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Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
 
I was reading an online scan of a book titled The curse of Ham: Race and Slavery in Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (found here), and it claims that medieval Arabs classified native Egyptians as "Sudan" (blacks). Here is the excerpt in question:



Does anyone know of an Arabic quote describing Egyptians as "Sudan"?
 

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Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
 
What did it say about white Jewish racism?
 

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Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I was reading an online scan of a book titled The curse of Ham: Race and Slavery in Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (found here), and it claims that medieval Arabs classified native Egyptians as "Sudan" (blacks). Here is the excerpt in question:



Does anyone know of an Arabic quote describing Egyptians as "Sudan"?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Topic: Asian blacks? Not unless they're negroid I say

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And exactly who said this??! It certainly was not I. Again, you continue these false accusations of me

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ He must no doubt be referring to the aboriginal peoples of southern China rather than the actual Chinese. Even the Han or ethnic Chinese speak of black peoples who once lived in the jungles of the south.

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeinggay:

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Topic: Asian blacks? Not unless they're negroid I say

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And exactly who said this??! It certainly was not I. Again, you continue these false accusations of me

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LOL Mary, Mary. Always the innocent one. LOL!

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Yes that thread is nothing more than a false accusation. Of course the only reason why you bring this up is to tease my d|ck. No doubt you're just mad becuz Jari and Kalonji smacked you around.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:

There is a passage from Al-Maqrizi that states the Qibts(Arabic name from Egyptians) during the 1400's resembled Nubians,Abyssianians,Syrians and Greeks. He attests to the fact that during this period Egyptians were hetrogenous and varied greatly and a good portion of them could pass for Abyssinians and Nubians. The hetrogenous nature of Egyptians at this time probably is the reason why Arabic writers did not count Egypt as part of Bilad-al-Sudan.

Another Arabic writer named Ibn Butlan stated that the people of Said were mostly dark and very few people with pale faces could be found amongst them. Considering Ibn Butlan was an Iraqi Arab I am assuming he was probably tanned so the people in southern Egypt he saw had to be considerably darker.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
Yes that thread is nothing more than a false accusation.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Truthcentric:
I was reading an online scan of a book titled The curse of Ham: Race and Slavery in Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (found here), and it claims that medieval Arabs classified native Egyptians as "Sudan" (blacks). Here is the excerpt in question:



Does anyone know of an Arabic quote describing Egyptians as "Sudan"?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
There is a passage from Al-Maqrizi that states the Qibts(Arabic name from Egyptians) during the 1400's resembled Nubians,Abyssianians,Syrians and Greeks. He attests to the fact that during this period Egyptians were hetrogenous and varied greatly and a good portion of them could pass for Abyssinians and Nubians. The hetrogenous nature of Egyptians at this time probably is the reason why Arabic writers did not count Egypt as part of Bilad-al-Sudan.



Another Arabic writer named Ibn Butlan stated that the people of Said were mostly dark and very few people with pale faces could be found amongst them. Considering Ibn Butlan was an Iraqi Arab I am assuming he was probably tanned so the people in southern Egypt he saw had to be considerably darker.

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Bilad as-Sudan lol. Just kidding
 

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Posted by King_Scorpion (Member # 4818) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
There is a distinction made between Tribes/Groups and inhabitants of a land...

Zanj, Ethiopians, the people of Fazzan, the Berbers, the
Copts, and Nubians, the people of Zaghawa, Marw, Sind and India, Qamar and Dabila, China,
and Masin... the islands in the seas between China and Africa are full of blacks, such as
Ceylon, Kalah, Amal, Zabij, and their islands, as far as India, China, Kabul, and those
shores.

Al-Jahiz(The Zanj) is not saying that the Chinese are black but that there are black populations in China.

quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ He must no doubt be referring to the aboriginal peoples of southern China rather than the actual Chinese. Even the Han or ethnic Chinese speak of black peoples who once lived in the jungles of the south.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:
This is a stupid thread, but it's the internet, and stupid threaders are free to participate.

but...

What or who gives a rat's fart what the Arab description of who the Ancient Egyptians were or
even the descriptions by the Greeks or the Romans...

The Ancient Egyptians were not an illiterate people and are not an extinct species of people;
the Ancient Egyptians described themselves in writing, who they were as a people and their origins,
and their direct descendants are still very much alive in the Nile Valley today and still Black...

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeingdumb&gay:

bitch STFU and speak when you are spoken to. Go get your other whoring friends, I just got paid today.

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Look now, I'm not one of your bootyfriends so don't speak to me like I am. And do not project your personal issues on to me either. We know all about you, argay, and the rest of your gang. It's a wonder why you're still in this forum. You never contribute anything but your vitriol and jewphobia.

Speaking of which..

quote:

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"But even the most vociferous of the defenders of rabbinical honor, like David M. Goldenberg (in Cornel West's book), admit that the Talmudic rabbis had a "preference" for light skin and that their stories "see dark skin as a form of divine punishment"."

http://www.blacksandjews.com/CurseofHam.html

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quote:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
... I would like to see the writings of Fatimid and Mamluk muslims to see how they describe their own civilizations and the people that populated it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Bitch you know damn well you sell your pussy for a living. Is that another "false accusation"? lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Bitch you know damn well you sell your pussy for a living. Is that another "false accusation"? lol

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Wooooow...

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quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:
China would've been better translated Indo-China,
i.e., Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, VietNam.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ausar:
There is a passage from Al-Maqrizi that states the Qibts(Arabic name from Egyptians) during the 1400's resembled Nubians,Abyssianians,Syrians and Greeks. He attests to the fact that during this period Egyptians were hetrogenous and varied greatly and a good portion of them could pass for Abyssinians and Nubians. The hetrogenous nature of Egyptians at this time probably is the reason why Arabic writers did not count Egypt as part of Bilad-al-Sudan.



Another Arabic writer named Ibn Butlan stated that the people of Said were mostly dark and very few people with pale faces could be found amongst them. Considering Ibn Butlan was an Iraqi Arab I am assuming he was probably tanned so the people in southern Egypt he saw had to be considerably darker.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HERU:

quote:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

quote:

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Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Bitch you know damn well you sell your pussy for a living. Is that another "false accusation"? lol

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Wooooow...

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Yeah... as trollish as they come.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:

The name Suwayd or Sud'an is considered by Arab traditionalists and genealogists the name for a Kanaana man or an Arabian. The name Kana'an refered to in this sense refers only to the ancient and modern Arab tribe of Banu Kana'ana living in southern Arabia among the Dawasir along with the Banu Suwayd or Sudan their sub-clan. It is not just being used in an allegorical or legendary sense.

It is because of the extreme blackness of these Azd (a branch of Kahlan brother of Himyar) until the Iranian settlement in Arabia certain Iranian and Syrian peoples shows to make Ham black and cursed.

The ending "an" is a commonly added people suffix added to their tribal names thus we have Badran, Ajlan (Eglon), Zahran, Kahlan, Dahman, Bahran, Sudan, Hamdan, Basman/Eshban, etc. It is mainly clan names of this modern group of authentic Arabs that are mentioned in the book of Genesis as the "Canaanite" peoples.

It is also useful to note the names Kipti, Misraim, Casluhim, Kuth and Capturim are also customarily utilized in Arabian tradition in the sense of ancient African-Arabian peoples.

Misraim is the same as Assyrian Musri (today called Musra), Casluhim (likely el Haskunah), Capturim equals Keftiu a people of Tunip (Dafinah) who also lived in other places around the Mediterranean, Kuth or "Kuth son of Ham" is Kudha'a ancestor to the Afro-Arabian Mahra who is said to have settled as far east as India.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:
The name Suwayd or Sud'an is considered by Arab traditionalists and genealogists the name for a Kanaana man or an Arabian. The name Kana'an refered to in this sense refers only to the ancient and modern Arab tribe of Banu Kana'ana living in southern Arabia among the Dawasir along with the Banu Suwayd or Sudan their sub-clan. It is not just being used in an allegorical or legendary sense.

It is because of the extreme blackness of these Azd (a branch of Kahlan brother of Himyar) until the Iranian settlement in Arabia certain Iranian and Syrian peoples shows to make Ham black and cursed.

The ending "an" is a commonly added people suffix added to their tribal names thus we have Badran, Ajlan (Eglon), Zahran, Kahlan, Dahman, Bahran, Sudan, Hamdan, Basman/Eshban, etc. It is mainly clan names of this modern group of authentic Arabs that are mentioned in the book of Genesis as the "Canaanite" peoples.

It is also useful to note the names Kipti, Misraim, Casluhim, Kuth and Capturim are also customarily utilized in Arabian tradition in the sense of ancient African-Arabian peoples.

Misraim is the same as Assyrian Musri (today called Musra), Casluhim (likely el Haskunah), Capturim equals Keftiu a people of Tunip (Dafinah) who also lived in other places around the Mediterranean, Kuth or "Kuth son of Ham" is Kudha'a ancestor to the Afro-Arabian Mahra who is said to have settled as far east as India.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:

The name Suwayd or Sud'an is considered by Arab traditionalists and genealogists the name for a Kanaana man or an Arabian. The name Kana'an refered to in this sense refers only to the ancient and modern Arab tribe of Banu Kana'ana living in southern Arabia among the Dawasir along with the Banu Suwayd or Sudan their sub-clan. It is not just being used in an allegorical or legendary sense.

It is because of the extreme blackness of these Azd (a branch of Kahlan brother of Himyar) until the Iranian settlement in Arabia certain Iranian and Syrian peoples shows to make Ham black and cursed.

The ending "an" is a commonly added people suffix added to their tribal names thus we have Badran, Ajlan (Eglon), Zahran, Kahlan, Dahman, Bahran, Sudan, Hamdan, Basman/Eshban, etc. It is mainly clan names of this modern group of authentic Arabs that are mentioned in the book of Genesis as the "Canaanite" peoples.

It is also useful to note the names Kipti, Misraim, Casluhim, Kuth and Capturim are also customarily utilized in Arabian tradition in the sense of ancient African-Arabian peoples.

Misraim is the same as Assyrian Musri (today called Musra), Casluhim (likely el Haskunah), Capturim equals Keftiu a people of Tunip (Dafinah) who also lived in other places around the Mediterranean, Kuth or "Kuth son of Ham" is Kudha'a ancestor to the Afro-Arabian Mahra who is said to have settled as far east as India.

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I was under the impression that the name Sudan is derived from another Arabic word not necessarily meaning black. Why would the land south of Egypt be named after an Arabic tribe?

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quote:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

So a question. Are modern day Sudanese muslims REALLY arab as they say? Or are they simply brain-washed arabized Africans?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ I think Wally answered it.

quote:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

So a question. Are modern day Sudanese muslims REALLY arab as they say? Or are they simply brain-washed arabized Africans?

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Mainly the latter. In Arab society, if one's father is Arab then is that person. The Arabs did colonize Sudan, but there numbers were considerably fewer in Sudan than in Egypt. Thus the vast majority of Sudanese claiming to be Arab due so based on fabricated genealogies. You are aware of the ashraf system in Islam where anyone where those with supposed blood relations to the Prophet Muhammad automatically have prestige. Thus it is not surprising that many Muslim elites not only in Africa but in Asia (even Indonesia and the Philippines) claim descent from someone in Muhammad's family if not Muhammad himself! Of course it is always easiest to fabricate a lineage to some Arab personage rather than a relative of the Prophet, which is what so many in Islamicized countries do. Sadly because of the late slave trade in Africans (as opposed to the earlier one in whites), many Muslim Africans have bought into the negative stereotypes about their own people and would rather claim 'Arab' identity than whatever ethnic identity they truly were.

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quote:

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Originally posted by kenndo:

one correction,the arabs only colonize upper and lower nubia, not southern nubia or the rest of sudan....

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Again, I thought southern nubia IS upper Nubia(?)
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
No, southern nubia was irem before the new kingdom of egypt,or it had cheifdoms or states or both,or it was another state south of kush,but it became apart of kush after the new kingdom.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
^ But is not southern Nubia the same as Upper Nubia just as southern Egypt is the same as Upper Egypt and northern Nubia the same as Lower Nubia etc?? I know Kush and Irem are different polities but they are all 'Nubian' as Nubia is a region.


 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 
...
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
There'll always be twisting unless everybody agrees
what is Nubia.

Some people see a Nubia as everything upNile from the Egypt
of the pharaohs even before the New Kingdom and even though
the word wasn't used then.

Some folk see a Nubia as synonymous with a limited
region no further south than the cataract 2nd cataract.

Others see a border changing Nubia as Egyptian annexing rolled
ever southward although New Kingdom Egyptians used the word
Kush as in King's Son of Kush in that era.

Kush flexed its muscles and ripped, from various centers at various
times, a territory from the junction of Blue and White Niles to the
1st catarct near Elephantine but it gets called Nubia too except
for Egypt and the Levant (Meggido) when under its control.

If so, southern Nubia (more or less all Meroe's territory)
is south or upNile from Upper Nubia, 2nd to 4th cataract
(Kerma - Napata).
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 

If so, southern Nubia (more or less all Meroe's territory)
is south or upNile from Upper Nubia, 2nd to 4th cataract
(Kerma - Napata).

There are those who can see no Nubia before the 4th century
Noba take the stage and the word Nubia from Roman us of
Nobatae (spelled a lot like Napata though far away from it).

So we come to Christian Nubia with Alwa south at the 6th
cataract, Makuria in the Dongola Reach, and Nabatia 2nd
to 1st cataracts.

Christian Makuri under Kalydosos whipped the Arabs forcing them
to halt and come no closer south after they overan Egypt while
spreading Islam near the 7th century's end.

Since then and up to the 14th century Arabs filtered in as
"peaceful" traders and immigrants but it was a scimitar-less
slow conquest via a half millennium long proselyting jihad.

In the middle of the 8th century the Makurian "King of Kings"
Cyriacus invaded up to Lower Egypt ending Arab persecutions
against the Copts their Christian co-religionists.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
In the middle of the 8th century the Makurian "King of Kings"
Cyriacus invaded up to Lower Egypt ending Arab persecutions
against the Copts their Christian co-religionists.


Nubia as an African bred and born polity was finished when
the 16th century came in. After that "Arab" identity became
the in thing after Arabian refugee influx in the wake of inter-
Arab conflicts on the peninsula.

This was implemented upon Shakandu's treachery and
enlistment of Arab aid to secure his usurpation of Makuria's throne.
The same for Amai. Arabs of the numerous banu Kanz dominated
Lower Nubia while the Guhayna Arabs dominated Upper Nubia.

The Shilluk Funj kingdom arose and Amara Dunqas held southern
Nubia in the face of a confederated Arab onslaught. They did,
however, eventually become Muslim. Funj government traded
hands between Arabs and "Hamaji," as the Arabs dubbed Funj's
unmixed blacks until the murderous Turk Muhammad Ali of the
19th century.
 

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Posted by arreubinsoni (Member # 12885) on :
 

quote:

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So a question. Are modern day Sudanese muslims REALLY arab as they say? Or are they simply brain-washed arabized Africans?

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quote:

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So a question. Are modern day Ethiopian Falashas and Christians Amharics REALLY Semitic as they say? Or are they simply brain-washed "Semitized" Africans?

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funny
better questionare modern-day african americans REALLY americans and africans simultaneously. Or are they simply in the same status before the emancipation proclamation. i ask because when freeing slaves there must be a deed or word of mouth between the two contractors that says so. anybody and thing can be emancipated but it does not necessarily mean freedom of goods but it would mean a transfer of product from one owner to another.
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
alTakruri answer is correct.
another little unknown fact or not to known is that there were a short live nubian kingdom in the shendi region of meroe in lastinf from 1600 something a.d. to the 1700's. these nubains rebel for a short time but the funj took over again.

the mahdi in sudan was a nubian,so this short lived islamic nubian kingdom lasted until they were conqured by the british.


there were other nubian areas in the sudan but not has large has the nile valley nubian kingdoms.
the smaller nubian kindoms like the hill nubians along with other nuba remain free.i think ther was a free nubian kingdom too toward to the eastern sudan,but i do not know how long it lasted.

and it seems the alwan nubians were free partly or semi autonomous but never gain a fully free nubian kingom again except for the short live nubian kingdom of shendi and maybe toward the eastern sudan and they became islamic.

quote-
Alodia seems to have preserved its identity after the Funj conquest and its incorporation into the Kingdom of Sennar. The Alodians, who became known as the Abdallab, revolted under Ajib the Great and formed the semi-autonomous Kingdom of Dongola that persisted for several centuries.


there are three movies about this period.I SEEN the first two.

you could rent or see them on youtube or look for in on the web somewhere.


Khartoum (film)
Starring, Laurence Olivier · Charlton Heston ... Charlton Heston (right) as Gordon with Richard Johnson (left) as Colonel J.D.H. Stewart ... along with the entire garrison and populace, though the Mahdi had forbidden killing Gordon. ...

Laurence Olivier plays the Mahdi ,yeah he plays a black man.


the other one is
The Four Feathers (2002)-
The Four Feathers (1939) -








 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
Directed by Basil Dearden, Eliot Elisofon. Starring Charlton Heston, Laurence Olivier. Khartoum: blackface Olivier scrapes the bottom of some macabre barrels 12 November 2009 12:54 AM, PST | The Guardian - Film News ...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060588/


Frank Cordell - Khartoum - Main Theme and End ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGWPXiSDDAU


Directed by Shekhar Kapur. Starring Wes Bentley, James Cosmo, Djimon Hounsou. A British officer resigns his post just before battle and subsequently receives four white feathers from his friends and fiancee as symbols ...

The Four Feathers: Heath Ledger, Wes Bentley, Kate Hudson


The Four Feathers movie trailer preview from ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=larHz6yHHck

The Four Feathers - Battle of El Gubat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5b6hmL2cUg
 

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Posted by kenndo (Member # 4846) on :
 
One more thing here is some info on the what has happen in sudan.

There seems to be two types of black arabs in the sudan.all are really arabized nubians but vary in degree in arabization.

One group see themselves only has arabs,the other see themselves has arab first but will admit a nubian background too i guess,so these world be arab-nubians but they has a whole will see themselves arab first,that's why they are still called arabs.I think a few in the arab nubian group do see themselves nubian again first or only nubian but their numbers are not large enough yet to create another group of arabized nubians that call themselves nubians first.


Maybe in the future thier numbers will increase to do so,but they would have to speak up and change their profile in sudan so the world would know and it will show up in the future census.
There are other arabized nubians in sudan and egypt,but the difference is that the ones in sudan will see themselves has nubian first and alot of them still have the nubian culture and language.


The arabized nubians in egypt are nubian but only nubian in political-territorial rather than an ethnic-linguistic sense.so they are arab nubians but are considered nubians first,well at least now they do.

Got the info from a old book and it's abit outdated but gives good insight on some nubian groups,
but i guess this deals with this group of nubians in both egypt and sudan


quote-
The dongolaw nubians are nubian but only in speech today,in all other respects they are as thoroughly arabized as thier cousins,the shaiqiya and jaaliyin and they generally deny a nubian identity and history.
__________________________________________________
Now i do not know in recent times if most or all dongolaw nubians change thier views or they got back more of their nubian culture,but this is info that i got from a older source.I have to read more update studies about them.
 

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Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
 
What we see over millennia of history in the Nile
Valley is a steady influx of Semitic speakers who
from the start concentrated in Delta Lower Egypt
precipitating ever southward marrying with Nile
indigenees whose mixed progency, and themselves,
acquire rulership over the Nile Valley and usurp the
identity of "true" Egyptian.

Whether symbolic or real Narmer fought them
and limited their entry. Other pharaohs did so,
the most notable ones were (part) Nehesi and
birthed the Middle and New Kingdoms.

Napata stepped in to set things right for Egypt.
Meroe blocked north Mediterranean conquests.
Makaria barred mass Arab entry into Nubia and
Makaria stepped in to set things right for Egypt.

Alwa's reaction to Arabs seems similar to Late
Period Egypt's reaction to Persian designs and
Funj went the way of the centuries long toll on
Egypt where Semitic speakers precipitating ever
southward marrying with Nile indigenees as they
or their mixed progency acquire rulership over
the Nile Valley or over the minds of the rulers
of the Nile Valley.

Today we see another bastion of wholly indigenous
ancestry stem off largely indigenous ancestored
Semitic speakers' aggression and draw another Nile
Valley indigenee border as they establish the nation
of South Sudan.
 

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Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by alTakruri:

...If so, southern Nubia (more or less all Meroe's territory) is south or upNile from Upper Nubia, 2nd to 4th cataract (Kerma - Napata).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wally:
The colonial Arabic name for Africa was "Bled asSud" (bee.lahdt ah.swad.uh) which means
simply, "Black man's land"...

The "Sudan" did not just consist of the modern state of Sudan, but all of the states and
territories that the Arabs were trying to subjugate; ie, Ghana, Mali, Timbuktu,
Songhai...referred to by European scholars as "the Western Sudan"

The Sudan (Africa) wasn't named after any Arab tribe!

The Arab conquest of Egypt would ultimately come to serve as their base, where Cairo
would become the Capital of the Arab empire. This "Sudan" or Egypt would be stripped of its
language and culture, and colonized...

...

"bilad as sudan" or more accurately "bilad as suten" means in the original African language "The Land
of the Kings" - Black, King, Royal, and Ruler were synonyms in antiquity...

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quote:

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Originally posted by King_Scorpion:

quote:

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Originally posted by dana marniche:
The name Suwayd or Sud'an is considered by Arab traditionalists and genealogists the name for a Kanaana man or an Arabian. The name Kana'an refered to in this sense refers only to the ancient and modern Arab tribe of Banu Kana'ana living in southern Arabia among the Dawasir along with the Banu Suwayd or Sudan their sub-clan. It is not just being used in an allegorical or legendary sense.

It is because of the extreme blackness of these Azd (a branch of Kahlan brother of Himyar) until the Iranian settlement in Arabia certain Iranian and Syrian peoples shows to make Ham black and cursed.

The ending "an" is a commonly added people suffix added to their tribal names thus we have Badran, Ajlan (Eglon), Zahran, Kahlan, Dahman, Bahran, Sudan, Hamdan, Basman/Eshban, etc. It is mainly clan names of this modern group of authentic Arabs that are mentioned in the book of Genesis as the "Canaanite" peoples.

It is also useful to note the names Kipti, Misraim, Casluhim, Kuth and Capturim are also customarily utilized in Arabian tradition in the sense of ancient African-Arabian peoples.

Misraim is the same as Assyrian Musri (today called Musra), Casluhim (likely el Haskunah), Capturim equals Keftiu a people of Tunip (Dafinah) who also lived in other places around the Mediterranean, Kuth or "Kuth son of Ham" is Kudha'a ancestor to the Afro-Arabian Mahra who is said to have settled as far east as India.

---

So a question. Are modern day Sudanese muslims REALLY arab as they say? Or are they simply brain-washed arabized Africans?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:
^ He must no doubt be referring to the aboriginal peoples of southern China rather than the actual Chinese. Even the Han or ethnic Chinese speak of black peoples who once lived in the jungles of the south.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Djehuti:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dana marniche:

The name Suwayd or Sud'an is considered by Arab traditionalists and genealogists the name for a Kinaanah man or an Arabian. The name Kinaanah or Kana'an refered to in this sense only signifies the ancient and modern Arab tribe of Banu Kana'ana living in southern Arabia among the Dawasir along with the Banu Suwayd or Sudan their sub-clan. It is not just being used in an allegorical or legendary sense. The tradition here is linked to the tradition of the ancestral Berbers who were supposed to have settled in Somalia and moved west to the Maghreb.

It is because of the extreme blackness of these Azd (a branch of Kahlan brother of Himyar) until the Iranian settlement in Arabia certain Iranian and Syrian peoples shows to make Ham black and cursed.

The ending "an" is a commonly added people suffix added to their tribal names thus we have Badran, Ajlan (Eglon), Zahran, Kahlan, Dahman, Bahran, Sudan, Hamdan, Basman/Eshban, etc. It is mainly clan names of this modern group of authentic Arabs that are mentioned in the book of Genesis as the "Canaanite" peoples.

It is also useful to note the names Kipti, Misraim, Casluhim, Kuth and Capturim are also customarily utilized in Arabian tradition in the sense of ancient African-Arabian peoples.

Misraim is the same as Assyrian Musri (today called Musra), Casluhim (likely el Haskunah), Capturim equals Keftiu a people of Tunip (Dafinah) who also lived in other places around the Mediterranean, Kuth or "Kuth son of Ham" is Kudha'a ancestor to the Afro-Arabian Mahra who is said to have settled as far east as India.

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I was under the impression that the name Sudan is derived from another Arabic word not necessarily meaning black. Why would the land south of Egypt be named after an Arabic tribe?

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