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[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Explorer: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Grumman: I did. It was based on Mr. Obama saying that combat operations have ceased unless the Iraqis themselves call for U.S. assistance. It was a factual statement. I stand by that.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure how a statement contradicted by facts on the ground is "factual". Are you saying it is factual because you say Obama said something along those lines? [QUOTE] To date I see no evidence of combat operations taking place in Iraq. What I have seen and what anyone will continue to see is American deaths until they leave the country for good.[/QUOTE]On contrary, you are simply choosing to ignore evidence that debunks you. I don't know how any sane person can say combat operations are over when the Shiites are stepping up their attacks against U.S forces and killing them. [QUOTE] Iraq is a combat environnemt.[/QUOTE]...where no combat is taking place. You sure make a lot of sense, Grumman. :D [QUOTE] This also necessarily means troops have duties to perform in that combat environment. I see no evidence they are *deliberately engaging* with hostile intent. However, once they are attacked by whatever group the troops will protect themselves.[/QUOTE]Occupying a sovereign country is not "deliberately engaging with hostile intent"? And even using your logic about "protecting themselves" should be thrown out the window using your logic, because in order for them to do that, they'd have to engage in "aggressive combat operations". [QUOTE] Initially I think you presented it as deductive reasoning to dispell ''no combat operations by U.S. forces'' because Shiites were attacking U.S. forces. When a group is attacked then yes, aggressive combat operations will take place if they aren't overwhelmed by the enemy. I said this already on a couple occasions.[/QUOTE]As I said, you [i]assumed[/i] that I was presenting my sentence as definite fact, when there was no apparent cause to draw that conclusion. Clearly in the above, you are forced to contradict yourself on the issue of "aggressive combat operations taking place". It simply doesn't make sense for Shiites to step up their attacks and killings of U.S. forces, only for the latter to simply do nothing and stand around like sitting ducks. Common sense instills that they would be attacking back to discourage further attacks. This can only primarily be done through "aggressive combat operations". [QUOTE] Hypothetically, if two troops were confronted by many Iraqis and were fired upon is it logical to assume those two troops, being outnumbered and probably outgunned, would take aggressive action against superior forces?[/QUOTE]This is a highly speculative question. It doesn't make sense for "many Iraqis" to want to do damage to just 2 soldiers. You seem to also be misdirecting your attention. The info deserving more attention here, is that the U.S. "deaths" in "combat operations" during June of this year "went up". To dismiss this as a "non-combat" event, is to be seriously in denial of reality. [QUOTE] Context will be recalled as Iraqi security forces fighting Iraqis if they can handle their combat situation by themselves. If they are outgunned and outnumbered then yes the U.S. will offer assistance. If so, then yes the aggressive combat operations are truthful. Not unil then however. [/QUOTE]Again, you seem to drifting off what you are being told, and speaking of hypotheticals. The news article is informing you that American soldiers are being killed by Iraqis. That doesn't support your claim about Iraqis only fighting amongst themselves and not the occupying American soldiers. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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