posted We sent down the (Qur'an) in Truth, and in Truth has it descended: and We sent thee(Muhammed) but to give Glad Tidings and to warn (sinners).
(It is) a Qur'an which We have divided (into parts from time to time), in order that thou mightest recite it to men at intervals: We have revealed it by stages
Say: "Whether ye believe in it or not, it is true that those who were given knowledge beforehand, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration,
"And they say: 'Glory to our Lord! Truly has the promise of our Lord been fulfilled!'"
They fall down on their faces in tears, and it increases their (earnest) humility.
Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between."
Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"
Chapter 17 Al-Isra
Once upon a time Member # 13545
posted
O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from Allah. believe in him: It is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah.: those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). 173 But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or help them. O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest. Then those who believe in Allah, and hold fast to Him,- soon will He admit them to mercy and grace from Himself, and guide them to Himself by a straight way.
Chapter-4 An'nisa
Once upon a time Member # 13545
posted Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
Chapte Al-Baqra
Once upon a time Member # 13545
posted The truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt.
Al-Baqara
Ayisha Member # 4713
posted
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: The truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt.
Al-Baqara
Absolutely, not from Bukhari!
freshsoda Member # 13226
posted
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. Chapter-4 An'nisa
Jesus is the Son of God from the spiritual point of view, due to he was born of a pure virgin but with a spirit proceeding from God and not a sperm of a Man, hence you can understand that if there was no sperm therefore there was no fertilising process to a female egg which is necessary to create a human embryo and then normal human. It means Jesus was not a normal human as you might think but a unique one if you added his miracles of giving life to deads and what he said about himself, you will get another conclusion which is different to what Muhammad said in Quran about him. So Jesus is nobler than a mere man, or an ordinary prophet as Quran trying to proof in order to prepare the way to accept Muhammad as seal of prophets. Watch out the trick of Muhammad in this point. In (Luke 1:34-35). The angel told Mary “So the baby born to you will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God."
The Trinity in Quran is distinguished from mathematical unity where 1+1+1 = 3 but Trinity of Christians is 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.
In Quran Jesus is called "a Word from God and son of Mary": Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah; (Surah 3, Al-i-'Imran, verse 45)
So as we can call Jesus by the son of Mary from the human side obviously we can also call him as son of God from the spiritually side.
Matthew 7:15 " Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves "
Ayisha Member # 4713
posted
quote:Originally posted by freshsoda:
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time:
Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. Chapter-4 An'nisa
Jesus is the Son of God from the spiritual point of view, due to he was born of a pure virgin but with a spirit proceeding from God and not a sperm of a Man, hence you can understand that if there was no sperm therefore there was no fertilising process to a female egg which is necessary to create a human embryo and then normal human. It means Jesus was not a normal human as you might think but a unique one if you added his miracles of giving life to deads and what he said about himself, you will get another conclusion which is different to what Muhammad said in Quran about him. So Jesus is nobler than a mere man, or an ordinary prophet as Quran trying to proof in order to prepare the way to accept Muhammad as seal of prophets. Watch out the trick of Muhammad in this point. In (Luke 1:34-35). The angel told Mary “So the baby born to you will be holy, and he will be called the Son of God."
The Trinity in Quran is distinguished from mathematical unity where 1+1+1 = 3 but Trinity of Christians is 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.
In Quran Jesus is called "a Word from God and son of Mary": Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah; (Surah 3, Al-i-'Imran, verse 45)
So as we can call Jesus by the son of Mary from the human side obviously we can also call him as son of God from the spiritually side.
Matthew 7:15 " Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves "
Luke 3.38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Gen 6: 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Jer 31: 9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
Psalms 2.7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Lots of sons of God including 2 firstborns
freshsoda Member # 13226
posted
Ahaa, now you quote biblical verses as a proof of your idea but only when it's suit you. Ok I will also quote from the bible what Jesus said in (Matthew 11 :27) " All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." does it make sense for you? The difference between others who were called by sons of God and Jesus that Jesus is living not dead.
Ayisha Member # 4713
posted
quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: Ahaa, now you quote biblical verses as a proof of your idea but only when it's suit you. Ok I will also quote from the bible what Jesus said in (Matthew 11 :27) " All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." does it make sense for you?
which son? or have all sons of god now been put into one? Are you denying the verses I posted say that there were other 'sons of God'?
Your sperm fertilizing the egg scenario was ridiculous, God can do anything including make babies for men over sperm producing age and barran women!
freshsoda Member # 13226
posted
6 years you are in ES and active in religion forum, hundreds of time trinity and Jesus's nature were deadly discussed and you are only repeat yourself again and again. I prefer to talk with new members here who are interested to talk but talking with you is pointless as you have your own understanding that have been developed in a unique way which became not interested for me to reply and repeat myself again too.
You are acting in same way how Jews were acting during Jesus's time, read what he told them in John 10:36 Jesus said " Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Ayisha Member # 4713
posted
quote:Originally posted by freshsoda: 6 years you are in ES and active in religion forum, hundreds of time trinity and Jesus's nature were deadly discussed and you are only repeat yourself again and again. I prefer to talk with new members here who are interested to talk but talking with you is pointless as you have your own understanding that have been developed in a unique way which became not interested for me to reply and repeat myself again too.
I repeat myself because you repeat yourself. The verses say sons of God and they do not refer to Jesus. So Jesus is not the ONLY son of God is he! Not my fault if we have discussed this 100 times and you still cannot SEE this is it?
quote:You are acting in same way how Jews were acting during Jesus's time, read what he told them in John 10:36 Jesus said " Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
He is CLEARLY telling them that he is no more Gods son than THEY ARE. That he does the WORK of God, GOD works THROUGH him. He said he can do NOTHING of himself it all comes from GOD. He was Gods MESSENGER/PROPHET to lead the people. He was not GOD.
freshsoda Member # 13226
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Ok Ayisha, thanks for clearing up this to me.
ourluxor Member # 15101
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I would have hoped that sarcasm was beneath you, freshsoda?
D_Oro Member # 17954
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We are children of God through his spirit.... holy ghost, but Jesus is the only begotten son of God. Jesus was not conceived from the sperm of a man but by Gods spirit, which the Quran also says. If someone does not believe either the Bible or the Quran, what can one say?
quote:
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
quote: Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Once upon a time Member # 13545
posted 1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4 And there is none like unto Him.
Al-Ikhlas
Ayisha Member # 4713
posted
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: We are children of God through his spirit.... holy ghost, but Jesus is the only begotten son of God. Jesus was not conceived from the sperm of a man but by Gods spirit, which the Quran also says. If someone does not believe either the Bible or the Quran, what can one say?
according to psalms Jesus is not the only begotten son.
Adam was not conceived by the sperm of a man either.
D_Oro Member # 17954
posted
Adam was not conceived, he was created out of the dust of the Earth.
D_Oro Member # 17954
posted
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: 1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4 And there is none like unto Him.
Al-Ikhlas
It's ok Once upon a time. You believe that the Bible is corrupted, so there is not conflict for you.
Ayisha Member # 4713
posted
quote:Originally posted by D_Oro: Adam was not conceived, he was created out of the dust of the Earth.
so what then, he was the son of dust? Did GOD create him or not? Bible says he was the son of God and as he wasnt born of a woman either then surely he is more a son of God, or even GOD than Jesus is. How can a woman give birth to GOD?
There are many references to sons of God in the Bible, even 2 first born sons of God, so how can you claim Jesus is the ONLY one.
ourluxor Member # 15101
posted
How plain do you want it Ayisha?
Jesus was the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, conceived of Mary by the Holy Spirit of God. The Bible does not describe any other conception and birth in the same way. (Does the Quran?)
Surely we are all sons of God, as we are all sons of Abraham. But there is only one "Son" of God, and that's PLAINLY Jesus of Nazareth. It's like you being an Ayisha of Luxor, one among (possibly) thousands here, but the only one on ES.
Also, I still cannot believe that you have so much trouble with the Holy Trinity? You accept that God can do anything, yet balk at the idea that He can become Flesh born of woman. And even the Quran mentions the Holy spirit of God.
What's wrong with you woman?
If you want: I'll get you a nit comb so that you can carry on with the nitpicking! lol.
D_Oro Member # 17954
posted
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: How plain do you want it Ayisha?
Jesus was the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, conceived of Mary by the Holy Spirit of God. The Bible does not describe any other conception and birth in the same way. (Does the Quran?)
Does the Quran???
D_Oro Member # 17954
posted
From the Quran:
quote: [Ambiya 21:91] And remember the woman who maintained her chastity, We therefore breathed Our Spirit into her and made her and her son a sign for the entire world.
[Ambiya 21:92] Indeed this religion of yours, is one religion; and I am your Lord, therefore worship Me.
I'm not quite sure what is meant by "Our Spirit". Can anyone explain this?
Once upon a time Member # 13545
posted
Muslim belief. Our spirit is Angel Gabriel who came to Prophet Isa( jesus ) and propht Muhammed as well teaching him the Quran.
From My understanding, Angel Gebriel came to Prophet Jesus teaching him the Gospel.
posted
Thanks for that Once upon a time! I had thought that the Quran came directly from God, and that is why it was infallable. And who would have guessed that the Holy Spirit was anything other than the Spirit of God, as we Christians believe that only God is Holy. I'm amazed! My answer to "I'm not quite sure what is meant by "Our Spirit". Can anyone explain this?" would have been that God is using the equivalent of the royal "we" (or "Our" in this case) in reference to the Holy Spirit being the channel for God's Power and Grace to be communicated to humankind. We already know that God is ONE, so it doesn't refer to the spirit of God and His mates! But of the Holy Spirit being one facet of the Trinity, as freshsoda so brilliantly explained 1x1x1=1
kellyj994 Member # 18232
posted
quote:Originally posted by Once upon a time: Muslim belief. Our spirit is Angel Gabriel who came to Prophet Isa( jesus ) and propht Muhammed as well teaching him the Quran.
From My understanding, Angel Gebriel came to Prophet Jesus teaching him the Gospel.
posted
When an individual becomes a Christian, he acknowledges it by being baptized in the "name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"
He believes in one God - but not the unknowable, unapproachable "god" of Islam called "Allah."
Instead, he recognizes God as the infinite, invisible, omnipresent Father, but also as the Son, the visible, touchable, yet perfectly holy Word always revealing and manifesting the Father, and as the Holy Spirit, always present to guide and comfort. He is very real- eternal and invisible, omnipresent Father of all, yet visible and approachable through the Son and experienced and understood in the Holy Spirit.
vwvwv Member # 18213
posted
quote:Originally posted by ourluxor: But of the Holy Spirit being one facet of the Trinity, as freshsoda so brilliantly explained 1x1x1=1
One can also use the Sun analogy to describe the Trinity.
The Father is unbegotten, and He is the Source of the generation of the Son and thus ultimately of the Spiration of the Holy Spirit.
The Light proceeds from the Sun and the warmth proceeds from the Light.
The Sun is not the Light, nor is the Light the Sun; the Sun is not the Heat, nor is the Heat the Sun; the Light is not the Heat, nor is the Heat the Light. Yet, all three are co-dependant on oneanother and work in a harmonious relationship that brings life to the Earth.
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