Last day, a European girl came to the company I work to have a job interview with my manager. I could listen at what she was saying as the interview was conducted just behind me. The girl presented herself in the very professional way and gave the impression to be a very nice and cheerful person. The interview went very well however they did not select her regardless her excellent work experience and her education. During the interview my manger has asked her why she decided to come to Egypt. She replied that she was not like other Europeans women who came to Egypt with the only idea of being with their Egyptian boy friend or husband, but that she wanted to learn more about the Egyptian culture in general. I do not know why but I did not believe her story. I contacted her as before leaving she kindly gave me her contact number, and discovered that in fact she met up with an Egyptian a couple of years ago but unfortunately the relation has to ended due to the age difference (she is 15 years older than her boy friend) and the difference of culture which they both could not handle. Despite all of these issues she still came to Cairo in the hope to find a job and settle down but has so far encountered many difficulties that she was not prepare to handle. Like the fact that her ex boy friend do not want to walk with her in the street because he is ashamed of what people may think, that really seems to have heard her a lot, and that her ex is now married to an other girl who is like he wanted: a veil and young Egyptian. What really surprised me is that dispide the fact that she cannot find any job, has not many fiends here, constantly complain that there are no any single advantage for a European to live in Egypt and will soon run out of money, she find the strength and the motivation to stay here, in the hope to find a suitable job, which will allow her to live for a while in Egypt. But what push all those women to leave everything behind them and come to a very different country into a very different culture? This question has been raised many time here but I would have never imagined how sad and desperate those woman are until I met her.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Perhaps she is ashamed to go home as a failure? I know when I came to Egypt there was that little voice in the back of my mind that things wouldn't work exactly how I wanted and I would look so stupid if I went home. Of course my situation is nothing like hers, but moving to a differnet culture entirely has its risks. I would imagine she is more afraid of going home than toughing it out here. Just a guess.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
I am wondering if she's having an excellent work resume why can't she find employment?
Please if you contact her again tell her to look for work in child care/schooling, she can work also and make extra money with giving private lessons until a better paying employment becomes available. What's her nationality btw?
And please tell her she needs to get over her too young ex; he's a married man and didn't accept the way she was. But there are plenty more older fish out in the sea!
Is she thinking about or did she already convert to Islam?
She needs to have a plan. At least when she will really run out of money she has to give up her dream of living in Egypt. Two thumbs up for her braveness of moving there all by herself.
My best regards to her. I hope things get better for her.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Ok, this is what I just cannot understand...the mom aged women and the son aged men. I met a woman in Egypt (late 30's) who met her husband online (believe it or not) and he is late 40's. They liked each other, met and married. They now live a very happy life in America and are doing well.
Question: do the older women not think there are older Egyptian men available and just the ones young enough to be their children?
I know at least this man in particular was married before and divorced, has grown children and was happy to marry a convert western woman and live the last part of his life in the states with her. They are in Egypt every year for at least 2-4 months at a time and it doesn't seem to bring the problems with it that a May-December romance would bring. He is not very well off financially but not desperate for cash and doesn't use her at all or feel the need to send money home.
So the age issue must be especially intriguing to the women who make these matches, right? Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Did she make a sad and desperate impression to you? That possibly could be a reason why she couldn`t get a job. Maybe she has a goal in mind, and enough perseverance to do all what`s possible to reach that goal. We don`t know. If you want to know, why not just ask her?
Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
I asked my manager why she did not get the job and the answer was due to her age. She is in her early 40 and is overqualified for the position she applied.
she gave the impression to be a very happy person until she answered to the question why did you come to Egyp? sorry but it was obvious that she was not telling the thruth because I like Egyptian culture? humm can you be more specified what do you like about the culture?
Tigerlily I think is an execllent idea to advise her to find a job in child care/schooling, she may have a better chance and from what it says in her resume she already has been a teacher before
Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
I met a woman in Egypt (late 30's) who met her husband online (believe it or not) and he is late 40's. They liked each other, met and married. They now live a very happy life in America and are doing well.
I have recently met a couple with exactly the same age difference as the one you know. The woman is late 30 and the man is late 40 and they have been happily married for 5 years now and live in Egypt. I have noticed that mixed couple work better when the tow of them are already divorce, is much more easy for them to accept their differences. But when is their first engagement is always much harder to take the right decision I guess they must get a lot of pressure to married the perfect woman who would pleased the all family.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: I asked my manager why she did not get the job and the answer was due to her age. She is in her early 40 and is overqualified for the position she applied.
she gave the impression to be a very happy person until she answered to the question why did you come to Egyp? sorry but it was obvious that she was not telling the thruth because I like Egyptian culture? humm can you be more specified what do you like about the culture?
Actually, it's none of the employer's business why someone decides to move to the country, other than the obvious reason - if we invest time in you, will you leave the country (and us) in a year or two? (in most jobs, it takes anywhere btw 4-9 months to really settle into it.) In other words, if you say you're in Egypt because of a relationship, that typically means you're putting roots down and there's a good chance you're staying long-term. If you are coming to experience the culture, then the employer thinks...well, she won't stay long, I'd rather find someone with less skill that I can train and who will stay long-term.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
You know, Souri, I was in exactly the same situation like her.
Well at first I just came to work as a nanny and experience another culture (no male involved). The second time I made it to Egypt I was in a very shaky relationship to an Egyptian man (which we both didn't want to admit and held on much longer than we should have). Anyway, at one point I was on my own as he left Egypt and returned back to the UK.
I was by myself again and thought: well that's it, I probably go home now, I was an emotional wreck for some time (I thought about going to Paris for a year). But I stayed because I really wanted to live longer in Egypt. For around six months I had three jobs (German teacher in a KG until noon, nanny to a German family until the evening and I gave extra lessons afterwards). It was kinda exhausting but it worked out that way until I found a great local job in an office (because I actually was a secretary).
So the woman you are talking about needs to keep her hopes up, try to manage things, eventually something good will come out of it..... and she really needs to make friends. They are SO IMPORTANT to survive overseas by yourself. I wouldn't have stayed that long in Egypt if it wasn't for some people who really supported me -especially in bad times.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: But what push all those women to leave everything behind them and come to a very different country into a very different culture? This question has been raised many time here but I would have never imagined how sad and desperate those woman are until I met her.
I'm a little puzzled by this question from you Souri, a woman who has left her own country, twice, and is now living in a a very different country and a very different culture from her own. I understand that you got a job before you came, and in that you were fortunate, and that this woman is still looking for a job - perhaps she doesn't actually want to/feel it is her vocation to work with kids or teach, not everyone does - but I'm not sure why that makes her "sad and desperate" any more than you were when you were spending all that time looking for a suitable job so you could come to Egypt?
Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
Salam alikoum Newcomer
First when I left my country was not by choice but more by necessity and did not arrived in UK with nothing (job and somewhere to stay) I did not have any job either when I arrived to Cairo and had to go through many interview before getting something but never been desperate no as I had a raison to come in Egypt, and for your own information I do not live in Egypt in this different culture by my own at all which makes a big diffrence ( but that my business) and if I had too, with no job and no money and keep thinking about the man I love being married to an other one I would certainly not stay but this is me everybody is different.And if I mentioned the fact that she could maybe find a job as a teatcher is because she already done that before and is also qualified for it. And what made me feel that she was desperate is not the fact that she is looking for a job, but mainly the way she explained to me how sad she was to see the man she loves getting married with an other woman ( and she knew that was going to happen before coming to Egypt), and the whole story about her love story. In addition to that, her frustration about Egypt and the way she described the Egyptians her view about the Egyptian society in general was very negative and that what made me wonder why she still wish to stay here that it
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
well, since you seemed friendly and approached her, she probably thought she was getting a sympathetic ear and was just venting her frustrations to another expat (who she thought would understand those particular frustrations instead of judging her sad and desperate.)
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: Salam alikoum Newcomer
First when I left my country was not by choice but more by necessity and did not arrived in UK with nothing (job and somewhere to stay) I did not have any job either when I arrived to Cairo and had to go through many interview before getting something but never been desperate no, and for your own information I do not live in Egypt in this different culture by my own at all which makes a big diffrence ( but that my business) and if I had too, with no job and no money and keep thinking about the man I love being married to an other one I would certainly not stay but this is me everybody is different.And if I mentioned the fact that she could maybe find a job as a teatcher is because she already done that before and is also qualified for it. And what made me feel that she was desperate is not the fact that she is looking for a job, but mainly the way she explained to me how sad she was to see the man she loves getting married with an other woman ( and she knew that was going to happen before coming to Egypt), and the whole story about her love story. In addition to that, her frustration about Egypt and the way she described the Egyptians her view about the Egyptian society in general was very negative and that what made me wonder why she still wish to stay here that it
When she can think, she will know that a whole country can`t be as negative as her expierences have been. So it should be very well possible that she wanted to understand what has happened to her, the reason why, and wanted to know the other side of the country. But you only can ask her to know what is the reason behind...
Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
I do not and did not juge her at all but once again as I said I was wondering what keep her so motivate to stay here that it. And i could understand her frustration if I knew the raison that motivate her to stay here. She also said that some of her freinds from her origianlly country have advised her to come back if the situation was not getting better as they do not also understand her
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
When she can think, she will know that a whole country can`t be as negative as her expierences have been. So it should be very well possible that she wanted to understand what has happened to her, the reason why, and wanted to know the other side of the country.
yes maybe you are right, I did not dare to ask her the real raison why but will next time I will meet her. The only thing i do not hope is that she left everything behind her in the hope to win the heart of her ex Egyptian boy freind Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
That is unless you are the second wife. I'm sorry but I personally don't like to share. Too many men in this world to have to share one.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
Should you like to be a second man, Batman? Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: Salam alikoum Newcomer
First when I left my country was not by choice but more by necessity and did not arrived in UK with nothing (job and somewhere to stay) I did not have any job either when I arrived to Cairo and had to go through many interview before getting something but never been desperate no as I had a raison to come in Egypt, and for your own information I do not live in Egypt in this different culture by my own at all which makes a big diffrence ( but that my business) and if I had too, with no job and no money and keep thinking about the man I love being married to an other one I would certainly not stay but this is me everybody is different.And if I mentioned the fact that she could maybe find a job as a teatcher is because she already done that before and is also qualified for it. And what made me feel that she was desperate is not the fact that she is looking for a job, but mainly the way she explained to me how sad she was to see the man she loves getting married with an other woman ( and she knew that was going to happen before coming to Egypt), and the whole story about her love story. In addition to that, her frustration about Egypt and the way she described the Egyptians her view about the Egyptian society in general was very negative and that what made me wonder why she still wish to stay here that it
Wa alaykum salaam Souri, The way your first message came over it was as if you were talking about women in general who come on their own to settle in a new culture and have difficulty adjusting, as you kept on referring to “those women”, but now it seems as if it was more about that specific one, as I would imagine that there are very few women who move to Egypt to be close to an ex who has married someone else. What her motivation for staying is, I guess she is the only one who knows that.
And as to why other women stay, who find it difficult to adjust to living here and who find many things about Egypt difficult to cope with, I would guess that maybe 90% of those who move here, especially those from different/western cultures, if not more, have challenges to some degree or other in adjusting to life here, especially in the first couple of years and depending on their personal/financial situation. It’s called culture shock. Some people get over it and adjust to life here, even though they may still have moments of desperation, others don’t and end up going back home at some point.
I really don’t think that you can generalize why people put themselves through culture shock and don’t run home immediately, some may be hoping that things will eventually improve, others that they have made a personal commitment or a commitment to someone else, others that maybe they are hoping that things here will be better than what they left behind, others that they are looking for a longer term benefit…I’m sure that there may be more reasons than this and that the specifics will vary so much from person to person.
Glad to hear that things have worked out for you and that you not only have a job that you seem to like, but that you also have company here and are not apparently having too much culture shock. Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: That is unless you are the second wife. I'm sorry but I personally don't like to share. Too many men in this world to have to share one.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
..
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
Should you like to be a second man, Batman?
quote: Polygamy is an empowering lifestyle for women. It provides me the environment and opportunity to maximize my female potential without all the tradeoffs and compromises that attend monogamy. The women in my family are friends. You don't share two decades of experience, and a man, without those friendships becoming very special.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
Have you been one,Batty? Posted by Mother War (Member # 8386) on :
Nope, still not convinced. I'm far too jealous to share my husband with another woman.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: That is unless you are the second wife. I'm sorry but I personally don't like to share. Too many men in this world to have to share one.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
..
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
Should you like to be a second man, Batman?
quote: Polygamy is an empowering lifestyle for women. It provides me the environment and opportunity to maximize my female potential without all the tradeoffs and compromises that attend monogamy. The women in my family are friends. You don't share two decades of experience, and a man, without those friendships becoming very special.
Instead of rationalizing more then one wife, whip the bastard to shape with kindness. Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
quote: Nope, still not convinced. I'm far too jealous to share my husband with another woman.
well, a faithful wife should keep a low profile for her jealousy and be helpful 2 other desperate women.
Imagine u had a friend of yours and u know her and she is desperate with no family n no life. Y dont u offer ur hubby 2 marry her. This is ultimately humane thing. a friend indeed is a friend in need. Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
That`s not an answer to my question, Batman. You`re placing a unrealistic fantasy of a woman, and I don`t take it seriously. Because I think that NO man with a little bit of selfrespect would share his wife with others, as also women will lose their selfrespect if they share their husbands with another. It happens, but it is always in moments/periods of carelessness, despare, search for what`s missing, or....selfishness. Because no couple who love and respect theirselves and each other would agree with a number three, four, five etc... So, please tell me your answer, and not a part of an atricle written by somebody else...
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by Mother War: That is unless you are the second wife. I'm sorry but I personally don't like to share. Too many men in this world to have to share one.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
..
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: being a second wife is greatest thing in Life! You will never be desperate
Should you like to be a second man, Batman?
quote: Polygamy is an empowering lifestyle for women. It provides me the environment and opportunity to maximize my female potential without all the tradeoffs and compromises that attend monogamy. The women in my family are friends. You don't share two decades of experience, and a man, without those friendships becoming very special.
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote: Nope, still not convinced. I'm far too jealous to share my husband with another woman.
well, a faithful wife should keep a low profile for her jealousy and be helpful 2 other desperate women.
Imagine u had a friend of yours and u know her and she is desperate with no family n no life. Y dont u offer ur hubby 2 marry her. This is ultimately humane thing. a friend indeed is a friend in need.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Hijacked thread. Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by newcomer:
The way your first message came over it was as if you were talking about women in general who come on their own to settle in a new culture and have difficulty adjusting, as you kept on referring to “those women” , but now it seems as if it was more about that specific one, as I would imagine that there are very few women who move to Egypt to be close to an ex who has married someone else. What her motivation for staying is, I guess she is the only one who knows that.
And as to why other women stay, who find it difficult to adjust to living here and who find many things about Egypt difficult to cope with, I would guess that maybe 90% of those who move here, especially those from different/western cultures, if not more, have challenges to some degree or other in adjusting to life here, especially in the first couple of years and depending on their personal/financial situation. It’s called culture shock. Some people get over it and adjust to life here, even though they may still have moments of desperation, others don’t and end up going back home at some point.
I really don’t think that you can generalize why people put themselves through culture shock and don’t run home immediately , some may be hoping that things will eventually improve, others that they have made a personal commitment or a commitment to someone else, others that maybe they are hoping that things here will be better than what they left behind, others that they are looking for a longer term benefit…I’m sure that there may be more reasons than this and that the specifics will vary so much from person to person.
I totally agree, and I also found the first post strangely generalizing and a bit offensive.
Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
But what push all those women to leave everything behind them and come to a very different country into a very different culture? This question has been raised many time here but I would have never imagined how sad and desperate those woman are until I met her.
I was mainly referring to this particular woman no all women in general of course, but I also said " those women" as I believe many others ones have been in similar situation as the one I talked about. I remember having red one day a similar story about a mother of 2 children who has decided to leave everything in her country in the hope to live her love story with her younger boy friend in Sharm and this story was posted by one of her child who was worried about the consequences this relation could have.
I do not think that there are many women who leave everything in the hope to win the heard of their ex, but I am quit pretty sure that many of them have left a lot behind them and got very disappointed by the way their love story ended and is about those women this paragraph was referring to.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
I personally was aquainted to a young English girl back in '97 which was married to an Egyptian guy (they met in Sharm while she was on vacation), both of them worked (he was a pool guard and she worked as a English teacher an a KG) and had a little 1-year-old boy. They never seemed to have enough money, they even 'borrowed' eggs and other stuff from us, it was pretty bad. When they did fight it was mostly because of finances and at one point she was seriously considering of leaving him as she just couldn't take it anymore. He treated her well, he wasn't the typical Muslim guy, gave her lots of freedom, let her go out by herself and speak her mind. But one thing what he really didn't wanna do was to move to the UK which she tried to pursue him.
It surprises me how sometimes women give up everything back home incl. social benefits just to live right above the poverty line in a third world country.
You know at one point you have to draw the line. You have to make a decision. Suffering alone is bad but not being able to properly take care of your offspring is another story.
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
Western women in a third world country are anything but desperate and I am generalizing here. It is actually power and they are using it whether it is for a simple vacation, seeking some fun in the sun, backpacking, studying, relationship related, working or just bumming around.
Some are after their dreams but they are definitely not desperate and many times they know exactly what they are doing. Desperate is when you don’t have options and western women have plenty of options, including the one depicted by the OP.
This is the absolute truth because they in fact have power. An Egyptian maid might be desperate an Ethiopian female farmer might be desperate but in general, Western women in third world countries are rarely desperate.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Of course if you compare them with many locals Western women have options and more opportunities but it still doesn't mean that living in a third world country is easy and without problems for a them especially when being married to a local and have his child.
But then you always can blame them that it was their choice, right?
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Of course if you compare them with many locals Western women have options and more opportunities but it still doesn't mean that living in a third world country is easy and without problems for a them especially when being married to a local and have his child.
But then you always can blame them that it was their choice, right?
There is no one to blame and put it this way what are the odds that a western woman would bottom out in a third world country? I mean like totally rock bottom, like living like a bum on Azhar street in Islamic Cairo?
When push comes to shove such a woman will take her pathetic little(or big for that matter) ass back home and regroup Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Well well Sobriquet can't you stay respectful throughout this topic? And don't even get me started about Egyptian women' butts.... (I am just getting on your level now you know).
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Well well Sobriquet can't you stay respectful throughout this topic? And don't even get me started about Egyptian women' butts.... (I am just getting on your level now you know).
There isn't anything that i wrote that is actually 'disrespectful'!
Lets see who is really desperate
A.) Western woman who travels to Egypt to live with her Egyptian beau, a man who is 20 years younger than she is. The relationship fails and she loses a lot of money because of many reasons.
Or
B.) Egyptian woman who marries a man 20 years older than her because of her predicament whatever it may be, usually financial.
Who is desperate?
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
When push comes to shove such a woman will take her pathetic little(or big for that matter) ass back home and regroup
Simply your foreign woman 'ass' comment didn't sit well with me - that's all. Over and out.
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: When push comes to shove such a woman will take her pathetic little(or big for that matter) ass back home and regroup
Simply your foreign woman 'ass' comment didn't sit well with me - that's all. Over and out.
It would help if you actually focused on the context of the sentence. Focusing on a single word is nitpicking or perhaps an inclination to have another go at me. I thought we were past that
Anyway though chill out. Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Hello there!
Believe or not, but I'm the sad and desperate woman our dearest Souri was talking about. ES is THE meeting place for sad and desperate women, my dearest Souri, if you were smart, you would have thought about the possibility of me reading you message... But then I guess you're not.
My mouth dropped open while reading the post and I still have problems closing it again, to be honest. Wow, woman, what an imagination!
Well, guys, for starter's, Agnes (the lovely woman's real name) and me chatted for exactly ten minutes in the office and we talked maybe for half an hour on the phone. She obviously thinks that this is time enough to fully analyse and judge a person.
It totally beats me why somebody would want to put my story on an internetforum (I know she doesn't have enough work in the office, but next time you're bored, dear, please play a computer game, ok?), but if you do so, it would be nice if you could get the story right at least.
For those who are not asleep by now (let's face it, my life story is not exactly as interesting as Lady Diana's), let's get some facts lined up:
1) WHY DID I LEAVE MY COUNTRY?:
As amazing as it may sound to people like our lovely Agnes, I really came to Egypt because I was interested in getting to know a different culture. I have lived in Belgium, Germany, Mexico and Brazil before, and after having spent the last five years in Paris I was in for a new challenge. During my holidays, I travelled the world (Europe, the Americas, Asia and Africa) and I totally enjoy visiting new places, tasting new dishes, learning about new religions, discovering a different kind of literature and music, meeting new people etc.
I did not flee from family problems, lonelyness, a horrible husband nor jail
Why exactly is that so hard to believe? And why do you think that my life style is sad and desperate? I'm sure I had more fun in my life than 99,9% of the world population
2) WHY EGYPT?:
I agree Egypt is not exactly a heavenly destination, but to my defense I have to say that I picked it by chance: while living in Paris, I had worked closely with my company's department in Cairo and had made some friends. I visited them a couple of times last year, we had a lot of fun, so I decided to move down here for a while. Nope, sorry to disappoint you all, no juicy love story, didn't move to Egypt to reconquer the heart of some man or because I fell madly in love with a bedouin tourist guide. Damn, guess I just lost the chance to sell my biography rights to Hollywood .
3) THE JOB and MONEY PROBLEM:
I came to Cairo in January, found myself a job at a big American IT company within three weeks, but the job was so boring that about a month ago, I decided to quit. So indeed I'm out of a job now, but is that a reason to run straight back home?
If anybody knows about an open position, please feel free to PM me, but indeed, no teaching for me anymore, I worked for 7 years in university language centres, I've had my share
And thank you for being concerned about my financial situation, but since I worked the last 8 years as a well paid consultant, I can survive in Egypt for the next ten years without even having to work. I'm sorry I didn't disclose this information to you within the first ten minutes, it would have saved you obviously a lot of worrying. And by the way, the IT firm paid me three times your actual salary, eat your heart out, honey Mmmm... guess my situation is not so desperate after all
4) THE GUY:
Thanks, Schmuckers, for throwing me into the group of old women desperate for love who go out with young Egyptian guys desperate for a visa. But I'm not one of them.
Two years ago, I became friends with one of my Egyptian colleagues. He was one of the colleagues I went out with when I visited Egypt, he visited me in Europe last summer, we became very close friends, and even fell in love after a year or so, but we never touched each other (he's from a traditional and religious family). Ok, the age difference is ridiculous, I'm indeed 37 (not in the early 40's as Agnes stated) and he's 25, but hey, it was not like I had planned falling in love with somebody. Rather the opposite, I would say.
Although we loved each other dearly, we decided (or better he decided) not to get married. Not because WE could not handle the difference in culture, but because his society could not handle this kind of relationship: his parents would never agree him marrying somebody older or somebody who is not a muslim (I didn't convert), he couldn't stand the stupid comments of people in the street or in the office, etc. You know the stories from ES, no need to explain.
He's engaged now (why did you make up he was married, Agnes? Needed a dramatic element for your story?), will marry in about a year or so and yes, that hurts. He's still my best friend though, even if we don't see each other often.
But since I did not come to Cairo because of him (I knew before coming we could not have a real relationship), so I will not leave because of him either, even if his upcoming marriage makes me very sad. What is so desperate about not leaving? If you're from France, do you leave France if a relationship goes wrong? What has one got to do with the other?
Anyway, I know you're all bored to death by now, but I really needed to get things straight. You can not just make stuff up and put it on the net, that is not fair.
One thing was true though: I indeed complained about Egypt, but you should have known that a German who doesn't complain is a dead German, complaining is a national hobby of ours
PS: Thanks Tigerlilly and ExptinCAI and some others for defending me without knowing me, merci.
PS2: And since we're obviously putting each other's life stories on the web: during our phone conversation, it was actually Agnes who told me that she did not cope well here in Egypt and that she has problems with the new attitude of her fiancé (who seemed to be a different man in Europe), she told me that she already applied for a job in France and is thinking of going back. Since I'm not only 'sad and desperate', but also 'stupid and nice', I even proposed her to meet up with some of my French friends who have been living here for a while, to encourage her and to give her advise... Maybe she made up that story too? Some people are really naive,and believe in the good nature of others and I m obviously one of them Posted by Dalia* (Member # 10593) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: you should have known that a German who doesn't complain is a dead German, complaining is a national hobby of ours
Didn't find your post boring at all, btw. Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
They say it's a small world, looks like the internet is even smaller Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Oh and by the way, I didn't 'give up my whole life for a 20 year old beau and lost all my money':
1) he was 25 and not even 'beau' ) 2) he never asked for money nor did he want a visa, he is an engineer with a well paid job, he's happy here. 3) I gave up absolutely nothing at home, I never do, not even when I move abroad for a couple of years: my consultant contract was finished (so I didn t give up my job), I still own a small place to live in Paris, still have a car in Europe, still pay for my health and other insurances, so if I'm fed up I just take a plane and go back to friends and family.
Not all people who live here are crazy backpackers who fell in love with their tourist guide, leave their home country without thinking and are in deep sh... if the relationship doesn't work out. Some people do know what they are doing...
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
All the best to you Loira
Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Although my family and friends do not think I'm one of them Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Thanks, Young at heart, very sweet !
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
You are obviously someone with lots of life experiences behind you. Just you make the most of it. Wish I had that. We're only here once.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Oh, wow, that backfired! You know, Loira, Souri is a good gal. Not to take sides here but she might have misunderstood some things or mixed you up with another woman.
Anyway, we got now two views to one story.
Make up, girls! And meet up for a good cup of coffee, will ya? Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
Je te souhaite une bonne chance Loira Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
I know she's a good girl, she was the person who sent my CV to her manager although she didn't know me
By the way, thanks a million for all those articles you always post on ES, Tigerlilly, I love reading them..
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Oh ja, danke. Hoffentlich schaffe ich es auch noch mal in meinem Leben nach Kairo. Stell' Dir vor, wieviel Gossip wuerde es von mir auf diesem Forum geben?! Alles Gute an Dich!!!! Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
Ich denke, daß du wieder nicht im Kairo Tiger, dich erinnerst an dieses dein ganzes Leben lebst Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Batman: did nobody ever tell you that internet translation engines suck? I ve been a foreign language teacher for 7 years and I have no clue what you're trying to say
Tigerlilly: Nicht nachdenken, einfach Sachen packen und kommen. Wenn du anfaengst darueber nach zu denken, machst du es nicht mehr Und das mit dem Gossip, das kriegen wir schon hin...
Posted by hetsho1982 (Member # 12012) on :
there is an old egyption actor called Yossef Wahby..,he used to say words contain that meaning (The life is just a big dramatized theatre)
this thread make me feel the meaning of this words
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: Tigerlilly: Nicht nachdenken, einfach Sachen packen und kommen. Wenn du anfaengst darueber nach zu denken, machst du es nicht mehr
Ya Loira nicht ohne meine vier Kinder, meinen Mann und den Hund! Posted by Gascious_Clay (Member # 13876) on :
How about the desperate men. We only speak of the women. WHY?
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gascious_Clay: How about the desperate men. We only speak of the women. WHY?
cas most of us are women feel fre to tell us about desperate men plz!
Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Vier Kinder, mein Gott, wie findest du die Zeit fuer ES? Kuemmert dein Hubby sich um sie? Oder einfach Valium in die Suppe und dann ab ins Bett ?
Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
^^ LOL!
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: Vier Kinder, mein Gott, wie findest du die Zeit fuer ES? Kuemmert dein Hubby sich um sie? Oder einfach Valium in die Suppe und dann ab ins Bett ?
Alles eine Sache des Managments und der guten deutschen Ordnung! Nr. 5 und 6 sind nicht ausgeschlossen (allerdings keine leiblichen)!
Hast du Kinder?
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
I think the desperate stigma is mistaken for stupidity because that seems to be the case many times according to public info. Someone mentioned ‘desperate men’ I guess you have to find the opposite locale of where desperate western women roam and that would probably be Pattaya, Bangkok, Puket or simply Thailand.
I am not generalizing here but it seems western men are running away from western women and vice versa. Perhaps searching for something more ‘exotic’ but many times they go for theirs and they try to land a partner 20-35 years younger. Such people are not desperate but are rather stupid because simply put a 25 year old woman with a 45 year old man and as much as she admires him knows too well the repercussions of such an age difference and I won’t elaborate here.
I have seen older/old men with absolute bombshells and 100% of the time their young companions seem anomalous. It could be a number of factors and I really don’t care my point is very simple. I will say this much ‘desperate men’ are a lot more ‘desperate’ than ‘desperate women’ and this is evident by their violent and sometimes suicidal and homicidal behavior. It’s actually a scandal out in S.E.A with British (professional) men jumping off of buildings after bottoming out and losing their young hottie.
Posted by waterproof_mascara (Member # 13879) on :
Mid life crisis.
Posted by hetsho1982 (Member # 12012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: ----------------------------------- Although we loved each other dearly, we decided (or better he decided) not to get married. Not because WE could not handle the difference in culture, but because his society could not handle this kind of relationship: his parents would never agree him marrying somebody older or somebody who is not a muslim (I didn't convert), he couldn't stand the stupid comments of people in the street or in the office, etc. You know the stories from ES, no need to explain.
im so sorry Loira..,maybe u will find my question kinda rude..,so if its ok to answer it then do..,if its not ok then dont answer..,i'll understand my dear..,
u said that he couldn't stand the STUPID comments of people in the street or in office..etc..
so my question is did u wish that he could face all and dont care whatever happend???..,and did u feel disappointed coz of his sitiuation about that..???and do u feel that he is weak man coz of that???
sorry coz im asking much.., with my best wishes.., al salam alykom
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I saw western men in they're mid fifties, unfortunately not blessed with looks, but had good jobs with very beautiful and young phillipino girlfriends, in UAE. The girls were with the men for the money they would get and then send it back to they're families and the guys saw them as trophies to be paraded around and probably thought they had become sex gods Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Hi Hetsho,
It s not a rude question. Part of me (the European part) indeed blames him for being weak. I constantly get stupid comments from my society too (still not married, dear?, why can't you keep a stable job in one country, dear?, what on earth are you going to do in a terrorist country, dear? an Arab man as a boyfriend, where you that desperate, dear?), but I just ignore them and do whatever I want with my life anyway.
But the other part of me knows very well how this society works, how high the pressure from family and friends is. And I risk less than him: I know that, even if my parents and friends maybe don't agree with my lifestyle, they will still love me no matter what and that's a great luxury that Egyptians don't have.
But does it make me sad that he is not strong enough? Yes, it does. He will marry a wife his parents like, he will buy the appartment his parents chose, in the neighbourhood they picked for him and he will sit on furniture they bought. And yes, all that makes me sad, even if I understand it. But I find I can not ask him to break with his family because of me...
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
You know, Loira, when the family has only a bit level, they would have the same in mind as your family has:in spite of their own feelings about it, they would still love him, and allowed him to make his own decision to lead a life that should make him happy. They could be right,they could be wrong, a marraige can grow into many directions, but they should be there for him when needed. And don`t pay any attention to remarks about your life, it is YOURS, and you have the right to lead your life in the way you like. (You should have done the same in this particular event, you don`t ow anybody a exploination about the way you are leading your life, and certainly not to a bunch of strangers behind a nickname)
Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Hi ?????,
Thanks for your kind words. Well, guess in Egypt the happiness of a child comes after 'what would the neighbours think?' and 'what makes us parents happy?'
And I didn't write my answer to defend myself (don't think I'm doing anything wrong actually), more to show people that not everything written here is reality... Guess I was naive to believe it was, maybe you guys all make stuff up ? Maybe Tigerlilly is in reality a Chinese citizen, Schmuckers a German policeman and Sobriquet a shoarmaseller from Alex ? Let me know!
Anyway, I'll be more careful in talking to strangers next time...
PS Tigerlilly: nein, keine Kinder... aber ich kenne den Trick mit dem Valium in der Suppe von meinem kleinen Bruder, der ist erst neun Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: Maybe Tigerlilly is in reality a Chinese citizen
資料來源.... you got me here! Posted by Serene Advocate (Member # 13882) on :
Hi all, I am new to ES and have just been reading all the posts for 'desperate women'. I am really glad to see that for equality of the sexes there has been a mention of desperate men. Desperate men and women are in every country, town, city and village. The question for me is what makes them appear to others to be labelled desperate? What are they running away from - we know what they are running to!!! [perhaps not always fully informed though!!]. One possible answer is love - call me a romantic - but unfortunately love flies out the window if and when money problems walk through the front door.
How many of these relationships would continue if these so called 'desperate' people had their new partners move to their own country e.g. England, USA etc.
Shouldn't there be an acceptance that there are many times in our lives when our emotions direct the path we take, even if that includes packing up and moving to a different culture and country.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: Hi ?????,
Thanks for your kind words. Well, guess in Egypt the happiness of a child comes after 'what would the neighbours think?' and 'what makes us parents happy?'
And I didn't write my answer to defend myself (don't think I'm doing anything wrong actually), more to show people that not everything written here is reality... Guess I was naive to believe it was, maybe you guys all make stuff up ? Maybe Tigerlilly is in reality a Chinese citizen, Schmuckers a German policeman and Sobriquet a shoarmaseller from Alex ? Let me know!
Anyway, I'll be more careful in talking to strangers next time...
PS Tigerlilly: nein, keine Kinder... aber ich kenne den Trick mit dem Valium in der Suppe von meinem kleinen Bruder, der ist erst neun
When an average visitor here is reading the posts because they want to know more about the culture, they will get a very limited view on a limited part of Egyptian society. It can be usefull, but most of the time it are only details, nad they have to find out what`s the truth and what is not. In my expierence a reliable person will be much more usefull to get information. The problem is to find such a person, and I think most of the time this board is not a good place for it.
When people are making a activity is finding out who the persons behind the nicknames are,by chaging their own identities, by sending them PM`s, by hacking their account, by try to get their MSN- or Yahoo identity, by placing private (intimate) pictures and personal details on this board (and all of this has happened), then you know you have to be carefull. They you know their intention is not to help or to inform people.
So, I don`t know who is what in real, and I am not interested in that. And I expect the same from others. I shall answer serious questions when I think they are serious,but I think most of the time it just is curiousity and seeking sensation, and by time everybody shall act in this way, it`s human.
The same for this topic, I don`t think it is written to hurt you, but out of curiosity to your motivation, who is this woman in real and why is she doing this...
You happened to recognise yourself in the story,wanted to clear it up because you felt it was a wrong interpretation. At the same time you published the real callingname of the writer, so she is not anonymous anymore, or at least partly.
I think she won`t like it. I shouldn`t. And that`s why I am ?????, and want to be so.
Wish you luck in your search for a good job, and wish you the same with discovering the Egyptian culture. Be carefull, there are to many people who want to take advantage.
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serene Advocate: Hi all, I am new to ES and have just been reading all the posts for 'desperate women'. I am really glad to see that for equality of the sexes there has been a mention of desperate men. Desperate men and women are in every country, town, city and village. The question for me is what makes them appear to others to be labelled desperate? What are they running away from - we know what they are running to!!! [perhaps not always fully informed though!!]. One possible answer is love - call me a romantic - but unfortunately love flies out the window if and when money problems walk through the front door.
How many of these relationships would continue if these so called 'desperate' people had their new partners move to their own country e.g. England, USA etc.
Shouldn't there be an acceptance that there are many times in our lives when our emotions direct the path we take, even if that includes packing up and moving to a different culture and country.
Perhaps they are running away from disappointments, disappointing relationship(s) and maybe a disappointing life. Once again I do not regard such people as ‘desperate’ but rather idiotic or simply stupid. Obviously they have enough money to partake in their endeavors. I believe in probability and I truly believe people are perfectly capable of finding genuine love in their own ballpark. These people who intentionally seek younger men and younger women are doing so because they have the means to attract poorer third world nationals who are deprived of hard currency.
You get what you pay for and many times the love seekers are in search of something that has definitely eluded them for way too long. Many men have accepted their fate and know exactly what they are getting and that is a ‘girlfriend experience’. That is exactly what many of them want to feel again. They desire so much to be around a younger woman who makes them feel like they are in a happy relationship. These guys lose all common sense and delude themselves totally and simply go with the flow. Seriously they know they are being used and they know that it won’t last but they do not care. It turns awry when they eventually fall in-love with such chicks but as you have mentioned, when the money runs out it all goes sour.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
I see it as freedom and self-realization to be able to start something new, to pack the bags and see something abroad and might even build a future somewhere else whether someone is 20 or 50 and not necessarily love has to be the motiviation.
Also it's not true that people are idotic or depressed who travel and live like that or running away from problems back home. This is simply an unfair generalization which is unfounded. People are individualists.
Grant it we all live only once, we are mortal, and so many people complain that life didn't go the way they wanted it to go, that they regret things they haven't done and probably never will. They ask themselves 'is this all?'
So I see it as an adventure, an adventure of life. And as long you leave the backdoor open to return back to your home - whereever this might be - in case things don't work out or you feel you had enough 'adventure' and life-experience -it's all good regardless if you are male or female.
BTW, it takes a special person just to travel and live abroad, to experience other countries and cultures and might even stay for life. How many people would like to but are afraid of the unknown.
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Wrong thread, Sobriquet.
I corrected it Lilly Posted by Penny (Member # 1925) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serene Advocate: Hi all,
Shouldn't there be an acceptance that there are many times in our lives when our emotions direct the path we take, even if that includes packing up and moving to a different culture and country.
IMHO I don't think so, as adults we should have left those stupid impulses behind in childhood, that is what growing up is all about. Further if such stupidity is totally alien to the country and culture you are running to then even more so, as how do you think you will ever gain any respect as a person there. Try telling an Egyptian woman that you threw up a perfectly good life with opportunities and freedoms that they can only dream of because you fell in love with a young penniless man way below your class and they will think that you must be crazy as well as desperate. ( By You I mean in general and not you personally).
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Wrong thread, Sobriquet.
I corrected it Lilly
Yeah I saw that. And I had to gather 'desperately' some words to make own contribution. Have a nice day! Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Wrong thread, Sobriquet.
I corrected it Lilly
Yeah I saw that. And I had to gather 'desperately' some words to make own contribution. Have a nice day!
Thanks, you have a nice day too. Today is one of those lazy days where I plan to do nothing but chill and relax doing nothing and wearing nothing but a pair of comfy shorts , yes I am known as ‘jungle boy’ on such days.
I might also bore you guys to death with posts like this today Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Today is one of those lazy days where I plan to do nothing but chill and relax doing nothing and wearing nothing but a pair of comfy shorts , yes I am known as ‘jungle boy’ on such days.
Yeah I picture you right now infront of me..... Tarzan! Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
I think there are enough women who were not searching at all, but destiny just brought somebody on their way. Nobody can look into the future and sometimes simply things are leading you to new roads. I never have had a life in mind as I have now, it is just the result on what has been coming on my way. This can be carreer, interests, talents, relationships, friendships, shortly said it is how a life developes! Thirty years ago I was just an ordinary girl, with a ordinary job, living a ordinary life, tried to do her best to reach a goal. That goal was not at all the same goal as I have right now, simply because life guided me into directions that were not in my mind when I was 20. And isn`t life to get out what is in it? Develope talents, personality, carreers, making choices, taking risks etc? When somebody is like this, he/she will make wrong decisions, make mistakes, get hurted, but she/he is developing, it makes them growing... I could have been chosen for more safety, to stay in a job like I had when I was 20,to lead that ordinary life as an ordinary woman, in an ordinary street with an ordinary husband. I should have been a totally different person now, with totally different life. But, the character,the personality in combination with what and who came on my way and the choices I made, have been resulting in who I am right now. the same can be said about women who once happened to meet somebody who came on their way. That somebody has been able to touch her inside in such a way that she made a major choice about her life. She made a choice, and this choice can be a good or a bad one. But at least it developing her personality! She dared to take that risk, maybe without knowing enough, and it was a decisions made on emotions... people can think it was stupid, but at least she had the guts to take a decision.
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
well said (?????)
Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
Loira, did u like Belgium ? (just curious) Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
u know alot of older women try and marry younger men in egypt come one 99.9% of the time the men want money or visa find a man around yr age if he every says anything about a visa drop him
Posted by waterproof_mascara (Member # 13879) on :
Or make his life hell by constantly threatening himm with deportation right TINA? Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
hhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahaha ya they are smart now they just say its a free ride back to mexico that **** dont work here no more
Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Desertgirl:
Belgium is my home country, I was born in Germany, but only lived there for a couple of months. Have no connection to Germany whatsoever, except for my passport and grandma living there. My parents forced me to learn German, for which today I'm grateful, but I can't say it's my favourite language .. except to give orders .. AB - RAUS - WEG - SCHLUSS
Penny:
Don't agree with you that 'running to a different country' is an impulsive action and one should 'grow up and stop following the emotional path'. As said, I've lived in a couple of different countries already and hope there are many more to come.
It is just a different, more flexible lifestyle than most of you people here on the board have, but is it therefore a wrong one? Living in different countries does not have to be unstable, most of my friends live this way (some of them are working for NGO's, are consultants and there's even an antropology professor), but have stable relationships, bought an apartment in one of the countries they lived in (and hang on to it for later) but just like to go where life takes them. Will you tell a diplomat who changes countries every two years to 'grow up' and stay at home?
Schmuckers and others:
To the question why the 'desperate' old women here all seem to go for young boys and not men of their own age: I don't know about the situation in Luxor, Hurghada or Sharm, there it often seems indeed to be a combination of lonelyness and visa/money, but here in Cairo I have the impresson that most of the couples just fell in love without having checked each others birth certificates first. At least that's what I see around me (very subjective, of course, don't have any official statistics about the subject ).
And why are those men often young? Easy: think for one moment how many older men (men above 30) (who are NOT married!) have you met in Cairo? I've been here for 7 months and the answer is ONE. In the office everybody is far under 30 (except for some married managers), and the people I meet via friends are as well. Go to Cilantro's or Beano's or any café and check: nobody over 30. Even the unmarried expats I've met are all at least ten or fifteen years younger than me.
Which by the way, for me is not a problem, they're good fun to be with and for me age is not important in friendship (maybe in marriage it is, don't know) and they usually don't nag about me getting a stable life style, having five kids and staying at home Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
Any sight of Souri around???? Posted by hetsho1982 (Member # 12012) on :
quote:Originally posted by Loira: ---------------------------------- But does it make me sad that he is not strong enough? Yes, it does. He will marry a wife his parents like, he will buy the appartment his parents chose, in the neighbourhood they picked for him and he will sit on furniture they bought. And yes, all that makes me sad, even if I understand it. But I find I can not ask him to break with his family because of me... [/QB]
so u was ready to bear with him if she show for u some strong and face his family and the society for u???or u was going to leave him by the name of (sacrifice)and feeling guilty???
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Leaving your family because they don`t agree into you futurious partner is a big decision, in Egypt, and in Europe as well. And indeed she cannot ask this from him. Leaving his family for a uncertain future, with a older partner from a totally different culture,and the social consequences coming out of this decision: people wouldn`t respect him much because he left his family, choosed for a woman that is considered as having less values because she is Western, and probably only is good for the money and the possibilities. It doesn`t have to be this way, but in this way it shall be judged. He would live an isolated life. Can you ask somebody to sacrifise it all? I think NO...
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Leaving your family because they don`t agree into you futurious partner is a big decision, in Egypt, and in Europe as well. And indeed she cannot ask this from him. Leaving his family for a uncertain future, with a older partner from a totally different culture,and the social consequences coming out of this decision: people wouldn`t respect him much because he left his family, choosed for a woman that is considered as having less values because she is Western, and probably only is good for the money and the possibilities. It doesn`t have to be this way, but in this way it shall be judged. He would live an isolated life. Can you ask somebody to sacrifise it all? I think NO...
i agree 100% with u on that!!!
Posted by hetsho1982 (Member # 12012) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????: ---------------------------------- Leaving your family because they don`t agree into you futurious partner is a big decision, in Egypt, and in Europe as well. And indeed she cannot ask this from him. Leaving his family for a uncertain future, with a older partner from a totally different culture,and the social consequences coming out of this decision: people wouldn`t respect him much because he left his family, choosed for a woman that is considered as having less values because she is Western, and probably only is good for the money and the possibilities. It doesn`t have to be this way, but in this way it shall be judged. He would live an isolated life. Can you ask somebody to sacrifise it all? I think NO...
okay..first i'd like to thank u (?????) coz u answered my question instead..
then..,i think u mention between ur words that people wont respect him coz of reasons which u listed my dear..,so then i guess thats which exactly the society's STUPID comments which (Loira) was talking about..,and anyway and in any case the society will comment even if the guy have girl from his age and from his country..,they will add comments too..,coz its the habit here for most to put their big looong NOSE into other's bussnies...so it will be no much diffrence from both cases..,coz no one can be ware from the society comments...
from another side i'd like to compare with 2 main words...
TRADITION & ISLAM
the tradtions r a way to living contain some acts coming from the humans who live in specific society..,then step by step this acts turn to be rules..
and the Islam is way to living contain rules coming from ALLAH..,and tradition here be part from islam if its good tradtion..,if it bad so we must throw it into the trash(and there is so much bad traditions which is not from islam here)
so we r talking here about the family control to their child's life..,no it shouldnt be in islam coz its destroy the personlity of the person..,and he at last be a doll which controled by his family..,and espcially in marriage..the guy/girl should choose what they wish to live with,not the family who have to choose..,second the rule that there is no force in marriage..,marriage by force in islam is not allowed...
once a man came to Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) and asked him there is 2 men rich&poor came and request my daughter for marriage..,then Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) asked him..,which one u want and which one her heart with??..,the man answered i want the rich and her heart with the poor..,then Prophet Mohammed(pbuh)said a say contain this meaning(i see just marriage for the lovers)..,so its islam...the free choice...
i dont say that he should drop his family opinion into the trash..,they just have to advice him then he is free to take the advice or refuse it...,but the control and force is really unacceptable..,believe me its destroy the person not build..
and the future in anywhere and in anycase is uncertain..,with family or without..,at last who can know how things will going on in the future..,its something in ALLAH'S knowlege
Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
Hi Loira and Souri,
Can I have a say in this? What I'll be saying might be in defence of Souri, but it might upset her too.
After reading Souri's first post, knowing that Souri is a young lady who still has a long way to go to gain the maturity that only years can give, I didn't actually think of Loira as a desperate woman at all. In fact I thought she was a professional and strong lady. In fact I had worries about Souri.
You see, Souri is now in an identity crisis (yes I think so Souri), she also knew someone in Egypt and they broke up, she too left home behind and came to Egypt to work, telling herself it was for the culture, she too has been looking for jobs and it wasn't easy to find one, and she too almost ran out of money.
The thing is, Loira, Souri came here asking us what we thought of you, considering that you (as in you you) would never read this thread, so you were actually anonymous, until you (as in you you) came in and posted. When Souri did that, she was actually seeing her situation in yours, and came seeking advice because she was worried she might become a desperate woman in the eyes of the beholder.
She put her worries about herself into a story about someone else.
Loira, only because you've such a lovely personality, and that you rose above bashing Souri beyond one post, I would actually come to think that you can offer her help, advice, and guidance in real life.
And please don't leave ES. We need more intelligent people to keep the balance. Posted by DawnBev (Member # 11276) on :
I second that! Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Hi MK,
Not sure I'm that intelligent, but thanks for the compliment
Interesting theory about Souri, but I can't judge if it's a correct one, I don't know her at all. Do you? I do prefer not to have anything to do with her anymore though, not because I dislike her (because I don't), but because I can't stand people who lie or make things up, for whatever reason. For example you say she broke up, but she told me she was going to get married soon... Which one is it? I don't want to spend my time wondering which part of her stories are true and which aren't, I want to be able to trust people... whatever their personal story is...
Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
^^ Yes you are intelligent. I am very interlectual myself and it takes one to recognize one.
I don't think Souri is making things up. People have boyfriends and then break up and then have other boyfriends you know.
Shoot hubby wants the laptop.. To be continued. Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
Mmmm... coming to Egypt for a guy, breaking up with him and then marrying another one and all of this in a period of a couple of months... mmmm some people definetely have a more interesting love life than me
But she told me she and her fiancé have been together for more than three years (they met in Europe), so how does that info fit in?
Anyway, she lied about some other things as well, so I prefer not to get to know her any better. Let her rest in peace Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
^^ I don't know many details about everything, but I tend to want to believe people, and I have a gut feeling it's all a series of misunderstandings. I think Souri didn't intentionally lie, maybe she just didn't recall all the details of when and why you came to Egypt. I mean after all, that doomed phone call in which you ladies exchanged your biographies lasted, what, 10 minutes?
All I know is the details that she mentioned here a little more than a year ago about breaking up with her Egyptian fiance, but maybe they went back together, I don't know.
Oh no.. Baby alert.. To be con...
Posted by Loira (Member # 12217) on :
More than half an hour Posted by pseudovellum (Member # 13906) on :
Loira I would be livid if anyone in an office during an interview divulged any personal information about me on this forum, just like Souri will not appreciate MK the most interlectual adding further details of her life here. I would be on the the phone today reporting her for discussing my personal information on a website. This is totally unprofessional, and should be confidential.
Glad you managed to see this thread and put things straight and follow your obvious better instincts about people. Ones you have actually met in person!
Karma
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by hetsho1982: [QUOTE]Originally posted by ?????:
Every family, in Egypt and in Europe as well, will try to avoid their children to make a wrong choice in their futurious partner. For some choices people need a bit more expierence and maturity, and the ability to oversee the consequences of a choice. But, at the same time, parents don`t always have the feelings of their children in mind. They think more rationally (because they are not emotionally involved, they`re not in love) think about the future, how it will be, the think about the people around (what they will say) and they think about their personal preferances. I`m European, but my father also had other boyfriends for me in mind, as the one I did chose. Because of that I`m very cautius to make judgements in BF/GF`s, and in the choice of my children. I have made them aware that it`s their choice and their future. Of course I have problems with their way of thinking, and sometimes with their choices. Guess this is the age-difference. But that`s how it is. I can`t do nothing more as make them aware...because it`s their life. It has nothing to do with religion...
Posted by Automatic For The Peoplê (Member # 13480) on :
quote:Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: We need more intelligent people to keep the balance.
I disagree I like stupid people, they're the best Posted by marydotapple (Member # 13361) on :
Iam I also a desperate woman if I travel 250 miles, to visit a egyption brother.His car wont make the jounery to here as it just goes 140 miles then he has to stop otherwise it might blow it self up... ROFLMAO.. Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
quote:Originally posted by pseudovellum: Loira I would be livid if anyone in an office during an interview divulged any personal information about me on this forum, just like Souri will not appreciate MK the most interlectual adding further details of her life here.
Errr, I didn't add further details to Souri's life. I just said what I thought of the whole saga, based on information that Souri made public on this forum along the years.
quote: I would be on the the phone today reporting her for discussing my personal information on a website. This is totally unprofessional, and should be confidential.
Easy, lady! That would be an eye for a post! I mean to all of us, Souri and Loira are just fictional characters! Besides, this could backfire. I mean don't you think the whole company will be having a look at this thread when it gets reported?
Again, Loira, I would be really really pissed if I were you, but then again, I know that you wouldn't cause any damage even if you could.
Posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine (Member # 11915) on :
No threads for desperate men ya auto walla eh?
Posted by pseudovellum (Member # 13906) on :
instead of telling lies about another member she should have told the truth about herself
If the thread gets reported and the company look at the thread they will realise that one of their employees listens into an interview, makes false assumptions, writes fictitious stories of a stranger and would then consider holding interviews in a more private setting. I am firmly behind Loira on this one.
we obviously see confidentiality differently
that's fine
Posted by hetsho1982 (Member # 12012) on :
then (?????) thats how it should be things going..,
1-guy/girl choose his/her soulmate whatever this things (age,culture,land,etc..)
2-family accept or refuse the choice of their son/girl.
3-guy/girl will show so much insist for his/her choice.
4-the family will try so hard to resist this choice and make him/her give up.
5-they will fail so here they have 2 things to act..
First:accept their child's choice and realize that he is adult enough to deal with the results of his/her choice if it will be good or bad results after.
Second:refuse their child's choice and act so wrong by giving him/her their back..,then it will be their own mistake not his/her mistake..,and even though their action about that..,the child should try hard from time to another to make things better..
but so if we imagine that the lover has left his love by the name of sacrifice or feeling guilty that he/she made her family angry at him..,then really his/her sacrifice will be without any meaning and will be so useless action..,coz it will just leave pains inside the other side and things wont ever going to be better between he/she and his/her family again..
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Okay. This is Europe. We have far more similarities as you should expect. Let me tell you something real honest, and you`re not going like it, but it is the truth. I have children in this age, so I can give you perfectly examples.
Last week I heard my son went to my daughters room, asking in an alarmed way : I heard you have a date with a Mohamed. Is this true? I heard him asking, and I was alarmed too! Me, who is in Egypt every 2 or 3 months, who has friends there, who loves and appreciates them, who knows the culture, I was alarmed only because the name was Mohamed.( because I know how many immigrants are. Many, not all) I didn`t wait untill I could give an opinion anyway because I never saw him, but only because of the name I made myself a judgement, and my son did the same. I made myself a judgement,it flashed through my mind,and as soon as I did, I realised it was ridiculous. ( I didn`t speak it out)
After all that Mohamed seemed to be one in a group and after all he didn`t show up, like many Mohamed`s do
But, do you recognise the similarities? Imagine yourself a young man, we shall call him Mohamed again. Mohamed has a date. His family discovers, is alarmed, and is asking : I heard you have a date with Betty Boop. Is this true??? Betty Boop is 15 years older, devorced, and American. Besides that, she doesn`t wear hijab and she is Christian. Do you think the family will say: It is your choice, or will they be alarmed???
Both will be alarmed, only because of the preoccupations... It is the sad truth about how people think.
Maybe when it is serious, and they meet each other, and get to know each other well, maybe they will appreciate and value each other, who knows? But most of the time they won`t get a chance...
Only because they are Mohamed and Betty Boop...
Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: No threads for desperate men ya auto walla eh?
Batty More than half of Egypt is full of desperate men trying to get laid with whatever woman they happen to bump into. Why don`t you start a thread on this?
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by *Souri*: I met a woman in Egypt (late 30's) who met her husband online (believe it or not) and he is late 40's. They liked each other, met and married. They now live a very happy life in America and are doing well.
I have recently met a couple with exactly the same age difference as the one you know. The woman is late 30 and the man is late 40 and they have been happily married for 5 years now and live in Egypt. I have noticed that mixed couple work better when the tow of them are already divorce, is much more easy for them to accept their differences. But when is their first engagement is always much harder to take the right decision I guess they must get a lot of pressure to married the perfect woman who would pleased the all family.
hahah to please the family i will not marry a man if i have to please the family i will marry him not his family although i would be a part of their family they must eccpect me for me and repect the fact he loves me we dont have thid problem but im just sayin marry the man not the family be yrself if the family dont like ya thats their loss!!!
Posted by Automatic For The Peoplê (Member # 13480) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra88:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine: No threads for desperate men ya auto walla eh?
Batty More than half of Egypt is full of desperate men trying to get laid with whatever woman they happen to bump into. Why don`t you start a thread on this?
Using that logic your entire country.....wait, your entire hemisphere consists of desperate men and women
Posted by Serene Advocate (Member # 13882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Penny:
IMHO I don't think so, as adults we should have left those stupid impulses behind in childhood, that is what growing up is all about. Further if such stupidity is totally alien to the country and culture you are running to then even more so, as how do you think you will ever gain any respect as a person there. Try telling an Egyptian woman that you threw up a perfectly good life with opportunities and freedoms that they can only dream of because you fell in love with a young penniless man way below your class and they will think that you must be crazy as well as desperate. ( By You I mean in general and not you personally). [/QB]
No I don't think that people should lose those stupid impulses and leave them in childhood is that not the phrase 'young at heart' describes. What about the couple who have been married for many years, and then suddenly one of them falls in love with someone else, gives everything up to be with them. Is that not an impulse. I am sure those people who act on these so called impulses to move country to be with someone they are in love with have also given thought to what they are doing - not exactly an impulsive action as it does take some planning. I should know I have a friend who is going to do exactly that!!!!
Posted by Serene Advocate (Member # 13882) on :
More than half of Egypt is full of desperate men trying to get laid with whatever woman they happen to bump into.
Not just in Egypt my friend but the world over. All those desperate men to meet up with all those desperate women LOL
Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serene Advocate: More than half of Egypt is full of desperate men trying to get laid with whatever woman they happen to bump into.
Not just in Egypt my friend but the world over. All those desperate men to meet up with all those desperate women LOL
This makes more sense Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serene Advocate: More than half of Egypt is full of desperate men trying to get laid with whatever woman they happen to bump into.
Not just in Egypt my friend but the world over. All those desperate men to meet up with all those desperate women LOL
hahaha i have met a few online them some lil horney toads i just ignore them i say im married and they still dont care what pisses me off is when i gnore them they make a new id and said im sorry i couldnt see yr chat duh dummy i ignored u lol
Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
I received a PM from a member of this forum who advised me to post my version of the story of “desperate woman”: to try to clarify the misunderstanding" which I think is not but more an attack on me from a frustrated woman whom I naively helped when she was “ desperate “ to find a job in Cairo
On the phone she mentioned to me that she was looking for a job.
When I arrived in Cairo I was helped by a lot of people who kindly have send my cv to their companies they work for, and its thanks to some of them that now I m working so I said to myself this is my turn now to help someone.
I called her back and kindly proposed her to send her cv to my manager. She came for an interview, along with many other people before and after her for the same position with similar skills and experiences. When people are interviewed I m often asked to checked if whether their languages skills are ok for the position or no. This is why I m always there while candidates have their interview, and my comments on them are nothing than professional as I am asked to assess if whether their French is good enough. The person I was talking about in this thread has been interviewed for the same position, but has nothing to do with Loria at all and is totally anonym. This person came along with many other candidate graduated form some tourist, and everything which is related to languages studies (including languages teachers). This person I spoke with has also never heard about ES, and if I knew she was reading this forum even sometimes I would have never ever post such king of thing and of course I knew that Loria was frequently reading ES as when she came for the interview I was in break and was reading ES on my computer and she told me that she likes sometimes reading some threads.
Anyway During her attacked Loria has forgot to mentioned that is me who have kindly arrange this interview for her when I called her for the room she wanted to rent, she also forgot to mention that after beeing rejected for the position, I and my colleagues have also kept sending her resume to some other departments in the hope that they would call her back for an interview, and If I would have felt that she was a “desperate woman” and that she could not have any chance like the real desperate woman, I would have certainly not send her cv like I did and would have advised her otherwise. After what she wrote about me and after having played the victim , I have tried to contact her at least to explain to her what I just said but she always refused to listen to me, she preferred bashing me on a forum, and delivers some very personnel information without even thinking about the consequences it could have on my life .
If I was in Loria shoes and would have read this I would have been very upset, but before bashing someone like she did, I would have also wondered how come a person whom I don’t even know and think that am a desperate woman is sending my cv around her company in order to help me to get a job. I would have also wondered how come she posted such kind of information as she knows I frequently read ES.
Loria I do not think that you will meet many people who will try to help you out like I did so please think twice before making such kind of accusation and if you do meet someone who is willing to send your cv around like I did without knowing you, don’t forget next time to say thank you !!!!!!!!
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Alright, it's clear now for everyone to see. It was all a big misunderstanding, two different people simply got mixed up. It's all good now and clarified. Wonderful! Posted by *Souri* (Member # 9095) on :
Thank you for trusting me Tigerlily, also thank you MK to have kindly avised me to post my version of the story.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Egypt must be covered with elder woman who are searching for a job after their young boyfriend has decided to marry somebody else.
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Egypt must be covered with elder woman who are searching for a job after their young boyfriend has decided to marry somebody else.
Elder woman??? you consider woman in their 30's and early 40's elder woman?? . Why are you always such a negative person lately??. I used to enjoy your posts alot, but lately all they do is fall flat...
Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
Thenility thuckth.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Lol I hope I don't become senile (knocking my knuckles on wood). Oh, I hear someone at the door, brb. Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: Lol I hope I don't become senile (knocking my knuckles on wood). Oh, I hear someone at the door, brb.
Bring me walker, granny pants and my physic, smucks and MK.. HaaaaH, whats that, cant hear ya too well forgot to put my ears in..Wherre did I put that hearing aid??? Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
Now that it seems to be one big misunderstanding, I wonder how many people in this world are at war with each other due to mere miscommunication.
And it also proves that my Freudian analysis was utter crap.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Egypt must be covered with elder woman who are searching for a job after their young boyfriend has decided to marry somebody else.
Elder woman??? you consider woman in their 30's and early 40's elder woman?? . Why are you always such a negative person lately??. I used to enjoy your posts alot, but lately all they do is fall flat...
Sure! As soon as there is an age-difference that`s more then 10 yrs., I think 'elder woman' is a logical conclusion. Is this negative???? I think this is selective indignation. Read all my posts, and then make a conclusion...
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Egypt must be covered with elder woman who are searching for a job after their young boyfriend has decided to marry somebody else.
Elder woman??? you consider woman in their 30's and early 40's elder woman?? . Why are you always such a negative person lately??. I used to enjoy your posts alot, but lately all they do is fall flat...
Sure! As soon as there is an age-difference that`s more then 10 yrs., I think 'elder woman' is a logical conclusion. Is this negative???? I think this is selective indignation. Read all my posts, and then make a conclusion...
I have read all your posts for a very long time. My open always was when I read your posts that you are a very intelligent person who gave good, insightful advice. Lately, However, all I see is negativty, concern with social class, and keeping stereotypes alive. This is honest 100% opinion, not bashing, just an observation. You put people into a box lately ???, you are contributing to an opinion that is fast fading away. People grow and change, the world grows and changes......In order to affect change then society has to be remolded in thoughts. Rigid opinions such as the ones that you hold lately and convey in your posts show this. You are a victim of old thoughts, and old ways. Life expectancy-years ago 60 was considered dead, now it is considered the new 40. The internet, ease of travel,cultures mixing and adapting to fit the world in the 21st century- This is the excitement of advancement in our world.. I could stereotype your behavior, but then that wouldnt be fair to you , would it??Dont you think that there are those in egyptian society who also want to grow and change???? Really, lately I've been wondering what is happened to you cause I thought you were a little bit deeper and caring than what you have been portraying in your posts recently ..... As for Selective indignation....I am 38 yrs old, I am attractive, I am alive and I will not be put out to pasture just yet . Really, your attitude about this went out years ago..Nothing wrong with dating someone who is younger or older.Its all about sincerity, love and maturity level. A dog is a dog whether he is egyptian, american or from timbuktu,age 60 or age 20.I find your attitude about this,especially as a therapist who is supposed to encourage positive change and need for objectivity ,is lacking lately and Im kinda dissapointed with this.... Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
40 is a great age, believe me. You are beyond caring for other peoples opinions. More confidence than in your 30's. I like things as they are now. Life is good!!!!!!!
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by young at heart: 40 is a great age, believe me. You are beyond caring for other peoples opinions. More confidence than in your 30's. I like things as they are now. Life is good!!!!!!!
I agree with you. I will be fine when I am in my 40's. Seems like some women miss out on this because of hang ups and social constraints..
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
I think you just don`t understand me. I`m not going to defend myself, and I think maybe it`s better to don`t make inferences when you don`t know or don`t understand the intention behind pronouncements in common. Again it was no expression that regarded anyone personally, but it is answered again in a personal judgement. When you read my posts carefully, as you claim you do, you can see that there is no personal attack in most of the posts. Only when somebody attacks me personally, it can happen that I think it`s permitted to answer in the same way. You could also have asked me: What do you mean to say with such an expression? Then I could have explained, and you could agree or don`t agree. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A DIFFERENT OPINION!!! By the way; selective indulgation means that you feel insulted by remarks made only one person. Anybody else could have placed this remark without being attacked. I feel I stepped on toes because you feel a negative judgement in the elder woman/younger man issue. Your opinion is that it is nothing wrong with it, my opinion in this was that it is a often occuring phenomenon in Egyptian society. And that it is a to much co-incedence that two women in a similar situation wanted that same job. There are three possibilities: 1. Egypt is covered with this kind of couples 2. It is not true 3. It`s a co-incedence
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????: I think you just don`t understand me. I`m not going to defend myself, and I think maybe it`s better to don`t make inferences when you don`t know or don`t understand the intention behind pronouncements in common. Again it was no expression that regarded anyone personally, but it is answered again in a personal judgement. When you read my posts carefully, as you claim you do, you can see that there is no personal attack in most of the posts. Only when somebody attacks me personally, it can happen that I think it`s permitted to answer in the same way. You could also have asked me: What do you mean to say with such an expression? Then I could have explained, and you could agree or don`t agree. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING A DIFFERENT OPINION!!! By the way; selective indulgation means that you feel insulted by remarks made only one person. Anybody else could have placed this remark without being attacked. I feel I stepped on toes because you feel a negative judgement in the elder woman/younger man issue. Your opinion is that it is nothing wrong with it, my opinion in this was that it is a often occuring phenomenon in Egyptian society. And that it is a to much co-incedence that two women in a similar situation wanted that same job. There are three possibilities: 1. Egypt is covered with this kind of couples 2. It is not true 3. It`s a co-incedence
I never said you were making personal attacks on anyone. Nor am I making any kind of point on this one topic.You do this with everything lately, in a general way, not against one person. Your posts are discriminatory towards egyptian males,your continued obsession lately in your posts with social classes, and the idea that a society cannot evolve and change too meet the world is also what I was pointing out. Since Im not involved with a gigalo from hurgada or luxor nor am I elderly, your post does not attack me personally nor do i really care about it if it did apply to me. You are focusing on one thing... I am saying that lately your posts are very negative and portrays the writer to be very narrow minded and snobbish.This is directly opposite of what you were in the past and as a therapist knows better than to do. Your portrayal of egyptian men is almost predudicial.Now I had stated I gave you an honest opinion,IT WAS NOT AN ATTACK,, and you became very defensive-something that you never used to do in the past. Allowing for someone to give their honest opinion is also a courtesy that you should give, not just ask for.. Posted by Almaz (Member # 13525) on :
There are more than three million Egyptians abroad so, Egypt is always regarded in the migration literature as a labor-sending country.
During the past 10 years or so, Egypt has become a receiving country. It has affected our socioeconomic, juridical, and political situation.
Retired FOREIGNERS establish themselves in Egypt by investing in housing, land, businesses; driven by a cheaper life, by passion, by boredom, by love for archeology, etc;
Young studs are cashing in. Foreigners have become a 'cash cow' in Marketing terms. Older women are buying younger men. It is a demand and supply situation. It is a shame but a fact. It has become a trend and it is affecting the Egyptian life in touristic areas, and other areas as well.
Most Egyptians have accepted that trend as part of the new socioeconomic era. Will it change? It depends on the 'supply'.
Posted by ExptinCAI (Member # 1439) on :
rumi, you might want to consider that ???? is simply echoing the prevalent attitude one might find in egypt.
that you feel young at mid 30s on the arm of an early 20 something year old is your business.
doesn't mean the rest of egyptian society isn't going to label you as too old for your partner.
ditto on social and class commentary.
it's not so much negativity, it's simply that so many women who don't know much about the country post on here, and (in my opinion) ???? is simply trying to address that.
now if you'd like to lecture most egyptians about how backward they are because they're so class-oriented, be my guest. good luck, too.
Posted by MK the Most Interlectual (Member # 8356) on :
Well said ya Almaz.
Posted by hetsho1982 (Member # 12012) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: -------------------------------------- doesn't mean the rest of egyptian society isn't going to label you as too old for your partner. [/QB]
actually its what the society doing all the time,let their BIG LOOONG nose in others life and label things..,not just about this thing,in any case society comments
if he married poor girl they will label him as foolish man who married dirty girl which not fits him
if he married rich girl they will label him just thief who married to steal her money
if he married to pretty girl they will label him as stupid guy who married from playing naughty bad girl
if he married from ugly girl they will label him as blind man who married from monkey
if he married and take his wife away they will label him as sick Isolated man
if he married from poor girl from poor country they will label him as sick crazy.
if he married from divorced woman they will label him as crazy loser
if he didnt marry they will label him as spoiled man who have some wrong
they will always label and they will always comment in any case and in any time,lot of times i feel that society is just have one job (to spoil and destroy others life) then after desroying their life they leave them to die alone,its unjust society then who person should not let them to destroy his/her life
im muslim and in my relgion i have pretty much good example about this topic (Prophet Mohammed was poor and younger & Lady Khadija was older and richer and was married 2 before him,then they got married and they were so maching to each other..,Prophet Mohammed wasnt imposter and Lady Khadija wasnt desperate) and society didnt say any thing,didnt comment,didnt label,it was beduien society by the way!!!!
for muslims including egyption society(muslims who claim that they follow Prophet Mohammed in his actions)i send this example
for non muslims i say,try to compare between 2 things for muslim (traditions & islam),the muslim belong to islam before belonging to stupid traditions & society comments,or that which should be according to our faith.
question pls,in ur socities there at ur countries ur actions and ur opinions r same or its just something u have about Egypt and egyptions only???!!!!!!!!
ALMAZ,i hate ur words really
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Okay, this was the original comment:
quote:Originally posted by ?????: Egypt must be covered with elder woman who are searching for a job after their young boyfriend has decided to marry somebody else.
It was a comment to the exploination that the seemed to be a job-vacancy for foreign women. There seemed to be AT LEAST two women who were looking for such a job. And BOTH were kind of similar in the describtion that could suit on "elder woman/younger men".
This is what Souri is stating. The wrong woman felt that it was about her, and reacted in a defensive way.
So, is there is one job, and AT LEAST two women are coming for that, and both are/were in a elder women/younger men relationship,then you can ask yourself, how many are there?
It still is a rather unusual situation, can this be a co-incedence, or are there more couples like this, as we think there are?
Or, when it isn`t, is this the truth? Because older/younger, and the younger was marrieng somebody else... is this reality? Two at the same time?
It is not giving a opinion about older/younger, only as the fact that she is older/and he is younger. It doesn`t say it`s good, and it doesn`t say it`s bad. Only the static fact that she is older, nothing else.
You can ask my opinion about these relationships, if you are interested. You can ask, because I didn`t say anything about my personal opinion in this. I just mentioned a static fact.
When you are telling somebody he is negative, you can think it`s an opinion, the one who recieves, will feel like attacked. I think that is a logical reaction.
When you are making a remark that there seem to be a lot of older/younger couples, without saying anything postive/negative, why should somebody feeled attacked.
First one is a personal remark, adressed to someone in particular. Second one is in general.
That`s the difference.
So, time for a question to ask you: Why you feel a general remark as "Egypt must be covered with elder woman who are searching for a job after their young boyfriend has decided to marry somebody else" as negative?
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
quote:actually its what the society doing all the time,let their BIG LOOONG nose in others life and label things..,not just about this thing,in any case society comments
if he married poor girl they will label him as foolish man who married dirty girl which not fits him
if he married rich girl they will label him just thief who married to steal her money
if he married to pretty girl they will label him as stupid guy who married from playing naughty bad girl
if he married from ugly girl they will label him as blind man who married from monkey
if he married and take his wife away they will label him as sick Isolated man
if he married from poor girl from poor country they will label him as sick crazy.
if he married from divorced woman they will label him as crazy loser
if he didnt marry they will label him as spoiled man who have some wrong
they will always label and they will always comment in any case and in any time,lot of times i feel that society is just have one job (to spoil and destroy others life) then after desroying their life they leave them to die alone,its unjust society then who person should not let them to destroy his/her life
I agree with you in this. I have noticed in Egypt GENERALLY it seems the job of the soceity to pull everyone else down. This is an envy element. 'IF I CAN'T BE HAPPY NOBODY ELSE WILL BE EITHER!'. Whatever. Everything is judged about everybody else, while few will judge themselves.
I've also noticed that GENERALLY they judge the man more in reference to how he marries. The women are judged on so many other levels, that deserves an entirely different thread. The men are really judged and scrutinized a lot in their choice of wives. I find it very hypocritical and amusing, but also sad.
I understand what you mean.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by hetsho1982: [QUOTE]Originally posted by ExptinCAI:
I don`t think it is typically Egyptian. I think it`s human. Everyone has certain personal values and opinions, about what is good, what is bad, what is permitted and what is not,what is normal and what is not. This personal opinion is composed out of cultural and social habits, class, own expierences, and the emotional and intellegence capability. And the whole world is giving an interpretation to events as a marriage.The way how they react depends on what I said above. Peronally I think the marriage of the Prophet is a bad example. It was a marriage, but not a marriage as usual. The prophet had more then one wife, one older, and one very much younger. So, there were two unusal marriages at the same time. I don`t think that there would be one older woman who should like her husband also marries a very much younger woman. It would feel as a confirmation on the common opinion.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
????? It's not typically Egyptian but I think what hetsho meant was that in this soceity it is much worse, and I have to agree GENERALLY.
what I think hetsho also meant referring to the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was that there are many in this soceity who claim to live their life sunna and follow the examples of teh prophet and live their lives as he lived his. However, they then put tradition over the sunna when it comes to marriage. Hypocritical.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Also generally I don`t think so. I think it depends on social class. It doesn`t only has to do with general opinions, it also has to do with "how big your world is", with who are the ones you`re going along with, and with how you live your life. A society as you describe will fit a great part of this society, it`s called "social controll".
Social controll is something what exists in every society. But, it is a changing habit. Social controll dissappears by certain life-circumstances...
Posted by Almaz (Member # 13525) on :
quote:im muslim and in my relgion i have pretty much good example about this topic (Prophet Mohammed was poor and younger & Lady Khadija was older and richer and was married 2 before him,then they got married and they were so maching to each other..,Prophet Mohammed wasnt imposter and Lady Khadija wasnt desperate) and society didnt say any thing,didnt comment,didnt label,it was beduien society by the way!!!!
True, and Prophet Mohammed was : loyal, responsible, committed, faithful to her till she died He did'nt take a second wife while married to her, he did'nt marry her as a second wife. He was'nt an imposter and she was'nt desperate. She needed a responsible, loyal man to take care of her and her business, he was up to her standards, and the rest is Islamic history.
Why are you comparing Our Prophet and Al Sayeda Khadiga, to what is happenning to the 'corrupted' part of our society today through our resorts and tourist areas etc..?
There must be some Egyptian young men that are responsible, committed and loyal to the decent lady that trust them and gave them money, and a home and some times the business to run, but what about all the others that are not worthy of that trust? and why compare the foreigner, or the rich Egyptian widow or divorcee, that is buying herself a man, and is proud of 'why' she bought him, with Lady Khadiga?
It is a different era, a different society, different morals, a different demand, and a different supply.
It is not only in Egypt, it is a universal trend. In other countries too the trend of older Ladies buying themselves younger unemployed men, buying them clothes and giving them a car and pocket money, is not seen as a 'nice and normal' situation.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Well since the general population of Egypt is in a lower social class that isn't really a debate. I don't know that I would agree that a higher social class is THAT much different, as they will tend to marry within their OWN class anyway, and judge those who do not.
We're speaking religiously and IF religiously the people are claiming to follow the life of the prophet they revere but then changing that when marriage comes then it's hypocricy on a laughable level, no matter what your social class is.
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
quote:Originally posted by hetsho1982: im muslim and in my relgion i have pretty much good example about this topic (Prophet Mohammed was poor and younger & Lady Khadija was older and richer and was married 2 before him,then they got married and they were so maching to each other..,Prophet Mohammed wasnt imposter and Lady Khadija wasnt desperate) and society didnt say any thing,didnt comment,didnt label,it was beduien society by the way!!!!
Assalamu alaykum hetsho1982,
The difference between the marriage of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and Khadijah and what often happens now, is that Khadijah watched the Prophet, how he lived his life and how he conducted his business, and because she was so impressed with his character and morals, she proposed to him, realising that he wouldn't be able to support her financially in the way she was used to living. And after they married he continued to work for her and she was his boss. Posted by Almaz (Member # 13525) on :
We posted at the same time, ladies! Al Salam Alaikom.
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Posted by newcomer (Member # 1056) on :
wa alaykum salaam Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Most Egyptian guys just wanna get ahead in life and their own country doesn't offer any prosperous future for them. So it's understandable that they are resorting to marriages with foreigners to make things better for themselves (generally speaking).
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Most Egyptian guys just wanna get ahead in life and their own country doesn't offer any prosperous future for them. So it's understandable that they are resorting to marriages with foreigners to make things better for themselves (generally speaking).
yes but in the same aspect they should not tell the women they love them if they dont be honest they need say hey ill do this for u or that if u can help me get a visa hey at least she will know what not to expect from him!!!
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Well from our view as foreigners we would feel it as betrayal. But for them it's actually surviving. Is it honorable way? Of course not. But many people get driven to extreme measures. That's why so many foreign women get told on ES, on other websites and in the real life be careful, don't rush etc. Grant it, most of the time these women just think with their hearts and that is wrong.
If Egypt's economy would be better more young Egyptian men would start again to hold on to old traditions and marry local girls. But they simply can't 'afford' them. Egyptian marriages are nothing more than business deals. Show how much you have to offer and I know how much you love me.....
So why should an Egyptian man go through this ordeal what he can't afford in the first place? Any foreign woman - younger prefered as they are fertile - is more than welcomed. She's not demanding, she's not having a whole family as support for her needs, infact she's giving and offering a better future in or outside of Egypt. Can it get any better than that?
But I did meet Egyptian men who would never want to marry a foreign woman, only a good Muslima from their own country. They are still out there but seem to get less and less.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
well i would never meet a man from a website nor a forum!!!out meeting was accident and by chance
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Most Egyptian guys just wanna get ahead in life and their own country doesn't offer any prosperous future for them. So it's understandable that they are resorting to marriages with foreigners to make things better for themselves (generally speaking).
Exactly Lilly, and Tina if the guys were to tell the women then that would defeat their whole purpose of a better life, don’t you think? These guys put themselves under a whole lot of pressure. Egypt is in many ways a dead end country and making money is almost impossible for 90% of the population. I do know one thing many guys working the scene in Hurghada/Sharm/Etc are ridiculed in a playful way but nonetheless ridiculed by their friends and relatives in Cairo. The conversations are very funny and the toyboys openly admit their disgust with themselves and their older companion. It’s a commitment of betrayal, a game of deceit. Many times you’ll hear Egyptian guys talk about having respect for ‘Shareefat” (chaste woman. Foreign women (in general) and women in Egypt who date are almost never classified as “Shareefat’. It’s evident in their stroll, when a guy loves a woman he is happy and proud to walk alongside her. These guys many times play the ducking game when walking with foreign women, also when women ask for them at their friends shop (for example) and upon learning so, their reactions and the responses to their reactions are hilarious.
There is a price to pay and many men in such situations become a joke, similarly to their relationships. I have a friend whose brother does this and I can say he is very committed and his sole purpose of bodybuilding was to attract foreign women in Hurghada. Well fate wasn’t too kind to him; he made his way to Italy but like many other guys, eventually returned home.
Have a nice day Posted by Penny (Member # 1925) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Most Egyptian guys just wanna get ahead in life and their own country doesn't offer any prosperous future for them. So it's understandable that they are resorting to marriages with foreigners to make things better for themselves (generally speaking).
Exactly Lilly, and Tina if the guys were to tell the women then that would defeat their whole purpose of a better life, don’t you think? These guys put themselves under a whole lot of pressure. Egypt is in many ways a dead end country and making money is almost impossible for 90% of the population. I do know one thing many guys working the scene in Hurghada/Sharm/Etc are ridiculed in a playful way but nonetheless ridiculed by their friends and relatives in Cairo. The conversations are very funny and the toyboys openly admit their disgust with themselves and their older companion. It’s a commitment of betrayal, a game of deceit. Many times you’ll hear Egyptian guys talk about having respect for ‘Shareefat” (chaste woman. Foreign women (in general) and women in Egypt who date are almost never classified as “Shareefat’. It’s evident in their stroll, when a guy loves a woman he is happy and proud to walk alongside her. These guys many times play the ducking game when walking with foreign women, also when women ask for them at their friends shop (for example) and upon learning so, their reactions and the responses to their reactions are hilarious.
There is a price to pay and many men in such situations become a joke, similarly to their relationships. I have a friend whose brother does this and I can say he is very committed and his sole purpose of bodybuilding was to attract foreign women in Hurghada. Well fate wasn’t too kind to him; he made his way to Italy but like many other guys, eventually returned home.
Have a nice day
Everything you say is exactly how it is and as you say so many men return in the end because they are not equiped for life in a western country and had no idea what they were letting themselves in for. The same is true for the women, there are very few longlasting relationships under these circumstances, the majority fall apart within a year and the woman returns home.
However I think ES gets this problem way out of prorpotion, leaving the tourist resorts aside you will rarely see any of these types of relationships anywhere else in Egypt, the percentage must be tiny.
Posted by Prince of Nothing (Member # 12020) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: It’s evident in their stroll, when a guy loves a woman he is happy and proud to walk alongside her. These guys many times play the ducking game when walking with foreign women, also when women ask for them at their friends shop (for example) and upon learning so, their reactions and the responses to their reactions are hilarious.
Haha, this reminds me of something.
I had a friend in Jamaica that did exactly what many of these Egyptian gigalos do.
One night, I was on the beach with a hot tourist girl I was attempting to seduce.
I looked up and in the distance, I saw my friend further down the beach talking to a woman. He had his back turned to me, but I knew it was him.
I figured,"That mofo is probably doing the same thing I'm doing!"
On a whim, I decided I'd go and say whats up..
OK thats a lie. My real intention was to see if the girl he was talking to was better looking than mine
So I tell my girl I'd be right back, and I strolled down the beach toward my friend and his companion making as little noise as possible.
I get closer, and he still hasn't heard me coming.
I am now close enough to see who he's talking to, and I can't help but grin....like this
The woman he was talking to, was definitely no beauty queen.
She was a black woman, approximately in her mid to late 40s (Jake was 24 or so at the time, 4yrs older than me) and VERY fat.
Not obese, just fat.
She could barely fit in her two piece, and her enormous tits were sagging down to her pubic mound.
She was sitting on a beach recliner and my friend was kneeling infront of her, holding both her hands, and pouring all sorts of honey down her ear.
Whatever he was telling her, must have been good because she never saw me approaching either even though I was facing her.
After a few seconds of waiting to see if any of them would notice me, I said "Whats up Jake?"
She looked up and saw me, and then Jake turned around and saw me.
When he saw who it was, his eyes literally expanded to insect like proportions! It would not be exaggerating to say that his face resembled this smiley >>
He looked like he had been caught performing a crime, or something highly embarassing like wearing women's underwear.
I stood there watching his face, and it took a great deal of will power not to burst out laughing.
After he quickly removed his hands from the woman's, he croaked:"Oh yah man, wha' a gwan?"
His voice sounded incredibly strained, like he was taking a huge dump.
Me: "Oh nothing. I was just on the beach talking to Terra when I saw you. Just thought I'd come by and say whats up."
Jake: "Yeh man, me jus' a talk to me fren' Anjela."
Me: "So thats who this is. Hi Anjela, my name is Alistair, nice to meet you."
Anjela: "Hello Alistair, nice to meet you."
She had a high pitched girly voice, and was either American or Canadian judging by her accent. Most likely American, because I could detect a bit of southern twang.
Her hand felt moist and plump.
Me: "Well, I just came by to say whats up. I don't want to disturb the both of you any further, so I'll leave you two lovebirds alone."
I intentionally used the word "lovebird" to embarass Jake further
Jake: "Yeh man, dats cool. Me talk to you later."
Anjela: "Bye!"
With one barely concealed grin, I turned around and walked away. After I walked about 10ft, I could barely contain the laughter anymore and my body started shaking. I was even wheezing a bit, because I was trying to stifle the sound coming out of my throat.
When I got back to Terra, I just let loose and guffawed! She smiled and asked me what was so funny. I told her, and she guffawed aswell
About a minute later, Jake and Anjela got up from the beach recliner and began walking back to the Hotel.
She grabbed Jake by the arm, and I could see his body stiffen.
It was clear that he was incredibly embarassed to be seen with this woman!
I watched them walk away, Anjela's ghetto booty (her a$$ was HUMONGOUS!) bouncing up and down....
So the point of this story is?
Nothing.. Just wanted to ratify what Dunes was saying thats all
~Alistair
Posted by DawnBev (Member # 11276) on :
"desperate women"?????
desperate MEN, more like
men will do anything for a shag
Posted by Penny (Member # 1925) on :
Alistair's post just sums up the excruciating embarrasment in all this. It just beats me why the women fall for it.
Posted by DawnBev (Member # 11276) on :
reading an article in one glossy woman's magazine in the dentist the other day - re women travelling to the West Indies specifically for sun, sea and uncomplicated sex - they werent falling for anything. They were getting exactly what they wanted. Just like men visting brothels and street workers - except women don't pay!
I'm glad I've never had a high sex drive - and have had more celibate years than relationship years - not that I'm bothgered what people would think of me if I did have a fling, its nobody else's business.
My friend is in Honk Kong at the moment - packed with US Navy personnel and other male european tourists, she is amazed at the amount of men (old, fat, ugly, bald, young, all of them) draped over young asian girls and Russian prostitutes dressed in gold mini skirts and high heels tottering about in the humidity - my point is - hey sex happens - if children or not involved, or coercian, torture, rape etc - let them get on with it as long as I dont have to watch!
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Prince of Nothing:
quote:Originally posted by Sobriquet: It’s evident in their stroll, when a guy loves a woman he is happy and proud to walk alongside her. These guys many times play the ducking game when walking with foreign women, also when women ask for them at their friends shop (for example) and upon learning so, their reactions and the responses to their reactions are hilarious.
Haha, this reminds me of something.
I had a friend in Jamaica that did exactly what many of these Egyptian gigalos do.
One night, I was on the beach with a hot tourist girl I was attempting to seduce.
I looked up and in the distance, I saw my friend further down the beach talking to a woman. He had his back turned to me, but I knew it was him.
I figured,"That mofo is probably doing the same thing I'm doing!"
On a whim, I decided I'd go and say whats up..
OK thats a lie. My real intention was to see if the girl he was talking to was better looking than mine
So I tell my girl I'd be right back, and I strolled down the beach toward my friend and his companion making as little noise as possible.
I get closer, and he still hasn't heard me coming.
I am now close enough to see who he's talking to, and I can't help but grin....like this
The woman he was talking to, was definitely no beauty queen.
She was a black woman, approximately in her mid to late 40s (Jake was 24 or so at the time, 4yrs older than me) and VERY fat.
Not obese, just fat.
She could barely fit in her two piece, and her enormous tits were sagging down to her pubic mound.
She was sitting on a beach recliner and my friend was kneeling infront of her, holding both her hands, and pouring all sorts of honey down her ear.
Whatever he was telling her, must have been good because she never saw me approaching either even though I was facing her.
After a few seconds of waiting to see if any of them would notice me, I said "Whats up Jake?"
She looked up and saw me, and then Jake turned around and saw me.
When he saw who it was, his eyes literally expanded to insect like proportions! It would not be exaggerating to say that his face resembled this smiley >>
He looked like he had been caught performing a crime, or something highly embarassing like wearing women's underwear.
I stood there watching his face, and it took a great deal of will power not to burst out laughing.
After he quickly removed his hands from the woman's, he croaked:"Oh yah man, wha' a gwan?"
His voice sounded incredibly strained, like he was taking a huge dump.
Me: "Oh nothing. I was just on the beach talking to Terra when I saw you. Just thought I'd come by and say whats up."
Jake: "Yeh man, me jus' a talk to me fren' Anjela."
Me: "So thats who this is. Hi Anjela, my name is Alistair, nice to meet you."
Anjela: "Hello Alistair, nice to meet you."
She had a high pitched girly voice, and was either American or Canadian judging by her accent. Most likely American, because I could detect a bit of southern twang.
Her hand felt moist and plump.
Me: "Well, I just came by to say whats up. I don't want to disturb the both of you any further, so I'll leave you two lovebirds alone."
I intentionally used the word "lovebird" to embarass Jake further
Jake: "Yeh man, dats cool. Me talk to you later."
Anjela: "Bye!"
With one barely concealed grin, I turned around and walked away. After I walked about 10ft, I could barely contain the laughter anymore and my body started shaking. I was even wheezing a bit, because I was trying to stifle the sound coming out of my throat.
When I got back to Terra, I just let loose and guffawed! She smiled and asked me what was so funny. I told her, and she guffawed aswell
About a minute later, Jake and Anjela got up from the beach recliner and began walking back to the Hotel.
She grabbed Jake by the arm, and I could see his body stiffen.
It was clear that he was incredibly embarassed to be seen with this woman!
I watched them walk away, Anjela's ghetto booty (her a$$ was HUMONGOUS!) bouncing up and down....
So the point of this story is?
Nothing.. Just wanted to ratify what Dunes was saying thats all
~Alistair
Jamaica, Ghana, Nigerya, Tunesia, Egypt, there will be others.. Russia, Ukraine, Thailand, Maleisia, China, there will be others...
It`s the same, and it has nothing to do with religion, tradition or culture.
It is a result, caused my life-circumstances, and lack of personal values, maybe it`s better to name it other values.
Their main goal is money, and not values, tradition or culture. In fact it`s the same as prostitution. They sell their body. The only difference is, that the customer has an ilussion in mind, and not a business transaction.So, they get fooled
Penny is stating that this is something that occures in the resorts, the Red Sea Area`s, and very rare seen outside this territory.
Nevertheless two of them were part of the vacancy selection. Or should we consider them as not the same?
We can`t in real. We don`t know them, we don`t know their personality, we don`t know their circumstances, we don`t know their goals,and their motives.
So, we jump into conclusions, as I do too.
We don`t know a thing.
Posted by DawnBev (Member # 11276) on :
and whats with this automatic equation with the words 'desperate' and 'older woman'?!?!?!?
women are like wine - we improve with age!
I'm 48 and, not that I'm vain, but I'm in pretty good shape for my age - older women know what we want and more importantly, know what we don't want.
plenty of younger females around desperate for a relationship, a man to call their own - to be joined at the hip with etc
Posted by mok-mok (Member # 11209) on :
Member # 11276
Rate Member posted August 01, 2007 06:27 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and whats with this automatic equation with the words 'desperate' and 'older woman'?!?!?!?
women are like wine - we improve with age!
I'm 48 and, not that I'm vain, but I'm in pretty good shape for my age - older women know what we want and more importantly, know what we don't want.
plenty of younger females around desperate for a relationship, a man to call their own - to be joined at the hip with etc
i feel the same way we get better as we get older and are wiser too. we think fiest before we do Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Okay, so you`re 48 and.... (older) and you are feeling good by that. You both know what you want, and you`re comparing yourself with wine, the older the better, the more valuable.
(Majority of wines has to be consumed on a young age, it is not suitable for storage. Only high quality, in the right circumstances, will.)
Anyway, you know what you want. What do you want and how do you know you will get what you want?
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Alistair, you are a 'Shallow Hal'! Seriously I hope someone puts a spell on you one day; this would be your worst nightmare, wouldn't it? Posted by Penny (Member # 1925) on :
quote:Originally posted by DawnBev: and whats with this automatic equation with the words 'desperate' and 'older woman'?!?!?!?
women are like wine - we improve with age!
DawnBev & Mok Mok according to ????? you must both be high quality wines LOL Ahh but don't you have to be left laying down in a dark place for a long time for that!! Posted by DawnBev (Member # 11276) on :
ROFL ! Posted by salexian (Member # 13086) on :
Nothing to add, but just wanted to say that this thread is a rarity - well debated and interesting - marred only by Alistair's crass egocentrical post. Now, I'll sit back and wait for the PMs slating me.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Penny:
quote:Originally posted by DawnBev: and whats with this automatic equation with the words 'desperate' and 'older woman'?!?!?!?
women are like wine - we improve with age!
DawnBev & Mok Mok according to ????? you must both be high quality wines LOL Ahh but don't you have to be left laying down in a dark place for a long time for that!!
Not only dark, also the right humudity, temperature, and the right covering! They have to kept behind glass or in a wooden vessel. But, forbearance is no acquittance.
Maybe I have to hide there for a while... Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Did someone talk about vino here? I found these incredible quotes which just perfectly fit into this topic!
Woman’s Quote of the Day:
“Men are like fine wine. They all start out like grapes, and it’s our job to stomp on them and keep them in the dark until they mature into something with which you’d like to have dinner with”
Men’s Counter-Quote of the Day:
“Women are like fine wine. They all start out fresh, fruity and intoxicating to the mind and then turn full-bodied with age until they go all sour and vinegary and give you a headache.
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by ExptinCAI: rumi, you might want to consider that ???? is simply echoing the prevalent attitude one might find in egypt.
that you feel young at mid 30s on the arm of an early 20 something year old is your business.
doesn't mean the rest of egyptian society isn't going to label you as too old for your partner.
ditto on social and class commentary.
it's not so much negativity, it's simply that so many women who don't know much about the country post on here, and (in my opinion) ???? is simply trying to address that.
now if you'd like to lecture most egyptians about how backward they are because they're so class-oriented, be my guest. good luck, too.
I can appreciate what you are saying expat .I do not live in this society, and I normally do not give an opinion on something I really haven't experienced before. As you and ??? are very familiar with egyptian society, this is your experience with it, then I have to concede this point . I really wasnt lecturing, it was not my intention to do so, I have just pointed out as a reader what I felt reading her posts now as opposed to how I felt reading her posts say back in january. I always thought when you were referring to old desperate woman, you were talking about fat,old ugly rich 50 +women who cant get a man in their own country and they buy one in egypt, so I was shocked when she refered to a women in 30's as old. This is not considered in my society as being old. I am not old nor do I have to date a man in his 20's to feel young. I am young!! I am attractive, have never had problems dating -here it's a matter of quality vs quantity ,so I was just really shocked by what she wrote. I feel bad that all egyptian men have to live by a standard such as this, because here they are portrayed so badly,its no wonder then that loira felt as she did, and her bf caved to these social pressures that you talk about.Sometimes people just "fall in love", connect and neither desperation,age or social class has anything to do with it....
Posted by mok-mok (Member # 11209) on :
DawnBev & Mok Mok according to ????? you must both be high quality wines LOL Ahh but don't you have to be left laying down in a dark place for a long time for that!!
thats the beauty of it (laying down for long periods of time) get me Posted by marydotapple (Member # 13361) on :
I remember a few years back now when I went to Morocco with my family..we were having a meal one day quick close to the beach area..my sister and I observed the guys behavior patterns..which was really interesting..every day same group of guys,would be standing together picking out girls..they would locate themselves into groups of three,if they saw a girl in the sea by herself one of the guys would nod to the other to say OK its my try or turn..they would swim into the sea and start chatting with her..if she was not interested he would return to his friends,and 10 minutes later he would try another girl..ROFLMAO.. This happened every day!!!
Even one waiter one night tried to get my attention! He asked me if he I would met him on the beach that same night to drink wine with him...ROFLMAO...He was speaking broken English and I let him speak I did not say anything..But to his surprise I spoke back to him In Arabic saying no thank you..He asked me if I was Muslim I said yes..from that night on he ran after me like a headless chicken saying sorry sorry..I just ignored him and continued to enjoy my Holiday with my family..
So this behavior happens where ever you go..no matter what culture or religion age...man or woman it happens..just have to be wise and clever ..
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by marydotapple: I remember a few years back now when I went to Morocco with my family..we were having a meal one day quick close to the beach area..my sister and I observed the guys behavior patterns..which was really interesting..every day same group of guys,would be standing together picking out girls..they would locate themselves into groups of three,if they saw a girl in the sea by herself one of the guys would nod to the other to say OK its my try or turn..they would swim into the sea and start chatting with her..if she was not interested he would return to his friends,and 10 minutes later he would try another girl..ROFLMAO.. This happened every day!!!
Even one waiter one night tried to get my attention! He asked me if he I would met him on the beach that same night to drink wine with him...ROFLMAO...He was speaking broken English and I let him speak I did not say anything..But to his surprise I spoke back to him In Arabic saying no thank you..He asked me if I was Muslim I said yes..from that night on he ran after me like a headless chicken saying sorry sorry..I just ignored him and continued to enjoy my Holiday with my family..
So this behavior happens where ever you go..no matter what culture or religion age...man or woman it happens..just have to be wise and clever ..
I know this expierences, had similar ones. Scary face, thousands of excuses, and all men around are getting informed to not make this mistake again. Because she is Egyptian, and Egyptian women don`t like this kind of behaviour I`m not Egyptian, but I know how they should behave, and I see how they are behaving. And the scary looks and the thousands of excuses are saying enough...
Posted by Prince of Nothing (Member # 12020) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Alistair, you are a 'Shallow Hal'! Seriously I hope someone puts a spell on you one day; this would be your worst nightmare, wouldn't it?
What makes you think I'm shallow?
~Alistair
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Oh come on, Alistair, maybe that woman was just *fine* for your friend. Maybe he saw something in her what you couldn't see because you haven't talked to her long enough. After all he maybe liked full-figured women, there are out there even if you can't imagine that.
Surprisingly enough you have or had a gigolo friend in Jamaica, well well..... Posted by Prince of Nothing (Member # 12020) on :
quote:Originally posted by salexian: Nothing to add, but just wanted to say that this thread is a rarity - well debated and interesting - marred only by Alistair's crass egocentrical post. Now, I'll sit back and wait for the PMs slating me.
You're not "Anjela" are you?
I must admit, I did use a bit of artistic license when I regaled that story, both for humor and to accentuate my point.
Actually, I couldn't even remember her real name.. Don't know why I decided on naming her Anjela.
As for the crass humor, you're absolutely correct.
When I was writing it, I was thinking,"Man, this is going to piss off some women around here."
But most dudes appreciate crass, tasteless humor and Dunes is a dude, so stop raining on our parade lady
~Alistair
Posted by Prince of Nothing (Member # 12020) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Oh come on, Alistair, maybe that woman was just *fine* for your friend. Maybe he saw something in her what you couldn't see because you haven't talked to her long enough. After all he maybe liked full-figured women, there are out there even if you can't imagine that.
Surprisingly enough you have or had a gigolo friend in Jamaica, well well.....
Believe me, Jake would never have gone with such a woman willingly..
Thats why I was so surprised. He usually targeted the younger, prettier women.
I'm sure this woman offered him something in exchange for sex and companionship.
A few years ago, I learned that he's now living in Miami. Maybe she offered him a way out of Jamaica?
I visited Jamaica every year for Summer during high school, and a few times when I was in the Military.
Alot of women thought I was a gigalo myself; but I don't believe in the concept of money for sex or money for companionship.
Then again, I wasn't as desperate as Jake. To him, I was the priviledged son of a wealthy business man with an American citizenship.
If I had been in his situation, I may have done the same thing..
~Alistair
Posted by Sashyra88 (Member # 11693) on :
<When I was writing it, I was thinking,"Man, this is going to piss off some women around here."
But most dudes appreciate crass, tasteless humor and Dunes is a dude, > Posted by desertgirl (Member # 12450) on :
quote:Originally posted by marydotapple:
So this behavior happens where ever you go..no matter what culture or religion age...man or woman it happens..just have to be wise and clever .. [/QB]
Right !! this behaviour happens everywhere ... Nobody talked about the French ski-instructors yet and their 'tactics' to get in touch with their female 'pupils'...
I won't talk about it either, there might be a French ski-instructor on ES, you never know ...
Posted by Sobriquet (Member # 13217) on :
quote:Originally posted by desertgirl:
quote:Originally posted by marydotapple:
So this behavior happens where ever you go..no matter what culture or religion age...man or woman it happens..just have to be wise and clever ..
Right !! this behaviour happens everywhere ... Nobody talked about the French ski-instructors yet and their 'tactics' to get in touch with their female 'pupils'...
I won't talk about it either, there might be a French ski-instructor on ES, you never know ...
[/QB]
What do they get out of it anyway?! You guys heard about the Egyptian guy who caught a horny Gulf Arab rubbing against his wife? Well the Egyptian guy grabbed the guys thing and said "Estafadtt eehh, Estafadtt ehh" [What did you gain, what did you gain] while squeezing the man's tool.
Embarrassed the hell out of the guy in a Mall in Saudia Arabia
Posted by With a name like Smuckers (Member # 10289) on :
Alistair:
quote:Her hand felt moist and plump.
LOL omg this entire story is hilarious. I agree with you Alistair I wouldn't have been able to control my laughter either. Serves him right to be 'caught'. Now THAT is desperation.
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I know when I came to Egypt there was that little voice in the back of my mind that things wouldn't work exactly how I wanted and I would look so stupid if I went home. Of course my situation is nothing like hers, but moving to a differnet culture entirely has its risks. I would imagine she is more afraid of going home than toughing it out here. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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