The "Tera-neter" tile is predynastic being found by British Egyptologist W.M. Flinders Petrie (1853-1942) in the early temple at Abydos underneath the dynastic temple. The figure is on a green glazed faience. Petrie, famously known as "The Father of Pre-history". Petrie, excavations at Nagada and Ballas in Upper Egypt nearly 100 years ago unearth nearly 2200 ancient graves. He wrote over a thousand books, articles and reviews reporting on his excavations and his finds.
Petrie, The Making of Egypt, 1939:
Page 68
"The Aunu People. Besides these types, belonging to the north and east, There is the aboriginal race of the Anu, or Aunu, people (written with three pillars), who became a part of the historic inhabitants. The subject ramifies too doubtfully if we include all single-pillar names, but looking for the Aunu, written with the three pillars, we find that they occupied Southern Egypt and Nubia, and the name is also applied in Sinai and Libya.
As to the Southern Egyptians, we have the most essential document, a portrait of a chief, Tera-neter, roughly modeled in relief in green glazed faience, found in the early temple at Abydos. Preceding his name, his address is given on this earliest of visiting cards, "Palace of the Aunu in Hermen city, Tera-neter." Hemen was the name of the god of Tuphium (Lanz., Dict, 544), 13 miles south of Luqsor. Erment, opposite to it, was the place of Aunu of the south, Aunu Menti. The next place in the south is Aunti (Gebeleyn), and beyond that Aunyt-seni (Esneh).
The chief peculiarity of the figure is the droop of the chin; this is caused by a slanting jaw with short ramus. The same type of jaw is seen in the ivory king from Abydos, and moreover, the Scorpion king who preceded Nar-mer.
These figures are, then, the precious portraits remaining of the native pre-Menite kings of the south, and they are of a type certainly different from the dynastic type of the square-jawed Nar-mer (Mena) and his follows.
The difference of the slope of jaw in the Aunu people was illustrated by our researchers in the cemetery at Tarkhan. In dealing with the remains, the jaws were all photographed in position, and they show two groups of the slope of the lower edge as 20 and 28 to the horizontal.
Now we can go a step further. On the big mace-head of the Scorpion king there are carved the standard figured. These emblems of Min and Set, with rekhyt plovers handing from them. The rekhytu people, however, were the special care of the dynastic race, protected by Aha and by Thetu. They were an organized rank ruled by a mayor in the Vth and VIth dynasties. The Scorpion king was, then, an enemy of the dynastic falcon, Horus.
As we find the Aunu strong in the south, but the rekhytu strong in the north, it seems that the rekhytu came in with the dynastic invasion, entering the Nile valley at Koptos. Those who went south were attacked by the Aunu, and those going north founded a base at Heliopolis (Syro-Egypt, 2).
The heads on pl. XXXVIII are arranges to show the difference of type between the Aunu; the dynastic people, the 1st dynasty in Sinai, the IInd dynasty, Khosekhem; the IIIrd dynasty, Sudany, Sanekht, and Zeser."
Page 5
"Some of the most obvious public works of the Ist dynasty were the carrying on of earlier undertakings. The great historical maces, and the irrigation works, had been developed under the Scorpion king of the Aunu, and both may have originated much earlier. Many vases and bowls (HR, xii, xvii, xix, xxxiv) bear his name."
Page 78
"Nar-mer Pallette. The principal monument of the first king Nar-mer (Mena) is the large slate palette (XL). This shows his capture of the "chief of the lake" (uo she), and the falcon holding 6,000 prisoners. Behind him is his body-servant," the rosette here, and elsewhere, being used for the king. The resemblance of the king on this palette to the sculptor's trial piece, or model shows that almost certainly to be the royal portrait. It was never part of a statute, being flat on the back and top; it seems to be a life-study as a model for future figures. It is accepted as the oldest portrait figure, by Michaelis, who notes the "astonishing acuteness of the racial type."
Page 102
"Dynasty II, Tombs. The IInd dynasty came to terms with the earlier Aunu people, and the first king took the name Hetep-sekhemui, "peace of the two powers." By the middle of the dynasty, the Aunu people began to control the rule, and Set appears on the royal name instead of Horus. By the end of the dynasty, the two scepters were "united in peace" by Kho-sekhemui".
Page 105
"Motives of Dynasty III. A breath of life came from the Sudan. The new dynasty was headed by Sa-nekht of Sudany type, and he gave a fresh impetus which was later continued by Zeser, Yet there was no new invention, but only a strengthening of the old style, without a different art.
The southern source was likewise the inspiration of the XIIth, the XVIIIth, the XXVth dynasties, and in a similar manner. The Sudany infusion continued in the upper classes, as seen in the head of Seker-kha-bau.
The development of stone building at the Step Pyramid of Zeser at Saqqara was based on earlier craft, the carvings of Dynasty I in wood and ivory. Small objects such as head-rests, had columns with convex fluting, and also with concave, in the IInd dynasty. The motives may have originated in the larger work and, later, been borrowed for it again. A similar translation from wood to stone is also to be found in the stone copies of wooden doorways, and of wooden doors represented as thrown open, at the entry of chambers in the temple of the Step Pyramid. In the IIIrd dynasty there was the achievement of using stone for wood, fixing the principles of art."--W.M. Flinders Petrie
French Egyptologist Abbe Émile Amélineau (1850-1916). He discovered the tombs of Ka, Den, and the Serpent King Djet (whose stela is at the Louvre).
Amélineau, is credited with the discovery of the Anu and their contribution to Egyptian civilization. It was Amélineau who designated the first black race to occupy Egypt as the Anu. He showed how they came slowly down the Nile and founded the cities of Esneh, Erment, Qouch and Heliopolis. The actual name is always written with three columns. He states that "All those cities have the characteristic symbol which serves to denote the name Anu." The original name for Heliopolis is "Annu". "Egypt's greatest Masters, Osiris, Hermes, Isis, and Horus all belonged to "the old race", the black Anu." (Chandler, 1999)
Citing evidence uncovered in Amélineau excavations, he concludes that:
"All those cities have the characteristic symbol which serves to denote the name Anu. It is also in an ethnic sense that we must read the term Anu applied to Osiris. As a matter of fact, in a chapter introducing hymns in honor of Ra and containing Chapter XV of the Book of the Dead, we read: "Hail to thee, O God Ani in the mountainous land of Antem! O great God, falcon of the double solar mountain!
If Osiris was a Nubian origin, although born at Thebes, it would be easy to understand why the stuggle between Set and Horus took place in Nubia. In any case, it is striking that the goddess Isis, according to the legend, has precisely the same skin color that Nubians always have, and that the god Osiris has what seems to me an ethnic epithet indicating his Nubian origin. Apparently this observation has never before been made".--Amélineau, Prolégomènes, pp. 124-125
"These Anu were agricultural people, raising cattle on a large scale along the Nile, shutting themselves up in walled cities for defensive purposes. To this people we can attribute, without fear of error, the most ancient Egyptian books, The Book of the Dead and the Texts of the Pyramids, consequently, all the myths or religious teachings. I would add almost all the philosophical systems then known and still called Egyptian. They evidently knew the crafts necessary for any civilization and were familiar with the tools those trades required. They knew how to use metals, at least elementary metals. They made the earliest attempts at writing, for the whole Egyptian tradition attributes this art to Thoth, the great Hermes an Anu like Osiris, who is called Onian in Chapter XV of The Book of the Dead and in the Texts of the Pyramids. Certainly the people already knew the principal arts; it left proof of this in the architecture of the tombs at Abydos, especially the tomb of Osiris and in those sepulchers objects have been found bearing unmistakable stamp of their origin, such as carved ivory, or a little head of a Nubian girl found in a tomb near that of Osiris, or the small wooden or ivory receptacles in the form of a feline head--all documents published in the first volumn of my Fouilles d'Abydos".
B.K. Chatterjee and G.D. Kumar, Comparative Study and Racial Analysis of the Human Remains of Indus Valley Civilization. (Calcutta, Sol Distributors, W. Neuman, 1965), p. 17:
"They compared the mean values of different cranial, facial, nasal, and orbital measurements of skulls related to various areas and periods of Egyptian civilization. Cranium material was analyzed from the pre-historic sites of Egypt Naqada II, Egypt Badari, plus Nubia Ariba, and were then compared with skulls from the Twelfth and Thirteenth Dynasties and Saqqara, (Old Kingdom). The archaeologist found that all of these skulls in respect to "long head, broad face, low orbit, and broad nasal aperture have the characteristic features of the Negroid type". References:
Amélineau, Émile. 1899. Nouvelles Fouilles d'Abydos, Paris: Ed. Leroux Amélineau, Émile. 1916. Prolégomènes à l'étude de la religion égyptienne, Paris: Ed. Leroux Diop, Cheikh Anta. 1974. The African Origin of Civilization, Myth or Reality, Lawrence Hill Books Petrie, W.M. Flinders. The Making of Egypt, London. New York, Sheldon Press; Macmillan Van Sertima, Ivan. 1999. Egypt revisited, Transaction Publishers, (page 117, Of Gods and Men: Egypt's Old Kingdom, Wayne B. Chandler)
[red] tri-nTr. The man's name . It can be rendered as Terinetjer (as one example) translated as “One who worships the gods.”
[blue] nxn.w which can be rendered as Nekhenw. It is believed that this is the name of an estate of which Terinetjer may have been in charge.
[green] mnH[.t] rendered Menhet ), and is the name of a town.
quote: The above translation from the web page is wrong on all counts, although the name of the individual in the figure standing at left comes close. His name (shaded in red) is transliterated as tri-nTr. It can be rendered as Terinetjer (as one example) and can be translated as “One who worships the gods.” This is his name, not a title. The translation of the glyphs I’ve shaded green are still the subject of dispute but the current transliteration is nxn.w (MacArthur 2010: 136), which can be rendered as Nekhenw. It is believed that this is the name of an estate of which Terinetjer may have been in charge (ibid); more on that presently.
The translation from the web page breaks the next set of glyphs into two lines: “of the god Seth / Net Annu-u: ‘of the Cities of the Annu People’s.’” This is incorrect. In my own image this is the area I’ve color-coded blue, and it’s simply a cadrat or square of glyphs all of which belong together when read. The correct translation is Menhet (transliterated mnH[.t]), and is the name of a town. It’s location is not known today but it was probably the nearest settlement of size to the estate called nxn.w (Nekhenw).
The word “Anu” or “Aunu” or other variations does not appear anywhere on this plaque. The web page to which I’ve been referring (see link in opening paragraph) quotes Petrie from his The Making of Egypt:
Émile Amélineau (1850 – 12 January 1915 at Châteaudun) was a French Coptologist, archaeologist and Egyptologist. His scholarly reputation was established as an editor of previously unpublished Coptic texts. But his reputation was destroyed by his work as a digger at Abydos, after Flinders Petrie re-excavated the site and showed how much destruction Amélineau had wrought.
But his work as an excavator has attracted strong criticism, not least from Flinders Petrie, the founder of modern scientific Egyptology. Amélineau dug at Abydos from 1894 to 1898. Petrie was awarded the concession to dig there by Gaston Maspero, head of the Antiquities Service, after Amélineau had declared that there was nothing more to be found there. Petrie was appalled at what had been done, and did not mince his words. He wrote:
"During four years there had been the scandal of Amelineau's work at the Royal Tombs of Abydos. He had been given a concession to work there for five years; no plans were kept (a few incorrect ones were made later), there was no record of where things were found, no useful publication. He boasted that he had reduced to chips the pieces of stone vases which he did not care to remove, and burnt up the remains of the woodwork of the 1st dynasty in his kitchen.
Jane A. Hill has said that "Amelineau was not an archaeologist and basically plundered the cemetery in search of goods he could sell to antiquities collectors."
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I'm not understanding where the writer is assuming he was ruling for an estate and why he pushes his assumption as if it is a fact; especially not providing any evidence which would suggest the theory in the first place.
Secondly, in his attempt to undermine Africentric methods of research, which he has no clue as we can tell, he makes a childish argument and hypothesis that The way Terinetjer appears on the plaque may be nothing more than a stylistic preference or a lack of skill, for that matter. This in regards to the apparent African features of the the figure in question. This totally ignores the details portrayed by the Egyptians in all time periods in the art. If the features weren't important, then you would have seen something to the like of European or Semitic style deities and people depicted as Egyptians in the art. If the "details" didn't matter, only the "name", you would not have such features as the obvious Afro of the figure and even the code-piece worn by many Batwa who used to dominate the landscape of Africa. (you can also see them on Australian aboriginals).
There is so much that can be said about this article, but it's not even worth the time. If he wanted to be more accurate, he should have addressed all of the instances of anu as argued by Petrie. I'd also like to see what glyphs he is using to derive Nekhen. A major draw-back to his analysis is that he doesn't breakdown or examine the glyphs. Without this analysis, he is talking hot air. A scholar always examines the glyphs.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I'm not understanding where the writer is assuming he was ruling for an estate and why he pushes his assumption as if it is a fact; especially not providing any evidence which would suggest the theory in the first place.
Secondly, in his attempt to undermine Africentric methods of research, which he has no clue as we can tell, he makes a childish argument and hypothesis that The way Terinetjer appears on the plaque may be nothing more than a stylistic preference or a lack of skill, for that matter. This in regards to the apparent African features of the the figure in question. This totally ignores the details portrayed by the Egyptians in all time periods in the art. If the features weren't important, then you would have seen something to the like of European or Semitic style deities and people depicted as Egyptians in the art. If the "details" didn't matter, only the "name", you would not have such features as the obvious Afro of the figure and even the code-piece worn by many Batwa who used to dominate the landscape of Africa. (you can also see them on Australian aboriginals).
There is so much that can be said about this article, but it's not even worth the time. If he wanted to be more accurate, he should have addressed all of the instances of anu as argued by Petrie. I'd also like to see what glyphs he is using to derive Nekhen.
The inventor of the ANU theory is the white Frenchman Emile Amélineau
Amélineau, Émile. 1899. Nouvelles Fouilles d'Abydos, Paris: Ed. Leroux Amélineau, Émile. 1916. Prolégomènes à l'étude de la religion égyptienne, Paris: Ed. Leroux
Petrie picked up the theory around 1939. He is also known for being a proponent of the Dynastic Race theory.
However currrent Egyptology texts by written by professional Egyptologists with degrees in Egyptology don't even mention the Anu theory. Yet some of these same books do talk about African morphology of the ancient Egyptians
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: A major draw-back to his analysis is that he doesn't breakdown or examine the glyphs. Without this analysis, he is talking hot air. A scholar always examines the glyphs.
He examined the glyphs in the illustration at the top of the thread from Petrie's book and determined each translation of each glyph to be incorrect. This is not necessarily the fault of Petrie since more accurate translations of many Heiroglyphs have been made since his time. translation however was also not Petrie's specialty and Amélineau who invented the theory was a specialist in Coptic
Anybody can say "he doesn't breakdown the glyphs properly" but it means little unless you can go into detail why the translation in the Petrie book is more correct that the recent critique of it post at bottom of the initial post
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
What he didn't do was actually breakdown the glyphs. He made some highlights and then he gave his interpretation of the word. He doesn't demonstrate how each glyph is to be interpreted. This is why I asked, for instance, about /nxn.w/. What glyph is he using to render /nx/? What is the Gardiner code for it and can he give us some other words using this glyph to reinforce the pronunciation.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: What he didn't do was actually breakdown the glyphs. He made some highlights and then he gave his interpretation of the word. He doesn't demonstrate how each glyph is to be interpreted. This is why I asked, for instance, about /nxn.w/. What glyph is he using to render /nx/? What is the Gardiner code for it and can he give us some other words using this glyph to reinforce the pronunciation.
Do you have the abilites to make an attempt at doing it employing some post Budge resources?
Hieroglyph dictionary by Mark Vygus Mark Vygus has updated his hieroglyph dictionary (March 2009) and has made it freely available to people who would like a copy. Many thanks Mark, you're a star. It is a fabulous piece of work with a helpful introduction and 25000 dictionary entries.
I know how to read /mdw nTr/. This is why I am perplexed at his rendering of the glyphs. For instance, the first row is clearly the glyph /Hwt/ (Gardiner sign O6) followed by the 3 plural strokes. It can also be rendered /Htt/. How he is getting /mnH.t/ is confusing. What glyphs is he rendering as /mn/? There are only 3 signs that I know of with this root: Gardiner signs T1, Y5 and O25. No version of /mnH/ or /mnHt/ can I find looking like ANY of the glyphs shown above. He would have to render the first three strokes as the O25 glyph which can be rendered /txn/ or /mn/. But I'd have to see some predynastic renderings of O25 to make a match. There is a rendering of txnwy "a pair of obelisks" [ noun - arch. ] O25 - O25 - O25 where the O25 glyph is rendered three times.
So before I make a judgement, I'd like to know how he is rendering the glyphs, what are his sources for the glyphs and their phonetic values?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^ how are you goign to get "Anu people" out of Gardiner before we even get to this other guy's translation. That is the first problem. Also check glyph for Seth
Posted by Brada-Anansi (Member # 16371) on :
Hi Asar Imhotep while you are here could you please take a look at any possible connection of the Mentu named kings,Mentu Setet the ethnic group and Mentu the God..
quote:Like I thought the Mentu named Kings are connected to the Mentu Nu Setet for Min is the same as Mentu or Montu their ethnic name,in others words the Mentu-Setet were ruling Kemet in the 11th dynasty.
^^^^ how are you goign to get "Anu people" out of Gardiner before we even get to this other guy's translation. That is the first problem. Also check glyph for Seth
I want to take a critical look at this Anu theory and also the Khent-Hen-Nefer as meaning Order of the Founders.
Right now I can say the glyphs in question and in context should read from right to left (into the face of the staff wielding man) except the place names seem to have their determinative in front instead of in back.
Anyway I will say the above portion is mH iunu:nwt (mehh anu niwt - Heliopolis) because the best I can make of the glyph before nwt looks most like three iun pillars to me.
Alternately, it could be the sign for estate/nome/district. This relic presents difficulties due to its age assuming it is authentic.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
Right now I can say the glyphs in question and in context should read from right to left (into the face of the staff wielding man) except the place names seem to have their determinative in front instead of in back.
Anyway I will say the above portion is mH iunu:nwt (mehh anu niwt - Heliopolis) because the best I can make of the glyph before nwt looks most like three iun pillars to me.
Alternately, it could be the sign for estate/nome/district. This relic presents difficulties due to its age assuming it is authentic. [/QB]
Note in the intital thread after the rebuttal illustrations I had some copy errors in the color key. But in the text from the blog rebuttal it said:
"color-coded blue, and it’s simply a cadrat or square of glyphs all of which belong together when read. The correct translation is Menhet (transliterated mnH[.t]), and is the name of a town."
you say
mehh anu niwt = Heliopolis
Seemingly similar he said "Menhet"
Budge said:
Isis was called Ament, in Thebes,
Menhet, in Heliopolis
renpet, In Memphis
and a long list of other names different locations
(Although the blogger calls Menhet "a name of a town" without being specific to a city)
How you or he arrived at that I don't know either of your methods. (using Gardiner - what codes? )
But while the following is the actual glyph for Heliopolis....
.... nevertheless according to Budge Menhet is the name for Isis in Heliopolis so it's Heliopolis related.
Heliopolis (Greek) = Iunu in Egyptian
Iunu = pillar
An = pillar
Note that a pillar is used in combination with other gylphs and doesn't always refers specifically to Heliopolis
However this blue section seems to be Menhet and it seems to indeed relate to Heliopolis (Iunu)
Petrie's translation of this same blue portion is
^^^ also notice how the groupings are different above we have
1 2 3 4
here we have 2 and 3 looked on as only 2
1 2 3
What do we have here? An image of a dwarf proportioned man in who seems to be related to Heliopolis Where is the artifact located? I don't know If this person was a real person from Heliopolis can we say based on the glyphs he is intended to be the prototypical man of Heliopolis? is there any dating on this object to assume it's predynastic? is it in a museum? I don't know
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Years before Petrie wrote about the Anu in making of Egypt 1939 Émile Amélineau is credited with the discovery of the Anu supposedly mentioned in the following books anybody good with French?
Amélineau, Émile. 1916. Prolégomènes à l'étude de la religion égyptienne, Paris: Ed. Leroux
^^^^ I've tried the word "Anu" and similar spellings "Aunu" "Annu" in searches but didn't come up with anything
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
On that second row is what's causing all of the problem. To me that glyph looks like the /H/ [V28]sound, with no /m-/ prefix. I am wondering if this is an old way of saying the word:
/iHy/ "a name of Seth, Apophis ?" [ noun - div. ] M17 - V28 - M17 - M17 - I3C
If so, this would explain the interpretation of figure to the right of this glyph as "Set." Another variation is:
/hy/ "epithet of Seth" O4 - M17 - M17 - E148F
I am trying to look for variations of the alleged /annu/ glyphs shown above. So far they don't look like the glyphs for /iwnw/. I am trying to see how does one explain the two blocks under the first glyph in each of the three columns? Is the first glyph the [W24] /nu/ glyph?
And trying to find representations for /mnHt/ in the dictionaries as well which supports his interpretation and so far I am not finding it.
mnHt "goddess of papyrus scepter" [Meeks (?): AL 781742] mnHt "tribute gift" [Wb II S 84] mnht "milk jug" [ noun - furn. ] Y5 - N35 - O4 - X1 - W22 - Z2 mnHt gift, tribute, offering [ noun ] Y5 - N35 - V28 - X1 - U33 - M17 - M2 - Z2
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ please indicate exactly which translation in the initial post you are making remarks about. We have the Petrie and the Rebuttal. I assume you are talking about Petrie cause you mentioned Seth.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
^^^ please indicate exactly which translation in the initial post you are making remarks about. We have the Petrie and the Rebuttal. I assume you are talking about Petrie cause you mentioned Seth. That is the first illustration in the intial thread at top
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
(separated images):
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
I would suggest that one start off with transcribing the Egyptian names of things using the transliteration method. Too many people adding vowels which distorts the pronunciation.
The name is /mnTw/ and we have in Egyptian:
/mnTw/ "The God mnTw" /mnTw/ "Bedouin" /mntw/ "they" (suffix pronoun). /mnTw/ "star" [Wb II S 92] /mnTw/ "tribes living in NE Egypt" [Wb II S 92]
The only ethnic group I am seeing that the dictionaries are associating it with are the Bedouins.
Now, it is not uncommon for people to take on the name of a revered ancestor. For instance, Dr. Mubabinge Bilolo (linguist, Egyptologist, philosopher) is a prince in his native Kasai region in Congo. He is the prince of the ciNema/Tshinema nome, princedom of Kabiye, kingdom of Nkole Matamba, alias Bashila-nga, and river Luluwa in Kinshasa. The word Bashila is cognate in Egyptian as /wsr/ or /wsjr/ "Osiris/Wasar."
It is his totem. This is their royal and founding ancestor. Dr. Bilolo's ethnic group is named Luba-Mushianga (Mushil-Anga) which is part of a greater Bakwa-Mushilu "People Mushilu," a royal lineage or BaShilanga Washilanga (Egyptian /wsr-anx/). All Luba lines when they invoke their "totem" say Bashila/Washila/Bajil. So when Bilolo talks about he is from the Bashilanga dynasty of Kalamba Mukenge (a-aTunsele), one can get an idea of what he means. His ancestor is Mfumu Cishila or Cijila (wsr.t): the creator of the Bashilanga.
We should also note that the word Nkole in Nkole Matamba is the Egyptian /Hrw/.
I am saying all of this to say that you have to study African kinship naming methods to really have a model to support your thesis. Always transliterate the glyphs exactly so when you're doing comparative study you can accurately make comparisons. The key is finding any living /mnTw/ lineages in modern times and see if we can make some comparisons to see if it adds insight into Egyptian naming practices.
But in theory, the attaching the "God" (the ancestor) to the name to mark the lineage is a typical African thing. Find the living tradition and you are well on your way. This is something I have to investigate further before I can add on to what you're saying.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Hi Asar Imhotep while you are here could you please take a look at any possible connection of the Mentu named kings,Mentu Setet the ethnic group and Mentu the God..
quote:Like I thought the Mentu named Kings are connected to the Mentu Nu Setet for Min is the same as Mentu or Montu their ethnic name,in others words the Mentu-Setet were ruling Kemet in the 11th dynasty.
Most of your commentary is inane because you don't read hieroglyphics and so lack understanding of for instance forming plurals or the end sound of a plural and that's why you don't get that 3 pillars has the sound anu.
Anyway
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: (separated images):
Hwt
w
H
m (if in fact that is an owl - see the actual stone)
iwnw (plural of iwn - i.e., an & anu)
niwt
nTr
[ti] t - r
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
OK, reading the glyphs left to right as the determinatives dictate. I was thrown off by nTr and forgot AEs never let it be last.
Still not satisfied but this is where I'm at now, using middle Egyptian on a pre-Old Kingdom relic which presents anomalies in glyph orientation.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
Right now I can say the glyphs in question and in context should read from right to left (into the face of the staff wielding man) except the place names seem to have their determinative in front instead of in back.
Anyway I will say the above portion is mH iunu:nwt (mehh anu niwt - Heliopolis) because the best I can make of the glyph before nwt looks most like three iun pillars to me.
Alternately, it could be the sign for estate/nome/district. This relic presents difficulties due to its age assuming it is authentic.
O6 Ideogram for (large) building (achwt) abbreviation for eight in "quarry" (respects)
___________ Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
Also, the staff in hand man is itself a glyph.
do you have any book or article quotes citing another example of this?
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
You did it again.
If you use my **** don't chop it up and leave important **** out.
Look at Gardiners list for MEN.
Restore 0 DIGNITARY
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: You did it again.
If you use my **** don't chop it up and leave important **** out.
Look at Gardiners list for MEN.
Restore 0 DIGNITARY
You have dones ome nice translation work here. However you are also on to an alternative theory now that a figure's staff is itself a hieroglyph. You have not provided precedence for that as requested by lioness productions. That element is highly speculative at this point and doesn't correspond to Petrie's translation or the blogger's translation.
Also your translation is provisional I am awaiting further commentary of Asar Imhotep
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LIONESS PRODUCTIONS CANNOT ENDORSE HIGH SPECULATION AS FACT
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you,
Lioness Productions
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
No
What you have not done is look where I told you to.
Stop being lazy and simply go look it up.
AE art is thoroughly imbued in hieroglyphic symbolism.
And really who the **** are you to pass a final say so.
You ought to be glad I'm taking time to hint you where you can educate yourself just a little bit.
Bottomline: respect my intellectual property by not distorting it
