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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Politically Incorrect: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dalia*: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by LovedOne: [qb] I would suggest that if you have problems with the things that you quoted, that they are simply that, "your" problems. Best wishes in sorting that out. [/qb][/QUOTE]I find it strange and sad that you feel the need to personally attack me, especially after you were the one who started this thread which should remind us to deal respectfully with others, even if we disagree with them. I gave the link because I happened to know where it was, so everyone is free to read and form an opinion for themselves. I don't think there is anything wrong with me giving my personal opinion at the same time. Just like you, I have read the book. And I happen to have a different opinion about it than you. So what? I did not say you are having personal issues or try to insult you because you happen to like it. I have said I feel offended by some things in the text and I regard some of them as un-Islamic. Usually, whenever I criticize something, I give reference as well as reasons why; so everyone can see where my opinion is coming from and can agree or disagree. However, getting personal instead usually makes any kind of serious exchange difficult. You are correct, some things in this text *I* have a problem with, because *I* have never in my life been made to think or feel that there is anything I could not do or that I should be treated in a different way because I am a woman; I have never been made to feel I need to be obedient to a man and [i]"put his wishes and pleasures before my own"[/i], simply because he is a man; the concept of this simply seems bizarre and ridiculous to me. It has never occurred to me that God wants another person to control me or that my main goal in life should be a mother and wife, otherwise I should be lacking in fulfilling a religious duty. I also believe that I have a right to my body and my emotions; so the concept that I should be obliged to have sex with someone because this person supposedly has a greater right over my body than myself is likewise bizarre to me -- and very offending. The idea of a man forcing himself on me when I am not in the mood (for whatever reason!!!) is highly repulsive and disgusting. If you find that normal and non-objectionable, fine. But claiming this is a part of religion is a slap in the face of all women in this world who are suffering from marital rape and can't go to court because they happen to be living in a country where the laws give her husband the right to have sex with her anytime he wishes, because people like the author of that book claim that's God's command. Again, the concept of marital rape in Islam and whether the husband has the right to force his wife to have sex has been discussed on here countless times. And if you take a look at those threads you might see that it's not only *me* who has a problem with this concept. I'd say any woman with a healthy sense of self-worth would find this appalling. So does this mean I need "sorting out" because I don't comply with some mens' personal views on how the ideal woman or the ideal Muslima or the ideal daughter / mother / wife / sister should be? I don't think so. And it's a bit of a vain argument anyway because I know there are many people in this world who happen to share my point of view. Also there are enough men -- Muslim and non-Muslim -- who don't want their wife to be a slave who feels [i]"that a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face"[/i] and that she has to be obedient all the time and should somehow be inferior to him. Alhamdullilah! :) [QUOTE]Originally posted by LovedOne: [qb] I don't find taking care of my husband in the proper Islamic manner to be a chore or "degrading". I love him and am happy to please him in whatever way I can. [/qb][/QUOTE]I don't find it in any way degrading to take care of your loved ones, quite the opposite! But there's a big difference between lovingly caring for someone and the relationship that I see described in some parts of this book. Love, care and respect are things that need to reciprocal, they can't grow properly in a relationship where one partner is dominating the other and / or given more rights. If you want to be submissive to your husband, that is your choice alone. But claiming, for example, that a woman has to have sex with her husband whenever he wishes, regardless of her personal emotions, trying to make her feel guilty if she refuses, telling her she is committing a grave sin and God will be angry at her, that's a diferent matter altogether. Yes, I think it's very un-Islamic, and also it's simply un-humane. The Qur'an is pretty clear on those things and on the relationship between husband and wife, which is described in beautiful terms in some verses. It does not say women are lesser than men or anything to that extent, but the author of said text does. He claims to be speaking in God's name, but it's clear that he is presenting his personal opinion on many things rather than divine rules. For example he keeps stressing that household and children are the woman's prime responsibility and the most important thing for her. The text claims that the prophet's wives are a good example to follow. But there are many ahadeeth telling us that the prophet mended his own clothes, helped his wives in the household as much as he could, loved taking care of his kids etc. Now why are those not given the same importance and mentioning here? Most of us know that according to the Qur'an every human being is being judged for their own deeds and intentions and that that nobody bears responsibility for another person. Yet here we read that the husband is some kind of intermediate between woman and God, we are told that through HIM she gets to paradise or not. This is a very debatable and strange thing to say. You could have addressed this very valid point of mine and maybe explained your point of view on this issue. Instead you avoid direct conversation by insinuating there must either be something wrong with me personally or with my understanding of Islamic sources. What I was and am addressing is what I percieve as a very dishonest way of presenting things ... too many subjective things are being presented as *truth*, while in fact the choice and selection of material used to make particular points is highly subjective. It would be more beneficial if you could just address the points I made if you disagree with them, rather than trying to made snide remarks. I remember you've done that before when I explained that and why I don't accept authority for authority's sake. I don't understand what's so offensive about this, but for some reason it seems to bother you. :confused: [/qb][/QUOTE]Hi, Dalia Thank you for posting this detailed point of view. It helped me understand where you are coming from. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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