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Can anybody prove that Egypt and Sudan was the same country centuries ago under the name Egypt?
What does the name Sudan mean and where does it come from ?
I know that the 25th family were from Sudan ,but I ask was Mena(I do not know the spelling of his name in English but he is the man who united upper and lower Egypt 3200 BC) from Sudan too ?
How do we know that Upper Egypt in Ancient Egypt is the same as Upper Egypt In Egypt today ?
I mean there are no political maps for Ancient Egypt ,right?
I am starting to doubt the ancient Egyptian history written by the European colonists to cut Egypt away from its true history !
Can I find some help ?
Kalonji Member # 17303
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1.The first cataract was the traditional boundary in ancient times 2.Sudan is Arabic and means land of the blacks 3.Narmer was more likely than not an upper Egyptian 4.It isn't, See point 1 5.There are ancient literary sources that describe boundaries 6.Why? And what do you suspect is Egypts true history?
Rahala Member # 16703
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When I look at Khufu's statute or the sphinx I simply see a Sudanese guy
viola75 Member # 17981
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the sudanese were called thinites , and the first few dynastys were thinites. i think not 100% though
Kalonji Member # 17303
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quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:Originally posted by Kalonji:
Yes, Khufu's portrayals definitely don't preclude him from blending in with his contemporary or modern Sudanese kinfolk.
Look at the proximity of Naqada to the other African populations
Rahala Member # 16703
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quote:Originally posted by viola75: the sudanese were called thinites , and the first few dynastys were thinites. i think not 100% though
how ?
The word "thinites " refer to something in lower Egypt how could this be related to Sudan ?
ausar Member # 1797
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Rahala, there is no concrete way to determine if modern Sudan and modern Egypt were in the same geographical borders in antiquity. Most of what is agreed up by Egyptologist is nothing more than educated speculation. Archaeological information seems to indicate that the earliest defined capitals in southern Egypt was around modern day Abydos. The evidence seems to indicate that Mena comes from around Abydos.
Rahala Member # 16703
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^I mean there are pharaonic monuments in Sudan too .
I am sure that modern Sudan was not part of Ancient Egypt but at least the northern part of it is .
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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^^^ Egypt's Cultural Influence was based on the Culture that began in the Nile Valley. The fact that "Pharonic" Monuments are in "Sudan" does not mean the Lands were one Entity nor does it indicate flowering from Egypt to Sudan. What is proves is that the culture of Km.t and The Southern Kingdoms were constantly influencing anf rivaling each other.
Sudan is an Arabic Term and has nothing to do with Ancient Egypt, as Arabs had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.
Rahala Member # 16703
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^So you are saying that there were 2 separate civilizations in the NILE valley ?!
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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No. Im saying that there were different Kingdoms and Cultures and Tribes that sprung up along the Nile, However influence was VIA the Nile and were under the Same Umbrella of Cultural Influence hence the Term..Nile Valley or Nilotic Civilization.
Seperate means they rose from different entities, but that is not the case, the Culture of Egypt, Nubia, and Ethiopia sprung from One Source the Nile. If you look How Christianity and Islam Spread mostly through the Nile.
Egypt, Sudan, Kush, Kerma, Yam,..NILE Valley Civilization. Not Mediteranian, not North African..but Nile Valley..
You get it??
Rahala Member # 16703
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^I got what you mean but not convinced with it .
I do not see in Ethiopia a great civilization nor in the Sudan such as the one in Ancient Egypt ,and According to your logic civilization should have been started in Ethiopia then flowed to Egypt with the Nile ,but this isn't true since Islam and Christianity flowed in the other direction from Egypt to Ethiopia and it has been like that all over the whole history except the one you say .
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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^^^ Well for one no where did I say Christianity or "Islam" flowed from the South. Christianity was born in Judea it only makes sense the it would reach Egypt first.
And reguarding Islam, the Prophet of Islam sent Muslims to Ethiopia for protection not Egypt and the Muslims captured Egypt first due to its stratigic position. That is why Muslims went to Egypt first.
Second as I said Earlier "Ethiopia" was a great civilization their monumental structures go well before anything was built in Egypt. We have the sites at Nabta Playa, the Deffufa's in the Kerma area etc. Did you know the Rock Hewn(Abu Simbel) style Temples came from Nubia, did you know many of the Egyptian Royals had Nubians and that Nubians always had a legitimate claim to the Throne of Egypt.
Why do you think the Great Builder Ramses went out of his way to build a Temple at Abu Simbel Instead of the Levant or in Egypt. He did it to Impress the Nubians, not the Asiatics, not the Europeans or Arabs but the Nubians.
By comparison Rome was a far greater Empire in terms of Power than Greece, but was Greece less important or less great.
Nubia, Egypt and Ethiopia are Sister civlizations.
the lioness Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Why do you think the Great Builder Ramses went out of his way to build a Temple at Abu Simbel Instead of the Levant or in Egypt. He did it to Impress the Nubians, not the Asiatics, not the Europeans or Arabs but the Nubians.
Ramses impressing upon Nubian rebellion, 200 year militarily defeated colony of Egypt
Beit el-Wali
and military campaigns against Libya
Just call me Jari Member # 14451
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Why do you think the Great Builder Ramses went out of his way to build a Temple at Abu Simbel Instead of the Levant or in Egypt. He did it to Impress the Nubians, not the Asiatics, not the Europeans or Arabs but the Nubians.
Ramses impressing upon Nubian rebellion, 200 year militarily defeated colony of Egypt
Beit el-Wali
and military campaigns against Libya
This Pathetic rant has no bearing on the fact that Ramses went out of his way to impress the Nubians with a Temple Style they invented and even dedicated originally to the Nubian version of Horus.
The Greeks were a defeated satrap of Rome but the Romans still wrote in Latin and Greek, worshipped Latinized Greek Gods, worshipped in Greek Derived temples, and built to out do the Greeks.
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