The web page discusses, among other things, the origin of a pottery design. However, it's likely that pottery was used in the Sudan as far back as 15,000 BC but I cannot find a reference to this. Does anyone have a good, solid article or book about this?
Pottery in Central Nile and in the Sahara-Sahel Belt
"In the Central Nile Valley, there are early dates for wavy line-dotted wavy line ceramics from Saggai (Caneva, 1983b) and Sarurab (Khabir, 1981, pp. 160–161; Mohammed-Ali, 1982, p. 173, fig. 1). From Saggai a suspect date, based on Pila shell, of 10,060 + 150 bp, was obtained from the Mesolithic assemblage (Caneva, 1983b, p. 149). It is, in any case, the earliest date so far obtained for a ceramic-bearing site not only in the Sudan but in the whole of Africa and the Middle East. Four other radiocarbon dates, based on Pila shell, were obtained for the site ranging between 7410 + 100 bp (T-5025) and 7230 + 100 bp (T-5024; Caneva, 1983b, p. 152). Remarkably, the early dates of Saggai are not discordant with those obtained for a wavy-dotted wavy line sequence at Sarurab."
"Sarurab, a site with a Mesolithic assemblage, located on the west bank of the Nile, ca. 25 km north of Khartoum." From the chronological standpoint, it seems that the overall radiometric dates of the early ceramics from the Central Nile Valley are generally in accordance with their counterpart in the Sahara-Sahel Belt, dated to the tenth–eighth millennium bp (eighth–sixth millenium BC)."
"These dates may suggest that pottery developed locally from early prototypes as early as 10,000 bp. The origin(s) of the wavy line and dotted wavy line ceramics is much more complex than was once thought. The reason(s) behind the invention of pottery lies mainly in the need for containers that permit wider uses of food techniques than is otherwise possible, as well as other different sets of advantages for the general mode of living (Arnold, 1985, pp. 127–166). The invention of pottery and harpoons are critical events in the process that led to the expansion of aquatic resource exploitation, as is manifested in the Nile Valley (see supra; Haaland, 1995; Sutton, 1974, pp. 529–531). Also, the Sahara-Sahel Belt might have only opened up for the kind of resource exploitation that necessitates the invention of ceramics by the early Holocene (see Clark, 1980; Hassan, 1986)."
Pottery in Central Nile and in the Sahara-Sahel Belt
"In the Central Nile Valley, there are early dates for wavy line-dotted wavy line ceramics from Saggai (Caneva, 1983b) and Sarurab (Khabir, 1981, pp. 160–161; Mohammed-Ali, 1982, p. 173, fig. 1). From Saggai a suspect date, based on Pila shell, of 10,060 + 150 bp, was obtained from the Mesolithic assemblage (Caneva, 1983b, p. 149). It is, in any case, the earliest date so far obtained for a ceramic-bearing site not only in the Sudan but in the whole of Africa and the Middle East. Four other radiocarbon dates, based on Pila shell, were obtained for the site ranging between 7410 + 100 bp (T-5025) and 7230 + 100 bp (T-5024; Caneva, 1983b, p. 152). Remarkably, the early dates of Saggai are not discordant with those obtained for a wavy-dotted wavy line sequence at Sarurab."
"Sarurab, a site with a Mesolithic assemblage, located on the west bank of the Nile, ca. 25 km north of Khartoum." From the chronological standpoint, it seems that the overall radiometric dates of the early ceramics from the Central Nile Valley are generally in accordance with their counterpart in the Sahara-Sahel Belt, dated to the tenth–eighth millennium bp (eighth–sixth millenium BC)."
"These dates may suggest that pottery developed locally from early prototypes as early as 10,000 bp. The origin(s) of the wavy line and dotted wavy line ceramics is much more complex than was once thought. The reason(s) behind the invention of pottery lies mainly in the need for containers that permit wider uses of food techniques than is otherwise possible, as well as other different sets of advantages for the general mode of living (Arnold, 1985, pp. 127–166). The invention of pottery and harpoons are critical events in the process that led to the expansion of aquatic resource exploitation, as is manifested in the Nile Valley (see supra; Haaland, 1995; Sutton, 1974, pp. 529–531). Also, the Sahara-Sahel Belt might have only opened up for the kind of resource exploitation that necessitates the invention of ceramics by the early Holocene (see Clark, 1980; Hassan, 1986)."
Pottery in Central Nile and in the Sahara-Sahel Belt
"In the Central Nile Valley, there are early dates for wavy line-dotted wavy line ceramics from Saggai (Caneva, 1983b) and Sarurab (Khabir, 1981, pp. 160–161; Mohammed-Ali, 1982, p. 173, fig. 1). From Saggai a suspect date, based on Pila shell, of 10,060 + 150 bp, was obtained from the Mesolithic assemblage (Caneva, 1983b, p. 149). It is, in any case, the earliest date so far obtained for a ceramic-bearing site not only in the Sudan but in the whole of Africa and the Middle East. Four other radiocarbon dates, based on Pila shell, were obtained for the site ranging between 7410 + 100 bp (T-5025) and 7230 + 100 bp (T-5024; Caneva, 1983b, p. 152). Remarkably, the early dates of Saggai are not discordant with those obtained for a wavy-dotted wavy line sequence at Sarurab."
"Sarurab, a site with a Mesolithic assemblage, located on the west bank of the Nile, ca. 25 km north of Khartoum." From the chronological standpoint, it seems that the overall radiometric dates of the early ceramics from the Central Nile Valley are generally in accordance with their counterpart in the Sahara-Sahel Belt, dated to the tenth–eighth millennium bp (eighth–sixth millenium BC)."
"These dates may suggest that pottery developed locally from early prototypes as early as 10,000 bp. The origin(s) of the wavy line and dotted wavy line ceramics is much more complex than was once thought. The reason(s) behind the invention of pottery lies mainly in the need for containers that permit wider uses of food techniques than is otherwise possible, as well as other different sets of advantages for the general mode of living (Arnold, 1985, pp. 127–166). The invention of pottery and harpoons are critical events in the process that led to the expansion of aquatic resource exploitation, as is manifested in the Nile Valley (see supra; Haaland, 1995; Sutton, 1974, pp. 529–531). Also, the Sahara-Sahel Belt might have only opened up for the kind of resource exploitation that necessitates the invention of ceramics by the early Holocene (see Clark, 1980; Hassan, 1986)."
Mr.Winters threw genetics can we establish the oldest people in the World can we show who are the oldest people like for instance the San, Twa or Khoesian can they have the oldest DNA. From all the research i have done it seems that Northeast Africa Sudan Ethiopia Eritrea seems to be the place were everyone is connecting humans origins.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Pottery in Africa, particularly the Nile Valley is much older than any yet found in the Middle-East.
But as is the case with topics started by March Washington, we have no evidence making a direct link between Africans and the Ubaidian predecessors of Sumerians.
Nor do Siberians (as again shown in his picture spamm) have any relation with African Bushman! LOL Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hikuptah: Mr.Winters threw genetics can we establish the oldest people in the World can we show who are the oldest people like for instance the San, Twa or Khoesian can they have the oldest DNA. From all the research i have done it seems that Northeast Africa Sudan Ethiopia Eritrea seems to be the place were everyone is connecting humans origins.
Mr. Winters expertise is not genetics but pseudo-linguistics, I mean linguistics.
If you have questions about genetics ask Rasol or Supercar.
Myra. Many thanks for that insightful information about an important but obscure part of our wonderful history dealing with an early horizon for wavy line and dotted wavy line pottery.
Hello Mike. You are bringing up some interesting history as it is a fact that in Northern Europe pottery existed near 14,000 BC.
Countless archeologists speak of the fact that the pottery of the Jomon resembles that found in Northern Europe.
And the boating / fishing culture of the Jomon was similar to that of Northern Europe. In Siberia is the Amuq River Valley and it is nearly certain that the Jomon arose from there.
In picture 5 and 15 is respectively seen a Japanese and Northern European from Siberia. Note the similarity. They both have African features.
I'm particularly glad for your post as while I rose the question of Saharan pottery near 14,000 BC, what was deeper in my mind is that both Africa and North Europe appear to have pottery at the same time.
I will soon put up a post of a map showing a likely boating route from Africa to Northern Europe. I am wondering if the similarity in pottery is due to people from one place or the other boating to the opposite place with the pottery tradition.
Anyhow, I am still hoping someone can produce an good article of African pottery near 14,000 BC.
Here is something you may find interesting: the similarity between fishcombed pottery of the Jomon and prehistoric Africa:
Marc
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
Dr. Winters. That was some of the best research I have seen on the African nature of ancient China.
This quality research should be taught at Harvard, Oxford, and the likes.
I have added it to my library.
Many thanks,
Marc
Posted by Lord of the Nile (Member # 10305) on :
Marc: Which of Dr. Winters research are you talking about?
Cheers
Posted by Marc Washington (Member # 10979) on :
[Lord of the Nile writes]
Marc: Which of Dr. Winters research are you talking about?
Cheers
[Marc replies]
I am referring to the two sets of comments above here in this thread. They are succinct, quality-documented, and cutting edge.
Take care,
Marc
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
Marc, care to share with us actual evidence of African roots in Japan (besides Japanese masks showing broad noses)?? Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: [Lord of the Nile writes]
Marc: Which of Dr. Winters research are you talking about?
Cheers
[Marc replies]
I am referring to the two sets of comments above here in this thread. They are succinct, quality-documented, and cutting edge.
Take care,
Marc
Yet evidently they aren't at all clear or specific.
Take care.
Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Marc, care to share with us actual evidence of African roots in Japan (besides Japanese masks showing broad noses)??
What, you're saying that's not cutting edge stuff?
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