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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
Hi,

Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?

I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.

I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.

He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.

This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.

I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.

I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.

Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?

Amanda x
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
No, I don`t think so. And I also think that you have to make up your mind and take distance from him. You`ve brought this issue before, and you know that we`ve heard similar stories before.
Your mind is blinded by your love, and you can`t take decisions in this state of mind.
Try to take distance and think about it rationally. What did he ever try to have YOUR wellness in mind? Do you think it`s fair let a woman believe there is a future for you two together when he knows that you will never be accepted by his people, even in other Arabic countries? All what he has given you are words. Sweet words. But no actions. He tells you that he can`t marrie, you and that he even has considered leaving Egypt. Considered. Not more, not less. It`s a safe way to let you believe his attentions are good.Because no action has to be taken, it are only words...
Honey, I can tell you hundreds of stories. About Western women and about Egyptian women, who were held on a line. Blinded by their love for a man.
And in the meanwhile all the man is doing is give you sweet words and take.... take your body, take your money, take all what he can get.
I`ve seen several traumatized women, with big scarfs on their minds. Never been able to give their trust to any other man again.
And that hurts.
Please, think about yourself. What would be good for you, and for your children. Don`t let a man makes possession of your mind. A good man does not do this to a woman he loves. he would have your wellness in mind. And sometimes love means, let it go. Because it will destruct you.
If that man really loves you, he would take you to introduce you to his family. To let them know you, to show why he has choosed you, so they can love you also.
He didn`t do that, you never met his family, you don`t even know for sure they know about you.
This is a red flag, also the fact that he allows you to pay for him.
Make a list of all this red flags, and make a list with positive actions he has made to make this relationship work.
Maybe it will bring clearness for you.
Untill now you haven`t been able to make up your mind, even with all the stories about other people.
You need distance and clearness.
You need to know what YOU want for you and your children.
 

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Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
 
Amanda, have you met his family? It is normal for them to meet you before he considers marrying you.

Most men that are in this situation will NOT do anything the family wants him not to do. Maybe if they meet you thier attitude will change?

Are you planning on living in Egypt or bringing him to UK? Not All Egyptian families want thier boys leaving Egypt.

Is he Muslim? and if he is, are you Muslim?

Sorry if this has been posted in other places but I read and dont always retain what I read about people

You are from a totally different culture and life from his and his family so they of course will be very wary of you and your intentions as you and your family should also be wary of him and his intentions, its natural.

A lot depends on his age and his 'status' in his family whether he will go his way or as the family want. There is also the point that many Egyptians who marry a westerner against the family wishes will also marry an Egyptian too at some point in the future to satisfy the family.
 

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Posted by unsure (Member # 12244) on :
 
There is always the possibility. My friend and her fiance had problems with the fiance's mother because the mom was afraid that the american wife would not treat her son with respect, didn't know how the family would make it without him, americans don't like muslims, she was afraid for him in the USA, etc. He is the eldest child with 6 brothers and his father is deceased. So he is the breadwinner of the family. I honestly dont know what happened but the mom has accepted her son's fiance but it took a while over a year. Wish you luck. I believe if my girlfriend's fiance moim can change anyone's mother can change. Good Luck.
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by unsure:
There is always the possibility. My friend and her fiance had problems with the fiance's mother because the mom was afraid that the american wife would not treat her son with respect, didn't know how the family would make it without him, americans don't like muslims, she was afraid for him in the USA, etc. He is the eldest child with 6 brothers and his father is deceased. So he is the breadwinner of the family. I honestly dont know what happened but the mom has accepted her son's fiance but it took a while over a year. Wish you luck. I believe if my girlfriend's fiance moim can change anyone's mother can change. Good Luck.

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You don`t know what happened to the mother? I`ll tell you. The son was the eldest son and breadwinner, so that makes him head of the family.The son shall prefer to make his mom co-operate in a gentle way. he can do this, because the mother nearly don`t leave their houses and don`t know anything about what`s happening outside. So, he will convince her, and she will believe him, because she is depended on him and his money. She probably will accept anything from her son.
I know mothers who accept foreign daughters in law temporary, Egyptian daughters in law after that, and bastard children born out of illegitimate relationships at the same time! Because he brings in the money....
At the same times she is telling his brothers to behave decent and marrie a Egyptian wife. Because they don`t bring in money...
So hypocrite it can be...
The one who brings in the money can do whatever he likes, when he likes, where-ever he likes.And he will be praised by taking care of his family and his children. Even if that means he is not faithfull to any woman and he is living haram...
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
???? - Thank you for your comments and I know that I have to give me and him some distance. I could tell you more about the situation and why I do believe his intentions towards me but don't want to give out mine and his life story over the net, I repect myself and him to do that. I am feeling very hurt at the moment because if he knew of his families values why did he get into a relationship with me? Yes, I know the answers but it still doesn't stop me from hurting.

Ayisha - No I haven't met his family, the marriage think was something that me and him discussed between ourselves.
I do believe that if they were to meet me that they could possibly change their attitude towards me, this is something that he says that if they are to meet with me then he is sure that everything would be ok, but he can't even take me to meet with them because they won't even allow for him to do that.

We had planned to live in the UK because I feel that I can't up root my 2 children from their home, I also have financial commitments here.

Yes, he is muslim and I am not.

I know that the question that I put forward probably has been asked a million times before but just wanted some advice and the view point of others.

I understand that his family will be wary of me and my intentions just as me and my family are wary of his. I think that one of the main issues that his family have is I have previously been married before and am now divorced - they might think that I will do the same to their son, if only they knew the reasons why I eventually divorced, but then they might think that I should have accepted my ex-husbands behaviour towards me.

I believe that his family are worried that once he marries me that he will not be able to provide financially for them. He seems to work just to send money home for them. He is 28 years old but I don't think that he is the oldest son. I understand the viewpoint that if they marry a westerner that at somepoint they will also marry an Egyptian just to satisfy the family. However, I do believe that if he was to marry me and make our life together that it would mean that all ties with his family are broken and that they would not want anymore to do with him, he would be the so called 'Black Sheep' of the family.

I am now going to have some me time with my 2 children and if this guy contacts me when he reaches his decision then great, but if not I have to get on with my life and become another statistic in the statistics of foreigners falling for egyptian men!
 

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Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
 
miss sharm, I sent you a pm
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ?????:
Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ayisha:
miss sharm, I sent you a pm

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Ayisha, I have sent you a pm as well! Thanks for your advice and concerns, keep in touch, Amanda x
 

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Posted by unsure (Member # 12244) on :
 
I agree with you ????? because my girlfriend said that her fiance said that when he come to USA and work that he will send money to his family and that he doesn't want kids because he has to support his family. She doesn't want any babies either because she has preteenagers. I try to talk to her about that but her mind is made up. I just couldn't support his family for life.
 

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Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by unsure:
I agree with you ????? because my girlfriend said that her fiance said that when he come to USA and work that he will send money to his family and that he doesn't want kids because he has to support his family. She doesn't want any babies either because she has preteenagers. I try to talk to her about that but her mind is made up. I just couldn't support his family for life.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ?????:
In serious relationships he wants you to meet his family as a start, so that he will know if you will be accepted or not.
After that he or his family will not accept any financial support, because it is the honor of the man that he takes care of his family.
If you bring presents for the family they will give you something in return, even it`s their last money.
If you go out with him it will always be with an 3rd person to occur temptation.
The men pay for everything, even if they have less money then you have.
You become a member of the family.
You are being protected against other men, and this includes your freedom will reduce. Your safeness and your wellness is the responsibility from the family now.
The most easy way to do this is to keep you in the safety of their houses. If he really cares for you and loves you, he and another male will take you out regularry.
It will become your obligation to take care for the family in housekeeping. In fact you have to do housework for his mother, and she will make the Egyptian way of living familiar to you.
from one side it feels warm and protected, from the other side, as an European woman, you have to hand in much from yourself. You`re not an individual anymore, you`re part of a family.
With a head of the family, who takes decisions.
This is very difficult for somebody who is born and raised as an indivudual independant person.
Sometimes young men are frustrated by all that family-rules. By every problem the family is involved and you never can make decisions of your own.Grandmothers are making decisions for their adult sons! The only way to escape from this is to make a lot of money so that will make the family quiet, and accepting everything you do.In fact money makes you independant, just like it`s used in Europe...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ?????:
[qb] Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

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Can you explain how serious relationships are treated in another way.....?
The only reason that we have discussed him coming to England is because of my 2 children, my financial committments I have here, my employment (was on benefits but from Monday now back in work). He talked to me very early on about wanting me to live in Sharm with him, so I am sorry but i do believe him when he says that he does not want to come to the UK.
I am sure he could make a living in England, but why would he not be in a serious relationship with me if we were married? I thought that marriage was a way of committing yourself to the other. If he was going to use me temporarily, then why didn't he marry me when I was there in August to start the visa process? I think that he does love me and want to be with me but I think he feels torn between me and his family.

Miss sharm, Plz stop. I have also read all of your posts in different topics. You keep posting to get any answer that is what you want to hear so you can hang on to this relationship. You posted why didnt he marry me when i was there, but yet in another post you said he had you sign papers so you can share an apartment together and he said this means your his "wife" and that all his friends think of you as his wife. In another post you said the same thing, that his family wouldnt accept you, this was prior to this. Are you going to keep going until you get the answers you want to hear? How can you give advice to other woman on here when you are just grasping at straws. You should stop blinding yourself to these signs and warning bells and beat feet as fast as you can. You said in another post that you are a kind hearted person,you probably are, and this is what the problem is.Many, many people mistake kindness for weakness and stupidity and they like to rip people like this to shreds. This is the quality that evil men and rotten con artists pray on. Plz step yourself out of this before we have to console you on here when your heart is ripped out. There are many wonderful men in this world who will not just tell you words of love but show you love. "Words are just words, they come out of a mans mouth and are gone on the wind, but actions will forever imprint themselves on your heart".

 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:

quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ?????:
[qb] Bringing in money makes you head of the family, don`t have to be the eldest son for that.
You talked about getting him to England, and that`s what he wants.
He can make a living in England, and not in a serious relationship with you. You are temporary usefull, nothing more.
Serious relationships are treatened in another way...

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Can you explain how serious relationships are treated in another way.....?
The only reason that we have discussed him coming to England is because of my 2 children, my financial committments I have here, my employment (was on benefits but from Monday now back in work). He talked to me very early on about wanting me to live in Sharm with him, so I am sorry but i do believe him when he says that he does not want to come to the UK.
I am sure he could make a living in England, but why would he not be in a serious relationship with me if we were married? I thought that marriage was a way of committing yourself to the other. If he was going to use me temporarily, then why didn't he marry me when I was there in August to start the visa process? I think that he does love me and want to be with me but I think he feels torn between me and his family.

Miss sharm, Plz stop. I have also read all of your posts in different topics. You keep posting to get any answer that is what you want to hear so you can hang on to this relationship. You posted why didnt he marry me when i was there, but yet in another post you said he had you sign papers so you can share an apartment together and he said this means your his "wife" and that all his friends think of you as his wife. In another post you said the same thing, that his family wouldnt accept you, this was prior to this. Are you going to keep going until you get the answers you want to hear? How can you give advice to other woman on here when you are just grasping at straws. You should stop blinding yourself to these signs and warning bells and beat feet as fast as you can. You said in another post that you are a kind hearted person,you probably are, and this is what the problem is.Many, many people mistake kindness for weakness and stupidity and they like to rip people like this to shreds. This is the quality that evil men and rotten con artists pray on. Plz step yourself out of this before we have to console you on here when your heart is ripped out. There are many wonderful men in this world who will not just tell you words of love but show you love. "Words are just words, they come out of a mans mouth and are gone on the wind, but actions will forever imprint themselves on your heart".

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quote:

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Originally posted by ?????:
It is sad! Really, women can`t make a realistic imagination of the issue themselves. They don`t know Arabic culture, and the place of the women in common in that culture, also don`t realize about the consequences for devorced women in that society. They don`t know how Arabic men think.Devorced women are being used as objects to have sex with! They already lost their virginity, so it isn`t that bad...
They`re blinded by only words.And they travel as willing subjects to a culture they can`t imagine...

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quote:

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Originally posted by spacedust:

quote:

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Originally posted by ?????:
It is sad! Really, women can`t make a realistic imagination of the issue themselves. They don`t know Arabic culture, and the place of the women in common in that culture, also don`t realize about the consequences for devorced women in that society. They don`t know how Arabic men think.Devorced women are being used as objects to have sex with! They already lost their virginity, so it isn`t that bad...
They`re blinded by only words.And they travel as willing subjects to a culture they can`t imagine...

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Yes,this is true with the uneducated. I know of and have been told stories as you describe above. One woman's husband died and not even one month later there were six supposed suitors waiting like cats in heat.

It is so different with educated and sucessful women. They defo call the shots.

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If there is no family to protect, these things happen...
 

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Posted by lombardo47 (Member # 12428) on :
 
Micky azzam- You are right 100 percent and am wiz u .God bless you and wish u a good life wiz ur husband forever.
 

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Posted by micky azzam (Member # 11209) on :
 
thankyou same to you
 

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Posted by unsure (Member # 12244) on :
 
Micky it is so evident you MISINTERPRETED my post I said my friends fiance mother (which is EGYPTIAN) said "Americans don't like Muslims" and she changed her tune so I was not generalizing. I was letting Miss sharm know that family could change their mind about her.
 

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Posted by hollanda (Member # 1011) on :
 
Dear miss Sharm,

I think it'll not be easy at all but there is a possibility that your boyfriend can convince his family. I think they never stand up against their family! He will have to convince them if the two of you are strong enough to do this. Many replies i agree with especially when he is the 'head'of the family his opinion will be more strong in the family. I agree that you must also see it from their point of view because they don't know you and maybe they just heard many bad storied about western woman. It's very important to meet them but choose the right time for this. First let your boyfriend convince them about how you are and how you live your life. I must admitt that it'll be more hard when you already have children, this makes it more complicated. Even if you are the most loving person, it doesn't fit in the picture they imagined for their son. In europe most of the parents are also not jumping for joy when you tell them that you have a relationship with an Egyptian. They must be sure you are happy and that you are sure of this relationship. This your boyfriend must make clear to his family and after that you meet them and they have to trust you.
 

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Posted by mysticheart (Member # 6838) on :
 
well there is hope that he will stand up to them and say hey, i love her and i want her only her.
I just got off the phone with my boyfriend and he told me again that he will be traveling within the next couple weeks to aswan to his mother only to convince her and talk with her about me. He will go and tell her that he loves me and wants to marry only me no one else. His brother and a few of his male cousins have also met me. He has asked his brother to tell her how i am and how i love him. His brother really likes me and commented many times that i am more egyptian by nature than i ever could be american. He is also taking his cousins with him since they have met me and having them tell her of me too. He said tonight that everyone that met me including the italians told him that there is no way i am american, that i am far too quiet and polite. That i am egyptian by heart and the perfect one to be his wife. Lol i guess that his cousins and friends came with this during the times we went to his shop so he could deal with work and i sat behind his desk quietly waiting for him. I didnt talk to anyone unless they spoke to me and i made change for the employees to give to the customers but i didnt talk unnecessarily or interupt my love. I let him do as he needed and waited for him to finish. From this i guess they see me as not american but egyptian that i was able to do that and not complain or get up and visit with others around?? But it shows so much hope that he is going to talk to her and tell her that he wants only me and that he is having his brother speak with her and his cousins also. He wants to live in egypt together but has said that if i cant come right away then we will do our marriage and he will come here to stay with me for 6 months to see how things are here. If he likes it here then he will return to egypt to sell his businesses and finish things there, if he doesnt like it here then he will return to egypt and we will take turns spending time in each place together until i can move there.
Miss Sharm hold onto the hope. He loves you from what you have told me and as long as you stay by his side and show him you love him then he will have reason to fight for you.
Get contact with him again and stop the time thinking about what to do and concentrate on the fact that you love each other.
Most of all Pray dear girl, pray with all you have inside, allah god whatever name you call him by, he will be by you and help you through it all.
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
Will Egyptian men ever stand up to their family? -Everyone on ES i just want to tell you that in the case of my Egyptian guy that I have been asking for advice over, that the answer is NO he will not stand up to his family, but will lie to them about me and who I am! I have taken some time out away from the situation and thought very hard about me, him, our lives, etc. I have now reached the conclusion that I he has been leading me up the garden path! When I look back it was only words from him and never showed me his love by his actions. If I hadn't asked him the question about his family knowing about me he would still be trying to deceive me and tell me more and more lies each day. I am sure that already he is on to his next victim telling them the same stories he told me. I have learnt a very hard lesson but with time and the great support from friends and family will get over my pain and hurt. I would just like to say thank you to everyone on ES that has shown me support and given me advice, even though the advice at times was maybe not what I wanted to hear it did eventually bring me to my senses. If some good has come out of it though I have met some wonderful friends here on ES and I am sure I will be in contact with you all for a very long time. Thank you.

If I keep on smiling I am sure the sun will shine on me one day soon!

Take care, Amanda x x

p.s. Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Russain gigolo website so I can put the details of that guy on it?!
 

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Posted by crazypolly (Member # 12074) on :
 
Hi Miss Sharm,

I'm sure you've made the right decision you must follow your heart and your head even if it's hard. That russian website your asking about was on somebody elses thread sorry can't remember who but its www.dezy-house.ru that will teach him. Goodluck I'm sure the sun will come out again and if you ever need to chat let me know. Take care x
 

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Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:

p.s. Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Russain gigolo website so I can put the details of that guy on it?!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
Listen, your relationship is over with him, he didn't use you, he didn't ask for money, clothes, visa etc. or did he? If you had sex you both wanted it. Remember the good times you had with him, nothing else and move on. But don't be mean even if you feel right now he hurted your pride by not moving on with the plans you both made together.

Give him the benefit of the doubt that he cares about and loves you ....... but because of cultural differences he can't make it work after all. And it doesn't make him less of a man. [/QB]

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Sorry but I do not agree with you Tigerlily, he has used me for what he could get and that does inlcude money, clothes and would probably have meant a visa eventually! He lied to his family about me and even when I was there in August told them that I was staying at the hotel he works at and not in the apartment we where sharing together. Perhaps he did love and care for me but I truly do doubt that, if he knew that his family wouldn't accept me marrying him then why get yourself involved with a foreigner. If I hadn't approached the subject with him I honestly believe that he would never have told me and would still have me believe that we could live happily ever after! Anyway I am getting on with my life and putting it all down to experience and I believe the experiences that we go through in our lives make us the people that we are. I will keep smiliing because I know that I have a lot to be happy about.

Amanda x
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
I won't be putting his details on the Russian website because I would like to think that I am a not a hateful person. I am sure you can appreciate that I am hurting at the moment because of what has happened but I have seen the light and this guys intentions where not as I originally thought. I will let others find out what he his like and when I see that they have posted his details on the Russian website then I will be laughing! I am just pleased that I have listened to others warnings and taken their advice on, at least I hadn't given everything up in the UK to be with this guy in Egypt!
 

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Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Sorry but I do not agree with you Tigerlily, he has used me for what he could get and that does inlcude money, clothes and would probably have meant a visa eventually! He lied to his family about me and even when I was there in August told them that I was staying at the hotel he works at and not in the apartment we where sharing together.

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Well, I don't think you posted the above details before (besides he had problems to break this relationship to his family) so of course these things totally change the view of your relationship with him.

Hell yes, you are better off without him. If I'd be you I wouldn't waste a single thought about him anymore, post a thread or run after him. It's obvious he used you.

Good luck in the future!
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
I did post the details before about how he had used me for money and clothes when I visited in August but understand that there are so many postings on ES that you can't remember everything. I know that he doesn't care about me as he had me believe he has proven that to me this week! Life goes on and with this experience I know that it will make me a stronger person.

Amanda x
 

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Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 
Great, Amanda, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. All the best!
 

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Posted by Bronzed Adonis (Member # 12416) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:

If I keep on smiling I am sure the sun will shine on me one day soon!

Take care, Amanda x x

p.s. Does anyone know how to get in contact with the Russain gigolo website so I can put the details of that guy on it?!

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Very wise words. From the look of your photo on another thread, your smile will cause positivly tropical weather!

Can you direct me to the gigolo website please? Might be the only way I get a bird these days!

BA x
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
Bronzed Adonis - Are you trying to chat me up?

The russian website is www.dezy-house.ru, but it is to warn others about the gigolos that you can come across in Egypt or Turkey. Are you saying that you think that your details should be contained on this website? Any sensible woman would not want to me meet with any of the guys that are listed on there!

Amanda x
 

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Posted by Tream Lefty (Member # 6244) on :
 
Miss Sharm,

I'm really sorry about what happened to you with the Egyptian guy, but applaud your strength at letting him go.

Egypt is a poor, developing country, and makes sense that many men, especially in the resort areas, are looking for a way out. Not condoning their behavior, just giving a reason for it.

That being said, that is exactly why so many posters here go on and on about how a typical Egyptian man is supposed to act. How it's his culture to pay for everything, how he's not supposed to really date before marriage, how his family is extremely important to him and it's typical to meet the family before getting engaged. When dealing with a foreign culture, these *stereotypes* of decent Egyptian male behavior are sometimes the *only* indicators of whether a man has good intentions or bad.

It's sad because it doesn't leave room for individuality, which we as Westerners highly value. I'm sure there are wonderful honest, decent Egyptian men in the resort towns. I know a couple of people here who have married men from Luxor, Hurgada, etc., and who are genuinely happy. But when there is such an outrageously huge disparity in income levels between an average Egyptian man and an average Western woman, it can be difficult to ascertain if the man's intentions are genuine or not.
 

---

Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Egypt doesn`t have a society based on individuality. You`re member of a group.
When you want to be an individual, you`ll have a problem. All what I do, ask, say etc. is related to my family. So, if I do wrong, the head of my family will be informed and he has to take action. If I do good, he will be informed to, and it will make him very happy.
That doesn`t mean there is no space at all for individual development, but there is always a contribution to make...
 

---

Posted by LaZeeZ (Member # 10655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:
Miss Sharm,

I'm really sorry about what happened to you with the Egyptian guy, but applaud your strength at letting him go.

Egypt is a poor, developing country, and makes sense that many men, especially in the resort areas, are looking for a way out. Not condoning their behavior, just giving a reason for it.

That being said, that is exactly why so many posters here go on and on about how a typical Egyptian man is supposed to act. How it's his culture to pay for everything, how he's not supposed to really date before marriage, how his family is extremely important to him and it's typical to meet the family before getting engaged. When dealing with a foreign culture, these *stereotypes* of decent Egyptian male behavior are sometimes the *only* indicators of whether a man has good intentions or bad.

It's sad because it doesn't leave room for individuality, which we as Westerners highly value. I'm sure there are wonderful honest, decent Egyptian men in the resort towns. I know a couple of people here who have married men from Luxor, Hurgada, etc., and who are genuinely happy. But when there is such an outrageously huge disparity in income levels between an average Egyptian man and an average Western woman, it can be difficult to ascertain if the man's intentions are genuine or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:
Many of those relationships are between people who are useing each other. There's so little or 'no' concern about 'knowing' each other. For one the sex is good and for the other the money is good.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

I have seen some gurls who sleep with guys they don't understand one single sentence of what they say. The guys eventually dumped the gurls and the gurls went crying.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:


But I get the feeling that most women who are posting here are looking for a genuine relationship/marriage with their Egyptian man. And in that context, they are very susceptible to getting hurt emotionally.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:


But I get the feeling that most women who are posting here are looking for a genuine relationship/marriage with their Egyptian man. And in that context, they are very susceptible to getting hurt emotionally.

---

I don't count much on the stories here because at the end they are one side stories. What I count on is what I have seen by my eyes. There are many looking for 'geniune' relationships from both sides but there are SO MANY who will visit here, see a guy they think they can't get one as handsome back home and sleep with him in a couple of days. They will do anything to please the guy and it will seem like they are looking for geniune relationship, but how did this all start?. I don't think a relationship based on looks or sex is much different from that based on money.

Here you will hear about 'ringing bells' whenever money is mentioned in a relationship but those bells don't seem to work when a woman lives with a guy she knew for a couple of days and knows nothing about him except that his looks are great.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

---

I have seen relationships which started based on 'Visa or money' for 'looks' and evolved to be very happy love marriages. The thing which brought them together was not a genuine 'look' for love but an obsession or a need which turned to love eventually but most of the time it doesn't turn that way when either of the partners can't seem to find the other one suitable for them or they find a more qualified partner in this area and at this point they dump them.

Real love, to me, isn't any sort of feelings developed for someone else. You can develop feelings on any ground but as long as you don't know exactly 'who' you're loving, to me, it's not REAL. Call it a fling, lust or desperation or even love but not REAL love.

Are most of the relationships between tourists and Egyptians based on two invidiuals coming together, admiring each other and developing love by knowing each other? I don't think so.

Relationships here between TOURISTS -remember again they are tourists- and Egyptians are usualy based on grounds such as lust and benefits.

Because the guy's needs, in this relationships, are obviously materialistic, it's easier to spot him as the liar irresponsible who doesn't care, and no one notice that the gurl too developed those feelings because she was desperate to have 'something' she liked. I call it 'something' because the person side of 'him', she didn't get to know. so, in away they both developed feelings for 'something' .

When a woman come here and cry for loseing a guy she didn't know, it brings to me the question, what did she lose which makes her cry? obviously not the person. You can't lose something you didn't acknowledge. what was it then?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LaZeeZ:

When a woman come here and cry for loseing a guy she didn't know, it brings to me the question, what did she lose which makes her cry? obviously not the person. You can't lose something you didn't acknowledge. what was it then?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

---

Why you are saying this? Many people falling in love during a vacation somewhere else and they don't all have 'issues'! Actually it's a well-known fact and not a phenomen. You are implementing that these people are not emotional stable and have maybe even other things going on.

Thanks god that I didn't open up this thread, I would feel hurted by your words. You know sometimes you can't explain things logically, especially when it comes to love, nothing is black or white. Miss Sharm's story is one of many and something like this would have probably never happened to you but people live life and not everyone is calculating the if's and the when's. Foreign women want to make these kind of relationships work even if they are crossing oceans, cultures, social boundries - and even if it's 'only' a resort worker they fell in love with in the first place.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just:
http://community.lawyers.com/members/profile.asp?userid=150486

sonomod
Consumer

Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.

Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.

Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:
QUOTE]It's very true that these stories are one-sided. I've never *seen* one of these relationships start, so I have absolutely no idea what is involved. Some women who go searching for love in a resort town might not be the most emotionally-healthy people, but it doesn't mean they aren't genuinely looking for their soul mates. (They just aren't going about it in the smartest manner.)

There was a very interesting article in Vanity Fair a few months ago, about the culture surrounding the Dahab bombings. One piece of the article focused on a young resort worker who had travelled to Sharm, I think, to find work from his own rural town. It traced his hopes and his failures - bribing people just to get a busboy job in a restaurant, only to never make as much in one season as the bribe his family paid.

In Sharm, he met a Canadian woman with whom he maintained correspondence for months. He told the reporter he was truly in love with this woman, but after a while she stopped writing back. He was heartbroken. It was the first time I'd seen the man's side of the story. And while his relationship/feelings with the foreigner may not have started out on the purest of terms (he freely admitted to wanting to get out of Egypt because he couldn't find work), I think his feelings seemed real.

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tream Lefty:

My point is I think most people have *issues,* but it doesn't mean they aren't looking for real love.

---

Why you are saying this? Many people falling in love during a vacation somewhere else and they don't all have 'issues'! Actually it's a well-known fact and not a phenomen. You are implementing that these people are not emotional stable and have maybe even other things going on.

Thanks god that I didn't open up this thread, I would feel hurted by your words. You know sometimes you can't explain things logically, especially when it comes to love, nothing is black or white. Miss Sharm's story is one of many and something like this would have probably never happened to you but people live life and not everyone is calculating the if's and the when's. Foreign women want to make these kind of relationships work even if they are crossing oceans, cultures, social boundries - and even if it's 'only' a resort worker they fell in love with in the first place.

---

You are taking this out of context; it doesn't relate to Miss Sharm's original question or even the fact she decided to stop seeing the guy she met. It is within the context of the discussion I'm having with Lazeez, so please take it as such.

And what you call *love,* I call *lust.* I cannot fathom that someone truly falls in love on a short vacation. A person might plant the seeds for a true love to grow, but that's a different story.

---

Good, one more time, as you say I took something "out of context".

For me your point sounds 'they are nutsy but they are no whor** either".

I get the impression that you are actually amused about these women who fall for the poor resort workers.

You know everything from the internet and you even read something in a magazine. But you know what? The best way to understand what these women go through you actually have to have experienced it yourself.

And please, don't tell me you were in love with your current husband on the first date, love has to develop.

Also I am sure you kissed some frogs before you finally kissed a prince.

Thanks god you are smarter than many other women who run after poor-paid resort workers.

And luckily there are happy stories of couples out but you won't read about them in Vanity fair.
 

---

Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just:
http://community.lawyers.com/members/profile.asp?userid=150486

sonomod
Consumer

Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.

Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.

Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.

---

Again I met my ex husband in person, not over the internet and not on vacation.

He was already in the USA and legal. He didn't need to get into the USA nor need me to stay in the USA.

Tigerweed, get over it.

---

Are you talking to me? Do you seriously believe this is me? I would think that there are some other people out there who can work with a search engine on Google too.

But I know it's your favorite subject of letting everyone know is that you found your Egyptian Pharaoh in the States and so on ......yawn yawn ..... nothing new I am afraid.

Get over with it, you are divorced, your husband is gone, your child is gone even much longer .....
 

---

Posted by Samarra_Anissa (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Samarra_Anissa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just:
http://community.lawyers.com/members/profile.asp?userid=150486

sonomod
Consumer

Married 10/14/01, had I-485 Marriage interview in September 12, 2002 after filing the marriage peitition in January 2002.

Recently filed the I-751 in June 2004, waiting for conditional status to removed in order to file N-400.

Lots of restrictions, I am secondary sponsor as a wife. Must continue college and eventually finish my BS. Plus work in order to earn a minuim of a yearly salary.

---

Again I met my ex husband in person, not over the internet and not on vacation.

He was already in the USA and legal. He didn't need to get into the USA nor need me to stay in the USA.

Tigerweed, get over it.

---

Are you talking to me? Do you seriously believe this is me? I would think that there are some other people out there who can work with a search engine on Google too.

But I know it's your favorite subject of letting everyone know is that you found your Egyptian Pharaoh in the States and so on ......yawn yawn ..... nothing new I am afraid.

Get over with it, you are divorced, your husband is gone, your child is gone even much longer .....

---

And lying about your husband's career and education doesn't help you either.

Now for Tigerweed's insistance on her husband's "masters degree" in military leadership.

http://www2.hsc.edu/wilsoncenter/pubserv/ml-nss.html

ampden-Sydney College used the occasion of its "War on Terrorism: 3 Years After" to unveil a new military leadership and national security studies certificate program. The program is designed for students who are interested in the historical, political and ethical dimensions of national security policy as well as the place and role of the military in American society.

Students may apply for admission to the program during the fall semester of their sophomore year. For more information, contact Dr. Simms at Morton Hall, room 319.

Students enrolled in the military leadership and national security studies program must complete one required course during each of their final three years at Hampden-Sydney College:
* The Military and American Democracy (sophomore year)
* Military History (junior year)
* Leadership and Ethics (senior year)

As you can see on the right hand side there is a class of 2006, 2007 and 2008.

Tigerweed's husband has been deployed for a few years now and wouldn't be stateside in order to attend college.

Now about making up lies and then backing up other egy-board members who constantly lie..... Well they have a tendancy to back each other up continueously no matter how bamboozled their lies become. The truth doesn't matter to them because a lack thereof is what builds their cohesiveness!
 

---

Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
Is it not possible now to go on a thread and find Samara_Anissa is slagging someone else off!
Samara_Anissa get a life and let others on ES get on with theirs without interferring in it, when we want your opinion we will ask for it, but until any of us do please shut up!
 

---

Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
 
Don't worry, Miss Sharm, she doesn't know any details about my husband's profession. It's all up in her mind. Hence she doesn't even believe up until this day that actually US soldiers are down stationed in Sinai......

Sono, anything else to post in my matter? I am waiting for the big thing, something more exciting, please do so. You are allowed.

Oh and now back to the topic!
 

---

Posted by Samarra_Anissa (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:
Don't worry, Miss Sharm, she doesn't know any details about my husband's profession. It's all up in her mind. Hence she doesn't even believe up until this day that actually US soldiers are down stationed in Sinai......

Sono, anything else to post in my matter? I am waiting for the big thing, something more exciting, please do so. You are allowed.

Oh and now back to the topic!

---

you lied about your husband's education, I am just shoving it in your face!

And the troops in Sinai are multinational not just US troops. That was cleared up on that thread.

Miss. SHarm if I don't outline the history of lies and buddy-buddy making for the sole purpose of a gaggle of females covering for each other new usernames will blindly believe whatever they are told.

Someone needs to point out the falicies!

In the meantime does anyone take interest, positive interest in Egypt as a nation and not a sex destination?
 

---

Posted by Tream Lefty (Member # 6244) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

For me your point sounds 'they are nutsy but they are no whor** either".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

I get the impression that you are actually amused about these women who fall for the poor resort workers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

You know everything from the internet and you even read something in a magazine. But you know what? The best way to understand what these women go through you actually have to have experienced it yourself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

And please, don't tell me you were in love with your current husband on the first date, love has to develop.

---

That's exactly what I said in my previous post. I can't fathom people thinking they fall in love immediately. It takes time and shared experiences.

This is why I'm doubting your reading comprehension skills recently.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tigerlily:

Also I am sure you kissed some frogs before you finally kissed a prince.

Thanks god you are smarter than many other women who run after poor-paid resort workers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Bronzed Adonis - Are you trying to chat me up?

Amanda x

---

Who me?

BA x
 

---

Posted by Samarra_Anissa (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ?????:
Is it really so important to you all, getting to know who is the person behind the nickname?

---

Because some of us, a think minority actually have this Egyptian/Westerner relationship in every aspect of our lives. Its not a online affair, a vacation romance; its a daily thing and will be a part of us for the rest of our lives.

I hate to use this type of analogy but....:

Think if it as you've lost a limb. You had your leg or arm amputated and you must get used to a prosthesis and go through rehabilitation.

Seriously a cross-cultural marriage when it happens just like a marriage in which the person who is the same faith and lives in your community is a massively life altering event.

Then you have some woman who claims she had the same life altering event but its a mole on her face. Yeah like how the pompous French Royals would powder their face and stick gems or metal stars on their face and call it a beauty mark!

So thats how I see it. Something that can be removed, washed off, costumes put away in the closet and pretend like it never happened versus having a limb removed.

Its irritating.

I ran across a few of these "vacation wives" in Alex during my last trip. I wasn't in tiptop condition and my jaw was throbbing. I seen the Orfi wife and her husband, trying their best to chat it up with a fellow American, my mother.

Yeah I was rude. But half way through the tour my sister in-law and brother in-law finally caught on to why it bothered me so much.

Finally after 3 hours, my Mother ran into this couple like 6 times she finally blurted out that the Orfi husband gave her the creeps and there is something wrong with him. The Orfi husband asked a number of "financial questions" and wanted to hook my mother up with his cousin. Somehow this didn't bother his American Orfi wife in the least. This a-hole wanted my mother to invest in his cousins business and see how "she liked him".

It made me sick.

After that point my in-laws and I did our best to build space between these "orfi" type young men and my mother. Loads of gigilo looking a-holes were trying to speak with my mother. They assumed that an older woman who appears to be financially comfortable would be interested. They assumed that since I was married to an Egyptian that I and my in-laws wouldn't take offense.

Not all Egyptian/Westerners see it the same way.
 

---

Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Hi,

Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?

I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.

I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.

He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.

This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.

I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.

I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.

Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?

Amanda x

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Hi,

Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?

I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.

I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.

He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.

This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.

I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.

I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.

Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?

Amanda x

---

Hello Ms. Sharm

I was told about that site and It was interesting to go their and read what people think of us as Egyptian MAN  and how bad we are?  "That really aggravated me so much"
My answer is: we are not all bad and also we are not all of us good. Same as all other European or western man they also have bad and good.
But defiantly we are good in treating ladies. And that is the different.
Dear any situation always have two side, so the best way always some times to get away from your side and tray to be in his side and see the relation with his eyes but to do that you have to know very good the Egyptian culture and how we think about, love, ladies and family and what that means for us? And if you mange to do that, you will get the answer you looking for and than all what you need to do just go for it.
And your second inquiry about do the family prefers a western lady or an Arabic lady?
Very simple if you ask any parents western or Egyptian they will always prefer a man or lady from same culture but that not means they will not accept the choice, they will but need some works and get their heart and after that they will be your parents for really.
Love means sunshine, means respect, means care… means always have hope and just enjoy life and never let the sadness or hurt to get into your heart open your eyes and see the sunshine of life not the darkness of life, do not think we all looking for the green, blue, red what ever the passport color is….. Because the best color is green and that is the great Egypt passport. Tell me where you can find the moon shining on the great Nile? Except in Egypt so why any one will need any other passport?

Wish you all happen and really that you can make your dream come true…..
 

---

Posted by Samarra_Anissa (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ahly:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Hi,

Do Egyptian men ever stand up to their family because they want to be with the love of their life?

I am asking because my guy and me are going through the issue of his family do not accept me even though they haven't met me yet! They want him to marry an arab girl because of traditional values, they say she will look after him and it won't cause any complications.

I understand that his family want to keep things in Egypt and want to impose their values and beliefs onto him, but it just seems that he won't stand up to them. I have told him that I feel used by him because he must have been aware of their beliefs when he met me and that he wouldn't be allowed to be in a relationship with me and marry. How long did he really think that he could keep up the pretence that everything was ok forget to mention that I would not be accepted by the family.

He has said that he has spoken to them and told them that it is his life but the family won't accept this. I am trying to see it from their point of view and do understand how they must be viewing me as a divorced/single parent with 2 children.

This week I have had many long conversations with my guy and he does not know what to do - he wants to be with me and make a life together, but also feels a lot of respect towards his family. He is now even considering leaving from Sharm el Sheikh to go to another town because he has memories of me and him being in Sharm together and being very, very happy. He has even considered leaving Egypt all together and going to live in another arabic country. I have told him that he is running away form the situation and he needs to confront it. I feel that I am in a no win situation with his family because they won't let him be with me, then if he decides to leave from Egypt they still won't like me because I have made him leave from his country. He says that he wants to be with me more than anything and that if he can't his family will have killed him. He also does not want to marry an arab girl as he says there will be no love or feeling there from him.

I could go on and on explaining the situation more to you all but I think that you have got the idea of it.

I am now giving him the space to think and reach his decision and can only wait and hope that he will contact me. This situation is causing me and him so much pain when we seem to have had so many dreams together.

Do you think that he will ever stand up to his family?

Amanda x

---

Hello Ms. Sharm

I was told about that site and It was interesting to go their and read what people think of us as Egyptian MAN  and how bad we are?  "That really aggravated me so much"
My answer is: we are not all bad and also we are not all of us good. Same as all other European or western man they also have bad and good.
But defiantly we are good in treating ladies. And that is the different.
Dear any situation always have two side, so the best way always some times to get away from your side and tray to be in his side and see the relation with his eyes but to do that you have to know very good the Egyptian culture and how we think about, love, ladies and family and what that means for us? And if you mange to do that, you will get the answer you looking for and than all what you need to do just go for it.
And your second inquiry about do the family prefers a western lady or an Arabic lady?
Very simple if you ask any parents western or Egyptian they will always prefer a man or lady from same culture but that not means they will not accept the choice, they will but need some works and get their heart and after that they will be your parents for really.
Love means sunshine, means respect, means care… means always have hope and just enjoy life and never let the sadness or hurt to get into your heart open your eyes and see the sunshine of life not the darkness of life, do not think we all looking for the green, blue, red what ever the passport color is….. Because the best color is green and that is the great Egypt passport. Tell me where you can find the moon shining on the great Nile? Except in Egypt so why any one will need any other passport?

Wish you all happen and really that you can make your dream come true…..

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ahly, does the Egyptian husband have a responsibility to learn about her culture?
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
sure, it will never ever work unless both learn both culture and respect both culture
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
I have never tried to disrespect Egyptian men or Egyptian women, it is just unfortunate that I have had a bad experience with an Egyptian guy who I met whilst I was on holiday. If you read my posts from before ahly you will see why I have come to the conclusion that I was never going to get the support and actions that I deserved from this guy. He has not only lied to me but also lied to his family about me. I know that it would be difficult for me to be accepted in Egypt due to my situation being divorced with 2 children but as we know until we actually meet a person then a judgement upon them should not be made. I have not done anything to this guy to to deserve to be treated badly and used by him. I am only pleased that I found out now before I gave him the opportunity for things to develop further between us. I would also like to point out that I did not go on holiday with the intention meeting and falling in love with an Egyptian guy, that was the last thing on my mind. I don't think that I need to travel all the way to Egypt to find someone to be with! Anyway I would just like to say to everyone on here who has sent me words of support that I really appreciate your kindness and it as helped me to get through this difficult time. I will come through this situation and I know in my heart that 2007 is going to be a good year for me and can't wait to spend the new year with a very special person.

Amanda x x
 

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Posted by Samarra_Anissa (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
I have never tried to disrespect Egyptian men or Egyptian women, it is just unfortunate that I have had a bad experience with an Egyptian guy who I met whilst I was on holiday. If you read my posts from before ahly you will see why I have and why I have come to the conclusion that I was never going to get the support and actions that I deserved from him. He has not only lied to me but also lied to his family about me. I know that it would be difficult for me to be accepted in Egypt due to my situation being divorced with 2 children but as we know until we actually meet a person then a judgement upon them should not be made. I would also like to point out that I did not go on holiday with the intention meeting and falling in love with an Egyptian guy, that was the last thing on my mind. Anyway I would just like to say to everyone on here who has sent me words of support that I really appreciate your kindness and it as helped me to get through this difficult time. I will come through this situation and I know in my heart that 2007 is going to be a good year for me and can't wait to spend the new year with a very special person.

Amanda x x

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quote:

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Originally posted by Miss Sharm:
Samara_Anissa - Please explain yourself further!

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Seriously there are a number of foreign female usernames who are divorced mothers.

They have posted that having children from a previous marriage isn't an obstacle. They have posted that their egy-guys have fallen in love with their children, even though they haven't met in person!

WHy are you different?
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
I never said that I was different or wanted to be treated differently by anybody. It is just that when I posted the question on ES asking if I would ever be accepted by his family that quite a few members said that it would be difficult because I was divorced and had children! Then others said that if he loved me that he would fight to be with me no matter what my situation was and he would explain all to his family. He has decided that he does not want to fight to be with me because that is too hard for him to do, he has chosen to please his family and will now eventually marry a traditional arab girl. To those divorced women on ES who have children from a previous marriage and are with an egy guy and have been accepted then I wish them all the best of luck and they are lucky that they have been accepted into the family. I don't really need to explain myself to you any further Samara_Anissa because this has nothing now to do with the original posting and I only posted yesterday to let everyone know on ES that I had made the decision to finish the relationship as I was not prepared to be lied to anymore and to be taken for the fool that he thought I was. Anyway I will have the last laugh because if it wasn't for me meeting the guy from Egypt in April I would not be in the happy situation that I am in now!
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
I will not be posting anymore now tonight as I have to go to bed to sleep because I have work in the morning! I am sure that you will continue to post nonsense though Samara_Anissa, believe me if any of it is directly aimed at me I will be back tomorrow to fight back at you because you know nothing about me or my life and I don't know what you think gives you the right to judge people on the few words that we write.
 

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Posted by Alchemist (Member # 12318) on :
 
Miss Sharm,

It sounds like you are doing a lot better, I am happy for that. Don't let other people drag you down with their words. Their lives are unhappy and they want to spread this to others. I call these people the soul-suckers. Anyways it sounds like you have found someone else now and I wish you nothing but happiness!
Sarah
 

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Posted by lombardo47 (Member # 12428) on :
 
Samara- why u r juddging people without knowing them .
Bec a woman was married before and has children then she will never marry again .wots this logic ?

A woman came from uk to egypt for a vacation and she met a stupid man and he lied to her
now u r blaming her bec she has a white heart and she is kind bec she loved him !!
come on samara ,she didnt work as a prostitue ( sorry miss sharm) she just loved a guy bec she is senstive and every woman needs a tender hands
samara ,take it easy tiger
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Al Ahly,
As always the medal has two sides, maybe you can try to step into HER shoes? I can imagine all the doubts women have, everybody knows the stories, and say for yourself: What kind of men are working in the Red Sea district? There are blacklists with horrible stories from women who lost everything...
Instead of expecting to step in your shoes, maybe its better to try hers...
 

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Posted by Bubblesperson (Member # 12454) on :
 
Hi dear All!!!

Just a quick word on those 'Black Lists' on the Net... Having lived on the Red Sea (mainly Hurghada) for 5 years solid (lately now going back and forth) I have had the (NOT) pleasure of knowing the female behind these.. (She started Kunstkamera on a Russian server, else it had been a crime in Egypt, nowadays she claims this has been 'taken over' by the Russian mafia who 'run those young men as a business for profit'(WTF????) and that they post some 'enemies' on there for fun; she then started the 2nd website, also on Russian server).

Knowing her (highly spiteful, bitter nature), her contemptous, belittling attitude towards all Egyptians, and knowing of the plus/minus 40 court cases she personally brought against various Egyptians due to some slight or supposed 'crime'(practically all lost... Naturally, she says that's due to bias, however, there are a LOT of foreigners who win their cases, if rightly brought), I personally take many of these black list cases with a pinch of salt - easy to write anything at all on the Net after all!!! Yes, some of those stories are absolutely true - I also happen to 'know' - many only by sight, some personally, some by reputation - most of the chaps listed, and yes, some of them ARE indeed very bad players/ liars out for personal gain. Semi-professionals, one could say, and here I always asked myself just HOW anyone can fall for these obvious sleazeballs...

However, there also happen to be cases of chaps who would not warrant being on such a list, but who have simply annoyed someone... In which case, ruining their reputation - possibly stopping them from being able to find jobs, even - is not a good or just thing at all. Not, of course, does such a listing allow for any kind of defense...

In any case, the female(s, there are 2 main ones) concerned are certainly quite brave, or just foolhardy, considering that I am not the only one by far who knows their real identity and their home address in Hurghada (including the security police, of course)- goes to show that Egyptians are not quite as bad as SHE daily states, after all, she's still there, happily posting away...

Just thought I mention that one ought not to take these sites as gospel truth, either, and try to be FAIR in one's judgment....
Bubble
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Bubbles,
Think you`re bringing more confusion then clearness in this way. I`m not a frequent tourist-area-visitor, and the times that I really have been there, I thought the guys were absolutely clear in their meanings. BUT, I`m used to Egyptians, and a tourist doesn`t know...
I can imagine the doubts, thats all...
 

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Posted by LaZeeZ (Member # 10655) on :
 
The black list is hilarous

Will help you if you have got no brains of your own and need SOMEONE else brains to lead you.

You can't trust the guy you're engaged to, fine, but you can trust another person who you have never seen before?!!
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
In fact thats all, LaZeez. Women are laying their whole selves into the hands of a man they barely know, based on trust given by words.They don`t know a thing! Not about the man himself, not about his family, not about the country, the culture, nothing...

One payed € 4.500,-- for a sportresort-area to a man she has only seen the 2 weeks on holiday.(Egypt is cheap, but not THAT cheap;))
Bye,bye, money and bye,bye lover...
Sometimes I have doubts about the braincapacity from that lady`s...
 

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Posted by SayWhatYouSee (Member # 11552) on :
 
?????

These kind of stories surface very occasionally in the British press too. Men exploit gullible women all over the world (and vice versa). Caveat emptor (buyer beware) might serve women better than posting on these websites.
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
I don`t know how these " psychological processes" are working. I really can`t imagine that anybody will trust a person who they have met on a holiday, during 2 weeks, and believe everything what is being told...
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
Ms. Sharm

First of all, I do support you and I never meant to hurt you or even to bring bad days or bad memory back. And for sure if he lie to you, he never deserve even to think about him or even remember him.
I apologize for me writing without reading all what you said? Because it was first time to me be their and also not quite sure how to read all? About the whole things.
Nothing is wrong that you are divorce and have kids, normal Egyptian man "not the one at the red sea resort" and family will accept you and your kids and they will treat you as part of the family.
Never look back love meant respect, means never lie, and mean never cheat, and mean never games.
Just be happy and really look to the future special Xmas coming soon and New Year
I hope the holydays spirit bring to your heart, your soul and your two angels all happiness. Yes go and enjoy 2007 with your new life.
I hope one day you come back to Egypt and can see the true Egyptian and Egypt away from the bad apples "special the one at the red sea resort" With my deep respect wish you all happiness and marry Xmas for you and your angles.
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
Ms.????

First of all I will never judge any person because it is not my right to do so, I can be their to listen and advise but never judge. Never and when I tray to advise I always but my self on both side situation and after that advise if I can and be honest doing that.

The problem I can see the majority are meeting Egyptian man at the red sea resort and that is the problems, the real problems because majority are coming from poor village and they are coming from very close community, means they leave I very hard restrict community with very old traditional life and rules. They may never saw a women feet's in their life and than they work at the resort where pretty European ladies laying on the beach "the become as a little kid in toy store before Xmas" there is million of tourist visit that sites so for them they learn the European style of just have fun and all goes away after the holidays. But never learn that he has to watch for people feelings and that not all are the same. And that is sad side because it leads to the situation where a lady got broken heart and bad reputation for us as Egyptian.

A small advice to all….. If an Egyptian man asks for you to pay for his cup of coffee, or ask for money, cloth, trip to meet you at your home and you pay all for him. Be sure 100% he is lier and playing a game. So stay away

We as Egyptian traditional raise to respect our self and we maintain our dignity and take care of family, friends and special ladies and the first rule; ladies never pay while they are with us as respect for her and also for our self, because that become disrespect for us as Egyptian man if she pay. "Sorry for the equal between man and women can be all but their staff men has to take care of her"
 

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Posted by lombardo47 (Member # 12428) on :
 
AHLY- I appreciate wot u wrote ,you are perfect .God bless YOU.

I feel soo sorry about miss sharm and other women who were victims to egyptian men ,just using them and and benefit from them.
Pls foreigners who are coming to egypt for a vacation or wot ever .Before loving an egyptian man ,just try first to know him better ,c if he is educated or not ,the way he thinks.Give your self a time to know each other.Better than regreting afterwards.There are a lot of good egyptian men ,well educated .
most of the Foeigners when they come 2 egypt ,they go out wiz the worse egyptian men in Egypt ,why i dunno .Please think many times before wot u r gonna do .

I wish all guys r like ahly .
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
Lombardo 47

Thank you so much for your kind words, dear I am not prefect because there is no perfect man "please believe me if any man said he is perfect be sure he is lier " , I have my own mistakes but I am man enough to admit I am wrong and easy can say sorry. I hate any one that can hurt any one feeling and that really can make me so angry. Any way thank you a lot for your kind words.
And I agree with you 100000% please tray to find all about the man before you are hocked with special from which part of Egypt he comes from "that show you what kinds of rules and traditional he was raise on" and his education level that can tell you if he really open minded and you both can respect each other culture and the most important compromise to make the boat goes for the future.
Lombardo 47 wish you happy holidays and marry xmas
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Ahly, Maybe I already have written to much topics, but one of them contains exactly the same message. And when you read further then you know why I know;)
I only wonder why you seem so touched by opinions about bad men? You don`t have to feel approached, you know who you are, what your intentions are, what`s good and what`s wrong...
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
Ms. ???

i just may be sentsive beacuse i am proud egyptian and love my country to death and can not see myself away from my love egypt at all. and feel sad when any egyptian give bad reptution about egypt while we are not like that.. that all
i never take the side of that bad men they play with ladies feeling for me they are near to be called a devil and really sad that they are egyptian came from same land that always give the light and civlization to the world years back.
but bad apple every where?
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Yes, but as long as you`re a good apple, you don`t have to care. Think that everybody knows about good and bad...
 

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Posted by lombardo47 (Member # 12428) on :
 
AHLY-
I know that no body is 100 percent good .Every1 makes mistakes .but there big mistakes and small ones .To hurt a girl and take from here money and use her body and then dump her,This is awful .
I am really sad that some egyptian men do this and by these people ,foerigners will hate coming back or deal with egyptians.I am egyptian 2 and i love egypt soooooooooo much ,however when i hear these stories i get mad and ask my self why?these poeple are doing this.
Again thx man for your message ,and wish you the best .take care brother
 

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Posted by His Angel (Member # 10971) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ?????:
Yes, but as long as you`re a good apple, you don`t have to care. Think that everybody knows about good and bad...

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He cares because he's my bf and I've talked to him about what I've read on this board. Listening to all of the negativity here made me question things and thank God he is patient & understanding when I have questions. I told him about Lombardo and how I enjoyed reading his posts because he appeared to be a good young man with his act together.

As Ahly said, there are good men and bad men in every single country, race, culture, you name it. There are many men who will say or do anything just to get what they want from you.
It's up to you to find that diamond just like it's up to them to find a diamond among us. I can tell you there are just as many women out there that use the heck out of men and throw them away like yesterday's trash so why don't we quit the "Egyptian" men bashing altogether? If you go to the resort areas, what do you expect to find? People go there to party and have a good time (hello????).

I had to agree with Lombardo on what he said when someone started questioning why he wanted to go out with European women (was it for a passport, money). We all have our preferences in who we go out with. Some like their men tall, short, skinny, dark, light, blonde. . .the list goes on. I know way too many American white females that prefer to date only black men but no one finds that odd. Go on any military base and see how many black men are married to white females (whether they be German, British, US, whatever). It has to do with personal choice and Lombardo has a preference for European women. . .so what? I wish I had a daughter because I'd set you up with her, Lombardo. :-)

I got lucky and found a good man. . .and guess what? He just happens to be Egyptian, too!
 

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Posted by lombardo47 (Member # 12428) on :
 
His Angel ,
Thx for your nice words about me ,i would be the happeist man in the world if i marry your daughter ,you know why ,bec you am sure she will be good like her mother .
Wish you the best with your husband and take care of each other
 

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Posted by His Angel (Member # 10971) on :
 
That's so nice of you to say. . .thanks. :-)

We're not married (yet). ;-) He still has plenty of time to run if he wants!
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
The good are dupated by the behaviour of the bad, as always. You seemed to have found a good one, thank God for him.
Wish you all the luck in the world.
BTW, I`m not a white female American woman.I thought my English was bad enough to show this!!!
 

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Posted by Bubblesperson (Member # 12454) on :
 
Dear ???? and dear Ms Sharm!!!

Sorry if I made things more confusing - I really just meant the same thing you did, the important thing is to get to know the other person as best one can, then inform onself about cultural and religious norms, expectations, the way of life, and then take it from there.

I mentioned the history behind the black lists cause you did, and because I really feel these are NOT fair - nor are they always right... And I have seen one girl on a board saying stuff like 'Oh, my guy is not on any list, so he is okay' - what carp, as if one could believe these sites.. Not everyone on them is bad, and not everyone bad is on them, simple as that!!!

But, you see - for you nice Egyptian men who wonder how this happens - it's real easy to fall in love sooo quick while on holiday... As you yourselves will know, Egyptians just ARE the most romantic people in the world (genuinely). Arabs also are 'people of the word', look at the wonderful poetry or some of the old love songs - you melt away at the language and grown women disolve in tears, right??? Plus the highly idealistic, sometimes even overdrawn image of 'true love' that every Egyptian, male or female, harbours in his heart - that's what he wants.... (Even if it means closing one's eyes a little to reality, there is always hope it will become like that later...).

Now for him it may be difficult to attain that goal, if nothing else he will need to work for many years yet to be able to afford a wife - plus he might not be too keen on the ones his family brings to choose from. So then he comes from the country to work, as innoccent - and usually still God-fearing and well behaved - as a newborn, and he now is faced with all these topless, chatting, laughing, smiling women who easily talk with him or even go for a drink, but in any case, THEY may start the conversation, they look full in his face and treat him 'normal' and fully grown...

In his job he also shares his room with at least 3 or 4 other young guys, one of whom may have a Western girlfriend or wife - and he hears of more for whom this works, plus sees many such couples around. (And he will see a couple of guys who did REAL WELL out of such a relationship, they have great clothes, the newest mobile, and even their own business suddenly... If he is weak of character, and forgets all that he learned at home, he WILL now start to want that, too, is it a wonder???).

(Personal note: I saw many of these young men, how they are nice, decent and honest when they arrive, and how they may be - the weak ones - after a couple of years. It's not bad intentions, it's bad examples, a whole lot of them, all that drinking, sex, el hashish, you know what goes on there...).

Now for the women... Ladies from the West are simply NOT used to Arabic poetry, to all the flowery, flattering compliments, to the endearing language - plus you guys are generally speaking good-looking, yes - so they are bowled over in no time at all. No fat surprise, Western men are just very different in behaviour and faaar more sparing with their compliments, less ardent and on the whole less passionate..

Next, Egy guys will propose serious business real fast - but this is the first sad misunderstanding. Because in the West men often take YEARS to 'commit' to a woman, one has to drag them screaming to get married , near enough - Egyptians work the opposite there, they talk of marriage after 3 days - BUT, only because in your culture there is no 'living together' or even (open) sex before marriage, marrage is the honourable thing... Plus one DOES get engaged before being allowed to even date a girl, so it has a different meaning as in the West. And really, when wanting to be with someone for a holiday or so, marriage is really the ONLY way.

So they propose, cause that is how it is done and now one can see each other and stay together - and they have not yet thought for one second that the lady may not like living an Egyptian country life, in the house, not talking to men, no discos, no bikinis, with the family, sitting with the women while he is out etc etc. (So they may still be quite serious).

And the lady here thinks, wow, he is really, really sooooo in love, he wants me forever - and our time together is short, soon I am going home, huuh, huuuuh, let's get on with it while we can - and so they do, she goes home and dreams of balmy starry nights, palm trees and romantic words he said...

That's the beginning of such a thing, and it most often is still honest on both sides...
 

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Posted by Bubblesperson (Member # 12454) on :
 
Part 2

They live one here, one there, talk, sms, chat, and she comes again and again.. They got to know each other better, and this is where difficulties may appear - they find out they do not agree on fundamental points for later life together, there are major differences..

(So he may get cold feet now, but the lady is hanging in there, because that's what we DO, when we love, we looooove, right???).

Such as, the family may be up in arms at the thought of a European wife, especially non-Muslim, especially older, especially divorced - and while it is easy for him to say (and mean it) he will get them round, and he can handle that, the reality - which he does not want to see - is totally different...

The family may just not, not ever, not in a life time, agree (depends on how traditional they are, and how seriously they have already negotiated for a wife for him, with or without his knowledge) - in which case, there is NOTHING, nothing, nothing the poor guy can do. Never ever underestimate the absolute power of the Egyptian family, because it is just that - absolute, total, and the family verdict has to be followed EVEN by all grown men. The end.

It may well be, dear Ms Sharm, that this is what happened in your case - your guy may well have loved you and not taken advantage of you, he may have sincerely hoped that one day this will work - but either way, this does not help you none, because if this is the family's decree, no European (divorcee) as a wife, then that's that.

You might as well ask him to cut off both his legs and arms, too, than to go against the family - IMPOOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!! And even if he DID, you would never be happy - sooner or later he would hate you for it, make your lives miserable, and then return home to repent and make it up..

I am very glad for you that you seem to be feeling somewhat better already, or at least are fully resolved now to let it go. It will still hurt for a long while, and I am very sorry for that - in particular if you ask yourself why, why, why - well, tell you what, living in Egypt I have learned very well that there are a number of things which I cannot follow or will never understand - but that doesn't matter, what matters is THEY JUST ARE.

Nothing to be done other than accepting it, sad as it is. Really, that is the way it is - no way can he go against the family, no way will you be able to really truly understand that fully (don't say 'They haven't met me', I know, but irrelevant under the circumstances), you just have to take it for what it is, an imposible hurdle sadly meaning the end...

Sometimes in life love isn't enough, like when dealing with such totally different attitudes and cultures - there are points where these won't ever meet, whether this is regrettable or not. Again, I am very sorry for your situation - but trust me, you are much better off not pondering why's or could have been's, just hang on to the happy memories and let it go... You WILL feel better, and at peace, Insha'Allah, very soon!!!!

My bestest wishes to you, love, Bubble
 

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Posted by Bubblesperson (Member # 12454) on :
 
PS. Yes, there are SOME guys who are really into it for the money (and sex). Passports not so often, Egyptians love their country way too much, like you gentlemen - but money, that is great, of course. I shall write on these hunter-types later, now I am all typed out...
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
Thanks My angle and you are 100% right and yes you are angle

Lamb 47 my brother you are great keep up and keep going so we can always keep the good picture and realty of us as egyptian

Bubble
thank you, thank you i think the best that comeout of that topic is the thoughts and description of the real egyptian culture but with europen eyes and that much better than any one of us in egypt can descripe..
yes it happen and will happen always a bad stories and also broken hurts, but what you start her can open people eyes so n more broken hearts/ thanks and i almost agree 97 % with all what you said? my deep respect.
 

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Posted by Bubblesperson (Member # 12454) on :
 
Why, my dear Ahly!!!

WOW, almost a whole 97% - and 'deep respect'?!?!? I am deeply honoured, thank you most kindly for that HUGE compliment!!! Now let me try to carry my much swollen head off to bed, if it's not got too heavy, hahaha....

And you see my reaction?!?!?! Look at your lovely message again, to all three ladies - the HEARTWARMING laanguage you use.... Aaaah, only an Egyptian, only an Egyptian... (Right, - many - dear ladies???)
Thank you again, take care of you, Bubble
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
His angel
no way i go any where? you have me for sure :

Bubble

thank you a lots and i can see you are familar with egyptian culture and i am intersting to read your openion about all specail the bad guys.

thank you and take care of your self
 

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Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
 
Wow, you know, Bubbles seem to be empty spaces, filled with air. You`ve chosen the wrong name. Compliments!
 

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Posted by ahly (Member # 12512) on :
 
No bubble full with knowldage and respect to her self and others, Bubble i am really intersting in all what you say beacuse it is correct and so close to the facts.
Keep going and i will keep reading your thoughts
Deep Respect
 

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Posted by xxbigkisses (Member # 11020) on :
 
it has been my experience as raising 6 children and american and then being involved in egypt in relationships and also marriage that the older egyptian families fear the things(or people) that they really dont understand.
also these egyptian mothers pressure their sons very much and not only they r forced into responsibilties towards the whole family but also is made to feel ashamed and feel guilty, if they dont "do the right thing" or what "mother wants them to do". but it is the man who is matured and has left his mommy that is grown mentally after time. though he loves his family and feels somewhat responsible for them, they also realize that they themselves need their own life and love, with or without children of their own.
it is the mature man that can stand up to his family, against their demands. with the exception of the parents being in such an elderly state and in need of money for nursing care.
this man who has found love away from his family will stay with the one he loves.... unless he doesnt love u and then his affections will revert back to his family. just like any human being does when their personal relationship is failing or failed.
the younger this man is the harder for him to leave his family. most time the older man needs love of a good woman badly and choose foreigners because they all tell me that they prefer them because they have the real love, whereas the egyptian women marry for title, status, money, possessions, etc.. with love being last on their list. i have heard so many complaints about this.
in the end, there is nothing u will be able to do or say because any man is going to decide on his own what to do about any subject. all u can do is offer your unconditional love and give him your emotional support. nothing u can say can change his mind. believe me. ive had first hand experiences. if u belittle his thoughts on his culture or family issues, it will only push him harder away from u. deal with the loss the best way u know how. good luck..and move on with it, dont lag behind in life or u will feel left out.
 

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Posted by Samarra_Anissa (Member # 12077) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xxbigkisses:
it has been my experience as raising 6 children and american and then being involved in egypt in relationships and also marriage that the older egyptian families fear the things(or people) that they really dont understand.
also these egyptian mothers pressure their sons very much and not only they r forced into responsibilties towards the whole family but also is made to feel ashamed and feel guilty, if they dont "do the right thing" or what "mother wants them to do". but it is the man who is matured and has left his mommy that is grown mentally after time. though he loves his family and feels somewhat responsible for them, they also realize that they themselves need their own life and love, with or without children of their own.
it is the mature man that can stand up to his family, against their demands. with the exception of the parents being in such an elderly state and in need of money for nursing care.
this man who has found love away from his family will stay with the one he loves.... unless he doesnt love u and then his affections will revert back to his family. just like any human being does when their personal relationship is failing or failed.
the younger this man is the harder for him to leave his family. most time the older man needs love of a good woman badly and choose foreigners because they all tell me that they prefer them because they have the real love, whereas the egyptian women marry for title, status, money, possessions, etc.. with love being last on their list. i have heard so many complaints about this.
in the end, there is nothing u will be able to do or say because any man is going to decide on his own what to do about any subject. all u can do is offer your unconditional love and give him your emotional support. nothing u can say can change his mind. believe me. ive had first hand experiences. if u belittle his thoughts on his culture or family issues, it will only push him harder away from u. deal with the loss the best way u know how. good luck..and move on with it, dont lag behind in life or u will feel left out.

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Saved for prosperity.

It really is a precious gem.
 

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Posted by Miss Sharm (Member # 12405) on :
 
xxbigkisses - Thank you for your posting. It was very difficult for me at 1st to come to terms with what this guy had done to me, how he had lied and used me. However, with the support of some fantastic friends I have realised that i deserved better and had to let this guy go as I would continue to get hurt. I have put it down to another bad experience in my life, these things are certainly sent to try us! I believe in myself and I am loooking forward to what promises to be a very good year for 2007

Take care

Amanda x x
 

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