quote:This makes them assume what they do.
The second most frequent haplogroup was J, which has been postulated to have a Middle Eastern origin [33]. Both J sub-branches, J-M267 and J-M172, were observed in North Africans.
quote:--G. Ferri et al. / Forensic Science International: Genetics Supplement Series 1 (2008) 203–205
"Phylogeographic analysis points to either a Middle East or East African origin"
quote:--Chiara Batini † et al.
Sub-Saharan African Y chromosome diversity is represented by five main haplogroups (hgs): A, B, E, J, and R (Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002; Tishkoff et al. 2007).
Hgs J and R are geographically restricted to eastern and central Africa, respectively, whereas hg E shows a wider continental distribution (see also Berniell-Lee et al. 2009; Cruciani et al. 2010).
[...]
All the samples included here were genotyped for ten STRs: DYS19, DYS389-I, DYS389-II (the allele reported in supplementary table S1, Supplementary Material online, has been obtained by subtracting the DYS389-I allele), DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, and DYS439. A subset of the samples was tested for an additional five loci (DYS448, DYS456, DYS458 , DYS635, and Y-GATA-H4). In the statistical analyses, specific loci (DYS385, DYS389-II, DYS390, DYS448, and DYS635) were excluded due to allelic homoplasy as reported in the NIST Y-STR Fact Sheets (see Web resources in Acknowledgments). Following this, eight STR loci were used in both phylogeographic and intralineage analyses in order to maintain broad population coverage.
[...]
The starting set of markers comprised the 8 STRs used for Network analysis and diversity estimates and was extended to 11 by including DYS456, DYS458 , and YGATA-H4 loci. Due to multistep correction, different sets of STRs were used (supplementary table S7, Supplementary Material online), and the average mutation rate was estimated using locus-specific values (YHRD, release33; Willuweit et al. 2007).
quote:That's sad, and you sure made some valid points.
Originally posted by Swenet:
SonofRa
What happens in Vegas is supposed to stay in
Vegas--at least until everyone else on facebook
has seen it. I only posted this little over an
hour ago. What happens to the anticipation of
logging into the FB group to see new posts when
the exclusive things that are posted there are
already leaked onto ES?
I don't mind if someone double posts his/her own
FB posts on ES, but not my posts please. After he
repeatedly shitted on us and left ES to rot, I
don't feel anything for contributing to this site
owner's bank account or website, either directly
or indirectly.
quote:because in that study they are talking about a specific allelic varient "so far overlapping M267" and they said Mid East data was "scanty" so "additional data was need to clarify" Middle East or East African origin of this varient allele.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
.
Unfortunately they did not include these studies in "their observations". Such missed opportunity.
[QUOTE] "Phylogeographic analysis points to either a Middle East or East African origin "
quote:What this is saying is that in Africa Hg J is found only in Eastern Africa and in Africa R is only found in Central Africa.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
[QUOTE] Sub-Saharan African Y chromosome diversity is represented by five main haplogroups (hgs): A, B, E, J, and R (Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002; Tishkoff et al. 2007).
Hgs J and R are geographically restricted to eastern and central Africa, respectively, whereas hg E shows a wider continental distribution (see also Berniell-Lee et al. 2009; Cruciani et al. 2010).
[...]
quote:Yep, and what is the conclusion of these alleles and locus?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:because in that study they are talking about a specific allelic varient "so far overlapping M267" and they said Mid East data was "scanty" so "additional data was need to clarify" Middle East or East African origin of this varient allele.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
.
Unfortunately they did not include these studies in "their observations". Such missed opportunity.
[QUOTE] "Phylogeographic analysis points to either a Middle East or East African origin "
quote:You've scanted the post, which confuses the argument.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:What this is saying is that in Africa Hg J is found only in Eastern Africa and in Africa R is only found in Central Africa.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
[QUOTE] Sub-Saharan African Y chromosome diversity is represented by five main haplogroups (hgs): A, B, E, J, and R (Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002; Tishkoff et al. 2007).
Hgs J and R are geographically restricted to eastern and central Africa, respectively, whereas hg E shows a wider continental distribution (see also Berniell-Lee et al. 2009; Cruciani et al. 2010).
[...]
So what
quote:Here is where V88 is rooted.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:because in that study they are talking about a specific allelic varient "so far overlapping M267" and they said Mid East data was "scanty" so "additional data was need to clarify" Middle East or East African origin of this varient allele.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
.
Unfortunately they did not include these studies in "their observations". Such missed opportunity.
[QUOTE] "Phylogeographic analysis points to either a Middle East or East African origin "
Therefore you can't use this short study to prove origin of this allele varient because they don't know if it's Mid East or East African
V88 for instance is more frequent in Africa but that doesn't mean R1 orignates in Africa or that the R in some North African bebers (which the author failed to mention-beyond the restriction)
is not V88
{Asni,Sened, Siwa R)
Coudray-
quote:--Fulvio Cruciani et al (2011)
quote:
The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R ) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites). To retain the information from the reference MSY tree13 as much as possible, we named this clade A1a-T (Figure 1). Within A1a-T, the transversion V221 separates A1a from a monophyletic clade (called A2-T) consisting of three branches: A2, A3, and BT, the latter being supported by ten mutations (Figure 1).
quote:We are discussing the article,
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Son of Ra, Troll Patrol doesn't want to discuss the content of the article. He doesn't like it so he wants me to go off into a side track of other article snippets he likes better which he already posted in my threads
code:Additional info:
SNP Location Haplogroup Mutations
M5 M C > T
M9 K, KR C > G
M11 L A > G
M45 P, PR G > A
M69 H T > C
M89 F, FR C > T
M96 E G > C
M122 O3 T > C
M168 CR C > T
M170 I A > C
M174 D T > C
M175 O T > A
M20 G G > T
M207 R A > G
M214 NO T > C
M304 J A > C
M343 R1b C > A
P36 Q G > T
SRY10831.1 BR A > G
quote:
--Haplogroups CT and CF: Everyone who doesn't belong to Haplogroup A or B belongs to the super-group CT, which is defined by mutations M168 and M294. This is the branch of humanity that first left Africa, although the mutation that led to CT probably happened in Africa about 50,000 - 60,000 years ago, in a man from East Africa, who's been called the "Eurasian Adam", since his descendents include all Eurasian and Asian people today. Haplogroup CT was probably the group involved in the early migration out of Africa, which spread along the southern coast of the Arabian peninsula, Iran, Pakistan, India, and all the way to southeast Asia. Here are some maps showing these early migrations. As you can see, the dates calculated from the genetic evidence correspond only roughly to dates determined by the archeological evidence. These are not yet exact sciences in terms of dating, so we have to reckon with some degree of uncertainty. Haplogroup CF diverged soon after, also in Africa, and is defined by mutation P143. Both super-groups CT and CF are found all over the world, including the Americas.
quote:--by Gábor Balogh
Haplogroup CT (M168): Time of Emergence: 70,000 BP, 2800 generations ago beginning of the Last Glacial Period Place of Origin: The African Rift Valleymore
quote:It was you who started about Hg R, not me. Remember?
Originally posted by the lioness,:
You should be talking about Hgs discussed in the topic article not trying to derail the thread
Anyway I already covered Central African R in another thread
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008630
I won't discuss that here.
Also the OP says
"We estimate from the paternal lineages that most North Africans emerged ~15,000 years ago "
you should make yourself useful and post the other charts and table from the OP article. I cant do everything around here
quote:
The first component also shows clustering of the Europeans characterized by R*-M207
quote:
Note that hgR2 (R-M124) is reported in Figure 1, because it was detected in the Sephardic Jewish sample (Table S1, available online), but was not typed in the Iberian samples, because all chromosomes derived for M207 (hgR) were also derived for M173 (hgR1).
quote:Out of curiosity, who are you referring to??
Originally posted by Swenet:
I don't mind if someone double posts his/her own
FB posts on ES, but not my posts please. After he
repeatedly shitted on us and left ES to rot, I
don't feel anything for contributing to this site
owner's bank account or website, either directly
or indirectly.
quote:Yes, typical lyinass tactic of obfuscation. Too bad for her people can READ for themselves.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
You(lyinass)'ve scanted the post, which confuses the argument.
The study accumulates alleles and locus. Your sneaky ass, removed it. Because this is the bear essential.
DYS458
The study is called;
Signatures of the Preagricultural Peopling Processes in Sub-Saharan Africa as Revealed by the Phylogeography of Early Y Chromosome Lineages
quote:So this is a BIG what! Because hg R like hg J is presumed to have a Eurasian origin. After all, the R clade is not only associated with Central Asians but especially Europeans, yet the subtypes found in Central Africa are unique and have NOTHING to do with Europeans. Thus the implications should be quite clear for J in East Africa. As I've been stating ad-naseum the J types found in East Africa (both J1 and J*) have NOTHING to do with 'Arabs' either Islamic or pre-Islamic because their presence in Africa predates even Proto-Semitic as Blench et al. and others have shown Proto-Semitic to have arisen in the early Bronze Age.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:What this is saying is that in Africa Hg J is found only in Eastern Africa and in Africa R is only found in Central Africa.
Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor:
quote:
Sub-Saharan African Y chromosome diversity is represented by five main haplogroups (hgs): A, B, E, J, and R (Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002; Tishkoff et al. 2007).
Hgs J and R are geographically restricted to eastern and central Africa, respectively, whereas hg E shows a wider continental distribution (see also Berniell-Lee et al. 2009; Cruciani et al. 2010).
[...]
So what? [/QB]