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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] The ancient Egyptians left tons of evidence of their maritime achievements on the walls and in the sands of the monuments of the Old Kingdom. This evidence has been posted. The idea that we can only acknowledge such evidence if it fits into a pattern of Eurocentric distortion is the part that is causing the problem. The ONLY reason that the Egyptians went to the area of modern day Lebanon is because they had something that the Egyptians needed: WOOD. If other parts of the nearby African coast had a similar supply of such raw materials, I am sure they would have gone there too. But most of Northern Africa had the same environment as Egypt and it probably would not have had much in the way of the kind of timber they needed. And if it did, the fact that peoples around Lebanon were already WELL KNOWN for their lumber probably made it not necessary in the first place. The other point is that just because the lumber was found outside of Egypt does not mean the expertise to BUILD BOATS with lumber came from OUTSIDE of Egypt. The oldest WOODEN PLANK BOATS in the world are found in Egypt and there is no evidence that they were built with Lebanese help, other than the wood itself. In fact, for most of the dynastic period Lebanon was part of greater Egypt and it was only during the advent of the Sea Peoples and the Hyksos that Egypt did not have control of the region and have a large presence of Egyptians in the region. During the Old Kindom there was much military activity by the Egyptians into this area and much of this had to do with resources. From this interaction and the need of wood in the area for Egyptian maritime activity, there developed a substantial amount of maritime expertise among those populations in the region. But that expertise did not come from nowhere, it came from the years of previous interaction with the Egyptians who helped develop this maritime technology in the first place, which led to that region becoming the maritime capital of the late bronze age. The phoenecian navy is a relatively late component of Egyptian maritime activity. In the old and Middle Kingdom there WAS NO PHOENICIA to begin with and therefore if there was any maritime activity it would have been Egyptians doing it themselves or they would have had to conquer and make vassals of those who they COULD get to do the sailing for them, even though there is no evidence that this was happening in the Old or Middle Kindgdom. Yet there is evidence from the Old and Middle Kingdom of boats of all shapes and sizes and it is doubtful that the technology for such boats came from anywhere else but Egypt as no OTHER evidence for boats of such types has been found anywhere else from that period. Most of the evidence for the Phoenicians being in the service of the Egyptian pharoahs came from the late period. Necho and Necho II represent the HIEGHT of this relationship and these pharoahs are indeed in the late period of Egypt's history, around 630 B.C., during the Saite 26th dynasty. This period is LONG AFTER the great events of the Old Kingdom and Middle Kingdom and the exploits of Thutmosis III, when the pattern of maritime Egyptian activities and power were at their peak. Such comments as the following: [QUOTE] At this time, Greece was expanding her trading contacts and Necho took the opportunity to recruit displaced Ionian Greeks to form an Egyptian Navy. This was, militarily, revolutionary, for the Egyptians had an inherent distaste for and fear of the sea. While this new navy was probably not much threat to his rivals, it did lead to other benefits, such as the creation of a new African trade route. He also encouraged some Greek settlement in the Delta. [/QUOTE]From: http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/necho2.htm Are implicitly designed to promote a MYTH of Egyptian fear of the sea and the distortion of maritime history by focusing on the activities in the extremely LATE period of Egyptian history, when much of Egypt's power and glory were long gone and trying to use that to overshadow the impact that the previous 3000 years of Egyptian presence had in and around the Mediterranean. Remember, it is during THIS PERIOD, under Necho, that the Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa. There can be no doubt that had it NOT been for the patronage of Egypt at this time, such a feat would NOT have occurred. And it is also certain that such a feat was accompanied by EGYPTIAN SAILORS. But of course, the link above makes no MENTION OF THIS because that is another example of the TREMENDOUS impact Egypt had on the maritime traditions of the Mediterranean. Likewise, the reason why Egypt would have expanded trade with the African coast to the West, would have been been because of the growth of the great Carthaginian city state in the region, as a military and trade power, which was NOT THERE in the Old or New Kingdoms. So, again, things are not being put into proper context. And another example of how the REAL maritime legacy of Egypt during this time, is modern research showing that the TRIREME, the backbone of later Mediterranean navies, was possibly DEVELOPED IN EGYPT under Necho, which again makes sense. Therefore, as a RESULT of the Egyptians having a large and far flung naval force, made up of VARIOUS components, chiefly the native Egyptian Navy and the Phoenicians, the Greeks who were ushered into Egyptian naval service during this time would have acquired MUCH in the way of expertise FROM EGYPT and PHOENICIA, which would have helped them to become an Empire in later times. Lets not forget that the Phoenicians were building boats first for the Egyptians, then the Greeks, Romans and Persian navies all during this period and later. But again, because of the bias in telling the facts, this legacy is lost. Phoenician maritime legacy & Egypt: http://phoenicia.org/proutes.html Again the following comment is another good example of statements PURPOSELY designed to degenerate Egypt's technical maritime prowess: [QUOTE] The very earliest naval battle is depicted on the carved relief decoration of a Naqada II ivory knife handle that was found at Gebel al-Arak. It shows boats with high, straight prows and sterns, usually interpreted as foreign vessels. The early Nile boats used for military purposes seem to have been primarily used for the transportation of troops up and down the Nile, and indeed, Egypt's early conflicts were mostly internal control issues. We do find reliefs in the 5th Dynasty mortuary temple of King Sahure at Abusir depicting a sea-borne fleet that is said to have transported his army to Syria, and in the 6th Dynasty, the official Weni is said to have taken troops to Palestine in vessels described as nmiw (traveling ships). Keelless seagoing vessels like those during the time of King Sahure (2500 BCE) traded with the Phoenician cities, importing cedar wood, Asiatic slaves and other merchandise. They were also sent as the first Egyptian trade expedition to the Land of Punt. The bipedal mast carried a vertical sail, and the bow was decorated with an eye. It was steered by six oars and had. The bow was decorated with an eye. " I went down on the sea in a ship of one hundred and fifty cubits long and forty cubits wide, with one hundred and fifty sailors of the best of Egypt who had seen heaven and earth, and whose hearts were stronger than lions." Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor, c. 2200 BCE However, most Egyptian vessels were not suitable for sailing in the Mediterranean or the Red Sea. The idea of sea going ships was probably imported from the Levantine seaboard, and most likely from the region of Byblos. There was certainly a strong connection in the Egyptian minds between Byblos and naval activity, since the most common word for an Egyptian sea vessel was kbnt, literally meaning "Byblos-boat". Sea going boats used by both the Egyptians and their neighbors were relatively simple, consisting of a rectangular sail and usually one or two rudder oars. However, the Palermo Stone records the construction of a ship fifty two meters in length during the reign of king Sneferu of the 3rd Dynasty, and in the 5th Dynasty tomb of Ti at Saqqara, boat builders are depicted at work on another very large vessel. [/QUOTE]From: http://touregypt.net/featurestories/navy.htm Comments like the foreign boats had masts or the Egtyptians identified Lebanon with naval expertise are BOTH indicative of the sort of distortion that keeps the Egyptian naval impact on the Mediterranean in it's proper context. The boats on the Gebel Arak Knife were probably LOCAL as inscriptions of boats of that type were also found elsewhere around Egypt. The reason the region around modern Lebanon was associated with maritime activities is because that is where the WOOD came from, not necessarily the technical expertise or know how to BUILD the boats. Again, the influence on the Maritime traditions in the Mediterranean went FROM EGYPT TO the mediterranean as a legacy of the Egyptian presence in and around modern Lebanon as one of their early maritime conquests and probably even an early Egyptian naval outpost. It makes sense that if the Egyptians wanted to build a presence on the ocean, as they had no local supply of wood to create such a Navy, they would have had to go where the wood was plentiful. This is backed up by the images and reliefs from the Old Kindom depicting Egyptan naval activities in the region, again, most likelly reflecting the Egyptians need to secure those wood supplies and a naval presence. And no society that buried boats in special graves and featured them so prominently in their art can be CLAIMED to be scared of the sea. That is pure and absolute nonsense. In fact almost every inscription about Egyptian sea men boast of them being BRAVE AS LIONS, which does not reflect people who were SCARED of going out to sea. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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