumptions that we will ALL do the same are also inevitable.
Shareen,
1. Not all do allow sex before marriage in the West
2. Not all live together before marriage
Actually my own parents do not allow 2) and they do not respect 1). They are Western. My parents are not the only ones.
3. this is what was written:
"Of course everyone here has this idea that western women will have sex with anything". Is this the reflection of what you wrote even if somebody does live together before marriage? NO! This is insulting. What you described was the fact but usually these are committed relationships and people oftentimes are engaged when they live with each other, they do not live and sleep with "anything" and "anybody".
4. BTW, many Egyptians themselves when abraod do much worse than Westerners themselves when restrictions are removed.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 22 August 2004).]
Surely we should all want to have reasonable, intelligent debate even if we agree to disagree.
quote:
Originally posted by Shareen:
Katrina
Where did I say ALL? I said we could if we wanted to. Personally I dont sleep around, but I do know many who will sleep with anything. Perceptions such as Kimo is talking about are generalisations. We should be no more insulted than the egyptian men who are generalised as gigolos. Or the egyptian women who are generalised as despising all foreign women.
Its all generalisations and you should not be taking these conversations so personally. Put your point of view forward in a way which encourages good debate, not in a way which will only invite the insulters on this forum.Surely we should all want to have reasonable, intelligent debate even if we agree to disagree.
I do not take such statements as Kimo made Peronally against me. Not at all. But it is disgusting to read about stereotypes of such grotesque proportions about western people. When people talk about "Egy gigolos" (I never knew such thing existed before ES, either)it is limited to a particular group and regions in Egypt, not "egyptian men", while the statement made by Kimo was "western women". I came with a good attitude to ES and I did debate for a long time, I never knew how a westerner is perceived reagrdless of personality and indivudal qualities. Honestly, my life revolves around a US top school (#1 in finance), I do not even see a lot of what is West is so "known" for, so no, I do not want to debate with people who have a double standard and hypocracy. It is a losing battle. For that matter alone, I do not believe I do want to debate on ES at all.
Katrina, touchy touchy feely feely poke poke!!! For God's/gods'/goodness' sake ... Forget it!
So bottom line, is if you don't care what people think of you in the west, why should you care what people think of you in another country. Especially what people think of you on the internet. I've been called worst names in real life, and I won't waste any times conducting in polls worrying about what people THAT DON'T KNOW ME PERSONALLY, think. (as Shareen just pointed out)
quote:
Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Shareen if you say you feel it then it has to be true. Of course I wasn't asking about ES references (God knows there are many of these), I was talking about real life. Maybe I was talking about one of those points where Cairo and Luxor differ, maybe I don't exactly know every type of Egyptian. In any case, sorry you felt stereotyped this way.Katrina, touchy touchy feely feely poke poke!!! For God's/gods'/goodness' sake ... Forget it!
Kimo, thank you for the apology, but it really wasnt necessary. I dont care if I am stereotyped, I know who I am, and I dont take it personally.
But you know, you are right when you talk about the difference between Cairo and Luxor. It is very different in both places, and I do believe the stereotyping is much more prevalent in Luxor and the other resort areas. Cairo is much more cosmopolitan, lol, at least the egyptians I have met there have been. Having said that I have not met anyone from the poorer areas of Cairo.
It is such a shame that there has to be stereotyping of any nationality, but thats the way of the world.... we meet a few people and assume the rest of their countrymen are the same.
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
Listen, this is very insulting. Do you think there are no western women with ideals and values that actually would not have sex witn "anybody" or as you said "anything". Did it ever occr that there are western women who do not have sex before they are married either or do you judge westerners by stupid movies you watch while you have actually never been to say USA specifically? many can have just as good moral fiber as your own Egyptian women, no different, and perhaps even much better than many Egyptians may have themselves? And please do not feed us fairy tales about mass virgnity in Egypt, either.As pointed above, you have your own women who would have sex with anything or sell themselves for good chunk of dowry. Actually I heard the same from Egyptians I know personally.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 21 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
In either case a "slut" by Egyptian standards, is not a "slut" by Western standards.
Point well taken...but it's important to understand that Egyptian men are fully aware of western women's standards with regard to sex(yes I know not all are sexualy active before manrriage but the majority are)
and although they would not accept this behavior from their women(sisters for example), some are willing to engage in sexual activity with western women.
That does not mean that they consider them Sl.ts but willing .
quote:
Originally posted by elmagnoon:
Point well taken...but it's important to understand that Egyptian men are fully aware of western women's standards with regard to sex(yes I know not all are sexualy active before manrriage but the majority are)
and although they would not accept this behavior from their women(sisters for example), some are willing to engage in sexual activity with western women.
That does not mean that they consider them Sl.ts but willing .
Emalgoon, I believe then the same rules should apply to Egytian men as it applies to egy women as far as this issue. If egy men do engage in these activities, what do they or other consider them? "Willing"?
quote:
Originally posted by katrina:
Emalgoon, I believe then the same rules should apply to Egytian men as it applies to egy women as far as this issue. If egy men do engage in these activities, what do they or other consider them? "Willing"?
I should clarify,
- "Egyptian Men" perceive "Western Women" as "Willing" .
-"Egyptian Men" perceive "Egyptian Women" who engage in sexual activities as S..ts.
-"Egyptian Women" perceive "Western Women" who engage in sexual activates as "S..ts"
-Muslims perceive those who engage in sexual activities outside of marriage as "Sinners"
It's not suppose to make sense...it never did.
I tried to convince him that many young people did not have wanton sex with just anybody - he refused to believe me. The boys/men who had lived in Europe had told him the 'truth'.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Kat, my ex believed that ALL (repeat ALL) young European men and women had at least 50 partners each before they get married (and continued to have partners after). But - this is Luxor..
WOW I have a LOT of catching up to do!!
------------------
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Kat, my ex believed that ALL (repeat ALL) young European men and women had at least 50 partners each before they get married (and continued to have partners after). But - this is Luxor.I tried to convince him that many young people did not have wanton sex with just anybody - he refused to believe me. The boys/men who had lived in Europe had told him the 'truth'.
wow!
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 23 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Kat, my ex believed that ALL (repeat ALL) young European men and women had at least 50 partners each before they get married (and continued to have partners after). But - this is Luxor.I tried to convince him that many young people did not have wanton sex with just anybody - he refused to believe me. The boys/men who had lived in Europe had told him the 'truth'.
good god, you have to be kidding, right?
I have lived here and there, met and been with Egyptian women, and western, and I have to admit, the preconception of Egyptian man that western women are EAZY and welling are blown out of proportion, yes many are welling and sometime persistent, and unfortunately they give a bad name for other western women who don’t do that and will not sleep around, but because those EASY and welling western women, are out searching, and welling, they are the ones who are seen more by an Egyptian (irresistible) man who is out on the look for an easy one night stand , or a easy short-term exciting sexual relation.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Kat, my ex believed that ALL (repeat ALL) young European men and women had at least 50 partners each before they get married (and continued to have partners after). But - this is Luxor.I tried to convince him that many young people did not have wanton sex with just anybody - he refused to believe me. The boys/men who had lived in Europe had told him the 'truth'.
Welsafty has it exactly right. The women they have met are the ones that are easy and according to most of the young men who have spent time in Europe, they had to fight the girls off and it was hard for them to stick to their Moslem principles - really I am not joking. Most of it is bragging but the local boys believe them.
While we are discussing easiness it might be the place to mention those women that come to Luxor with the single intent of finding cheap sex. There are a lot of them - and some have more partners in a week than most people have a in a lifetime. Ask the calleche drivers, the felucca captains and the boys on the Corniche. They come with their friends, have two weeks of bonking and then go home to boring hubby.
No sex without marriage in Luxor. Rubbish. True you cannot stay in hotels but it is OK elsewhere. I know of boys here who have been with more than 100 Eurpean women and they are still in their early twenties - and they have only been married to about three of them.
Eurpean women have a bad name. Why? Because some women have earned it for them. Slags, slappers, tarts, sluts, name them what you will. Some have even been deported for drunken behaviour in the pubs.
We talk about Egyptian low life but Luxor seems to be attracting more and more European low life as its reputation for cheap sex grows and package holidays proliferate. The nature of the women that visit Luxor has changed dramatically over the time I have been here. It is sad.
This is not just my opinion but that of many people who have lived in Luxor for a long time.
I had to look that up in the Oxford Dictionary.... means interbreeding of races especially white/non white...well you learn something new everyday.
Penny
Guys/galls,!! If any take MR arx seriously or even care for his comments. please inform me
quote:
Originally posted by arx:
all of this just brings the discussion full circle. like i said, most foreign women look at an arab man in the same way she looks at gum stuck to the bottom of her shoe. the rest tend to be like the type of woman being described above. in general, most women don't miscegenate in the west. so, most women don't consider egyptians "irresistable"
or gigilos or anything for that matter. perhaps terrorists though.
:-(
) dont know where in the west you are then because a lot here do. I dont understand why we would look at Egyptians as terrorists??? ------------------
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 25 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by arx:
ok, i shouldn't say most, but a very large number do, an unacceptably large number. i've noticed it myself several times and have had several discussions with my friends about it and they have said the same thing. there have even been some high profile attacks against arabs which have involved women. i remember an indian guy in s.f. was attacked because a bunch of white guys and girls thought he was arab. his friend was stabbed! they called him all sorts of awful things.i did say that most don't "consider" us anything. not as gigilos, not as irresistable, and up until recently (in my experience) not as terrorists.
miscegenation is not just white/non-white. it's any racial combination. ayisha, what city do you live in? nationwide here in the u.s. it's something like 5% and that includes all racial types. i've heard statistics for the u.k. not being much higher. i know it's higher in high urban settings as compared to more rural areas.
maybe this is how you got the idea of all western women look down at Egyptian guys and believe they are less than a little piece of dirty gum stuck to their shoes, could that be just because this is how they look at you, and maybe treat you as well ?
I am just wondering.
You know I am only assuming you are speaking out of your OWN experience!!
Please correct me if I am wrong
quote:
Originally posted by arx:
ok, i shouldn't say most, but a very large number do, an unacceptably large number. i did say that most don't "consider" us anything. not as gigilos, not as irresistable, and up until recently (in my experience) not as terrorists.miscegenation is not just white/non-white. it's any racial combination. ayisha, what city do you live in? nationwide here in the u.s. it's something like 5% and that includes all racial types. i've heard statistics for the u.k. not being much higher. i know it's higher in high urban settings as compared to more rural areas.
yes, moved to the states when i was a baby.
"maybe this is how you got the idea of all western women look down at Egyptian guys and believe they are less than a little piece of dirty gum stuck to their shoes, could that be just because this is how they look at you, and maybe treat you as well ?
I am just wondering.
You know I am only assuming you are speaking out of your OWN experience!!
Please correct me if I am wrong"
yes, you are very wrong. as i stated, my friends and i have all talked at length about this and they all said the same thing. how can you disagree with me when your entire thread you've created is based on how you disapprove of all the negative stereotypes foreign women assign to egyptian men? just read your first 4 paragraphs that start this thread out....
"After I have red many posts here on this forum about real tragedies for many women, I notices as have many of you, that those tragedies somehow always pointed at the evil nature of the Egyptian man, either the man is a gigolo, a cheater, pervert, player, women pot, pathological lire, a**whole, D***head, SOB, Walking Pines, dictator, fascist, Natsy, Zionist, communist, you name it, … it turned out to be this Egyptian Guy
Well all those (Absolutely politically correct descriptions) are somehow true, and I wouldn’t even try to deny it, we all read the post about MR MG the surgeon from Alexandra, ( of course the hoist topic ever hit the waves the infamous :
Does anyone chat with a doctor from Alexandria? post),
The black list black list for egyptian man in hurghada?
Holiday romance turned soure Question for egyptian women and When it ended a love......
Egyptian men - Scam artists pictures-of interest to women.
The excuse egyptian man use for being unfaithful to women
Need Advice about my Egyptian Guy story!
Prince or Frog?
how long will egyptian man pretend..??
American Gal In Love W/ Egyptian Man
Topic: Words of Wisdom Needed
Orfi, ORFI,
and the list goes on and on
But my concern is more related to all those description based on romance, and the relation between HIM ( the BAD Egyptian Guy and his POOR foreign lady).
Why is it that this Man is getting all this bad publicity, I don’t know, but I know one thing, Egyptian men deserve nothing of all that, and I am speaking out of experience , I AM ONE"
i believe i said either they fit your description of them or they fit luxorlover/elmagnoon's description of them. later, i corrected myself saying that most don't stereotype egyptians in any way (i did say perhaps terrorists though). some wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an arab, mexican, brazilian or indian anyway!
[This message has been edited by arx (edited 25 August 2004).]
well if you are Egyptian even if it was only by birth and you have miraculously been saved and grew up in the states ( by the way you are not the only (baby MOSSES), but I really think you have a severe case of low-ClassIZM, there is therapy for that you Know < or maybe you can ask the KING of pope how was he able to change the color of his skin that he hated so MUCH, did someone drop you on your head when you ware young of something < or you are just born this way ????
and believe, if you hate Egypt and Egyptian that much, no one ever asked you to come back, EGYPT is better off without you, I think there is enough edits already in the world, and you are one less edit the whole country have to worry about
You just can’t help it, could you? .. you have to show off your idiocy every time you can< just like I cannot resist pointing it out for you
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
And your point is?? I really think you have no brain at all; your post had no argument, whatsoever except quoting me
Maybe I should really disregard anything you say since it won’t make any since anyway.well if you are Egyptian even if it was only by birth and you have miraculously been saved and grew up in the states ( by the way you are not the only (baby MOSSES), but I really think you have a severe case of low-ClassIZM, there is therapy for that you Know < or maybe you can ask the KING of pope how was he able to change the color of his skin that he hated so MUCH, did someone drop you on your head when you ware young of something < or you are just born this way ????
and believe, if you hate Egypt and Egyptian that much, no one ever asked you to come back, EGYPT is better off without you, I think there is enough edits already in the world, and you are one less edit the whole country have to worry about
You just can’t help it, could you? .. you have to show off your idiocy every time you can< just like I cannot resist pointing it out for you
I'm sorry to point this out, but in this posts you sounded just like a drama KING, I don't think this guy deserved any of these insults. If you have not lived in America as an Arab, how can you possibly know what this man may be experiencing now. I'm surprised at your response, as I actually expected a show of brotherhood. Some sympathy for one of your own kind experiencing some hardships in the west. There are women married to Arabs in this thread that have agreed with him- that lately Arabs on average have been experiencing discrimination, and like he said, most can't tell an Egyptian from an Indian. There is a lot on prejudice in America and he may be experiencing it right now.
I wonder if you are really Egyptian. First you insult Egyptian women for having 'too much class' then you insult an Egyptian man for having 'too little class' because he is treated like Sh*t, doesn't mean he is sh*t. Maybe it's different in Egypt, keep in mind most of the women going there for Egyptian husbands are Europeans, and not American women, so maybe his feeling a valid. I don't think you should invalidate them or make his wounds worst by pouring salt on them.
Arx I'm sorry that you are feeling like this in America. There are some evil ignorant people, but they are a minority. 9/11 just has some of the shook up or either it was an excuse for them to show their true bigotry.
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:What makes an Egyptian man so desirable by foreign ladies?
It is very simple, it not his handsome boyish looks, his killer Bodds, his fantastic bezique, or his extreme masculinity (some will disagree with me on that) , it is simply his hart and his passion
Welsafty, Arx does have a point in a sense, although I wouldn't use his words. Your original comment certainly borders on exaggeration however..
Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the majority of Western women are NOT attracted to Egyptian men. Most Western women wouldn't date an Egyptian man, much less marry one..
The VAST majority of Western women prefer to date and marry men from their own countries and cultures..
Some of this is due to negative preconceived notions about Arab men, which the media presents to us, but it is mostly due to the fact that people tend to marry or date within their own culture.. This is universal throughout the World, and even in Egypt, most Egyptians prefer to date and marry other Egyptians...
I'm a 25yr old American male, and most young women I know don't consider Arab men as potential boyfriends, much less husbands.
Just like Egyptian men stereotype foreign women who come to Egypt as sluts or "easy", there are LOADS of Western women that stereotype Egyptian and other Arab men as being misogynistic, sexist, and having a caveman mentality concerning women, which makes them unfit for being a potential lover or spouse..
It works both ways you see..
People in general let loose on vacations, and that is why so many women are willing to have a casual sexual affair with an Egyptian male on holiday.
Back in their home country however, everything changes and they revert back to normal..
Western men do this all the time.. They go to specific countries for vacation, and usually end up having sex with a native female. However, for marriage and dating most of these men would not consider foreign women as viable partners..
So, don't get any strange ideas in your head that Egyptian men are utterly irresistable to Western women, because the truth is, they're not..
[This message has been edited by Carfax (edited 25 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
And your point is?? I really think you have no brain at all; your post had no argument, whatsoever except quoting me
Maybe I should really disregard anything you say since it won’t make any since anyway.well if you are Egyptian even if it was only by birth and you have miraculously been saved and grew up in the states ( by the way you are not the only (baby MOSSES), but I really think you have a severe case of low-ClassIZM, there is therapy for that you Know < or maybe you can ask the KING of pope how was he able to change the color of his skin that he hated so MUCH, did someone drop you on your head when you ware young of something < or you are just born this way ????
and believe, if you hate Egypt and Egyptian that much, no one ever asked you to come back, EGYPT is better off without you, I think there is enough edits already in the world, and you are one less edit the whole country have to worry about
You just can’t help it, could you? .. you have to show off your idiocy every time you can< just like I cannot resist pointing it out for you
I don't think you're a drama queen.
You are a Faggot.
[This message has been edited by elmagnoon (edited 25 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
Welsafty, Arx does have a point in a sense, although I wouldn't use his words. Your original comment certainly borders on exaggeration however..Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the majority of Western women are [b]NOT attracted to Egyptian men. Most Western women wouldn't date an Egyptian man, much less marry one..
The VAST majority of Western women prefer to date and marry men from their own countries and cultures..
Some of this is due to negative preconceived notions about Arab men, which the media presents to us, but it is mostly due to the fact that people tend to marry or date within their own culture.. This is universal throughout the World, and even in Egypt, most Egyptians prefer to date and marry other Egyptians...
I'm a 25yr old American male, and most young women I know don't consider Arab men as potential boyfriends, much less husbands.
Just like Egyptian men stereotype foreign women who come to Egypt as sluts or "easy", there are LOADS of Western women that stereotype Egyptian and other Arab men as being misogynistic, sexist, and having a caveman mentality concerning women, which makes them unfit for being a potential lover or spouse..
It works both ways you see..
People in general let loose on vacations, and that is why so many women are willing to have a casual sexual affair with an Egyptian male on holiday.
Back in their home country however, everything changes and they revert back to normal..
Western men do this all the time.. They go to specific countries for vacation, and usually end up having sex with a native female. However, for marriage and dating most of these men would not consider foreign women as viable partners..
So, don't get any strange ideas in your head that Egyptian men are utterly irresistable to Western women, because the truth is, they're not..
[This message has been edited by Carfax (edited 25 August 2004).][/B]
I completely agree with you
Well said
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the majority of Western women are [b]NOT attracted to Egyptian men. Most Western women wouldn't date an Egyptian man, much less marry one..[/B]
That may be you experience but certainly not mine.
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
The VAST majority of Western women prefer to date and marry men from their own countries and cultures..
I completely disagree; the V A S T majority of western women prefer to date men they are attracted to. Period.
They do not have a preference of one Culture or another...there are exceptions.
Obviously I'm speaking from my experience. I’ve lived mainly in large cities and they tend to have a diverse population and naturally women have a much larger pool of men to pick from. I would assume that rural areas and smaller cities have smaller ethnic community and mixed marriages are not as common.
I am not saying that western women find Arabs or Egyptians especially attractive or more suitable for marriage, not at all.
I'm simply saying they do not Discriminate.
quote:
Originally posted by elmagnoon:
I completely disagree; the V A S T majority of western women prefer to date men they are attracted to. Period.
They do not have a preference of one Culture or another...there are exceptions.Obviously I'm speaking from my experience. I’ve lived mainly in large cities and they tend to have a diverse population and naturally women have a much larger pool of men to pick from. I would assume that rural areas and smaller cities have smaller ethnic community and mixed marriages are not as common.
I am not saying that western women find Arabs or Egyptians especially attractive or more suitable for marriage, not at all.
I'm simply saying they do not Discriminate.
quote:
Originally posted by elmagnoon:
I completely disagree; the V A S T majority of western women prefer to date men they are attracted to. Period.
They do not have a preference of one Culture or another...there are exceptions.Obviously I'm speaking from my experience. I’ve lived mainly in large cities and they tend to have a diverse population and naturally women have a much larger pool of men to pick from. I would assume that rural areas and smaller cities have smaller ethnic community and mixed marriages are not as common.
I am not saying that western women find Arabs or Egyptians especially attractive or more suitable for marriage, not at all.
I'm simply saying they do not Discriminate.
You may be speaking from you own personal experience, but you are not speaking from facts. The fact is according to the US census bureau, only 5% of all marriages are interracial. So I think the numbers speak for themselves. It doesnt mean they are 'prejudice' it just appears they 'V A S T L Y' prefer their own. As Arx stated earlier, they miscengenation is not very common.
But then again you live in Canada correct?
Well I know for a fact, that interacial marriages are far more common in Canada than they are in the USA.
[This message has been edited by AnotherNewMember (edited 25 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
You may be speaking from you own personal experience, but you are not speaking from facts. The fact is according to the US census bureau, only 5% of all marriages are interracial. So I think the numbers speak for themselves. It doesnt mean they are 'prejudice' it just appears they 'V A S T L Y' prefer their own. As Arx stated earlier, they miscengenation is not very common.But then again you live in Canada correct?
Well I know for a fact, that interacial marriages are far more common in Canada than they are in the USA.[This message has been edited by AnotherNewMember (edited 25 August 2004).]
Just curious, are those statisitics broken down geographicaly.
you're last two posts totaly confused me, I thought I knew who you are.
quote:
Originally posted by elmagnoon:
I completely disagree; the V A S T majority of western women prefer to date men they are attracted to. Period.
They do not have a preference of one Culture or another...there are exceptions.
Magnoon, overall it cannot possibly be denied that people tend to date or marry WITHIN their own culture or ethnic group worldwide..
It's not a matter of racism, just a "natural" preference for the familiar that is common throughout the human species..
Most Catholics marry other Catholics, and most Muslims marry other Muslims. Most Scots want to marry other Scots, and most Americans want to marry other Americans.. There are many layers to this, which cross religion, nationality, culture, language, class etc...
quote:
Obviously I'm speaking from my experience. I’ve lived mainly in large cities and they tend to have a diverse population and naturally women have a much larger pool of men to pick from. I would assume that rural areas and smaller cities have smaller ethnic community and mixed marriages are not as common.
I've lived in many cities myself, in three Western countries, and I still stand by the view, that the majority of people tend to date or marry people whom they have the most in common with.. Thats just natural..
Although inter-ethnic dating is becoming more and more common each year, it will never be as common as dating or marrying someone from your own ethnic group.
Notice I said "ethnic" rather than racial group.. Ethnicity is more devisive than race by a long shot..
quote:
I am not saying that western women find Arabs or Egyptians especially attractive or more suitable for marriage, not at all.
I'm simply saying they do not Discriminate
You're speaking as if inter-ethnic relationships are the norm, when they're not, although they are becoming more common..
Again, this is NOT necessarily due to racism or ethnic discrimination.. It's mostly due to the fact that people naturally tend to be attracted to those who are most like themselves..
Most American muslims marry and date other Muslims, and most American Christians marry and date other Christians.
Arab men are a special case however, because they are portrayed negatively by the media as being mysoginistic, terrorists, sexist etc..
Most women I know simply would not date a NATIVE Egyptian male due to this cultural stereotype..
Americanized/Westernized Egyptians that were born in the West are different though, because they have been absorbed into the greater "American" or Western culture and are for all intensive purposes, regarded as American/Western rather than Egyptian..
I've dated and known many Muslim American women, and even they would prefer to date an American man, rather than a man from their father and mother's country..
[This message has been edited by Carfax (edited 25 August 2004).]
Wow, guys, really, what an excellent workshop revealing secrets of a man's soul. So much maturity, knowledge and well thought of points of argument. It has been an immense pleasure sitting here in the peanut gallery and broadening my horizons thanks to your passionate involvement in the socially important (however controversial) issues.
quote:
Originally posted by Karah_Mia:
Men talking in human tongues and it is not even Christmas Eve!
One can't help but wonder if you're being sarcastic or honest 
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
One can't help but wonder if you're being sarcastic or honest
This time (without even shadow of smile on my ugly face) I am really really honest I mean it and I swear. No smiley faces, no nothing. I really liked your posts for their honest presentation of mens' thoughts on a subject that I find very interesting but which is usually difficult to make any guys to honestly talk about.
quote:
Originally posted by Karah_Mia:
This time (without even shadow of smile on my ugly face) I am really really honest I mean it and I swear. No smiley faces, no nothing. I really liked your posts for their honest presentation of mens' thoughts on a subject that I find very interesting but which is usually difficult to make any guys to honestly talk about.
In that case then, thank you
On E-T I'm known as one of the few male "chatterboxes" so I'm quite talkative
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
I'm sorry to point this out, but in this posts you sounded just like a drama KING, I don't think this guy deserved any of these insults. If you have not lived in America as an Arab, how can you possibly know what this man may be experiencing now.
you see this is the problem, we are both, me and GENIOUS are Egyptian Americans, and I've been born in the USA, and lived more than half my life in the states< and actually I just been back to Egypt less than 3 months ago, so you can say that I know exactly how is it to be an Arab American living there
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
I'm surprised at your response, as I actually expected a show of brotherhood. Some sympathy for one of your own kind experiencing some hardships in the west.
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
I wonder if you are really Egyptian. First you insult Egyptian women for having 'too much class' then you insult an Egyptian man for having 'too little class' because he is treated like Sh*t, doesn't mean he is sh*t. Maybe it's different in Egypt, keep in mind most of the women going there for Egyptian husbands are Europeans, and not American women, so maybe his feeling a valid. I don't think you should invalidate them or make his wounds worst by pouring salt on them.
, and I see no reason whatsoever for what he was saying except that he seriously needs allot of therapy, well maybe if you read his comments in other post you would feel that I haven’t insulted him at all, I just want the best for him (TO GET SOME THERAPY)
DEAR ANOTHERNEWMEMBER, I heard some roomers about you being someone else, changing your username when people start ignoring you and realize you are only here to start a fight ? was it you or I just got mixed up with another new member
you see this is the problem, we are both, me and GENIOUS are Egyptian americans, and I've been born in the USA, and lived more than half my life in the states< and actually I just been back to Egypt less than 3 months ago< so you can say that I know exactly how to be an arab american living there, and I see no reason whatsoever for what he was saying except that he seriously needs alot of therapy< well maybe if you read his comments in other post you would feel that I havent insulted him at all, I just want the best for him (TO GET SOME THERAPY)
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
Arx I'm sorry that you are feeling like this in America. There are some evil ignorant people, but they are a minority. 9/11 just has some of the shook up or either it was an excuse for them to show their true bigotry.
hmmmm, brothers in arms ?
I just don’t like those who prepare an explosive response to a post while they haven’t read the post carefully to start with
Which whole in their bodies they user to read? Well once again if someone feels like sh*t, and believes everyone treats him like sh*t, that could give me a good idea what Big AAA whole in their bodies they use to read
Everyone else, excuse my smelly language,
Could someone please use the flusher???
[This message has been edited by welsafty (edited 25 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the majority of Western women are NOT attracted to Egyptian men. Most Western women wouldn't date an Egyptian man, much less marry one..The VAST majority of Western women prefer to date and marry men from their own countries and cultures..
why dont you tell that to all western women ON THIS POST who are iether married to or dating egyptian man... oh and living with them IN EGYPT
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
why dont you tell that to all western women ON THIS POST who are iether married to or dating egyptian man... oh and living with them IN EGYPT
LOL what would be the point? This board is about Egypt, and thus most of the women coming here will be enamored with Egyptian men and Egyptian culture, so that is expected..
My disagreement with you was when you portrayed Western women in "general" as being attracted to Egyptian men, which certainly isn't true..
Your ego has been inflated unjustly because you equate the few Western women that come to Egypt as being representative of ALL Western women..
You also non too "subtly" tried to make it seem as if Egyptian men are all handsome, smooth, sophisticated, and paragons of masculinity while other men elsewhere in the World are of a lower standard..
That REALLY cracked me up
[This message has been edited by Carfax (edited 25 August 2004).]
GOD!!! no-one reads before they get the inspiration to write a reply
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
LOL what would be the point? This board is about Egypt, and thus [b]most of the women coming here will be enamored with Egyptian men and Egyptian culture, so that is expected..My disagreement with you was when you portrayed Western women in "general" as being attracted to Egyptian men, which certainly isn't true..
Your ego has been inflated unjustly because you equate the few Western women that come to Egypt as being representative of ALL Western women..
You also non too "subtly" tried to make it seem as if Egyptian men are all handsome, smooth, sophisticated, and paragons of masculinity while other men elsewhere in the World are of a lower standard..
That REALLY cracked me up
[This message has been edited by Carfax (edited 25 August 2004).][/B]
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
mm…… let me think for a sec here… maybe you have to read what I posted before decide that I made it GENERAL. Just like you said, we are in Egyptian forum, and we are talking about EGYPTIAN man and western Woman, and it doesn’t need to much brain to understand that that the discussion is about those who are attracted to Egyptian man, to reply to those who say WESTERN women who fall in love with Egyptian men get hurtGOD!!! no-one reads before they get the inspiration to write a reply
Perhaps you need me to jog your memory. This is what you said originally:
quote:
What makes an Egyptian man so desirable by foreign ladies?
It is very simple, it not his handsome boyish looks, his killer Bodds, his fantastic bezique, or his extreme masculinity (some will disagree with me on that) , it is simply his hart and his passion
So, in your first paragraph, you generally portray Egyptian men as perfect in every respect, and whom Western women worship and adore.
Notice also, that Arx commented on that aswell, and not just myself so I wasn't the only person to notice it..
Have you ever considered a job in advertising by the way?
Onto the next statement of yours. Now pay attention to the "highlighted" words:
quote:
aided with general modesty and sometimes good manners, and even religious tendency, makes this EGYPTIAN guy the perfect family man , who is well know to be more faithful to his family that many other non Egyptian men, and would give up his life for this family of his, plus when it to commitment, an Egyptian man would not hesitate to get married and settle down with the right person, not because he is an angle , but because he have been programmed to seek a stable family lifestyle from the Egyptian culture itself.
Look at the area that I highlighted.. That prompted me to reply to your post. It seemed to me that you were "trying" to run a non too subtle smear campaign against non Egyptian men, while at the same time making Egyptian men appear perfect.
I never would have replied to your post if you had not made such a ridiculous comparison between Egyptian and non Egyptian men.
Again, I must say that you should consider advertising as a career
[This message has been edited by Carfax (edited 25 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
Look at the area that I highlighted.. That prompted me to reply to your post................................Again, I must say that you should consider advertising as a career
[B]
Hee hee good suggestion, but I already have another career and I am very good at it to
one personal note, please try to reduce the number of times you edit your own post, it makes me wonder how many times you had to think and refine your replies and posts
[b] THIS MESSAGE HAVE BEEEN, oppps HAVE NOT BEEN EDITED A SINGLE TIME
carfax last post was very true and clarified what i was trying to say. thank you, even though it obviously doesn't bode well for my ego either!
quote:
Originally posted by EgyptianGuy:
ANNoUNCEMENT : Wanted : a woman wqhos obedient, submissive, silent and dynamo in bed...
This should be in classified shouldnt it?
------------------
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
quote:
originally posted by welsafty
DEAR ANOTHERNEWMEMBER, I heard some roomers about you being someone else, changing your username when people start ignoring you and realize you are only here to start a fight ? was it you or I just got mixed up with another new member
That's interesting that YOU heard this rumor being a NEW member yourself
But I'll give you the OBVIOUS response, I DID change my user ID. Nothing could be more obvious, it's no secret at all. Did I change it to start a fight? Now that's laughable since it was changed in one of the BIGGEST fights in ES history. It was changed for the purpose of showing that anybody on here can be anybody on here-makes sense?
For example, YOU claim to be an american born citizen, who can't separate the spelling of write from right and on this particular thread, (before you edit it ) I'd like to point out this post:
welsafty
Member
Posts: 145
Registered: Aug 2004
posted 19 August 2004 02:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
It was interesting to note also that both Welsafty and Arx live in America not Egypt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you got that one wrong to, always jumping to conclusions
think before you write
Any American born third grader knows the 'write' with your pen, is not the same at the 'right' opposite of wrong. And I think YOU know this as well, what a horrible attempt at trying to change your WRITING style
Next notice the BOLD
welsafty
Member
Posts: 145
Registered: Aug 2004
posted 23 August 2004 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most likely those Boys/men who lived in Europe ware those few irresistible Egyptian guys
I have lived here and there, met and been with Egyptian women, and western, and I have to admit, the preconception of Egyptian man that western women are EAZY and welling are blown out of proportion, yes many are welling and sometime persistent, and unfortunately they give a bad name for other western women who don’t do that and willnot sleep around, but because those EASY and welling western women, are out searching, and welling, they are the ones who are seen more by an Egyptian (irresistible) man who is out on the look for an easy one night stand , or a easy short-term exciting sexual relation.
Now how is it that an AMERICAN born can spell WILL, but can't add the 3rd grade -ING suffix to spell WILLING
Another 'horrible' attempt at trying to change your writing style.
The difference between me having an 'obvious' new ID, is that I can admit to it. But can the 100 more people that change their names to other names, rather than something as cunning as ANOTHERnewmember- could admit the same? That's the whole point Kimo, oops, I meant Welsafty. (wouldn't want to be accused of starting any fights ) or being a DRAMA KING or queen or BOTH.
As far as "being IGNORED for trying to start fights"
Are you kidding me? Those are the HOTTEST threads on ES, who ignores the fights? I mean really, the fights even get people from ET to come back to start posting, don't they?
[This message has been edited by AnotherNewMember (edited 26 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
That's interesting that YOU heard this rumor being a NEW member yourself
I raely lkie the way you pionetd out my splling mssitakes, no boedy is prefcet, and I mkae no scerit out of my bad splling sklils, i assemud you were able to unredstand erevy wrod I worte.
does anyone else have a problem with my SPELLING CRIMES ??
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
you see how fast I fealt at home ??
I raely lkie the way you pionetd out my splling mssitakes, no boedy is prefcet, and I mkae no scerit out of my bad splling sklils, i assemud you were able to unredstand erevy wrod I worte.
does anyone else have a problem with my SPELLING CRIMES ??
That depends on where you are. I think spelling like that is still a hanging offence in England as its treason or a crime against the Queens English or something 
I would lay low for a while till it blows over if I were you
------------------
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
You also non too "subtly" tried to make it seem as if Egyptian men are all handsome, smooth, sophisticated, and paragons of masculinity while [b]other men elsewhere in the World are of a lower standard..
[/B]
And before anyone jumps on me - I don't mean this in a bad way. I have Egyptian male friends whom I love and value, but somehow they all have this overly strong belief in their superior masculinity. I always wonder how they come to this conclusion since they have no way of comparing ...
quote:
Originally posted by Dalia:
LOL ... this is something most Egyptian men try to make you believe.And before anyone jumps on me - I don't mean this in a bad way. I have Egyptian male friends whom I love and value, but somehow they all have this overly strong belief in their superior masculinity. I always wonder how they come to this conclusion since they have no way of comparing ...
Hello Dalia. I haven't seen you in what, 2yrs or so?
And, is Welsafty really Kimo? Although Kimo and I never really got along, he did possess a modicum of intelligence, and his english was quite good; unlike this Welsafty character..
But, that could be part of the ploy I guess.
quote:
Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?
"i believe i said either they fit your description of them or they fit luxorlover/elmagnoon's description of them. later, i corrected myself saying that most don't stereotype egyptians in any way (i did say perhaps terrorists though). some wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an arab, mexican, brazilian or indian anyway!"
quote:
Originally posted by shesha girl:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
[b] That's interesting. Would you care to elaborate. Is that really the idea most people in the west have of us "filthy Arabs"? I haven't been to America but I find that hard to swallow. I have been to Europe and that certainly wasn't the impression I got. They were mostly impartial, or maybe they were acting impartial while thinking "dirty Arab". I don't know but are you exaggerating a bit maybe?
Your husband moved to the US when he was 6?
How's his Arab accent? He's probably so well blended in by now, if he spent most of his life in the US, that he doesn't draw much negative attention. For someone who is new to the country, it can be different.
It is unfortunate, but there are many westerners (more so in some groups than in others) who hang onto a low opinion of Arabs in general because they associate Arabs with terrorism, and/or think that all Arabs don't let their women show their faces in public, or, something to that effect. The ignorance at times can be more than nauseating. There are people who generalize far too much. I find that almost always, it is ignorant people who have never known any Arabs who think this way. And yes, usually they can't distinguish between Arab, Pakistani, Indian, or Mexican etc.
I am not Arab, I am Canadian of European descent. I have Arab friends. I have been looking for ways to overcome some of the ignorant attitudes around me. I think everyone in Canada and the USA needs to have an Arab friend or two like the ones I have. Then, I don't think anyone would have that attitude anymore, and perhaps a few issues would get resolved some day As well, I think alot of people need to be educated about what Islam really is. The nightmare of 9/11 hurt people from all over the world, but, it hurt Arabs in a different way.
Not all westerners think badly of Arabs in general - I certainly don't, and I know many people who don't, and in fact, I personally think highly of them And, in many ways I'd prefer an Arab muslim man to a western man. In my experience, I find they tend to have strong family values, strong work ethic, and tend to be honest and loyal in friendship. I have found they also tend to love, appreciate, and respect their wives. But then, I met alot of good ones
There is good and bad in every race. It could be the white western man who puts down the Arab man, is the one who then turns around and beats his own white western wife and/or his white western children. But the grape vine has more fun with the Arab who does it, or the Pakistani, the Hindu, or who ever else is the foreigner with the permanent sun tan
So here it all boils down to the need to "get to know each other".
I am new here, and haven't had time to read through the posts in detail, but this one just caught my attention. It's a sad and unfair thing (over generalizing), but it is response to the actions of a few, and I, myself have run into it all too much at times. People need to be educated, it's ignorance.
[This message has been edited by Alora (edited 29 August 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Carfax:
Hello Dalia. I haven't seen you in what, 2yrs or so?And, is Welsafty really Kimo? Although Kimo and I never really got along, he did possess a modicum of intelligence, and his english was quite good; unlike this Welsafty character..
But, that could be part of the ploy I guess.
Carfax, long time no see. How's it going. Thanks a lot for the compliment man, coming from you it means a lot. I also sensed a faint trace of a sentient being beyond your ID (oh I hate getting so mushy).
And no I don't have any alter egos, why would I need one? I say all I want under this ID!
quote:
Originally posted by welsafty:
and I should have also mentioned that many western female wonder how much beating she well get if she married an Egyptian Man,
I wonder where you meet those women. You seem to have a talent for attracting "Ignorant", "Demanding" and generaly stupid women, be they Egyptians or Western.
quote:
Originally posted by elmagnoon:
I wonder where you meet those women. You seem to have a talent for attracting "Ignorant", "Demanding" and generaly stupid women, be they Egyptians or Western.
where can i find one,,just,,one....of those ignorant babes???????????
quote:
Originally posted by egyptguy:
where can i find one,,just,,one....of those ignorant babes???????????
Ahem.. well... there are many of them collecting dust on the shelves of certain demonic retail branches. U may choose their size, hair color, even the size and shape of their mouth!!! Their level of ignorance rises or falls proportionally to the amount of air you blow into their….well... air supply openings.
quote:
Originally posted by Samia:
And for men who believe in polygamy.. you can usually get one'buy one get one free!!!'
quote:
Originally posted by Samia:
And for men who believe in polygamy.. you can usually get one'buy one get one free!!!'
POLYGAMY AND BIGAMY : whaTS THE DIFFERENCE?
whic is more gross??
A really good post, thank you for sharing it.
Farhana
quote:
Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
That's interesting that YOU heard this rumor being a NEW member yourselfBut I'll give you the OBVIOUS response, I DID change my user ID. Nothing could be more obvious, it's no secret at all. Did I change it to start a fight? Now that's laughable since it was changed in one of the BIGGEST fights in ES history. It was changed for the purpose of showing that anybody on here can be anybody on here-makes sense?
For example, YOU claim to be an american born citizen, who can't separate the spelling of [b]write from right and on this particular thread, (before you edit it
welsafty
Member
Posts: 145
Registered: Aug 2004
posted 19 August 2004 02:15 AM [/B]
BTW the topic is just becoming huge in Estonian and Russian webs because these nationalies are just beginning to spend money on travelling. Sharm already speaks russian like it does english :o), a luxury we estonians do not share but never mind, we are a happily multilingual people, or at least I am :o). But anyway... egyptian men, it seems they make us all, western women, fly like flies to honey :o))
OK, here my views about the topic of several wives.
First of all we should remember ther is no one proven “technical” standard for love or marriage. This os what makes ist all so confusing, because otherwise we’d simply have to compare and decide, but inbstead, it all is very personal because we all have to cerain extent different wishes and standards and values in life.
Secondly and awfully importantly, all comparisons thus should be relative, there are no absolute values. And relative to real life maybe, not dreams. I’ve noticed that people here compare matters of love and marriage to the idealistic situation where 2 persons are married to each other and (NB!) they both and both of them also love each other. Now how often does this occur in real life? I would to suggest that especially north americans or people from any other old fixed type of societies love to see simply what they wish to see and believe about themselves. Though don’t we all :o). There is a lot of hypocracy and make-believe in our societies, but the truth is that people marry on very different reasons even in the western cultures; that the initial infatuation may not last and that it is I believe only normal if a person then will continue looking for a satisfying relationship, or excitement if the marriage to the first person becomes boring. None of us wishes it, but none of us can guarantee things beforehand! Men no less than women. Thus, even so many men in the west have several wives, here we just call the second wife the “lover” and the arrangement is different in that the married wife usually does not know :o). Many couples even if they strive hard to comply to all expectations of their immediate society, simply do not enjoy life together, and also grow apart, now what’s enjoyable or recommendable in a monogamy like that? ...in societies where all our states have welfare systems in place so that anyone can very well survive on own, with or without children or job, economically. (Not that i promote any such life as a single.)
Compared to not the ideal then, but to reality (and especially to the worst of it, like wives being beaten or suffering economically incapable or drunken husbands, or marriages for a title or money or better life standard in general, absolutely as common in the west, may i point out) why would we demand from the muslims to be and behave solely ideally then, if we ourselvs aren’t capable of living our ideals.And if the “ideal” is very personal and depends on what other choices the person would realistically have, e.g. to share a maybe nice man, or to entirely own a not so nice one or noone at all?? Can you answer? Someone famous has said that the real choices in life are not between good and bad (because that is easy!). Real choices are between bad and bad, or good and good... several different goods or bads, and that’s what makes it so difficult.
There is on factor that keeps me personally interested in egypt and possibly in its men (although the whole country is full of wonderful potential, besides its history of course) is the emotions that I experienced there. Living in a somewhat climatically hard or maybe simply too hard working society where men show about as much emotions as tin preserves and act about as molluscs when you try to touch them (tuck in or flee :o), I was fascinated how bravely and freely the egyptians talk about their emotions. I also hope that maybe there they somewhat learn from the cultures developing ahead of them (arbitrary but let me say so here), that they maybe could avoid the wrong turns we have may made, and develop their own way instead, preserving the real values that may still exist there, while I already see them disappearing so fast in Estonia. Career, a house, a second car, then private school for children, we are becoming a consumer society, eagerly shelling out money even for things that we coudl do ourselves or could get without money (e.g. ther is no proven records that state schools are any worse or private schools any better). We spend entire lives simply slaving for more money to buy more things that we think we need to be happy. I went to egypt ands I saw beduins and they were the happiest people of long times I’ve seen! So I strongly believe on that happyness is in less things instead and that maybe thsi standard is easier to follow when being married to an Egyptian, in a land with strong and long own traditions, though I am a bit worried that they think too much of western ways and try to mimick the coca cola culture, instead of standing strong for own values and self-regard.
What concerns the different religions, then I am a believer if in anything at all then in humans :o), the only proven force in the world who can help in anything if at all. But we all believe n something, and very strong, and get angry or defencive if feel that our beliefs are threatened because losing belief could leave us baseless and directionless, at least for some time. And since our decisions, even the smallest, actually rely on our beliefs and values, then I think it is only natural, if spouses share, try share or try convince the other to share same beliefs. How else could you back your man in any of his decisions, or he you....???? if you believe differently. The solution in my mind is simply try look deeper than the books and stories to the general ideas behind them. The religions thus become less threatning and there is actually a lot that we share and follow even without activele believeing or following. Like do not do onto another what you would not have don to you, or what is the correct saying in English. A lot is simply based on humanistic values, and part is based on specific circumstances, locations and people to whom they apply and symphatise. We can also view any holy book as an ancient guide to a good and fulfilling life, according to knowledge and beliefs applicable in its time. Of course, having a man who shares the same level of intelligence with you probably does help, but isn’t this too one of these difficult to attain in real life “ideals”. :o)
[This message has been edited by Pritipersoon55 (edited 06 February 2005).]
Sorry for typos and for taking up that much space :o).