Peace and blessings Phamily. I wanted to take some time to have a brief discussion about the historical comparative method and the importance of the regularity of sound-meaning correspondences when trying to ascertain the etymology of a word, and/or its cognate in related languages. Recently in the “Ancient Egypt African Cultural Diffusion” thread (http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=010356;p=7), our good brother AncientGebts made a claim that the ancient Egyptian Horus (Hr.w) can be found in the Tigrigna (Semitic) language as halawi (ሓላዊ) “sentry, watchman, escort, guard.” You can see his accompanying images below.
There are several problems with this analysis and is why I felt it better to respond in a separate post as the conversation is all over the place in the original forum. The methodology employed by AncientGebts is typical throughout his work and why it diminishes the quality of his conclusions, and renders much of it false.
The first issue at hand is that AncientGebts doesn’t supply us any in Egyptian with the consonant values Hr.w meaning “guard, sentry, watchman, escort.” Secondly, he doesn’t provide any series of regular, non-accidental sound-meaning correspondences to demonstrate that we can match the phonemes in Tigrigna one-for-one with the series in Egyptian. This is done so that we can eliminate chance as being an explanation for the alleged correspondence between Egyptian Hr.w and Tigrigna halawi. Thirdly, we have a mismatch in meanings. He is trying to meaning of the New Kingdom Egyptian word HrHr “to guard; to keep” [Andreu/Cauville, RdE 29, 1977, 10; Meeks, AL 77.2819; Lesko, Dictionary II, 135; KoptHWb 569; vgl. EDG 326 f] and retro apply it to Hr “hawk” and Hr.w “the deity Horus” without context. Lastly, AncientGebts totally ignores the grammar in Egyptian and doesn’t understand that the -w is a grammatical morpheme that must be explained in Tigrigna.
As mentioned before, what must be done is an analysis of a series of regular sound-meaning correspondences between two or more languages to find the cognates of our term and symbol. For this post I will choose ciLuba-Bantu, a language of the Democratic Republic of Kongo, to find our correspondences. What the reader must first understand is that the G5 and G7 (hawk on standard) can be rendered either Hr or nTr. This is why the G5 or G7 hieroglyph is interchangeable with both A40 (seated man with beard) and R8 (netcher pole) classifiers (so-called determinatives) when referring to deities and kings. The G5 or G7 hawk glyphs, however, dominate when referring to the king.
Thus, when we are comparing Egyptian Hr(w) “hawk; deity,” we must also account for nTr “hawk; deity” in the compared language(s). In the following table of examples, we note that Egyptian H corresponds with ciLuba /k/; and Egyptian r corresponds with ciLuba /l/. Also, Egyptian -w corresponds with ciLuba mu-.
Remember that we also have to find correspondences to Egyptian nTr. The following table demonstrates that Egyptian <n> corresponds to ciLuba /n/ and /mu-/ prefixes; Egyptian T corresponds to ciLuba /k/; and Egyptian r corresponds to ciLuba /l/, /s/, and /z/.
As we can see, ciLuba accounts for all phonemes. When it comes to Hr.w “hawk; deity” and nTr “deity” (also hawk), the word derives from a root meaning “power; to make strong.” When the agent morphemes are added (-w in Hr.w and n- in nTr) it becomes “eminent or powerful person.” This describes a king, ancestor, or divinity. It refers to something or someone that has the ability and authority to make things happen. This is reflected in Proto-Bantu (PB): *kódì "bird of prey; hawk species"; *kòd "be strong, be hard, be difficult." This may be related to PB *kód "take, touch" (ciLuba -aakila "seize, to take"; Egyptian j.kn "to seize; to take hold of," TA.j “to take; to sieze”). Egyptian Hr.w can still be found in Isizulu (South Africa) as uhele/izihele “hawk.” The word power means “the ability to act, do, and/or produce an effect.” This is reflected in ciKam/Egyptian as Hr “to be ready (to do something); to make ready” [Wb 3, 146-147.9; FCD 176].
Both the graphemes in Egyptian H and T derive from /k/. Both Hr and nTr are doublets in the language. The bantu languages help to clarify the history, context, and relationship between the grapheme and its usage in ancient Egyptian. This is not surprising since ciBantu and ciKam share a common ancestor. Provide that we cannot put together the same series of correspondences between Middle-Egyptian and Tigrigna, the word halawi can only be considered a look-a-like.
References:
Asar Imhotep. (2020). Aaluja Vol. II: Cyena-Ntu Religion and Philosophy. Madu-Ndela Press. Philadelphia, PA.
Asar Imhotep. (2020). Towards Comparative Dictionary of ciKam and Modern African Languages. Madu-Ndela Press. Philadelphia, PA.
Adolf Erman und Herman Grapow. (1971). Worterbuch der Aegyptischen Sprache. Berlin, Germany.
Posted by Rain King (Member # 23236) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: When we see Ausar, Asset, and Heru that is Nile Valley is it not?
As you can see in my above posts, the titles, Ras, Atse (Atseti), Emebet, and Halawi are still in use in Ethiopia and Eritrea today.
Geb you wrote to me, but you must have missed Ausar Imhotep's breakdown in this thread made specifically for you!
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Asar, thanks for building a great word list. I'll try to take each, one by one. It's easier for me to match to actual hieroglyphs than word lists, so I'll find the hieroglyphs and match to them.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Chiru
CH'ru (ጭሩ) bird (n.) (Tigrigna)
From Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs (2009), containing nearly 700 words matched between Amarigna/Tigrigna and ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. Download the free PDF edition of the Amazon book... http://files.ancientgebts.org/Amarigna_and_Tigrigna_Qal_Hieroglyphs.pdf Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Gwela/Gara
GW'ela (ጕላ) hill (n.) (Tigrigna)
gara (ጋራ) mountain (n.) (Amarigna)
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Relating to Being On Top Note: The actual word in a hieroglyphic sentence can help determine the exact word/meaning
halewe (ሓለወ) protect (v.) (Tigrigna)
hlwi (ህልዊ) afloat (adj.) (Tigrigna)
halawi (ሃለዎ) bear (v.) (Tigrigna)
kewele (ከወለ) cover (v.) (Tigrigna)
KW'eleye (ኵለያ) protrusion, something that is on top of something else (i.e., bump, lump, knob, hump) (n.) (Tigrigna)
KW'elaA' (ኵላዐ) polish, gild (n.) (Tigrigna)
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
This is why I worded it the way that I did. Notice that in the original image, he claimed that the word for Hr.w in Tigrigna was "halawi." Now, he provides another document in which he argues that that Egyptian Hr.w is "Chi'ru. Notice the difference in the arguments.
In Bantu and ciKam, I can account for both usages of G5 and G7.
G5 = "hawk" = Hr and nTr G7 = "hawk on standard" = Hr and nTr (can also be ns.w)
Both forms can be traced to a root akin to Proto-Bantu *kòd "be strong, be hard, be difficult" and *kódì "bird of prey; hawk species." The /ó/ in *kód explains why in Greek Egyptian Hr.w is rendered HOR.us, and why H.t-Hr.w is rendered HatHOR.
Notice that in Semitic, the word *da’y(-at) ‘bird of prey’ is simply rendered in Tigrigna as dah (also ’adha’) - ‘a bird’.
As discussed in Aaluja Vol. II (2020), Egyptian Hr, nTr, and kA are the same word, built from the same monosyllabic roots. Egyptian consist of CV monosyllables, which are built on by agglutination. This is why it is important to understand the grammar. The word Hr.w has the -w agent suffix, which is prefixed in Bantu as mu- and ng-.
When we look at the examples given by AncientGebts, we can see the inconsistency in his comparisons. This is why we make the lists like I showed in the beginning. Much of his comparisons are chance look-a-likes and doesn't account for the grammar inherent in the lexemes.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Please show me the hieroglyphs along with their meanings from an Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary.
I don't see the word "cut when ripe" in An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
The hieroglyph referred to as [H] can be [Q], [QW], [K], [KW], [G], [GW], [KH], [CH], [SH], [J], or [H].
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Can you please simply show the actual hieroglyphs?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
From The Ethiopian Culture of Ancient Egypt: Introduction (vol I)
No Hieroglyphic Character Represents Any Single Pronunciation Sound
Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic characters can be utilized to write out pronunciations sounds within groups of related sounds
The primary pronunciation sound is contained in the word for each hieroglyphic object
The primary pronunciation sound for each hieroglyph below is in bold
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
"Grain Loads" in the Rosetta Stone
Below is an example where the hieroglyph's primary pronunciation [Q] is for qulqulet (ቁልቁለት) "downhill", yet the ancient writer used it to write the word chanat (ጫናት) "loads", which begins with the [CH] pronunciation sound. Even the Egyptologist transliterates it as [G], which is okay as long as you have an understanding of the related pronunciation sounds that can be written with the hieroglyph.
Also notice that the [N] pronunciation was written with the [N] of gan (ጋን) "large jar", the large jars that were utilized to ship grain and other goods in.
Of course this is only one example of the uses of particular hieroglyphs that can be used to write related sounds.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Merkabat in the Underlying Text of the Bible
Below you will notice two different writers utilized different hieroglyphs to write the [K] pronunciation sounds in the word merkabat (መርካባት) "boats" (merkab is singular)(מרחפת and מרכבות)...
The hieroglyph comes for the word merkabat in the Rosetta Stone...
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: Please show me the hieroglyphs along with their meanings from an Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary.
I don't see the word "cut when ripe" in An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary.
That's because you only use Budge's dictionary.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
You are all over the place and it is clear with you assigning 8 different phonemes to each hieroglyph, which is why you make up meanings to words and can't find consistent matches to the forms. You totally ignore Egyptian grammar and none of your translations make any sense. Neither Middle-Egyptian, New Kingdom Egyptian, Demotic, or Coptic is a Semitic language and no amount internet magicianship is going to make it such. All these years and you still haven't learned the language yet. This is a waste of time.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
If it's a waste of your time, then why did I waste so much time responding to you? I'll make sure I don't respond to any more of your challenges, and don't challenge me again.
But to the point, I don't see you publishing any complete retranslations of ancient Egyptian texts using ciLuba. Why not? You can't match every word?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Here's one or your retranslations using ciLuba, available at your website...
Is this your only published retranslation? It seems like you simply follow whatever Egyptologists have translated, without any discoveries. If you are accurate in your identification of the living language of the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic language, you should be able to correct Egyptologist translations and show us some discoveries.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
From my retranslation of section/plate 1 of the Papyrus of Ani Free PDF edition download:
Column 14: Transporting Ani's body in secret to the tomb...
The Egyptologist version makes no sense at all and is just stupid, when you consider the solemn act of entombing an important person who has died...
My retranslation clarifies the sentence and shows the relationship of the written words to the painting...
Column 25 and 26: Ani's grieving wife accompanying Ani's body on the sled...
The Egyptologist completely ignores what the painting shows, which is Ani's grieving wife accompanying her husband's mummified body to the tomb...
My retranslation writes her back in...
Here we clearly see Ani's grieving wife on the sled...
What is the purpose of a retranslation with an African language, if there is no clarification of the message? Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: [QB] Merkabat in the Underlying Text of the Bible
Below you will notice two different writers utilized different hieroglyphs to write the [K] pronunciation sounds in the word merkabat (መርካባት) "boats" (merkab is singular)(מרחפת and מרכבות)...
why is the word hovercraft here? A hovercraft is very modern, powered by one or more very large gas powered engines
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
I show the words from the Israel-based Morfix Hebrew online translator, whatever the translator says. That's just what it says.
When you see a Biblical mechanical translation, they are very selective in the meanings they show you, because they are trying to fit the Biblical narrative. I don't want to portray that type of bias, so I show whatever the Morfix translator says.
You would have to write to Morfix and ask them. I'm sure you can understand that I cannot speak for third-parties.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
The point of the word was that it didn't actually mean hover in the air, as the Biblical translation tried to make it out to be. But, instead, the underlying word actually meant hover on the water (a boat). That's what a boat does.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
AncientGebts what is going on here. In the tomb of Rameses I there's this painting of him and on either side figures with human bodies and animal heads. What are they and what do they represent?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
It can be best illustrated by a bas relief done by the ancient Ptolemic Greeks in ancient Egypt.
As part of the ancient Greek propaganda to gain acceptance of the ancient Egyptian people during their occupation of Egypt, here we can see a bas relief carving implying that ancient Egyptian ancestors approved of the Greek invasion and occupation.
On the left we see Queen Mirtnesh (Egyptologist: Neith) of Lower Egypt with the red grain floret awn crown on her head, representing the large-scale farming she developed in the Dead Sea region of Lower Egypt. On the right, we see Queen Megabit (Egyptologist: Nekhbet) with the white upside-down shipping jar crown on her head, representing the first ancient Egyptian city that she developed in the Nile Valley of Upper Egypt (Nekheb) from an over-sized food market.
In the middle, we can see the Ptolemy king, with the basqemete crown (ባስቀመጠ meaning to "set something inside something else") on his head. This was to imply, to all the ancient Egyptians who saw it, that the two ancient queens from the founding period of ancient Egypt, approved of him.
We can see the hand gestures of the two queens, praising and sharing their power with the Ptolemy king.
In the Rameses I painting, we see similar approval and praise, one from the governor on the left and the funeral director on the right.
These are not humans with animal heads. As in most parts of Africa and the world, ancient Egyptians also practiced the art of masking. So, the actual people painted in the scene, as part of the entombment ceremony, wore masks.
Below we can see actual ancient Egyptian masks...
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Modes of Activity in Masking From, "Igbo Masks: The Oneness of Ritual and Theatre," by Onuora Ossie Enekwe Published by the Department of Culture, Federal Ministry of Information and Culture Lagos, Nigeria A Nigeria Magazine Publication
"The Igbo conceive of a mask...as the incarnation of the dead ancestors who continue to take an active interest in the affairs of their living descendants and relations."
"In the spirit world, the dead live as they had done when they were alive, the same social structures, family relationships and communions. The effort of the Igbo to actualize these beliefs about the relationship with the dead has eventuated in a very intriguing and vibrant theater."
"Since traditional Igbo people believe that Spirits are capable of animating any material object, the mask has been for them a vehicle up for the manifestation of the dead and other supernatural forces, including nature spirits and deities, as well as idols created by the imagination and reinforced by means of ritual and magic."
"The mask has a certain psychological effect on the wearer, and those with whom it interacts. The masker takes on the qualities or attributes of the ancestors, gods, or supernatural beings or forces, drawn from the myths of the Igbo."
"The man in the mask is transformed in physical terms also. When a mask is in motion, The spectators think mainly of the figure they see, that is, the mask itself. The masker seems to be transmogrified into the figure he is representing. Around the mask, "there is an aura of secrecy and make-believe, strengthened by the idea of hidden identity," which generates dramatic interest. The mask possesses a charismatic and totemic quality, but a mask is only what the people who own it think it is. Its power depends entirely on the sentiments and ideas with which it is surrounded by the community."
"What is common and fundamental to most traditions of masking is the concealment of the face and the head, for the face relates to the soul, while the head is the focal point of transformation and vital center of magic and power."
"As I have pointed out, the primary function of masking is to manifest the supernatural. The activities of the being or force manifested are supposed to reinforce the myth that spiritual beings and forces can appear among the living. Apart from this, the masks dramatize the manners and habits of the living."
"In all this, the intention of the performer is usually not to tell a story that is complete, whole, and which has a beginning, a middle and an end."
"The supernatural aspect comprises all activities that emphasized the otherworldly nature of the mask, as, for instance, when a mask is presented as an object of worship or sacrifice, or when incantations are addressed to it. The supernatural of the mask is also reinforced when it praises itself as all-powerful and when escorts and audience affirm that it is so."
"The dialogue between the mask and the member is, of course, highly conventionalized. Once it is over, the mask continues with the other aspects of the performance. The supernatural element is primarily suggested by the costume, music and other elements that support the mask. It is more overtly emphasized in those actions in which the mask encounters the audience directly."
"The mimetic aspect involves an imitation of life or an imagined activity... which involves the display of overt aesthetic skills."
"The third aspect, the display of overt aesthetic skills, usually comprises dancing, singing, acrobatics, magic, etc. This aspect, as we have already noted, usually serves a mimetic purpose..."
"In general, the three aspects more or less overlap in every performance... [such as] imitating an encounter between a spirit and a human being..." Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
From, "The Ethiopian Culture of Ancient Egypt: Hairstyle, Fashion, Food, Recipes and Funerals."
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: If it's a waste of your time, then why did I waste so much time responding to you? I'll make sure I don't respond to any more of your challenges, and don't challenge me again.
But to the point, I don't see you publishing any complete retranslations of ancient Egyptian texts using ciLuba. Why not? You can't match every word?
It's a waste of time because, as stated previously, you have had almost 10 years to learn the field of linguistics and you still do not understand the basics. As a result, you continue with these far flung comparisons, which show no consistency and ignores the rules of the language under study.
When confronted about your mistakes, you then go on to either 1) refuse to answer direct questions regarding methodology, or 2) start spamming the post like Clyde Winters with a bunch of irrelevant information all in an attempt to not answer the challenges posed to you. So yes, it is a waste of time.
Either provide a comparative set of Egyptian and Tigrigna putative correspondences, identifying the phonetic logical equivalents, with matching meanings, or find something else to do. We will not be confused by your images of your made up matches and meanings and incoherent sentences.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף, primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Either provide a comparative set of Egyptian and Tigrigna putative correspondences, identifying the phonetic logical equivalents, with matching meanings, or find something else to do.
Sorry, I'm not a linguist. You know that.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף, primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
All this depends on who the particular ancient writer was. There was no standardized spelling back then, so writers (scribes, etc.) chose to write words their own way. You can see this, not only in my retranslations, but also in Egyptologist hieroglyphic word lists.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: As a result, you continue with these far flung comparisons, which show no consistency and ignores the rules of the language under study.
I may not be a linguist, but I hire language specialists and linguists related to the specific languages I'm comparing, which helps me understand and conduct comparisons.
Therefore, if I'm discussing any language, it is because I have hired native language speakers or linguists in that specific language to help me conduct comparisons, which includes...
Amarigna
Tigrigna
English
Hebrew
Biblical Hebrew
Aramaic/Syriac
and others
I also utilize online sources to compare languages, including the WALS Online website that allows for the comparison of 2,662 languages and language features around the world. The World Atlas of Language Structures (WALS) is a large database of structural (phonological, grammatical, lexical) properties of languages gathered from descriptive materials (such as reference grammars) by a team of 55 authors.
You find the features or chapters of WALS through the items "Features" and "Chapters" in the navigation bar.
You can also browse and search for languages through the item "Languages" on the navigation bar.
You can search for references through the item "References", and once you have navigated to a particular feature, you see a second navigation bar with citation information and various export options.
A description of changes from previous editions is available through the item "Changes".
WALS Online has a tool that allows for linguistic comparisons of attributes for languages around the world including Amarigna, Tigrigna and ciLuba. For example, here is a list of attributes specific to ciLuba... https://wals.info/languoid/lect/wals_code_cil
Then, you are also able to compare specific linguistic attributes. Here is a worldwide comparison of Adjectives without Nouns... https://wals.info/feature/61A#2/27.7/148.9
You can change the parameters to compare 192 different linguistic features in languages around the world, including features such as...
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Either provide a comparative set of Egyptian and Tigrigna putative correspondences, identifying the phonetic logical equivalents, with matching meanings, or find something else to do.
Sorry, I'm not a linguist. You know that.
How in the Hell do you have the Gaul to plaster this shit all over the forum as though you know what you're talking about, but you cannot contend a direct challenge that is asking for the most essential information to your linguistic argument?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: How in the Hell do you have the Gaul to plaster this shit all over the forum as though you know what you're talking about, but you cannot contend a direct challenge that is asking for the most essential information to your linguistic argument?
Like I said, I'm not a linguist, but I hire them. And I'm certainly not going to post analysis here that I've paid good money for from them, simply to satisfy your stubborn curiosity. Whatever I post doesn't matter to any of you, so why would I post what you want to know for free?
If you saw from the 2-week HallOfMaat.com discussion, I don't answer those types of technical questions you're asking, for people whose only objective is to ridicule and belittle my work.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
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Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
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Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: ... but you cannot contend a direct challenge that is asking for the most essential information to your linguistic argument?
Didn't you read what he said? He said talking to me is a waste of time and he's always had this attitude with my work. This is why I won't post what he's asking for.
I used to discuss with him technical details on Yahoo Messenger, back when I was publishing my first book in 2009, he was open and objective. But he's a different person now. So I have to treat his questions and challenges as what they are -- simply a path to ridicule and belittle my work.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
In fact, the only respectful people on EgyptSearch are The Lioness and sometimes Tukuler. Everybody else seems to be xenophobic and racist against Ethiopians.
If I said the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic language was a West African language --any West African language -- I'd be treated totally different. But the xenophobia is allowed to persist by the moderators, along with the despicable tone, foul language and bullying language.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
I have known and funned w/Semitic speaking Ethiopians since 1969. Worku and Haille-Miriam families particularly during university. A few Beta Israel since then including mengsties and a Xian Semitic Ethiopian who may've been Falas Mura(sp). Oh did I forget multi-linguist Dr Ephraim Issac whom I often disagree with?
Respect's given as received. I will warn then if still getting dissed will retaliate in kind. No doormat me. "If someone comes to kill you, quick kill them first!".
=-=
ES ADMIN & MODs are making ES what they will. Rey has that right after successfully making deals with OWNER Sami. I don't think they are at all receptive of user initiated protocols.
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
No, that is absolutely incorrect. It depends on no such thing. Nor can you provide ancient Hebrew examples of such mishmoshings from any Canaanitic texts much less so in either the Judaean or Samaritan Hhumash.
Modern Hebrew isn't ancient Hebrew. Israels in Yemen speak pristine Hebrew. Jews of Europe mostly speak[*] High German lexified with Hebrew. This Yiddish influenced the Ashkenazi creation of modern Hebrew.
If someone doesn't actually know a lick of Hebrew at all how can one make any rational claims about the tongue?
If it was accurate your reply shoots itself in the foot as according to you the spelling is unstable meaning all words are in error including the ones you select.
Because you haven't even studied rudimentary Hebrew you have no idea of גמטריא.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler:
That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף, primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
All this depends on who the particular ancient writer was. There was no standardized spelling back then, so writers (scribes, etc.) chose to write words their own way. You can see this, not only in my retranslations, but also in Egyptologist hieroglyphic word lists.
.
[*] There are Hebraized Latin tonques by Spanish&Portuguese Jewry. S&P Jewry included West African origin Jews in Iberia. In former Dutch WI/SA West African origin Jews created their own Hebrew related lect, Djo Tongo. I've had no success with it since Minister Louis Gerstein passed. He knew and could speak it. I can locate no African Hollanders from the former Dutch West Indies who have so little as even heard about Djo Tongo.
Black History lost stolen strayed
Posted by Tukuler (Member # 19944) on :
quote:That first word is מְרַחֶפֶת, m*rahhepheth. It's first applied to a 'force' about to interact with the 'waters'. The root's, רַחֵף , primary definition is hover/float in the sense of 'brood' (as a hen does over her eggs) see B*reshiyth 1:2
That second word is מַרְכְּבֹת, mar*k*both. It's the plural of chariot.
quote: The two words מְרַחֶפֶת מַרְכְּבֹת are unrelated, sound different.
חֶ and כְּ aren't interchangeable. חֶ is a hard h sound, something like German ch. כְּ is a hard k sound no different than k in kite.
פֶ and בֹ aren't interchangeable. פֶ is a soft or aspirated p sound, f in Germanic languages. בֹ is a soft or aspirated b sound, no Germanic equivalent.
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Fire the 'scribe' who mistakes one word for another that no way sounds like it and is inept enough to substitute h for k and p for b.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: Like I said, I'm not a linguist, but I hire them.
AncientGebts if you start paying some freelance linguist to associate Tigrigna and Amarigna to Egyptian or Hebrew if they say "I don't think these connections make sense you are asking me to work on" Then they might lose the job. How come you haven't gotten some professional linguist to agree with your theory and for them to submit an article to a peer reviewed science journal so that other professional linguists can judge it? There are also open access journals that are not peer reviewed but it would be better than nothing. Where is there a published work other than your own anywhere that supports your theory?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs for Beginners: Perfect for Travelers To Egypt and Students of Ancient Gebts
Gebts is the ancient name of Egypt. Now you can properly read the hieroglyphs properly for yourself in the Amarigna and Tigrigna languages. These two languages are of the Amara and Akele-Gezai merchants, from today's regions of Ethiopia and Eritrea, who founded ancient Gebts 5100 years ago. After 20 years of research, this book corrects Egyptologists' hieroglyphic pronunciation and spellings mistakes. These corrections have allowed the hieroglyphic language to finally be matched to these two languages. The Tigrigna-speaking ancient Akele merchants traveled to Gebts via the Red Sea, entering Gebts in the north. The Amarigna-speaking ancient Amara merchants, entered Gebts from the southern end of Gebts. When Gebts was divided into the "Two Lands," 5100 years ago, the northern Nile Delta was divided for the Akele to administer and the southern Nile Valley for the Amara merchants. This division is told of in the famous "Shabaka Stone" inscription. Over the following years, the Akele and Amara would mostly jointly rule ancient Gebts. This was until the so-called "New Kingdom" period of King Tut's Akele family line, which exclusively ruled Gebts from about 1500 BC to 1069 BC (Akele kings have a falcon in their names). Shortly following, around 900 BC, hieroglyphs suddenly appear in Akele-Guzay, Eritrea (the "Akele-Guzay script," which has been improperly labeled "South Arabian script" - not having been found in South Arabia for another 100 years after). The ancient Akele merchants having co-developed hieroglyphs with the Amara merchants, it is not surprising to see hieroglyphs in Akele-Guzay shortly at the end of the exclusive Akele rule - possibly a sign that many Akele returned home after thousands of years. Travelers to Egypt and students will especially benefit from this book. Background: Modern Egyptologists, unlike their ancient Greek historian counterparts, did not know how to read hieroglyphs until after they discovered the so-called "Rosetta Stone" in 1799, which helped them learn to decipher the hieroglyphs. But Greek historians did know the history of ancient Gebts, including that of the hieroglyphs origin and their connection to the people of today's Ethiopia and Eritrea. Ancient Greek historians, such as Diodorus Siculus of 100 BC, knew without prejudice that the ancient Ethiopians founded ancient Gebts and that hieroglyphic writing was of Ethiopian origin. As Diodorus writes, "They say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians... and the forms of their letters are Ethiopian." But modern day Egyptologists, beginning in 1799 with the discovery of the 197 BC Rosetta Stone, mistakenly assigned so many wrong sounds to various hieroglyphic letters, though mostly subtle, that they rendered the hieroglyphic language unable to be matched to any Ethiopian or other language, calling it a "dead" language. This was partly due to the ancient Greek military rulers of ancient Gebts who, in 197 BC, had the propaganda message of the Rosetta Stone inscribed by their own priests. The Greeks, foreigners to Gebts, as well as to the Amarigna and Tigrigna languages, could not properly pronounce ancient Gebts words properly. And since proper spelling completely relied on proper pronunciation prior to spelling, the Greek military unknowingly transferred their pronunciation mistakes to the hieroglyphic portion of their propaganda message. Nearly two thousand years later, when modern day Egyptologists found the stone tablet and began translating the hieroglyphic message on the stone, they were already handicapped by the earlier Greek military spelling mistakes. Therefore, this book is an important part of the evolution in accurate hieroglyphic translation. More importantly, reading the hieroglyphs in Amarigna and Tigrigna provides the student, researcher, or traveler a fuller understanding, and in proper cultural context, of what the hieroglyphs can reveal about ancient Gebts, its people, and its culture (less)
So when these merchants from Ethiopia went to Egypt 5,000 years ago was there anybody already living there?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Modern Hebrew isn't ancient Hebrew.
Exactly.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Fire the 'scribe' who mistakes one word for another that no way sounds like it and is inept enough to substitute h for k and p for b.
The thing I respect about you is that you analyze and critique individual words I publish or post. This is why I come into forums with individuals that have different views than my own.
I don't need to have conversations with people who only agree with me. What can I learn from that? I can hire yes men. But that's not my aim.
Do people here subjecting me to all this abuse and foul language the Mods allow think I don't know what I'm in for posting on this site? The hatred for my work is clear. I know what I'll be subjected to, clearly.
In fact, I post free PDF editions of my books, which cost between $14.95 and $34.95 on Amazon, and people like Asar say I'm spamming. If I didn't give the PDF editions for free, he would say I'm only coming here to sell books. There's no respect for anything I do here. But I know prior to posting. I'm a big boy, so I can take it, but I never stay for too long getting bullied, insulted and beat up.
People who are simply outraged at my work and give general statements of outrage are of no value, to either them nor to me. It's only through this kind of careful analysis and critique of each other's views -- word-by-word -- can anyone on either side learn anything (or on both sides) to advance their own work.
We don't need to agree with each other. If you know everything I know, one of us isn't necessary. And vice-versa.
Thanks for the careful critiques of my words, Tukuler. I really appreciate the time you put into it. After all, you could be doing something else more enjoyable than critiquing my words.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: AncientGebts if you start paying some freelance linguist to associate Tigrigna and Amarigna to Egyptian or Hebrew if they say "I don't think these connections make sense you are asking me to work on" Then they might lose the job.
They don't lose the job. Why would I hire them to agree with me? That would be a waste of my money, especially since they are not publishing articles for me.
I fire them if they do not disagree with me. And when they disagree with me, I pay them to tell me why.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: How come you haven't gotten some professional linguist to agree with your theory
Because nobody can speak for my work other than myself. It is a novel approach to ancient languages, and I like it that way.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: There are also open access journals that are not peer reviewed but it would be better than nothing.
I have an article in a journal, and I have received requests for articles from other journals ever since. All the products I market have articles published in trade journals, ever since my first product at 23 years old.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Where is there a published work other than your own anywhere that supports your theory?
I don't expect my work to be accepted or taken seriously in my lifetime. Maybe not for years and years after that, if ever at all.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So when these merchants from Ethiopia went to Egypt 5,000 years ago was there anybody already living there?
Of course there were, as Diodorus Siculus points out. Ethiopians did not populate ancient Egypt and Egyptians did not populate Ethiopia.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs for Beginners: Perfect for Travelers To Egypt and Students of Ancient Gebts
You didn't post the preface of that book, which was written by Dr. Fikre Tolossa, an Ethiopian PhD in Literature and professor. It is an example of how I don't care for people who simply agree with me. And in the preface he wrote, which I published in my first book, he doesn't state any agreement with me. It proves I am not looking for agreement, even from Ethiopian PhDs.
PREFACE This dictionary attempts to provide proof that the ancient language of the Egyptians, whose alphabet is known as the hieroglyphs, had something to do with the Ethiopian and Eritrean languages, Amharic and Tigrigna. According to the author, the vocabulary and concepts of Amharic and Tigrigna are concealed in the hieroglyphs. A person who can read hieroglyphs and knows Amharic and Tigrigna can decipher the mystery hidden behind the hieroglyphs.
While it will be a great surprise to the world at large if Mr. Legesse Allyn’s discovery proves to be valid, it might not be that big of a surprise to Ethiopians and Eritreans in particular. This is because it is a known fact that ancient people of today's regions of Ethiopia and Eritrea have ruled Egypt. Given this fact, it is no wonder if they had left their impact and contribution to Egyptian civilization in a much broader sense, even from its beginnings, as Mr. Legesse Allyn asserts.
Mr. Legesse Allyn is not a conventional Egyptologist per se, even though he has been studying Egypt and the hieroglyphs for the past 20 years. The truth that he is of Ethiopian descent has contributed immensely to the understanding of his claims. If one considers him to be an amateur Egyptologist, history has revealed amateurs who have discovered or invented new things which experts in a given field failed to discover or invent.
As such, if his discovery is real, it is phenomenal and revolutionary. Its impact on the study of hieroglyphs, Amharic and Tigrigna languages, as well as on the history of Egypt, Ethiopia, and Eritrea, is tremendous. Moreover, open-minded Egyptologists, as well as those who study the regions of today's Ethiopia and Eritrea, can benefit a lot from his work. Even the skeptics will have to examine it before they decide to reject or accept it.
If I were an Egyptologist (or even an Ethiopist), I would grab this book immediately and read it frantically. I would also be prompted to study right away Ethiopian and Eritrean languages, such as Amharic and Tigrigna, to delve into the world Mr. Legesse Allyn asserts his research has uncovered.
Fikre Tolossa, Ph.D. Literature Ethiopian Poet-Playwright July 29, 2009 Vallejo, California
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Where is there a published work other than your own anywhere that supports your theory?
The minute people begin agreeing with me, they'll be plagiarizing my work as their own. So for me to continue my work, it is easier that people remain skeptical. That way I don't have to worry about anybody stealing from me.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So when these merchants from Ethiopia went to Egypt 5,000 years ago was there anybody already living there?
Of course there were, as Diodorus Siculus points out. Ethiopians did not populate ancient Egypt and Egyptians did not populate Ethiopia.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs for Beginners: Perfect for Travelers To Egypt and Students of Ancient Gebts
Gebts is the ancient name of Egypt. Now you can properly read the hieroglyphs properly for yourself in the Amarigna and Tigrigna languages. These two languages are of the Amara and Akele-Gezai merchants, from today's regions of Ethiopia and Eritrea, who founded ancient Gebts 5100 years ago.
a) Why did merchants from Ethiopia and Eritrea go into another place already populated and found a civilization and why not in Sudan which is their direct neighbor not Egypt?
b) Was this a military takeover? If there were people already in Egypt did they just foreigners come in and take over?
c) What was the language that Egyptians spoke before these merchants from Ethiopia and Eritrea arrived?
d) Why isn't there a much stronger similarity between Amarigna & Tigrigna and hieroglyphics? You say they are similar but why not highly similar?
e) Where do do these massive pyramids, temples and colossal statues and the technological ability to do it come from? Did that start in Egypt or did come from Ethiopia and Eritrea? And Sudan has more pyramids than Egypt. Why aren't architecture and monuments in Ethiopia and Eritrea more similar to Egyptian architecture and monuments. Even if you believe that Egyptian language is a form of Amarigna & Tigrigna couldn't it also be possible that these merchants but a new language but not the architecture an engineering types characteristic of Egypt?
f) Semitic alphabets like Hebrew and Phoenician , for the most part, are read without vowels, which is why even nowadays the overwhelming majority of Hebrew literature is written without vowels. The Ancient Egyptian script consisted of only consonants which is the case with all ancient scripts from the Pre-Dynastic and Early Dynastic periods of Egypt. Undoubtedly, they used vowels in spoken language for pronunciation. Nevertheless, they did not include any in their writing system. So isn't the original pronunciation which we can only speculate on not needed to determine the meaning of a word?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: a) Why did merchants from Ethiopia and Eritrea go into another place already populated and found a civilization and why not in Sudan which is their direct neighbor not Egypt?
You already know I am not a historian, so I can only speculate. Which I am happy to do.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
I don't want to be trapped quoting ancient writers and then having their information invalidated. I've been through that here on EgyptSearch. It's just more fuel to the fire already burning bright here.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: d) Why isn't there a much stronger similarity between Amarigna & Tigrigna and hieroglyphics? You say they are similar but why not highly similar?
I never have said similar. I always say that Amarigna/Tigrigna are the languages of the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: I don't want to be trapped quoting ancient writers and then having their information invalidated. I've been through that here on EgyptSearch. It's just more fuel to the fire already burning bright here.
several other anthropology questions there where you would not have to rely on historians
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: several other anthropology questions there where you would not have to rely on historians
But I'm not an anthropologist, and I haven't yet hired one. So, there's no way I can give any kind of informed or scrutinized opinion.
Posted by Asar Imhotep (Member # 14487) on :
Notice, he's not an anthropologist, a historian, or linguist, yet he is trying to convince the public on matters in which he would need the tools and methods of these disciplines to convince the public. Because he has no background, even autodidactic, in these disciplines, it is easy for him to convince people who don't know any better, but when he comes across people who are serious about these studies, and who know ancient Egyptian studies in particular, he feels that he can proselytize his work without answering seriously questions concerning his work. And when his work is not convincing to anyone, he accuses them of hate and tries to ignore the arguments against his claims.
These same arguments he is proposing now are the same arguments he had nearly a decade ago; and just like then, he still doesn't have answers to the claims.
Firstly, we all know that Ethiopia in ancient times wasn't modern Ethiopia or Eritrea. Secondly, Amarigna and Tigrigna are Semitic languages, and do not originate in modern Ethiopia. It is an adaptation and modification of Semitic languages that originated in modern Asia, that came to Africa via South Arabia. He can never answer how these random merchants from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea came to Egypt, gave it its language, ruled, etc., but we find no evidence whatsoever in the realms of artifacts, language, iconography, or culture; just a bunch of trade vocabulary that is shared throughout the region.
He claimed in earlier conversations that the Amarigna and Tigrigna speakers rule Egypt from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea. Yet, we don't find one hieroglyph inscription in this area, no common kingship similarities, no burial commonalities, no common architectural similarities, no common mythologies, common grammar, morphology, or even sense of graphic artistry in Ethiopia/Eritrea. But we are to believe that these people, who couldn't do anything we find in ancient Egypt, left their homeland to trade perishable goods, and create an entire civilization from scratch in another territory that they couldn't even pull off at home. Here we have all this evidence of the building of Egyptian culture from the Sahara and Sudan, but NONE of these common ideas in Ethiopia/Eritrea among Amarigna/Tigrigna speakers, and we are to ignore actual artifacts, burial cites, language studies, because a random dude from Eritrea believes that he can change the entire history of people by using inconsistent, made up vocabulary matches, between Egyptian and a Semitic language, which all linguists have debunked that Egyptian is Semitic. The latter speaks to his argument that the Egyptian language is in fact both Amarigna and Tigrigna.
Yet, we are on page two right now and he still hasn't answered the challenge and believes that if he just posts a bunch of other irrelevant content that we will forget the focus of this thread and forget our questions to you.
Can you, AncientGebts, provide a comparative list that will show consistently the reoccurring, non-accidental sound-meaning correspondences between the Egyptian base sets of H-r and n-T-r with forms in Tigrigna, where the two consonant root for the putative correspondences are the same and can apply to both Egyptian H-r and n-T-r in the same way that I am able to show with ciLuba-Bantu using the same consonant sequence? Note that my demonstrations shows the following:
Egyptian : ciLuba H-r : k-l n-T-r : n-k-l
Advance studies shows why ciLuba k-l corresponds to both Egyptian H-r and T-r (in nTr) because the proto-initial consonant was k-, which in Egyptian split into /H-/ and /T-/ (palatalization). The ciLuba /-l/ and Egyptian /-r/ both probably derive from a coronal such as /t/. In Bantu the intervocalic -t- weakened and became -d-, in Proto-Bantu, which primarily became /l/. But it is clear that some of the -r's in ciKam derive from /-z/, as the ciLuba evidence confirms. Everything makes sense when you do a serious comparison. But since AncientGebts is all over the place, and claims the Egyptian script was not standardized, and that they were substituting sounds all random, along with his made-up meanings for words, he is all over the place and his translations and transliterations make no sense.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: several other anthropology questions there where you would not have to rely on historians
But I'm not an anthropologist, and I haven't yet hired one. So, there's no way I can give any kind of informed or scrutinized opinion.
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
Amarigna & Tigrigna Qal Hieroglyphs for Beginners: Perfect for Travelers To Egypt and Students of Ancient Gebts
These two languages are of the Amara and Akele-Gezai merchants, from today's regions of Ethiopia and Eritrea, who founded ancient Gebts 5100 years ago.
so are you going to retract this statement where you claim that not only is Egyptian language from Ethiopia but Ethiopians and Eritreans founded ancient Egypt?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: so are you going to retract this statement where you claim that not only is Egyptian language from Ethiopia but Ethiopians and Eritreans founded ancient Egypt?
What is this, an inquisition? I stand by whatever I've published.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Notice, he's not an anthropologist, a historian, or linguist, yet he is trying to convince the public on matters in which he would need the tools and methods of these disciplines to convince the public. Because he has no background, even autodidactic, in these disciplines, it is easy for him to convince people who don't know any better, but when he comes across people who are serious about these studies, and who know ancient Egyptian studies in particular, he feels that he can proselytize his work without answering seriously questions concerning his work. And when his work is not convincing to anyone, he accuses them of hate and tries to ignore the arguments against his claims.
These same arguments he is proposing now are the same arguments he had nearly a decade ago; and just like then, he still doesn't have answers to the claims.
Firstly, we all know that Ethiopia in ancient times wasn't modern Ethiopia or Eritrea. Secondly, Amarigna and Tigrigna are Semitic languages, and do not originate in modern Ethiopia. It is an adaptation and modification of Semitic languages that originated in modern Asia, that came to Africa via South Arabia. He can never answer how these random merchants from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea came to Egypt, gave it its language, ruled, etc., but we find no evidence whatsoever in the realms of artifacts, language, iconography, or culture; just a bunch of trade vocabulary that is shared throughout the region.
He claimed in earlier conversations that the Amarigna and Tigrigna speakers rule Egypt from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea. Yet, we don't find one hieroglyph inscription in this area, no common kingship similarities, no burial commonalities, no common architectural similarities, no common mythologies, common grammar, morphology, or even sense of graphic artistry in Ethiopia/Eritrea. But we are to believe that these people, who couldn't do anything we find in ancient Egypt, left their homeland to trade perishable goods, and create an entire civilization from scratch in another territory that they couldn't even pull off at home. Here we have all this evidence of the building of Egyptian culture from the Sahara and Sudan, but NONE of these common ideas in Ethiopia/Eritrea among Amarigna/Tigrigna speakers, and we are to ignore actual artifacts, burial cites, language studies, because a random dude from Eritrea believes that he can change the entire history of people by using inconsistent, made up vocabulary matches, between Egyptian and a Semitic language, which all linguists have debunked that Egyptian is Semitic. The latter speaks to his argument that the Egyptian language is in fact both Amarigna and Tigrigna.
Yet, we are on page two right now and he still hasn't answered the challenge and believes that if he just posts a bunch of other irrelevant content that we will forget the focus of this thread and forget our questions to you.
Can you, AncientGebts, provide a comparative list that will show consistently the reoccurring, non-accidental sound-meaning correspondences between the Egyptian base sets of H-r and n-T-r with forms in Tigrigna, where the two consonant root for the putative correspondences are the same and can apply to both Egyptian H-r and n-T-r in the same way that I am able to show with ciLuba-Bantu using the same consonant sequence? Note that my demonstrations shows the following:
Egyptian : ciLuba H-r : k-l n-T-r : n-k-l
Advance studies shows why ciLuba k-l corresponds to both Egyptian H-r and T-r (in nTr) because the proto-initial consonant was k-, which in Egyptian split into /H-/ and /T-/ (palatalization). The ciLuba /-l/ and Egyptian /-r/ both probably derive from a coronal such as /t/. In Bantu the intervocalic -t- weakened and became -d-, in Proto-Bantu, which primarily became /l/. But it is clear that some of the -r's in ciKam derive from /-z/, as the ciLuba evidence confirms. Everything makes sense when you do a serious comparison. But since AncientGebts is all over the place, and claims the Egyptian script was not standardized, and that they were substituting sounds all random, along with his made-up meanings for words, he is all over the place and his translations and transliterations make no sense.
If I held you to prove all these things you causally plaster regarding Ethiopia on this page, you could never do it. I wouldn't even get into a conversation about Ethiopia and Eritrea with you, because you know nothing about what your nimble fingers are typing. I guess that would be a waste of my time.
Thanks for providing me another topic on which I can provide free PDF editions of my books to people interested in downloading them.
Posted by Rain King (Member # 23236) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: Notice, he's not an anthropologist, a historian, or linguist, yet he is trying to convince the public on matters in which he would need the tools and methods of these disciplines to convince the public. Because he has no background, even autodidactic, in these disciplines, it is easy for him to convince people who don't know any better, but when he comes across people who are serious about these studies, and who know ancient Egyptian studies in particular, he feels that he can proselytize his work without answering seriously questions concerning his work. And when his work is not convincing to anyone, he accuses them of hate and tries to ignore the arguments against his claims.
These same arguments he is proposing now are the same arguments he had nearly a decade ago; and just like then, he still doesn't have answers to the claims.
Firstly, we all know that Ethiopia in ancient times wasn't modern Ethiopia or Eritrea. Secondly, Amarigna and Tigrigna are Semitic languages, and do not originate in modern Ethiopia. It is an adaptation and modification of Semitic languages that originated in modern Asia, that came to Africa via South Arabia. He can never answer how these random merchants from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea came to Egypt, gave it its language, ruled, etc., but we find no evidence whatsoever in the realms of artifacts, language, iconography, or culture; just a bunch of trade vocabulary that is shared throughout the region.
He claimed in earlier conversations that the Amarigna and Tigrigna speakers rule Egypt from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea. Yet, we don't find one hieroglyph inscription in this area, no common kingship similarities, no burial commonalities, no common architectural similarities, no common mythologies, common grammar, morphology, or even sense of graphic artistry in Ethiopia/Eritrea. But we are to believe that these people, who couldn't do anything we find in ancient Egypt, left their homeland to trade perishable goods, and create an entire civilization from scratch in another territory that they couldn't even pull off at home. Here we have all this evidence of the building of Egyptian culture from the Sahara and Sudan, but NONE of these common ideas in Ethiopia/Eritrea among Amarigna/Tigrigna speakers, and we are to ignore actual artifacts, burial cites, language studies, because a random dude from Eritrea believes that he can change the entire history of people by using inconsistent, made up vocabulary matches, between Egyptian and a Semitic language, which all linguists have debunked that Egyptian is Semitic. The latter speaks to his argument that the Egyptian language is in fact both Amarigna and Tigrigna.
Yet, we are on page two right now and he still hasn't answered the challenge and believes that if he just posts a bunch of other irrelevant content that we will forget the focus of this thread and forget our questions to you.
Can you, AncientGebts, provide a comparative list that will show consistently the reoccurring, non-accidental sound-meaning correspondences between the Egyptian base sets of H-r and n-T-r with forms in Tigrigna, where the two consonant root for the putative correspondences are the same and can apply to both Egyptian H-r and n-T-r in the same way that I am able to show with ciLuba-Bantu using the same consonant sequence? Note that my demonstrations shows the following:
Egyptian : ciLuba H-r : k-l n-T-r : n-k-l
Advance studies shows why ciLuba k-l corresponds to both Egyptian H-r and T-r (in nTr) because the proto-initial consonant was k-, which in Egyptian split into /H-/ and /T-/ (palatalization). The ciLuba /-l/ and Egyptian /-r/ both probably derive from a coronal such as /t/. In Bantu the intervocalic -t- weakened and became -d-, in Proto-Bantu, which primarily became /l/. But it is clear that some of the -r's in ciKam derive from /-z/, as the ciLuba evidence confirms. Everything makes sense when you do a serious comparison. But since AncientGebts is all over the place, and claims the Egyptian script was not standardized, and that they were substituting sounds all random, along with his made-up meanings for words, he is all over the place and his translations and transliterations make no sense.
If I held you to prove all these things you causally plaster regarding Ethiopia on this page, you could never do it. I wouldn't even get into a conversation about Ethiopia and Eritrea with you, because you know nothing about what your nimble fingers are typing. I guess that would be a waste of my time.
Thanks for providing me another topic on which I can provide free PDF editions of my books to people interested in downloading them.
Wouldn't the burden of proof on YOU to actually prove that the Semitic speaking populations of Ethiopia have bio-cultural overlapping with Kemet? If I recall you couldn't provide any real examples of these similarities in the 7 pages of the cultural diffusion thread. On the otherhand I provided PLENTY of example of the Bantu/"Niger-Congo" speaking peoples having these similarities (which you eventually conceded to).
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:He can never answer how these random merchants from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea came to Egypt, gave it its language, ruled, etc., but we find no evidence whatsoever in the realms of artifacts, language, iconography, or culture; just a bunch of trade vocabulary that is shared throughout the region.
Anti-Ethiopian Xenophobia At Its Worst
If I held you to prove all these things you causally plaster regarding Ethiopia on this page, you could never do it. I wouldn't even get into a conversation about Ethiopia and Eritrea with you, because you know nothing about what your nimble fingers are typing. I guess that would be a waste of my time.
If your claiming of the ancient Egyptian culture to make up for the sins of slavery, a kind of reparations, something you can pirate like they pirated the millions of bodies of our ancestors during the slave trade, props up your ego and self-esteem, then so be it. They steal so you steal back. Culture revenge.
But the West doesn't care what you do, what you type, or what you say. The West only looks at you and considers you desperate. They'd rather believe it was aliens in ancient Egypt than you, so they produce TV shows, documentaries, and even children's cartoons to out-maneuver your grasping hands attempting to claim ancient Egypt as your own pirated and plundered loot.
But as you focus on ancient Egypt to prop up your damaged self-esteem from slavery, you ignore the rest of 4.4 million years of African history, archaeology, anthropology and genetics centered in Ethiopia. And you only ignore those millions of years because of your racist xenophobia regarding Ethiopia, from where that 4.4. million years resides.
Naturally proud, strong, and beautiful Ethiopians...
Australopithecus Afarensis - An extinct species of australopithecine which lived from about 3.9–2.9 million years ago (mya) in the Pliocene of East Africa. The first fossils were discovered in the 1930s, but major fossil finds would not take place until the 1970s. From 1972–1977, the International Afar Research Expedition—led by anthropologists Maurice Taieb, Donald Johanson, and Yves Coppens—unearthed several hundreds of hominin specimens in Hadar, Ethiopia, the most significant being the exceedingly well-preserved skeleton AL 288-1 ('Lucy') and the site AL 333 ('the First Family'). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_afarensis
Homo Sapiens Idaltu - Afar: Idaltu; 'elder' or 'first born', is the name given to a number of early modern human fossils found in 1997 in Herto Bouri, Ethiopia. They date to around 160,000 years ago. The subspecies H. s. idaltu falls under the umbrella of anatomically modern humans. Palaeoanthropologist Tim D. White and others consider the fossils represent the probable immediate ancestors of anatomically modern humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens_idaltu
So you blah, blah, blah your racist xenophobic banter and then attempt to challenge me. Really? How are your claims any different from the equally racist and xenophobic Western scholars, who would even rather imagine it was aliens than Africans?
And why would I answer your silly questions, when I've got 4.4 million years of Ethiopian history, archaeology, anthropology and genetics in the books textbooks, in documentaries, and coming out of the mouths and from the fingers of the world's foremost experts who recognize the contribution of Ethiopia and Ethiopians to the world and to mankind. You have too many real scientists to challenge -- challenge them first.
In current history, Egypt recognizes the vital and critical contribution that Ethiopia plays in its survival -- not West or Central Africa. Is Egypt threatening war with Congo or Nigeria or Cameroon over Ethiopia's water? No. Present-day Egypt is threatening war with Ethiopia over Ethiopia's water, just because Ethiopia is building another hydro-electric dam in Ethiopia and Egypt is afraid it will get less of Ethiopia's precious water and silt that it has depended on for its survival since ancient times.
If Cameroon and Ghana, and Congo and all these West and Central African countries were the source of ancient Egypt's greatness, why aren't they being threatened with war. It is because without Ethiopia's water, Egypt today and ancient Egypt would be nothing. Nothing at all. Present-day Egypt clearly understands the source of its greatness and ancient power.
But it won't be the first war with Egypt, and likely won't be the last...
"Egypt under the rule of the Ottoman Empire, led by Isma'il Pasha, the Khedive of Egypt, sought to expand his reign to the land of Abyssinia and control the Blue Nile... The Ethiopian–Egyptian War was a war between the Ethiopian Empire and the Khedivate of Egypt from 1874 to 1876, resulting in an unequivocal Ethiopian victory that accelerated the eventual downfall of Isma'il Pasha and dramatically reduced Egypt's prestige." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian%E2%80%93Egyptian_War
Sorry, but there's nothing in West Africa nor Central Africa worth Egypt fighting for.
Naturally proud, strong, and beautiful Ethiopia...
Semien Mountains - A World Heritage site whose highest peak is 14,872 feet and part of the Ethiopian Highlands, one of the few spots in Africa where snow regularly falls. These mountains catch the precipitation of the monsoon winds of the Indian Ocean, resulting in a rainy season that lasts from June until mid-September, causing the Nile to flood in the summer, a phenomenon that puzzled the ancient Greeks, as the summer is the driest season in the Mediterranean climate that they knew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semien_Mountains
Ethiopian Highlands - Called the Roof of Africa, with stretches of forest in their southern parts, they are very fertile and capable of three harvests a year. Flooding during the summer monsoon season erodes a vast amount of fertile soil from the Ethiopian Highlands and carry it downstream as silt, turning the water dark brown or almost black. The mountains of the southern Arabian Peninsula are geologically part of the ancient Ethiopian Highlands, separated by the rifting which created the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden and separated Africa from Arabia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Highlands
Lake Tana - also in the Ethiopian Highlands, is the largest lake in Ethiopia and the source of the Abbay River, also called the Blue Nile. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tana
Abbay River - Also located in the Ethiopian Highlands, supplies about 80% of the water in the Nile that flows into Egypt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Nile
Thanks for providing me another topic on which I can provide free PDF editions of my Amazon books to people interested in downloading them. Go challenge real scientists.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: Wouldn't the burden of proof on YOU
No, because I have nothing to prove to you. I'm simply sharing my information. Ask a scientist, if they'll talk to you.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
Posted by Rain King (Member # 23236) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: [QUOTE][qb]He can never answer how these random merchants from modern Ethiopia/Eritrea came to Egypt, gave it its language, ruled, etc., but we find no evidence whatsoever in the realms of artifacts, language, iconography, or culture; just a bunch of trade vocabulary that is shared throughout the region.
quote:Anti-Ethiopian Xenophobia At Its Worst
If I held you to prove all these things you causally plaster regarding Ethiopia on this page, you could never do it. I wouldn't even get into a conversation about Ethiopia and Eritrea with you, because you know nothing about what your nimble fingers are typing. I guess that would be a waste of my time.
He has not shown any "anti Ethiopian" sentiments by negating your bullshit argument that the Tigray are descendant from Kemet. You simply took it personal that he and others have called you out for making a bunch incoherent noise. Keep in mind also that it's not the entirety of the modern Ethiopian family that has a distinction from Kemet. The Oromo for one who do have a connection to Kemet, and their very name's translative meaning in Medu-Neter proves that.
quote: If your claiming of the ancient Egyptian culture to make up for the sins of slavery, a kind of reparations, something you can pirate like they pirated the millions of bodies of our ancestors during the slave trade, props up your ego and self-esteem, then so be it. They steal so you steal back. Culture revenge.
But the West doesn't care what you do, what you type, or what you say. The West only looks at you and considers you desperate. They'd rather believe it was aliens in ancient Egypt than you, so they produce TV shows, documentaries, and even children's cartoons to out-maneuver your grasping hands attempting to claim ancient Egypt as your own pirated and plundered loot.
Yes Yes Let the bitterness behind your bullshit all come out!!!
quote: But as you focus on ancient Egypt to prop up your damaged self-esteem from slavery, you ignore the rest of 4.4 million years of African history, archaeology, anthropology and genetics centered in Ethiopia. And you only ignore those millions of years because of your racist xenophobia regarding Ethiopia, from where that 4.4. million years resides.
Do you understand how full of shit you actually are. You want to believe in things that you cannot validate, but you get upset when people don't believe that same shit. In the cultural diffusion thread you had to admit that the Bantu is the descendant of Kemet, but now that Asar has called you out for your LINGUISTIC FORGERIES to ally your ethnic group with a glorious African history you want to imply that our relationship to Kemet is false. So are you a lying coward who had to wave the white flag when the debate was waging, and then turn around and later claim to have neve surrendered? If you conceded to the Bantu's being the centerpiece of ancient Kemet then why in the fuck would you turn around and deny it to throw an insult at us. You're really making YOUR GROUP look BAD with your cowardice, and dishonesty. YOU are the one who is SO DESPERATE to give YOUR GROUP a glorious African history that YOU are FORGING (according to every participant in the last thread) a linguistic relationship between the Semitic speaking Tigray and Kemet. YOU are doing this because YOUR people lack any notable great achievements in ancient history. YOUR people (The Puntites/Semitic speakers who reentered Africa) according to African scholars were a DESTRUCTIVE force to black Africa (attempting war with Mereo), and you keep shit going between yourselves and the TRUE aboriginals of the land and loyal Africans who are the Oromo to this day. Your SEMITIC SPEAKING ETHIOPIC populations were ENEMIES of the true descendants of Kemet that you now want to claim.
Now also you're talking this hot shit about slavery and all, and you present yourself to be "biblically astute" individual, but fail to see who the prophecies of the book point to as God's chosen people (I'm not even religious).
quote: So you blah, blah, blah your racist xenophobic banter and then attempt to challenge me.
Again he didn't say anything "racist" or "xenophobic" by simply pointing out that your Semitic speaking people WERE NOT THE KEMITES.
quote:And why would I answer your silly questions, when I've got 4.4 million years of Ethiopian history, archaeology, anthropology and genetics in the books textbooks, in documentaries, and coming out of the mouths and from the fingers of the world's foremost experts who recognize the contribution of Ethiopia and Ethiopians to the world and to mankind.
You keep trying to equate the modern country of Ethiopia that adopted the name "Ethiopia" during the second half of the 20th century, with the area that the ancient Greeks referred to as Ethiopia that encompassed not only all of the Africa, BUT EVEN ASIA.
Do you understand how desperate you are making yourself out to be by ignoring this damning context to your soul driven historical implications?
quote: You have too many real scientists to challenge -- challenge them first.
You're bragging about importing other people's expertise to validate your far flung theories of Kemet and the Tigray. Meanwhile YOU don't claim to be an expert in anything. What value does your opinion actually hold? The only two people who have engaged YOU have pointed out that you don't even know the basics about Kemetic language or the languages that you are trying to associate with Tigray.
quote: In current history, Egypt recognizes the vital and critical contribution that Ethiopia plays in its survival -- not West or Central Africa.
Oui
Note the map above that specifically notes "Ethiopia" as Central-West Africa, and the current Atlantic Ocean of West Africa being named the "Ethiopian Ocean". You ARE DESPERATE to appropriate our history and heritage.
quote: If Cameroon and Ghana, and Congo and all these West and Central African countries were the source of ancient Egypt's greatness, why aren't they being threatened with war.
Sir....The attention of the white Western World was AIMED at the Bantu NOT the Nilote, NOT the Cushitic speakers, BUT THE BANTU. That is because the whites KNOW who we are, and what we are capable of. The whites KNOW that a certain period of time was prophecized to be a "down period" of the universe and subsequently OUR people (hence the Dogon mythology) who they know once dominated the World (hence our genetic finger print in the form of sickle cell is in EVERY CORNER OF THE WORLD). The negative attention of the World is on us, because WE are the center of the universe.
quote:t is because without Ethiopia's water, Egypt today and ancient Egypt would be nothing.
So now the ancient Tigray were responsible for the water of the Nile flowing up river to Kemet.
To think that you actually tried to block bantu shine in the last thread with this goofy shit.
quote: Nothing at all. Present-day Egypt clearly understands the source of its greatness and ancient power.
This is what the white people mean when they say "low IQ". Gotta give them some credit. Posted by Rain King (Member # 23236) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: Wouldn't the burden of proof on YOU
No, because I have nothing to prove to you. I'm simply sharing my information. Ask a scientist, if they'll talk to you.
No you're trying to IMPOSE your linguistic information on people unfamiliar with linguistics. Then people who ARE FAMILIAR with linguistics points out your flaws you run like a bitch. You keep making it seem like people are just "picking on you" because you're Ethiopian (as though Bantu's have a history of subjugating non Bantus), but that is not the case as we can all see.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: so are you going to retract this statement where you claim that not only is Egyptian language from Ethiopia but Ethiopians and Eritreans founded ancient Egypt?
What is this, an inquisition? I stand by whatever I've published.
the oldest written example of Amarigna is from 14th century A.D. and the oldest written example of Tigrigna is from 13th century A.D. Egyptian hieroglyphics go back to 3,200 B.C. or earlier.
Come on Gebts, what have you been smoking the past 30 years?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
I'm just not going to answer questions of people who act like they hate me and who disrespect me.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: He has not shown any "anti Ethiopian" sentiments by negating your bullshit argument that the Tigray are descendant from Kemet.
You are the person talking about Tigray (I never have). And I never said nor inferred that Ethiopians are descended from ancient Egypt -- that's ridiculous, when Ethiopians are proven to have been in Ethiopia for 4.4 million years.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: In the cultural diffusion thread you had to admit that the Bantu is the descendant of Kemet
Sorry, but I'm not an anthropologist, so I don't know who is or isn't descended from ancient Egypt.
Why is ancient Egypt so important to you? Just because of some failed pyramids that were not to achieve their intended purpose and because of that were no longer built? You're attaching yourself to failed technology and you think that makes you wise or cool? That's what's important to you?
I personally don't understand the attraction to ancient Egypt, when there are civilizations throughout Africa and the rest of the world that have longer continuity, in addition to architectural remains, writing, and culture.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Rain King don't be ridiculous, while Amarigna and Tigrigna may not be the linguistic ancestors to Egyptian at least Ethiopia is much closer to Egypt, is on the Eastern side of Africa like Egypt and part of the same river system as compared to West Africa. Also Punt was in that region, probably Somalia and the Egyptians have wall relief depicting Puntites.
West Africa is clear on the other side of the continent So the Persians take over Egypt and refugees have to go 2,000 miles away? , come on dun. And not a single one of them wrote any hieroglyphs on a piece of stone ??
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: [qb]In the cultural diffusion thread you had to admit that the Bantu is the descendant of Kemet
Sorry, but I'm not an anthropologist, so I don't know who is or isn't descended from ancient Egypt.
Why is ancient Egypt so important to you? Just because of some failed pyramids that were not to achieve their intended purpose and because of that were no longer built? You're attaching yourself to failed technology and you think that makes you wise or cool? That's what's important to you?
what was the intended purpose of the pyramids?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
It's hard to understand how the Mods allow the kind of trash-talking that goes on in here. There is zero respect for who you are raging at, and less respect for yourself for carrying on in such a way.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: Again he didn't say anything "racist" or "xenophobic" by simply pointing out that your Semitic speaking people WERE NOT THE KEMITES.
You obviously don't understand what the word "xenophobic" means.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Come on Gebts, what have you been smoking the past 30 years?
Look, you and I have dealt with my work and my claims in an absolutely challenging, respectful and constructive manner in the past. So I won't comment. I'm happy to see your posts based on our engagement in the past. I have absolute respect for you because of how you have always been respectful to me. So, I won't reply.
Posted by Rain King (Member # 23236) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: In the cultural diffusion thread you had to admit that the Bantu is the descendant of Kemet
Why is ancient Egypt so important to you?
So now you're asking why is the truth important? Maat is the personification of truth, and it is clearly not a virtue to you for that type of question to be asked. Meanwhile YOU are so desperate to claim Kemet as Tigrayan civilization that you are FORGING linguistic relationships between the two in a futile attempt to delimit the extent of the demonstrated relationship between Bantu and Kemet. You have the gaul to then turn around and question the motives of us (Bantu) who are speaking the truth! The same truth you had to fucking concede to. You're a fucking joke dude, and you are NOT reflecting well on your people.
quote: Just because of some failed pyramids that were not to achieve their intended purpose and because of that were no longer built? You're attaching yourself to failed technology and you think that makes you wise or cool? That's what's important to you?
You are PROJECTING YOUR motives behind trying to STEAL our history as the people of Kemet, as you conceded in the last thread when the evidence was smothering your ass. It's asinine for you to claim that it's only "big monuments" and shit that dumb ass cave dwelling soulless pink people put emphasis on that makes me point out the truth of our peoples founding and maintenance of the civilization. The evidence that I posted in the cultural diffusion thread dealt with Bantu/Bantoid CULTURE, and it's origins in Nile Valley civilization.
quote: I personally don't understand the attraction to ancient Egypt,
Yes you do! You wrote multiple shitty books on how YOUR people can claim Kemet. YOU want the glory for you and your people, but it's false. Again you are projecting your intentions onto me. You simply cannot accept the truth. You accept that you cannot refute it, but you have a problem accepting the truth.
quote:when there are civilizations throughout Africa and the rest of the world that have longer continuity, in addition to architectural remains, writing, and culture.
That is not my concern in this thread, and it shouldn't be yours. The vast majority of civilizations throughout Africa come from a period AFTER the fall of ancient Kemet and Nile Valley civilization. Why do you think that is?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: YOU want the glory for you and your people, but it's false.
pot calling kettle black
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: The vast majority of civilizations throughout Africa come from a period AFTER the fall of ancient Kemet and Nile Valley civilization.
Ho hum... That can be said worldwide, in Europe, Asia, the Americas, and elsewhere.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts:
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: The vast majority of civilizations throughout Africa come from a period AFTER the fall of ancient Kemet and Nile Valley civilization.
Ho hum... That can be said worldwide, in Europe, Asia, the Americas, and elsewhere.
He tries to imply that the fall of Kemet is related to other civilizations in Africa without evidence, that is false logic
Also he claims that apart from the Twa Central and West Africa were unpopulated beyond 2,000 years ago
yet people were in parts of Asia 60,000 years ago or more, Europe 45,000 etc etc.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
AncientGebts what was the intended purpose of the pyramids? I wont reply with a wise ass remark
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: AncientGebts what was the intended purpose of the pyramids? I wont reply with a wise ass remark
hahaha Thanks.
From my understanding, the pyramids were simply developed to be wide, so tomb robbers wouldn't be able to dig in from the ground, and high, so tomb robber couldn't break in from above. Tomb robbers were able to get in, despite that. So all those years each pyramid took to be built was a waste of time. So they stopped building them.
"One problem with putting a royal tomb inside of a pyramid was that it was hard to hide a pyramid. That made it extremely easy for grave robbers to find a pharaoh's tomb. Even though the punishment for robbing a grave was slow torture and death, many robbers were willing to take the risk, especially when it came to robbing the pyramids."
"Grave robbers, then as now, always had people ready to pay good money for stolen objects. In ancient Egypt, those people were often nobles and priests. Today, stolen artifacts are often sold to private collectors, antiquities dealers, and sometimes even museums."
"Because of their propensity to be plundered, pharaohs stopped building pyramids and began building royal tombs in secret places." http://www.historyshistories.com/egypt-tombs.html Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Ok so you dont have an alternative purpose theory, just the regular view that they are just tombs.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Ok so you dont have an alternative purpose theory, just the regular view that they are just tombs.
Before I read articles like the one I posted, I was already able to see that was the reason they stopped being built. Remember, my primary profession is as a product developer and I look at development from that perspective. If they stopped building them, there had to be a major problem with them.
Below, in my published retranslation of section/plate 1 of the Papyrus of Ani, I translated the 5th word afene, the actual word meaning, "kidnapped; kept in a strict secret"...
And because everything was done in strict secrecy, this meant that, as the other article stated, the burials became secret events, no longer public. The word meaning "kidnapped" shows that even the time and day of the taking of the mummified body wasn't known.
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: The vast majority of civilizations throughout Africa come from a period AFTER the fall of ancient Kemet and Nile Valley civilization.
Ho hum... That can be said worldwide, in Europe, Asia, the Americas, and elsewhere.
He tries to imply that the fall of Kemet is related to other civilizations in Africa without evidence, that is false logic
The entire context has already been explained Devil.
""Oral traditions of the ruling Abrade (Aduana) Clan state that Akans originated from ancient Ghana. The Akan people migrated from the north through Egypt and settled in Nubia (Sudan). Around 500 AD (5th century), due to the pressure exerted on Nubia by the Axumite kingdom of Ethiopia, Nubia was scattered and the Akan people moved west and established small trading kingdoms. These kingdoms grew and around 750 AD the Ghana Empire was formed. The Empire lasted from 750 AD to 1200 AD and collapsed as a result of the introduction of Islam in Western Sudan, due to the zeal of the Muslims to impose their religion, their ancestors eventually left for Kong (i.e. present-day Ivory Coast). From Kong, they moved to Wam and then to Dormaa (both located in present-day Brong-Ahafo region). The movement from Kong was necessitated by the desire of the people to find suitable savannah conditions since they were not used to forest life. Around the 14th century, they moved from Dormaa South Eastwards to Twifo-Heman North West Cape Coast. This move was commercially motivated."
The Akan oral traditions are saying that they did originate come from Nile Valley civilization, and as they migrated into interior they founded other civilizations. This is what I mean when I say that civilizations in Africa outside of Northeast Africa for the most part did not began to spring up until the contemporary populations there now began to move into place via migration from Nile Valley civilization.
quote: Also he claims that apart from the Twa Central and West Africa were unpopulated beyond 2,000 years ago
Devil is that myclaim or did I cite an authority on the matter?
quote:yet people were in parts of Asia 60,000 years ago or more, Europe 45,000 etc etc
The Devil is acting like his IQ is below a 70 again. This already been explained in the last thread.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: "Oral traditions of the ruling Abrade (Aduana) Clan state that Akans originated from ancient Ghana. The Akan people migrated from the north through Egypt and settled in Nubia (Sudan). Around 500 AD (5th century), due to the pressure exerted on Nubia by the Axumite kingdom of Ethiopia, Nubia was scattered and the Akan people moved west and established small trading kingdoms. These kingdoms grew and around 750 AD the Ghana Empire was formed."
unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000042627
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
What's really interesting, unless it is a mistake in transcribing the oral traditions, it states, that the Akan people migrated from the north "through Egypt" before settling in Nubia (Sudan).
Does that mean they began their journey north of Egypt, passing through Egypt on their southward journey to Nubia? Or did the person transcribing the oral traditions mean that they migrated from Egypt?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
I'm trying to get some ciLuba-speaking (Tshiluba) people living in Congo to join the discussion. In light of what you just posted, Rain King, and I read the article you posted about the Akan, it would be great to have some Akan people knowledgeable about this oral tradition, join the discussion. It's pretty fascinating to read about.
I produce TV shows in cities of African countries, and I might be able to arrange for ciLuba speakers and Akan in Ghana and/or Cote d'Ivoire to join the discussion.
This way, we won't be speaking about them, they will be able to speak for themselves.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
My current lineup of TV shows...
TV show series spotlighting the cities of a different African country in each episode... "African City View" Dakar, Senegal episode http://dakaracv.readytodoit.tv
You can watch the free-to-view TV shows from the direct links above, on my Roku channel (search the TV show title or Ready To Do It on your Roku device or Roku TV) or on my Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/AfricanCityView
The TV show I produce in Ghana above, you can hear them speaking to each other in Twi and some English.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King:
""Oral traditions of the ruling Abrade (Aduana) Clan state that Akans originated from ancient Ghana. "
The Akan oral traditions are saying that they did originate come from Nile Valley civilization, and as they migrated into interior they founded other civilizations.
No, read your own quote. It says that Akans originated from ancient Ghana.
""Oral traditions of the ruling Abrade (Aduana) Clan state that Akans originated from ancient Ghana. "
Once they originated from ancient Ghana they originated from ancient Ghana.
any mention about migrating later does not change the fact that is says clear as day "Akans originated from ancient Ghana"
If my IQ is under 70 yours must be under 50, get your reading comprehension together
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: He has not shown any "anti Ethiopian" sentiments by negating your bullshit argument that the Tigray are descendant from Kemet. You simply took it personal that he and others have called you out for making a bunch incoherent noise. Keep in mind also that it's not the entirety of the modern Ethiopian family that has a distinction from Kemet. The Oromo for one who do have a connection to Kemet, and their very name's translative meaning in Medu-Neter proves that.
That he uses his own people the Tigray as direct descendants of the Egyptians is funny considering that not only do they a speak Semitic language but genetically they are a little over half west Eurasian!
from Pickrell et al. 2013:
The frequency of West Eurasian alleles increases the closer a population is to the Red Sea coast indicating admixture via immigration from Arabia.
That said, I agree that those Ethiopians who have a better connection to Egypt are those Cushitic speakers especially the Agaw and especially the Beja.
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
Gebts who raps the beginning of the Painting Comedy?
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Rain King: He has not shown any "anti Ethiopian" sentiments by negating your bullshit argument that the Tigray are descendant from Kemet. You simply took it personal that he and others have called you out for making a bunch incoherent noise. Keep in mind also that it's not the entirety of the modern Ethiopian family that has a distinction from Kemet. The Oromo for one who do have a connection to Kemet, and their very name's translative meaning in Medu-Neter proves that.
That he uses his own people the Tigray as direct descendants of the Egyptians is funny considering that not only do they a speak Semitic language but genetically they are a little over half west Eurasian!
from Pickrell et al. 2013:
The frequency of West Eurasian alleles increases the closer a population is to the Red Sea coast indicating admixture via immigration from Arabia.
That said, I agree that those Ethiopians who have a better connection to Egypt are those Cushitic speakers especially the Agaw and especially the Beja.
You are such a hypocrite, now you are the only pulling out the genetics and saying people are half Eurasian. You prefer Rain King's theories ? He says "The Akan oral traditions are saying that they did originate come from Nile Valley civilization"
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
While so many people are so stuck on figuring out who the ancient Egyptians were -- who were just regular people like you and me -- you could actually be making history doing business in Africa.
I think the whole ancient Egyptian focus is an endless wasteful distraction, keeping you from doing something worthwhile and practical in Africa. You have to be able to move on. What a waste of time.
If the ancient Egyptians didn't build pyramids, nobody in the world would care about them, and neither would you. What a shame to waste so much time on a lifeless pile of failed stones.
Even if you're able to prove the ancient Egyptians were West Africans of today, where does that get you? How does that help you care for your family? Put food on your family's table or pay your bills?
I've not only moved on to figuring out the rest of the ancient world's writing, I'm doing business in cities of African countries.
What good is all this endless focus on ancient Egypt doing for you?
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Gebts who raps the beginning of the Painting Comedy?
"Philip Martin (born October 31, 1978 in Inglewood, California), better known as Bishop Lamont, is an American rapper from Carson, California. He was signed to Dr. Dre's Aftermath Entertainment record label, but left in 2010." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Lamont
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: You are such a hypocrite, now you are the only pulling out the genetics and saying people are half Eurasian. You prefer Rain King's theories ? He says "The Akan oral traditions are saying that they did originate come from Nile Valley civilization"
No, Giant twit! I'm not like YOU trying to white-wash or Eurasianize ancient Africans like the Egyptians. My reference was to modern Ethiopian people. And just because I debunk the claims of Gebet doesn't mean I go along with Rain King's claims. I didn't know I have agree with one person or another and not the facts. So no I am not a hypocrite or do I have to explain to you what that word means? LOL Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by AncientGebts: Bishop Lamont,
I heard the name before he sounded a little like Jay Z on that one
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
I think Africa today is much more exciting than ancient Africa. Culture in the cities of the nearly 60 African countries are far more interesting and exciting than piles of stones in the shape of a pyramids.
And who can tell me the languages I'm reading, writing and speaking are not the ones I'm reading, writing and speaking? Look to the past to capture your future, but don't get stuck in the past.
Posted by AncientGebts (Member # 17037) on :
People who want you to stay stuck in the past are tricking you out of your future, even if it is one of us. They want you focused on them and not yourself.
There was an African city in the movie "Black Panther", but there are hundreds of cities in African countries. But you don't see these same people who have you endlessly focused on ancient Egypt telling you about Africa today and the cities of African countries where you can visit, work, do business, and enjoy yourself.
The businesses you can start, invest in, or get involved with. The African designer fashions you can wear. The fun you can have. The African health and beauty you can feel. And tasty African food you can make yourself. While you waste endless hours debating who the ancient Egyptians were, Africans and their families in Africa are involved in business, trade, investment, fashion, food and fun on a local, national and international level... supplying the world with what it needs to survive.
All while you're stuck on the past.
I utilized our past to help LA gangs in 1992 get to their future. As part of the lead-up to the Los Angeles gang truce of 1992, I worked directly with the 18-year old organizer of the gang truce summits, Twilight Bey beginning in 1988, to rally the Bloods and Crips around a theme of unity. Although I wasn't affiliated with any gangs, part of the role I took on was to help provide the gangs with a marketing piece, based on our ancient past, to help them envision their future and help solidify their truce, based on ancient Egyptian history -- not for them to get stuck on.
They passed out thousands of the below pamphlet, which I developed for them, around Los Angeles county, until finally after a series of gang truce summits, the truce was solidified. At the bottom of the pamphlet you can see the copyright date of 1989, by United Africans International, my organization.
Jim Brown then replaced my role and brought them under his Amer-I-Can program, which was basically a labor union for the united gang members under the truce. In fact, they would meet at Jim Brown's mansion in the Hollywood Hills, the first of which Twilight invited me to in order to show me the level of success we had achieved together.
The biggest lie about Africa is not about whether ancient Egypt was not an black nation or whether its language was a "dead" one. The biggest lie is that Africa is a jungle and a "dark continent". Cartoons that portray Africans as cannibals with human bones in their hair and noses. These are the lies keeping you from knowing about our homeland, Africa.
In the mean time, the rest of the world is getting rich in Africa, happy that you are distracted with ancient Egypt's pile of stones in the shape of a pyramid. The carrot you can never eat.
Sub-Saharan Africa top 5 Export and Import partners (2018) The top five countries to which Sub-Saharan Africa imported goods, along with the partner share in percentage, are...
Sub-Saharan Africa imports from China worth US$45 billion, with a partner share of 16.47%
Sub-Saharan Africa imports from South Africa worth US$18.9 billion, with a partner share of 6.93%
Sub-Saharan Africa imports from India worth US$15.6 billion, with a partner share of 5.73%
Sub-Saharan Africa imports from United States worth US$13.2 billion, with a partner share of 4.84%
Sub-Saharan Africa imports from Germany worth US$12.9 billion, with a partner share of 4.74%
The top five countries to which Sub-Saharan Africa exported, along with the partner share in percentage, are:
Sub-Saharan Africa exports to China worth US$37.5 billion, with a partner share of 13.33%
Sub-Saharan Africa exports to India worth US$26.3 billion, with a partner share of 9.34%
Sub-Saharan Africa exports to Netherlands worth US$14.7 billion, with a partner share of 5.25%
Sub-Saharan Africa exports to United States worth US$14.6 billion, with a partner share of 5.19%
How much business do African Americans do with Africa, and what is our partner share of the trade? We have no partner share, because we are stupidly arguing endlessly over who the ancient Egyptian stone pilers were, which is so ridiculous. They have our self-esteem so destroyed that they can depend on us to divide and conquer ourselves, while they get rich off of Africa, our homeland.
So, be careful of those you hypnotize you with Africa's past, even when it's one of us. Because what you are missing out on in the process is your future. That's why I make the PDF editions of all my books available for free. So you can get the information in the books and move on into your present.
Find your place in a city of an African country. Why wouldn't you want to live in an African home, like what I show you in my TV show produced in the city of Lagos, Nigeria, "Your Nigeria Home"... http://yournigeriahome.readytodoit.tv
You are not trapped in America. For around $1000 round-trip you can visit (or move to) a city of an African country. And from JFK Airport, you can take a direct flight lasting less than 8 hours on a direct non-stop flight to the closest African cities. And it's always been this way, except that people have you distracted.
"My purpose in writing this volume was inspired by observations and research in surveying the serious economic conditions that confront the Negro of today in the most confused and complicated crises that has ever challenged human intelligence...
I discovered it was not even a problem, but rather the most misguided system of race relations in the world...
The Negro has been mis-educated about itself and misguided by its leaders. For the past fifty years, with only two exceptions, the Negro has not been given the true facts about its history and its future...
The lack of proper education is the fundamental handicap to a solution... The only background that the Negro youth gets of itself in the textbook is slavery and the wilds of the African Jungle which makes the Negro a subhuman, an outcast in society and an alien to the commonwealth of international brotherhood...
The Negro has no problem and there is no such Race as Negro, Negroid, and Negretto... This is the reason why the so-called Race Problem has not been solved, as the Negro has not found itself. It is lost, lost in the wilderness of a misguided system of education and a misguided leadership...
The object and aim of this volume is to show them the solution in the light of history, that they may find their own way...'And Ye Shall Know The Truth And The Truth Shall Set You Free.'" From "Ethiopia & The Missing Link In African History" by Rev. Sterling M. Means (1945)
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Oui
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