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[QUOTE]Originally posted by unfinished thought.: [QB] Did Moses "invent" Judaism? Did Muhammad "invent" Islam? Like it or don't, Christianity is about Christ. The testimony of Muhammad does not add clarity to THE testimony of Christ. Paul was an apostle called by Jesus Christ. He is a perfect example of what God can do, turn around a person one hundred and eighty degrees. He changed from being a persecuter of Christians to one of the most passionate proclaimers of the good news that ever lived. It is important that Paul is a witness of the living risen Christ, who met him (in a vision) on the Damascus road and commissioned him to be a messenger. But still, this is "not enough". Paul also meets with the leaders of the Apostles and gets their approval for his mission and message which he is going to take to the gentiles, so that all can be sure, it is the one and true Gospel that is preached by all Apostles equally. The early Church took great pains to make sure their faith was based on solid historical truth. They exposed heresy as soon as it came up from some people. All this is very clear from the records we have. The Apostle Peter says (in 2 Peter 1): [i]12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are [b]firmly established in the truth[/b] you now have. 13 I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things. 16 [b]We did not follow cleverly invented stories[/b] when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but [b]we were eyewitnesses of his majesty[/b].[/i] The Apostles took great pain to make sure that their followers are firmly established in the truth and the true teaching was repeated and rehearsed over and over again. And it is formost on his mind that the Christians KNOW that all this was not invented stories [fables] but that all of it is based on their personal eyewitness account of Jesus life [and death and resurrection]. The Apostle John writes (in 1 John 1): [i]1 That which was from the beginning, which WE have HEARD, which WE have SEEN with our eyes, which WE have LOOKED AT and our hands have TOUCHED -- this WE proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; WE have SEEN it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has APPEARED to US. 3 We proclaim to you what WE have SEEN and HEARD, ... [/i] Can we miss the emphasis John puts on the fact that they [the Apostles] have intimate first hand knowledge? "Heard, ... seen, ... touched, ..." And also the much maligned by the Muslims Apostle Paul, stresses exactly the same point (in 1 Corinthians 15): [i]1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them -- yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.[/i] If anybody would change the gospel - that would make the faith invalid, then believing would be in vain (verse 2). It is important that it is the exact gospel. And this was a gospel which Paul has not "invented himself" but he has [b]received[/b] it (verse 3) and only passed it on faithfully. And what is this gospel? Verses 3 and 4 give the summary. It is Jesus' death for our sins, and that he was raised from the dead. And not just the "event in itself" but it was of uttermost importance that these events are [b]according to the Scriptures[/b]. Why? Because that is what we have already read above. That is how God authenticates. He gives prophecy for all major acts he does. He announces them beforehand so that nobody will mistake God's acts for anything else. God announced it [in the Scriptures through the earlier prophets] and he brought it to pass. But we do not only believe it because it is predicted. Anybody can claim that something that is predicted has happened. How do we know? Because we do have many eyewitnesses who stand for this truth. Over 500 people who have witnessed the risen Christ are ready to be questioned. Most of them still alive at the time Paul writes this letter (about 55 A.D. = 25 years after the resurrection). This is an absolute solid case. At least 250 eyewitnesses are available. Some of which were not even believers in Jesus before he appeared to them [James, the brother of Jesus for example]. And, this is not just what Paul preaches, it is the exact same thing that all the other apostles also preach (verse 11). Whether you believe the meaning of the Crucifixion or not, the historical evidence for the event of the Crucifixion and the Resurrection is rock solid. And then, Muhammad comes along and just claims: It never happened. And he thinks, no explanation necessary. You just believe. And if not, if you have doubts, then you are just of those who have no knowledge (Qur'an 4:157). Historical fact is the basis of Christian faith. My impression is that Islam goes the other way around. History is defined to be what the 'sacred texts' say, no matter what the factual evidence says. My impression is that many Muslims seem to happily "just" believe it when the Qur'an says that Jesus was not crucified, that he didn't die, and that he (consequently) didn't rise from the dead. Historical evidence? Who cares! In addition, I see the problem that the Qur'an says that the disciples of Jesus were sincere and truthful [helpers of Allah and Muslims] but that they on the other hand have clearly preached the death and resurrection of Jesus for the atonement of sin. For this there is as well lots of absolutely solid evidence and on the other hand there is no evidence at all for the Qur'anic ideas about the disciples of Christ. No doubt, the central message of the first followers of Christ was his crucifixion and resurrection. How then do we judge the truth of the Qur'an? What can be valid criteria to find out whether the Qur'an is right? Where is the God-given proof for its truth? And if there is no "objective" proof (at least as strong as the historical evidence for early Christianity), then how do we know it was God? God has so far always given evidence enough to show the authentication of his messages. This is the hallmark of all Biblical revelation. Based on these observations, entrusting myself to Islam would be [b]blind[/b] faith for me. It would be faith [b]against[/b] evidence. I cannot do that. From the earlier prophets I see that God has never expected blind faith in his message. Especially since we are warned over and over again against false prophets and teachers. Why would God change his methods without warning or announcements? God is unchanging. [i]Isaiah 42: 8 "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. 9 See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you."[/i] Isaiah 48: [i]1 "Listen to this, ... 3 I foretold the former things long ago, my mouth announced them and I made them known; then suddenly I acted, and they came to pass. 4 For I knew how stubborn you were; the sinews of your neck were iron, your forehead was bronze. 5 Therefore I told you these things long ago; before they happened I announced them to you so that you could not say, `My idols did them; my wooden image and metal god ordained them.' 6 You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not admit them? "From now on I will tell you of new things, of hidden things unknown to you. 7 They are created now, and not long ago; you have not heard of them before today. So you cannot say, `Yes, I knew of them.' 14 "Come together, all of you, and listen: Which of [the idols] has foretold these things?[/i] And there are several more passages similar to this where God asks us to test him if he is not going to do what he announces. That is [b]THE[/b] proof and decisive difference between the idols and the true God. The Qur'an in the contrary seemingly expects to be believed without evidence that it is God who has given it. At least no hard evidence. Provable evidence, not something 'arbitrarily subjective' like the eloquence of the Qur'an which no non-Arabic speaker can verify for himself, and which not even native Arabs agree upon. In Islam it is claimed that the same God of the earlier prophets also spoke through Muhammad, yet he seems to not only no longer give any evidence to his prophet's claims, but even worse Islam seems to be disregarding historical facts, and demands that we believe Muhammad's pronouncements for our eternal destination even though we can't even trust it in its "earthly" statements about history. Jesus says to Nicodemus: how will you believe me if I tell you of heavenly things if you don't even believe me for earthly ones? Indeed, how can I? Not in regard to Jesus or the Bible which give us lots of facts to check and they hold up to scrutiny, but how can I believe the Qur'an and Muhammad? Ten days after the ascension, 50 days after the resurrection, Peter, the leader of the Apostles who has been with Jesus for 3 years, preaches on the crucifixion and resurrection (Acts 2). In Acts 1 it is made clear that to be an Apostle one must have been with him from the beginning and be an eyewitness of his resurrection to [b]make sure[/b] everything is based on first hand knowledge and not on imagination and hearsay. That is the basis for the election of the twelvth apostle to replace Judas the traitor. Also later, when the Apostle Paul is called by Jesus himself, it is important that Paul is a witness of the living risen Christ. Like i said, Paul also met with the leaders of the Apostles and gets their approval for his mission and message which he is going to take to the gentiles, so that all can be sure, it is the one and true Gospel that is preached by all Apostles equally. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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