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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yom: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by COTONOU_BY_NIGHT: Thanks Yom for the 'am info! Do you have an idea of what the Ancient Egyptian contemporary form Ethio-Semitic 'am would have sounded like? Is it consistent with the Egyptian '3m/Semitic 'am hypothesis?[/QUOTE]Yes, pretty perfectly, if your AE transliteration is what I think it is. The ' represents guttural `ayin, right? Or this hieroglyph: [IMG]http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_D36.png[/IMG]? If so, it would be better to use ` or ˁ or ʿ or IPA (International phonetic alphabet) ʕ. The reason is that ' is more often used to represent the glottal stop or IPA ʔ, like in Arabic /lɑːʔ/ ("no") as opposed to Arabic /nɑʕɑm/ ("yes"). Or, consider English "uh-oh." The stop in between is the glottal stop (ʔuh-ʔoh - this isn't true IPA spelling, though). The Arabic `am is IPA /ʕɑːmː/ (ː, or in Arabic script, عامّ. More accurately it could be spelled `aamm, since there's a long "a" and geminated (doubled length) m. Likewise in Ge'ez, the word is spelled ዓም, which would be IPA /ʕɑːm/. Gemination isn't marked in Ge'ez, so we can't know if the m would have been doubled, but it is not in traditional Ge'ez pronounciation. In both cases, you can see that there's a long "a" in between the pharyngeal consonant `ayin, and the letter "m," aka mim/may (mim is Arabic, may is Ge'ez, the latter meaning water, and the former having a similar meaning, being from the Hebrew/Aramaic for water[b]s[/b], as you can see from the mimation = suffixed mim, which serves as a plural in Northern Northwest Semitic languages like Canaanite, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc.). This long "a" is equivalent to the Egyptian [IMG]http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_M17.png[/IMG], which I believe is your "3." In fact, in Arabic (and many other alphabets designed for Semitic languages), the long "a" and glottal stop aren't differentiated. So, if your transliteration is what I think it is, it fits impeccably. I'm surprised I hadn't noticed that, actually. [QUOTE]Here is a French transliteration/traduction of the Tuthmosis III hymns: http://perso.orange.fr/sylvie.griffon/textes/poetique/poetique.htm The only possible mention of Puntites (don't know of which t3 ntr it is a reference to) in this text is that of the inhabitants of T3 Ntr, no mention of xbstjw in this very text, from what I've read. The exhaustive list of mentioned places/people is the following: 1-wr.w(princes)Dhy (Syria?) 2-sTt/ '3mw nw(of) rTnw 3-t3 j3bty(eastern land)/ nty.w (those who are) m (in) w.w (regions) nw (of) t3-nTr 4-tA jmnty (Western Land)/kftjw & isy 5-jmy.w (inhabitants) nb.wt (?)/mTn (Mitanni?) 6-jm.yw(inhabitants) jw.w(islands)/W3D-wr (Uadj-ur "the great green", Sea?) 7-THn.w (Tehenu)/ jw.w (islands) wTnty.w (inhabitants of wTnt "place of origin of the sun, North-East of the Sun") 8-H3.t-t3 "beginning of the country)/Hryw Sa (those who are upon the sand (Beduins?) 9-Jwnty.w (etymologically archers)/S3.t (Sai island?) Thanks for the xbstjw info too. I'll discuss it in the thread about Punt. [/QUOTE]Apparently ta-neter doesn't necessarily refer to Punt, and according to Abdel-Aziz Saleh (from the link you provided earlier), more often refers to the Levant, which would make more sense in this case. As to the xbstjw, they appear along with many other names that have been tentatively connected to placenames in Northern Ethiopia/Eritrea in his "lists of foreign peoples." I haven't been able to get access to it, though. If you can, I would very, very, very much appreciate it. I think I'll actually start a new Punt thread to be a be all and end all Punt thread to hold all the info we already have, or we can just use the one already posted, although it starts off uninformative. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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