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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: [QB] Two on-going threads prompted me to open this topic. one a conversation with Osirion and two Altakruri thread on the creamy colored Libyans. Khart Haddast or Carthage was said to be founded at about 814 B.C by Phoenician colonizers..under a legendary Queen Dido. but what do we know of both civilizations in terms of culture and ethnic origins. were the people biologicially Africans...Eur-Asians..A combination of the two?..and was that reflected in the culture as well?...the simplistic question of simply were they black or white will not do..first a look at the founding fathers of the Carthaginians..the Phoenicians who were they really? From the very begining as any good Sunday school student knows..the Canaanites the original name of the people was the son of Ham brother of Misriem brother of Kush. Making Canaan the only one of Ham's sons to fall out-side Africa...But wait!! Altakruri will sure to protest giving up any inch of that strip of land on geological grounds for sure on cultural grounds maybe. Lets see what some random cut and paste said on the matter..shall we?? Canaan (Phoenician: , Kana'n, Hebrew: כנען kna-an, Arabic: كنعان Kanaʿān) is an ancient term for a region encompassing modern-day Israel and Lebanon, the Palestinian Territories, plus adjoining coastal lands and parts of Jordan, Syria and northeastern Egypt. In the Hebrew Bible, the "Land of Canaan" extends from Lebanon southward across Gaza to the "Brook of Egypt" and eastward to the Jordan River Valley, thus including modern Israel and the Palestinian Territories. In far ancient times, the southern area included various ethnic groups. The Amarna Letters found in Ancient Egypt mention Canaan (Akkadian: Kinaḫḫu) in connection with Gaza and other cities along the Phoenician coast and into Upper Galilee. Many earlier Egyptian sources also make mention of numerous military campaigns conducted in Ka-na-na, just inside Asia. Various Canaanite sites have been excavated by archaeologists. Canaanites spoke Canaanite languages, closely related to other West Semitic languages. Canaanites are mentioned in the Bible, Mesopotamian and Ancient Egyptian texts. Although the residents of ancient Ugarit in modern Syria do not seem to have considered themselves Canaanite, and did not speak a Canaanite language (but one that was closely related, the Ugaritic language), archaeologists have considered the site, which was rediscovered in 1928, as quintessentially Canaanite.[1] Much of the modern knowledge about the Canaanites stems from excavation in this area. Canaanite culture apparently developed in situ from the Circum-Arabian Nomadic Pastoral Complex, which in turn developed from a fusion of Harifian hunter gatherers with Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) farming cultures, practicing animal domestication, during the 6,200 BC climatic crisis.[2] Wiki. A non Bibicial View. Archaeologists argue that the Phoenicians are simply the descendants of coastal-dwelling Canaanites, who over the centuries developed a particular seagoing culture and skills.[citation needed] Other suggestions are that Phoenician culture must have been inspired from external sources (Egypt, North Africa etc.), that the Phoenicians were sea-traders from the Land of Punt who co-opted the Canaanite population;[citation needed] or that they were connected with the Minoans,[citation needed] or the Sea Peoples or the Philistines further south;[citation needed] or even that they represent the maritime activities of the coastal Israelite tribes like Dan,[citation needed] who from the Song of Deborah in Judges, are listed as being "amongst their ships. What they may have looked liked: [IMG]http://www.geocities.com/joao_marri/phoenician.jpg[/IMG] [URL=http://www.africaresource.com/.../]www.africaresource.com/.../[/URL] An example of a 19th century view is that of John Denison Baldwin who thought that the ancient Phoenicians were of Cushite or Hamite origin. Speaking of their stupendous architectural remains, he wrote:- The Cushite origin of these cities is so plain that those most influenced by the strange monomania which transforms the Phoenicians into Semites now admit that the Cushites were the civilizers of Phoenicia. “Prehistoric Nations” pg 145. TV journalist Gerhard Herm asserts that, because the Phoenicians' legendary sailing abilities are not well attested before the invasions of the Sea Peoples around 1200 BC, that these Sea Peoples would have merged with the local population to produce the Phoenicians, whom he says gained these abilities rather suddenly at that time. There is also archaeological evidence that the Philistines, often thought of as related to the Sea Peoples, were culturally linked to Mycenaean Greeks, who were also known to be great sailors even in this period. The question of the Phoenicians' origin persists. Archaeologists have pursued the origin of the Phoenicians for generations, basing their analyses on excavated sites, the remains of material culture, contemporary texts set into contemporary contexts, as well as linguistics. In some cases, the debate is characterized by modern cultural agendas. Ultimately, the origins of the Phoenicians are still unclear: where they came from and just when (or if) they arrived, and under what circumstances, are all still energetically disputed. [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Antarados_sarkophagus_face.JPG/200px-Antarados_sarkophagus_face.JPG[/IMG] en.wikibooks.org/.../Phoenicians [IMG]http://carlos.emory.edu/files/egypt_14_2.jpg[/IMG] [URL=http://www.carlos.emory.edu/inlay-in-the-form-of-a-w...]www.carlos.emory.edu/inlay-in-the-form-of-a-w...[/URL] Remove frame Now I am trying to get Images of the Pheonicians before they left or who stayed behind...I'll try for Carthaginian Pics when the time come if any mistake I made please correct me. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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