quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
very simple question....Which human population is the most genetically distinct from SSA?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

So what does your method reveal about say

* East Africa vs Tigara
or
* Pygmy vs EuroAmerican ?

By your method is Jebel Sahaba closer to
* East Africa
or
* West Africa?

What is the meaning of branches on the same limb?

What is being measured as the distance between populations?

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
The way to determine the distance bewteen two populations on the above dendogram is to

start at the name of the first populaltion.

Then you follow the line path eminating from that name it like a mouse in a maze to the second popualation.

You can move in any direction along the path, up, down, backwards or forwards, whatever is the shortest distance from one population to the next.

Since the scale of this chart is horizontal you only record the distances of the horizontal movements.

When you put these horizontal segments together and measure them in total, that is the distance bewteen two populations

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I think the question is not simple and I wonder if beyoku is even sure of the answer

---

mtDNA Haplogroup predicting motifs


L3f 16209C 16223T 16311C
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
I didn't answer Beyoku because that's just a way for him to avoid answering my argumentations against his hamitic race myth points by points. Making exchanges go in circles. He knows I am right so he tries to divert the attention away with stupid questions.

As long as Beyoku and Swenet don't provide counter argumentation points by points from my post below. They implicitely admit I am right, which they already did. I'm just happy to have thoroughly debunked these 2 undercover racists for everyone to see:

Notice how I even put up a nice picture to explain part of my argumentation to Beyoku (and Swenet) visually.

@ES readers

In his quest to prove the racist hamitic race myth, Swenet (and Beyoku) is trying to tell us above that East Africans/Horn Africans are closer to Eurasian populations carrying the MtDNA haplogroups M and N than West African populations even at the moment of the OOA migrations. So before any back migrations of M and N MtDNA carriers in the last 3000 years (ethio-semitic speakers). He's wrong on so many level that I don't know where to start. So basically, for example he tries to say that unadmixed indigenous Somali, are closer genetically to Eurasian than West Africans.

For that he tries to use the fact that the Eurasian mtDNA M and N haplogroups are descendants of the basal L3 haplogroups. But this is wrong on so many levels.

First, the L3 haplogroups is common to almost all African populations, including East and West Africans. For example, using the numbers from the study called Complex Genetic History of East African Human Populations by Hirbo (2011) . We can see that both East and West Africans carry the African L3 haplogroups (excluding Eurasian M, N of course). For example, Yoruba got 45.45% of L3, while Somali 44.68% of L3.


Yoruba L3 45.45% (12.12+6.06+21.21+6.06)
Somali L3 44.68% (7.41+3.74+7.47+11.11+3.74+3.74+7.47)


Second, OOA migrants, future non-Africans, current Eurasian M and N carriers are not descendant of any East African L3 haplogroups (like L3i, L3j, L3k, etc). They are descendant of the BASAL L3 mtDNA haplogroup, which is common to almost all African populations including East and West Africans.

Third, as mentioned above, there's a 40-60kya gaps between East African populations and the back migration of Eurasian populations carrying M and N haplogroups into Eastern Africa. More than enough time for each of those people to become their own people with their own genetic profile, physiology and history.

Fourth, East Africans populations are not only composed of the haploroup L3 but also L0, L1, L2, etc mtDNA haplogroups. People carrying those haplogroups admixed with each others for several years after the OOA migrations of the M and N hg carriers. Around 62 000 years!!!

Fifth, last but not the least. Those 4 points above are more than enough to make my point but Swenet will come back in his desperate attempt to prove the hamitic race myth to say that East and West Africans don't have the same L3 haplogroups. For example, and this part is true, Horn Africans carry the mtDNA haplogroups L3i, L3x, but not West Africans, while West Africans carry the L3e haplogroups but not Horn Africans (Note: at the same time, east and west Africans share many haplogroups such as L2a, L3f, L3d, etc as E-P2 carriers). So in a stupid manner, he will try to say that this make somehow Horn Africans not so much related to other Africans like West Africans than to the basal L3 haplogroups and thus, in a ridiculous logic, Eurasians.

But this is false too!

Yes, Horn Africans are carry by L3i, L3x haplogroups while West Africans carry the L3e haplogroups. But the L3i, L3x and L3e haplogroups are united by the L3eikx haplogroups. One of the common grandmother of East and West Africans!!

You can see it here, if you take the time:
http://www.phylotree.org/tree/subtree_L3.htm


The same thing can be said about the common East and West African L3bf grandmother and L3cd grandmother! (Note: L3a and L3h are absent in many Horn African populations like Somali, Afar, Beja, etc, so they can't be used to prove the hamitic race myth).

Visual aid for Beyoku:



^^^This last point, the fifth, will leave Swenet sulking for weeks. All those points hurt his retarded racist ass. They also hurt Beyoku.

So contrary to what Swenet and Beyoku try to promote with their racist hamitic race myth. OOA/Eurasian populations are not particularly closer to modern East African populations like Horn Africans, beside through the back migrations of non-African populations into the Eastern African region starting around 3000 years ago by future ethiosemitic speakers carrying the mtDNA M and N haplogroups, compared to most other African populations like West Africans.
 

---

Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
 
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.
 

---

Posted by Child Of The KING (Member # 9422) on :
 
Whats with all this bickering???

Is EGOS THAT HUGE that people can't just refute each others data without getting personal??

I mean I have learned nothing but how to rub each others egos and feel the best way to educate is by speaking over each other.

I'm getting dizzy just reading these things...Whats the point??

Xyyman at least posts Hard data and tries to breakdown the data. Ish Gebor posts the studies. Learn from these guys people and lionee why you dragging Beyokus post and creating a thread out of it and Not Answering Tukulers post???
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:

Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
@troll patrol.
Are you programed to make a post after lioness on every thread? It's like you are chasing her like a lost puppy.

---

stop trying to cause trouble, his post came after Trollkillah

I made this thread because I thought this is an interesting question

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:

Which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

---

I challenge anybody including you to try to answer that

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amum-RA

IIRC and not trying to start anything, but I thought I tried to inform to you that Horners being genetically closer to Eurasians compared to other Africans doesn't necessary mean they're heavily admixed? Greeks are closer to Africans compared to other Europeans, but are Greeks heavily admixed?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

---

quote:

---

For many of the individuals for which we have obtained DNA, we also collected phenotype data for traits likely to play a role in adaptation, some of which demonstrate a complex pattern of inheritance and are likely influenced by multiple loci and environmental factors. In addition to case/control analyses of variation at candidate genes, we are using whole-genome association studies to identify novel genes that are associated with these traits. Together with collaborators, we are also developing methods for mapping complex traits (including disease) in highly structured African populations.

---

quote:

---

A number of novel genetic and phenotypic adaptations have also evolved in Africans in response to dramatic variation in environment, diet, and exposure to infectious disease across the continent.

---

quote:

---

Although the study's main focus was on Africa, Tishkoff and her colleagues studied DNA markers from around the planet, identifying 14 "ancestral clusters" for all of humanity. Nine of those clusters are in Africa. "You're seeing more diversity in one continent than across the globe," Tishkoff said.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans. It can't be clearer than this.

---

quote:

---

This branching pattern, along with the geographical distribution of the major clades A, B, and CT, has been interpreted as supporting an African origin for anatomically modern humans,10 with Khoisan from south Africa and Ethiopians from east Africa sharing the deepest lineages of the phylogeny.15 and 16

[...]

The deepest branching separates A1b from a monophyletic clade whose members (A1a, A2, A3, B, C, and R) all share seven mutually reinforcing derived mutations (five transitions and two transversions, all at non-CpG sites).





These chromosomes belong to a clade (haplogroup BT) in which chromosomes C and R share a common ancestor (Figure 2).

---

quote:

---

As we'll see, other genetic data corroborates the mitochondrial results, placing the root of the human family tree - our most recent common ancestor- in Africa within the past few hundred thousand years. Consistent with this result, all of the genetic data shows the greatest number of polymorphisms in Africa - there is simply far more variation in that continent than anywhere else. You are more likely to sample extremely divergent genetic lineages within a single African village than you are in whole of the rest of the world. The majority of the genetic polymorphisms found in our species are found uniquely in Africans - Europeans, Asians and Native Americans carry only a small sample of the extraordinary diversity that can be found in any African village.

Why does diversity indicate greater age? Thinking back to our hypothetical Provencal village, why do the bouillabaisse recipes change? Because in each generation, a daughter decides to modify her soup in a minor way. Over time, these small variations add up to an extraordinary amount of diversity in the village's kitchens. And - critically - the longer the village has been accumulating these changes, the more diverse it is. It is like a clock, ticking away in units of rosemary and thyme - the longer it has been ticking, the more differences we see. It is the same phenomenon Emile Zuckerkandl noted in his proteins - more time equals more change. So, when we see greater genetic diversity in a particular population, we can infer that the population is older - and this makes Africa the oldest of all.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:


Pacific Islanders and Southeast Asian Negritos???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
Then why are Horners genetically closer to Eurasians compared to "MOST" Africans.

---

Because of the back migration of Eurasian people in East Africa in the last 3000 years.


 

---

Posted by Son of Ra (Member # 20401) on :
 
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians? Not denying that some horners have Eurasian admixture.

Again correct me if I'm wrong.
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians?

---

Compared to most other Africans like West Africans, yes.

---

Okay.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Amun-Ra you're wrong
Trollkillah teaches that the T/C split occured long before humans left Africa
therefore all haplogroups originated inside of Africa


Vol I. Myth of the "Non-African" Haplogroup
ES Uber club
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
DNA Tribes Genetic Relationships in Africa 2009





 

---

Posted by beyoku (Member # 14524) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
@Son of Ra
@Child Of The KING
@ES readers

I think I made it pretty clear that Europeans (or Eurasians) are not subset of East African people but a subset of African people period!!!\

Eurasians are descendants of the Y-DNA CT haplogroup and the MtDNA L3 haplogroup common to both East and West Africans!!

---

"Africans" from WHERE? (East Africa)...exactly.
WHERE do the L3 lineages from West Africans come from....East Africa.........Exactly.

You are making a mistake in thinking that Y-dna and mtDNA are the ONLY things that can explain substructure in Africa.

All African are NOT the same. If you believe recent Admixture accounts for the position of Horn Africans in relation to Eurasians then this is also the case for Youruba, Mbuti, Mandinka and Dinka:



You are getting your ideas directly out of the Euroclown playbook and have the gall to accuse someone else are bringing up "Hamites".

Take a hard look at that image. Notice the NATURAL progression of Africans in a Cline. Where do you think the AFRICAN ancestry of Ethiopians would sit? What about the African ancestry of Sudanese?....or the African specific ancestry of Egyptians? Each population would be closer and Closer to Eurasians based simply on GEOGRAPHY...........and not simply ANY Eurasians. Not the Japanese....They would be closer to whatever Eurasians are right outside the continent.

You are a clown. I remember it was Dienekes that was using the Khoisan and the base of African ancestry to show that all SSA...even the Yoruba were "mixed". You fools are two peas in a pod.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Son of Ra (Member # 20401) on :
 
I never took anything Dienekes said seriously. He isn't a geneticist nor anthropologist.
 

---

Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
^^^ The only clown is you Beyoku
 

---

Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Amun-Ra you're wrong
Trollkillah teaches that the T/C split occured long before humans left Africa
therefore all haplogroups originated inside of Africa


Vol I. Myth of the "Non-African" Haplogroup
ES Uber club

---

quote:

---

Haplogroup L1b roots deeply in the human mtDNA phylogeny and has the characteristic motif 16126, 16187, 16189, 16223, 16264, 16270, 116278, 16311.

[...]

---

quote:

---

http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/1077329/7908829/mmc2.xls


http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/L0k_genbank_sequences.htm


http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v56/n9/extref/jhg201171x2.xls


C16223T – L0b – 16223C, L0d1a – 16223C, L0k2 – 16223C, L1c1a1 – 16223C, L2d – 16223C, L3x2a – 16223C, L3e2b – 16223C, M1a3b – 16223C, M7c3 – 16223C, N21 – 16223C, Q1a – 16223C, R – 16223C, R2a – 16223C, U4a2b – 16223T, X2h – 16223C, D4c1a – 16223C, D4g2a1 – 16223C, D5c2 – 16223C, B5b1b – 16223T,

C12705T – R- 12705C.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of Ra:
@Amun

Corrext me if I am wrong. So are you implying that the connection is primarily due to horners being admixed with Eurasians?

---

Compared to most other Africans like West Africans, yes.

---

Okay.

---

Topographically logically, as well as more likely that East Africans are closer to outside of Africa populations. Since neighboring populations tend to cluster more with each other.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
out of context bluff out>


http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/01/17/1221359110.full.pdf


DNA analysis of an early modern human from Tianyuan Cave, China
Qiaomei Fua,b,1, Matthias Meyerb, Xing Gaoa, Udo Stenzelb, Hernán A. Burbanob,c, Janet Kelsob, and Svante Pääboa,b,1


Abstract
Hominins with morphology similar to present-day humans appear in the fossil record across Eurasia between 40,000 and 50,000 y ago. The genetic relationships between these early modern humans and present-day human populations have not been established. We have extracted DNA from a 40,000-y-old anatomically modern human from Tianyuan Cave outside Beijing, China. Using a highly scalable hybridization enrichment strategy, we determined the DNA sequences of the mitochondrial genome, the entire nonrepetitive portion of chromosome 21 (∼30 Mbp), and over 3,000 polymorphic sites across the nuclear genome of this individual. The nuclear DNA sequences determined from this early modern human reveal that the Tianyuan individual derived from a population that was ancestral to many present-day Asians and Native Americans but postdated the divergence of Asians from Europeans. They also show that this individual carried proportions of DNA variants derived from archaic humans similar to present-day people in mainland Asia.

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:


Take a hard look at that image. Notice the NATURAL progression of Africans in a Cline. Where do you think the AFRICAN ancestry of Ethiopians would sit?

---

quote:

---

The genetic relationships between these early modern humans and present-day human populations have not been established.

---

quote:

---

We report the discovery of an African American Y chromosome that carries the ancestral state of all SNPs that defined the basal portion of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree. We sequenced ∼240 kb of this chromosome to identify private, derived mutations on this lineage, which we named A00. We then estimated the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) for the Y tree as 338 thousand years ago (kya) (95% confidence interval = 237–581 kya). Remarkably, this exceeds current estimates of the mtDNA TMRCA, as well as those of the age of the oldest anatomically modern human fossils. The extremely ancient age combined with the rarity of the A00 lineage, which we also find at very low frequency in central Africa, point to the importance of considering more complex models for the origin of Y chromosome diversity. These models include ancient population structure and the possibility of archaic introgression of Y chromosomes into anatomically modern humans. The A00 lineage was discovered in a large database of consumer samples of African Americans and has not been identified in traditional hunter-gatherer populations from sub-Saharan Africa. This underscores how the stochastic nature of the genealogical process can affect inference from a single locus and warrants caution during the interpretation of the geographic location of divergent branches of the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree for the elucidation of human origins.

[...]

quote:

---

Figure 1. Genealogy of A00, A0, and the Reference SequenceLineages on which mutations were identified and lineages that were used for placing those mutations on the genealogy are indicated with thick and thin lines, respectively. The numbers of identified mutations on a branch are indicated in italics (four mutations in A00 were not genotyped but are indicated as shared by Mbo in this tree). The time estimates (and confidence intervals) are indicated kya for three nodes: the most recent common ancestor, the common ancestor between A0 and the reference (ref), and the common ancestor of A00 chromosomes from an African American individual and the Mbo. Two sets of ages are shown: on the left are estimates (numbers in black) obtained with the mutation rate based on recent whole-genome-sequencing results as described in the main text, and on the right are estimates (numbers in gray) based on the higher mutation rate used by Cruciani et al.6

---

quote:

---

We also estimated the level of variation among nine A00 lineages (i.e., including one additional Mbo individual) by using a battery of 95 Y-STRs for which all individuals had no missing data; (Table S2). A median-joining network28 shows that the African American A00 lineage is 11 mutational steps from the nearest Mbo and that the maximum difference between any pair of Mbo is nine steps (Figure 3 and Table S2). On the basis of these levels of within- and between-group variation, we calculated a second divergence time estimate of 564–2,697 years (Table 1) by assuming a mean Y-STR mutation rate of 1.32 × 10−4 and 2.76 × 10−5 per year, respectively.29 and 30

---

quote:

---

Figure 3. Median-Joining Network of A00 HaplotypesThe network is based on haplotypes (constructed with 95 Y-STRs) of eight Mbo and an African American (AA) individual. All mutations are assumed to be single step and were given equal weight during the construction of the network. Marker names are indicated without “DYS” at the beginning.

---

code:

---

 Table 1. Pairwise and Average STR-Based Estimates of TMRCA for A00 Chromosomes

TMRCA (Years)
Mbo 52	Mbo 159	Mbo 160	Mbo 170	Mbo 173	Mbo 183	Mbo 186	Mbo 199	African American	Average with Mboa
Mbo 52	-	80	120	159	239	159	199	120	478	154
Mbo 159	381	-	120	159	239	159	199	120	478	154
Mbo 160	572	572	-	120	199	199	239	159	439	165
Mbo 170	763	763	572	-	239	239	279	199	478	199
Mbo 173	1,144	1,144	953	1,144	-	319	359	279	399	268
Mbo 183	763	763	953	1,144	1,526	-	120	120	558	188
Mbo 186	953	953	1,144	1,335	1,716	572	-	159	598	222
Mbo 199	572	572	763	953	1,335	572	763	-	518	165
African American	2,288	2,288	2,098	2,288	1,907	2,670	2,860	2,479	-	564
Average with Mbob	736	736	790	953	1,280	899	1,062	790	2,697	-
 

---

We obtained point estimates of the TMRCA of two haplotypes by dividing the estimate of the number of mutational steps separating the haplotypes (as inferred from the network) by twice the mutational rate per STR and by the number of STRs scored in both haplotypes. Values above and below the diagonal separation correspond to estimates obtained with the high and low mutation rates, respectively (see text). The following abbreviation is used: TMRCA, time to the most recent common ancestor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL

---

understament of the year

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Trollkillah the subject is which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

---

quote:

---

The genetic relationships between these early modern humans and present-day human populations have not been established.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I'm not talking about early modern humans.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:


What groups today most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I'm not talking about early modern humans.

---

But that paper you've posted does. The authors reject the out of Africa "hypotheses". And the fact that modern mankind arose in Africa, then spread from there to populate the world.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
Beyoku is going to answer you. Beyoku gets mad whenever I interfere. In a way Beyoku is right.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2014/05/23/005348

Stephan Schiffels and Richard Durbin

Inferring human population size and separation history from multiple genome sequences

Our results are scaled to real times using a mutation rate of 1.25×10-8 per nucleotide per generation, as proposed recently [16] and supported by several direct mutation studies [14-16]. Using a value of 2.5×10-8 as was common previously [44, 45] would halve the times. This would bring the midpoint of the out-of-Africa separation to an uncomfortably recent 30-40kya, but more concerningly it would bring the separation of Native American ancestors (MXL) from East-Asian populations to 5-10kya, inconsistent with the paleontological record [25, 26].

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
I am not trying to trick him. I am just trying to measure his level of stupidity.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:

From http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2014-06-03.pdf

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
[QB] You are dumb lady. That tree is not rooted. You don't know what you are looking at. There is no set up for amun ra.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:

The follow up question is basically: why is "Eurasian population X" closer to Africans than the one you picked if "Eurasian population X" has not mixed with Africans?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:

The follow up question is basically: why is "Eurasian population X" closer to Africans than the one you picked if "Eurasian population X" has not mixed with Africans?

---

the genetic distance of various Eurasian populations to Africans can vary according to different environmental conditions each given population was subject to, evolving over thousands of years, how long a given population has been out of Africa, and isolation/drift/founder effect is variable

>> independant of later admixture with Africans a given population may or may not have undergone due interbreeding with migrant Africans, also affecting distance

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I'm not talking about early modern humans.

---

But that paper you've posted does. The authors reject the out of Africa "hypotheses". And the fact that modern mankind arose in Africa, then spread from there to populate the world.

---

the fact that modern mankind arose in Africa then spread from there to populate the world >>> is the Out of Africa hypothesis

that's basic, please do some remedial study

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
Beyoku is going to answer you. Beyoku gets mad whenever I interfere. In a way Beyoku is right.

---

beyoku is not going to answer which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans
he's trying to trick Amun Ra into doing it
Son of Ra is bravest so far, he took a guess at it

---

It appears Beyoku answered you after all. The question now becomes, do you understand any of it?

In those X versus Y diagrams. Or do you need to do some remedial study? Because apparently you didn't get it.



 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
@ amun ra.
Then why are Eurasians closer to Southern Sudanese considering southern Sudanese have an abundance of haplogroup A and B.(non CT m168 lineages) Some being exclusively A and B. As well as southern Sudanese have primarily L lineages other than L3?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
Troll patrol. Why are you just posting random stuff Over and over? LOL

---

---

LOL at this maleficent drone, with cheap ineffective rebuttals.





Y-DNA haplogroup A contains lineages deriving from the earliest branching in the human Y chromosome tree.

quote:

---

The oldest branching event, separating A0-P305 and A1-V161, is thought to have occurred about 140,000 years ago. Haplogroups A0-P305, A1a-M31 and A1b1a-M14 are restricted to Africa and A1b1b-M32 is nearly restricted to Africa. The haplogroup that would be named A1b2 is composed of haplogroups B through T. The internal branching of haplogroup A1-V161 into A1a-M31, A1b1, and BT (A1b2) may have occurred about 110,000 years ago. A0-P305 is found at low frequency in Central and West Africa.

A1a-M31 is observed in northwestern Africans; A1b1a-M14 is seen among click language-speaking Khoisan populations.

A1b1b-M32 has a wide distribution including Khoisan speaking and East African populations, and scattered members on the Arabian Peninsula.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

The way to determine the distance bewteen two populations on the above dendogram is to

start at the name of the first populaltion.

Then you follow the line path eminating from that name it like a mouse in a maze to the second popualation.

You can move in any direction along the path, up, down, backwards or forwards, whatever is the shortest distance from one population to the next.

Since the scale of this chart is horizontal you only record the distances of the horizontal movements.

When you put these horizontal segments together and measure them in total, that is the distance bewteen two populations

---

 

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Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
It seems you're avoiding the above. LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ more and more charts and data avoiding which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
why are you then arguing that some populations in Africa cannot be closer to certain Eurasians than other Africans?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
It seems you're avoiding the above. LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ more and more charts and data avoiding which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

---

Ps, the oldest sub Sharan African branch is most genetically distinct from the most recent Eurasians. Marinate on that one.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
It seems you're avoiding the above. LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^^^ more and more charts and data avoiding which population is the most genetically distinct from Sub Saharans?

---

Ps, the oldest sub Sharan African branch is most genetically distinct from the most recent Eurasians. Marinate on that one.

---

I'm not sure you are correct on this
wouldn't the most recent Eurasians be the ones who left Africa the latest?
It seems of Eurasians the most recent Eurasians would be closer to Africans having not been out of Africa as long as the older, least recent Eurasians

To clearify name the Eurasian group, let's not keep it a secret

---

I don't know of a specific name/ branch, and I don't see the importance in it anyway. But logic tells that the oldest African populations (with the oldest "SNP's") are least likely to cluster with younger (youngest) Eurasian populations (who have much younger mutations) Thus are most distant.


But, let's be clear, you are even too stupid to look up SNP's inheritance or understand a split region. How are you then going to say, "your not sure about it"? That doesn't make any sense.



 

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Posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
Posted in another thread:

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:
why are you then arguing that some populations in Africa cannot be closer to certain Eurasians than other Africans?

---

I didn't answer you when you said that a couple of times in this thread because it was a red herring.

I never said such thing, unless you can prove it by directly quoting me. I said there was indeed a substructure in Africa before the OOA migrations which affected OOA migrants but it was between the Y-DNA CT carriers and the non-CT carriers (A and B haplogroup carriers). As well as between MtDNA L3 carriers and non-L3 carriers.

CT and L3 haplogroup carriers unites East and West Africans as well as the majority of the African populations. So it can't constitute the basis to say that modern East Africans were particularly closer to Eurasian at the moment of the OOA migrations before any back migrations.

Basically, both modern Eastern and Western African population (E-P2 haplogroup carriers) originate in Eastern Africa at a time period after the OOA migrations.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
why are you asking Amun Ra stupid questions?
How can you make remarks about haplgroups but not know what exactly makes a haplogroup a haplogroup?

---

Blah blah blah.


My question is relevant and fundamental. Something you don't know about, thus you call it stupid. Thou stupid is what you are, with all those stupid racist questions you had over the many years.




 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by beyoku:

http://www.dhushara.com/book/unraveltree/tishkoff09.jpg

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:

quote:

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Originally posted by beyoku:

http://www.dhushara.com/book/unraveltree/tishkoff09.jpg

---

.


Careful! This one's bogus. It's not Tishkoff at all.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:
Unlike you I don't judge science by what pleases me.

Obviously you never did a simple 1:1 comparison
between the bullsheet and the real thing because
in less than a minute you'd've seen the variance.

---

Unlike me my foot. The 2 are exactly similar you dimwit. The question is the same. Why would you say one is bogus when they are exactly the same? You don't like it or what? It's just a bit ridiculous to think the website would post a bogus genetic distance tree in this context, so I wonder what make you say that.
 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
^^^ The question is rhetorical of course. The undercover idiots on this site don't like it, for some reason, when you post data showing the close genetic relationship between African populations (the same can be said about European, Native American and East Asian populations respectively). As I said many times it's because of 1-Common origin of African people after the OOA migrations of non-Africans. 2- Extensive admixture between African populations 3-Founder/Bottleneck effect on OOA populations (2 times for Native Americans one at the OOA event the other at the Bering Strait migratory event)
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Are you blind? I dae you to snip just the first
few branches of the one and the other and post
them here proving your point they are identical.

Grow up and put your childishness behind you, son.
I have absolutely no problem with the authentic
Tishkoff phylogeny. Unlike you I don't go by
what pleases me or refuse reasonable correction
labeling it racism (you have never experienced
racism for real or you wouldn't use the term so
lightly.

Now get to work. Snip snip post unless you're
totally without a clue (as well as a cretin).
You and your baby nuts haven't even visited the
site where the bogus phylogeny comes from with
no given source or author of the "unravelling."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ↓ - - - - - - - -


 

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Posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate (Member # 20039) on :
 
^^^You realize people can actually download Figure S7 (with the links I posted just above) and compare the two, right?
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:


I wonder why you call it bogus. You don't like it or what?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate:
^^^You realize people can actually download Figure S7 (with the links I posted just above) and compare the two, right?

---

So shut the **** up and do it already asshole.

I told you to do that in the first place.

How in the hell do you think I discovered
it's a misrepresentation if I didn't compare
it to the authentic NJT in the first place, fool.

This is not the first time I schooled you on this.
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=008385;p=1#000030
You are too stupid to learn. You dismiss every
attempt to elide your ignorance as racism.

What a frightened little boy you are.


I reissue my challenge of yesterday to you
Do a 1:1 comparison of Tishkoff's authentic
NJT vs the dhushara site 'unravelled' fraud
that ttbomk appears in no scientific journal
or book with credits as to who produced it.

IT IS NOT TISHKOFF'S NJT AND DISTANCE VALUES.

This is the last I have to say to you on this.
Anyone fool enough to believe you deserves to
bask in their co-joint ignorance with you.
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
My apologies to ARtU on Tishkoff's NJT.

I was working from the below which has no such NJT

whereas the two sided (Eurasian vs African) version is in

a later corrected reissue.


In the main article S. Africa and Pygimes appear like this


Figure 1.
Neighbor-joining tree from pairwise D2 genetic distances between populations (65). African
population branches are color-coded according to language family classification. Population
clusters by major geographic region are noted; bootstrap values above 700 out of 1000 are
indicated by thicker lines and bootstrap number.


But the updated supplement has them separated like so

...




Notice the treeing and distances do not agree
probably due to the basis each NJT was built on.


Thanks ARtU, I will add the revised SOM to my db.
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by tropicals redacted:
@Lioness

quote:

---

sorry to interupt your chat with cass but this chart shows limb ratios, the most elongated are at top right, East African
The least, bottom right Somalis are East African horners, the most elongated Egyptians, less elongated

---

Yes, I know it shows limb ratios, but explain its relevance to what I asked cass.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tukuler:



SPEAKING OF AVOIDANCE you ask but won't even answer
a few simple questions (they are not challenges) but have
the bile to try to taunt others into kissing your ass..

=-=

So what does your method reveal about say

* East Africa vs Tigara
or
* Pygmy vs EuroAmerican ?

By your method is Jebel Sahaba closer to
* East Africa
or
* West Africa?

What is the meaning of branches on the same limb?

What is being measured as the distance between populations?

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

The way to determine the distance bewteen two populations on the above dendogram is to

start at the name of the first populaltion.

Then you follow the line path eminating from that name it like a mouse in a maze to the second popualation.

You can move in any direction along the path, up, down, backwards or forwards, whatever is the shortest distance from one population to the next.

Since the scale of this chart is horizontal you only record the distances of the horizontal movements.

When you put these horizontal segments together and measure them in total, that is the distance bewteen two populations

---

---