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[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Explorer: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Chimu: [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Explorer: The Sandawe have enough melanin to survive in the environment they live in, and their complexion is what one would call "dark complexioned"; essentially what we also call "black".[/QUOTE]Wrong. They were always described as lighter. Don't confuse the Tehla Sandawe with the Bisa.[/QUOTE]According to what scale are they described as anything but "dark complexion". What? [QUOTE] [QUOTE] In the 1950s they were classified as coloured by the Apartheid authorities.[/QUOTE] http://www.come2capetown.com/thecity/people_language/Khoi_San.asp [/QUOTE]What legal document from the Apartheid State said Khoisans, who are not mixed with non-African groups, are anything but in the same camp as "black Africans"? Your link doesn't provide this. [QUOTE] [QUOTE]Chief Little believes the event is a signal for all those of Khoisan descent to reclaim their identity. "She's brought to the fore that we need to be proud of our identity instead of hiding behind the classification of 'coloured' which was given to us by the racist apartheid regime," he added. [/QUOTE] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1971103.stm [/QUOTE]Yes, Khoisans mixed with non-African groups may have been given leeway to identify as "coloreds", but you have shown no evidence that Khoisans were not grouped with "black Africans". I've already cited a piece that suggests otherwise. [QUOTE] [QUOTE]So, is this your way of saying that the San in Botswana are darker in skin tone than those in South Africa?[/QUOTE]Yes, they are. Botswana (Kalahari - Central Bushmen, Yellow Bushmen at Lone Tree, Central San, Yellow Bushmen at Takashwani, Central San, Yellow Bushmen at Ghanzi, Central San) 42.4 South Africa (Warmbath - Hottentot) 43.75 South Africa (Namaqualand, Hottentot) 46.8 South Africa (Cape - Cape Coloureds) 50.96[/QUOTE]This scale doesn't even make sense; what is it suppose to relay; that the higher the score, the lighter? What is the source? [QUOTE] [QUOTE]What was the allele, found in the Bisa Sandawe by whom, and associated with what skin complexion [that is to say, with "dark" or "light" according to the study]? Your opinionating that the Bisa Sandawe are "lighter" in no way changes the fact of the study that you are citing above about dark skin alleles in Africans and Melanesians, nor does your *personal* characterization of the Sandawe as "lighter" make them not to be "dark" complexioned folks, that is to say, "black". [/QUOTE]Lighter than a tanned Japanese woman. Not Black.[/QUOTE]You realize that you evaded what you cited above, don't you? [QUOTE] [QUOTE]And indeed, they'd have to have ancestral alleles, because after all, that is what's keeping them "dark complexioned". In the meantime,... [i]The [b]lightly pigmented[/b] hunter-gatherer San populations of Southern Africa is exceptional in having a [b]high frequency[/b] of the [b]derived allele[/b] relative to geographically proximate and more darkly pigmented African populations (Jablonski and Chaplin 2000), further supporting the importance of OCA2 in regulating normal variation in pigmentation. The widespread distribution of the derived allele in the CEPH-Diversity Panel suggests that it is not necessarily a new mutation, nor has it been restricted to a specific geographic area.[/i] - Norton et al. Note that while it is said that the allele in question is suggestive of not being a new one, it is recognized as being in the "derived" state. [/QUOTE]Feel free to show that Jablonski shws any evidence, other than hypothesis. that they have a derived state. I know what Jablonski believes. I am only interested in what she has proven though.[/QUOTE]You can't read; the study you are looking at, was from actual geneticists. It's their word. Nobody said anything about Jablonski. [QUOTE] [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Explorer: This fellow has a different take... [i]Coloreds: Mixed-race descendants of Africans, Asians, and Europeans, coloreds compose two distinct communities: the Malays (mostly Moslem, descended from Indonesian slaves), and the [b]Griquas[/b], whose origins are from [b]Khoikhoi and white **unions**[/b]. The Coloreds speak Afrikaans and, to a lesser extent, English. They are concentrated in the three Cape provinces. Since the official beginning of apartheid in 1948, they have tended to identify socially with Blacks more and more[/i] - Obi O. Akwani, [i]IMDiversity.com[/i][/QUOTE]Yes the Griquas are mixed.[/QUOTE]Exactly, so why did you pass off the term as though it were some kind of a category in which **all** Khoisans were generally placed? [QUOTE] But the pure KhoiSan were also classified as coloured.[/QUOTE]If the Khoisans were also classified as "coloreds", then why would they need the term "Griquas" for the other "coloreds" also of Khoisan descent; why? [QUOTE] [QUOTE][i]Modern South Africa is composed of many peoples who, as a [b]result of the country's history[/b], fall into [b]four main race-based categories[/b]: indigenous [1*][b]Africans or Blacks[/b], [2*]Europeans or Whites, [3*]Asians or Indians, and [4*]Coloreds. The [b]African majority[/b] consists of three main cultural groups: the [b]Khoikhoi, the San or Khoisan people of the Cape region and the Bantus.[/b][/i][/QUOTE]Yes there were two African groups. The Colored and the Blacks or Bantus.[/QUOTE]Not according to what you are reading. What official Apartheid document can you present that suggests what you are replying to is wrong? What Apartheid state or even contemporary south African state documents can you produce that suggests that they was/are 5 as opposed to the 4 "racial" categories mentioned. And if you are saying that Khoisans were grouped in the African category, well then, that was only one category of that kind. There was no "two African" categories; if you have official south African state documents stating otherwise, then produce them for us. [QUOTE] [QUOTE]Chimu, do you have evidence that Apartheid South Africa, and henceforth, modern South Africa's "racial" or ethnic categories are different from what is being stated above? [/QUOTE]Read above.[/QUOTE]I have, I was the one who posted it, and it contradicts everything you've said; how do you intend to prove otherwise? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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