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Breaking! Fake scholar Clyde Winters gets academically smashed!
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] I quoted Green et al about the 75% African heritage of the Mexicans. Salsassin has not destroyed this evidence he attempts to dismiss this quote by claiming it was made by an "activist" this is a stupid statement since Green et al are citing the figure they co-sign. I made a response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRBpNzk3gUw Here I quote Lisker who acknowledges that 40% of the Mexicans have African ancestry, 40-75% is the result of the slave trade. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/faces2.jpg[/IMG] This is why many contemporary Mexicans look like the Olmecs. It is clear that you have not looked at my rebuttal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRBpNzk3gUw In it I discuss the fact that I have a Masters Degree in Social Science from the University of Illinois-Urbana, with minors in Linguistics and Anthropology. Also I note that I taught linguistics at Saint Xavier University in Chicago for three years before I took my present position. I also noted the many presentations I have made at international and national anthropological meetings including AAA. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/aaa991.GIF[/IMG] [IMG]http://olmec98.net/aaa992.GIF[/IMG] You need to check out my film. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRBpNzk3gUw Why don't you ask Salsassin to post his qualifications. He won't because he dosen't have any. But he is a beautiful liar, and good artist. . [/qb][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [ [b] You can't read. I cited Lisker et al 1996 and Green et al 2000 which discussed African- Mexican admixture. . [/qb][/QUOTE]I notice that my discussion of Underhill and Seistadt was ignored. Again, neither of these support your contention because you quote tendentiously. R.Lisker, E. Ramirez, and V. Babinsky. 1996. “Genetic Structure of Autochtonous populations of Mesoamerica:Mexico,” [i]Human Biology[/i] 68 (#3): 395-404. 1. You argue that the populations studied on the east coast of Mexico come from the area of the Olmec development, i.e. Tabasco. However only one, Paraiso, comes from Tabasco. El Carmen is from Campeche and Saladero, Veracruz and Tamiahua are from Veracruz neither is an ancestral Olmec area. But, the east coast of Mexico had a high proportion of African slaves. 2. These six [B]mestizo[/b] populations also had a high white percentage , often higher than the black percentage, which only demonstrates that the intermixing took place in colonial times and after rather than in pre-colonial times. Here are all the results from Table 2 of Lisker rather than the selective listing of black percentages. black indian white Paraiso 0.217 0.474 0.309 El Carmen 0.284 0.432 0.284 Veracruz 0.256 0.394 0.350 Saladero 0.302 0.386 0.312 Tamiahua 0.405 0.307 0.288 3. When Lisker looks at "Indian" populations, which would be a truer test of African admixture we find mostly [b]zero[/b] African genes except two cases, which still have a higher percentage of "white." black indian white Huichol 0.00 0.912 0.088 Totonaco 0.00 0.854 0.146 Chontal 0.05 0.783 0.167 Chol 0.00 0.778 0.222 Zapoteco 0.00 0.741 0.259 Huasteco 0.00 0.627 0.373 Cora 0.008 0.792 0.200 All that Lisker shows is that interbreeding tok place between Africans, Spanish and Indians after the conquest of Mexico. It absolutely does NOT support a supposed Mande presence in pre-Columbian Mexico You quote Green as if the statement had been made in a refereed publication but, in fact, the "statistic" comes from an unrefereed Afrocentric publication, which is the source you should really cite, Lance D. Green, James N. Derr, and Alec Knight. 2000 "mtDNA Affinities of the Peoples of North-Central," [b]American Journal of Human Genetics[/b] 66:989-998, [QUOTE] "Today, the number of Mexicans with African heritage is not known; however, some suggest that as much as 75% of the modern Mexican population has some African ancestry (Muhammad 1995). Estimation of African contribution to the genetic heritage of Mexico may now be accomplished through identification of population of origin by use of diagnostic, discrete character, molecular genetic markers. Such analyses will ultimately provide a more accurate understanding of Mexican history and culture." [/QUOTE]The supposed 75 percent comes from: Muhammad JS (1995) "Mexico and Central America". In: ] Minority Rights Group (ed) [b]No longer invisible: Afro-Latin Americans today[/b]. Minority Rights Publications, London, pp 163-180. Every statement you make has to be checked for accuracy with the original source. . [/QB][/QUOTE]Additional information. I did not have Muhammad's book at hand, but Salsassin found out that Muhammad, in fact had not done any original research but quoted Miriam Jimenez. However, as Salsassin points out, Miriam Jimenez says that she never has and never would have made a claim of 75% African ancestry for Mexicans. I mentioned Winters' claim of 75% African ancestry for Mexican to my wife, who burst out laughing. Anyone who known anything about Mexico knows that the claim is preposterous on its face. This incident also shows that Clyde has no idea about the rules for academic citation. You must always go to the original citation to judge the accuracy of a claim (in this case Miriam Jimenez). But then, what would one expect from an untenured instructor who is totally unreliable in quoting and citing as I have repeatedly shown. As I have also posted before, presentations at meetings are NOT "peer reviewed" and standards are quite lax. My students used to present at the Central States meeting of the American Anthropological Association papers that were "not ready for prime time" to get experience presenting and to get critiques to improve their data. Presentations are not taken seriously until they get published in refereed journals-- particularly when the author is unknown in the discipline. I have organized symposiums and presented frequently at national meetings of the AAA as well as the AAAS, and I know what I'm talking about. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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