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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] ^ Ignoring the castrated one above... [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dahoslips 101: [qb] Concerning the original Berbers... The rest are hardly represented by your cherrypicked sample, which in most cases probably demonstrates the result of relatively recent admixture with sub-saharans. Clearly Caucasian Berbers are found in the High Atlas Mountains of Morocco, who are quite far to the south as well as from the coast. Caucasian Tuaregs are found ranging as close to central Africa as Mali! [/qb][/QUOTE]Are you daft??! I'm beginning to think you are! Most of your so-called "caucasian" Berbers are people who look what would be called 'Mulattoes' and only a few groups display true 'whiteness' with blonde or red hair. The rest who live away from the coasts are all black. You speak of "recent sub-saharan" admixture, yet you never bothered with my response which states the Sahara did not even exist during the Holocene or that most of these lineages date to that time period! While it is the Euasian lineages that are recent!! Are you aware that the predominant Y lineage among Berbers is E1b1b which is said to have entered North Africa during the mesolithic from Sub-Sahara? Even among some Berber like the Tuareg there exists older PN2 lineages like E2. What do you call this?? Are you aware that the oldest remains of North Africans like the so-called [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=003435]Mechta and Afalou[/URL] types all possess "negroid" affinities? And then you have this depiction by Romans of non-Phoenician indigenous peoples of Carthage (Tunisia). ... [QUOTE][qb]Originally posted by Ish Gebor: [/qb] "[i]We conclude that the origins and maternal diversity of Berber populations are old and complex, and these communities bear genetic characteristics resulting from various events of gene flow with surrounding and migrating populations.[/i]" "[i]The Berber tribes were far removed from each other and this was one reason why Morocco was often invaded[/i]"..... http://www.marokko-info.nl/english/history-of-morocco Traveling spirit masters: Moroccan Gnawa trance and music in the global marketplace. By Deborah Anne Kapchan Wesleyan University Press, 2007, page 19. "[i][b]not all of the black african population are gnawa[/b][/i]." Frigi et al. [i][b]Our results reveal that Berber speakers have a foundational biogeographic root in Africa and that deep African lineages have continued to evolve in supra- Saharan Africa.[/b][/i] [/QUOTE]So all this begs the question, which group is truly indigenous to Africa and which are more recent? Black people or whites?? It is an easy and simple answer to those with well functioning brains barred the castrated minds. [/qb][/QUOTE]I'd say, the Berber gene E-M81 is a descendant from the Northeast African parent clade E-M78, E-M78 is a descendant from the East African parent clade E-M35. *Many East Africans have so-called caucasian features. As was stated prior by the sources, Northwestern Berbers carry admixture due to many invasions. Whereas the Berbers from the Siwa carry the least admixture. Which on its turn show a supra- Saharan evolution. A history of the Maghrib in the Islamic period By Jamil M. Abun-Nasr Cambridge University Press, 1987 - page 5. ..."it is important to bear in mind that over the centuries the Maghreb has been a melting-pot of many other ethnic groups and cultures" "Frigi et al.(2010) suggest these possibilities as factors in their consideration of the asymmetric assimilation of females of non-African origin into Berber-speaking populations whose males currently have a predominance of lineages defined by the African M35/81 biallelic marker. Quote; whose males currently have a predominance of lineages defined by the African M35/81 biallelic marker. Predominance of lineages defined by "the African M35/81 biallelic marker." It is interesting that these “non-African”mtDNA lineages are usually predominant while being diverse (Coudray et al. 2009; Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2004; Khodjet-el-Khil et al. 2008). To claim Berbers as europeans/ whites is just another crazy claim. [IMG]http://a7.idata.over-blog.com/300x225/3/92/16/69/2/3/804-germaine-jakson-nabila-marhaben.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.mirc.ma/wp-content/gallery/nabila_marhaben/nabilamarhaben_320.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://bakareweate.com/imagebank/morocco/images/nadia.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://tinyurl.com/348yjjj[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.supersenna.com/files/images/projects/18-1214941512.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://f.imagehost.org/0879/09-03-06_07_33_10.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://tinyurl.com/2vhy84a[/IMG] [IMG]http://spitsnet.nl/uploaded/CCI/03-01-06%231%23DS%23%230301_marokko1.tif%231.jpg[/IMG] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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