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[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Conditioned: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Âutomatic For The People: [qb] We're getting very close. It can't be much longer now :D [/qb][/QUOTE]You know, what I like about Pigeon, is that she can argue and present her side of the debate without letting her emotions get out of whack....unlike you! :p [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Conditioned: [qb]You definition of radical Islam is anything you don't agree with. It's total westernization of we're all radicals.[/qb][/QUOTE]My definition of radical Islam mostly pertains to using [i]violence[/i] and other undesirable means against Civilians to make a statement or to influence events using force, all under the banner of Islam. [QUOTE][qb]Oh, it's fanaticism you're worried about. I thought it was all them radicals. The "rift between the Middle East and the West" is a ploitical and conommic one. It has zero to do with religion or idiology.[/qb][/QUOTE]Fanatacism and radicalism are the same in my eyes. Different words, similar meaning.. As for the rift, I disagree with you that it has nothing to do with religion or idealogy. Islam, unlike many other religions, penetrates virtually [b]EVERY LEVEL[/b] of Society, from the political to the social to the legal and even to the economic. So in this sense, Islam is not only a religion, but a distinct culture. Look at Saudi Arabia, and their Society as an example; although I admit that not all Muslim Societies take it to such extremes. But, Islam has alot to do with the current rift between the West and the Middle East.. It's undeniable as far as I'm concerned. [QUOTE][qb]But just for my own personal entertainment why don't you describe to me in very simple form as the reason for that so called rift.[/qb][/QUOTE]Now, if you think to trap me, I am not saying there aren't political reasons for this rift aswell. For example, the U.S's support of Israel among other things, has infuriated Arabs for years. Then there is the Colonial history with the old European powers and it's consequences, which can still be seen today.. Those do matter. Actually now that I think of it, it would be accurate to say that religion and idealogy never really became an issue until radical Muslims started attacking the West and or Western interests [b]IN THE NAME OF ISLAM[/b]. [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Conditioned: [qb]It is not dangerous for Islam it is dangerous for the west. Those "moderates" you're talking about have so far failed to combat the real threat and that is corrupt governments supported by the west. The threat you perceive as coming from Radical Islam is a result of that failure. People resort to Islam to unite them against a common enemy.[/qb][/QUOTE]Corrupt Western supported governments are a major issue I agree, but so are Islamic regimes. And the danger is definitely to Islam and Muslims, moreso than to the West. 9/11 spawned two conflicts over in the [b]MIDDLE EAST[/b], that has taken tens, or even hundreds of thousands of Muslim lives, innocent and guilty. You fail to realize that Western powers will do everything in their considerable power to stop Islamic militants from bringing the conflict to Western soil. Instead, they will send forces to the Middle East, an already volatile and chaotic region of the World, to get at the heart of the matter. Again, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq demonstrates this quite well. Should another major attack occur, the West will send even more forces into the Middle East, thus escalating the violence in the region even more. And what can the local governments do? Absolutely nothing, because they are outgunned big time and many of them like you said, are puppet governments for the West. [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Conditioned: [qb]Really! You still living in that fantasy land of yours. Ok, let's say Afghanistan was a result of 9/11. What did Iraq have to do with 9/11.[/qb][/QUOTE]Iraq? Iraq the nation had nothing to do with 9/11.. And although I personally think Saddam may have had something to do with it, I can't say so with any certainty. However, it is clear that Saddam did sponsor terrorism, and was actively courting Al Quaeda before 9/11 occurred. Whether these are grounds enough to go in and uproot him, I'm not so sure anymore to be honest. At first, I was 100% for the War, but in hindsight, I think it was too excessive a reaction.. The U.S could have used the billions we're spending on Iraq right now to improve security in the homeland or some such. Still, I'm not sure.. [QUOTE][qb]Moderate" Muslims, intellectuals and any one with any brain are being persecuted buy driminal regimes supported by the west and specifically the US. If the "west" is so interested in helping "moderates" it should at end it's support or better yet exert some pressure to help and protect those "moderates" you love so much.[/qb][/QUOTE]You're probably correct here. However, your statement fails to take History into consideration. For the longest, the West's primary interest in the Middle East was [b]OIL[/b], and because of this, they interfered in the local politics and installed or aided regimes that would support their need for the "black stuff," regardless of any other factors. But now, due to radical Islam, the focus has changed. The West may do as you say, and start to actively support moderate Islam. [QUOTE][qb]The problem with all your arguments, as always, is that they are completely void of reality. Anyone with any brain knows that the US and the west support governments for the west's benefit not to help moderates or combat "radical Islam". They routinely support Radicals, Extremists and criminals to suppress national movements. [/qb][/QUOTE]Actually, contrary to what you may believe Auto, I put alot of thought into my arguements and beliefs. I don't believe things for the sake of believing. I am fully aware that the Western powers are acting foremost in their own interest. I've never said otherwise.. Thats the nature of global politics though I'm afraid, and nothing will ever change that. ~Alistair [/QB][/QUOTE]
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