I admit that when I saw Clash of the Titans with Sam Worthington a couple of years ago, I enjoyed it as a visceral sword-and-sandals action movie. However, I skipped this year's Wrath of the Titans after feeling a little burnt out on movies adapted from Greek history and mythology, but that's not what I'm going to complain about in this post. What currently upsets me about the Clash movies is how they cast Andromeda, Perseus's love interest. In both films they portrayed her as a Nordic-looking European woman, yet in the original Greek mythology she was from "Aethiopia", which is what the Greeks called the area we now know as Sudan. Last time I checked, Sudan is in tropical Africa. In fact the very word "Aethiopia" stems from a Greek word meaning "burnt faces" in reference to the Sudanese people's dark skin. In other words, the Clash of the Titans movies cast a European woman to play a dark-skinned African princess!
Of course this is far from the only creative liberty the Clash movies take with the mythological source material, but I find this one inexcusable because it reeks of racism. It's one thing to tweak a few details of the original mythology for the sake of drama, but there's no reason for Hollywood to replace a beautiful African woman into yet another generic white female lead. Were the filmmakers scared of showing Sam Worthington's Perseus in an interracial relationship with a black woman who wasn't lighter-skinned like Beyonce or Kerry Washington? If that's the case, so much for our post-racial 21st century!
There is reportedly another Clash sequel in production called Revenge of the Titans. I wish there was some way I could contact the filmmakers to inform them of Andromeda's true ethnicity so they can correct their past casting errors. Alternatively, the Clash franchise could be rebooted sometime in the future with a more accurate, African Andromeda. Either way, more people must know that Perseus's love interest was African!
BTW, if they're going to remake Clash yet again for greater ethnic accuracy, I have drawn a couple of redesigns for the characters Andromeda and Cetus (the sea monster):
Andromeda (her costume was inspired by people living in Ethiopia's Omo river valley)
Cetus the sea monster
In ancient Greek mythology, Poseidon sent the sea monster Cetus down to terrorize the African coast after the Queen of Ethiopia favorably compared her own beauty to that of Poseidon's sea-nymphs. After the Ethiopian King consulted an oracle for help, he was instructed to sacrifice his beautiful daughter Andromeda to Cetus. Fortunately for the Ethiopians, the demigod Perseus slew Cetus, rescued Andromeda, and married her.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Truthcentric I made that same complaint back when the movie came out Djehuti said that while my complaint was valid they could do so because they moved the story to Greece.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Truthcentric I made that same complaint back when the movie came out Djehuti said that while my complaint was valid they could do so because they moved the story to Greece.
But why would they do that? What exactly would have been wrong with keeping Andromeda and her people in Africa?
BTW, some people have argued that Andromeda's kingdom was actually in Israel rather than Africa, apparently based on the fact that writers in later antiquity identified some rocks off the Israeli coast as the place where Andromeda was sacrificed, but couldn't that possibly reflect instead that those rocks were the most convenient place for a sacrifice?
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ There are two reasons!
One, Hollywack is ignorant when it comes to certain details of Greek myth, like Joppa being in Ethiopia. Even many people familiar with the Perseus story know about the city of Joppa but don't know that its country was Ethiopia. I myself was one of those people until Takruri told me and I looked it up myself!
And two, Hollywack is still stuck in the racist pre-Civil Rights, pre-21st century mindset. The only time they would have a prominent black actress be the love interest even if the leading man is white is in a 'black' romance movie like 'Something New' with Sanaa Lathan! LOL
The earliest telling of the myth gives no exact location to 'Aethiopia', only that its city of Joppa was coastal. Some think Joppa was on the Red Sea coast of ancient Nubia or northern Sudan, while others think it was on the opposite shore of Arabia. Though the name 'Joppa' itself suggests to be the ancient Canaanite/Phoenician city of Yaffa which survives today in modern Israel. The myths give no description of Andromeda except that she was beautiful or attractive, however later legends and stories about her country and her descendants make it clear the inhabitants were indeed black.
By the way, like you I only saw the first one and not the sequel. As I said when this movie was first discussed, there are too many deviations from the original story to count. One for example makes Joppa to be a city in Argos Greece! Hence, Andromeda being a white blonde. Though the original version made in 1981 does the same by making the inhabitants white and Andromeda blonde.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The earliest telling of the myth gives no exact location to 'Aethiopia', only that its city of Joppa was coastal. Some think Joppa was on the Red Sea coast of ancient Nubia or northern Sudan, while others think it was on the opposite shore of Arabia. Though the name 'Joppa' itself suggests to be the ancient Canaanite/Phoenician city of Yaffa which survives today in modern Israel. The myths give no description of Andromeda except that she was beautiful or attractive, however later legends and stories about her country and her descendants make it clear the inhabitants were indeed black.
Considering that the most common usage of "Aethiopia" in Greco-Roman discourse is to refer to Sudan, I'm inclined to side with the hypothesis you mentioned that Andromeda's Joppa was on the Sudanese coast.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Marketability,cowardice,the same ol story when it come to highlighting anything to do with Blacks or Africans in the past especially ancient civilizations,if they had put up a Black ruling class they may have felt they needed to do some explanation,plus I am not sure if they felt comfortable if their market share would decrease with what would probably amount to an interracial love interest on the silver screen.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Considering that the most common usage of "Aethiopia" in Greco-Roman discourse is to refer to Sudan, I'm inclined to side with the hypothesis you mentioned that Andromeda's Joppa was on the Sudanese coast.
But yet the earliest references to Aethiopia seem to correlate with the Levant or ancient Canaan. This is supported by the names of certain cities like Joppa which is similar to Yaffa as well as the names of other rulers known including the founder Cepheus.
This was explained before here.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: And two, Hollywack is still stuck in the racist pre-Civil Rights, pre-21st century mindset. The only time they would have a prominent black actress be the love interest even if the leading man is white is in a 'black' romance movie like 'Something New' with Sanaa Lathan! LOL
And even then she would be light-skinned and of mixed heritage rather than dark-skinned like, say, Oluchi Onweagba.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Yeah that too. In in most 'black' movies that are produced and directed by blacks, leading ladies tend to be of the 'fair' side. It all stems from the same anti-black, white-supremacist, mentality whether conscious or unconscious.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: But yet the earliest references to Aethiopia seem to correlate with the Levant or ancient Canaan. This is supported by the names of certain cities like Joppa which is similar to Yaffa as well as the names of other rulers known including the founder Cepheus.
I dunno, the impression I get from that thread, particularly this post, was that the people of Yaffa fabricated the connection between their city and Ethiopia. Furthermore, I doubt the people of Joppa, even if they were once darker than modern Palestinians, were ever dark enough to be called "Aethiopes" by the Greeks. Keep in mind that the Greeks almost never described the cocoa-brown Egyptians as "Aethiopes", which convinces me that the term was used specifically to connote the very darkest Africans (i.e. Sudanese).
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: BTW, some people have argued that Andromeda's kingdom was actually in Israel rather than Africa, apparently based on the fact that writers in later antiquity identified some rocks off the Israeli coast as the place where Andromeda was sacrificed, but couldn't that possibly reflect instead that those rocks were the most convenient place for a sacrifice?
It's not only the rocks off the coast, but the place names mentioned like Joppa which correlates with the Canaanite city of Yaffa. Also the names of people like the rulers. While the Perseus tale itself gives no precise location for 'Aethiopia' many other tales explicitly say that it is the land that became Phoenicia.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Truthcentric maybe you need to revisit this statment made by Strabo
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I dunno, the impression I get from that thread, particularly this post, was that the people of Yaffa fabricated the connection between their city and Ethiopia. Furthermore, I doubt the people of Joppa, even if they were once darker than modern Palestinians, were ever dark enough to be called "Aethiopes" by the Greeks. Keep in mind that the Greeks almost never described the cocoa-brown Egyptians as "Aethiopes", which convinces me that the term was used specifically to connote the very darkest Africans (i.e. Sudanese).
But you forget that the Greeks sometimes used Ethiopian interchangeably with Egyptian just as they used 'Libyan'. As for Takruri's post, it seems to suggest that Aethiopia may originally have been a polity in Arabia that annexed the Levant region.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Truthcentric maybe you need to revisit this statment made by Strabo
Excellent point, Brada. Don't forget the Greeks distinguished a 'leuco-Syrioi' or White Syrians as opposed to the original Syrians.
Now I'm not going to say for certain that Canaan (the Levant) was the Aethiopia of Perseus, but the evidence doesn't rule it out.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
^ Maybe Strabo is referring to the time when Kush controlled parts of the Levant when he says that Syria was in the domain of Cepheus?
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: But you forget that the Greeks sometimes used Ethiopian interchangeably with Egyptian just as they used 'Libyan'.
Ancient writers did group Egyptians and Ethiopians together as dark-skinned people with curly hair, but I've don't recall Egyptians ever being described as Ethiopians as if the two labels were interchangeable. The closest I can think of is the statement by Diodorus that Egypt was once an Ethiopian colony, and even then that may be a reference to the 25th dynasty.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ I can't remember where, but years ago in my research on the African identity of Egypt, I did come across Greek texts calling Egyptians 'Aethiopians' as well. I believe Dr Sally-Ann Ashton the Greco-Roman expert on Egyptian history has pointed this out as well.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Maybe Strabo is referring to the time when Kush controlled parts of the Levant when he says that Syria was in the domain of Cepheus?
Nope! Cepheus never ruled Egypt as that was the domain of his brother Aegyptus whose twin brother Danaus held as his domain Libya (west of Egypt). All three brothers ruled centuries before the time of Perseus who himself was said to have founded Bronze Age Mycenae!
Mind you the black presence in the Levant correlates with the Biblical classifications of Canaan as one of the sons of Ham and brother to Kush, Mizraim (Egypt), and Phut (Libya).
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
What I find funny is how academia seems to be totally silent about an indigenous black presence in the Levant let alone as to how the Natufians looked. Though as I've read somewhere years ago and Takruri and Dana have commented how even the Egyptian Queen Tiye was postulated by past scholars to have 'Syrian' origins despite her dark appearance.
I will say in regards to the whole 'Aethiopian' issue in Greek literature, I plan on getting the book The Ethiopian in Greek and Roman Civilization by Grace Maynard Hadley (1922). I've only read excerpts, and let me say I was surprised at how prominently blacks figured in early Greek myths and legends, and not just Andromeda!
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Originally posted by Truthcentric: Maybe Strabo is referring to the time when Kush controlled parts of the Levant when he says that Syria was in the domain of Cepheus?
Or maybe through centuries of occupation by the Kemetic armies high ranking officers retired and became the elite of the area going all the way back to Pepi I and II when they flood the area with armies raised from the south,and going even further back to the time of the kings of Ta-Seti who were active at-least in trade in that area.
Think about it like this the Colchians came about in much the same manner.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
Another drawing of Andromeda by yours truly: Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ More afronut crackpottery. You do realise Andromeda was from the ASIATIC Ethiopia?
She is described as WHITE skinned.
Lets take a look at the classical sources -
Tatius, Philostratus, Manilius etcetc describe her as WHITE skinned.
Epic fail thread.
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
So when the ancients wrote 'white' they meant 'white', but when they wrote 'black' they meant something else?
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
Expect the usual afrocentric replies. How will the afronuts try and get out of this one... all the ancient sources describe Andromeda as white skinned.
I guess she was an albino then ey?
LMAO.
Afrocentrics are damn ignorant.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by claus3600: So when the ancients wrote 'white' they meant 'white', but when they wrote 'black' they meant something else?
The ancient Greeks had no strict word for 'Black skinned', as instead melanochroes can translate as 'dark skinned'.
In contrast, they used Leukos (λευκός) meaning strickly white skinned.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
First of all it's based on mythology. Secondly spirituality.
The story of Perseus and Andromeda derives from Greek mythology and contains very deep, although simply stated, wisdom on the interactions of male and female energy.
Perseus is one of the greatest heroes of Greek Mythology. He was the son of mighty Zeus and mortal Danae. He is best known as the slayer of the Gorgon Medusa, a fearsome monster, and as the rescuer of the Ethiopian princess Andromeda. Perseus is also said to be an ancestor of Hercules and the Asian race of the Persians. He was praised as a brave man, a good son and an honorable king.
As he was flying over Africa in his return home, Perseus encountered Atlas the Titan, a mythical giant, who challenged him. In their confrontation, Perseus used Medousa's head to turn the Titan into stone. Perseus continued his journey home and, as he passed the kingdom of Ethiopia, he came upon the beautiful and helpless maiden Andromeda, chained to the rocks waiting to be devoured by a sea monster.
The beautiful Andromeda was the daughter of the Ethiopian king *Cepheus and queen **Cassiopeia. One day, the vain queen had bragged that her daughter Andromeda was more beautiful than the Nereids, the sea nymphs. The sea nymphs fell angry to hear that and complained to Poseidon, the god of the sea. A furious Poseidon unleashed the sea monster Cetus to frequently ravage the coast and devastate the land of Ethiopia in order to avenge the insult to his wards, the Nereids. The desperate king Cephus appealed Zeus, who suggested the sacrifice of Andromeda as the only way to appease the wrathful Poseidon.
Syllabification:OnOff Pronunciation: /ˈsēfēəs, ˈsēˌfyo͞os/ Astronomy a constellation near the north celestial pole. (as genitive Cephei /ˈsēfēˌī/) used with a preceding letter or numeral to designate a star in this constellation: the star Beta Cephei
Origin: from the name of a king of Ethiopia, the husband of Cassiopeia
Syllabification:OnOff Pronunciation: /ˌkasēəˈpēə/ 1 Greek Mythology the wife of Cepheus, king of Ethiopia, and mother of Andromeda. 2 Astronomy a constellation near the north celestial pole, recognizable by the conspicuous “W” pattern of its brightest stars. (as genitive Cassiopeiae /ˌkasēəˈpē-ē/) used with a preceding letter or numeral to designate a star in this constellation: the star Delta Cassiopeiae
quote:Originally posted by claus3600: So when the ancients wrote 'white' they meant 'white', but when they wrote 'black' they meant something else?
LOL That is the mentality of Prime-Idiot and his ilk. Unfortunately for him, I'm getting the book The Ethiopian in Greek and Roman Civilization(1922) written by Classicist Grace Maynard Hadley. Once I cite the writings on this forum, his dumbass will be the stuff that grass grows on. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Andromeda (her costume was inspired by people living in Ethiopia's Omo river valley)
I've always imagined Andromeda to wear a long multicolored dress same as that of ancien Canaanites but with long braided hair.
quote: Cetus the sea monster
I also imagined the cetus to be a mosasaur since it is a marine creature.
By the way, the movie made some silly crap up about the craken (cetus) being made from Hades body when in the original myth, the creature was the son of the sea goddess Ceta who was the mother of all sea monsters and is the mother-in-law of Poseidon! LOL Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: I've always imagined Andromeda to wear a long multicolored dress same as that of ancien Canaanites but with long braided hair.
Even if we identify her Ethiopia with Sudan rather than Canaan, I admit that she would probably dress quite differently from my drawing. She would probably dress like a Egyptian or Kushite, but I choose the Omotic look because I've never drawn someone from that culture before.
quote:I also imagined the cetus to be a mosasaur since it is a marine creature.
Actually my very first mental image of Cetus was that of a Liopleurodon (like from Walking with Dinosaurs). I guess my decision to make him a Spinosaurus was rooted in a desire to make him bipedal like the Hollywood visions of Cetus.
Here are some other artists' depictions of Andromeda, all found on DeviantArt:
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Expect the usual afrocentric replies. How will the afronuts try and get out of this one... all the ancient sources describe Andromeda as white skinned.
I guess she was an albino then ey?
LMAO.
Afrocentrics are damn ignorant.
Its not unusual for the Greeks to flip flop back and forth between stating a character was black, to stating he was white. Case in point, Memnon:
But wait, Memnon wasn't really black either, he was white with blond hair, and blue eyes, right b!tch boy?
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
Andromeda with Perseus
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: But wait, Memnon wasn't really black either
''You would not say that Memnon's skin is really black, for the darkness of it shows a trace of ruddiness.'' - Philostratus, Imagines, i. 17
Memnon was just a swarthy skinned Caucasoid, from the middle-east, not a Negroid.
The classical texts are very clear that although Memnon's skin was swarthy or dark, it was not black skin, and is described as being lighter or having a ruddy glow.
It is easy to obviously distinguish between a ruddy-brown middle-eastener (Caucasoid) to a Negroid. The latter don't have a red glow because their skin is excessively dark.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: ''You would not say that Memnon's skin is really black, for the darkness of it shows a trace of ruddiness.'' - Philostratus, Imagines, i. 17
Dude, Philostratus live in the second and third centuries AD, many centuries after the Trojan War. It's not like he personally saw Memnon face to face. Besides, it's obvious from that passage's wording that he's addressing a widely accepted tradition that Memnon was black-skinned.
At any rate, if Memnon and Andromeda were merely "swarthy-skinned Caucasoids" (which sounds an awful lot like the ancient Greeks themselves), the Greeks would never have called their country "land of the burnt faces", which is exactly what "Aethiopia" means.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Excellent on point observations, Truth! That is exactly why the Anglo will always be a Prime-Idiot.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Its not unusual for the Greeks to flip flop back and forth between stating a character was black, to stating he was white. Case in point, Memnon:
But wait, Memnon wasn't really black either, he was white with blond hair, and blue eyes, right b!tch boy?
Actually the Greeks never flipped-flopped like the anglo b|tch idiot. Their descriptions tended to be consistent but their artistic portrayals on the other hand did not. This was simply because Greek art tends to be idealistic rather than realistic which is why some black figures in legend were portrayed as 'white' or rather Greek-like in appearance as well.
This is why I can't wait to get the Hadley book on 'Ethiopians'. So I can watch the b|tch boy squirm and scream! LOL Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^Thats not completely true. I think it was Frank Snowden who noted Memnon as being among the couple of black figures who sometimes appeared white washed in the descriptions of later Greco-Romans.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: But wait, Memnon wasn't really black either
''You would not say that Memnon's skin is really black, for the darkness of it shows a trace of ruddiness.'' - Philostratus, Imagines, i. 17
Memnon was just a swarthy skinned Caucasoid, from the middle-east, not a Negroid.
Stop talking about Negroids you phucking degenerate. No was talking about Negroids. It works like this, idiot, **prove** ruddiness here refers to swarthy. The Middle Easteners you refer to don't seem to fit the bill, unless you can prove they do. Again, him saying ''not really black'', because his skin ''showed a trace of ruddiness'' disqualifies only pitch black people, you dumb nut. Now prove the meaning of the original Greek text also disqualifies people with the skintone of Will Smith, or shut the phuck up.
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Besides, it's obvious from that passage's wording that he's addressing a widely accepted tradition that Memnon was black-skinned.
LOL. Good argument. Angly nut = destroyed.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
It isn't rocket science...
ruddy-brown skin of Memnon -
Typical of Caucasoids or pred Caucasoid in the middle-east as shown in their creation myths.
quote: Archibald Sayce who noted that the Akkadian word Adamatu, meaning "dark red" (earth),[11] appears closely connected to the etymology of Adam and that it relates to dark red skin.[12][13] Adam in Hebrew translates as "ruddy" according to Gesenius,[14] "red, of the colour of blood" according to Calmet,[15] or "ruddiness of flesh" ("ruddy") according to James Strong.[16] The root of the word Adam is dam, meaning blood and some scholars have shown the parallels between this and the creation of man as described in the Enûma Eliš (Tablet VI). In Hebrew also, adom translates as "ruddy" or "red", while adamah as "red soil".[17][18] Furthermore according to Josephus (c. 94 AD): "This man was called Adam, which in the Hebrew tongue signifies one that is red, because he was formed out of the red earth".
Sayce, acknowledging the aforementioned links believed that the "dark race" described in K. 3364 (line 18) was a dark reddish skinned aboriginal race of "primitive Babylonia"
Compare to Negroids (no ruddy glow) -
Posted by claus3600 (Member # 19584) on :
Now that Anglo is attempting to go mainstream, the following campaign group may take an interest in him
Unite Against Fascism http://uaf.org.uk/ Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: It isn't rocket science...
ruddy-brown skin of Memnon -
Typical of Caucasoids or pred Caucasoid in the middle-east as shown in their creation myths.
quote: Archibald Sayce who noted that the Akkadian word Adamatu, meaning "dark red" (earth),[11] appears closely connected to the etymology of Adam and that it relates to dark red skin.[12][13] Adam in Hebrew translates as "ruddy" according to Gesenius,[14] "red, of the colour of blood" according to Calmet,[15] or "ruddiness of flesh" ("ruddy") according to James Strong.[16] The root of the word Adam is dam, meaning blood and some scholars have shown the parallels between this and the creation of man as described in the Enûma Eliš (Tablet VI). In Hebrew also, adom translates as "ruddy" or "red", while adamah as "red soil".[17][18] Furthermore according to Josephus (c. 94 AD): "This man was called Adam, which in the Hebrew tongue signifies one that is red, because he was formed out of the red earth".
Sayce, acknowledging the aforementioned links believed that the "dark race" described in K. 3364 (line 18) was a dark reddish skinned aboriginal race of "primitive Babylonia"
Compare to Negroids (no ruddy glow) -
אַדְמֹונִי
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
While we're on the subject of black people in European and Mediterranean mythology...
I read somewhere that the story of St. George and the Dragon takes place in "Libya", which in antiquity meant West Africa. Of course St. George himself was a Roman soldier, but would the people he had saved (including the princess they were offering to the dragon) been black as well?
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_frat: It isn't rocket science...
ruddy-brown skin of Memnon -
Typical of Caucasoids or pred Caucasoid in the middle-east as shown in their creation myths.
quote: Archibald Sayce who noted that the Akkadian word Adamatu, meaning "dark red" (earth),[11] appears closely connected to the etymology of Adam and that it relates to dark red skin.[12][13] Adam in Hebrew translates as "ruddy" according to Gesenius,[14] "red, of the colour of blood" according to Calmet,[15] or "ruddiness of flesh" ("ruddy") according to James Strong.[16] The root of the word Adam is dam, meaning blood and some scholars have shown the parallels between this and the creation of man as described in the Enûma Eliš (Tablet VI). In Hebrew also, adom translates as "ruddy" or "red", while adamah as "red soil".[17][18] Furthermore according to Josephus (c. 94 AD): "This man was called Adam, which in the Hebrew tongue signifies one that is red, because he was formed out of the red earth".
Sayce, acknowledging the aforementioned links believed that the "dark race" described in K. 3364 (line 18) was a dark reddish skinned aboriginal race of "primitive Babylonia"
Compare to Negroids (no ruddy glow) -
אַדְמֹונִי
Y-DNA haplogroup A
quote:represents the oldest branching of the human Y chromosome tree, thought to have begun about 60,000 years ago. Like Y-DNA haplogroup B, the A lineage is seen only in Africa and is scattered widely, but thinly across the continent. These haplogroups have higher frequencies among hunter-gather groups in Ethiopia and Sudan, and are also seen among click language-speaking populations. Their patchy, widespread distribution may mean that these haplogroups are remnants of ancient lineages that once had a much wider range but have been largely displaced by more recent population events.
The most commonly seen sub-groups of haplogroup A are A2 (A-M6), A3b1 (A-M51), and A3b2 (A-M13). Sub-groups A2 and A3b1 are seen in South Africa, with A3b1 seen exclusively among the Khoisan. The range of A3b2 is restricted to Eastern Africa and at lower frequencies among Cameroonians. About 1.1% of African-Americans belong to the sub-group A3b2.
Y-DNA haplogroup B,
quote:like Y-DNA haplogroup A, is seen only in Africa and is scattered widely, but thinly across the continent. B is thought to have arisen approximately 50,000 years ago. These haplogroups have higher frequencies among hunter-gather groups in Ethiopia and Sudan, and are also seen among click language-speaking populations. The patchy, widespread distribution of these haplogroups may mean that they are remnants of ancient lineages that once had a much wider range but have been largely displaced by more recent population events.
Some geographic structuring is seen between the sub-groups B2a (B-M150) and B2b (B-M112). Sub-group B2b is seen among Central African Pygmies and South African Khoisan. Sub-group B2a is seen among Cameroonians, East Africans, and among South African Bantu speakers. B2a1a (B-M109) is the most commonly seen sub-group of B2a. About 2.3% of African-Americans belong to haplogroup B - with 1.5% of them belonging to the sub-group B2a1a.
Sayce, acknowledging the aforementioned links believed that the "dark race" described in K. 3364 (line 18) was a dark reddish skinned aboriginal race of "primitive Babylonia"
Good, now that we got this out of the way. We can look for parables of these tropical Africans who moved into West Asia. I am sure Dana can tell a thing or two about them. Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
My interpretation of St. George's confrontation with a dragon.
Although St. George went on to become the patron saint of England, in the original myth he was a Roman soldier instead of the commonly depicted medieval knight. Furthermore, the tale was set in "Libya", which is what the Greeks and Romans called Africa west of the Nile Valley, so I've made the damsel-in-distress and the landscape African rather than European. One thing my rendition does have in common with traditional images is that my dragon isn't really that big; in some old artwork, the dragon is no bigger than St. George's horse!
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ You really have mental problems, trying to insert (ugly) black woman everywhere.
What will be next? Boudica was a negress with an afro. lmao.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: the Greeks would never have called their country "land of the burnt faces", which is exactly what "Aethiopia" means.
And in Ovid, Manilius, Hyginus and other sources, 'Aethiopia' (land of the burnt faces) is extended to India. The origin of the term ''burnt faces' derives from the Phaethon sun chariot crash myth. The point is, it was an aetiological myth used to explain the origin of dark skin by the ancient greeks and romans, but note that Indians are clustered in the same 'burnt face' group.
Indians are not Negroid or 'Black' as everyone knows. So the 'burnt face' was being applied not strickly to Black Africans. It easily could have been just used for a swarthy asiatic considering Indians were classified as burnt.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:This is why I can't wait to get the Hadley book on 'Ethiopians'. So I can watch the b|tch boy squirm and scream
Well when you get it, make a thread. I don't know what you are trying to proove.
The Asiatic (eastern) Ethiopians were never Negroid. Herodotus describes them as STRAIGHT haired and clearly notes they were a seperate race to the western wooly haired Ethiopians.
The only Negroids were the western ethiops.
The eastern or Asiatic Ethiops were Caucasoid.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
lol at the nonsense above! Account. After account describes the people of Africa as Aethiopians. Even thou Herodotus himself actually never went that far into the African continent.lol
καίω, καίομαι
πρόσωπο
Αιθιοπία
quote:
Herodotus, there are two sets of Ethiopians. East and West (Libya).
They differed in nothing from the other Ethiopians, save in their language, and the character of their hair.
For the Eastern Ethiopians have straight hair, while they of Libya are more woolly-haired than any other people in the world.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ I think Anglo-PrimeIdiot knows this per his alleged Classics 'studies' but chooses to ignore these FACTS anyways!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: That's not completely true. I think it was Frank Snowden who noted Memnon as being among the couple of black figures who sometimes appeared white washed in the descriptions of later Greco-Romans.
If that's the case then I stand corrected. Though I will say that the same definitely may have happened with Andromeda for as Hadley herself has remarked in her book that though the people of Ethiopia were black, Andromeda may have been portrayed as white in later times due to her beauty. Thus, the cultural bias that a beautiful woman (to the Greeks) had to be fair in complexion.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^Yes, of course, they are myths. All myths are subject to gradual change.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: Herodotus describes them as STRAIGHT haired and clearly notes they were a seperate race to the western wooly haired Ethiopians.
Lying piece a sh!t.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
Another drawing of Andromeda, Perseus's love interest from Greek mythology, but this time I've given her a more active pose than usual. The traditional Greek myths portray her as a stereotypical damsel in distress being offered to a sea monster, but what if she was capable of taking care of herself when not chained up to a rock?
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Anglo sure like to take liberties with ancient writers,where as Herodotus unites eastern and western Ethiopians with the only difference is language and hair texture he separates them..divide and conquer must be in the blood of the Brits.
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Ancient Egyptian Calendar Reveals Earliest Record of 'Demon Star' Ancient Egyptians may have chronicled the flickering of a star known as "the Demon," perhaps the earliest known record of a variable star, astronomers suggest. The ancient Egyptians wrote calendars that marked lucky and unlucky days. These predictions were based on astronomical and mythological events thought of as influential for everyday life. The best preserved of these calendars is the Cairo Calendar, a papyrus document dating between 1163 and 1271 B.C. The entry for each day is prefaced by three hieroglyphics that indicate either good or bad luck, with the characters often derived from events of mythology. Astronomers at the University of Helsinki in Finland had previously discovered that some of the fortunate days recurred in a pattern, every 29.6 days. This almost exactly matches the length of the lunar cycle — the time between two full moons. New moons may have been associated with bad luck. Dimming demon star The scientists also detected another pattern in the calendar, one that occurred every 2.85 days. Now the researchers suggest this approximately matches regular dimming of Algol, "the Demon Star," which lies approximately 93 light-years away in the constellation Perseus as one of the eyes of Medusa's head. Its name comes from the Arabic phrase, ra's al-ghul, which means "the demon's head."
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_PrimeIdiot: Herodotus describes them as STRAIGHT haired and clearly notes they were a seperate race to the western wooly haired Ethiopians.
Lying piece a sh!t.
LOL
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Anglo sure like to take liberties with ancient writers, where as Herodotus unites eastern and western Ethiopians with the only difference is language and hair texture he separates them..divide and conquer must be in the blood of the Brits.
Indeed. BOTH groups were called 'Ethiopians' and BOTH groups were described as 'black' with the only differences being what you just mentioned. Of course the only speaking of 'race' and racial crap is the Anglo-Idiot.
This is why I am getting the Hadley book. So I can cite the first hand evidence of what the Greeks actually said themselves. It's because I'm sick of Anglo-idiots distorting and twisting what the Greeks and Romans actually said of the black peoples they saw and encountered!
This reminds me of how some idiots who call themselves 'scholars' would try to lie and spin Greek descriptions of Egyptians as melanos to mean 'dark' or 'tan' when the word itself actually means BLACK!
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ I think Anglo-PrimeIdiot knows this per his alleged Classics 'studies' but chooses to ignore these FACTS anyways!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: That's not completely true. I think it was Frank Snowden who noted Memnon as being among the couple of black figures who sometimes appeared white washed in the descriptions of later Greco-Romans.
If that's the case then I stand corrected. Though I will say that the same definitely may have happened with Andromeda for as Hadley herself has remarked in her book that though the people of Ethiopia were black, Andromeda may have been portrayed as white in later times due to her beauty. Thus, the cultural bias that a beautiful woman (to the Greeks) had to be fair in complexion.
One only has to type the actual Greek word Αιθιοπία for Ethiopia, into a search box like Google. Let's see what happens?
Anglo P goes by "science fiction aka science fantasy" in the literal meaning of the word.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
I've just started writing a story starring Andromeda. You can read the opening excerpt here.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
Experimental book cover for my story: Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
LMAO...
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: It isn't rocket science...
ruddy-brown skin of Memnon -
The Original Middle East and Southern Euro's were Black Kushites...LMAO
quote:pred Caucasoid in the middle-east as shown in their creation myths.
ruddy-brown skin of Memnon -
.....
It isn't rocket sciene
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ LOL Not rocket science indeed!
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Experimental book cover for my story:
Hey Truth, just a suggestion but maybe for the background you should show a picture of the sea shore to indicate that her kingdom (if it was south of Egypt) is by the Red Sea. Also, I suggest you put more metal jewelry and multicolored beads on her since such was a sign of high status even among the Omo Valley people such as the Hamar and Karo.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ jesus christ.
Andromeda is described in the classical literature as a beautiful princess, with white skin and flowing hair. Not a hideous congoid with an afro...
what the REAL andromeda would have looked like -
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
''For his white Ethiopian Andromeda Heliodorus was probably influenced by images he hadseen of the rescue by Perseus, such as those which survive in ancient paintings and mosaics.
[...]He was presumably influenced too by the ekphrastic descriptions ofpictures of the subject by Hellenistic writers... they either imply or explicitly state that Andromeda was pale-skinned.
The lengthy account ofone such painting in that other famous Greek romance, Clitophon and Leucippe by Achilles Tatius, certainly indicates this, referring to the pallor on her cheeks which deprives them of their usual pink, and her outstretched arms turned livid from their normal spotless white.
...And if he had consulted the Imagines of Philostratus, Heliodorus would have been assured that Andromeda, though Ethiopian, was nonethe less depicted as white. ...
Philostratus describes Andromeda as delightful or charming in her white beauty.
... The authors of mythological compendia seem to confirmAndromeda's whiteness, or at least do not contradict it. Manilius, indeed, describesher in the Poetica astronomica as white-throated ('nivea cervice'...
And those writers who talk of other painted versions and refer to the Ethiopian location-Lucian, forexample, with his reference to the Ethiopian adventure -give no indication that she was not white''
The Black Andromeda Author(s): Elizabeth McGrathSource: Journal of the Warburg and Courtauld Institutes, Vol. 55 (1992), pp. 1-18
NOTE: The above paper shows how Andromeda who was originally depicted and known to be white skinned and clearly Caucasoid by the ancient Greeks and Romans, changed far later during the Renaissance to be ''black''.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
^ So far from ''whitewashing'' what we have is a story about a white princess (as described in all the ancient texts) who was ''blackwashed'' for some unknown reason during the Renaissance...
Posted by HERU (Member # 6085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^Thats not completely true. I think it was Frank Snowden who noted Memnon as being among the couple of black figures who sometimes appeared white washed in the descriptions of later Greco-Romans.
Snowden on race in classical mythology:
"the presence of black gods or heroes and their interracial amours presented no embarassment and evoked no apologies from poets or artists."
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
^ Indeed.
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Idiot: So far from ''whitewashing'' what we have is a story about a white princess (as described in all the ancient texts) who was ''blackwashed'' for some unknown reason during the Renaissance...
LOL @ "blackwashed". There is no such phrase as you cannot wash something's pigment away to become "black"! Dumbf*ck. Swenet and Heru are correct that the white-wash is what truly occurred for how can an Ethiopian princess be 'white'. Andromeda's genealogy was expressed here and she shares commont descent from Libya (Africa) along with Aegyptus of Egypt as well as Danaus of Libya proper.
Posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist (Member # 18853) on :
quote:Snowden on race in classical mythology:
"the presence of black gods or heroes and their interracial amours presented no embarassment and evoked no apologies from poets or artists."
More retard fantasy...
The Gods and heroes of Greek mythology are mostly all described as fair haired and light skinned. None are described as Black.
Trust me, you won't win on this topic. I published the largest collection of pigmentation of God via classical references on the net.
Posted by HERU (Member # 6085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: LOL @ "blackwashed". There is no such phrase as you cannot wash something's pigment away to become "black"! Dumbf*ck. Swenet and Heru are correct that the white-wash is what truly occurred for how can an Ethiopian princess be 'white'. Andromeda's genealogy was expressed here and she shares commont descent from Libya (Africa) along with Aegyptus of Egypt as well as Danaus of Libya proper.
Thanks for the link
Posted by brick (Member # 20331) on :
deleted.
Posted by mena7 (Member # 20555) on :
Hollywood is very racist in historical movies.In the movie Troy king Argamemnon(Memnon)is portray as a pale man even thought in history/mythology he is black. In the movie Alexander Niger the best friend of Alexander is play by a pale man when Niger was black in history .
In history/mythology princess Andromeda was the black daughter of the city of Joffa Ethiopian king Cepheus and Ethiopian Queen Andromeda(Anu Mauro). In the two movies the clash of the Titan Andromeda is portray as a pale person .
Black actor like Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, Eddy Murphy, Lawrence Fishburn, Will Smith are never cast as Pharaoh, Ethiopian king or Moorish king in any movie. There are no movie about ancient Egypt that show the Egyptian Elite and people as black.The black people are alway the servant .
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by mena7: Hollywood is very racist in historical movies.In the movie Troy king Argamemnon(Memnon)is portray as a pale man even thought in history/mythology he is black. In the movie Alexander Niger the best friend of Alexander is play by a pale man when Niger was black in history.
Actually, Agamemnon the (Greek) King of Mycenae and brother of Helen's original husband Menelaus was different from the Ethiopian king Memnon, but other than that your point is too well noted. LOL @ Niger being played by a white guy!
Hollyweird's racist white-wash tradition is so blatant, just remember what they did with the movie The Last Airbender, that awful dreck by M. Night Shyalaman.
quote:In history/mythology princess Andromeda was the black daughter of the city of Joffa Ethiopian king Cepheus and Ethiopian Queen Andromeda (Anu Mauro). In the two movies the clash of the Titan Andromeda is portray as a pale person.
Yes this was discussed not only in this thread but several others. I even included a link to a thread about Andromeda's genealogy. Not surprising that in both movies (original and remake), Ethiopia was not mentioned at all.
quote:Black actor like Denzel Washington, Wesley Snipes, Eddy Murphy, Lawrence Fishburn, Will Smith are never cast as Pharaoh, Ethiopian king or Moorish king in any movie. There are no movie about ancient Egypt that show the Egyptian Elite and people as black.The black people are alway the servant .
Actually from what I've heard, Will Smith made a movie where he portrays the Nubian king Taharqa, though the Egyptians are played by whites. I believe Halle Berry played Nefertiti in a movie several years ago but haven't heard a peep from it since.
Yeah, Hollywierd is full of sh*t.
Posted by Men Kheper Ra (Member # 4547) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anglo_Pyramidologist: It isn't rocket science...
ruddy-brown skin of Memnon -
Typical of Caucasoids or pred Caucasoid in the middle-east as shown in their creation myths.
quote: Archibald Sayce who noted that the Akkadian word Adamatu, meaning "dark red" (earth),[11] appears closely connected to the etymology of Adam and that it relates to dark red skin.[12][13] Adam in Hebrew translates as "ruddy" according to Gesenius,[14] "red, of the colour of blood" according to Calmet,[15] or "ruddiness of flesh" ("ruddy") according to James Strong.[16] The root of the word Adam is dam, meaning blood and some scholars have shown the parallels between this and the creation of man as described in the Enûma Eliš (Tablet VI). In Hebrew also, adom translates as "ruddy" or "red", while adamah as "red soil".[17][18] Furthermore according to Josephus (c. 94 AD): "This man was called Adam, which in the Hebrew tongue signifies one that is red, because he was formed out of the red earth".
Sayce, acknowledging the aforementioned links believed that the "dark race" described in K. 3364 (line 18) was a dark reddish skinned aboriginal race of "primitive Babylonia"
Compare to Negroids (no ruddy glow) -
Dude I keep hearing you throw around 'Ruddy' like its the color of Europeans or something ... do you even know what color Ruddy is? Geez!!! I'm black and my skin color is 'Ruddy'; damn!!! YOU ARE IGNORANT!!!
This cigar is 'Ruddy':
This dirt is 'Ruddy':
Now look is that 'Ruddy' color human ... geez man!!!
Now that's the color of 'Ruddy' its not white skin or Caucasoid as you like to call it.
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
