hey i wanna ask a question to older women marring younger men! i know yr marrying for the right reasons!love etc but in his future if he wants kids!!! how will u handle this situation!cas u know arab men want them kids!!! would u let him have kids with another women and u adopt? or if u can still have kids would u have one with him!!!
im just curious!!!
Posted by egypt 2007 (Member # 14398) on :
Good question, i am hoping to marry my man in the next year, but have a big hurdle... on trying to explain being sterlised... i know it can be reversed but at 44 and he 26 and the fact he dont want children for a good few years i will be well old... im sure i dont want him to have children with somone else and would consider adoption but um good question.!!!! I have mentioned im sterlised but im sure he does not fully understand. somethign we need to go over again...
Posted by Expecto Patronum (Alchemist) (Member # 12318) on :
Posted by jazzylatin (Member # 14702) on :
I am 45 and my husband 32 wants one. We will try as soon as he gets to the US. My doc says its no problem, we'll see . . .
Posted by amrssnowangel (Member # 6789) on :
Im 43...had tubal at 23...he knew this and while we will try...he is ok if it doesn't happen. He feels its up to Allah if we will have but that he loves me with or without kids. We've talked this over many times over our 4 year relationship. Hoping to have our K1 interview soon...
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
quote:Originally posted by egypt 2007: Good question, i am hoping to marry my man in the next year, but have a big hurdle... on trying to explain being sterlised... i know it can be reversed
I think it's very difficult to reverse it if you are a woman.
Posted by m.e. (Member # 14680) on :
I would have to agree with TL. I think the better option would be directly to IVF.
Posted by advocate (Member # 13367) on :
Isn't it difficult or impossible to adopt in Egypt?
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by egypt 2007: Good question, i am hoping to marry my man in the next year, but have a big hurdle... on trying to explain being sterlised... i know it can be reversed but at 44 and he 26 and the fact he dont want children for a good few years i will be well old... im sure i dont want him to have children with somone else and would consider adoption but um good question.!!!! I have mentioned im sterlised but im sure he does not fully understand. somethign we need to go over again...
When you are unmarried, and you don't have children, be prepared people will ask you about it. Egyptians love children, they think it is abnormal when an adult is not married, because for many of them the family arranges a marriage for them and they expect them to have children. People want children, specially sons, to enlarge their prestige and to be sure that they get the help and care they need when they are old. If you explain your sterilisation by stating you didn't want children, nobody would believe that. A more acceptable answer would be that you'd like to have children and that inchallah you'll get them... Keeping up the family honour is very important to them, and when a woman did something wrong in the eyes of others, it would cause damage to the family honour. So, most men prefer that his family will agree in his choice for his new wife. Very rare they would marry against the will of the family. They think marriage is an important decision, and most men think it would be wise to rely on the choice of his family, instead of making a choice based on romantic idea's or feelings. Of course they're also looking for love and companionship, but financial certainty, social status and having children are at least on the same order of rank. As a Western woman they will forgive you certain 'singularities', but being that much older, and above that the fact that you voluntairly let yourself have sterilised to be able to don't get anymore children will be considered as very strange maybe even unacceptable. They wouldn't believe it, and they won't understand... So, when I'm reading your story, met your bf last year, planning to get married next year, I'm afraid your bf will have a whole lot to explain to his family, and he shall need all his conviction-strength to make this accepted! I don't want to discourage you, but because you're already saying you've tried to explain this to him, and you're doubting he has understood, I think you have to make it clear to him. As soon as he understands, he will know that it won't be easy...
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
Gosh you are all so silly, just accept he is going to have a younger wife for children. To believe anything else is so naive
Posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah (Member # 13948) on :
I agree with the above, such huge age gaps are nothing short of silly in Egypt. Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by akshar: Gosh you are all so silly, just accept he is going to have a younger wife for children. To believe anything else is so naive
not necessarily! some men do love the woman wether they have kids or not!! not all of the men are genuine but some are! i am 36 and he is 33 we want kids in our future but if it doesnt happen he said he is ok with that too but every yr that passes it will get harder and harder!
Posted by brendaandakram (Member # 14139) on :
hi got married in cairo in jan not orfi waitting now on my hubby getting his visa any one no what the time limit is on it also he has applied for a visitor visa but we think maybe it should be a settlement visa so he can work her, I live in Belfast Northern Ireland.Any advice hints or tips thanks Brenda
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by brendaandakram: hi got married in cairo in jan not orfi waitting now on my hubby getting his visa any one no what the time limit is on it also he has applied for a visitor visa but we think maybe it should be a settlement visa so he can work her, I live in Belfast Northern Ireland.Any advice hints or tips thanks Brenda
first good luck!! and if u want better responces u should post a new topic asking about advice!!!
Posted by Reality_Meanie (Member # 14540) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah: I agree with the above, such huge age gaps are nothing short of silly in Egypt.
As the family gets larger with the addition of children from the younger Egyptian wife, expect him to spend less time with the older foreign wife.
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reality_Meanie:
quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah: I agree with the above, such huge age gaps are nothing short of silly in Egypt.
As the family gets larger with the addition of children from the younger Egyptian wife, expect him to spend less time with the older foreign wife.
Or expect to spend time looking after the older children when she is pregnant. Now that can be fun but only if you have accepted the situation.
Posted by Reality_Meanie (Member # 14540) on :
quote:Originally posted by akshar:
quote:Originally posted by Reality_Meanie:
quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah: I agree with the above, such huge age gaps are nothing short of silly in Egypt.
As the family gets larger with the addition of children from the younger Egyptian wife, expect him to spend less time with the older foreign wife.
Or expect to spend time looking after the older children when she is pregnant. Now that can be fun but only if you have accepted the situation.
How? Do these children speak English or the older wife speaks Arabi?
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Of course the children will go to international school, and are speaking english. As a man married to a western woman, you have a certain status to hold on. And because of the obligation to treat every wife the same, that same status will be used for the second, third or fourth wife. If you'll ask me, this is very rare. Most of the time the man will divorce his western wife and marry an Egyptian one after that, because Egyptian women wouldn't appreciate this kind of situation. He could keep her as a secret wife, but you know the gossip and rumours, they travel fast, so in the end the Egyptian wife will discover, and it will give much trouble. The biggest mistake western women are making is to assume the man will marry her for the same reasons as she does; romantic reasons. And most of the time it isn't; a marriage in Egyptian eyes is a whole lot more as only romance. The most important is prestige and status, economical and financial safety, the behaviour and reputation of her and her family. A reputation that possible could be explained negative, gives big red flags, because it will influence his family also. That explains why everybody wants to keep the 'dirty laundry' a secret and inside the family. On the outside the sheets must look bright and clean. And also that is why there ar that much secrets...
Posted by happybunny (Member # 14224) on :
Egypt 2007 quote -
quote:i am hoping to marry my man in the next year, but have a big hurdle... on trying to explain being sterlised.
I don't mean to be mean but i think this statement sounds really weird! If he doesn't understand the full implication of his soon to be wife being sterlised how could you marry him? This is not a little thing, this will effect his whole life. As you have already said he wants children - i really think you need to make sure he fully understands this before you both get really hurt.
Take care Posted by elizabethN (Member # 14096) on :
what is considered old? Now a days women in their late 40's are having babies. This has gone on for years. My girlfriend had her first baby at 46. Not all egyptians want children either. It's a personal decision. Remember Akshar, BLP, RM you do not speak for all Egypt or are you wanting to except that some men from Egypt choose to Love and be with a women older then they are. They don't want multiple wifes and maybe they don't want children either. People are breaking the mold and it's about time. It's 2008!
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
yes betty they say the dont want babies now but later they may change their minds!!we are speaking more along the lines of 50 somethin women with 20 or 30 yr old men!!women in their fifties well its not that easy to have kids no more!!although some can most cant
Posted by happybunny (Member # 14224) on :
i agree, things have changed alot but i also know how different i was in my 20's. Like these men may say now they don't want kids but in 10/15 years time then what? they may change their minds and their wives are 50/60. At least if your 'around' the same age you will both be only around 40 and yes have time to have kids!
Posted by elizabethN (Member # 14096) on :
well if you made that decision before marriage, people can always change their minds about many things in 10-15 years. The chances of a man wanting children age 45-50 years old is slim. If you have a lasting relationship with love then things should not change.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Sometimes life is about compromise. I have two friends, who would have loved kids, but their partners were set against it. So they had to decide to stay with the men they loved or leave in pursuit of someone that wanted to have kids. They're both still with their partners. Yes I know that is western couples and yes things are different in Egypt but attitudes are changing for some.
Posted by MissNoor (Member # 12549) on :
But maybe in 10 to 15 years us oldies won't be around and then they can find that one wife to give them babies right? They will still have time to have children and would have the expierence to please them sexual since the first 50ish wife taught him hahahahah just a thought!
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by MissNoor: But maybe in 10 to 15 years us oldies won't be around and then they can find that one wife to give them babies right? They will still have time to have children and would have the expierence to please them sexual since the first 50ish wife taught him hahahahah just a thought!
ya ok thats true!!at least u would have taught him right!!!!!!
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by egypt 2007: Good question, i am hoping to marry my man in the next year, but have a big hurdle... on trying to explain being sterlised... i know it can be reversed
I think it's very difficult to reverse it if you are a woman.
It's not difficult at all if you find the right doctor.
For the person who hasn't explained sterilization to her husband to be......I suggest you do this pronto. This is almost the first big subject that we went over before deciding to marry and it is very unfair to enter into a marriage without being totally honest about this.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily:
quote:Originally posted by egypt 2007: Good question, i am hoping to marry my man in the next year, but have a big hurdle... on trying to explain being sterlised... i know it can be reversed
I think it's very difficult to reverse it if you are a woman.
It's not difficult at all if you find the right doctor.
For the person who hasn't explained sterilization to her husband to be......I suggest you do this pronto. This is almost the first big subject that we went over before deciding to marry and it is very unfair to enter into a marriage without being totally honest about this.
same here we both want a kid or 2 but he also knows that if we wait longer there is always a chance we will not have kids!!!i would never hide that from some i suppose to love i just say hey here is our options.we can have kids maybe yes maybe no!if u still wanna marry me fine if not keep goin!!
Posted by elizabethN (Member # 14096) on :
Mainstream medicine acknowledges males contribute to infertility, estimating that a male part plays a role in 30 percent to 50 percent of infertile couples. But although women stop producing hormones and run out of eggs when the clock strikes midnight, generally around age 50, sperm counts and testosterone levels generally drop very gradually. Advanced maternal age is still believed to be the primary cause of birth defects such as Down syndrome, even though the link between older fathers and some rare and usually fatal anomalies is acknowledged. Our culture never wants to blame men for anything, which is why most societies will never accept this," he said. "We equate male fertility with sexuality; this is a direct hit to the male ego." Also their is a higher risk with older men having children and autism.growing body of scientific evidence, including two large studies that have found an association between older paternal age and an increased incidence of schizophrenia in children. One, done by the New York State Psychiatric Institute, found a doubling of schizophrenia in children of fathers who were aged 45 to 49 and a tripling of the rate in children whose fathers were over 50; the mother's age had no effect. http://www.4-men.org/sperm/fatherhood-late-in-life.html Posted by amrssnowangel (Member # 6789) on :
My fiance tells me all the time when I bring up the subject of my age and kids...that we can only try to have kids..its up to God if it really happens....but then he adds that he could marry a 20 something girl..and she may still not be able to have babies...or how does anyone know if the MAN can have babies??? Then he asks, if I wanted a child and we found out that he was sterile, would I just leave him? I say no. I love him, he says, "exactly". And THATS wisdom from a YOUNGER man.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by amrssnowangel: My fiance tells me all the time when I bring up the subject of my age and kids...that we can only try to have kids..its up to God if it really happens....but then he adds that he could marry a 20 something girl..and she may still not be able to have babies...or how does anyone know if the MAN can have babies??? Then he asks, if I wanted a child and we found out that he was sterile, would I just leave him? I say no. I love him, he says, "exactly". And THATS wisdom from a YOUNGER man.
That is good advice.
Posted by elizabethN (Member # 14096) on :
see how smart younger men can be? He hit it on the nail. And Egyptian too? Well maybe the other negative people in previous posts will take a good read cause that's impossible words from a Egyptian man right? Posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah (Member # 13948) on :
quote:Originally posted by elizabethN: what is considered old? Now a days women in their late 40's are having babies. This has gone on for years. My girlfriend had her first baby at 46. Not all egyptians want children either. It's a personal decision. Remember Akshar, BLP, RM you do not speak for all Egypt or are you wanting to except that some men from Egypt choose to Love and be with a women older then they are. They don't want multiple wifes and maybe they don't want children either. People are breaking the mold and it's about time. It's 2008!
Hello Elizabeth. You are correct that not all Egyptians want children, but the majority do. While I have no hard numbers, I can give you a round-about off of the top of my head, probably 98% will. Now, if your man is one of those 2% then great, but you must be sensible and ask yourself if it is worth that risk. Is it? Making judgment based upon your own cultural upbringing is the kiss of death, based on Egyptian culture it is [almost] laughable for him to marry a woman much older and choose to have no children. It almost is not done. I know some men have married a woman/girl older than themselves, but in most cases the woman was still old enough to give him children. Otherwise he is divorced and does not necessarily want anymore children and can marry-up without losing his dignity or opportunity to be a father. It might not make sense to YOU but that is how it is here. An Egyptian man marrying a foreigner is usually done out of benefit to the man. This does not mean he cannot be a good husband but the litmus test is the children. USUALLY if he has children with the woman he is serious with her and views her in a high esteem as she is the mother of his children. That is the difference with foreign women who have children with Egyptian men versus the foreign women who do not. There are Egyptian men willing to make a life with foreign women and have and raise a family with her but they are difficult to come by. Most of the men marrying foreigners that I have seen or heard of simply want the benefit of the marriage and nothing more. In the end it is the woman who is the loser. You can view my advice as I speak for all of Egypt or you can view it for what it is, advice from someone who understands the culture better than you. It is the fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Don't forget the family... If a young man wants to marry an older woman, usually the family won't be very happy with that. If he wants to marry an older foreign woman, they will even have more objections. If that woman has had a past, and I think they all have, objections are stronger. Every mother hopes to be a grandmother, in Egypt more stronger as in Europe or the US. She hopes to have a young woman in her house, to help her when needed, who she can teach everything what's needed to be a good wife to her precious son. You all still do not understand the importance of family and their opinion. And to go back to the subject: being age 44 and sterilised is quite a mission impossible to reverse it, and above that it is information she would have to tell them before marriage. But, what are we talking about??? A relationship that is based on a few years of internetcontact and a holiday in Egypt.This family does not know their future daughter in law at all. I should like to hear how they really think about it, and I don't think they will be happy...
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Even for me as a Western woman it is difficult to accept a relationship of a 40-something woman to a young man who could be easily her son. So I can only imagine how Egyptians feel about it.
I don't doubt that some Egyptian men love their older Western gfs/wives but the majority are in such a relationship for their own benefit - as previously pointed out before.
Egyptian men - even the young generation - are still very traditional. They want to marry a young, attractive and fertile woman they can have children with. An older Western gf/wife is seen as a bridge to get them where they want to be - outside of Egypt and hopefully fiancially better off.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: Even for me as a Western woman it is difficult to accept a relationship of a 40-something woman to a young man who could be easily her son. So I can only imagine how Egyptians feel about it.
I don't doubt that some Egyptian men love their older Western gfs/wives but the majority are in such a relationship for their own benefit - as previously pointed out before.
Egyptian men - even the young generation - are still very traditional. They want to marry a young, attractive and fertile woman they can have children with. An older Western gf/wife is seen as a bridge to get them where they want to be - outside of Egypt and hopefully fiancially better off.
If he is from a good family, and they've learned him norms and values, the young man knows what he is expected to do: marry that young, fertile girl, from the same kind of family, with a good reputation, and she will be welcomed with open arms. She will be teached in what they expect from her, and she will be honoured to be such a wife for her husbands family. A Western woman, that many years older, often with an earlier marriage in her past, with other norms, values and believes, does not fit in their picture. Even when the Western woman has all the good intentions of the world, it also would be very difficult for her. Most of the men who are searching for a foreign partner are living in rural area's, very traditional, and the kind of life they are living is so far away from what she is used to. Living with a family, almost no privacy, sharing responsebility in everything what's concerning the family, the moral obligations, all this rules about what she is supposed to do for them... Most women simply have no idea...
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
Lots of good advice above especially the pont about viewing things from your cultural perspective not his
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah:
quote:Originally posted by elizabethN: what is considered old? Now a days women in their late 40's are having babies. This has gone on for years. My girlfriend had her first baby at 46. Not all egyptians want children either. It's a personal decision. Remember Akshar, BLP, RM you do not speak for all Egypt or are you wanting to except that some men from Egypt choose to Love and be with a women older then they are. They don't want multiple wifes and maybe they don't want children either. People are breaking the mold and it's about time. It's 2008!
Hello Elizabeth. You are correct that not all Egyptians want children, but the majority do. While I have no hard numbers, I can give you a round-about off of the top of my head, probably 98% will. Now, if your man is one of those 2% then great, but you must be sensible and ask yourself if it is worth that risk. Is it? Making judgment based upon your own cultural upbringing is the kiss of death, based on Egyptian culture it is [almost] laughable for him to marry a woman much older and choose to have no children. It almost is not done. I know some men have married a woman/girl older than themselves, but in most cases the woman was still old enough to give him children. Otherwise he is divorced and does not necessarily want anymore children and can marry-up without losing his dignity or opportunity to be a father. It might not make sense to YOU but that is how it is here. An Egyptian man marrying a foreigner is usually done out of benefit to the man. This does not mean he cannot be a good husband but the litmus test is the children. USUALLY if he has children with the woman he is serious with her and views her in a high esteem as she is the mother of his children. That is the difference with foreign women who have children with Egyptian men versus the foreign women who do not. There are Egyptian men willing to make a life with foreign women and have and raise a family with her but they are difficult to come by. Most of the men marrying foreigners that I have seen or heard of simply want the benefit of the marriage and nothing more. In the end it is the woman who is the loser. You can view my advice as I speak for all of Egypt or you can view it for what it is, advice from someone who understands the culture better than you. It is the fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
Right on spot words of wisdom,Bastet. Whether liked or not.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
More than age difference per se,i think the most serious and important concern an older woman should take in consideration is if she still can bear children or not with her younger husband.The moment she looses perspective on this she might well consider her union bound for failure. Posted by egypt 2007 (Member # 14398) on :
Doodle bug ... i have explained it but its hurdle trying to make sure he total understands.... i love him and would not marry and tell him after.... god!!
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
So out of curiosity what happens when the man marries a woman who is still able to bear children, egyptian woman also, but they are barren or they are struck with endometriosis or some other female ailment that results in an emergency hysterectomy??? Are you saying that these egyptian woman who get married and have these problems will be turned out by the husband?? What happens if the Man turns out to be sterile???
Look how many thousands of couples each year are unable to bear children, not just western culture. What happens then after years of trying they cannot have a baby???
Posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah (Member # 13948) on :
Not only that Sashyra8 but the age difference. An Egyptian man might marry a slightly older woman than he if she can bear children and have a family. He still gets the benefit and does it in the right way. On the other side, if an Egyptian man marries an older woman (foreigner) and she cannot have children and it is a serious union, usually he has children from a previous marriage.
There are factors you can ask yourself about the seriousness of the relationship. * Have you met his family? * Is he introducing you as his wife (and know for sure - do you understand what he is saying when he introduces you?) * Are you still able to bear children? * Has he been 100% honest with you in all things from the moment you met? * Does he flirt with you often and give you romantic words each time you talk to the point of exaggeration? * Does he trash Egyptian women in verbalizing why he wants to marry you? * Is there a large age difference between the two of you? * Are the religions different? (not always important but mostly it is) * Has he asked you for even the smallest amount of money? Even one EP ? * Does he speak with you in a sexual way on the phone, in person or online, instead of having respect for you and allowing you your dignity? * Are there things about his life that seem hidden? * Are there times he cannot be located? * Is he dependable? * What are his friends like? * How does he treat the women in his family? Not how he speaks of them, how he actually DEALS with them.
There are several factors, not all fool proof but you can get a general idea.
(Rumi, that answer depends on the man in question from what I have witnessed)
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
If he has never had children,sooner or later he will eventually search for those.Given that he's Egyptian,that is.The Western mentality can be totally different here. It's mostly a cultural thing for Egyptians this,and that we think that because it's not fair we might change their mind is really far fletched. Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv: So out of curiosity what happens when the man marries a woman who is still able to bear children, egyptian woman also, but they are barren or they are struck with endometriosis or some other female ailment that results in an emergency hysterectomy??? Are you saying that these egyptian woman who get married and have these problems will be turned out by the husband?? What happens if the Man turns out to be sterile???
Look how many thousands of couples each year are unable to bear children, not just western culture. What happens then after years of trying they cannot have a baby???
By co-incedence I met such example. It IS a reason for divorce, people would understand. But; isn't this also in the US? In Europe I know similar examples, where a marriage ended in a divorce because one of two insisted in having children. Think we must not forget that we're talking about relationships in common, and not every relationship is in such state that they can bare every problem or developments...
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv: So out of curiosity what happens when the man marries a woman who is still able to bear children, egyptian woman also, but they are barren or they are struck with endometriosis or some other female ailment that results in an emergency hysterectomy??? Are you saying that these egyptian woman who get married and have these problems will be turned out by the husband?? What happens if the Man turns out to be sterile???
Look how many thousands of couples each year are unable to bear children, not just western culture. What happens then after years of trying they cannot have a baby???
By co-incedence I met such example. It IS a reason for divorce, people would understand. But; isn't this also in the US? In Europe I know similar examples, where a marriage ended in a divorce because one of two insisted in having children. Think we must not forget that we're talking about relationships in common, and not every relationship is in such state that they can bare every problem or developments...
I bet in this case in Egypt more than one man would apply his allowance to have more than one wife at a time. Posted by CheezyPoof (Member # 8386) on :
This may sound horrible but did anyone ever consider that for the Egy man, a sterile, wife who has a tubal ligation or older wife may equal a safe and easy exit when the time is right? Just a thought.
Posted by Sashyra8 (Member # 14488) on :
quote:Originally posted by CheezyPoof: This may sound horrible but did anyone ever consider that for the Egy man, a sterile, wife who has a tubal ligation or older wife may equal a safe and easy exit when the time is right? Just a thought.
As rude as it may sound,it can be true.
Posted by CheezyPoof (Member # 8386) on :
I really didn't mean to be rude. It's just a thought and maybe something to consider if the husband/fiance is exhibiting suspect behavior or may in the future. Some ppl will stop at nothing to accomplish a goal.
quote:Originally posted by Sashyra8:
quote:Originally posted by CheezyPoof: This may sound horrible but did anyone ever consider that for the Egy man, a sterile, wife who has a tubal ligation or older wife may equal a safe and easy exit when the time is right? Just a thought.
As rude as it may sound,it can be true.
Posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah (Member # 13948) on :
Of course CheezyPoof, he can later say he changed his mind and knows the foreign wife will not agree to a 2nd wife. It is his easy-out. Of course she would be lucky if he did it that way, most I have heard of just leave without word or plan.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by CheezyPoof: This may sound horrible but did anyone ever consider that for the Egy man, a sterile, wife who has a tubal ligation or older wife may equal a safe and easy exit when the time is right? Just a thought.
I'm having translation-problems. Don't understand what you mean by safe and easy exit.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by CheezyPoof: This may sound horrible but did anyone ever consider that for the Egy man, a sterile, wife who has a tubal ligation or older wife may equal a safe and easy exit when the time is right? Just a thought.
I'm having translation-problems. Don't understand what you mean by safe and easy exit.
Well it's much easier to leave a woman when you don't have children with her than one who does.
Having children is definitely important and before we married we actually broke things off for a few weeks because he wasn't sure if he could marry someone with such a high possibility of NOT having a child. We reconciled though after those few weeks of not talking and he accepted that if it is God's will it will happen.
I recently actually offered that he take a second wife if after a few years I am not able to bear children and he said he would only do that if I picked her out for him. I said ok but she'll have warts all over her body and will be 5 times his size. Posted by CheezyPoof (Member # 8386) on :
What I meant was that if the man was planning on the marriage being temporary (for visa or GC) then he'd have nothing to force him to stay or have a connection to the woman ie a child.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
quote:Originally posted by doodlebug:
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by CheezyPoof: This may sound horrible but did anyone ever consider that for the Egy man, a sterile, wife who has a tubal ligation or older wife may equal a safe and easy exit when the time is right? Just a thought.
I'm having translation-problems. Don't understand what you mean by safe and easy exit.
Well it's much easier to leave a woman when you don't have children with her than one who does.
Having children is definitely important and before we married we actually broke things off for a few weeks because he wasn't sure if he could marry someone with such a high possibility of NOT having a child. We reconciled though after those few weeks of not talking and he accepted that if it is God's will it will happen.
I recently actually offered that he take a second wife if after a few years I am not able to bear children and he said he would only do that if I picked her out for him. I said ok but she'll have warts all over her body and will be 5 times his size.
u go girl i am with u on that one
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by CheezyPoof: What I meant was that if the man was planning on the marriage being temporary (for visa or GC) then he'd have nothing to force him to stay or have a connection to the woman ie a child.
Could be, but when a man has really bad intentions he will be bad in this too. So, he wouldn't care. Or, cares for the child but not for the mother...there are so many different ways to act. Having a child-wish could be a sign that he is serious, but it also can be a trick, because he knows that it will be almost impossible. And how about wanting children to empower women, this also happens, just like the opposite happens... It's all not strange, because it happens everywhere, also in Western relationships.
If my son from 25 comes home to introduce his new 44 yr. old girlfriend, I would have problems with that, and I wouldn't trust her at all. When she would be foreign I would even have more doubts, and suspect her for anything bad. Guess this is about the same. I cannot even imagine my son would do so! And I think it is the same for Egyptian parents, above that they have to deal with a large amount of cultural, social inheritances. I think the whole neighbourhood would speak shame and scandal about it...
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
I could never marry a man more than 10 years younger than me but that's me. If someone else is happy with their situation why should what anyone else cares matter? It's between those two people. Heck I had a hard time reconciling the 7 years difference that we have but I got over it in time.
Posted by CheezyPoof (Member # 8386) on :
^^^^I couldn't either. When I'm 42, my oldest boy will be 20. How foolish would I look to him if I was running around with a man his age? Plus, when I'm older I don't want to have to keep up with a young stud. I'm lazy.
But to each his or her own.
Posted by CheezyPoof (Member # 8386) on :
I'm so with you on that. I was just discussing this subject with a gf of mine last week. I wouldn't be accepting of that at all. If, when my sons are older, they brought home sig. older women, I'd feel like she would be "robbing" them of their youth. I'm just really opposed to this sort of thing. I can't help it.
quote:Originally posted by ?????: If my son from 25 comes home to introduce his new 44 yr. old girlfriend, I would have problems with that, and I wouldn't trust her at all. When she would be foreign I would even have more doubts, and suspect her for anything bad. Guess this is about the same. I cannot even imagine my son would do so! And I think it is the same for Egyptian parents, above that they have to deal with a large amount of cultural, social inheritances. I think the whole neighbourhood would speak shame and scandal about it...
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah: Not only that Sashyra8 but the age difference. An Egyptian man might marry a slightly older woman than he if she can bear children and have a family. He still gets the benefit and does it in the right way. On the other side, if an Egyptian man marries an older woman (foreigner) and she cannot have children and it is a serious union, usually he has children from a previous marriage.
There are factors you can ask yourself about the seriousness of the relationship. * Have you met his family?
Yes of course
* Is he introducing you as his wife (and know for sure - do you understand what he is saying when he introduces you?)
he didnt introduce me as his wife before we were married but he did introducs me to all of them and he did talk a lot to his mum about me before we married, of course they know now that we are married and were very happy about it
* Are you still able to bear children? No
* Has he been 100% honest with you in all things from the moment you met? Yes
* Does he flirt with you often and give you romantic words each time you talk to the point of exaggeration? No, he calls me 'love' if thats flirting.
* Does he trash Egyptian women in verbalizing why he wants to marry you? No, only that he wanted to marry for love.
* Is there a large age difference between the two of you? Yes
* Are the religions different? (not always important but mostly it is) No, but if I had not been Muslim already I wouldnt have got a look in with him
* Has he asked you for even the smallest amount of money? Even one EP ? Often asks for bus/ferry change, does that count?
* Does he speak with you in a sexual way on the phone, in person or online, instead of having respect for you and allowing you your dignity? No, I cant handle that, makes me laugh.
* Are there things about his life that seem hidden? No
* Are there times he cannot be located? No
* Is he dependable? Yes, although I have asked him to get matresses for the single beds 4 times now and still waiting
* What are his friends like? Hmmm, some ok, some not so ok, some great.
* How does he treat the women in his family? Not how he speaks of them, how he actually DEALS with them. adores his mum and sisters and does his best to provide anything they ask for
There are several factors, not all fool proof but you can get a general idea.
(Rumi, that answer depends on the man in question from what I have witnessed)
We spoke about children before we married and he is well aware I cant have any. According to him he doesnt want any and has been 'provider' for his brothers and sisters since he was 12. He said the same as someone else here said, that nothing says that he can father a child or that another wife could conceive if he married an Egyptian. He has a close Egyptian friend who has been married some years to his Egyptian wife and they have no children, the man has not taken another wife for children either because he is happy and loves his wife.
Its ok to generalize here, but all people are different. Yes the majority of Egyptian men want children but some are happy with who they marry whether she can have children or not. As long as those that know they can't make it quite clear before they marry the man.
Posted by CheezyPoof (Member # 8386) on :
Ayisha, it is true that not *all* Egyptian men require children. My aunt and uncle in law never were able to have children. He never took another wife. They've been happily married for over 30 yrs now. Instead of worrying about not having children, they've focused on having a close relationship with their nieces and nephews.
Posted by Tigerlily (Member # 3567) on :
Well I know of one Egyptian guy in the US who married an Egyptian woman and brought her over to America. After years of trying to conceive docs determined that she couldn't have kids. The guy divorced her. She was the sister of a very good friend of mine at that time and they wanted some legal advise so she could remain in the US. Things worked out for her, dunno if she's married again.
Posted by elizabethN (Member # 14096) on :
come on people get over yourselfs. I cannot speak for all american men nor can you speak for all egyptian men. Some men just don't really care what their family thinks. They go for their happiness. To live your life for your family is barberic in 2008. I think it's sad, some of your comments about older women with younger men. None of you say anything about these old farts with young women. If it's not 4 you then ok. Don't critizie other people's relationships. This trend has been going on for years now and is not gonna go away. If the two people are happy and love each other then what is wrong? The divorce rate is rising in Egypt and almost as high as the United States right now. So with all those egyptian men marrying their princes Jasmine's and giving them families, guess what! They are still divorcing. Having children in a marriage does not keep the marriage together. My husband has a son, I have 2 daughters. We are happy with what we have and want to spend our time together traveling. We leave it in the hands of god whether we will have a child together or not. Please, don't forget some of you have friends here that are married to younger men. Be sensitive to their feelings. They love their husbands and I am sure it hurts them to read some of these remarks by their so called "friends"s
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
was that the cause of the divorce or did they have other issues? My oldest sister tried to have children with her first husband for over 10 years and the stress of the fertility issue is what ended it for them. Not necessarily the inability to have children but the stress of trying to have children. For example, knowing you have like a 12 hour window to do the deed and one party fails to comply with the request so to speak. You can see how things like that can ruin a marriage.
Posted by doodlebug (Member # 11649) on :
quote:Originally posted by elizabethN: come on people get over yourselfs. I cannot speak for all american men nor can you speak for all egyptian men. Some men just don't really care what their family thinks. They go for their happiness. To live your life for your family is barberic in 2008. I think it's sad, some of your comments about older women with younger men. None of you say anything about these old farts with young women. If it's not 4 you then ok. Don't critizie other people's relationships. This trend has been going on for years now and is not gonna go away. If the two people are happy and love each other then what is wrong? The divorce rate is rising in Egypt and almost as high as the United States right now. So with all those egyptian men marrying their princes Jasmine's and giving them families, guess what! They are still divorcing. Having children in a marriage does not keep the marriage together. My husband has a son, I have 2 daughters. We are happy with what we have and want to spend our time together traveling. We leave it in the hands of god whether we will have a child together or not. Please, don't forget some of you have friends here that are married to younger men. Be sensitive to their feelings. They love their husbands and I am sure it hurts them to read some of these remarks by their so called "friends"s
I apologize up front if I said anything hurtful. I only stated that it's not for me but if it works for others then good for them. I feel the same way about older men with much younger women.
Posted by tina kamal (Member # 13845) on :
i dont disrespect noone for this cant have kids issue!!! it was just a simple question!!!what if???? i was curious as to see what they felt on this issue!!!
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
well said liz.
cheezy, I too have an aunt and uncle that never could have kids. i know in the beginning it bothered them as my mum told me, but they never thought of divorcing, they have been married now over 50 years.
Hubby has told me of many more couples, Egyptians and mixed, who dont have kids and are still happily married and never thought of taking another wife.
I dont get hurt or offended by the comments here as I know my husband, but it is something that must be discussed if anyone is thinking of marrying an Egyptian man that is not already married with children by his Egyptian wife. If he is already married and has children then you should be asking why is he wanting to marry you of course!
Posted by elizabethN (Member # 14096) on :
Divorce in Egypt every six minutes Written by Egypt News Wednesday, 21 November 2007 The Egyptian state-run statistics bureau announced on Tuesday that a couple files for divorce every six minutes in Egypt, with a third of marriages breaking up in the first year According to the ُEgyptian Central Agency for Public Mobilization and Statistics courts across Egypt rule on 240 divorces each day. In most cases men take the initiative to file for divorce since under Muslim sharia law they are allowed to seek unrestricted legal separation from their spouses while women must face long court procedures. In line with sharia, men do not need to go to court to file for divorce and can take up to four wives. Egypt, home to 76 million people, now has 2.5 million divorced women.
Posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah (Member # 13948) on :
Look, it is a generalization, I'm sure every woman here who is married to a much younger man who claims he wants no children is in the tiny percentile. Time will tell for that, for now you cannot know truly. It can happen, yes, but statistically you have to do the math and be sensible. I'm not talking about the women already married but to the women considering marriage. I'm simply trying to help.
Posted by Reality_Meanie (Member # 14540) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah: Look, it is a generalization, I'm sure every woman here who is married to a much younger man who claims he wants no children is in the tiny percentile. Time will tell for that, for now you cannot know truly. It can happen, yes, but statistically you have to do the math and be sensible. I'm not talking about the women already married but to the women considering marriage. I'm simply trying to help.
They don't want to hear it, I am sure their own family members have tried too.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
I agree bastet and hopefully it will help some, whether they think about it or not at least they have been made aware.
I do know some women that have been told by their husbands that they wanted no kids in the beginning and a few years down the line, green card or brit passport in hand, they have changed their minds. These women then have a choice to make regarding divorcing him or agreeing to an Egyptian wife.
What annoys me most in all this is that the Egyptian woman is seen as a baby factory and nothing more.
I know of Egyptian couples that have married the 'usual' way, arranged and agreed on by the families, and the poor woman is stuck at home with kids while he is off 'doing his thing' with God knows who and as long as he brings home the money, however he gets it, then shes considered 'happy'. I also know of other Egyptian couples who have gone through hell and had family fights to marry who they wanted to marry for love, my sister in law being one of those, which caused my husbands father to leave when my husbands younger brother and sister were small babies! Hence my husband had no pressure from family to marry of family choice, he has always been told to marry for love whoever he chose to marry.
It is the same in any part of the world though. A man and woman marry and they dont know if they can have children or not until they try. If pressure is put on this single thing then it can cause the end of the marriage, as can having children also. Having a child does not give you immediate guarantees you will stay together, even in Egypt.
One problem here is that many men still see it as the womans fault if there are no babies, only educated ones will think of the possibility that it could be him. In the same way there are still men here that blame the woman for having all girls instead of boys, which we know that is the mans part and not the womans.
The only way a woman can judge her man is by talking to him, finding out what he thinks about certain things and his level of education...and we all know education does not necessarily mean school as most of our education can come from listening and taking note in life itself.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Think a lot of what's possibly is going to happen, depends on the educational level/social status of the man in question. In every social class in Egypt people prefer their parents should approve their marriage, I don't think this is very different as we know it in Western countries. The life what a futurious wife should going to have can easily be found in the kind of lifes the female relatives of her husband's family are having. Not exactly the same, because she is Western and Egyptians won't expect the same from her as they should expect from a Egyptian woman...but quite the same, social class, living circumstances, having a job or not, etc. Also in higher Egyptian classes I've seen a lot of troubled marriages, lots of divorces, and in average lots of problems. I've seen marriages where parents did not agree, I've seen marriages with agreements of the family. But really happy marriages... not that much."I've seen the attitude Ayisha has described, where the incoming money is used as a kind of sweetener for the sour in that marriage, or just simply the only possibility to offer their kids a high class education, a fancy appartment in a fancy neighbourhood, and from the other side I've seen men became frustrated because they felt like a money-machine and didn't get the intimacy that they needed in a marriage. Only for the children they stay a couple... Just like this happens in our society... This is all about Egyptian couples.
What I've seen in mixed couples is worse. If you'll ask me this is only because the male part of such a couple, almost always is quite a chanceless type. He has no futurious prospects, not a good job, his family is from a low class, so they can't offer him opportunities, and most important of all: he is not satisfied with his futurious prospects. He has no thoughts about personal efforts or investments to work for it, and he seeks the easy way to get money. And also this is not unusual in our society, we all know men living on the edge of what is allowed and what isn't to make lots of money for less work, the swindlers, the drugdealers, the pimps, the ones who do trading in small goods that make big money. It isn't that different! They all have no chance to marry an Egyptian woman, because they don't have the money, they don't have the good mentality, they don't want to work. So, the easiest way is a foreign woman.
In fact I should advice all women with amrriage plans to ask Egyptian families to their opinion about their fiturious husband. The problem is most women don't know them. ( and the men are fully aware of that!)
Of course all men are different, and one family isn't like the other family. Of course Egyptian marriages can also fail, they do, and on large scale! But, they are able to build in their escapes. To make it difficult for the man to swindle and lie, without feeling the consequences. And she has her family behind her...
All women here, with their Egyptian boyfriends, with marriageplans, they all can tell us what is was really like, after years of marriage. Time will tell them if they were right or just na-ive.
We cannot tell them either. It is like jumping into a swimmingpool while you cant swim. He can! Does he resque you? I hope he will, but he has to swim for a long time and he is not a that good swimmer...
A man is a man, in Egypt, in the United States, in Europe, on the North-Pole. World-wide we use certain standards, about what's normal and what isn't and world-wide there are a few exceptions, the black sheep and the loners, who are different as average. I hope yóu all won't get that black sheep. Daring to be different is also a quality...
Posted by happybunny (Member # 14224) on :
Great post ?????
quote: I hope yóu all won't get that black sheep.
Glad i got a white one! Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by ?????:
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv: So out of curiosity what happens when the man marries a woman who is still able to bear children, egyptian woman also, but they are barren or they are struck with endometriosis or some other female ailment that results in an emergency hysterectomy??? Are you saying that these egyptian woman who get married and have these problems will be turned out by the husband?? What happens if the Man turns out to be sterile???
Look how many thousands of couples each year are unable to bear children, not just western culture. What happens then after years of trying they cannot have a baby???
By co-incedence I met such example. It IS a reason for divorce, people would understand. But; isn't this also in the US? In Europe I know similar examples, where a marriage ended in a divorce because one of two insisted in having children. Think we must not forget that we're talking about relationships in common, and not every relationship is in such state that they can bare every problem or developments...
Sure I know it happens in the states, My own brother got divorced because of this. Not because he wanted children, but because she did. My brother NEVER wanted children, he barely likes mine or my sisters, strange kids forget it. She agreed when they got married that they were not going to have children and after 10 yrs when she turned 32, she decided she wanted kids so she figured she could talk my brother into it. She then even tried to trick him, needless to say she is now my ex-sister-in-law. He is now married to a women that has absolutely no maternal instict and looks at kids like they are space aliens. The only person she is not cold with is my brother.They both are very selfish and do not have a lifestyle that would ever have space for a child.
So not everyone does want children,and believe me I tried to talk to my brother about at least having one child, my father was upset because between him and my uncle, my brother is the only son to carry on the "family name". He would not budge though. In a way I admire this because there are too many children in this world with parents that should have never been parents, at least he knew that he could never handle one.
I really want to hear from the egyptian women on the board like BLP, Almaz, and MK. Im really curious as to how they are viewed from their point of view if they have medical issues that prevent them from having a child. Say after 10 yrs of trying you still are not able to reproduce, you dearly love your husband after this time and he dearly loves you. Would an egyptian woman divorce a man she loved if say he was found to be the problem??Would a man really choose to divorce his egyptian wife after loving her so much just because she cannot have children due to a medical emergency?? If she had uteran cancer or some other horrible thing happen that she lost her uterus in order to save her life,is your culture really that shallow and ignorant that the family would encourage divorce if one or the other could not reproduce???If they are truly practicing muslims, would they not see this as ALLAHS will and they must accept??? If children are so important to the egyptian culture then why are there so many orphanages and street children??? Why in a culture that the majority is poverty stricken would they continue to have children they cannot feed or give decent shelter too??
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
Actualy a man is a man is not correct. cultural norms influence people enourmously. If a culture and a religion are heavily in favour of children then you have to take this into account
You do not have to divorce, under Islam, in these circumstances, that is it's beauty IMHO
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
Well, adoption is rather impossible in Egypt. It is because the religious meaning behind a familyname, but I'm not well informed enough to explain that, maybe Misho can do this. There are indeed a lot of streetchildren, but not all are orphans. A lot are just children of anti-social families and their parents don't want to work...
About the couples that want children and are not able to get them... in fact it's just as in our society. If the love is big enough, every problem can be conquered, also this problem. It IS a reason for divorce, nobody would be surprised, but there still are couples that love each other dearly, and are able to work this out together.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I can't have children, other half knew this when we were just friends. Things moved on into a relationship despite this.
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
I think Rumi has a very valid point about all the street children in Cairo, if children are so important, why are so many in the situation they are in, it's heartbreaking knowing they are scaveging to keep alive.
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote: What annoys me most in all this is that the Egyptian woman is seen as a baby factory and nothing more.
Actually Ayisha, not just men see this. Look at the majority of woman and what they posted here. They unconsciously look at the woman who cannot have children or choose not to have children as less of a woman....
Posted by young at heart (Member # 10365) on :
Once again Rumi, you are so right. You are seen as not part of the norm, because of this. I should not be made to feel less of a woman because of my situation. Most of my friends are in the same situation, through choice or because they couldn't have children or as I said in an earlier post, their partners didn't want children and they had to choose. So I don't feel a wanting. Having children is not a god given right even though in this country it is now seen as that.
Posted by ????? (Member # 12336) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote: What annoys me most in all this is that the Egyptian woman is seen as a baby factory and nothing more.
Actually Ayisha, not just men see this. Look at the majority of woman and what they posted here. They unconsciously look at the woman who cannot have children or choose not to have children as less of a woman....
It's not a matter of being less a woman or not... It's about expectations from the average men and the families! And the importance of the families opinion in a marriage...
Posted by Makbeta (Member # 14401) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote: What annoys me most in all this is that the Egyptian woman is seen as a baby factory and nothing more.
Actually Ayisha, not just men see this. Look at the majority of woman and what they posted here. They unconsciously look at the woman who cannot have children or choose not to have children as less of a woman....
I know something about it (not necessarily from this site - from my own experience), though it was just a matter of circumstances in my case.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote: What annoys me most in all this is that the Egyptian woman is seen as a baby factory and nothing more.
Actually Ayisha, not just men see this. Look at the majority of woman and what they posted here. They unconsciously look at the woman who cannot have children or choose not to have children as less of a woman....
it wasn't by the men I was thinking rumi
Its not so much less of a woman, more of a defective one. Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha:
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv:
quote: What annoys me most in all this is that the Egyptian woman is seen as a baby factory and nothing more.
Actually Ayisha, not just men see this. Look at the majority of woman and what they posted here. They unconsciously look at the woman who cannot have children or choose not to have children as less of a woman....
it wasn't by the men I was thinking rumi
Its not so much less of a woman, more of a defective one.
So what about defective men??? I think we should look at this issue also. Im still hoping that I can get an egyptian woman's perspective on this, its very interesting. I already know an egyptian mans perspective on this and the western women who are all so knowing on here have already voiced their opinions. Im only 39 but IMO a woman that can get some young booty in their late forties, early fifties gets a "you go girl high five "from rumi
Who are we to judge,crap I work with a woman in her late 40's who looks like a damn 20 yr old!! Her bf of 5 yrs is a 33 yr old Hot MD who bought her a mercedes ,lol!!Big time jealousy amongst the women, they talk so much crap about her it's not even funny.I always look at them and say " Don't be a hater baby, who's got the hotty and how many of you go home to fat old men who sit their disgusting large asses on the couch watching nascar and swilling beer".. Never mind asking them the last time they had some mind blowing sex They don't like me too much,lol.
Posted by Ayisha (Member # 4713) on :
ROFL Posted by Makbeta (Member # 14401) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rumicrazieluv: So what about defective men??? I think we should look at this issue also. Im still hoping that I can get an egyptian woman's perspective on this, its very interesting. I already know an egyptian mans perspective on this and the western women who are all so knowing on here have already voiced their opinions. Im only 39 but IMO a woman that can get some young booty in their late forties, early fifties gets a "you go girl high five "from rumi
Who are we to judge,crap I work with a woman in her late 40's who looks like a damn 20 yr old!! Her bf of 5 yrs is a 33 yr old Hot MD who bought her a mercedes ,lol!!Big time jealousy amongst the women, they talk so much crap about her it's not even funny.I always look at them and say " Don't be a hater baby, who's got the hotty and how many of you go home to fat old men who sit their disgusting large asses on the couch watching nascar and swilling beer".. Never mind asking them the last time they had some mind blowing sex They don't like me too much,lol.
I completely agree with the 'swilling beer' part. Posted by Almaz. (Member # 14025) on :
hey Rumi, Believe me some don't care for kids as long as there is love, and some would divorce because a spouse can't have kids - under pressure from the family, or because they would prefer to have a child and would even go to the extend of looking for a divorced woman or young widow, that already has a child - as a proof she can have babies - and some would even adopt to keep the marriage going, although adoption does not give the child inheritance rights etc.. and some would make a surrogate deal believe it or not...plenty of options, plenty of different reactions, and yes it is a fact that MOST Egyptian families are anxious for their children to have a baby, and pressure the couple.
As per the young man/ older woman syndrome it also exists in Egypt between Egyptians..was no very common but lately it started to be a new trend with divorced women marrying younger men. Let's remember that it is usually women in their forties with men in their thirties - like a 10 year difference.
The conventional/traditional marriage is still alive but everything else is there too. Trust me.
Posted by Rumicrazieluv (Member # 12053) on :
quote:Originally posted by Almaz.: hey Rumi, Believe me some don't care for kids as long as there is love, and some would divorce because a spouse can't have kids - under pressure from the family, or because they would prefer to have a child and would even go to the extend of looking for a divorced woman or young widow, that already has a child - as a proof she can have babies - and some would even adopt to keep the marriage going, although adoption does not give the child inheritance rights etc.. and some would make a surrogate deal believe it or not...plenty of options, plenty of different reactions, and yes it is a fact that MOST Egyptian families are anxious for their children to have a baby, and pressure the couple.
As per the young man/ older woman syndrome it also exists in Egypt between Egyptians..was no very common but lately it started to be a new trend with divorced women marrying younger men. Let's remember that it is usually women in their forties with men in their thirties - like a 10 year difference.
The conventional/traditional marriage is still alive but everything else is there too. Trust me.
Thank you almaz. Im glad for your input Posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah (Member # 13948) on :
Yes Almaz is correct, it does exist in Egypt and there are usually other factors involved. I agree women are often seen as the baby-making machines and nothing more. It is a sad thing that many view the woman as nothing more but there are many who view the woman much differently. I know of Egyptian couples who were unable to have children who did stay together and the man did not remarry. I know Egyptian couples where the babies never came and they did test both the husband and wife and it was the husband who could not reproduce.
It also depends on the level of education as someone said above, but not always. Many times the pressure from the families is extraordinary and in the end there can be many factors of why divorce happens.
I believe there is no perfect formula when it comes to marriage between Egyptians/foreigners. I do know of an Egyptian man who married an older foreign woman, they never had children and they stayed together and he never remarried (now married 25+ years). But that is the difference. What I said above about time will tell is the definition of success. It is difficult to gauge success when you have only been married a couple of years and you are the older woman, time is the proof in this. On the otherside there is no guarantee in life and we all go with our instincts in life, marriage, career, education, friendships. In the end you have to simply make the best choice, the most informed choice and go into the marriage with your feet firmly planted on the ground. Having the information about what to expect, what to look out for, the differences in culture between the men in your own country and the men here, these are things you can use as tools to aid you but nothing more. No situation is exactly the same as the other but the danger is that is exactly what the men here are hoping you think. Egyptians know this and they know you think differently. A real marriage is based on respect, admiration, responsibility, both people having the same goals for their futures and not on constant romance and sweet words (as I see often the foreign women get swept up in). Seems to me many foreign women here married to Egyptian men are in good situations (so far), so just always keep focused on the responsibility and respect part when it comes to the man, that's all.
As for the women considering marriage to an Egyptian man, yes there are many wonderful and caring Egyptian men out there who would love to marry a foreigner and do right by her and get the benefit of perhaps leaving his country one day. Nothing wrong with that if he is honest in it! However if you are much older than he you should be advised to enter cautiously. It isn't an impossible union as you see some here in relationships with younger men where it works but have it known it is a rareity. Also, by much older, I'm talking about women who are old enough to be the mother to the man. 5-10 years does not fall into this category. If you are in this category, then chances are you can still have chidren and there is no issue.
Posted by Sparkle16 (Member # 13047) on :
I am with you Rumi...if you can get a gorgeous young man who loves you late 40's, early 50's than anything else another woman says will be out of pure jealousy. Also if I had a son who was in his 20's and he brought home an older woman the only thing I would care about was whether or not he was treated well and loved. Nothing else really matters. Same age marriages break down everyday at a rate of between 50 - 60% in North America...maybe a younger man and an older woman is a better match...only time will tell.
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