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Who was the Angel of the Lord that killed 185,000 Assyrians in 701 B.C.E
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalonji: [QB] [QUOTE]Because Moses lived and spent nearly all of his life in Egypt, [b]where he met her.[/b] You'd have to be the one to actually [b]show that her and her people were NOT Cushites from Egypt,[/b] hence, show that her and her family migrated to Egypt from somewhere else (other than Sudan of course).[/QUOTE]I think you misunderstand the story. It is never said that he met her in Egypt I suggest you read the relevant portions of the bible and contrast what your source, I believe Josephus, says with other material, in particular, available material about her people; the Midianites. [QUOTE][b]Back when?[/b] Granted you say you don't buy into the biblical chronology, to address the point still it must be emphasized that none of this is literal nor are these events dated with any chronological accuracy.[/QUOTE]The bible posits the kingdom of Nimrod [i]prior to[/i] the confusion of languages, and the subsequent exodus of all mentioned sons of Noah. The bible also says that the people after the flood settled Mesopotamia from the West, which directly undermines any Kassite migration. You'd have to ignore the bible to make it work, but then, if you're going to that, you're already doubting its accuracy, which makes any attempts by that same author to correlate it with historical events questionable, and inconsistent per that earlier commitment to question that text. That would be like hanging your coat (historical event) to what you perceive to be a crippled hatstand (the myth) [QUOTE]I find Goldenberg's explanation perfectly reasonable, as in the minds of the Hebrews, or anyone else for that matter, Kassu sounds very similar to Kushi.[/QUOTE]How do any of the Kashites kings fit the characteristics of Nimrod? Do they fit the hunter archetype, survivor of a flood, rebellion to the sender of the flood, builder of Sumerian cities etc etc like the indigenous Sumerian hero Gilgamesh, and other Mesopotamian characters do? Nimrod was a widely known mythological character, and his existence as such, or at least his characteristics, that also made it into the bible, precedes the Kassite invasion, and is supported independently from the bible. Another point that I'd like to make, is that it is not unthinkable that the Kassites themselves didn't apply that name to themselves because they viewed themselves as blacks, which is corroborated by Josephus, who says the various Cushite groups also called themselves Cushites. Having said that, every available line of evidence, other than name similarity (which isn't even evidence) suggest these folks are different, and as I've alluded to earlier; the Kassite explanation is more likely a remnant of racist thinking that intended to keep blacks out of the ''civilized'' centers of Southwest Asia. [QUOTE][b]I actually wasn't sure if you weren't confusing this historiography with creation myths and modern anthropology to argue for an actual presence of blacks in Mesopotamia[/b] (otherwise, I wouldn't understand your reasoning for invoking anthropology).[/QUOTE]I’m not sure what you mean here, but yes, I do see a strong correlation between skeletal analysis of various peoples and the peoples that were described as Cushites and Aethiopians per Hebrews/Arabs/Assyrians and Greeks respectively. While I agree with what you said earlier when you paraphrased Keita, the correlation still stands. [QUOTE]I cannot confirm what you have or have not read but certainly I've [b]never read that Mesopotamian Kush and Nubia Kush ever described the same entity or genealogy.[/b][/QUOTE]For biblical evidence that says they had the same common ancestor, look no further than that Goldenberg quote you posted, where he quotes a passage of the bible that says Cush begot Nimrod. It is also [b]directly[/b] implied by the fact that the Hebrews saw Noah as the most recent common ancestor of all people; there was no other Cushite patriarch to be talking about separate lineages. The various people who were deemed Cushite in the bible should therefore be seen as people who were imagined to be descendants of this Cushite patriarch. This is also confirmed by later Arab writers who, equipped with a more extensive ethnographic writings compared to the ancient Hebrews, lumped various Indian and Arabian peoples together as descendants of Cush because of their physical characteristics. In fact, Josephus does this as well. [i]'Time has not at all hurt the name of Cush; for the Ethiopians, over whom he reigned, are even at this day, both by themselves and by all men in Asia, called Cushites.'[/i] [QUOTE]What you propose is tricky, especially when trying to untangle what "the Hebrews thought" from a creation myth. Reading into this that the Hebrews thought the Mesopotamians were Black for example, has no support for it.[/QUOTE]If you say it has no support, you'd have to explain why the biblical application of Cush to peoples matches Greek ascriptions of Aethiopians to various peoples, Asian and African. You'd also have to explain why the Greeks translated the Hebrew Cush with ''Aethiopian'', if such a proposal is so unsupported. You'd also have to explain why Arab writers continued to ascribe the term ''Cush'' to peoples that were known to be dark skinned. When I said ''what the Hebrews thought'', I was specifically referring to our earlier discussion, regarding whether there is an African primacy whenever Cush is mentioned, and contrasting that part of the discussion with your subsequent invocation of Goldenbergs and others correlation of Nimrod with Kassites. The two discussions are inherently different, the former allows both parties to keep in mind that they are simply discussing how the Hebrews conceptualized things, and doesn't see their writings as right or wrong. Invocation of the latter inevitably leads to the exact opposite. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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