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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by unfinished thought.: [qb] "Therefore, outside of Roman influence THEY WERE NOT CIVILIZED." Some European tribes arrived in Europe much later, so it is logical they were less civilized. The Greeks and the Romans had already established themselves in Europe. Also you have to take into account other factors such as climate and geography. The Greek lived in a Mediterrain climate. Winters were mild and wet, and they were able to grow grapes and olives. Summers were warm and dry. Grapes and olives were one of the few plants that could survive draoughts. Northern European cultures were required to overcome harsh climate. Much of northern Europe was an ice sheet and the rest of Europe extremely cold. [/qb][/QUOTE]But you aren't making a point. Rome COLONIZED Europe and when Rome fell MOST of Europe reverted to their pre roman ways. Being colonized by Rome does not make them the SAME as the Romans or sharing Romes ancient heritage. After the Romans left many were HAPPY to see them go. Rome was an EMPIRE it was not a place were Gemanics and barbaric people were considered human. The Gauls were perennial ENEMIES of Rome going back to 100BC. They were not "Western" as "Western" has no meaning here. They did not share a common worldview culture or identity. They did not glorify Greece and Rome. After the Germanic invasions many of the ruling families that arose were of GERMANIC stock across Europe, including Britain. [QUOTE] The House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was formerly the Royal House of several European monarchies, and branches currently reign in Belgium through the descendants of Leopold I, and in the United Kingdom through the descendants of Prince Albert. Due to anti-German sentiment in the United Kingdom during World War I, George V changed the name from Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to Windsor in 1917. The House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha is a line of the Saxon House of Wettin. [/QUOTE]From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha This Germanic heritage is as important as any in the definition of modern Europe but Germanic history is NOT ROMAN and GREEK history. The TRUE history of Great Britain [QUOTE] The Saxons (Latin: Saxones) were a confederation of Old Germanic tribes. Their modern-day descendants in Lower Saxony and Westphalia and other German states are considered ethnic Germans (the State of Sachsen is not inhabited by ethnic Saxons; the state of Sachsen-Anhalt only in its northwestern parts); those in the eastern Netherlands are considered to be ethnic Dutch; those in north eastern Belgium are considered to be ethnic Flemish; those in northern France are considered to be ethnic French; and those in Southern England ethnic English (see Anglo-Saxons). Their earliest known area of settlement is Northern Albingia, an area approximately that of modern Holstein. Saxons participated in the Germanic settlement of Britain during and after the 5th century. It is unknown how many migrated from the continent to Britain though estimates for the total number of Germanic settlers vary between 10,000 and 200,000.[1] Since the 18th century, many continental Saxons have settled other parts of the world, especially in North America, Australia, South Africa, and in areas of the former Soviet Union, where some communities still maintain parts of their cultural and linguistic heritage, often under the umbrella categories "German", "Flemish", and "Dutch". Because of international Hanseatic trading routes and contingent migration during the Middle Ages, Saxons mixed with and had strong influences upon the languages and cultures of the Scandinavian and Baltic peoples, and also upon the Polabian Slavs and Pomeranian West Slavic peoples. First mentioned by the Ancient Greek geographer Ptolemy, the pre-Christian settlement of the Saxon people originally covered an area a little more to the northwest, with parts of the southern Jutland Peninsula, Old Saxony and small sections of the eastern Low Countries (Belgium and the Netherlands). During the 5th century AD, the Saxons were part of the people invading the Romano-British province of Britannia. One of the other tribes was the Germanic Angles, whose name, taken together with that of the Saxons led to the formation of the modern term, Anglo-Saxons. [/QUOTE]From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons That is not ROME or "WESTERN" history. And these Germanic tribes came from THE EAST, so what does "Western" have to do with it. And any idiot who doesn't see the importance of the Germanic people to modern Western European history needs to have their head examined. Charlemagne was a Germanic king. Most of Western Europe is about the spread of Germanic peoples and cultures over the last 1500 years, not the spread of "Western" thought. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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