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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sundjata: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by rahotep101: @Sundjata If you showed an image of a Roman smiting a gaul, (if there were such images) you would be hard-pressed to spot a difference in phenotype.[/QUOTE]To the contrary, Kalonji just recently posted a great piece directly [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=004138;p=3]demonstrating this double standard[/URL], noting that some of the skin tone and phenotypic variation in ancient Macedonia is even wider ranging than that seen between most Egyptian and so-called "Nubian" portraiture/art. [QUOTE] It's funny how historical evidence gets dismissed as picture spam when it doesn't support your fictitious view of the past.[/QUOTE]I simply do not engage in picture spam. It is a silly and childish game of eye-ball anthropology that can never play as substitute for more reliable data, such as language, culture, and biology. Those who rely on art work I've come to realize are weak in regards to synthesizing hard data so they try to lower everyone's standards to the subjective realm of 3,000 year old art. I can easily post images that support what I'm saying while dismissing yours and insisting that yours support mine all along anyways. It is all subjective, unscientific and distracting. [QUOTE] By insisting certain phrases are 'debunked' or defunct you just seem to be denying the obvious, and hiding behind the political correct vagueness of the prevailing scientific establishment.[/QUOTE]PC is the antithesis of racist expression, no? Is the free expression of racist ideology that one believes in wholeheartedly not the extreme of what you're suggesting is an extreme leftist approach from anthropology circles? So if you attribute one extreme to one camp why is it not clear that you don't belong to the opposing camp? Anyone can throw around ad hominem attacks, especially when they're too lazy to address the actual evidence on the ground, right? That the no race arguments make the best sense is of no consequence, right? :rolleyes: [QUOTE] You believe in race when it suits you, i.e. when you want to construct the idea of a single 'African' race. Why are 'Elongated African features' (Hamitic) only found in the parts of Africa that face Eurasia?[/QUOTE]Such features are found everywhere and even within the same family and among isolated peoples who have never had contact with Eurasians. Such people are also some of the darkest people on earth and have elongated limb proportions. A case of admixture among these groups would seem to have had an effect of more than just a few cranio-facial features that are so coveted by the race theorists. [QUOTE] If it was an indigenous adaptation why isn't it found among Nigerians? [/QUOTE]It is. Even if it wasn't, how is the environment of Nigeria similar to the Horn or Nile Valley? [QUOTE]I think there's mileage in the Hamitic hypothesis yet. [/QUOTE]Yet you're alone in a sea of doubt. No one stands with you. You were left behind with Seligman. [QUOTE]All this is aside from the point of Egyptians looking the same now as they did in Dynastic times, and by their own artwork clearly distinct from negroid nehesu.[/QUOTE]Some nehesu were not depicted as distinct from Egyptians as shown to you and in some cases some Egyptians depicted themselves similarly to what you deem is standard "nehesu". Your use of the term "Negroid" is a ridiculous red herring. [QUOTE] Images such as that from Horemhab's tomb are stereotypes, of course, even charicatures, but they weren't arrived at arbitrarily.[/QUOTE]Of course not. Some people south of Egypt approached that resemblance, some looked different. Africa is very diverse. Always has been. [QUOTE]Nubians in Egyptian art were usually shown as bound captives,[/QUOTE]This is indeed false, there are images of nehesu mercenaries and members of the royal family. nehesu seemed to be a generic term describing people to the south of Egypt and relations with the various peoples there were different. For instance, during the 17th dynasty Egyptians were being helped by the Medjay in their expulsion of the Asiatic Hyksos while at the same time, other Medjay, along with Kushites were raiding settlements in upper Egypt. [QUOTE] sometimes awaiting excution, or as enemies in battle being scattered in a disorderly mass, or as tribute paying subjects (rather than gift-be [QUOTE]aring royals as you fondly imagine). Egyptianized Nubians like Kemist and Maiherpri were exceptiona.[/QUOTE]See above. Also, there is no evidence that Kemsit or Maiherpri were non-Egyptian (or born outside of Egypt). Whatever this is based on, it is not textual evidence. [QUOTE]Indeed Egyptians used Nubian mercenaries, sometimes against other Nubians. Later, of course, Nubians used Egyptian mercenaries, again against other Nubians![/QUOTE]Mercenaries were also used against Asiatics, as noted. Asiatics were never used against "Nehesu". [QUOTE]By the way Egyptians used black Sudanese mercenaries well into medieval times. The European crusaders they came up against recognized the blacks as something different from the Egyptians, for the Egyptians were lumped together with 'Saracens'. [/QUOTE]This has nothing to do with ancient Egypt. [QUOTE]The ultimate source of the Egyptian language and religion is also irrelevant to the question of continuity since dynastic times. If Egyptians are indeed of horn African stock, however, you've got to wonder how it can be that no comparably advanced civilization of at least equal antiquity is found in the south. [/QUOTE]This is an argument from genetic determinism that has nothing to do with how archaeologists view state formation, which has more to do with sedentism, availability of resources, and social stability, which all in some way relate to geography (in this case, the Nile). Africa is dynamic and Egyptian civilization saw the right conditions to sprout at the right time. Dumb question logically as well, it's like me asking if Greeks came from Anatolia, then why wasn't there a comparable civilization at that time in Anatolia. This question is a non-sequitur. [QUOTE] Where are Somalia's pyramids or hieroglyphics? One thing's for sure, Somalis don't descend from actual Ancient Egyptians. Only modern Egyptians can make such a claim. [/QUOTE]See above. I guess [b]Pyramid[/b] building is in some people's DNA. :rolleyes: What an amateur. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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