quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: ok, wrong choice of words. i am thinking of how the bible has been changed... ie, there still is the original bible, but there is also the modern bible, one which uses modern language and has certain, irrelevant parts omitted, and the rest much more applicable to our time.
posted by lovedone:
Who decides what's irrelevant? If I'm not mistaken, one of the reasons the Quran is so wonderful and why people respect it and love it so much, is because it *hasn't* been changed in all this time, and it is still the direct words of God. No one has messed about with it and tried to decide what they think God wants for "this day and age". The scholars can debate on the meaning of different parts of it, and to try to take meaning that bears relevance to today, but the text itself hasn't changed and shouldn't.
Mr Egypt Member # 10436
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: ok, wrong choice of words. i am thinking of how the bible has been changed... ie, there still is the original bible, but there is also the modern bible, one which uses modern language and has certain, irrelevant parts omitted, and the rest much more applicable to our time.
that's the difference between the Bible and The Quran. the Bible isnt God's word, so they omitted, added to it, some of it lost, some of its writers are unkown , etc. but the Quran is God's Word and I agree with lovedone that one of the reasons the Quran is so wonderful and why people respect it and love it so much, is because it *hasn't* been changed in all this time and it wont change until the end of the times.
Charm El Feikh? Member # 10243
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not sure why this is thread worthy.
"one of the reasons the Quran is so wonderful and why people respect it and love it so much, is because it *hasn't* been changed in all this time,"
yea.. great... now look around you and see whats happening. the politics, the laws, the way women are treated, the wars, rules, torture and abuse (i could go on)
all because your trying to apply centuries old text to modern life.
mr egypt. you yourself posted articles about the rape/ marriage of young children today to show that what was acceptable THEN is not so NOW.
"Who decides what's irrelevant?"
how about human beings who live ON the planet in the year 2006.
who decides what laws we should have? were the laws we have NOW around THEN? no.. they change, if they didnt we wouldnt have a functioning society.
islam COULD be beautiful, but not while it tells you to kill people who turn from it.
Charm El Feikh? Member # 10243
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well mr egypt... your 600 years behind them, and i cant see the world putting up with terrorism, violence and abuse for another 600 years.
i just wonder if muslims would rather loose their religion than agree that acting on certain 'instructions' from a 'manual' dont, cant and SHOULDNT apply to us now.
ChImPs_REVENGING Member # 10093
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THE WHOLE POINT OF THE QURAN WAS TO MOVE WITH THE TIMES PROPHET MUHAMMED (PBUH) NEW THIS AND YOU ALL STUPID BLOODY MUSLIMS KEEP GOING BACK IN TIME HE KNEW IT WOULD NOT BE A GENERATION OF HIS HE WAS TOLD THIS YOU SHOULD USE IT WISELY AND RESPECT IT BUT DO HAS TIMES ARE AND ADAPT IT THATS THE WHOLE POINT IF IT NOT USE FOR A SUICIDE MANUEL ..FOR FCK SAKE ID RATHER READ SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS..AND YOU DONT NEED TO CHANGE ANY OF THE QURAN TO LIVE IN A MODERN SOCIETY ,AND STILL BE PRACTICING YOUR RELIGION ..
Ichigo Member # 10434
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: well mr egypt... your 600 years behind them, and i cant see the world putting up with terrorism, violence and abuse for another 600 years.
i just wonder if muslims would rather loose their religion than agree that acting on certain 'instructions' from a 'manual' dont, cant and SHOULDNT apply to us now.
Charm Did you read your own history for the past 600 years? Do you know how much violence , terrorism and abuse your country had done to africa, middle east and asia?
Charm El Feikh? Member # 10243
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yes. and your point is?
Ichigo Member # 10434
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for the past 100 years only :
As for Britain, Oxford historian Elizabeth Monroe’s study, Britain’s Moment in the Middle East, concludes, “Measured by British interests alone, the Balfour Declaration was one of the greatest mistakes in our imperial history.”
Sir Arnold Toynbee, historian and a delegate to the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, wrote in his foreword to The Palestine Diary that there are Palestinian refugees because “Jewish immigration was imposed on the Palestinian Arabs by British military power . . . The tragedy in Palestine is not just a local one; it is a tragedy for the World, because it is an injustice that is a menace to the World’s peace. Britain’s guilt is not diminished by the humiliating fact that she is now impotent to redress the wrong that has been done.”
You are confused between Religion and Politics. when you talk about violence then you must remember its just a cause for the effect and not a cause by itself.
Charm El Feikh? Member # 10243
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i am not britain, you are not the middle east.
move on.
"You are confused between Religion and Politics. when you talk about violence then you must remember its just a cause for the effect and not a cause by itself."
no... when i talk about violence im talking about the atrocities that are committed in the name of allah...
the last time i looked allah was not a politician.
Ichigo Member # 10434
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: i am not britain, you are not the middle east.
move on.
"You are confused between Religion and Politics. when you talk about violence then you must remember its just a cause for the effect and not a cause by itself."
no... when i talk about violence im talking about the atrocities that are committed in the name of allah...
the last time i looked allah was not a politician.
he is not but you talk like one. you are trying to show part of the truth while hiding the whole truth. Allah didn't ask people to be voilent , take a look at the 1 billion muslims and you will know , but you only care about the 0.01% and accusing all muslims and even Allah (Islam) that it permits violence.
Ichigo Member # 10434
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?:
no... when i talk about violence im talking about the atrocities that are committed in the name of allah...
If you know that atrocities were commited in the name of Allah , but not really permitted by Allah , then why attack Islam and Allah?
Charm El Feikh? Member # 10243
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ah i see! so the people who commit these crimes in the name of allah have been mislead? how could this happen? they are following the word of the quran are they not?
Ichigo Member # 10434
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quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?: ah i see! so the people who commit these crimes in the name of allah have been mislead? how could this happen? they are following the word of the quran are they not?
They believe in their rights , and because they don't have a legal way to ask for their rights ,they use terrorism , and to suck the sympathy of the 1 billion muslims they try to cover under the name os Islam.
US and UK believe in their rights ( oil in middle east ) and to suck 2 billion individuals support they try to cover under the name of freedom ( anti-terrorism )
You are atheist ( no offence ) you believe you are right and everyone else ( Religious ) is wrong , so you try to cover under freedom of speech , and you are attacking Islam using whatever anti-islamic just to prove your point.
no one asked you to be muslim and no one asked you to prove anything but you keep talking about Islam and the atrocities , like the only thing that could be linked with Islam is atrocities. why? what you want to prove?
Charm El Feikh? Member # 10243
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actually, you are exaggerating. i dont KEEP talking about islam... and i am not attacking islam.
and as for me thinking everyone who believes in god is wrong.... well, to a certain extent thats true, but i dont really care what anyone believes, and if that belief makes them better people, well.. amen to that.
however, while following the word of the quran to the letter results in the mess we see today, then i do feel it should be updated... you see i agree that islam is a beautiful religion.... all religions are, i can appreciate that.. but the quran seems to be open to interpretation, hence we get all these islamic nutters, its too easy for them to use the word of god to commit these crimes.
these people may very well be terrorists first and muslims second... but while the rest of the muslim population refuses to make a stand against them by removing their excuse, islam will forever be fought over.
and ichigo... please dont imply that i attack, or continually talk about islam.... i dont care enough about it to feel that kind of passion for or against it or any religion for that matter. if it wasnt for the terrorists that actually have an impact on my life here in london, i wouldnt even have an opinion on the subject.
im not trying to prove anything... that would be incredibly naive of me to assume i could... but i could ask you the same question... what are you trying to prove?
ChImPs_REVENGING Member # 10093
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quoted by (Charm El Feikh? )
however, while following the word of the quran to the letter results in the mess we see today, then i do feel it should be updated... you see i agree that islam is a beautiful religion.... all religions are, i can appreciate that.. but the quran seems to be open to interpretation, hence we get all these islamic nutters, its too easy for them to use the word of god to commit these crimes.
these people may very well be terrorists first and muslims second... but while the rest of the muslim population refuses to make a stand against them by removing their excuse, islam will forever be fought over. --------------------------------
as a older older muslim seen the religion change in many ways ,and even other relgions to which we based from then i agree with her on this on ,has i said before the quran and many other books are used to ever ones advantage ,and as i said you have heard of ''chinese whispers it changes.....the whole point in a conversation and has a writer you write down and if you was to write i wrote with out copying and pasting it ,it would defeiniatly change and thats what has happened they have interped there own way to which it was written
is any one here a RADICAL MUSLIM OR A RADICAL DISBELIEVER..
Tibe Member # 10253
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quote:Originally posted by Ichigo:
quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?:
no... when i talk about violence im talking about the atrocities that are committed in the name of allah...
If you know that atrocities were commited in the name of Allah , but not really permitted by Allah , then why attack Islam and Allah?
I think its just that fanatics get to much attention in the media. When they shoot up in the air and sprees their hate speeches on tv. That really really scary. To a ordernary dane it was also very scary to witness the hate aimed at us fore thoose stpid cartoons printed in a free and undepended news paper. Lives where lost, ambassy burned, our flag/primeminister/queen's pictures burned stepped and spitted on in the name of Allah. I can not think of anything that would make me use this type of voilence (except childabuse). We would never have this kind of uncontrolled riots in the west. This lack of respect fore human lives really scares us.
Ichigo Member # 10434
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I totally agree with you Tibe. but i find it strange that you really care for the stupid acts of burning the flag and queen's picture.
To me the sequence went like this Stupid cartoons ( provocative to beliefs ) Stupid pride ( no one apologized nor clarified ) Stupid riot (burning the flag and queens's picture) Stupid defence for freedom of speech ( forgetting that no one is free to mock others )
Danish-Swedish dairy cooperative Arla, one of the Danish firms hit by the boycott, has published advertisements in Saudi Arabia where it distances itself from the cartoons and apologises to its customers.
Arla, Europe’s second largest dairy firm, has said the boycott of Danish goods in the Middle East will cost it $64 million on an annualised basis.
The Muslims didn't start but the Danes did.and if you can't swallow your pride then stop whinging.
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