quote:I can't break this down to you like Supercar and Rasol. I am sure they will answer your question soon.
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I need help. I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die. Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
quote:Where at Northwards? If it Originated in "Mesopotamia" or "Anatolia" why did they say I'm "European" and the T gene is found in Europe?
Originally posted by Myra Wysinger:
Haplogroup T is believed to have originated in Mesopotamia or Anatolia approximately 10,000 years before present, and to have moved northwards.
Maybe someone can add more information.
.
quote:
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Oh, I know what you mean. That is why I said "plain and simple" because it should be but it's not. I don't know what is causing the confusion.
Originally posted by Supercar:
quote:Apparently, it isn't that "plain and simple", as this thread attests to. There are people in Africa who call themselves "Arabs". Now you may question that, but that would be immaterial to these folks.
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
Arabs are people from Saudia Arabia or the Arabian Peninsula. Plain and simple
quote:
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Where at Northwards? If it Originated in "Mesopotamia" or "Anatolia" why did they say I'm "European" and the T gene is found in Europe?
Originally posted by Myra Wysinger:
Haplogroup T is believed to have originated in Mesopotamia or Anatolia approximately 10,000 years before present, and to have moved northwards.
Maybe someone can add more information.
.
quote:Change of heart sista? Besides T Did they also find any arab lineages
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
The original people of modern day "Saudi Arabia" and the Arabian peninsula were no one other than black people.
quote:I guess that's why you don't date African men, I guess you prefer the Turks...
Where at Northwards? If it Originated in "Mesopotamia" or "Anatolia" why did they say I'm "European" and the T gene is found in Europe?
quote:Haplogroup T: The clan of "Tara" (Gaelic for rocky hill) includes slightly fewer than 10% of modern Europeans. Its many branches are widely distributed throughout southern and western Europe with particularly high concentrations in Ireland and the west of Britain. Tara herself lived 17,000 years ago in the northwest of Italy among the hills of Tuscany and along the estuary of the river Arno.
Originally posted by Myra Wysinger:
Haplogroup T is believed to have originated in Mesopotamia or Anatolia approximately 10,000 years before present, and to have moved northwards.
quote:
Haplogroup T has a very wide distribution, and is present as far east as the Indus Valley bordering India and Pakistan and as far south as the Arabian Peninsula. It is also common in eastern and northern Europe. Although the haplogroup was present during the early and middle Upper Paleolithic, T is largely considered one of the main genetic signatures of the Neolithic expansions.
While groups of hunter-gatherers and subsistence fishermen had been occupying much of Eurasia for tens of thousands of years, around ten thousand years ago a group of modern humans living in the Fertile Crescent—present-day eastern Turkey and northern Syria—began domesticating the plants, nuts, and seeds they had been collecting. What resulted were the world's first agriculturalists, and this new cultural era is typically referred to as the Neolithic.
Groups of individuals able to support larger populations with this reliable food source began migrating out of the Middle East, bringing their new technology with them. By then, humans had already settled much of the surrounding areas, but this new agricultural technology proved too successful to ignore, and the surrounding groups quickly copied these new immigrants.
Interestingly, DNA data indicate that while these new agriculturalists were incredibly successful at planting their technology in the surrounding groups, they were far less successful at planting their own genetic seed. Agriculture was quickly and widely adopted, but the lineages carried by these Neolithic expansions are found today at frequencies seldom greater than 20 percent in Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia.
Spencer Wells
The Genographic Project: Atlas of the Human Journey
code:HAPLOGROUP
OR SUBCLUSTER HVS-I SEQUENCE TYPE
T 16126 -16189 -16294-(16296)
T 16126 -16189 -16294-(16296)-16298
T 16126 -16192 -16294-(16296)
T 16126 -16291 -16294-(16296)
T 16126 -16294-(16296)
T 16126 -16294-(16296) -16311
T 16126 -16294-(16296) -16362
T1 16126 -16163-16186-16189 -16294
T2 16093-16126 -16294-(16296) -16304
T2 16126 -16294-(16296) -16304
T3 16126-16146 -16292-16294-(16296)
T3 16126 -16189 -16292-16294-(16296)
T3 16126 -16292-16294-(16296)
T4 16126 -16294-(16296) -16324
T5 16126 -16153 -16294-(16296)
code:FOUNDER STATUS, FOR CRITERION
----------------------------- HAPLOGROUP
f0 f1 f2 fs fs0 OR SUBCLUSTER
x x T
x T
x T
x x x x x T
x x x x x T
x x x T
x x x x T
x x x x x T1
x T2
x x x x x T2
x x x x x T3
x x x x T3
x x T3
x x x x T4
x x x x x T5
quote:
Subjects and Methods
...
Founder Analysis
. . . .
We identified “candidate” founders by searching for
- identical sequence types in the Near East and Europe,
and- inferred matches within the Near Eastern and European
phylogeny, which are either- unsampled types with both European and Near
Eastern derivatives, or- sequence types sampled only in the Near East and
whose immediate derivatives include at least one
European, or- sequence types sampled only in Europe and whose
immediate derivatives include at least one Near
Eastern individual.
We then developed criteria for screening out recurrent
mutation and back-migration. These criteria were designed
to identify types that had most likely evolved in the Near
East and to exclude those which had migrated there during
the more recent past; the presence of derived types in the
Near East was used to distinguish the former.
We applied three levels of stringency to identify founder
candidates, and we also performed analyses on the
candidate list itself (f0). Two of the levels, f1 and f2,
were threshold levels, designed particularly to minimize
the effects of recurrent mutation. Especially in the case
of a shared frequent type, a parallel mutation in both
regions, usually at a fast position, is likely to be
reconstructed as a single event, so that the mtDNAs
bearing the derived state seem to be more closely
related than they are. A sequence match (either
sampled or inferred) between populations—and,
hence, a false founder candidate—can result.
The threshold criteria aimed to reduce the impact of this
effect, by requiring that matches should not be at the tips
of the Near Eastern phylogeny: they are required to have
either one (f1) or two (f2) branches deriving from them in
the Near East. Furthermore, the derived types must connect
to the founder candidate via Near Eastern (or shared)
sequence types and not via sequence types found only
in Europe. These criteria also provide a screen against
recent back-migration into the Near East, since recently
back-migrated types should also lack derivatives in the
Near Eastern population.
A weakness of this approach for detection of backmigration
is that it is dependent on the frequency of the founder
cluster candidates in Europe. Clearly, for rarer types, the
chance that back-migration or recurrent mutation will be
detected is lower—and, for common types, it is higher—so
that the criteria might be both too stringent for rare clusters
and too weak for common clusters. We therefore introduced
an alternative to f2, referred to as “fs,” in which the frequency
of the cluster deriving from each candidate founder in Europe
was used to scale the number of derivatives required in the
Near East in order for the candidate to be counted as a founder
type. To this end, we rescaled the (absolute) frequency of
founder candidate clusters in Europe by taking logarithms
to the base 10, rounding to the nearest integer, and then
adding 1, allowing the outcome to be 1–4. This outcome
was then used to designate the number of derivatives
required in order for the candidate to qualify as a founder.
In addition, to investigate the effect of sample size and
differential back-migration into the more peripheral Near
Eastern populations, we reapplied the fs criterion, excluding
these populations (a procedure referred to as the “fs0” analysis).
. . . .
Founder Analysis
...
Partition analyses.
There are two major
founders associated with the Neolithic (the root types
of J and T1), several with the LUP (the root types of T,
T2, and K and the H-16304 type), and several with
somewhat earlier dates through the LUP and MUP (the
root types of H, U4, I, and HV); and the root type of
U is associated with the EUP. Note that, although, in
the partition analysis, the H-CRS founder would be
firmly associated with the LUP, it is in fact somewhat
older than the Bølling rewarming, suggesting an earlier
MUP immigration as well. It is also worth noting that,
although several 95% CRs overlap the Mesolithic, only
one of the 50% CRs does. The figure therefore provides
some provisional support for the age classes in the basic
model—but rather little support for the extended model
with a Mesolithic migration.
...
It is possible to summarize the most likely contributing
founders to each migration (see fig. 1). In the fs analyses,
the principal Neolithic founder clusters were members
of haplogroup J (in particular, the clusters based on the
root sequence types of J and of J1a), T1, U3, and a few
subclusters of H and W. The main contributors to the
LUP expansions were the major subclusters of haplogroup
H (including those derived from the H-CRS,
16304, and 16362-16482), K, T*, T2, W, and X. The
main components of the MUP were HV*, U1, possibly
U2, and U4, and the main component of the EUP was
U. In the extended analysis, the Mesolithic component
arose mainly from the reallocation of parts of haplogroup
T.
. . . .
Distribution of European Colonization Times
We first performed a naive founder analysis, using all
founder candidates (f0). Although this analysis makes
no allowance whatsoever for back-migration, the result
from the partition analysis is interesting for what it does
not show. Even this analysis attributes only 49% of maternal
lineages to the Neolithic expansion, contradicting
extreme Neolithic demic-diffusion–replacement views
such as those of Chikhi et al. (1998a). Even when we
allow for multiple dispersals of the H-CRS, by repartitioning
this cluster within Europe, the analysis yields a
Neolithic component of only slightly >50% (data not
shown).
The Neolithic components in the f1, f2, and fs analyses
were 22%, 12%, and 13%, respectively; the fsr value
reaches 23% when possible multiple migrations of the
H-CRS are allowed. This robustness to differing criteria
for the exclusion of back-migration and recurrent mutation
suggests that the Neolithic contribution to the
extant mtDNA pool is probably on the order of 10%–
20% overall. Our regional analyses support this, with
values of »20% for southeastern, central, northwestern,
and northeastern Europe. The principal clusters involved
seem to have been most of J, T1, and U3, with a possible
H component. This would suggest that the early-Neolithic
LBK expansions through central Europe did indeed
include a substantial demic component, as has been proposed
both by archaeologists and by geneticists (Ammerman
and Cavalli-Sforza 1984; Sokal et al. 1991).
Incoming lineages, at least on the maternal side, were
nevertheless in the minority, in comparison with indigenous
Mesolithic lineages whose bearers adopted the
new way of life. This does not exclude the possibility
that acculturation occurred principally in southeastern
Europe and that there was considerable replacement
in central Europe. The Mesolithic component is even
higher along the Mediterranean coastline, where archaeologists
have suggested Neolithic pioneer colonization
of uninhabited coastal areas by boat and a developing
patchwork of coexisting Mesolithic and
Neolithic communities for several millennia (Zilha˜o
1993, 1998). The Neolithic component here is »10%.
It is similar in Scandinavia, where, again, the development
of the Neolithic was very late and the impact of
newcomers likely was slight. It is lowest of all, as might
be expected, in the Basque Country (7%), although the
presence of a number of rare European types at elevated
frequency in the Basques points to the action of genetic
drift in the region, as well as to a lack of Neolithic
settlement. It is worth noting that the consistency between
these results and the evidence of archaeology provides
additional support for the founder methodology.
Our analyses provide little support for Mesolithic dispersals
into Europe after the Younger Dryas glacial interlude,
suggesting that, if they occurred at all, they
probably were limited to »10% of the total.
The new analyses confirm that the greatest impact on
the modern mtDNA pool was migration during the LUP.
The regional analyses lend some support to the suggestion
that much of western and central Europe was repopulated
largely from the southwest when the climate
improved, as has been suggested, on both archaeological
(Housley et al. 1997) and genetic (Torroni et al. 1998)
grounds, by previous studies. The LUP component is
highest in western and central Europe and is slightly
lower to the north and east. However, allowing for multiple
dispersals modifies the picture somewhat. The LUP
component is on the order of 45%–60% of extant lineages
in the fs analysis but falls to »36% if the H-CRS
is repartitioned to allow for possible multiple expansions.
The lineages involved include much of the most
common haplogroup, H, as well as much of K, T, W,
and X.
...
It seems plausible,
then, that many founders of haplogroup H—and,
possibly, founders from other haplogroups dating to the
LUP, such as much of K, T, W, and X—may have
- arrived prior to the LGM,
- suffered reductions in
diversity, as a result of population contractions at the
onset of the LGM, and- subsequently reexpanded.
quote:Probably never.
Originally posted by Arwa:
Dr. Clyde Winters,
When will you take a DNA test?
quote:
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I need help. I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die. Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
code:To see how DNA conclusions can breed false historic
YEAR GENERATION
1950 Ego/Ega O
|
1920 1 m = f
| |
1890 2 m = Y X = f
| | | |
1860 3 m = Y X = Y X = Y X = f
| | | | | | | |
1830 4 m = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = f
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
1800 5 M=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=F
quote:Don't be silly. Asia is "Asia" and Europe is "Europe". They share the same land mass but they are different continents.
Originally posted by SupremeLove:
I always thinnk Europe and Asia are actually on the same continent and the idea of them being classed different has more to do with politics than reality.
quote:Phenotype always plays the factor. I don't have no relatives from Eastern Europe.
Originally posted by yazid904:
Bettyboo,
Any relatives from Easter Europe/Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, etc) but I just saw a reference to Jesse James (the bank robber and he was English)supposedly carrying the T haplotype!
Remember when people react to you, they do so based on your phenotype not what your DNA states!
quote:Turks, YUCK! I'm not into gay men.
Originally posted by Africa:
quote:I guess that's why you don't date African men, I guess you prefer the Turks...
Where at Northwards? If it Originated in "Mesopotamia" or "Anatolia" why did they say I'm "European" and the T gene is found in Europe?
plan2replan Copyright © 2007 Africa
quote:I don't know what is this "Antolian" thing is. However, T haplogroup is not in Western Asians. It is soley found in Europe. Actually, I have European ancestors that date back 4 generations that is recent and not from 10,000 years ago. That could explain my "T" haplogroup.
Originally posted by Yom:
Relax, it just shows that your direct maternal ancestor from 10,000 years ago was Anatolian or some other West Asian. It doesn't mean that you are West Asian (or European). Autosomal DNA tests may be more helpful in that, but it doesn't at all mean you're white. Are Greeks with E3b black? There are even some Frenchmen, Englishmen, and Scandinavians with E3b, but it doesn't at all make them black.
quote:There is no such thing as a Christian name. I understand what you are saying though. I think all humans match each other one way or another.
Originally posted by lamin:
There is the recent case of a--as the reports put it--of " blond, blue-eyed, Ayran-looking German" whose Y chromosome put him on the Swahili areas of East Africa.
Of course, we should all realise that the genomes of all living humans are but minor variations on original African genomes.
In much the same way that the name of, say Fatimah, has transmuted over time with small letter changes over time to yield the following: Fatoumata, Fatma, Fahma, Fatmata, Fatimatou, etc. The same with the Christian name Peter--from Petrum(Latin for "rock")--mutating into Pierre, Pedro, Peter, Pieter, etc.
quote:I believe Europe is more of a peninsula than a continent...
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Don't be silly. Asia is "Asia" and Europe is "Europe". They share the same land mass but they are different continents.
Originally posted by SupremeLove:
I always thinnk Europe and Asia are actually on the same continent and the idea of them being classed different has more to do with politics than reality.
quote:This is what was explained to me. I was told that the Mitochrondial DNA goes unchanged from Mother to daughter.
Originally posted by Supercar:
Simply put:
A male person will receive his father's line of ancestry almost intact, unless until of course, a UEP occurred somewhere down the road. Even then, the father's ancestral line genetic data isn't lost. What would not be revealed about any other Y lineage, is that from the mother's side. This is where the mother's mitochondrial lineage reigns in. The mitochondrial lineage is generally received only from the mother. Here too, one can trace the person's maternal line almost intact.
Any potential additional info about the said male's recent ancestry composition, like that of the person's grandfather from the mother's side and the person's grandmother from the father's side [whose Y chromosome marker and mtDNA marker are lost respectively] via immediate paternal and maternal ancestry, might be acheived via autosomal analysis.
Both a male and female receive mtDNA only from the maternal parent. And since, females don't normally carry Y chromosomes, they don’t receive it from their father. So the father’s line of ancestry via Y chromsome is lost in a female offspring, but autosomal analysis will quite likely make up for that loss in another way. Autosomal test can only take one as far as the much more recent lines of ancestry, and thereafter, generally looses its usefulness as 'biohistoric' marker; this vacuum is filled in by the Y chromosome and mtDNA markers.
quote:Peninsulas can lie on continents.
Originally posted by Nay-Sayer:
quote:I believe Europe is more of a peninsula than a continent...
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Don't be silly. Asia is "Asia" and Europe is "Europe". They share the same land mass but they are different continents.
Originally posted by SupremeLove:
I always thinnk Europe and Asia are actually on the same continent and the idea of them being classed different has more to do with politics than reality.
quote:Nope. Why? I'm quite sure of my ancestry.
Originally posted by vidadavida:
Clyde why aren't you going to take a DNA test?
Supercar, Rasol are you two going to take DNA tests?
quote:
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
quote:What your real motive here Betty?
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
Thank you so much alTakruri. I don't understand everything but thanks for explaining. I don't believe in these DNA tests. I think they are out to take your money. I saw a documentary where a Swedish guy match perfectly with a Gambian.
quote:Why am I silly? Don't take it personal black woman . I was just making an observation.
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:Don't be silly. Asia is "Asia" and Europe is "Europe". They share the same land mass but they are different continents.
Originally posted by SupremeLove:
I always thinnk Europe and Asia are actually on the same continent and the idea of them being classed different has more to do with politics than reality.
quote:Why?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Arwa:
Dr. Clyde Winters,
When will you take a DNA test?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably never
quote:I really don't think it would add anything to my knowledge about myself.
Originally posted by Africa:
quote:Why?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Arwa:
Dr. Clyde Winters,
When will you take a DNA test?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably never
quote:Yes Britain is part of Europe. What is your point?
Originally posted by caterpillar:
Bettyboo
Member
Member # 12987
Rate Member posted 07 March, 2007 06:28
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=002243;p=1
How dare you insult the great American race! I rather shoot a foreigner any day than an American and I don't care if you are black. America is the best country in the world and we are better. There is a reason people sneak into my country, and marry my fellow neighbors for citizenship, and seek asylum from the war torn country. Everyone loves America that is why foreigner never make an attempt to go back to their barren country. I proud of my American accent. Our English is American not British. Let the British keep their English and we keep ours. I'm proud to say "I speak American" rather than "English". I'm sorry, but Americans are not fat. You know you love our country with all the privileges such as clear air, spaciousness, hot water and a bar of soap something you immigrants didn't do when you lived in your own country. By the way, you can have the British those has to be the most ugliest people on the planet.
quote:I don't have no motive I'm a Real Proud Black African Queen.
Originally posted by SupremeLove:
quote:
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?quote:What your real motive here Betty?
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
Thank you so much alTakruri. I don't understand everything but thanks for explaining. I don't believe in these DNA tests. I think they are out to take your money. I saw a documentary where a Swedish guy match perfectly with a Gambian.
What are you really trying to discredit?
quote:Betty are you female? Cuz I can take your statement a couple of ways (2 anyways! )
What your real motive here Betty?
What are you really trying to discredit?
I don't have no motive I'm a Real Proud Black African Queen.
quote:Didn't I say I'm a Real Proud Black African Queen.
Originally posted by Nonni:
quote:Betty are you female? Cuz I can take your statement a couple of ways (2 anyways! )
What your real motive here Betty?
What are you really trying to discredit?
I don't have no motive I'm a Real Proud Black African Queen.
quote:I agree, vidadavida, how would you as an African American slave descendant be sure about your ancestry, much less act like you know [and sure about the ancestry of] people who you are communicating with behind your computer screen, where you know you are quite safe from physical harm?
Originally posted by vidadavida:
^^^Um..how is ANY African American slave descendant SURE about their ancestory, that made no sense could you clarify?
quote:Based on former posts, i bet you're quite happy, and created this thread simply to brag of your dear european ancestry...
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I need help. I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die. Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
quote:^^^This is the strangest response I have ever seen and I don't understand it so I will ask again.
I agree, vidadavida, how would you as an African American slave descendant be sure about your ancestry, much less act like you know [and sure about the ancestry of] people who you are communicating with behind your computer screen, where you know you are quite safe from physical harm?
quote:The strangest question cannot be answered by a normal coherent answer. If you ask it again, I'll give you the same 'strange' answer, as it fits the question.
Originally posted by vidadavida:
quote:^^^This is the strangest response I have ever seen and I don't understand it so I will ask again.
I agree, vidadavida, how would you as an African American slave descendant be sure about your ancestry, much less act like you know [and sure about the ancestry of] people who you are communicating with behind your computer screen, where you know you are quite safe from physical harm?
quote:Why do you study genetics of Egyptians, North Africans, and all other Africans (people who have nothing to do with you) to the tee all day and not care about your own?
WHY SUPERCAR DO YOU STUDY GENETICS OF EGYPTIANS AND NORTH AFRICANS(PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU) TO THE TEE ALL DAY AND NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR OWN!!!!!!!!!![
quote:...and I cannot tell you how much my corresponding answer sincerely matches your question.
I can not tell you how SINCERE this question is!!!
quote:You bet it is not just that; it is trolling of the purest form.
This is not a joke or rant or tease;
quote:And I beg you to carefully consider the answer to this question: why do you not care about your genes and origins?
I beg of you Supercar to please address this seriously because I am being DEAD SERIOUS.
WHY DO YOU NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR GENES AND YOUR ORIGINS!!!!!?!?!?!?
quote:No problem. I'll speak to you in a language that you best understand. I won't disappoint you.
Please respond maturely Supercar, I would really appreciate it.
quote:For the same reason, that you could care less about your origins or ancestry nor why you feel it isn't important. There's your answer.
If I have to call you sir or something so that you KNOW that I am being serious and sincere about this question; then I WILL.
Please SIR; will you answer this question for me because I do not understand why African Americans could care less about their origins or ancestory nor WHY they feel it isn't important.
quote:Shut tha hel! up Africa!
Originally posted by Africa:
quote:I guess that's why you don't date African men, I guess you prefer the Turks...
Where at Northwards? If it Originated in "Mesopotamia" or "Anatolia" why did they say I'm "European" and the T gene is found in Europe?
plan2replan Copyright © 2007 Africa
quote:We care about our origins/ kin-folk.
Originally posted by vidadavida:
Please SIR; will you answer this question for me because I do not understand why African Americans could care less about their origins or ancestory nor WHY they feel it isn't important.
quote:^Indeed, as Supercar is not African-American (to my knowledge)
Originally posted by Supercar:
Strange questions diserve strange answers
quote:'What are you talking about child'? You don't know your own origins. Why are you being such a retard?
Originally posted by vida-da-clueless child:
^^^What are you talking about child I do know my origins?? Why are you being silly?
quote:Never, because she is one heck of a retarded sick puppy, despite numerous volunteers showing her time and again how to do a simple thing as 'posting' a comment, and despite being a re-occurring banned troll for a year. If you want to know whatever her post is, read the one that is retarded in content. One has got to be quite retarded not to be able to do a simple thing as post a comment as this punk exemplifies, and even worse, when people have to show one how to do so countless times, and still not get it.
Originally posted by alTakruri:
When are you going to learn how to post like
everybody else so we can tell what's a quote
from who, and what's the new material from
you?
quote:Don't insult me if I insult you then I'm the one in the wrong.
Originally posted by Tee85:
Precisely
You just may be a "queen"
quote:I have yet bragged about my European ancestry. If I did, is it bad? Don't blacks brag about their African ancestry?
Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf:
quote:Based on former posts, i bet you're quite happy, and created this thread simply to brag of your dear european ancestry...
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I need help. I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die. Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
Then again, Nur is just a bitter cynic, who's all too blind of human intentions.
quote:Coming from the one^ who was acting like it was an abomination in the first place.
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I have yet bragged about my European ancestry. If I did, is it bad? Don't blacks brag about their African ancestry?
quote:Coming from the one^ who was acting like it was an abomination in the first place.
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I have yet bragged about my European ancestry. If I did, is it bad? Don't blacks brag about their African ancestry?
quote:I hope you are not gay.
Originally posted by m-massage:
betty boo i can be urs just 4 tips , i am egyptian, i will clean the house 2 and massage from head to toes
quote:I already know this.
Originally posted by yazid904:
Bettyboo,
That is why phenotype does not always equal haplotype. People looking the same (Aborigenes in Australia, Melanesians, Negritos of Phillipines, etc have varying degrees of haplotypes and groups.
quote:It's not "bad", but inappropriate in a forum that renders it irrelevent. I don't even know if you're what you say you are, judging by some of your posts. Ironically this thread revealed what you really are, just in the form of a DNA test...white.
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
quote:I have yet bragged about my European ancestry. If I did, is it bad? Don't blacks brag about their African ancestry?
Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf:
quote:Based on former posts, i bet you're quite happy, and created this thread simply to brag of your dear european ancestry...
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I need help. I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die. Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
Then again, Nur is just a bitter cynic, who's all too blind of human intentions.
quote:ROTFLH
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
...I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die...
quote:Broken logic and bad analogy, considering that not only because Egyptians posses Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial lineages as well as autosomal lineages (all other genes) that are African, but also because we *know* how modern and ancient Egyptians looked like we have their portraits and their descendants (some free of admixture) still exist today.
Originally posted by vidadavida:
^^^^So then Egyptians might not be black just becuase of African genes due to the fact babyboo is black and has white genes?!?!?
quote:Or maybe you just don't understand it. Feel free to do some personal research of your own or just ask some people who know like Rasol, Supe, or Takruri.
*scratching head* Maybe DNA is a bunch of hogwash crap that is being to emphasized on this board
quote:No! NOT Clyde. Not only is he *not* an expert on this, but he really isn't an expert in his own field of linguistics and culture as he claims
..CLYDE?!?! Maybe you are on to something....
quote:What the hell is your stance? One minute you insult blacks like there's no tomorrow, the next you speak of pan africanism and being an african queen...
^I have not bragged about any European Ancestry so at least the "inappropriate" part is not directed towards me.
quote:So you really aren't a black african queen as you say, but a mixed black african queen?
I am of mixed heritage
quote:Which brings me back to my former post, regarding the fact that this forum deals with ancient egyptology, not why person A and person B had mulatto kids, leaving the race of person A manless...
and I will call out any racism or hatred even self-hatred as I see fit and I don't care what forum it is.
quote:My point is that topics/posts should have some relevance, let alone decency to its respective forum. I'm not talking about the argueable assertion that all topics should be controversial, since that of course would be digressing.
All topics should be controversial, so I don't see how you or anyone can argue with that.
quote:^me too, just a little less sure on betty. Some of us do criticize ourselves like that. Still think she's white, but what does it matter; either way she's still off.
Originally posted by neokem:
I'm pretty sure that vida character and bettyboo are white males playing games.
quote:I believe Bettyboo is a GAY WHITE MALE who wishes to be (and fantasises about being) a STRAIGHT BLACK FEMALE .
Originally posted by nur23_you55ouf:
Since that has been established, i'm now going to assume that you're a white female who causes ruckus, and brings up controversial topics for the sake of tainting the forum's reputation.
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
A DNA test can't make you white. DNA tests only
show the mother's mother's mother (on down the
line in the case of mtDNA) or father's father's
father (on down the line for the NRY chromosome).
Somewhere or other there's a chart that shows
these tests leave out the vast bulk of an
individual's ancestry. Population genetics is
accurate for vast or regional populations when
sampled in sizes of 50 contributors or more.
However, it tells an individual only a tiny part
of their overall heritage.
quote:
Originally posted by Bettyboo:
I need help. I took my DNA test and the results show that I am white. I couldn't believe it. I cried and cried. I don't understand anything on the test. It reads that I am of European descent and my Haplogroup is T1. I don't understand the sequence they sent me and it didn't show any "T" anything. I feel so bad that I wanted to drink. I'm still depress after this horrible conclusion. I talked to my boyfriend and told him I wanted to die. Do anyone believe in these DNA tests. I am no longer a believer. I think they are just out to get your money. Clyde Winters please help me. What the heck is a T1 Haplogroup. What country is that found?
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
] OK, let's put this genetic testing and genetic "racial"
conclusions in their proper perspective because their
significance can be overblown way out of proportion
on the individual level.
Now this example, as unlikely as it is, will show just how
misleading a purely mtDNA and Y chromosome approach
unaided by autosomal DNA, historical, linguistic, cultural
and phenotypical physical anthropology can be.
[The following applies to the gene tree below
and before anyone calls me on it and the
analysis I'm making, yes, I know I've simplified]
Let's take a 54 year old subject today and go back
five generations to that persons great-great-great-
grandparents of 200 years ago in the days of slavery.
The O represents the subject.
The M is the woman five generations ago that
mtDNA genetic tests reveal as the ancestress (of course
the ancestress of the genetic test will go back much further
than I can show for purposes of reasonable illustration).
Let's say she's of the First Nations of the Americas
The F is the ancestral man as explained above
except the genetic tests are done on the Y chromosome.
Let's say he's of some north west European nationality.
The mtDNA and Y chromosome tests only show the
matrilineal ancestry through the m 's and the
patrilineal ancestry through the f 's.
All other ancestry (all those X 's and Y 's) is missed!
Now five generations ago in 1800, barring incest or cousin
matings, the subject has 32 ancestors. Let's say 30 of them
were all from some Mande ethnic group or other. They're all
those X 's and Y 's. These DNA tests are going to miss them
altogether although they contribute the overwhelming bulk
of the make up of the subject. Literally, they make him (or
her) what he (or she) is.
Why should the one out of 32 First Nation ancestress and the one
out of 32 north west European ancestor disturb the psychic equilibrium
of the subject with 30 Mande ancestral parents who's been told
he/she is, out of all the Mande, a Mandinka by his/her parents?
Why wouldn't a responsible tester or company tell their client
about this kind of test limitation?
Damn the DNA, this sucker is a Mande! One monkey don't stop no show!code:To see how DNA conclusions can breed false historic
YEAR GENERATION
1950 Ego/Ega O
|
1920 1 m = f
| |
1890 2 m = Y X = f
| | | |
1860 3 m = Y X = Y X = Y X = f
| | | | | | | |
1830 4 m = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = Y X = f
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
1800 5 M=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=Y X=F
notions imagine the person of my chart to be an Afrikan
whose partial remains were found in an earthen mound
denoting rulership status dating to 17th century Equatorial
Guinea.
We know that two centuries earlier the Portuguese were
dumping undesirables they dubbed lançados all along
the Atlantic African coast. In this case M is a Portuguese
Jewess, Y is an Iberian Portuguese, and all the rest are
Ndowe.
Well, well, well. The only skeletal remain in the mound
was a small bone fragment, not enough for physical
anthropology to tell us anything. But now a DNA test
from the bone fragment allows some Eurocentrist to
confidently state that the Ndowe had a white ruling
caste.
Beware of unsupplemented DNA conclusions.
On the otherhand, DNA sampling like this can backup a
peoples' own claims as to origins when their phenotype
would otherwise cause many to deny it. Case in point
the Lemba of Zimbabwe/Botswana/South Africa who claim
Hebrew origins. They have a higher percentage of the
Cohen modal haplotype than Ashkenazi Jews. But instead
of recognizing the Lemba's centuries old claim, the positors
of the white Jewish race myth now doubt that CMH gene to be an
accurate genetic marker. No science is devoid of sociological
abuse.
Genetic origin, based on NRY chromosome and mtDNA, may
or may not be related to the phenotype on an individual's
level. The classic physical traits (the only ones that count
in the day-to-day world) so far escape genetic identification. DNA
can show continental and then regional origins from which
a range of phenotypes can be assumed. There's more surety
when a large number of contributors comprise the sampling of
a population but some populations' genetic data is based on
as little as under 50 members.
Considering DNA tests for yourself? The company you
chose is important because of the methods they use and
the genome base they check against. Here's the link to a
http://www.kerchner.com/dnaprintlog2003.htm
http://www.kerchner.com/mtdnalog2003.htm
where clients discuss their results, notice in particular the
comments of those expecting SA (sub-Saharan African)
matches
Avoid a company making extravagant claims about what
they can do, or that doesn't come up front about the limitations
of their tests, or who have a small comparative resource base,
or has a high percentage of "2nd tests" due to "failures," or etc.