I regularly have a full body massage from a masseur in Luxor. She is an English woman and properly trained. Sadly she is leaving Egypt on 7th March. She was telling me that she gets a massage from a man in a local hotel. I told her about this post on ES and she said well done for doing something about it but this man in Luxor was nothing like that. He is a good Muslim and properly trained. His wife works there as well in the gym. So I needn't worry.
I accept what she has said BUT I won't be using him. I just can't get my head round the idea of a good Muslim man being OK with giving a full body massage to someone of the opposite sex. I was going to ask my husband if it was alright with him and then realised it isn't alright with me. I can't justify/explain it to myself never mind my husband, it just seems impossible.
It is a real shame because I shall miss my massages.
With everything the Koran teaches about modesty between the sexes do you think it is right for a Muslim to give massages to someone of the opposite sex?
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Originally posted by akshar:
Following on from this topic http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum3/HTML/000706.html
With everything the Koran teaches about modesty between the sexes do you think it is right for a Muslim to give massages to someone of the opposite sex?
I believe each person's interpretations of his religion or other beliefs are always personal to a certain extent. Also, it is not the "activity" itself but the aims behind it that matter. Thus, going for the extreme example here, sex can be the dirtiest thing in the world if you do it with a dirty mind, while it can be the most beautiful holy experience two persons can share.
BTW in our modern world why don't you have the same worries when a woman touches you, how do you know what she is thinking actually, or what she might hiding very well? U see? Once you choose the way of suspicion, you can continue on it endlessly..
I personally enjoy a massage by a professional male EXACTLY because I joice in the thinking that he is 100% giving (or OK, maybe 98% :) and thinking of my wellbeing, instead of vice versa.
Many happy massages, everyone!
Day spas with scented candles and mudbaths that flaunt the sensual experience? Well, regardless of which religion it is, I would say many deeply religious people would find it uncomfortable.
I myself am not comfortable with massages unless their part of a treatment because I tend to think of them as very intimate and done in the privacy of one's home. But that's just me. I have tried a spa in Cairo run by a woman from Switzerland and they have a very professional atmosphere and do offer various types of massages. Done by women, for women.
The masseur did a wonderful job though and I was able to get back to work after over a week.
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Originally posted by MENTAL PROBLEM:
what if that muslim massuese is gay???
wouldn't that be ok?
why to you say that about muslim man .....????
I am surprised to hear that about a muslim man, why he cannot be christian or jew. right...???
it seems that you donot like muslims you bitch.
hii egyptians guys wake up, see what is said about you here and try to stop this sluts
It is rather petty for you to pass judgement on him, or to even attempt to convince others to do anything but make up their own mind.
This is how extremist ideals begin - by trying to force your beliefs on the environment surrounding you.
Sam W.
[This message has been edited by Nerhesi (edited 23 February 2005).]
I told my hubby about it ahead of time, and noted it was goin to be a male masseur. He went pale and I told him, the entire spa is female or gay men. Afterwards my hubby was more concerned of whether the disk went back into place and how my nerves were.
He can be very abbrassive about the gay issue from a religious standpoint, but won't judge. Its between the gay person and God/Allah. It isn't our place pass judgements on the gay community. Though I do believe its their responsibility to practice safe sex and monogamy. If they want to be treated as equals to us breeders, they need to stop acting like the circus. Gays are capable of monogamous long life lasting relationships. I am not allowed to impress this upon our child, but hey she will make up her own mind.
And some of his funniest customers at the resturants he manages are gay. They make him laugh on a stressful shift. And we chose a gay neighborhood to live in because we like the people. (As long as no man hits on him, he's fine)
But in Misr. No massages by men. If I did I'd probably run into a Krissy episode and put a few gonads out of order.
BTW For once I find myself agreeing with Sonomod in Misr women for women.
Sorry to come into this discussion late. A Muslim man is not allowed to touch any woman he is not closely related to, i.e. the ones he cannot see without hijab, and even among the women he can touch, the only one he can see from the navel to the knee is his wife. Some scholars say that for the other women he cannot see the whole area from the elbow to below the knee, although there are some different opinions on this.
A Muslim male doctor/therapist may treat a female patient if it is absolutely necessary for him to do so for important health needs, and if there is no female doctor available who is competent in that specific speciality. He should only examine/treat the relevant areas of the body to the area the woman is complaining about, if it is necessary to do so. Also, he should not be alone with her during the consultation; she should either be accompanied by another female or a male relative.
So if it was absolutely necessary for a woman to have a massage for immediate health reasons, not just for pleasurable reasons, and there was no female masseuse available, under those rulings a man could treat her until a woman was found. But he certainly should not be giving massages to woman for pleasurable reasons, or looking at or touching parts of the body that aren’t absolutely necessary for urgent health needs.
And Allah knows best.
quote:
Originally posted by newcomer:
Hi akshar!Sorry to come into this discussion late. A Muslim man is not allowed to touch any woman he is not closely related to, i.e. the ones he cannot see without hijab, and even among the women he can touch, the only one he can see from the navel to the knee is his wife. Some scholars say that for the other women he cannot see the whole area from the elbow to below the knee, although there are some different opinions on this.
A Muslim male doctor/therapist may treat a female patient if it is absolutely necessary for him to do so for important health needs, and if there is no female doctor available who is competent in that specific speciality. He should only examine/treat the relevant areas of the body to the area the woman is complaining about, if it is necessary to do so. Also, he should not be alone with her during the consultation; she should either be accompanied by another female or a male relative.
So if it was absolutely necessary for a woman to have a massage for immediate health reasons, not just for pleasurable reasons, and there was no female masseuse available, under those rulings a man could treat her until a woman was found. But he certainly should not be giving massages to woman for pleasurable reasons, or looking at or touching parts of the body that aren’t absolutely necessary for urgent health needs.
And Allah knows best.
I was so glad when I saw you had replied to the topic because your explainations are so easy to understand and not preachy. You have enlightened me a lot on these forums.
What you said was my understanding although not so much detail, which I am greatful for.
I knew it didn't make sense that he was a 'good' muslim and massaged people of the opposite sex. If he had been described as a 'good' man or 'good' Christian then it would have been reassuring but it was illogical to describe him as a 'good' Muslim when clearly the nature of his job conflicted with that.
So does anyone know of a female massure in Luxor 
Jane
Just remembered something else that I forgot to mention! In Islam, the only person who can see a woman’s body between the navel and the knee is her husband, that also includes other women. So even if the masseuse is a woman she should not look at this area of another woman’s body. From my understanding, if it was necessary for medical reasons for a woman to be massaged in this area of her body, it should be covered with a cloth and the massage done with the minimum amount of contact possible. This happens when a dead body is being washed for burial by other women. to show respect for the human body, so how much more necessary is this for a live human being!
The same applies to a man, the only person who can see between his navel and knee are his wives!
[This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 25 February 2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
I knew it didn't make sense that he was a 'good' muslim and massaged people of the opposite sex. If he had been described as a 'good' man or 'good' Christian then it would have been reassuring but it was illogical to describe him as a 'good' Muslim when clearly the nature of his job conflicted with that.
quote:
Originally posted by newcomer:
Hi akshar!Just remembered something else that I forgot to mention! In Islam, the only person who can see a woman’s body between the navel and the knee is her husband, that also includes other women. So even if the masseuse is a woman she should not look at this area of another woman’s body. From my understanding, if it was necessary for medical reasons for a woman to be massaged in this area of her body, it should be covered with a cloth and the massage done with the minimum amount of contact possible. This happens when a dead body is being washed for burial by other women. to show respect for the human body, so how much more necessary is this for a live human being!
The same applies to a man, the only person who can see between his navel and knee are his wives!
That is something I definately didn't know. Thank you again
quote:
Originally posted by cancanfrench2005:
MENTAL problem what if that muslim massuese is gay???
wouldn't that be ok?why to you say that about muslim man .....????
I am surprised to hear that about a muslim man, why he cannot be christian or jew. right...???
it seems that you donot like muslims you bitch.
hii egyptians guys wake up, see what is said about you here and try to stop this sluts
Not a big deal! masseur usually lose it and turn a gay.