posted
Most of the time when one see a movie or a graphic picture of an African Worrior he is always accompanied by his trusty spear.So much so that they even acquired the nick name spear trukers. but a quick glance into any of the old African civilizations reveils a wide variety of weapons that is down right intimedating.below is a link to the various weapons found in many different African sociaties.Please tour and enjoy.
posted
No big deal. But it's "spear chuckers". I am sure your Japanese is 100%--a language I will never have the time to learn.
You are right, African metallurgy is impreesive. I once an exhibition titled "Art of the Congo"--and it was high quality, especially the metal work. The Musee de l'homme in Paris also keeps a large collection of looted African items--gold, iron, etc, thatare of high quality.
Cheikh Anta Diop once said it: colonialism destroyed a large portion of Africa's technological infrastructure.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
Ooops I did it again,Really iam a bad typist.And my spelling is equally bad.and my Japanese is only about 75%,But did you checkout the throwing knives? no getting around that with out full body armour plus shield.Btw The use of the horse in the forest zone...why?
Whatbox Member # 10819
posted
^Are you talking about in the Mali piece? [horse]
and...
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
No Not the Mali horsemen they lived mostly in the savannah so maneuvoring horses wouldn't be a problem. yes I am thinking about the Benin horseman,and others like them.Plus the dreaded tsetse fly,I thought they plague the forest zone.
But my main question has to do military effectiveness,Plus they must be relatively expensive.
Horus- Member # 11484
posted
Yes...curious about the Yoruba horsemen...when did Yorubas start riding horses, was that something we picked up from the north (Hausas/Fulanis)??
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
Hi Horus, hisasiburi!!,you know the area right? does a tsetse fly problem exist in the forest zone area or not. and just how thick is the forest area now?
Horus- Member # 11484
posted
Yes, long time indeed! I was busy attending to the wife.
Yeah, tes-tse fly is a problem. It causes a sleeping-sickness if I remember. Not good for students trying to stay awake in class.
I don't understand your last question.
astenb Member # 14524
posted
I have been writing a story that involves the use of one of the Mangbetu knives. I have visited that site but they are always sold out.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
well I can understand trying to make a whole lotta little Horuses and Asets.
ok the last question,is the area where the Yorubas tend to live heavily forested.
Astenb, really you gonna publish soon?give us a hint murder mystery, set in ancient or modern times, when you done I want my auto-graph copy
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
Since sports is sometimes related to fighting I will add this,Nigerian form of boxing called Dambe and Kemitic sports scene,here in the Kemetic scene you have everything from boxing to what looks like hockey lol nothing new under the sun,also I remember Bernal stating that pygmies had something to with boxing and relating them to the God Bes.
Also, no one yet has mentioned African infantrymen. I know Mai Idris Alooma secured arms to bolster him military presence and the Asante also used rifle power in many of their raids. Funny though is that history tells us that arms weren't necessarily the most effective means of warfare in Africa (namely west). The Yoruba-Dahomey conflict was a classic case of cavalry vs. infantry, where the cavalry (Yoruba) prevailed, establishing the transition to Oyo hegemony over them for more than a century. Strategy is key. As mentioned above though, I'd like to read more primary source information on the life and campaigns of Mai Idris Alooma, possibly the greatest military tactician in African history and certainly West African. I continuously read references to Ibn Fartuwa, but have never been able to find any of his writings.
Horus- Member # 11484
posted
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I want my auto-graph copy
Haha! you've been to the Paradise.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Most of the time when one see a movie or a graphic picture of an African Worrior he is always accompanied by his trusty spear.So much so that they even acquired the nick name spear trukers. but a quick glance into any of the old African civilizations reveils a wide variety of weapons that is down right intimedating.below is a link to the various weapons found in many different African sociaties.Please tour and enjoy.
Yes unfortunately this silly ignorance of African "spear chuckers" exists even though not only did Africans wield a wide array and variety of weapons-- many of which were metal of course since Africans were the earliest metallurgists-- but they forget that the spear was a weapon common to many peoples outside of Africa including Europe!
But getting to the subject of Egypt since the ancient Egyptians were also Africans...
Egyptian spearmen
Egyptian khopesh (sickle sword)
Binja sickle sword from Zaire
^ Sickles swords were basically weapons adapted from agricultural tools.
^ Yes the Egyptians performed ceremony war-dances just before battle just like many other Africans!
By the way, here are more African antique weapons.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
Sundjata,thanks for the movie never saw it before, they got some really sick moves,one has to be in good shape to keep up,slackers need not apply.
while one can find scholarly works on African warfare, they are usually dry,deadpan and some downright boring, atleast for a layman like myself.One of the better books I have read was Amazons of Black Sparta about the Dahomean military,focusing on the female units.
Believe it or not and please don't slap me, but i first became aware of Mai Idris Alooma because of the Budweiser Great Kings and Queens of Africa poster art series i saw posted on the walls of a Barber shop in Brooklyn as a teenager.
DJehuti that Binja sword looks a lot like the Kemities Sickle sword I am thinking deffusion??? and also when did swords came into general use? Bernal seems to think they made their apperence sometime in the middle kingdom. I will do additional checking to make sure.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
Ok I found somethng that confirms Bernal's statement that the sword made it's way into kemet during the M.K. but it was not a African invention as I had thought.This was taken form Wiki.Here goes:
The Khopesh
Khopesh (ḫpš) is the Egyptian name of the Canaanite "sickle-sword" (actually more like a type of axe). Its origins can be traced back to third millennium BC Sumer.
Description A typical khopesh is 50-60cm in length (though smaller examples also exist) and is composed of three main parts: the hilt, a straight and unsharpened section of blade finishing in a curved crescent shape with the sharpened edge. The khopesh evolved from the epsilon or similar crescent shaped axes that were used in warfare. This makes the khopesh not a true sword (which evolved from daggers), but a specialized battle-axe. However, unlike an axe, the khopesh did not make push-cuts, but rather slashes. The khopesh went out of use around 1300BC.
Use The khopesh was initially used against the Egyptians in war, but as the kingdom of Egypt improved trade relations with other kingdoms, eventually it adopted the khopesh. It seemed to have been most popular during the New Kingdom under the united Egypt.[citation needed] Various pharaohs are depicted with a khopesh, and some have been found in royal graves, such as the two examples found with Tutankhamun.
Although some examples are clearly sharpened, many examples have dull edges which apparently were never intended to be sharp. It may therefore be possible that some khopeshes found in high status graves were ceremonial variants.
Later the Khopesh was slowly developed into what is known as the Falcata. This variant was adopted by Alexander the Great for its effectiveness.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
^ The khopesh may be Asian in origin but that doesn't mean the sickle sword in general is not an African innovation as such type weapons are widespread in Africa.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
up
Confirming Truth Member # 17678
posted
Dude, how do any of those primitive weapons match up to the gun?
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Most of the time when one see a movie or a graphic picture of an African Worrior he is always accompanied by his trusty spear.So much so that they even acquired the nick name spear trukers. but a quick glance into any of the old African civilizations reveils a wide variety of weapons that is down right intimedating.below is a link to the various weapons found in many different African sociaties.Please tour and enjoy.
posted
^They don't. It sure is more efficient than the bow and arrow.
Guns have an interesting early history. The first gunpowder weapon, a canon i think, was used in around 900s India i think and the first gun powder proportions written down were by Arabs. The Chinese made a lot of early use of gun powder with rockets even (they had flame throwers, canons, all sorts of stuff) and as far as we know they had discovered the stuff in the 800s.
But this is an African thread. Africa saw gun use too but inventions wise all there is is the first gun ever made a millennium earlier -- it wasn't gunpowder though, it was air-pressure and from Alexandria.
Like the Chinese, i read somewhere the Yoruba discovered gun powder on their own too. I don't doubt it, people have been into messing with and altering the state of rock / earthly materials with fire since we got here.
Confirming Truth Member # 17678
posted
^So then what the hell are you comparing African weapons to find worthy praise for it? It is pointless to praise weaponry that could not even match up to the weapons used by an invading threat from outside Africa. This is just another pointless 'build up my self-esteem' African pride nonsense thread.
The Explorer Member # 14778
posted
Good thread, Brada. We could use more of it.
Whatbox Member # 10819
posted
The point of the thread is obviously informational.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: This is just another pointless 'build up my self-esteem' African pride nonsense thread.
Your words not anyone elses.
quote:So then what the hell are you comparing African weapons to find worthy praise for it? It is pointless to praise weaponry that could not even match up to the weapons used by an invading threat from outside Africa.
They couldn't match up to the gun once the gun had developed to a certain point, but they still in cases put up a hell of a fight.
This thread is informational though. Why are you riling yourself up just to get mad?
You MAD!! ha
lol
quote:Originally posted by lamin: No big deal.
Whatbox Member # 10819
posted
^^^^^^Speaking of guns though, not to interrupt the flow, but do any Africans at all yet manufacture their own guns? Do they even not yet manufacture the cheaper ones?
South Africa does dun't'it?
Edit:
Nevermind, Ethiopia locally produces, as does South Africa, as does Sudan's MIC, as does Nigeria have a mass produced OBJ-006 -- the Nigerian Kalash (AK47).
The Explorer Member # 14778
posted
Found something on old Moroccan guns, courtesy of Goantiques.com...
Description: 17th. century Moroccan ivory pistol-dagger with delicate and intricate ivory carved decorations with a floral design. Silver trigger and muzzle cover with incised decorations and coral and turquoise decorations. By withdrawing the handle, the pistol becomes a dagger used for close combat. This unique pistol-dagger is a masterwork of Moroccan sword-smith art probably used for a royal presentation!.
Size: length: 21" (66 cm.).
Blade's length: 17" (53.5 cm.). This pistol-dagger is a museum art piece and unique!!
Provenance: Dr. Veleanu's collection, the author of the collectors' textbook: "Antique swords and daggers".
Country: Morocco
Title: 17th. century Moroccan ivory dagger-pistol with coral and turquoise decorations
Materials: Ivory, turquoise, coral
Description: 18th.-19th. century Moroccan silver flintlock pistol decorated with turquoise and carnelian stones. This pistol was created by a team of master craftsmen artists for a royal or a chieftain use. The entire surface is covered in solid silver hand chiseled with intricate floral design typical for the Islamic art. The trigger, matchlock and the muzzle are made from iron and have slight rust on the surface. Several turquoise and carnelian semi-precious stones are inlaid in the silver body and the handle of the pistol. This is an exquisite, rare antique art object from Morocco.
Length: 18.5" (48 cm.).
Year: Circa 1780
Today several countries on the continent manufacture modern weapons, but these are generally license-built examples in many cases.
Apocalypse Member # 8587
posted
Don't know the specific name for the lance/spear that the Hausa Calvalry is brandishing but it looks like it can inflict a nasty wound.
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
^ Up! By the way, I can't help but notice that Confirmed-Idiot is just mad becuz his "spear chucker" myth has been exploded. Also, it wasn't like gun technology was invented by his European brethren to begin with.
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
Well Confirmed like what was said by posters above these weapons kept invaders at bay for thousands of yrs or at-least gave them cause for pause. The King of the Ethiopians advises the King of the Persians to bring overwhelming odds to attack the long-lived Ethiopians when the Persians can draw a bow of this length as easily as I do; but until then, to thank the gods who do not incite the sons of the Ethiopians to add other land to their own.'"
What happened next was well!! disaster and these were called the pupil smiters nearly 2000yrs later defending their lands from Arabs for another 700yrs so yes the there is a lot to celebrate the same can be said of the reason why one celebrate the Samurai swords of the Japanese and the cross bows of the Turks. make use of the links for the weapons are works of art in of themselves.
Btw Aegis missiles only exist at a certain point in time just like the development of the gun.
kenndo Member # 4846
posted
quote:Originally posted by Whatbox: ^^^^^^Speaking of guns though, not to interrupt the flow, but do any Africans at all yet manufacture their own guns? Do they even not yet manufacture the cheaper ones?
South Africa does dun't'it?
Edit:
Nevermind, Ethiopia locally produces, as does South Africa, as does Sudan's MIC, as does Nigeria have a mass produced OBJ-006 -- the Nigerian Kalash (AK47).
ghana does. i know west africa and some kingdoms and empires made guns before the europeans came in the late 1800's,but for more update guns,yes,nigeria,south africa,ghana and some others do make more modern guns.
Ekiti-Parapo Member # 6729
posted
quote:Originally posted by Whatbox: as does Nigeria have a mass produced OBJ-006 -- the Nigerian Kalash (AK47).
posted 
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I was busy attending to the wife. 
