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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Abstract
The human genetic diversity around the world was studied through several high variable genetic markers. In South America the demic consequences of admixture events between Native people, European colonists and African slaves???b] have been displayed by uniparental markers variability. The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) has been the most widely used genetic marker for studying American mixed populations, although nuclear markers, such as [b]microsatellite loci (STRs) commonly used in forensic science, showed to begenetically and geographically structured. In this work, we analyzed DNA from buccal swab samples of 296 individuals across Peru: 156 Native Amazons (Ashaninka, Cashibo and Shipibo from Ucayali, Huambiza from Loreto and Moche from Lambayeque) and 140 urban Peruvians from Lima and other 33 urban areas. The aim was to evaluate, through STRs and mtDNA variability, recent migrations in urban Peruvian populations and to gain more information about their continental ancestry. STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations and only ~1% to European populations. Also the maternally-transmitted mtDNA confirmed the strong Native contribution (~90% of Native American haplogroups) and the lower frequencies of African (~6%) and European (~3%) haplogroups. This study provides a detailed description of the urban Peruvian genetic structure and proposes forensic STRs as a useful tool for studying recent migrations, especially when coupled with mtDNA.
Xyyman comment: So Peruvians are 22% African by STR but 6% African by mtDNA. Maybe they should rethink what is an African mtDNA.


Abstract
The subsequent human migrations that dispersed out of Africa, both prehistoric and historic and colonization of India by modern humans is unanimous, and phylogeny of major mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have played a key role in assessing the genetic origin of people of India. To address more such events, complete mitogenomes of 113 Melakudiya tribe of Southern India were sequenced and 46 individuals showed the presence of west Eurasian autochthonous haplogroups HV14 and U7. Phylogenetic analysis revealed two novel subclades HV14a1b and HV14a1b1 and sequences representing haplogroup U7 were included under previously described subclade U7a3a1a2* specific to India. Moreover, the present analysis on complete mtDNA reveals addition information of the spread and distribution of west Eurasian haplogroups in southern India, in tracing an unexplored genetic link between Melakudiya tribe with the people of Iranian Plateau, South Caucasus, and Central Asia. Coalescence ages of HV14 and U7a3a1a2* trees in the present study dates ~ 16.1 ± 4.3 and ~ 13.4 ± 5.6 kya respectively.
Xyyman comment: What is “west Eurasian”?


Abstract
European genetic gradients of modern humans were initially interpreted as a consequence of the demic diffusion of expanding Neolithic farmers. However, recent studies showed that these gradients may also be influenced by other evolutionary processes such as population admixture or range contractions. Genetic gradients were observed in the Americas, although their specific evolutionary causes were not investigated. Here we extended the approach used to study genetic gradients in Europe to analyze the influence of diverse evolutionary scenarios on American genetic gradients. Using extensive computer simulations, we evaluated the impact of (i) admixture between expansion waves of modern humans, (ii) the presence of ice-sheets during the last glacial maximum (LGM) and (iii) long-distance dispersal (LDD) events, on the genetic gradients (detected by principal component analysis) of the entire continent, North America and South America. The specific simulation of North and South America showed that genetic gradients are usually orthogonal to the direction of range expansions—either expansions from Bering or posterior re-expansions to recolonize northern regions after ice sheets melting—and we suggest that they result from allele surfing processes. Conversely, our results on the entire continent show a northwest-southeast gradient obtained with any scenario, which we interpreted as a consequence of isolation by distance along the long length of the continent. These findings suggest that distinct genetic gradients can be detected at different regions of the Americas and that subcontinent regions present gradients more sensible to evolutionary and environmental factors (such as LDD and the LGM) than the whole continent.
Xyyman comment: I never knew there was a south to North gradient. Combined with that Peruvian paper it is beginning to look like the Americas was also populated from the south also and not only from the Bering strait
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 

 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
DELUSIONAL EUROPEANS!!!

From eupedia.com…..

W3
W3a
W3a1: found especially in central and eastern Europe and in the Indian subcontinent
W3a1a: found in central and northern Europe

HV
HV0 and V
HV1 : found in Ukraine, Italy, Israel, Armenia, North Africa, Yemen, Ethiopia and Somalia
HV1a'b'c
HV1a

Haplogroup HV is found mainly in Western Asia, Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and North Africa.

In Africa, the clade peaks among Egyptians inhabiting El-Hayez oasis (14.3%).[4] The haplogroup is, however, generally more frequent toward the northwest, with the HV0 subclade occurring among Mozabite Berbers (8.24%),[5] Libyans (7.4%),[6] Reguibate Sahrawi (6.48%),[5] Zenata Berbers (5.48%),[5] and Algerians (4.84% total; 2.15%-3.75% in Oran).


 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
xyyman purposely leaves out the title of the article, why should there be a thread like that with no article title ?
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] Abstract
The human genetic diversity around the world was studied through several high variable genetic markers. In South America the demic consequences of admixture events between Native people, European colonists and [b]African slaves???b]

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quote:

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by XVIII century more than a third of the Lima's population included slaves, mainly Africans

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
"mostly". So the rest were....?

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mercenaries

At least three thousand Africans participated in the conquest of Peru. These figures do not count the numerous Africans taken through unofficial channels.
The first Africans from Spain were known as ladinos, or hispanicized Africans, and were soldiers, servants, settlers, and slaves.
African men and women were part of a number of Spanish expeditions. The Panfilo de Narvaez Expedition of 1528 from Cuba to Florida is one such example. This expedition included Esteban, perhaps the most notable African male to aid in the exploration of North America.

The Coronado Expedition of 1540 to Southwestern North America included a free African man who later served as an interpreter and would eventually become a Franciscan friar. The Juan Guerra de Resa Expedition of 1600 included African soldiers, their mulatto wives and children, and Isabel de Olvera, a mulatta woman. These are just three examples of the many expeditions which included Africans and African Americans among their members.

Sixteenth century conquistadors of African and Afro-Hispanic American descent, hereafter referred to as “black conquistadors,” were as much a part of the exploration of the Americas as their Spanish counterparts. Many people of African descent used military service as a means to emancipation and inclusion into Spanish society. As the numbers of expeditions increased and the people within Spanish America began to settle, the need to secure the land and the riches associated with it grew as well. Black conquistadors figured prominently in the securing of these lands.

As a result of their military successes, some black conquistadors were awarded land grants and special recognition, with Chile being the only country in which black conquistadors received encomiendas. Juan Garrido is one example of a black conquistador who accompanied Ponce de Leon on his Caribbean expeditions as well as Hernan Cortes in Mexico. Garrido, born in West Africa, participated in the conquests of Puerto Rico, Cuba, Guadalupe, Dominica and Florida. In his lifetime he was a resident of Puerto Rico, Mexico City and Cuernavaca and occupied the post of doorkeeper (portero) and crier (pregonero). Eventually, through the probanza or petitionary proof of merit, Juan would be given a house plot but he was never granted a position in the new city of Mexico other than those typically occupied by blacks



 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
As You know, I am not a history buff. Not my thing But, is that midget? Lol! Is that portrait authentic? Looks like it was painted with Crayola? Seriously, you are missing the point. There is virtually no European women represented here, the author is lying! Why didn’t they publish results of the indigenees? We have seen Native Americana and Oceanian ancestry in West Africa.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
As You know, I am not a history buff.

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Not my thing But, is that midget? Lol! Is that portrait authentic?

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If you see a badly drawn illustration that has nothing to do with authenticity. Sometimes people who did not have much art training made pictures

source:

Fray Diego Durán,
História de las Indias de Nueva España e Islas de la Tierra Firme, 1581. Illustrations on pages 413, 416.

http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/post/96031288829/skemono-submitted-to-medievalpoc-given-this


Also this one from the same book:



________________

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
There is virtually no European women represented here, the author is lying!

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STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations and only ~1% to European populations.

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[..] In the 3 K model, the -
Native Amazon individuals were characterized by only one main component shared with
urban Peruvian populations, which was very rare or absent in the two source populations (US
Europeans and US Africans). On the other hand, urban Peruvians showed a strong heterogeneity;
in fact, on the Native American background an African component was also present,-
especially in the Lima sample. The strength of the Native component was already evident in
the 2 K model

The model highlighted an association between some clusters and the populations under
study (Fig 4). Specifically, Native Amazon individuals were found typically within cluster 5,
US Africans within clusters 2 and 3, while US Europeans in cluster 1. Cluster 4 seems not to be
associated with specific populations. Cluster 5 contains most Native Amazon (77.2% - 100%)
and urban Peruvian individuals (33.3% - 72%), while individuals of the source populations
were almost absent. Clusters 2 and 3 clearly marked individuals belonging to the US African
sample (27% for cluster 2 and 42.1% for cluster 3). It is worth noticing that many urban and
few Native Peruvian individuals fall into African clusters 2 and 3. Instead, cluster 1 is almost
exclusive of US Europeans, and only one individual from Lima was found in this cluster. At
last, the origin of cluster 4 remained unknown and probably it could be attributed to mixed
individuals between source populations

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Too bad their isn't Y-str/haplogroup data to show if there was paternal contribution to compensate for the discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a, (found in an Abusir sample) which found its way to the natives.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 


Mitochondrial B4b (which is sometimes labelled B2) not to be confused with African Y DNA B
is one of five haplogroups found among the indigenous peoples of the Americas, the others being A, C, D, and X.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Elmaestro:
Too bad their isn't Y-str/haplogroup data to show if there was paternal contribution to compensate for the discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a, (found in an Abusir sample) which found its way to the natives.

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quote:

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STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Peruvians are 22% African by STR

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quote:

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Originally posted by Elmaestro:
Too bad their isn't Y-str/haplogroup data

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quote:

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Originally posted by Elmaestro:
[QB] So the Ydna doesn't make up for the differences..

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what do you mean?
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Will these Europeans stop their lies, and/or distortion, so we can get a true picture of what really went down in pre-historical times?

FYI – “SSA” in this instance is some ethnic group in Guinea Bissau??







“discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a,”
 

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Posted by Elmaestro (Member # 22566) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Elmaestro:
[QB] So the Ydna doesn't make up for the differences..

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what do you mean?

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Previously, to my knowledge South Americans particularly on the western coast had more African MTDNA uniparentals than Y-DNA. So when I see that peruvians in particular have a decent range of African Affinity but only a portion of that worth of Mthaps it calls into question, how this African Affinity was obtained and how recent.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 






Afro-Peruvian Spanish: Spanish slavery and the legacy of Spanish Creoles
By Sandro Sessarego

_____________________

I'm seeing a lot of fluctuation here not consistent gender proportions
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Elmaestro:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Elmaestro:
[QB] So the Ydna doesn't make up for the differences..

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what do you mean?

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Previously, to my knowledge South Americans particularly on the western coast had more African MTDNA uniparentals than Y-DNA. So when I see that peruvians in particular have a decent range of African Affinity but only a portion of that worth of Mthaps it calls into question, how this African Affinity was obtained and how recent.

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quote:

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Genet Mol Biol. 2016 Oct-Dec; 39(4): 573–579.
Published online 2016 Aug 4. doi: 10.1590/1678-4685-GMB-2015-0273
PMCID: PMC5127147
PMID: 27561109

Uniparental ancestry markers in Chilean populations

Camilla Dutra Vieira-Machado,




A high Native American matrilineal contribution and a low Native American and African patrilineal contributions were found in all three studied regions. As previously found in Chilean admixed populations, the Native American matrilineal contribution was lower in Santiago than in the other studied regions.

As shown in Table 4, the YAP insertion average frequency was at 8.7%, showing low contribution of African ancestry in the patrilineage, as previously observed for the Native American ancestry estimated by DYS199 locus. There was also no significant difference in the frequency of this insertion among the studied communes (χ2 = 7.18, DF = 6, p=0.3042).


In this study, a low African patrilineal contribution, ranging from 2.3% to 14%, and a low frequency of the DYS199T allele (8,5%, indicating low Native American contribution) are suggestive of a mostly European patrilineal origin for the Chilean population studied, as highlighted by Cifuentes et al. (2004) in the Santiago population.

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quote:

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Mol Genet Genomic Med. 2016 Jan; 4(1): 9–17.
Published online 2015 Dec 21. doi: 10.1002/mgg3.192
PMCID: PMC4707029
PMID: 26788533
Genetics and genomic medicine in Ecuador

César Paz‐y‐Miño,


In 2010, 71.9% of Ecuadorians self‐identify as Mestizos, 6.1% as white, 7% as Amerindians, and 7.2% as African descendants.

The Ecuadorian population originates from a complex mixture of a large number of Amerindian tribes, Africans and Europeans (Baeta et al. 2013). It is marked by historic migratory and colonization events that created population bottlenecks and from a genetic standpoint have influenced genetic flow and genetic drift (Raff et al. 2011; Paz‐y‐Miño and Burgos Figueroa 2015).

Analysis of Y‐chromosome DNA in Mestizos show the Q1a3a haplogroup, shared by all South American Amerindians, and three other haplogroups, R1b, E1b1b, and TE, commonly found in European and African men, respectively (Gaviria et al. 2013). Mitochondrial DNA studies begin with the analysis of the Cytochrome b gene in Mestizos, Native American, Cholos, and African‐Americans, relating common polymorphisms to the possible origin of each population (Paz‐y‐Miño et al. 2008a). It is clear that the mitochondrial contribution came primarily from Amerindian women, with varying frequencies of specific haplotypes depending on the population (Baeta et al. 2012). The case is not that easy when discussing markers involving the nuclear genome. STR analysis of autosomic markers showed 73% were of Amerindian origin, 19% European, and 8% African (González‐Andrade et al. 2007); whereas Y chromosome markers showed over 70% of European, 22% Amerindian, and 2% African contribution in Mestizos (González‐Andrade et al. 2007; Gaviria et al. 2013).

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quote:

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BMC Genomics. 2015; 16(1): 131.
Published online 2015 Feb 25. doi: 10.1186/s12864-015-1339-1
PMCID: PMC4422311
PMID: 25887241
Genomic insights on the ethno-history of the Maya and the ‘Ladinos’ from Guatemala

Jens Söchtig,#

In contrast to the significant Native American and European ancestry of Guatemalans, the average African component is very low in Guatemala, and it appears almost exclusively in ‘Ladinos’ (3.6%). There was only one Maya who shows a moderate percentage of African co-ancestry (4.4%). This subject (#LaTinta_08, female) is of self-described Q’eqchi’ ancestry and carries a Native American mtDNA haplotype (B2t). This percentage of African ancestry in this Q’eqchi’ individual could simply mirror the variability of ancestry estimates using panels of AIMs containing a limited amount of SNPs [70], and not necessarily a real African genome ancestry.

Although African slaves arrived in Guatemala in the period between the VI and XVII century to replace the indigenous population as a labor force [72], our data indicate that the African genetic legacy in Guatemala is very low, and this agrees well with the documentation indicating the few amount of slaves arriving directly to the country. This is in contrast to other American populations, e.g. in Colombia [25], Brazil [73] and the Caribbean [63], but is in agreement with the patterns observed in El Salvador [26], which has no coast in the Caribbean (Guatemala has also limited contact with the Caribbean sea and even today, the country has difficult access through this coast). As shown by the admixture analysis based on AIMs, African ancestry is higher for ‘Ladinos’ (3.6%) than for the Maya (virtually 0%). The results as a whole are also in good agreement with the census: in modern-day Guatemala, ‘Afro-Guatemalan’ individuals comprise only ~1% of the total population

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Guys!!!! The numbers don’t add up. Iberia has the highest frequency of mtDNA H in all of Europe. Today less than 1% of Peruvians(Lima) has mtDNA H. In fact those haplogroups labeled as European are NOT European. So, did the white women got exterminated by their white men. Lioness posted that European women was part of the majority back in the 1600. Today, that is NOT the case. African lineage is by far dominant over “European” lineage. So what happened to those white women? In fact to the Cluster Chart. @K2 Africans and Native Americans share more similarity. Are they labelling Africans as whites back in the 1600’s?.

But more importantly THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.!!!! What is Oceanian haplogroups doing in West Africa? What is Native American (Peruvian?) ancestry doing in the heart of Africa? I am telling you….OOA is more recent that we are led to believe. The migration paths is not what it seems.

BTW – that data set was “unpublished” until recently per the author on West Africans carrying Oceanian haplogroups. What else are they sitting on?













“discrepancy between Mtdna and autosmal clustering however this small scaled but detailed paper might be telling (in a precolumbian kind of way) Not to mention the M1a,” [/QB][/QUOTE]
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Did they have help?


Peru
The Inca Empire, or Inka Empire (Quechua: Tawantinsuyu), was the largest empire in pre-Columbian America. The administrative, political and military center of the empire was located in Cusco in modern-day Peru. The Inca civilization arose from the highlands of Peru sometime in the early 13th century.

Cuzco was the center of the Incan empire. The Incas, an American Indian people, were originally a small tribe in the southern highlands of Peru. In less than a century, during the 1400s, they built one of the largest, most tightly controlled empires the world has ever known.



 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Can you pick out the bull shyte? How many UNPUBLISHED data sets are out there. Here yDNA R-V88 is spread all through-out Africa

Internal diversification of non‐Sub‐Saharan haplogroups in Sahelian populations and the spread of pastoralism beyond the Sahara- Iva Kulichová

Abstract
Background
Today, African pastoralists are found mainly in the Sahel/Savannah belt spanning 6,000 km from west to east, flanked by the Sahara to the north and tropical rainforests to the south. The most significant group among them are the Fulani who not only keep cattle breeds of possible West Eurasian ancestry, but form themselves a gene pool containing some paternally and maternally‐transmitted West Eurasian haplogroups.

Materials and Methods
We generated complete sequences for 33 mitogenomes belonging to haplogroups H1 and U5 (23 and 10, respectively), and genotyped 16 STRs in 65 Y chromosomes belonging to haplogroup R1b‐V88.

Results
We show that age estimates of the maternal lineage H1cb1, occurring almost exclusively in the Fulani, point to the time when the first cattle herders settled the Sahel/Savannah belt. Similar age estimates were obtained for paternal lineage R1b‐V88, which occurs today in the Fulani but also in other, mostly pastoral populations. Maternal clade U5b1b1b, reported earlier in the Berbers, shows a shallower age, suggesting another possibly independent input into the Sahelian pastoralist gene pool.

Conclusions
Despite the fact-really???? that animal domestication originated in the Near East ∼ 10 ka, and that it was from there that animals such as sheep, goats as well as cattle were introduced into Northeast Africa soon thereafter, contemporary cattle keepers in the Sahel/Savannah belt show uniparental genetic affinities that suggest the possibility of an ancient contact with an additional ancestral population of western Mediterranean ancestry.



 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
So…. Even within this paper they are hiding data(unpublished). 72 R1b discovered but no mention of what the remaining 7 R1b sub-clade is? My guess it is R1b-M269 and it is found through-out the Sahel and further south. That is why it was not mentioned further.
oH! mtDNA U5b sub-clade??? Wasn’t that in the Abusirs and the recent study on the AEian mummy?


Quote from the study-
“With regard to NRY, we found **72** samples belonging to haplogroup R1b and analyzed all **65** samples belonging to the haplogroup R1b-V88. As opposed to the mtDNA haplogroups H1cb and U5b
found in the Fulani and Songhai, R1b-V88 was also distributed throughout other Sahelian populations (3 Fulani from Senegal, 10 Fulani from Niger, 1 Fulani from Cameroon, 1 Fulani from Chad, 6
Daza from Chad, 7 Sudanese Arabs, 6 Shuwa Arabs from Nigeria, 3 Tuareg from Niger, 7 Baggara Arabs from Chad, 4 Maba from Chad and 16 Dangal eat from Chad). In these samples, we genotyped two
additional SNPs (V8 and V69) allowing us to discriminate between specific branches of R1b-V88 (Cruciani et al., 2010). SNPs were analyzed by the RFLP method, using primers and restriction enzymes listed in
Supporting Information Table S2.”
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] Did they have help?


Peru
The Inca Empire, or Inka Empire (Quechua: Tawantinsuyu), was the largest empire in pre-Columbian America. The administrative, political and military center of the empire was located in Cusco in modern-day Peru. The Inca civilization arose from the highlands of Peru sometime in the early 13th century.

Cuzco was the center of the Incan empire. The Incas, an American Indian people, were originally a small tribe in the southern highlands of Peru. In less than a century, during the 1400s, they built one of the largest, most tightly controlled empires the world has ever known.

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Bandurria

Bandurria is a large archaeological site on the Huaura River in Peru going back to 4,000 BC. It is located about 3 km south of the city of Huacho, in Huacho District, Huaura Province, Lima Region. It corresponds chronologically to the period known as the 'Late Archaic' or 'Late preceramic' covering the years from about 4000 to 2000 BC.

In 2007, additional radio-carbon dates have been obtained. According to Alejandro Chu Barrera, the director of the Archaeological Project of Bandurria, the site is now dated firmly to 3200 BC.

There are also other coastal sites in Peru that have been dated very early as the result of recent excavations. They include Sechin Bajo with the oldest radiocarbon dates of 3600 BC, and Huaricanga, dated to about 3500 BC.







___________________________________________


Caral

Caral, or Caral-Chupacigarro, was a large settlement in the Supe Valley, Barranca Province, Peru 120 miiles north of Lima. Caral is the most ancient city of the Americas and a well-studied site of the Norte Chico civilization.

Caral was declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 2009.

Caral was inhabited roughly between the 2,600 and 2000 BCE, enclosing an area of more than 60 hectares (150 acres). Caral was described by its excavators as the oldest urban centre in the Americas, a claim that was later challenged as other ancient sites were found nearby, such as Bandurria, Peru.

Caral is the largest recorded site in the Andean region with dates older than 2000 BCE and appears to be the model for the urban design adopted by Andean civilisations that rose and fell over the span of four millennia.

The date of 2627 BCE is based on carbon dating reed and woven carrying bags that were found in situ. These bags were used to carry the stones that were used for the construction of the temples.The site may date even earlier as samples from the oldest parts of the excavation have yet to be dated.[6] The town had a population of approximately 3000 people.

However, the 19 other sites in the area (posted at Caral), allow for a possible total population of 20,000 people for the Supe Valley. All of these sites share similarities with Caral. They had small platforms or stone circles. Shady believes that Caral was the focus of this civilisation, which itself was part of an even vaster complex, trading with the coastal communities

The first pyramid in Egypt was erected during the Third Dynasty by the Pharaoh Djoser and his architect Imhotep. This step pyramid consisted of six stacked mastabas.



Caral Supe

One of 18 urban settlements situated in the same area, Caral features complex and monumental architecture, including six large pyramidal structures




____________________________________
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
xyyman, history keeps messing you up

even genetic anthropology articles give historical background. Without it one makes foolish assumptions
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Huh? What assumption am I making? I am only stating FACTS and asking a question. "What is Oceania DNA doing in West Africa and why is Native American DNA also found in Africa"?
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Huh? What assumption am I making? I am only stating FACTS and asking a question. "What is Oceania DNA doing in West Africa and why is Native American DNA also found in Africa"?

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Huh? What assumption am I making? I am only stating FACTS and asking a question. "What is Oceania DNA doing in West Africa and why is Native American DNA also found in Africa"?

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
huh!? someone? Anyone?

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
I care for the Incas or any civilization in the Americas as far as if there was African influence.

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
The genetic profile do NOT support the “documented” history …as reported Europeans. That is my point!

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quote:

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STR data highlighted that most individuals (67%) of the urban Peruvian sample have a strong similarity to the Amazon Native population, whereas 22% have similarity to African populations and only ~1% to European populations.

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
[qb]

1. name Oceania haplogroups found in Africa and list article title showing this




[QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman:
huh!? someone? Anyone?

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no you

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
So what is the significance of this? Oceanians migrated to Africa ?
That's the conspiracy that Europeans are trying to hide but you found it in their articles?
Just circle a bunch of stuff and think you are saying somethinG?

Why are we even talking about this in thread about the Incas?
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
FInd a quote about the Inca or Peru on wikipedia and then explain why it's not true

Try your own words. Posting charts made by Europeans, bolding text in articles does not replace you in your own words making a clear point or theory
 

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Posted by Fourty2Tribes (Member # 21799) on :
 



How can you tell which way a cline moves?
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Interestingly the Mende keep coming up containing very ANCIENT DNA. Skoglund have them older than the YRI, Taforalt paper have them containing a very old autosomal DNA, They also contain very old OOA uniparental markers linked to Oceanians and Americans.

Iwo-Eleru? Was the migration via the West or via the East to the Americas? I remember seeing documentary on TV several years ago where they talked about the Eastern Seaboard of the US extended several 100 miles into the Atlantic Ocean. Could it be......?

I recently found out that the Indian Ocean is littered with small Islands between Africa and....Australia. Yes, remember Australia was "colonised" first by OOA.


Europeans and their lies probably got this thing all fugked up and twisted with their thirst to make themselves relevant in pre-history!
 

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Posted by Fourty2Tribes (Member # 21799) on :
 


That A2 looks like a squatter from an ancient eastern migration. It might even be a shallow back migration. What's up with N, in Brazil? Why are maps of N so rare? This is the only map of N in Africa.
 

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Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Interestingly the Mende keep coming up containing very ANCIENT DNA. Skoglund have them older than the YRI, Taforalt paper have them containing a very old autosomal DNA, They also contain very old OOA uniparental markers linked to Oceanians and Americans.

Iwo-Eleru? Was the migration via the West or via the East to the Americas? I remember seeing documentary on TV several years ago where they talked about the Eastern Seaboard of the US extended several 100 miles into the Atlantic Ocean. Could it be......?

I recently found out that the Indian Ocean is littered with small Islands between Africa and....Australia. Yes, remember Australia was "colonised" first by OOA.


Europeans and their lies probably got this thing all fugked up and twisted with their thirst to make themselves relevant in pre-history!

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
There was never any “back-migration”. NEVER!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
[QB] Why do you think it is “back-migration”. You people need to reevaluate how you think…..This is profound!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
What is going on here? Oceanians, Peruvians and ancient West Africans(Iwo-Eleru) share a genetic connection. When the “Eurasians” arrived FROM the source of the Nile, maybe Tanzania or Malawi and spread throughout Africa that changed the genetic makeup of SSA.

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
What is going on here? Oceanians, Peruvians and ancient West Africans(Iwo-Eleru) share a genetic connection. When the “Eurasians” arrived FROM the source of the Nile, maybe Tanzania or Malawi and spread throughout Africa that changed the genetic makeup of SSA.

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Much of the influence of Blacks in South America comes from first the Sumerians, and later Axumites. The Mochica was influenced by Axumite and Meroite ex-Pats. They would have also influenced the Incas.

Genetics can never tell you the story of history. Archaeology does teach us about what happened in ancient times like linguistics. Genetics , unless it is ancient DNA, is based of speculation and statistical models.
 

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Posted by Fourty2Tribes (Member # 21799) on :
 
^^ What about the pale Libyans?



Could the first clump or race of light skin people native African?


First attempt at an objective haplogroup map. I want to redo it with a consistent color scheme. I should not have split N and M with the color's blue and red.



 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
Nice attempt.


And yes, Whites skin is indigenous to Africa...there are white Africans. Sorry Dr Winters.

Just as there are black Europeans....ala Cheddar Man
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Nice attempt.


And yes, Whites skin is indigenous to Africa...there are white Africans. Sorry Dr Winters.

Just as there are black Europeans....ala Cheddar Man

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Nice attempt.


And yes, Whites skin is indigenous to Africa...there are white Africans. Sorry Dr Winters.

Just as there are black Europeans....ala Cheddar Man

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So would you say that the modern European is white cheddar? and that the original cheddar was African?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes:
^^ What about the pale Libyans?



Could the first clump or race of light skin people native African?


First attempt at an objective haplogroup map. I want to redo it with a consistent color scheme. I should not have split N and M with the color's blue and red.

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
Nice attempt.


And yes, Whites skin is indigenous to Africa...there are white Africans. Sorry Dr Winters.

Just as there are black Europeans....ala Cheddar Man

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quote:

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Originally posted by Thereal:
I not sure what you mean as I think Dr. Winters is saying contemporary European whiteness is a new phenoma not white skin in general.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
If white skin is indigenous to Africa why is that you don't see the white type until the invasion of the People of the Sea in African/Egyptian Art? Please support you statement with evidence [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:
1. There is no such thing as a white skeleton but read up the anthropology of Malawi_Hora_8100,
2. By the bronze Age the genetic makeup of North Africa IAM and Southern Europe was morphing to lighter skin.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes:

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
If white skin is indigenous to Africa why is that you don't see the white type until the invasion of the People of the Sea in African/Egyptian Art? Please support you statement with evidence

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Were the Sea People large enough to flip a region's phenotype? They Tamehu were originally depicted as darker, however they were also in a region where light skin pigments were clustering organically without any back migration model. There was a conversion of lighter skin San and the Luxmanda types from the SSA albino capital. Homo Sapiens always had a penchant for light skin even to the point where it manifest near the equator.


Albino island in panama is a microcosm of what slowly took place North Africa before the major invasions. https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/jun/12/panama-albino-children-of-the-moon-in-pictures [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:


After the People of the Sea were defeated instead of killing them all off they were settled in the Delta, and overtime they multiplied and conspired with other foriegners to overthrow the Egyptians. This culminated in the Greco-Romans taking control of Egypt.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

given the fact that among the depictions of the People of the Sea on Egyptian monuments their are African people.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
There are white skeletons just like there are white skulls. You would not have craniometrics and be able to differentiate races if what you said was true.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

There was no morphing into lighter skin, if this was true whites would have appeared in Africa instead of Central Asia.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Thereal:
I think xyman is speaking of the overall human phenotype because whites used abstracted terms to imply pigmented white people with the eurafrican and Mediterranean as racial discriptions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
There are white skeletons just like there are white skulls. You would not have craniometrics and be able to differentiate races if what you said was true.

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what is the earliest white skull you know of?

quote:

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Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

There was no morphing into lighter skin, if this was true whites would have appeared in Africa instead of Central Asia.

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I thought according to your theory black skin morphed into light skin because blacks in Europe were trapped in caves for 10,000 years due to the ice age which had sealed over the entrances of the caves
and later they migrated through underground cave tunnels into Central Asia

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Correct. I said there was no morphing of Blacks into whites in AFRICA.

.
 

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Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
 
we digress but....keep things in perspective







"Indigenous "North Africans are....Africans
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by xyyman:

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So You added "European/Caucasian" and "African/Negro" to this chart? Nice job it looks real




Genetic structure of north-west Africa reveal by STR analysis
Jun 2000

________________________________________

this has anything to do with the Incas?
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Negro means black. And Caucasian is a metric from the Caucasus region.
 

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Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Negro means black. And Caucasian is a metric from the Caucasus region.

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Negro means black. And Caucasian is a metric from the Caucasus region.

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I showed the original chart from
Genetic structure of north-west Africa reveal by STR analysis
xyyman added two round corner boxes to the chart, left out the source of the chart, and then added European/Caucasian" and "African/Negro"

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So basically you are trying to tell me Negro doesn't means black. And Caucasian isn't a metric from the Caucasus region.

Ok, got it.
 

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Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
 
Of course negro means a black person or people first typefied by the W Afr
victims of mid 15th C Portuguese/Mauritanian enslavers then applied to folks
worldwide who resembled those 'Guineas/Gnawa' in facial features and hair forms.

quote:

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1. Negro, with its "branches,"
   Indo-Melanesian,
   Australian,
   African, and
   Austro-African;

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Negro means black. And Caucasian is a metric from the Caucasus region.

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I showed the original chart from
Genetic structure of north-west Africa reveal by STR analysis
xyyman added two round corner boxes to the chart, left out the source of the chart, and then added European/Caucasian" and "African/Negro"

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So basically you are trying to tell me Negro doesn't means black. And Caucasian isn't a metric from the Caucasus region.

Ok, got it.

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quote:

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The link between horses and chariots on one hand and springs and oases on the other can be seen from the names given to the nomadic riders in Lybia. One of the the most famous tribes that raided the coast from the interior ,on horse back or using chariots,was the Nigretes or Nigeratai - whose beautiful blackness was the source of the latin word Niger, from which the Portuguese,Spanish and English "Nigero" developed. Their name came from the Semitic root /(N)gr(water flow into sand) which was the origin of the toponyms Ger,Gar,Nager and Niger,notably the river Niger,which unaccountably flowed east away from the Atlantic ,apperantly into the desert.

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